Except large numbers of over 40s are doing precisely that. They want No Deal and they don't care what the costs are economically or to the peace of Ireland.
More over 65’s but then they don’t realize or care about NI
Looks like it could end up a choice between Clarke and Boris as PM and whether the LDs hold the balance of power and back Clarke or it is a Tory majority with Boris and Corbyn out of it on those numbers
What has happened to a nailed on Boris majority you have predicted for so long, even PM Farage
Nothing is ever nailed on but on the latest Yougov it would be a Boris majority and on the latest Survation and Opinium Tories at least largest party.
If Boris extended again though and we are still in the EU at the time of the next general election I think only Farage could stop Corbyn as the Tories would fall back behind the Brexit Party
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
If the average solicitor earns 43k and the average price of a house in the UK is around 230k, what does it say about how f***ed up our housing market is when a solicitor would struggle to afford an average house? (230k - 23k deposit would require a salary of 46k for a mortgage at 4.5 * income)
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
I think “more powerful than us” is overstating things, but it’s probably true within the rather crucial context we are discussing.
Britain is savagely weakened by leaving the EU. It becomes a trade taker rather than a trade (rule) maker. It takes a poorer path, too, with the commensurate loss of influence that implies. Finally there is the literally existential threat posed by Celtic independence.
A reasonable Brexit outcome sees Britain (or England) falling to down the table - closer to an Italy. Still a player, but largely ignored on the big issues.
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
whats the problem ?
we are the 21st ranked country worldwide by population in 2019. By end of the centrury well be about number 50 as African and Asian countries overtake us. Nobody will be much interested in our values or indeed Europes. Theres a new global order on the make and its time we adapted ourselves to it.
Population is not power, or Indonesia would be a heavyweight and Israel an irrelevance.
It;s no guarantee, but most of Europe will be tottering about on its Zimmerframes by 2050 and the population will drop off noticeably by 2100 that's not exactly a recipe for power projection,
If the UN is correct there will be over 200 million Ugandans by 2100. Maybe its time to rethink our relations with them.
Even by 2100 I expect the UK (or even just England), France and Germany to be still in the G20 even if Nigeria and Uganda join them, the UK and French populations are also still growing even if less fast than Africa, it is the likes of Italy, Germany and Japan and Russia seeing population decline
who can say ? But as @rcs1000 rightly points out demographics will have a huge impact. Older people consume less so european GDP will slack off.
Same for Japan but GDP per capita will still be high and the big 3 European economies will still likely be in the G20 even if not the G7 (albeit the G7 may be renamed as it is basically a western club anyway now, the G20 actually reflects real economic power)
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
We will see what the Shetland by election shows but I expect the Tory vote to largely hold steady, the LD vote to be up and the Labour vote to be down.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
If the average solicitor earns 43k and the average price of a house in the UK is around 230k, what does it say about how f***ed up our housing market is when a solicitor would struggle to afford an average house? (230k - 23k deposit would require a salary of 46k for a mortgage at 4.5 * income)
Outside London and the South East I expect they could and in London the average city lawyer earns £50k+ anyway and the average partner hundreds of thousands or even millions a year
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
The sheer scale of irresponsible ignorance on this site re: the Irish border and the Troubles is terrifying. I had to re-read the posts of Thompson & Briskin earlier, as I assumed they were spoofs.
The grim truth is they were not: these guys are seemingly for real.
Always best to continue an argument onto the next thread I find.
So we surrendered to the IRA.
Bang on about the GFA all you want. Varardkar certainly does.
And just cancel Brexit while you're at it.
*SHRUG*
We didn't surrender to the IRA. What we put to the IRA had been on the table since the mid-1970s, "Sunningdale for Slow Learners". It took a hell of a lot for them to move to that position and that is all now at risk.
With Adams swanning about where he pleases it certainly felt like a surrender to me.
Many in the Republican community would say the same about Paisley and any number of British soldiers.
So??? I'm all up for starting it up again. It's the diehard remainers that are being all namby-pamby
I'll fill out your form to join the Parachute Regiment now, shall I? You being all up for starting it up again...
Not the backdrop that most governing parties would be looking for for an election.
Five Star will likely collapse from first to third and Lega rise from third to first with PD holding second if Conte's resignation leads to an autumn general election with Salvini PM supported by Berlusconi with Forza Italia currently in opposition
These lines that Cummings is feeding the Borisgraph are rather strange and contradictory. This morning they were headlining that Boris was going to 'push' for talks with the EU by tearing up the backstop. How does that work?
Looks like it could end up a choice between Clarke and Boris as PM and whether the LDs hold the balance of power and back Clarke or it is a Tory majority with Boris and Corbyn out of it on those numbers
If the average solicitor earns 43k and the average price of a house in the UK is around 230k, what does it say about how f***ed up our housing market is when a solicitor would struggle to afford an average house? (230k - 23k deposit would require a salary of 46k for a mortgage at 4.5 * income)
Testify.
I was very fortunate to get on to the housing ladder back in 2000 thanks to my parents and grandmother.
It set up my financial security for life, to think I was nervous about getting a mortgage aged 21.
Not the backdrop that most governing parties would be looking for for an election.
Five Star will likely collapse from first to third and Lega rise from third to first with PD holding second if Conte's resignation leads to an autumn general election with Salvini PM supported by Berlusconi with Forza Italia currently in opposition
A proper fascist government in prospect then.
More the Brexit Party in Government propped up by the Boris Tories in UK terms
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Still playing with sub-samples. People have been banned for that.
If the average solicitor earns 43k and the average price of a house in the UK is around 230k, what does it say about how f***ed up our housing market is when a solicitor would struggle to afford an average house? (230k - 23k deposit would require a salary of 46k for a mortgage at 4.5 * income)
Testify.
I was very fortunate to get on to the housing ladder back in 2000 thanks to my parents and grandmother.
It set up my financial security for life, to think I was nervous about getting a mortgage aged 21.
The greatest achievement of the Cameron years was the Osborne inheritance tax cut raising the threshold to £1 million and expanding shared ownership
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
You think that doesn't happen to solicitors? Seriously?
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
You see. You'll find isolated pockets of niche European cultures in the most unlikely places.
thats the rich variety we all love. No need to standarise it, The rise of Europe was mostly due to competiton between its states and cities.
It's almost as if a set of agreements to allow cross-border trade, tariff removal, and freedom of movement for workers would be a good idea to facilitate such competition. Maybe we could call it the Economic Area in Europe, a kind of, um, "Common Market" you might say.
Not the backdrop that most governing parties would be looking for for an election.
Five Star will likely collapse from first to third and Lega rise from third to first with PD holding second if Conte's resignation leads to an autumn general election with Salvini PM supported by Berlusconi with Forza Italia currently in opposition
A proper fascist government in prospect then.
More the Brexit Party in Government propped up by the Boris Tories in UK terms
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Still playing with sub-samples. People have been banned for that.
If data is there it is there to be used and it is absurd to dismiss it especially as you only get full Scotland only Westminster polls about once every couple of months at best and the subsample data is consistent that the Boris led Tories are on 20%+ in Scotland regardless of pollster
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britom a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll anit just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
You see. You'll find isolated pockets of niche European cultures in the most unlikely places.
thats the rich variety we all love. No need to standarise it, The rise of Europe was mostly due to competiton between its states and cities.
It's almost as if a set of agreements to allow cross-border trade, tariff removal, and freedom of movement for workers would be a good idea to facilitate such competition. Maybe we could call it the Economic Area in Europe, a kind of, um, "Common Market" you might say.
No problem with that, I just dont need the overbearing bureaucracy, push for standardisation of everything, removal of local powers and the common army.
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
You think that doesn't happen to solicitors? Seriously?
Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes I do think that happens to solicitors, just not as often nor as strictly.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
We will see what the Shetland by election shows but I expect the Tory vote to largely hold steady, the LD vote to be up and the Labour vote to be down.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
"Hold steady" at 3.7%? 405 votes? You expect the LD's to be up on the 67.4 %? Mmmm. We'll see.
The sheer scale of irresponsible ignorance on this site re: the Irish border and the Troubles is terrifying. I had to re-read the posts of Thompson & Briskin earlier, as I assumed they were spoofs.
The grim truth is they were not: these guys are seemingly for real.
Always best to continue an argument onto the next thread I find.
So we surrendered to the IRA.
Bang on about the GFA all you want. Varardkar certainly does.
And just cancel Brexit while you're at it.
*SHRUG*
We didn't surrender to the IRA. What we put to the IRA had been on the table since the mid-1970s, "Sunningdale for Slow Learners". It took a hell of a lot for them to move to that position and that is all now at risk.
With Adams swanning about where he pleases it certainly felt like a surrender to me.
Many in the Republican community would say the same about Paisley and any number of British soldiers.
So??? I'm all up for starting it up again. It's the diehard remainers that are being all namby-pamby
I'll fill out your form to join the Parachute Regiment now, shall I? You being all up for starting it up again...
Ignore him he’s either a troll or a spotty teenager who hasn’t got a clue about the past and like to leap out from behind a bush and shout ‘got you’
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Still playing with sub-samples. People have been banned for that.
If data is there it is there to be used and it is absurd to dismiss it especially as you only get full Scotland only Westminster polls about once every couple of months at best and the subsample data is consistent that the Boris led Tories are on 20%+ in Scotland regardless of pollster
The most pertinent observation was that losing only half the Scottish Tory seats is “far from dire”.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Still playing with sub-samples. People have been banned for that.
If data is there it is there to be used and it is absurd to dismiss it especially as you only get full Scotland only Westminster polls about once every couple of months at best and the subsample data is consistent that the Boris led Tories are on 20%+ in Scotland regardless of pollster
The most pertinent observation was that losing only half the Scottish Tory seats is “far from dire”.
It certainly is not, 6 to 8 Tory MPs in Scotland is still great compared to 0 in 1997 and only 1 from 2001 to 2017
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
I'm not normally one to defend train drivers, but although their job might be easy most of the time, it also takes a specific type of person to be good at it. People willing to spend long periods alone, doing very monotonous tasks, but also able to be fully focussed at all times in case something does happen are rare. The recruitment process has to be rigorous because of all the ORR regulation and RSSB guidance, so not many candidates reach the required standards.
With DOO they also have to deal with up to 1000 annoyed / injured passengers until the response team arrives if anything does go wrong. Plus there's the risk of hitting people at level crossings, or hitting trespassers or suicides. It's always seemed like it would be a nice job for 99.99% of the time, but that remaining 0.01% could be horrendous.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
We will see what the Shetland by election shows but I expect the Tory vote to largely hold steady, the LD vote to be up and the Labour vote to be down.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
"Hold steady" at 3.7%? 405 votes? You expect the LD's to be up on the 67.4 %? Mmmm. We'll see.
That by election will reflect the effort the SNP have put in and the electorates view of the candidates. LD down SNP up but not enough to take the seat independents to out perform the rest.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
We will see what the Shetland by election shows but I expect the Tory vote to largely hold steady, the LD vote to be up and the Labour vote to be down.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
"Hold steady" at 3.7%? 405 votes? You expect the LD's to be up on the 67.4 %? Mmmm. We'll see.
I do and Slab to be 4th behind the LDs, SNP and Tories compared to 3rd last time
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Those are sub samples you are quoting right?
So what, all the sub samples show the same thing, Boris is polling better in Scotland than any Tory leader did from 1997 to 2017 even if not quite as well as May in 2017 or Major in 1992
Sub samples are usually very inaccurate, and the baseline is with 2017.
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
We will see what the Shetland by election shows but I expect the Tory vote to largely hold steady, the LD vote to be up and the Labour vote to be down.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
"Hold steady" at 3.7%? 405 votes? You expect the LD's to be up on the 67.4 %? Mmmm. We'll see.
I do and Slab to be 4th behind the LDs, SNP and Tories compared to 3rd last time
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
I'm not normally one to defend train drivers, but although their job might be easy most of the time, it also takes a specific type of person to be good at it. People willing to spend long periods alone, doing very monotonous tasks, but also able to be fully focussed at all times in case something does happen are rare. The recruitment process has to be rigorous because of all the ORR regulation and RSSB guidance, so not many candidates reach the required standards.
With DOO they also have to deal with up to 1000 annoyed / injured passengers until the response team arrives if anything does go wrong. Plus there's the risk of hitting people at level crossings, or hitting trespassers or suicides. It's always seemed like it would be a nice job for 99.99% of the time, but that remaining 0.01% could be horrendous.
Someone will be along shortly to suggest I somehow hanker after Empire. I don’t. I merely note that a (relatively) weaker Britain means a (relatively) stronger Russia, and relatively stronger German/French leadership of the EU - neither of us which is particularly appetising to me from a small c, liberal perspective.
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
You see. You'll find isolated pockets of niche European cultures in the most unlikely places.
thats the rich variety we all love. No need to standarise it, The rise of Europe was mostly due to competiton between its states and cities.
It's almost as if a set of agreements to allow cross-border trade, tariff removal, and freedom of movement for workers would be a good idea to facilitate such competition. Maybe we could call it the Economic Area in Europe, a kind of, um, "Common Market" you might say.
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
I'll call Gove many things, but he isn't upper class.
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
This attitude betrays a sense of British exceptionalism. How does the idea that Britain is a bulwark of liberalism on the European continent stack up against the experience of the last three years?
What's wrong with British exceptionalism?
All countries are exceptional.
We must all be standardised European zeks.
It's ironic that someone who claims to love Europe cant accept its variety.
A federal Europe will not threaten the variety of Europe. Do you feel like a standardised British zek because you're a UK citizen?
why would I ? Ive grown up in a culture 300 years on the roll and speak the same language as my compatriots. If there is to be such a thing as a european culture t it needs time to develop and to mature at its own pace, Forcing it just causes trouble.
Festina lente
European culture already is. It's you that lacks the imagination to conceive of it as anything other than homogenisation.
really. perhaps youd like to go on the streets of Barnsley or Bautzen and explain that.
You think the average person from Barnsley feels much cultural affinity with your fellow Orangemen?
You see. You'll find isolated pockets of niche European cultures in the most unlikely places.
thats the rich variety we all love. No need to standarise it, The rise of Europe was mostly due to competiton between its states and cities.
It's almost as if a set of agreements to allow cross-border trade, tariff removal, and freedom of movement for workers would be a good idea to facilitate such competition. Maybe we could call it the Economic Area in Europe, a kind of, um, "Common Market" you might say.
What a shame it went so far beyond that
As I believe I pointed out immediately after the referendum, I would have been perfectly content with your EFTA/EEA option. But we are ruled by the Conservative Party and, well, here we are...
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
Tristam Hunts ?
Indeed
I’ve met Tristram and he is a decent guy. I wouldn’t call him a chinless wonder, he was a decent historian and by all accounts is an excellent administrator of the V&A - even if his parliamentary career was a bit blah.
Yes I know his father was a Lord, but it was a political appointment not an aristocratic one.
Please can we not have yet more of this statement that 'current Scottish polling has the Tory position north of the border looking dire' as it is not correct, the latest Yougov poll has the Tories on 23% in Scotland in a clear second place and Opinium and Survation also have the Tories on 20%+. Given the Tories only got 15% in Scotland as recently as 2015 when they won a majority of UK seats and would hold around half their Scottish seats on current polling I would suggest that is far from dire for team Davidson.
Scottish Labour however is polling under 20% on every poll (SLab got 24% even in 2015 and 27% in 2017) and in the odd poll has even fallen behind the Scottish LDs and would lose every Labour seat in Scotland bar Edinburgh South on current polls.
So whiile it would be correct to say the situation is dire for Scottish Labour it is far from dire for the Scottish Tories
Still playing with sub-samples. People have been banned for that.
If data is there it is there to be used and it is absurd to dismiss it especially as you only get full Scotland only Westminster polls about once every couple of months at best and the subsample data is consistent that the Boris led Tories are on 20%+ in Scotland regardless of pollster
The most pertinent observation was that losing only half the Scottish Tory seats is “far from dire”.
It certainly is not, 6 to 8 Tory MPs in Scotland is still great compared to 0 in 1997 and only 1 from 2001 to 2017
And it's excellent compared to the Late Triassic, when support for the Conservatives was stubbornly stuck at around 0%.
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
Is Michael Gove an English political elite? Someone should tell him.
I think he had his Scottishness surgically removed some years ago. He identifies as an English upper-class twat and after literally minutes of practice, he can seamlessly blend in with even the most chinless of inbred [redacteds]
Tristam Hunts ?
Indeed
I wouldn’t call him a chinless wonder, he was a decent historian
He really wasn't. For example, he was unaware that his political idol Joseph Chamberlain defected to the Conservatives and actually finished his career as their acting leader.
Although the most amusing thing he did was cross a picket line to deliver a lecture on Marxism and working class solidarity.
His education policy was also vacuous and inept. All he could muster against Gove were bland and meaningless clichés, because he didn't know what he was talking about and couldn't be bothered to find out.
The most comically inept party leader in UK history More vacuous than Iain Duncan Smith, more self-righteous than Tim Farron, more wooden than Theresa May.
And a Bollox to stopping No Deal to boot, how must Davey feel losing to her
The most comically inept party leader in UK history More vacuous than Iain Duncan Smith, more self-righteous than Tim Farron, more wooden than Theresa May.
And a Bollox to stopping No Deal to boot, how must Davey feel losing to her
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
The most comically inept party leader in UK history More vacuous than Iain Duncan Smith, more self-righteous than Tim Farron, more wooden than Theresa May.
And a Bollox to stopping No Deal to boot, how must Davey feel losing to her
Well that’s an informed intervention from a balanced poster who has an inbuilt vitriolic hatred for anything that is not labour, over to the weather forecast for a more insightful view on life in the UK
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
For now, if Boris wins the next general election and Corbyn is replaced by another Corbynite then I could see Chuka leading the LDs to become the main party of the centre left and leave Labour with just the hard left, unlike Swinson he was part if Ed Miliband's Shadow Cabinet not the Coalition.
Remember too in May in the European Parliament elections the Liberals came second and beat Labour in a UK wide election for the first time since 1918. The only areas Labour won were the inner cities like Nottingham and Liverpool and Manchester and Leicester, a few ethnic minority heavy places like Luton and Slough and the poorer parts of London, everywhere else the LDs came ahead of Labour
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
thats the confusing bit, Brexit aside what do they stand for ?
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
thats the confusing bit, Brexit aside what do they stand for ?
mind you the rest arent much better.
I agree with you, but “Bollocks to Brexit” has the virtue of simplicity and clarity.
They ought to be clearing away some of the weeds in the background though. They need to get rid of tuition fees - it is their clause 4.
Precisely so. The English have bullied the Irish for centuries but thanks to Irish membership of the EU the boot is now on the other foot. And, to mix metaphors, the English don't like it up em.
And their new power has got them a hard border. Nicely done.
But a hard Bexit and a hard border will lead in short order to a united Ireland. Which is what the Irish Republic has always wanted.
Im still waiting to hear whos going to pay for it.
I take it you think the Irish are stupid ?
Maybe you do, though you are the fool if that is the case. You might want to look at the Irish education system which is somewhat superior in almost every way to ours.
I was brought up in the Irish education system and having read your post, totally agree your education is not what it could be,
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
Remember too in May in the European Parliament elections the Liberals came second and beat Labour in a UK wide election for the first time since 1918.
Since December 1910 actually. 1918 is a difficult election and confuses a lot of people. But basically, Coalition Liberals were not Liberals. They were effectively Unionist candidates. Where Unionists stood against Liberals, they almost invariably won (check out Fife East where Bonar Law actually disowned the Tory candidate and went to campaign for the Liberal - who still lost by a huge margin on a staggering 18 point swing). So we can only count the Liberal group under Asquith and Maclean for purposes of comparison.
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
thats the confusing bit, Brexit aside what do they stand for ?
mind you the rest arent much better.
I agree with you, but “Bollocks to Brexit” has the virtue of simplicity and clarity.
They ought to be clearing away some of the weeds in the background though. They need to get rid of tuition fees - it is their clause 4.
so do the Tories.Labour are the only ones talking sense on the matter, but if they clear up Uni fees theyll upset a lot of academics
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
After their last debacle, who could ever know what they stand for, one whiff of a ministerial car and they drop their principles.
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
After their last debacle, who could ever know what they stand for, one whiff of a ministerial car and they drop their principles.
Ok given there was no coalition option with labour what should they have done?
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
What would that leave Labour ?
That's possible, but it's also longer term. At this moment the reason the Yellows are cutting through is that Labour's voters are firmly Europhile and Labour's leadership doesn't care much either way and have no obvious or settled policy on the matter.
"Berlin-based Croatian diplomat suspended over 'pure' and 'white Europe' comments The Facebook profile posted about a "pure" Europe, and likened the LGBT community to paedophiles and the mentally ill."
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
What would that leave Labour ?
With the welfare dependent underclass and some of the ethnic minority vote, the graduate middle class leaning LD and the white lower middle class and skilled working class leaning Tory
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
After their last debacle, who could ever know what they stand for, one whiff of a ministerial car and they drop their principles.
Ok given there was no coalition option with labour what should they have done?
They were in an impossible position. I think they did the responsible thing by forming the coalition, the big thing that destroyed them was the tuition fees debacle: in hindsight perhaps should they have brought down the government over it, I think that would have helped their position though it’s difficult to say with any certainty and there’s a danger they might have looked like they were acting in their own interest rather than the national interest (back when acting in the national interest appeared to count for something).
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
What would that leave Labour ?
The hard left and the 'my father and his father voted for them so I have to' voters
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
After many years I just hope they project policies they support and don’t fall into The Who will you support trap. They need to hammer home what they stand for and ignore everything else.
After their last debacle, who could ever know what they stand for, one whiff of a ministerial car and they drop their principles.
Ok given there was no coalition option with labour what should they have done?
Well, with hindsight they should have died in the ditch over tuition fees (which were hugely important to their voters) rather than constitutional reform (which it turns out was only really important to their MPs).
The sad thing is there were very good and obvious reasons to reject the Browne report - starting with the fact he was a self-confessed perjurer, moving through the trifling detail that his erratic behaviour and chronic mismanagement was partly responsible for the worst environmental disaster of all time, and concluding with the fact that he spoke only to vice chancellors and not to students or lecturers so his report lacked a broad evidential basis and was therefore, amazingly, incompetent bollocks. But nobody was willing to stand up and actually do it.
If they had done that, Davey might well be Leader of the Opposition by now.
Remember too in May in the European Parliament elections the Liberals came second and beat Labour in a UK wide election for the first time since 1918.
Since December 1910 actually. 1918 is a difficult election and confuses a lot of people. But basically, Coalition Liberals were not Liberals. They were effectively Unionist candidates. Where Unionists stood against Liberals, they almost invariably won (check out Fife East where Bonar Law actually disowned the Tory candidate and went to campaign for the Liberal - who still lost by a huge margin on a staggering 18 point swing). So we can only count the Liberal group under Asquith and Maclean for purposes of comparison.
Even worse for Corbyn, Labour did worse than under any universal suffrage election and before universal suffrage it was of course the Liberals the main alternative to the Tories
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
Train drivers are paid far too much, but they're able to maintain their pay by threatening to grind the country to a halt by going on strike at the drop of a hat. I look forward to the invention of teleportation.
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
What would that leave Labour ?
I now believe the only way the right will complete the takeover of the WWC vote will be under a movement that is NOT the Tories. Yes the sentiment is shifting away from the Labour Party, but there is a deep seated distrust of “the Tories” that I think stops a lot of people moving into their column, particularly in the northern urban areas.
Train drivers have rather easy jobs involving sitting down and looking for red lights and stoping at the appropriate place. This is why, IIRC, it's one of the most unionised jobs going and difficult to break into. However they are assessed at regular intervals and are fired if they underperform. So they are more deserving than solicitors, in that respect at least.
Train drivers are paid far too much, but they're able to maintain their pay by threatening to grind the country to a halt by going on strike at the drop of a hat. I look forward to the invention of teleportation.
Will you be beaming when it becomes a reality?
(Suck on that, you losers at the Edinburgh fringe!)
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
the LDs have the chance to replace Labour for the second time in my life. Odds are theyll scew it up again
Only if Labour replace Corbyn with someone from the soft left as Kinnock replaced Foot after the 1983 defeat, in 1983 Labour got its lowest voteshare since 1918, Corbyn Labour is now polling lower than Foot did then
Much as Idlike to see the LDs succeed I fear they just lack that clear meassage and killer instinct in the way the SNP did, they will spend half their time attacking the Tories and the other half attacking Labour, as a result theyll end up with policies all over the place,
They have one huge advantage. They are the only major national party that hasn't dug itself into a veritable mohole over Brexit. Whatever the democratic principles involved, at least their message is simple, clear, and appeals to a very large chunk of 48% of the electorate.
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
Id say one further advantage could be the moving tectonic plates of the UK electorate. The coalition that was Labour is looking fragile middle class poshos and working class have less in common these days. The Tories too are split between the metropolitans and the shires. depending how the shifts go we could have poshos and metropolitans under an LD banner and the norney handed sons of toil under a britain first Tory party.
What would that leave Labour ?
With the welfare dependent underclass and some of the ethnic minority vote, the graduate middle class leaning LD and the white lower middle class and skilled working class leaning Tory
The largest sector of welfare, indeed the overwhelming majority of it, are pensioners.
Comments
If Boris extended again though and we are still in the EU at the time of the next general election I think only Farage could stop Corbyn as the Tories would fall back behind the Brexit Party
Without the Tory gains in Scotland in 2017 we would have seen a Corbyn led coalition take power in June 2017.
He'll capitulate to the EU like he did to Bob Crow.
On current polling Boris could win enough Labour seats to make up for any losses to the SNP and LDs and he would still win more Scottish seats than Cameron did in 2015 when he won a UK wide majority for the Tories
So a benefits concert for those in the legal profession who aren't as fortunate as me would appropriate.
I was very fortunate to get on to the housing ladder back in 2000 thanks to my parents and grandmother.
It set up my financial security for life, to think I was nervous about getting a mortgage aged 21.
back to the future is ok by me
"Hold steady" at 3.7%? 405 votes? You expect the LD's to be up on the 67.4 %?
Mmmm. We'll see.
With DOO they also have to deal with up to 1000 annoyed / injured passengers until the response team arrives if anything does go wrong. Plus there's the risk of hitting people at level crossings, or hitting trespassers or suicides. It's always seemed like it would be a nice job for 99.99% of the time, but that remaining 0.01% could be horrendous.
Corbyn, of course...
they lost to a bus you know,
https://twitter.com/asim08535742/status/1163798409268080642?s=21
I wouldn’t call him a chinless wonder, he was a decent historian and by all accounts is an excellent administrator of the V&A - even if his parliamentary career was a bit blah.
Yes I know his father was a Lord, but it was a political appointment not an aristocratic one.
Although the most amusing thing he did was cross a picket line to deliver a lecture on Marxism and working class solidarity.
His education policy was also vacuous and inept. All he could muster against Gove were bland and meaningless clichés, because he didn't know what he was talking about and couldn't be bothered to find out.
The most comically inept party leader in UK history More vacuous than Iain Duncan Smith, more self-righteous than Tim Farron, more wooden than Theresa May.
And a Bollox to stopping No Deal to boot, how must Davey feel losing to her
(Admittedly, this could be damning with faint praise. Better than a Fascist and a fuckwit. But I think personally that Swinson's done OK so far. How she capitalises on Labour's latest Brexit shambles is key to how well she does in an autumn election.)
Remember too in May in the European Parliament elections the Liberals came second and beat Labour in a UK wide election for the first time since 1918. The only areas Labour won were the inner cities like Nottingham and Liverpool and Manchester and Leicester, a few ethnic minority heavy places like Luton and Slough and the poorer parts of London, everywhere else the LDs came ahead of Labour
But that will be moot if we leave before the next election. Making the case to,rejoin will be much harder.
mind you the rest arent much better.
They ought to be clearing away some of the weeds in the background though. They need to get rid of tuition fees - it is their clause 4.
What would that leave Labour ?
As a metaphor, this looks promising...
The Facebook profile posted about a "pure" Europe, and likened the LGBT community to paedophiles and the mentally ill."
https://news.sky.com/story/berlin-based-croatian-diplomat-suspended-over-pure-and-white-europe-comments-11789897
The sad thing is there were very good and obvious reasons to reject the Browne report - starting with the fact he was a self-confessed perjurer, moving through the trifling detail that his erratic behaviour and chronic mismanagement was partly responsible for the worst environmental disaster of all time, and concluding with the fact that he spoke only to vice chancellors and not to students or lecturers so his report lacked a broad evidential basis and was therefore, amazingly, incompetent bollocks. But nobody was willing to stand up and actually do it.
If they had done that, Davey might well be Leader of the Opposition by now.
https://twitter.com/MAN_TOGA_SRS_AJ/status/1163764524262068225?s=20
However many aircraft do we have for our aircraft carrier?
(Suck on that, you losers at the Edinburgh fringe!)