Checked my Brewer and Collins for any mention of pussy grabbing hubris - could find none FTR. Perhaps it's a translation from the original greek - Is Ishmael, like Boris, a Classics graduate.
I'll be against tuition fees when someone explains how this makes a difference at all when your rent still has to be paid for.
The Tuition Fees debate charade just keeps the working classes in their place
Accomodation fees were paid out of a student's Maintenance Grant when I was a student in the mid- 1970s . I believe that continued to be the case until the 1990s.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
It's extremely relevant to a career in the modern world.
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
Incontrovertible!
PS. You believe the earth is getting warmer? You mean like a religion or cult?
The Earth was notably warmer when the dinosaurs were in charge. Not many of them about these days.....
(One for the syllogists among us)
The place is swarming with the little buggers, they have just been rebadged. KFC is actually Kentucky Fried Dinosaur.
Butt if the syllogism you are looking for says that if it gets warm enough T Rexes will be roaming the streets, bring it on!
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
An understanding of hubris would have done a few of our bankers no end of good.
Hubris hardly ever means hubris in that sense. The basic meaning of the word is male-on-female sexual violence. Pussy-grabbing in other words.
"It's happening and is a massive problem but the prognosis is more uncertain than those in the industry and the most ardent greens often imply".
"I don't like the sound of it, it's depressing, and I don't like the sort of people who bang on about it, and anyway from what I've read up it doesn't stack up."
First type is fine. Second type is softhead.
The real problem is it often goes beyond the second, and becomes a conspiracy theory about science.
The tragedy is, I think you genuinely mean that. You believe that demanding proof of AGW is like demanding proof that Apollo 11 landed on the moon, or that terrorists blew up the twin towers.
Blair's "send everyone to university" nonsense has a lot to answer for.
I think Hubris was mainly male/male.
The ultimate form of humiliation in the Ancient World was for one male to rape another, or even get his slaves to do so.
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Are you saying that if climate scientists were warning of a new ice age they wouldn’t get paid?
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
That would be true if it bore any relation to what a Classics course actually entails...
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
Funny how in the 3rd century BC Eratosthenes managed to calculate the circumference of a flat earth then...
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
"The earliest reliably documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 6th century BC when it appeared in ancient Greek philosophy, but remained a matter of speculation until the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the Earth as a physical given and calculated Earth's circumference."
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end? How long will it be before the Speaker becomes a partisan position, appointed and fired by the majority of the day and making rules in their favour?
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
Funny how in the 3rd century BC Eratosthenes managed to calculate the circumference of a flat earth then...
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
Yes, well what a pity that none of THOSE greeks are included in the "Classics"
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
Most sailors understood that the earth was curved at least. Why else could you see ships masts for a while after the ship itself had sunk below the horizon.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
Funny how in the 3rd century BC Eratosthenes managed to calculate the circumference of a flat earth then...
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
That would be true if it bore any relation to what a Classics course actually entails...
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end?
Indeed.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
I though the Lega gave up being Northern quite some time ago?
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
Yes, well what a pity that none of THOSE greeks are included in the "Classics"
You have changed your argument.
You gave a list of "Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs....."
We (collectively) have pointed out that your list is garbage.
Will they include Anne Widdecombe and Priti Patel?
It is so bloody typical that the Greens respond to the only way to stop No Deal or a terrorist backing bigot as PM by needlessly making it a gender war thing.
I'll be against tuition fees when someone explains how this makes a difference at all when your rent still has to be paid for.
The Tuition Fees debate charade just keeps the working classes in their place
Tuition Fees - first introduced by the Glorious Labour Party in 1998.
Yes and famously tripled by or something by the Coalition.
Speaking as someone without a degree - I'm all for them.
Why should an Asda worker have to pay for the higher education of the mainly middle class?
Beacuse they will spend their working lives paying more in tax thanks to earning higher wages.
Yes I have heard this argument before - it's like a spit in the face of the working classes
It isn't that much of a spit in the face of the working classes. I got free university education, my sister left school at 16 and still lives on the council estate we grew up on. Yes I've paid more taxes, but I've also been a lot more productive and have ended up employing people and bringing in export earnings for the country. But that wasn't a gift. I had to work hard to get in in the first place, to get a good degree while there and to turn that knowledge into a means to turn a coin. My sister has had a much easier time of it. We've made different choices. I don't look down on her, and she doesn't resent me. If we make access to education easier for people from all backgrounds we have a fairer and more open society, but we also have a more competitive one on the world stage.
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Are you saying that if climate scientists were warning of a new ice age they wouldn’t get paid?
Any climate scientist who could show that burning fossil fuels is not causing climate change would become an instant millionaire, courtesy of a grateful fossil fuel industry!
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end?
Indeed.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
It is my understanding the convention is that the PM must either resign or have a general election after a no confidence vote. I don't think that is being broken.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
Economics isn't a science.
[ducks]
Engineering is though (it includes both physical and chemical engineering)
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
Funny how in the 3rd century BC Eratosthenes managed to calculate the circumference of a flat earth then...
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
Why does Plato get a laugh, out of interest? Perhaps a lol at his hilarious misconception that there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality? And I don't think either he or Aristotle thought that women could conceive and give birth without sexual impregnation - a much bigger howler than the tooth thing, I'd have thought, and both issues on which our society has managed to be plain wrong for a couple of millennia.
But we definitely have faster cars and a wider range of social media than they did, if that's the kind of level at which you want to argue.
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
I though the Lega gave up being Northern quite some time ago?
Speculative question. Could the SNP do what the (Northern) League has done?
Could it transform itself from a secessionist party to a UK national party?
I'll be against tuition fees when someone explains how this makes a difference at all when your rent still has to be paid for.
The Tuition Fees debate charade just keeps the working classes in their place
Tuition Fees - first introduced by the Glorious Labour Party in 1998.
Yes and famously tripled by or something by the Coalition.
Speaking as someone without a degree - I'm all for them.
Why should an Asda worker have to pay for the higher education of the mainly middle class?
Because it is/was the only/quickest way that the children of the working-class could become middle-class. Back in the day of heavy industry, where a working class job had a non-trivial chance of actually getting you killed or deformed (nowadays, amputations are limited to military personnel: it wasn't always thus), it was the best chance of an uplift and several working-class parents sweated blood to make it happen.
Back then, funding came from grants: you got money from the local council or education board dependent on how much your parents earned. So poor children got all expenses paid including rent, fees and food, but middle-class children had to pay.
Blair (spit) decided that this wasn't good enough, and decided to turn universities to middle-class creches so that the children of Jocasta and Thomas could piss around doing history of art for three years between gap years before becoming an intern in Daddy's firm. Grants became history, tuition fees became big, then huge, and now poor kids are comprehensively fucked.
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
The first three are bad science. Reading the philosophical justification for the last is interesting.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
Yes, well what a pity that none of THOSE greeks are included in the "Classics"
You have changed your argument.
You gave a list of "Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs....."
We (collectively) have pointed out that your list is garbage.
"Some" indicates the list is incomplete...
I had forgotten the bone-headed pedantry of this place.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
Close, but parliament has exacting standards!
That’s lucky anyway. He’s busy working in the shop.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
Funny how in the 3rd century BC Eratosthenes managed to calculate the circumference of a flat earth then...
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
Why does Plato get a laugh, out of interest? Perhaps a lol at his hilarious misconception that there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality? And I don't think either he or Aristotle thought that women could conceive and give birth without sexual impregnation - a much bigger howler than the tooth thing, I'd have thought, and both issues on which our society has managed to be plain wrong for a couple of millennia.
But we definitely have faster cars and a wider range of social media than they did, if that's the kind of level at which you want to argue.
Studying the Roman Emperors presumably includes who set the Empire up for success and who bungled their way to its collapse. I can't think of a better course for political leaders in the 2010s.
Whether Boris Johnson has actually internalized those matters is another question.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Are you saying that if climate scientists were warning of a new ice age they wouldn’t get paid?
Any climate scientist who could show that burning fossil fuels is not causing climate change would become an instant millionaire, courtesy of a grateful fossil fuel industry!
Wouldnt happen, because he wouldn't achieve the status of credible climate scientist if he showed signs of believing that at any stage before attaining tenure (and that is not a conspiracy theory, it is just how academia works), so he would have to perform a complete and unconvincing volte face to introduce his new theory.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
Economics isn't a science.
[ducks]
Engineering is though (it includes both physical and chemical engineering)
"Engineering" these days is like "analysis": it covers so many fields it's now imprecise - there's civil (bridges), electrical/later electronic (circuit boards and chip design), software (writing code) chemical (stuff involving test tubes?), genetic/biological (probably monsters?) and god knows what else...
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Quite right. That any proportion of experts support it is a dreadful argument for climate change. In 1858 only one biologist believed in evolution. The argument from authority is strictly for shutting people up when they don't know what they are talking about. Or you don't. Or more likely neither of you do.
There are always exceptions but I doubt they teach Eratosthenes, Democritus, Aristarchus, Archimedes, Ptolomaeus, etc in the Classics. AIUI the courses are Plato and Aristotle and the history of Roman Emperors
"It's happening and is a massive problem but the prognosis is more uncertain than those in the industry and the most ardent greens often imply".
"I don't like the sound of it, it's depressing, and I don't like the sort of people who bang on about it, and anyway from what I've read up it doesn't stack up."
First type is fine. Second type is softhead.
How about: the climate is changing , man probably has something to do with it but we’re not sure what and how much. And some of the proposed remedies are just bar shit crazy
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
Economics isn't a science.
[ducks]
Engineering is though (it includes both physical and chemical engineering)
"Engineering" these days is like "analysis": it covers so many fields it's now imprecise - there's civil (bridges), electrical/later electronic (circuit boards and chip design), software (writing code) chemical (stuff involving test tubes?), genetic/biological (probably monsters?) and god knows what else...
... I've just googled it. Aaargh!
Yeah, but Charles has not given any reasons for his assertion that 'engineering' is a science. Does it involve an ongoing process of refining theories and formulating testable hypotheses, for instance? Engineering certainly uses scientific knowledge, but does it itself create such knowledge?
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
I though the Lega gave up being Northern quite some time ago?
Speculative question. Could the SNP do what the (Northern) League has done?
Could it transform itself from a secessionist party to a UK national party?
Under PR, possibly. There are plenty of Labour voters looking for a home. Particularly were they to emphasise localism. Under our system, though, they'd just be another spilt of the left vote.
"It's happening and is a massive problem but the prognosis is more uncertain than those in the industry and the most ardent greens often imply".
"I don't like the sound of it, it's depressing, and I don't like the sort of people who bang on about it, and anyway from what I've read up it doesn't stack up."
First type is fine. Second type is softhead.
How about: the climate is changing , man probably has something to do with it but we’re not sure what and how much. And some of the proposed remedies are just bar shit crazy
I think continuing to pollute record amounts into the only known habitable atmosphere while we figure it out is the most bat shit crazy thing of all.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
I have a degree in mathematical sciences and a degree in PPE, but I am assuredly unelectable. I needed a masters in economics on top of those to get a decent job.
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Are you saying that if climate scientists were warning of a new ice age they wouldn’t get paid?
If they weren’t warning of catastrophe ey would t get as much attention
The best argument against student loans is that it screws up birth rates. Successful people can't afford to have kids until their late 30s because they are drowning in debt.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
If we are taliking about such things ....
Our glorious leader is "educated" in Classics. Is it possible to do a less relevant course for a career in the modern world? Being able to quote in Latin or Greek, ideas that are 2000 years old (many of which were plain wrong) is not exactly a sign of brilliance IMO
Some would say that the ancient Greek philosophers basically nailed everything, and we've just been refining their work ever since.
Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs.....
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
You sound like a pub bore.
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
As someone who studied Aristotle and Plato, it is quite noticeable how often you hear their ideas repeated on PB. They pretty much had all the main points covered.
Yes and famously tripled by or something by the Coalition.
Speaking as someone without a degree - I'm all for them.
Why should an Asda worker have to pay for the higher education of the mainly middle class?
It's so that a barrier to the children of that ASDA worker going to uni is removed.
If uni is free at point of delivery to all who are intellectually equipped for it - funded out of general taxation - this would lessen class privilege.
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end?
Indeed.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end?
Indeed.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
Except that convention is the PM faces a General Election not that they resign.
The best argument against student loans is that it screws up birth rates. Successful people can't afford to have kids until their late 30s because they are drowning in debt.
The best argument against student loans is that it screws up birth rates. Successful people can't afford to have kids until their late 30s because they are drowning in debt.
Except that's not true. If someone in their 20s takes time off working then they don't repay their student loan.
I feel MPs are playing with fire here. The whole way constitutional government works is by both sides agreeing a common set of rules up front, and then funnelling policy arguments through those rules. If one side just makes rules on the fly to get what they want through, where does it end?
Indeed.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
I though the Lega gave up being Northern quite some time ago?
Speculative question. Could the SNP do what the (Northern) League has done?
Could it transform itself from a secessionist party to a UK national party?
Thanks to Cyclefree for another withering piece on the state of affairs. I was reasonably involved in this as an MP - toured the local prison, had a detailed briefing on another, and help write the Justice Select Committee paper on the relative costs and benefits of different kinds of investment in the justice system, based on international experien ce - for what it's worth the thing I'm most proud of doing in my 13 years in the Commons.
Simulating a Tory of the old-fashioned "spend wisely" kind for a moment (before the current team adopted mock-Keynesian economics), which of the problems that Cyclefree identifies would she (or others) give priority to allocating money for? I appreciate that some just need changes in attitude, but others really require substantial sums. Would there be anything we should give up on (e.g. never imprison anyone for less than a year)?
IMO short sentences are pointless. So I would give up on those. There was some good work on this being done by David Gauke, before he resigned. I would also do more in the rehabilitation field: so many offenders come from care homes, are illiterate etc. Spending money teaching them skills is a worthwhile investment.
There is much more scope for efficiencies in the court process, which would also help. But if you want a proper justice system, you need to pay for it. If you get caught up in the criminal system, you are effectively dependant on the kindness of others. It is grotesque and makes a mockery of the rule of law.
And thanks for the Select Committee report. I will read it with interest.
Please don't give up on short sentences.
I couldn't bear it if everyone on PB starting writing in the style of Henry James. e.g from The Golden Bowl (plucked at random) "This establishment, mysterious and almost anonymous, the windows of which, at hours of highest pressure, never seemed, for starers and wonderers, perceptibly to glow, must in fact have been during certain years the scene of an unprecedented, a miraculous white-heat, the receipt for producing which it was practically felt that the master of the forge could not have communicated even with the best intentions." Unreadable.
The best argument against student loans is that it screws up birth rates. Successful people can't afford to have kids until their late 30s because they are drowning in debt.
That’s actually an argument *for* student loans for many environmentalists, who are desperately looking for methods to reduce reproduction.
The best argument against student loans is that it screws up birth rates. Successful people can't afford to have kids until their late 30s because they are drowning in debt.
Except that's not true. If someone in their 20s takes time off working then they don't repay their student loan.
Yes exactly. The repayment system means that we are nothing like the US where people genuinely can't afford good universities. It effectively functions like a tax on the individual rather than a loan repayment.
How about: the climate is changing , man probably has something to do with it but we’re not sure what and how much. And some of the proposed remedies are just bar shit crazy
This sounds as if it might be verging dangerously close to my reprehensible second category. But would need some too and fro before concluding that for certain.
I think as a compromise we should stipulate that all MPs should have a degree in a STEM subject together with a degree in PPE.
Now where would you find someone to meet that specification?
My brother studied Engineering, Economics and Management - a joint discipline between the Engineering and PPE faculties. Required physics, chemistry and maths a-levels.
Would that qualify?
Economics isn't a science.
[ducks]
Engineering is though (it includes both physical and chemical engineering)
Chemical Engineering is definitely NOT a science!!!
Quite right. That any proportion of experts support it is a dreadful argument for climate change. In 1858 only one biologist believed in evolution. The argument from authority is strictly for shutting people up when they don't know what they are talking about. Or you don't. Or more likely neither of you do.
But given most people are not equipped to opine with authority on matters pertaining to any branch of science, how can they sensibly hold a view that is at odds with the one held by the vast majority of practitioners?
Look, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with me. My point is that practioners of a subject are unlikely to be sceptical of it. Simply, it's in one's financial interest to find evidence that a chosen field is - how to put this - a good one, rather than a bad one.
Phrenologists went round looking for evidence that you could derive behaviour from the shape of the skull.
I'm just trying to work out what you're getting at. Because you followed up your reference to phrenology with a statement that you weren't saying climate change wasn't real.
I'm just trying to work out what you are saying, if you're not saying that. That you doubt whether it's real, because you don't trust scientists, because they get paid?
I believe that the earth is getting warmer. The evidence from NOAA seems pretty uncontravertible.
My point is that the statement "xx% of climate scientists" is not one that carries much weight with me. Simply, show me the data, not a survey of a practioners who have a vested interest in their subject being true.
Are you saying that if climate scientists were warning of a new ice age they wouldn’t get paid?
Any climate scientist who could show that burning fossil fuels is not causing climate change would become an instant millionaire, courtesy of a grateful fossil fuel industry!
And the fact that’s not happening, despite the obvious rewards, indicates no such evidence exists.
Comments
They should include Theresa May though...
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/978302412363624448?s=19 Henry Marsh?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/30/do-no-harm-stories-brain-surgery-review-henry-marsh
The ultimate form of humiliation in the Ancient World was for one male to rape another, or even get his slaves to do so.
The Earth is flat, women have less teeth than men, eels do not reproduce and some people deserve to be slaves....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_Earth
Edit: Actually this is a better one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth
"The earliest reliably documented mention of the spherical Earth concept dates from around the 6th century BC when it appeared in ancient Greek philosophy, but remained a matter of speculation until the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the Earth as a physical given and calculated Earth's circumference."
The ancient Greek astronomers understood that the Earth was round.
Actually, when Greek civilisation was overthrown by Rome, it was a huge catastrophe.
Hipparchus was one of the greatest astronomers of all time. He showed that a stereographic projection is conformal. Euclid's proof of the infinity of prime numbers -- in its elegance and pithiness -- marks Greek science as a truly astonishing achievement.
It was to take a 1000 years before science recovered from the fall of Greece.
That is a measure of how great the Greek scientists were.
If a PM flouts the convention that they don't resign having lost a vote of confidence, where does it end...
As it's fairly quiet, one or two notes from the current European polling.
Austria: Little change with the OVP still enjoying a huge lead over both the SPD and the FPO who are both languishing around 20%. Interesting to see both NEOS and the Greens on 10% so perhaps some different coalition permutations may be in play after the election on September 29th.
Poland: elections here on October 13th. The Law & Justice Party of Prime Minister Morawiecki is polling 45% so would enjoy a comfortable majority in the Sejm on those numbers, The opposition Civic Platform is on 27% with the Social Democrats on 15%.
Romania: elections here likely at the end of 2020 or early 2021. The conservative National Liberals are on 31% while the Social Democrats have lost half their 2016 vote and trail with 24%. The new party on the Bucharest block is A2020 or USR which is effectively Romania's En Marche and has 20% in the polls.
Germany: The latest Emnid poll stretches the CDU/CSU lead over the Greens to four points (26/22) with AfD and the SPD tied on 14%. This contradicts a Forsa poll putting the CDU/CSU only one point ahead (26/25) with AfD on 13% and SPD on 12%.
Italy: The Northern League under Salvini continues to dominate with a 15 point lead over the Social Democrats (38-23) and M5S trailing on 17%.
Portugal: Voting here takes place on October 6th and the incumbent Government of Antonio Costa looks on course for a big win. The Socialist poll lead is around 13-15 points (roughly 37-22) with the Left Bloc on 10%.
You gave a list of "Some of the ancients' greatest triumphs....."
We (collectively) have pointed out that your list is garbage.
But we definitely have faster cars and a wider range of social media than they did, if that's the kind of level at which you want to argue.
Could it transform itself from a secessionist party to a UK national party?
Back then, funding came from grants: you got money from the local council or education board dependent on how much your parents earned. So poor children got all expenses paid including rent, fees and food, but middle-class children had to pay.
Blair (spit) decided that this wasn't good enough, and decided to turn universities to middle-class creches so that the children of Jocasta and Thomas could piss around doing history of art for three years between gap years before becoming an intern in Daddy's firm. Grants became history, tuition fees became big, then huge, and now poor kids are comprehensively fucked.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/10/lib-dems-target-tories-brexit-jo-swinson-election
I had forgotten the bone-headed pedantry of this place.
Whether Boris Johnson has actually internalized those matters is another question.
... I've just googled it. Aaargh!
If uni is free at point of delivery to all who are intellectually equipped for it - funded out of general taxation - this would lessen class privilege.
New thread
I'm not a bloody chemist!
A Brexit where the UK has a clear break from the EU.”
(net unacceptable)
Wales +58
N Ireland +51
Scotland +44
South of England +30
Midlands +25
North of England +21
London +19
SNP-voters +88
Lib Dem-voters +82
PC-voters +62
Green-voters +53
Lab-voters +36
Con-voters -12
Brexit Party-voters -94
UK total +28
https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/VI-08-08-19-Tables.xlsx
Con and Bxp voters clearly out of synk with the entire UK.