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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003
    Another Russian connection for Trump; he seems to be an admirer of lysenkoism:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/05/ziska-usda-climate-agriculture-trump-1445271
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,620
    edited August 2019

    I would like those in PB who know more about parliamentary procedures and the law.
    If I remember correctly, when the EU extended the 29th March date to 12th April or 22nd May, there was some discussion certainly amongst Brexitors [ I remember Bill Cash asking a question in the HoC as he always does ], that the actual Act of Parliament which said 29th March was not amended. I remember there was a post in PB saying that was not necessary because the EU changing the date always superseded Parlaiment. Is that correct ? In fact, was the 29th March date ever changed ?

    Now I come to the Cummings conundrum. If Johnson and the Tories dissolve Parliament after a VoNC or anyway but calls an election after 31st October; according to them Brexit would have taken place already.

    The reason I put forward the first para is this: what if the EU seeing the political impasse in the UK, unilaterally extend the 31st October deadline to, say, 31st December or any other date ?

    Easy answer - they can't because it requires unanimity among all member states and until the UK leaves it is still a member state. So unless it agrees to it, the EU cannot extend.

    And in practice, if we didn't ask for an extension the EU would not extend on its own even if it could.

    They might elect to act as if the transition period were in force - although I think it unlikely.
  • I would like those in PB who know more about parliamentary procedures and the law.
    If I remember correctly, when the EU extended the 29th March date to 12th April or 22nd May, there was some discussion certainly amongst Brexitors [ I remember Bill Cash asking a question in the HoC as he always does ], that the actual Act of Parliament which said 29th March was not amended. I remember there was a post in PB saying that was not necessary because the EU changing the date always superseded Parlaiment. Is that correct ? In fact, was the 29th March date ever changed ?

    Now I come to the Cummings conundrum. If Johnson and the Tories dissolve Parliament after a VoNC or anyway but calls an election after 31st October; according to them Brexit would have taken place already.

    The reason I put forward the first para is this: what if the EU seeing the political impasse in the UK, unilaterally extend the 31st October deadline to, say, 31st December or any other date ?

    Two issues. Firstly yes UK law was changed via regulation. That can't happen if Parliament is dissolved.

    Secondly the UK must agree to any extension. The EU can't change it unilaterally.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 962
    Another bumbling mess from Johnson, he never changes
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    loking at that map it seems like the Borders may well be keen to become part of England rather than head for the Scexit :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,984

    the BB were more realistic about mixing a social market economy with anglo saxon capitalism than John Major ever was.
    Are you the same person who voted for Brexit so that the government would intervene more in the economy to provide more stimulating jobs?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,001

    Did you write this?

    "Clearly Ireland now wishes to be brought under the moral tutelage of more modern, more secular, more capitalistic powers. London is a more logical and convenient choice for that role than Brussels."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/europeans-have-started-to-change-their-minds-on-brexit/
    It felt strange reading that piece - as if I'd intruded into some parallel universe in which Brexit is going so smoothly and Boris's only fault is that a few silly foreigners just don't appreciate how magnificent he is.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    We won the World Cup and only the first test
    Yes, we won the world cup because the umpires did not know the rules, then beat almighty Ireland and, unless Archer turns out to be something special, looking at a 5-0 drubbing. This is not even the Aussies' strongest bowling line-up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,811

    ... David Cameron will hope he's not in them
    I hope he is. As you have thoughtfully demonstrated, people have a lopsided memory of what he achieved and what he didn't achieve. His deal will be one of those if only moments according to historians (I believe) and probably set down as a great missed opportunity.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,003

    It felt strange reading that piece - as if I'd intruded into some parallel universe in which Brexit is going so smoothly and Boris's only fault is that a few silly foreigners just don't appreciate how magnificent he is.
    I got the sneaky feeling the author, and the Spectator, is trying to convince itself as much as anything else.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    ydoethur said:

    Easy answer - they can't because it requires unanimity among all member states and until the UK leaves it is still a member state. So unless it agrees to it, the EU cannot extend.

    And in practice, if we didn't ask for an extension the EU would not extend on its own even if it could.

    They might elect to act as if the transition period were in force - although I think it unlikely.
    The UK did not ask for 31st October. It asked for June 30. Mrs May was not even in the room when the 31st October date was agreed.

    When was the 29th March date changed ? Before or after 29th March. Please mention the date.
  • Two issues. Firstly yes UK law was changed via regulation. That can't happen if Parliament is dissolved.

    Secondly the UK must agree to any extension. The EU can't change it unilaterally.
    I believe you are correct on the second point but wrong on the first.

    Yes both sides have to agree to an extension under Article 50.

    But no, Parliament being dissolved does not prevent the date being changed by regulation. Government in its basic form continues to function even when Parliament has been dissolved. The PM is still PM until he is replaced and the basic operation of Government continues. Hence Alistair Darling was able to go to Brussels and negotiate on behalf of the UK during the Greece crisis even though the election had been held and discussions were underway on forming a new Government. It was very much to his credit that he chose to consult with Osborne on what the UK position should be and what it should commit to. There was no legal requirement for him to do that.

    So my understanding is that the Government could, if it chose, seek an extension even though Parliament has been dissolved as Parliament has no direct role in that decision.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,382
    edited August 2019
    I just hope Corbyn is gone by Indyref2 (if it happens). I think we all saw the effects of his 'campaigning' in the Eu Referendum.
    If the Union does come to an end, it'll be in part down to the selfish decision of Labour members to vote for someone who made them feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, as opposed to an actual plausible leader who actually cares about the survival of the UK.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 327
    OK folks, serious advice sought.
    How should one plan for the practicalities of a no-deal Brexit?

    Have plenty of cash, but how much?
    Stock up on prescription medicines (for my wife, I am not on any)
    Stock up on toiletries, loo roll, batteries, light bulbs, printer ink, etc
    Stock up on tinned and dried foods,
    Planting winter vegetables
    Get bicycle serviced (in case petrol runs unavailable)


    What else should we all be doing before its too late
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003

    I believe you are correct on the second point but wrong on the first.

    Yes both sides have to agree to an extension under Article 50.

    But no, Parliament being dissolved does not prevent the date being changed by regulation. Government in its basic form continues to function even when Parliament has been dissolved. The PM is still PM until he is replaced and the basic operation of Government continues. Hence Alistair Darling was able to go to Brussels and negotiate on behalf of the UK during the Greece crisis even though the election had been held and discussions were underway on forming a new Government. It was very much to his credit that he chose to consult with Osborne on what the UK position should be and what it should commit to. There was no legal requirement for him to do that.

    So my understanding is that the Government could, if it chose, seek an extension even though Parliament has been dissolved as Parliament has no direct role in that decision.
    Which would require a GONU, after Johnson gets no confidenced.
    Absent that, I think the idea that it is too late to prevent No Deal is probably correct.
  • franklyn said:

    OK folks, serious advice sought.
    How should one plan for the practicalities of a no-deal Brexit?

    Have plenty of cash, but how much?
    Stock up on prescription medicines (for my wife, I am not on any)
    Stock up on toiletries, loo roll, batteries, light bulbs, printer ink, etc
    Stock up on tinned and dried foods,
    Planting winter vegetables
    Get bicycle serviced (in case petrol runs unavailable)


    What else should we all be doing before its too late

    Serious answer. None of that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,640
    edited August 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Glasgow remember voted for independence even in 2014, Edinburgh and Aberdeen still back the Union and oppose independence even on this poll.

    Former rural traditional SNP seats like Moray now have a Tory MP
    'Traditional SNP seats?????'

    Reminds me of the line in "Arms & the Man".(Our position is almost historical : we can go back for nearly twenty years.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,003

    I just hope Corbyn is gone by Indyref2 (if it happens). I think we all saw the effects of his 'campaigning' in the Eu Referendum.
    If the Union does come to an end, it'll be in part down to the selfish decision of Labour members to vote for someone who made them feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, as opposed to an actual plausible leader who actually cares about the survival of the UK.

    Corbyn is responsible for the rise in Scottish independence now? That's a new one. Nowt to do with the Tories or Brexit, no siree. The Scots yearn to be free from the yoke of the, err, leader of the opposition.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,001

    Yes, we won the world cup because the umpires did not know the rules, then beat almighty Ireland and, unless Archer turns out to be something special, looking at a 5-0 drubbing. This is not even the Aussies' strongest bowling line-up.
    I doubt it'll be 5-0. Even Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist and co. never managed that in England. And we were also a bowler short in this match. Having to bowl second fiddlers to the Sandman in the first innings wasn't ideal.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,808

    Are you the same person who voted for Brexit so that the government would intervene more in the economy to provide more stimulating jobs?
    absolutely. I like a put our voters first policy much like Mrs Merkel.
  • Nigelb said:

    Which would require a GONU, after Johnson gets no confidenced.
    Absent that, I think the idea that it is too late to prevent No Deal is probably correct.
    I think that is a separate matter. The only way in which my scenario comes about is if Boris gets cold feet after an election is called. A GONU only happens if Parliament can agree one. I was looking more at a situation where Boris is still PM after Parliament is dissolved and then changes his mind about No Deal.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,384

    The UK did not ask for 31st October. It asked for June 30. Mrs May was not even in the room when the 31st October date was agreed.

    When was the 29th March date changed ? Before or after 29th March. Please mention the date.
    It may not have asked for that date originally, but that doesn't mean it didn't agree to it eventually.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,808
    TOPPING said:

    I hope he is. As you have thoughtfully demonstrated, people have a lopsided memory of what he achieved and what he didn't achieve. His deal will be one of those if only moments according to historians (I believe) and probably set down as a great missed opportunity.
    it will certainly keep the historians going. However I suspect like all brexit matters the trenches have been dug and opnion will split along Leave\Remain lines.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,984

    absolutely. I like a put our voters first policy much like Mrs Merkel.
    A social market economy?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Correct. I suspect it'll come down to "No Deal or (temporarily) Corbyn" - other solutions simply don't work.
    I think this is right. What happens will be determined by whether the moderate wings of the two main parties, plus the Lib Dems and independents (and possibly the SNP?) can agree that Corbyn is preferable to No Deal. If they can't agree, then we probably get No Deal anyway.

    A lot of MPs are going to have a very unpalatable choice to make at some point. Penny for Luciana Berger's thoughts, in particular.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Correct. I suspect it'll come down to "No Deal or (temporarily) Corbyn" - other solutions simply don't work.
    A British government which proceeded with a No Deal Brexit in the face of a Parliamentary vote against it or a successful VoNC against such a government is playing with fire, IMO.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,003

    I doubt it'll be 5-0. Even Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist and co. never managed that in England. And we were also a bowler short in this match. Having to bowl second fiddlers to the Sandman in the first innings wasn't ideal.
    If, by some chance, we could get Smith cheaply, twice, their batting has actually been not much better than average.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003

    Yes, we won the world cup because the umpires did not know the rules, then beat almighty Ireland and, unless Archer turns out to be something special, looking at a 5-0 drubbing. This is not even the Aussies' strongest bowling line-up.
    Or ours, with Anderson being incapacitated, and Woakes at least half incapacitated.

    Though now we have allowed Smith to play himself into his best form, our prospects look as dismal as Brexit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003
    dixiedean said:

    If, by some chance, we could get Smith cheaply, twice, their batting has actually been not much better than average.
    It looked a lot better in their second innings.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,003

    Serious answer. None of that.
    Whilst I agree with the general point, prescriptions might be wise.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,382
    edited August 2019
    dixiedean said:

    Corbyn is responsible for the rise in Scottish independence now? That's a new one. Nowt to do with the Tories or Brexit, no siree. The Scots yearn to be free from the yoke of the, err, leader of the opposition.
    We are where we are because Leave won in 2016, which was in large part down to Labour's pitiful attempt to campaign for Remain. I also doubt that desire for independence would be strong as it is if Labour had actually had a decent pro-EU leader in charge, who didn't have -50 approval rating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003
    Cyclefree said:



    A British government which proceeded with a No Deal Brexit in the face of a Parliamentary vote against it or a successful VoNC against such a government is playing with fire, IMO.
    They are already playing with fire, and, as we’ve seen amply demonstrated by their enthusiasts here, think it will illuminate the way to an election victory.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/the-eu/eu-exit-day-is-changed-in-uk-law/

    If Parliament captures a day after a VoNC with Bercow's help, what stops Parlaiment changing the 31st October date with EU cooperation ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,640
    Nigelb said:

    They are already playing with fire, and, as we’ve seen amply demonstrated by their enthusiasts here, think it will illuminate the way to an election victory.
    Might well; whether it will lead to another a few years later is another, and different, question. Quite possible a QTWTAIN
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2019
    Nigelb said:

    They are already playing with fire, and, as we’ve seen amply demonstrated by their enthusiasts here, think it will illuminate the way to an election victory.
    From the point of view only of the future of the Conservative Party, there is only one thing worse than the UK crashing out with no deal, and that is the UK crashing out with no deal as a result of a cynical wheeze to deny parliament a say in preventing it. The first would probably destroy the party for a generation, the second would certainly destroy it for ever.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,384

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/the-eu/eu-exit-day-is-changed-in-uk-law/

    If Parliament captures a day after a VoNC with Bercow's help, what stops Parlaiment changing the 31st October date with EU cooperation ?

    It's the executive that has to agree to it. The EU doesn't negotiate with Parliament.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,276

    Two issues. Firstly yes UK law was changed via regulation. That can't happen if Parliament is dissolved.

    Secondly the UK must agree to any extension. The EU can't change it unilaterally.
    The Uk must agree, but it doesn’t have to go through parliament after the amendment the previous government got carried.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Every worker is [ or was 20 years ago ] a protestant. Where is the DUPs power ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,702

    ... David Cameron will hope he's not in them
    David Cameron will take the advance to write those history books.

    And then never quite get round to delivering them.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,003
    edited August 2019
    Nigelb said:

    It looked a lot better in their second innings.
    It did. But IF we'd got Smith for 42 and 44, say, rather than 142 and 144, we'd need 113 to win with 5 wickets now. Game on!
    So, I reckon Smith has been the difference. No reason to reckon 5-0. They really aren't that superior.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003

    From the point of view only of the future of the Conservative Party, there is only one thing worse than the UK crashing out with no deal, and that is the UK crashing out with no deal as a result of a cynical wheeze to deny parliament a say in preventing it. The first would probably destroy the party for a generation, the second would certainly destroy it for ever.
    I agree; I doubt HYUFD, for example, does.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2019
    RobD said:


    It's the executive that has to agree to it. The EU doesn't negotiate with Parliament.

    The EU will deal with whoever is authorised under the (unwritten) UK constitution. If parliament passes an Act authorising Larry the Cat to seek an extension, the EU will deal with Larry the Cat.

    (Well, maybe not Larry the Cat, as he'd want to remain independent, but it could be something like the Brexit Select Committee).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,276
    Cyclefree said:



    A British government which proceeded with a No Deal Brexit in the face of a Parliamentary vote against it or a successful VoNC against such a government is playing with fire, IMO.
    Leaving us all hoping no-one goes and throws a match on it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    From the point of view only of the future of the Conservative Party, there is only one thing worse than the UK crashing out with no deal, and that is the UK crashing out with no deal as a result of a cynical wheeze to deny parliament a say in preventing it. The first would probably destroy the party for a generation, the second would certainly destroy it for ever.
    I could not care less about the Tory party. I do care about my country and having its form of governance ruined or destroyed by the fuckwits who’ve taken over the party of which you used to be a member.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Tbf it’s not quite the apocalypse it seems at first glance. At one time Harland and Wolff employed 30,000 people in Belfast. Now it is... 130. About the same as one big supermarket.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,567
    NEW THREAD
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,384
    New thread.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 2,018

    We are where we are because Leave won in 2016, which was in large part down to Labour's pitiful attempt to campaign for Remain. I also doubt that desire for independence wouldn't be strong as it is if Labour had actually had a decent pro-EU leader in charge, who didn't have -50 approval rating.
    Indeed, well he also has to bear responsibility for Labour's decline in Scotland as his supporters installed a stale, grey, loyalist as SLab leader in the ridiculous belief that Corbyn's innate socialist appeal would lead to a surge in Labour support in the People's Republic of Scotland. Failing, of course, to realise that puritan Islingtonian vanity in a red rosette is about as popular in Scotland as Etonian arrogance - and the big problem SLab always had wasn't being too right-wing but being seen as a branch office of London, something that's arguably worse than ever, as Leonard can't even bring himself to denounce a crap Brexit strategy that's largely aimed at hanging on to seats in the north of England in the hope Tories implode in remain areas. Leonard's best strategy would be to pick fights with the national party, but no one is allowed to question the virtue of the Dear Leader.

    An effective SLab leader making a passionate left-wing case against nationalism would be worth their weight in gold. Sadly, the slim chance of finding one is made even slimmer when you have to pick a loyalist no mark who is incapable of saying anything interesting as it might puncture the leadership's self-righteousness.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,808

    Every worker is [ or was 20 years ago ] a protestant. Where is the DUPs power ?


    you're so last millenium


    Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald met workers from the shipyard which was once a bastion of working-class unionism.

    Irish language activists were also at Stormont Estate and sang: "Save Our Yard" in Irish in a striking symbol of solidarity.

    It was a sign of fraternity in Northern Ireland's at times deeply divided society.


    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/emergency-council-meeting-called-in-desperate-bid-to-secure-future-of-troubled-hw-shipyard-38364329.html

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Nigelb said:

    I agree; I doubt HYUFD, for example, does.

    I'm quite sure he doesn't, and he'll pop up any moment with a poll showing that he's right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,003
    dixiedean said:

    It did. But IF we'd got Smith for 42 and 44, say, rather than 142 and 144, we'd need 113 to win with 5 wickets now. Game on!
    So, I reckon Smith has been the difference.
    Of course - but it’s not just Smith who has played himself into form.
    Their middle order will come to the second test with a confidence which did not look possible after their first innings. And Lyon will be very, very happy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Every worker is [ or was 20 years ago ] a protestant. Where is the DUPs power ?

    Be fair. To survive for 107 years after you build a ship which is not fit for purpose, sinks and kills most of its passengers is pretty good going. Most brands would be glad of such staying power after such a “Ratner” moment.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Cyclefree said:

    I could not care less about the Tory party. I do care about my country and having its form of governance ruined or destroyed by the fuckwits who’ve taken over the party of which you used to be a member.
    Indeed, but my point was that even in the narrowest sense of what they think is good for the party, they are spectacularly wrong.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    When was the 29th March date changed ? Before or after 29th March. Please mention the date.

    The EU withdrawal act was changed a while back so that exit day can be altered by a Minister - it didn't need any further legislation (fortunately).

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    dixiedean said:

    It did. But IF we'd got Smith for 42 and 44, say, rather than 142 and 144, we'd need 113 to win with 5 wickets now. Game on!
    So, I reckon Smith has been the difference. No reason to reckon 5-0. They really aren't that superior.
    Agreed. Take Smith away and the sides are well matched. It would be a cracking series. But he is what he is, and unless we magically find a bowler that can crack him, he will get a century in every Test and Australia will cruise to a comprehensive but rather boring victory.
  • I believe you are correct on the second point but wrong on the first.

    Yes both sides have to agree to an extension under Article 50.

    But no, Parliament being dissolved does not prevent the date being changed by regulation. Government in its basic form continues to function even when Parliament has been dissolved. The PM is still PM until he is replaced and the basic operation of Government continues. Hence Alistair Darling was able to go to Brussels and negotiate on behalf of the UK during the Greece crisis even though the election had been held and discussions were underway on forming a new Government. It was very much to his credit that he chose to consult with Osborne on what the UK position should be and what it should commit to. There was no legal requirement for him to do that.

    So my understanding is that the Government could, if it chose, seek an extension even though Parliament has been dissolved as Parliament has no direct role in that decision.
    Indeed governance continues and on an international level agreement could be made. But my understanding for the purpose of the date in the EU Withdrawal Act is that the date is changed via the government laying a procedure in Parliament. If Parliament is dissolved can they still do that? And if the can't won't the 1972 European Communities Act be repealed?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,370
    franklyn said:

    OK folks, serious advice sought.
    How should one plan for the practicalities of a no-deal Brexit?

    Have plenty of cash, but how much?
    Stock up on prescription medicines (for my wife, I am not on any)
    Stock up on toiletries, loo roll, batteries, light bulbs, printer ink, etc
    Stock up on tinned and dried foods,
    Planting winter vegetables
    Get bicycle serviced (in case petrol runs unavailable)


    What else should we all be doing before its too late

    All that really matters is organising into larger groups. In Kosovo even the best prepared singles and couples got robbed, raped and murdered in short order.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Indeed, but my point was that even in the narrowest sense of what they think is good for the party, they are spectacularly wrong.
    I know that; you know that; most sensible people know that. But they’re so drunk on their Kool-Aid that they seem oblivious of the damage they are doing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,384
    Andrew said:

    The EU withdrawal act was changed a while back so that exit day can be altered by a Minister - it didn't need any further legislation (fortunately).

    Just as well the Cabinet isn’t full of hard-line Brexiteers then.

    Oh... :D
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,117

    And in how many votes in Parliament in the last 20 years that affected England only have the votes of Scottish MPs made a difference?
    This from 2015 partially answers your question:

    By one analysis referred to in this blog post by UCL’s Robert Hazell, only 21 of 5,000 “divisions” in the House of Commons since 1997 would have produced different verdicts if Scottish MPs had been excluded. His colleague Alan Trench adds that only two bills in the New Labour era were passed due to Scottish (Labour) votes. (These were on big issues, though — university tuition fees and on foundation hospitals.)
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,031
    franklyn said:

    OK folks, serious advice sought.
    How should one plan for the practicalities of a no-deal Brexit?

    What else should we all be doing before its too late

    Compile list of names. Bide time. Await the return of accountability and justice.

    If it was anything to do with me, it would involve piano wire, but I'll settle for jail and humiliation for main offenders.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,117
    franklyn said:

    OK folks, serious advice sought.
    How should one plan for the practicalities of a no-deal Brexit?

    Have plenty of cash, but how much?
    Stock up on prescription medicines (for my wife, I am not on any)
    Stock up on toiletries, loo roll, batteries, light bulbs, printer ink, etc
    Stock up on tinned and dried foods,
    Planting winter vegetables
    Get bicycle serviced (in case petrol runs unavailable)


    What else should we all be doing before its too late

    Buy a hand-pump water filter?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131
    Fenman said:

    Perhaps pineapple would help
    :D
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131
    HYUFD said:

    Glasgow remember voted for independence even in 2014, Edinburgh and Aberdeen still back the Union and oppose independence even on this poll.

    Former rural traditional SNP seats like Moray now have a Tory MP
    Clock is ticking though
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,702
    Mango said:

    Compile list of names. Bide time. Await the return of accountability and justice.

    If it was anything to do with me, it would involve piano wire, but I'll settle for jail and humiliation for main offenders.
    That seems rather harsh treatment, just for blocking Brexit.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131
    TOPPING said:

    Erratum: lying, hypocritical, duplicitous, dishonourable fuckers.
    one sheep Topping
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131

    Must admit, I hadn't really anticipated the highlands being less pro-independence than their cousins in the central belt.
    As per elsewhere the Highlands are mostly populated by retired rich English immigrants, so not surprising.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131
    HYUFD said:

    We won the World Cup and only the first test
    Stole the World Cup you mean
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,131

    Never been to Stonehaven then? The chippy there claims to be the place it was invented. There are also at least two chippies in Aberdeen that sell them.

    But yes it is a terrible stereotype based on a couple of strange examples.
    Richard , certainly not been up that way in a long time, but certainly an abomination for sure whoever thought it up.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Including Don't Knows Ashcroft poll has Yes only on 46%, the Scottish borders and rural Scotland still heavily No.

    There's no geographic breakdown in the poll tables. That map is pure Uniform Swing.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    IanB2 said:

    Which is of no relevance at all.

    I doubt Ashcroft’s subsamples are very reliable, but it is interesting that the former Labour Central belt now appears keener on Indy than the old SNP stronghold of the rural North East.
    That map is just uniform swing based on the poll. It is really, really not a projection.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    felix said:

    loking at that map it seems like the Borders may well be keen to become part of England rather than head for the Scexit :)

    Hi

    What odds would you like on the Borders succeeding from Scotland within 10 years of independence?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    dixiedean said:

    Corbyn is responsible for the rise in Scottish independence now? That's a new one. Nowt to do with the Tories or Brexit, no siree. The Scots yearn to be free from the yoke of the, err, leader of the opposition.
    Also it was the Milibland Labour Party who happily campaigned with the Tories for Better Together, arguably the thing that broke many Scottish Labour voters away from the party.
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