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ITV News has just published the above – one of the first executive act by Leader of the House, Moggsy.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

Primus inter pares.

JBriskinindyref2

LOL - Smithson going large on the big news of the day!!!

surbiton19

What a pr1ck ! That's not allowed also, I'm sure.

SouthamObserver

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

TheScreamingEagles

This is why the Oxford comma is important.

eek

I spy deleted posts.

As I said before it was so rudely taken away

If you give 0.0254 metres someone (TSE) will take 1609.34m

JBriskinindyref2

I, like Mike, picked out the Esq as the outlier.

MikeSmithson

https://twitter.com/DPMcBride/status/1154796859904417792?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

RobD

surbiton19 said:

What a pr1ck ! That's not allowed also, I'm sure.

Why is it not allowed?

dixiedean

I wonder if JRM slipped on his long johns and a woollen undershirt yesterday, when he heard temperatures were in the mid-thirties?

Chris

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

dixiedean

Boris "absolutely rules out an election" in Birmingham.
Nailed on then.

JBriskinindyref2

I'm always saying Ms on here; you may have noticed.

But is he saying there's to be a dot for Mrs?

RobD

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

What does Debretts have to say on the matter?

ydoethur

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

No_Offence_Alan

So, can Jacob Rees-Mogg,Esq. tell me whether "data is" or "data are" is the correct form?

Chris

And when he says "no comma after 'and'," does he mean "no comma before 'and'"?

Affected and, incompetent.

ydoethur

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

So again, he's wrong, it should not be attached to anyone who can be called 'MP'.

RobD

Chris said:

And when he says "no comma after 'and'," does he mean "no comma before 'and'"?

Affected and, incompetent.

Some may be uneducated enough to put a comma after and.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/KarenAttiah/status/1154713773409800193

alex.

dixiedean said:

Boris "absolutely rules out an election" in Birmingham.
Nailed on then.

Million to one against.

JBriskinindyref2

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

OblitusSumMe

The double space after full stops is probably the most controversial.

This does seem likely to be the classic tactic for this government. Distract with something ridiculous, but unimportant, allowing the substantive news to go relatively unchallenged.

ydoethur

JBriskinindyref2 said:

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

When computers came in instead of typewriters. It was left in TYPED documents in case an asterisk needed to be inserted for an erratam slip. But publishers never used it and computers made that redundant.

Chris

RobD said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

What does Debretts have to say on the matter?

According to the BBC Debrett's said it was old-fashioned and only ever to be used on a envelope:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8160778.stm

Gallowgate

JBriskinindyref2 said:

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

It only really made sense with fixed width fonts such as Courier. Modern fonts already automatically space the letters and words appropriately.

rural_voter

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

AndyJS

I don't think the average voter is going to give two figs about Rees-Mogg's style guide.

Gallowgate

HTML ignores double spaces. God bless the internet.

ydoethur

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

JBriskinindyref2

ydoethur said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

When computers came in instead of typewriters. It was left in TYPED documents in case an asterisk needed to be inserted for an erratam slip. But publishers never used it and computers made that redundant.

Yes well I was taught on a word processor - Someone should have let me know earlier.

eek

JBriskinindyref2 said:

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

It was 2 spaces when using a typewriter. Nowadays it's one as most software packages assume 2 is a mistake.

Gallowgate

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

TOPPING

Every MP I know tears their hair out and spends many hours correcting the grammar and language of their civil servants.

Richard_Tyndall

I am genuinely split on this. I am delighted that someone has tried to instil some rigour into written submissions but agree entirely that doing so as a new minister who already has the sort of reputation that JRM has is just asking to be mocked.

I am, however, shocked that he has taken so vociferously against the poor old Oxford comma. Particularly as he studied there. Very poor form.

ydoethur

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

surbiton19

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

ydoethur

TOPPING said:

Every MP I know tears their hair out and spends many hours correcting the grammar and language of their civil servants.

You should see what the uncivil masters I have at whetaver the DfES is called this week write.

Edit - I love that I have myself made a typo...

ydoethur

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

SouthamObserver

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

They use some, of course - but their language is metres, centimetres, litres, etc, not inches, feet and pints.

They would not be able to tell you how many yards in a mile, whereas I would know immediately. I do not know what my weight is in kilos, or my height is in metres. The opposite would apply to them.

AndyJS

I wish more polls were being published. YouGov used to do one 6 days a week IIRC.

Gallowgate

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

They use some, of course - but their language is metres, centimetres, litres, etc, not inches, feet and pints.

They would not be able to tell you how many yards in a mile, whereas I would know immediately. I do not know what my weight is in kilos, or my height is in metres. The opposite would apply to them.

I was born in 1992 and this applies to me too.

surbiton19

AndyJS said:

I wish more polls were being published. YouGov used to do one 6 days a week IIRC.

Will they be in metric or imperial ?

FF43

JBriskinindyref2 said:

ydoethur said:

He's wrong anyway. It's one space after a full stop.

I was taught two. I presume that's out of fashion now? When did that happen?

Typesetters never double spaced. Maybe typists did.

ydoethur

surbiton19 said:

AndyJS said:

I wish more polls were being published. YouGov used to do one 6 days a week IIRC.

Will they be in metric or imperial ?

Are you asking what the point is?

Chris

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

"Noble descent"? Originally it was simply the squire who waited on a knight - well below "noble." But in any case it's never been correctly applied to the entire male population.

Gallowgate

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

Only the big or tiny bottles of milk are sold in pints. More and more brands are now selling them in 2L or 1L bottles. Nut and other milk alternatives especially.

rcs1000

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

The UK uses a charming mix of metric and imperial.

Wine comes in 750ml bottles.

Beer comes in pints.

When the temperature is cold, we measure relative to the freezing point of water. But when it's hot, many of us switch into Farenheit.

If we're going on a long journey, then the distance is in miles. If we're measuring the length of a beetle, then w're going to be using centimeters and milimeters.

That is the British way. Charmingly inconsistent.

ydoethur

Chris said:

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

"Noble descent"? Originally it was simply the squire who waited on a knight - well below "noble." But in any case it's never been correctly applied to the entire male population.

Even if that were correct, a squire would normally be of noble descent, but not themselves noble - the younger sons of younger sons of knights.

SouthamObserver

Richard_Tyndall said:

I am genuinely split on this. I am delighted that someone has tried to instil some rigour into written submissions but agree entirely that doing so as a new minister who already has the sort of reputation that JRM has is just asking to be mocked.

I am, however, shocked that he has taken so vociferously against the poor old Oxford comma. Particularly as he studied there. Very poor form.

Rees Mogg will be loved for this by all those he wants to be loved by and mocked by all those who he wants to mock him. Overall, it will do exactly what is intended - reinforce his brand.

surbiton19

Is it correct that in the 2016 referendum the Leave side received 51 7/10 of the votes ?

rcs1000

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

You've never bought wine or spirits by the bottle?

Richard_Tyndall

SouthamObserver said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

They use some, of course - but their language is metres, centimetres, litres, etc, not inches, feet and pints.

They would not be able to tell you how many yards in a mile, whereas I would know immediately. I do not know what my weight is in kilos, or my height is in metres. The opposite would apply to them.

My kids are taught metric at school and imperial at home. Which I think is the perfect combination, setting them up for life. It is inevitable that, for at least their lifetime, both will be necessary. Most of my children's friends talk about their height and weight in imperial not metric but use metric for most other things.

Gallowgate

rcs1000 said:

But when it's hot, many of us switch into Farenheit.

Not my generation. I don't know anyone between the ages of 20 and 30 who uses Fahrenheit for anything.

TOPPING

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

You typically buy 75cl of wine.

JBriskinindyref2

The Oxford Comma Song-

https://youtu.be/P_i1xk07o4g

ydoethur

rcs1000 said:

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

You've never bought wine or spirits by the bottle?

That's where the reference to 'fermented' grape juice comes from...

rcs1000

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

In California, the school system has recently begun emphasing metric for smaller distances: so my kids have been taught to estimate in both inches and centimetres.

rcs1000

ydoethur said:

rcs1000 said:

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

You've never bought wine or spirits by the bottle?

That's where the reference to 'fermented' grape juice comes from...

Ah, I missed that. Thank you.

Richard_Tyndall

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

ydoethur

rcs1000 said:

ydoethur said:

rcs1000 said:

ydoethur said:

Gallowgate said:

ydoethur said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I'm surprised to learn your children do no travel by road and buy no draught beer.

Yeah we buy beer and cider in pints but pretty much no other liquids. "A pint" is a simply a unit of measure for alcoholic drinks in the same vein as a "shot".

Regarding roads, the sooner we switch to km/hr the better.

Milk.

In fact I think the only liquid I buy in metric is fruit juice - apple, orange and grape (sometimes fermented).

You've never bought wine or spirits by the bottle?

That's where the reference to 'fermented' grape juice comes from...

Ah, I missed that. Thank you.

I only drink fruit juice. Apple, Orange and Grape.

It's just sometimes the apple and grape juices are called other things.

Gallowgate

Richard_Tyndall said:

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

Except that is not the case. I work in engineering, in biopharma specifically, and even in American companies the inch is being phased out for the millimetre.

Richard_Tyndall

SouthamObserver said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

I am genuinely split on this. I am delighted that someone has tried to instil some rigour into written submissions but agree entirely that doing so as a new minister who already has the sort of reputation that JRM has is just asking to be mocked.

I am, however, shocked that he has taken so vociferously against the poor old Oxford comma. Particularly as he studied there. Very poor form.

Rees Mogg will be loved for this by all those he wants to be loved by and mocked by all those who he wants to mock him. Overall, it will do exactly what is intended - reinforce his brand.

But I want to do both. I love him for doing it, partly because I value that sort of rigour in writing (even though I am rubbish at it myself) but also in part because it allows me to mock him.

rural_voter

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

Why's it widely used though? We went decimal in 1971 and metric around the same time except for the pint and mile. Those units carried on because UKIP members or whatever they were called (the Monday Club?) weren't prepared to accept that it was the late 20th.C.

Canada went metric to the point that all its road signs are in km and beer is in litres. However, they kept the pint glass so if you order a pint you're now getting 0.568 litres.

JackW

Point of Order Mr Smithson.

JRM is now a Privy Councillor so is now The Right Honourable Member as opposed to Honourable Member or Total Member ....

FF43

I am not convinced Johnson's strategem of blaming the EU for intransigence is working.

To work people have to think the Irish backstop is egregiously unreasonable. I don't believe most people know what it is. They might think, why don't you get on with it?

solarflare

The only time I heard anyone ever use the term Esquire was Bill S. Preston Esq., one half of Bill & Ted...

Gallowgate

rural_voter said:

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

Why's it widely used though? We went decimal in 1971 and metric around the same time except for the pint and mile. Those units carried on because UKIP members or whatever they were called (the Monday Club?) weren't prepared to accept that it was the late 20th.C.

Canada went metric to the point that all its road signs are in km and beer is in litres. However, they kept the pint glass so if you order a pint you're now getting 0.568 litres.

It's like refusing to use an iPad because you didn't grow up with them.

JBriskinindyref2

You buy MDF in centimetres by the foot - Industry standard

MikeSmithson

AndyJS said:

I wish more polls were being published. YouGov used to do one 6 days a week IIRC.

Polls need clients and YouGov would do a daily poll again if one of their customers was ready to pay.

rcs1000

JBriskinindyref2 said:

You buy MDF in centimetres by the foot - Industry standard

What is "centimetres by the foot"?

Richard_Tyndall

rural_voter said:

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

Why's it widely used though? We went decimal in 1971 and metric around the same time except for the pint and mile. Those units carried on because UKIP members or whatever they were called (the Monday Club?) weren't prepared to accept that it was the late 20th.C.

Canada went metric to the point that all its road signs are in km and beer is in litres. However, they kept the pint glass so if you order a pint you're now getting 0.568 litres.

Its widely used because in many ways it is a more convenient measure. Not least because our infrastructure was all built in imperial and retro fitting it to metric is not practical.

Gallowgate

In other news, it looks like Sports Direct is having problems. Fantastic.

JBriskinindyref2

Gallowgate said:

rural_voter said:

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

Why's it widely used though? We went decimal in 1971 and metric around the same time except for the pint and mile. Those units carried on because UKIP members or whatever they were called (the Monday Club?) weren't prepared to accept that it was the late 20th.C.

Canada went metric to the point that all its road signs are in km and beer is in litres. However, they kept the pint glass so if you order a pint you're now getting 0.568 litres.

It's like refusing to use an iPad because you didn't grow up with them.

iPads are crap. I can't deal with any sort of touchscreen and theirs is no better.

Bring back the Blackberry (or Nokia alternatives)

NickPalmer

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I don't especially care which measurement system we use, but petrol always strikes me as the classic halfway house. We all buy it in liters, but when we buy cars we are told how many liters the tank will hold and how many miles per gallon they do. Thus the question "How far can I go before I have to refill?" can only be answered using mental arithmetic.

ydoethur

rural_voter said:

ydoethur said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

I was taught metric in school. I teach in metric, if it comes to that. But I tend to use imperial for personal preference as I find it easier for division (and moreover, it's more widely used). It's harder to multiply, but I only really do that for distances and they're in miles anyway.

Why's it widely used though? We went decimal in 1971 and metric around the same time except for the pint and mile. Those units carried on because UKIP members or whatever they were called (the Monday Club?) weren't prepared to accept that it was the late 20th.C.

Canada went metric to the point that all its road signs are in km and beer is in litres. However, they kept the pint glass so if you order a pint you're now getting 0.568 litres.

Because they are widely used. It's a question of inertia. I think also it varies according to where you live. Ask for 500g of steak in Cannock or Dursley and you will get a blank look, even though by law that's what they have to sell it in.

Personally I don't find metric easier to use than imperial. Easier to multiply, yes, but a bugger for division at more than a basic level. Nor does it bother me overmuch.

El_Capitano

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

But when it's hot, many of us switch into Farenheit.

Not my generation. I don't know anyone between the ages of 20 and 30 who uses Fahrenheit for anything.

I don’t know anyone in their 40s who does, either.

surbiton19

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

But when it's hot, many of us switch into Farenheit.

Not my generation. I don't know anyone between the ages of 20 and 30 who uses Fahrenheit for anything.

In fact, yesterday I had to be reminded that 38C was over 100F. 30 years ago I would have converted the C into F myself to understand. Today, I can instinctively realise the "heat" from the C number. Germany going through 42C+, well that's like the Gulf.

ydoethur

JackW said:

Point of Order Mr Smithson.

JRM is now a Privy Councillor so is now The Right Honourable Member as opposed to Honourable Member or Total Member ....

I agree with the 'member' part of that.

He isn't right and he's not notable for being honourable.

JBriskinindyref2

rcs1000 said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

You buy MDF in centimetres by the foot - Industry standard

What is "centimetres by the foot"?

Okay for starters - I think I meant millimeters

The length on both sides are by feet/foot whatever the imperial term is.

The width is in millimeters

AlastairMeeks

What are his views on decimal currency?

JBriskinindyref2

JBriskinindyref2 said:

rcs1000 said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

You buy MDF in centimetres by the foot - Industry standard

What is "centimetres by the foot"?

Okay for starters - I think I meant millimeters

The length on both sides are by feet/foot whatever the imperial term is.

The width is in millimeters

So you would order something like 3' by 2' by 25mm

Gallowgate

ydoethur said:

Because they are widely used. It's a question of inertia. I think also it varies according to where you live. Ask for 500g of steak in Cannock or Dursley and you will get a blank look, even though by law that's what they have to sell it in.

Personally I don't find metric easier to use than imperial. Easier to multiply, yes, but a bugger for division at more than a basic level. Nor does it bother me overmuch.

My generation knows how big a 6 oz or 12 oz steak is based on what it looks like on a plate but good luck getting us to identify how heavy anything else is in ounces.

Gyms have used kgs for years, for example.

Kilograms and grams are now so ingrained for almost everything save human weight and even that is changing slowly.

Chris

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

"Noble descent"? Originally it was simply the squire who waited on a knight - well below "noble." But in any case it's never been correctly applied to the entire male population.

Even if that were correct, a squire would normally be of noble descent, but not themselves noble - the younger sons of younger sons of knights.

Of course it's correct - that's the literal meaning of the word "squire"!

And a knight isn't "noble," and a squire isn't the younger son of the younger son of a knight. But still, in a world in which Boris Johnson is prime minister ...

ydoethur

NickPalmer said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I don't especially care which measurement system we use, but petrol always strikes me as the classic halfway house. We all buy it in liters, but when we buy cars we are told how many liters the tank will hold and how many miles per gallon they do. Thus the question "How far can I go before I have to refill?" can only be answered using mental arithmetic.

So at least one basic mathematical skill we still use?

But this sort of thing can have rather serious consequences, as in this famous case:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

AndyJS

How on earth did we get to a position where Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg are viewed by many voters as a breath of fresh air? That's a big indictment of the people who've been running the country for the last few years IMO.

OblitusSumMe

I'm a scientist by training and would never think of using imperial measurements for anything scientific, or technical. However, for personal use, such as baking, or knitting, I find that imperial measurements are more human-friendly and convenient to use.

I'm very happy to use metric for science and engineering and imperial for day to day life.

Richard_Tyndall

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

Except that is not the case. I work in engineering, in biopharma specifically, and even in American companies the inch is being phased out for the millimetre.

As I said, the oil industry all works in non metric. At least on the drilling and production side. Even European countries tend to work in non metric units - feet, inches, barrels, psi etc.

In a few weeks I will be geosteering a well drilling 6" hole horizontally in a formation less than 10ft thick at 10,000 feet below sea level and 25,000 feet away from the tophole location. I will be using the most advanced technology on earth to do this and everything will be measured in non-metric units.

I am not in anyway opposed to metric and happily use it where necessary. But the idea that imperial measurements are disappearing any time soon or that our kids shouldn't know them is simply wrong.

dixiedean

El_Capitano said:

Gallowgate said:

rcs1000 said:

But when it's hot, many of us switch into Farenheit.

Not my generation. I don't know anyone between the ages of 20 and 30 who uses Fahrenheit for anything.

I don’t know anyone in their 40s who does, either.

I'm in my fifties. Had to mentally convert when my mother told me it was 90 in her garden yesterday.

Gallowgate

Richard_Tyndall said:

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

Except that is not the case. I work in engineering, in biopharma specifically, and even in American companies the inch is being phased out for the millimetre.

As I said, the oil industry all works in non metric. At least on the drilling and production side. Even European countries tend to work in non metric units - feet, inches, barrels, psi etc.

In a few weeks I will be geosteering a well drilling 6" hole horizontally in a formation less than 10ft thick at 10,000 feet below sea level and 25,000 feet away from the tophole location. I will be using the most advanced technology on earth to do this and everything will be measured in non-metric units.

I am not in anyway opposed to metric and happily use it where necessary. But the idea that imperial measurements are disappearing any time soon or that our kids shouldn't know them is simply wrong.

Describing the Oil & Gas industry as the most "advanced technology on earth" really destroys your credibility there.

What units do they use in space travel again?

Your advanced technology will do everything in metric and then spit it out in imperial for your pleasure.

Richard_Tyndall

NickPalmer said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I don't especially care which measurement system we use, but petrol always strikes me as the classic halfway house. We all buy it in liters, but when we buy cars we are told how many liters the tank will hold and how many miles per gallon they do. Thus the question "How far can I go before I have to refill?" can only be answered using mental arithmetic.

You see I really like that. Having the ability to do metal maths in that way on the fly is a great skill and I love having the opportunity to do that sort of thing.

Plus I think we should teach kids both and make them convert back and forth just to piss them off once in a while

kinabalu

Kidding aside, this is utter wank from Mogg. He needs to be strapped in a chair and force fed some 2019.

JackW

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Incorrect.

The use of esquire has changed down the ages and in England through the 20th century the term was used to determine a gentleman who may enjoy an office of the crown, in the military or professions. Not being an armiger is not a pre-requisite.

In Scotland order of precedence the title esquire refers to a male above the rank of gentleman who may be descendants of a knight not necessarily an armiger, a laird with a territorial designation or clan chief who is neither a feudal baron or peer.

ydoethur

Chris said:

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

"Noble descent"? Originally it was simply the squire who waited on a knight - well below "noble." But in any case it's never been correctly applied to the entire male population.

Even if that were correct, a squire would normally be of noble descent, but not themselves noble - the younger sons of younger sons of knights.

Of course it's correct - that's the literal meaning of the word "squire"!

And a knight isn't "noble," and a squire isn't the younger son of the younger son of a knight. But still, in a world in which Boris Johnson is prime minister ...

Yes, a knight was considered 'nobility.' And my comment was about their relative social status, not intended as a sign that was what all squires are.

The key thing is, it's not to be used when alternative postnoms are available. For example, I would not be 'Esq' (even if entitled) because I am BA MA PhD PGCE.

SouthamObserver

Richard_Tyndall said:

SouthamObserver said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

I am genuinely split on this. I am delighted that someone has tried to instil some rigour into written submissions but agree entirely that doing so as a new minister who already has the sort of reputation that JRM has is just asking to be mocked.

I am, however, shocked that he has taken so vociferously against the poor old Oxford comma. Particularly as he studied there. Very poor form.

Rees Mogg will be loved for this by all those he wants to be loved by and mocked by all those who he wants to mock him. Overall, it will do exactly what is intended - reinforce his brand.

But I want to do both. I love him for doing it, partly because I value that sort of rigour in writing (even though I am rubbish at it myself) but also in part because it allows me to mock him.

Richard, I think we can agree your views are not necessarily typical!

JBriskinindyref2

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

Except that is not the case. I work in engineering, in biopharma specifically, and even in American companies the inch is being phased out for the millimetre.

As I said, the oil industry all works in non metric. At least on the drilling and production side. Even European countries tend to work in non metric units - feet, inches, barrels, psi etc.

In a few weeks I will be geosteering a well drilling 6" hole horizontally in a formation less than 10ft thick at 10,000 feet below sea level and 25,000 feet away from the tophole location. I will be using the most advanced technology on earth to do this and everything will be measured in non-metric units.

I am not in anyway opposed to metric and happily use it where necessary. But the idea that imperial measurements are disappearing any time soon or that our kids shouldn't know them is simply wrong.

Describing the Oil & Gas industry as the most "advanced technology on earth" really destroys your credibility there.

What units do they use in space travel again?

Your advanced technology will do everything in metric and then spit it out in imperial for your pleasure.

Nope

As per Joinery standards I have tried to explain - they used a mixture of both imperial and metric for space travel.

Gallowgate

radsatser said:

As a baby boomer, like many I grew up with imperial measurement, when metric came I embraced it alongside imperial measurement, seamlessly converting from one to the other on practically a daily basis ever since. We may have become metricated, but the world around us was built using imperial and still has to be dealt with on that basis.

What never fails to amaze is the lack of understanding of even basic metric measurement amongst the young. When helping several younger members of my family with free expertise to make their new homes liveable over the last few years, the simple process of measuring something seems to be a challenge for them. In learning the metric system, they all seem to have been taught with the centimetre as the base measurement, the concept of the millimetre seems to be completely lost on them. Ask them to take the end of a tape and measure something that is 2508mm long, and they will come with something like 258cm. I thought it was a one off aberration, but this week the 14 year old daughter of my niece went through the same torturous mental gymnastics to come up with the wrong answer, but this incorrect use of the centimetre as the base unit of measurement stretches across generations ranging from 14 to 36.

Of course they all know their weight and height in imperial measurements, but haven't a clue how heavy or tall they are in metric.

To be fair most rulers and a lot of tape measures call out centimetres and not millimetres.

Gallowgate

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Gallowgate said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

surbiton19 said:

rural_voter said:

SouthamObserver said:

I am pretty comfortable with Imperial measurements and generally use them over metric ones - it just comes more naturally. But I am 55. My kids genuinely would not know how to use them. This is Rees Mogg brand building, nothing more.

I was taught in SI units at school 1968-71 and 50 years later only the USA and some twits in the UK insist on Imperial. Canada, Ireland, Australia, NZ and India are metric. Lord Kelvin in the 19th.C called the Imperial system complete with rods, chains, poles and perches 'brain-destroying'. Quite.

Even the NYSE went decimal a few years ago.

And yet I work in probably one of the most hi-tec industries in the world and everything is done in non metric units. Personally I think it is great to be fluent in both and it really isn't that hard.

Except that is not the case. I work in engineering, in biopharma specifically, and even in American companies the inch is being phased out for the millimetre.

As I said, the oil industry all works in non metric. At least on the drilling and production side. Even European countries tend to work in non metric units - feet, inches, barrels, psi etc.

In a few weeks I will be geosteering a well drilling 6" hole horizontally in a formation less than 10ft thick at 10,000 feet below sea level and 25,000 feet away from the tophole location. I will be using the most advanced technology on earth to do this and everything will be measured in non-metric units.

I am not in anyway opposed to metric and happily use it where necessary. But the idea that imperial measurements are disappearing any time soon or that our kids shouldn't know them is simply wrong.

Describing the Oil & Gas industry as the most "advanced technology on earth" really destroys your credibility there.

What units do they use in space travel again?

Your advanced technology will do everything in metric and then spit it out in imperial for your pleasure.

Nope

As per Joinery standards I have tried to explain - they used a mixture of both imperial and metric for space travel.

What has that got to do with anything? I'm not doubting your joinery knowledge.

NASA has used metric exclusively since the early 90s.

A_View_From_Cumbria5

Chris said:

ydoethur said:

Chris said:

Calling non-titled males "esquire" has never been correct. Traditionally only those with a coat of arms were entitled to be called "esquire." It's just an ignorant affectation.

Strictly speaking, it's used for those of noble descent without other post-nominals.

"Noble descent"? Originally it was simply the squire who waited on a knight - well below "noble." But in any case it's never been correctly applied to the entire male population.

As someone who spend too much time transcribing 16th and 17th C court documents I can throw a little light on this. The order was generally Lord, in various degrees, Marquis etc; then Knight with Knight of the Bath being above the others. Esquires were the next step down and a step above Gentleman. A gentleman was meant to be able to provide for his family without recourse to manual work. For an Esquire the family wealth was meant to provide for the well-being.

The aversion to Mr was that that was a form of address that was used to social superiors. As with A levels there was a form of grade inflation so eventually even common servants were addressed as Mr - hence the need to use Esq. Even that was then degraded, so really JRM is trying to impose the style of the 1920s.

Chris

According to ITV, there's also a list of banned words and phrases, including "very", "equal", "yourself", "speculate", "ascertain" and "disappointment".

The man must be certifiably insane.