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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    edited July 2019
    https://labourantisemitism.wixsite.com/lamp

    Interactive map of reported Labour AS incidents.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    It might well be I simply enjoy wine more on holiday but would rate Spanish and French wine I drink locally out there as better than most New World wines I drink in the UK.

    However if choosing a wine sub £8 in a UK supermarket I think New World is typically better than European, above £8 not much difference either way.

    That's apples and oranges. Compare New World in UK vs Europe in UK and I agree completely New World wins.

    Comparing European in Europe to New World in UK is unreasonable, unless you then compare New World in New World to Europe in UK too.
    Agreed! Not been to Chile/Argentina yet, in Australia can't remember thinking the wine was particularly special but would have been on a budget when I went, so couldnt complete the analysis yet. Hope to be able to do so sooner or later!
    I think the nationality and grape combination makes a big difference with New World as a rule of thumb. You can't go wrong with a good Australia Shiraz which is normally my trusted go to. But just had a really nice Argentinian Malbec and I think that might be my new favourite.
    We are finding common ground! Argentian Malbec, Chilean Merlot, Australian Shiraz, NZ Sauvignon Blanc, Italian Pinot Grigio.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    I know that Trump's vile tweets are the story of the day.

    But Labour's attempt to delegitimise the EHRC is an equally important story and just as worrying. It's the idea that any independent organisation which criticises Labour or its leadership should be attacked and can only be acting out of malice or for bad motives. It is of a par with the attacks on the whistleblowers or on the BBC (and the attempt to try and remove the programme from BBC iPlayer) and, indeed, on anyone who makes any sort of complaint at all. It creates the idea that there can be no valid criticism. From that it is not that big a leap to not accepting the idea of a legitimate opposition at all.

    We can do nothing about Trump. We can and should do something about a party here which is contemptuous of any sort of independent scrutiny.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Cyclefree said:


    We assume far too easily that progress can go in only one way - that rights won won't be lost.
    Grrr......!!

    It's very easy to assume progress can only go in one direction but the fall of Rome and human spaceflight post Apollo (50 years ago Collins, Aldrin and Armstrong were on their way to the moon !) are two big counterexamples I can think of. Same goes for gay rights.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:


    We assume far too easily that progress can go in only one way - that rights won won't be lost.
    Grrr......!!

    It's very easy to assume progress can only go in one direction but the fall of Rome and human spaceflight post Apollo (50 years ago Collins, Aldrin and Armstrong were on their way to the moon !) are two big counterexamples I can think of. Same goes for gay rights.
    On the other hand, I don't think I've ever been more optimistic about the future of human spacetravel.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:


    We assume far too easily that progress can go in only one way - that rights won won't be lost.
    Grrr......!!

    It's very easy to assume progress can only go in one direction but the fall of Rome and human spaceflight post Apollo (50 years ago Collins, Aldrin and Armstrong were on their way to the moon !) are two big counterexamples I can think of. Same goes for gay rights.
    And rights for women. And free speech. Etc.

    We are far too blasé about such rights. If we don't defend them and fight for them, we risk losing them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:


    We assume far too easily that progress can go in only one way - that rights won won't be lost.
    Grrr......!!

    It's very easy to assume progress can only go in one direction but the fall of Rome and human spaceflight post Apollo (50 years ago Collins, Aldrin and Armstrong were on their way to the moon !) are two big counterexamples I can think of. Same goes for gay rights.
    Read this over the weekend, utterly depressing.

    Gay conversion therapy works and I’ve given it, says Israeli education minister.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gay-conversion-therapy-israel-minister-rafi-peretz-lgbt-netanyahu-a9004396.html
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Watching Panorama, what is it with the Abrahamic religions and homophobia :p

    What's the topic this time?
    Parkfield School protests etc. Looked like it had been really tough on Andrew Moffat, obviously my comment about the religions was tongue in cheek (mostly) as the various tomes were written between 1400 and 2600 odd years ago - so anyone with a brain should realise the social attitudes expressed in them were *ahem* of the time. Well you'd hope so anyway but sadly it seems not everyone does.
    I should watch. But I find it hard to do so without getting so furious. Not just at the protestors and other bigots but at the feeble people in charge who won't stand up for what is right. How hard is this?

    We assume far too easily that progress can go in only one way - that rights won won't be lost. When there is far too much evidence that this is not the case. And cases like this show us how easily this can happen, as has happened in other countries.

    Grrr......!!
    A point which is getting lost is that a genuine 'No Outsiders' programme must ensure that it does not accidentally make 'Outsiders' of minorities with strongly held convictions which go against mainstream opinion. Progressives can sometimes give the impression that their benign tolerance extends to everyone who shares their worldview. Being open to all shades of opinion is difficult - as the extremist bigots show only too well. But what about quiet thoughtful people, religious or non-religious, who don't share every detail of the progressive moral code?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    NEW THREAD

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    It might well be I simply enjoy wine more on holiday but would rate Spanish and French wine I drink locally out there as better than most New World wines I drink in the UK.

    However if choosing a wine sub £8 in a UK supermarket I think New World is typically better than European, above £8 not much difference either way.

    That's apples and oranges. Compare New World in UK vs Europe in UK and I agree completely New World wins.

    Comparing European in Europe to New World in UK is unreasonable, unless you then compare New World in New World to Europe in UK too.
    Agreed! Not been to Chile/Argentina yet, in Australia can't remember thinking the wine was particularly special but would have been on a budget when I went, so couldnt complete the analysis yet. Hope to be able to do so sooner or later!
    I think the nationality and grape combination makes a big difference with New World as a rule of thumb. You can't go wrong with a good Australia Shiraz which is normally my trusted go to. But just had a really nice Argentinian Malbec and I think that might be my new favourite.
    We are finding common ground! Argentian Malbec, Chilean Merlot, Australian Shiraz, NZ Sauvignon Blanc, Italian Pinot Grigio.
    100% agreed!

    Especially since you said Italian Pinot Grigio and not Prosecco.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plus the idea the PM can be put in place and removed too in an afternoon is absurd

    No it isn't. The PM would be PM to do a single thing, to ask for an extension. There's no majority in the HoC for anything else.

    The question Corbyn has is a simple one: would he accept a figurehead, especially one who wasn't standing in the upcoming election, becoming PM?

    Now, I'm sure he'd like it to be him. He is, after all, a vain man. way.
    You are forgetting that according to Yougov if we go to No Brexit we get Farage as PM, not Corbyn and dozens of Labour Leave seats in the North and Midlands would fall to the Brexit Party

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/21/delivering-brexit-will-do-more-boost-conservative-
    How does a best case hypothetical scenario of 24% for the Brexit Party (with Boris as leader) mean Farage becomes PM? The numbers in that poll are much more likely to deliver a majority for Labour/LDs/SNP in some combination.
    Electoral Calculus gives the Brexit Party 283 seats TLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=%28none%29&boundary=2017base
    Based on a more realistic model the Brexit Party and Tories would be well short of a majority. Try putting the numbers into this:

    https://flavible.com/politics/map/user_predictions.php?sid=14
    Actually even that model gives the Brexit Party 218 and the Tories 89 and more than Labour the LDs and SNP combined

    https://flavible.com/politics/map/user_predictions.php?sid=14
    BXP: 218
    Labour: 143
    Lib Dems: 126
    Tories: 89
    SNP: 51

    Labour + Lib Dems + SNP is more than BXP + Tories.
    Brexit Party plus Tories plus DUP = 317.

    Labour plus LDs plus SNP = 320 so even on your less favourable model to the Brexit Party Farage less than 10 seats from being PM, well within the margin of error
    What do you think the impact of anti-Farage tactical voting would be in an election in which he stood a chance of having the largest party?
    It would have an impact in Remain seats in the inner cities and university towns especially but the Brexit Party would not win those anyway, in strong Leave seats the Brexit Party would stand a good chance of winning if Brexit is not delivered it would be negligible
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:



    Yep.

    One of the biggest things that private schools do is put a high floor on the downward mobility of less able kids of affluent parents.

    No, they make them polite, presentable and good team players with plenty of sport etc even if they are not of the highest them more employable
    I don't think our country is crying out for more nice well spoken chaps who like rugby but are a tiny bit thick.
    Well I would far rather have more of them than more unemployable, rude louts or young people who spends half their time in gangs roaming the streets
    I despair.
    Which tells us everything we need to know about the left, they would rather be motivated by envy and drag down those trying to do the best for their children in private schools than raise standards for those of average ability in state schools
    That is ridiculous the party I support introduced the pupil premium to try and target educational spend where it is needed I’m not left wing but I think that you Conservative party that used to believe in equality of opportunity has become a disgrace.
    Well I think your party that opposed grammar schools and refuses to respect the Leave vote of 17 million people is even more of a disgrace, so there you go
    Coming from the supporter of the party who’s education secretary closed more grammar schools than anyone else. Can you give my five positives of the secondary modern school in the 70’s?
    It was Shirley Williams who set the ball rolling on that, more grammar schools were in place when the Tories left office in 1997 than when Thatcher arrived in 1979.

    The problem was the improve the standards of secondary moderns not to close the excellent grammar schools and in selective Buckinghamshire there are now many excellent high schools
    If you think either Buckinghamshire or Kent a good model for English education, you are even more delusional that I thought you.

    (And I am not in favour of abolishing either grammar schools or private ones.)
    Buckinghamshire has amongst the best GCSE results in the country
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It was Shirley Williams who set the ball rolling on that, more grammar schools were in place when the Tories left office in 1997 than when Thatcher arrived in 1979.

    There were 261 grammar schools in England in 1979 and 163 in 1997.

    https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/22723/1/SN01398.pdf

    And then you wonder why people laugh at your posts.
    1980 (first full year of Thatcher's premiership) 4% of pupils went to grammars, by 1997 it was 4.2%.

    The number of pupils in grammars rose throughout Thatcher's final term
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    It was Shirley Williams who set the ball rolling on that, more grammar schools were in place when the Tories left office in 1997 than when Thatcher arrived in 1979.

    There were 261 grammar schools in England in 1979 and 163 in 1997.

    https://dera.ioe.ac.uk/22723/1/SN01398.pdf

    And then you wonder why people laugh at your posts.
    1980 (first full year of Thatcher's premiership) 4% of pupils went to grammars, by 1997 it was 4.2%.

    The number of pupils in grammars rose throughout Thatcher's final term
    Mrs Thatcher left power in 1990. There were a third fewer pupils (proportionately) in grammar schools when she left power than when she entered it.

    In her last stretch, the three years between 1987 and 1990, there was a marginal uptick in the proportion of children. But this was despite a falling number of grammar schools and mostly simply reflects the fact that the number of children of school age was falling at the time.

    Your attempt to spin data that says the exact opposite of your claims is laughable.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    HYUFD said:
    But he won't commit not just to leaving by October but to leaving this year.

    #HasToNotBeHunt
    31st October is just an arbitrary date. There is no reason why it has to be then rather than 14th November or 1st January.

    It represents nothing other than a date plucked out of thin air. It has no special qualities.
    Then why did the EU pick it? Why did May agree to it? Why did the Commons agree to it?

    What's going to change by 14/11 or 1/1?
    iirc it was a compromise date with Macron.
    Doesn’t the new EU commmission start on 1st November?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:



    Yep.

    One of the biggest things that private schools do is put a high floor on the downward mobility of less able kids of affluent parents.

    No, they make them polite, presentable and good team players with plenty of sport etc even if they are not of the highest them more employable
    I don't think our country is crying out for more nice well spoken chaps who like rugby but are a tiny bit thick.
    Well I would far rather have more of them than more unemployable, rude louts or young people who spends half their time in gangs roaming the streets
    I despair.
    Which tells us everything we need to know about the left, they would rather be motivated by envy and drag down those trying to do the best for their children in private schools than raise standards for those of average ability in state schools
    That is ridiculous the party I support introduced the pupil premium to try and target educational spend where it is needed I’m not left wing but I think that you Conservative party that used to believe in equality of opportunity has become a disgrace.
    Well I think your party that opposed grammar schools and refuses to respect the Leave vote of 17 million people is even more of a disgrace, so there you go
    Coming from the supporter of the party who’s education secretary closed more grammar schools than anyone else. Can you give my five positives of the secondary modern school in the 70’s?
    It was Shirley Williams who set the ball rolling on that, more grammar schools were in place when the Tories left office in 1997 than when Thatcher arrived in 1979.

    The problem was the improve the standards of secondary moderns not to close the excellent grammar schools and in selective Buckinghamshire there are now many excellent high schools
    If you think either Buckinghamshire or Kent a good model for English education, you are even more delusional that I thought you.

    (And I am not in favour of abolishing either grammar schools or private ones.)
    Buckinghamshire has amongst the best GCSE results in the country
    Yes but the best improvement from KS3 to 16+ is in the comprehensives like Great Marlow, NOT the Grammars, who get the best pupils but don't do a whole lot with them.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    I’m curious about those who are claiming that the only chance of the Dems winning is to nominate someone like Biden. How do they explain Obama’s two easy victories in 2008 and 2012? Certainly wasn’t due to having Joe on the ticket.
This discussion has been closed.