Yet you argue that “No Deal” will be “smooth and orderly” and somehow result in a “deep and special partnership”!
No I don't, I still want a Brexit Deal but as the current Commons clearly refuses to pass one to respect the Leave vote in 2016 No Deal it will have to be unless the Tories can get a majority to pass a Deal before October 31st.
The Tories manifesto commitment was clear we would leave the EU, ideally in a smooth or orderly fashion but nonetheless to Leave regardless
There’s no “ideally” about it. Delivering a smooth and orderly transition was an explicit commitment. And not by an arbitrarily imposed deadline either.
'We will take Britain out of the European Union' was an explicit Tory manifesto commitment, now that could be in a 'smooth and orderly' way with May's Deal but Parliament thrice rejected that so it will have to be with the most 'smooth and orderly' managed No Deal instead if Parliament still refuses to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement
If Parliament won't vote for it, that is, by definition, evidence that the Tory manifesto (even as twisted to support your interpretation) didn't have a majority to pass. You acknowledge that for every other thing in it, so it is illogical to claim that this is somehow different.
There will have been Tory MPs who made firm pledges to their constituents that they would only leave with a deal. They are under no obligation to support No deal, and that would defy the basis on which they were elected.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
Yet you argue that “No Deal” will be “smooth and orderly” and somehow result in a “deep and special partnership”!
No I don't, I still want a Brexit Deal but as the current Commons clearly refuses to pass one to respect the Leave vote in 2016 No Deal it will have to be unless the Tories can get a majority to pass a Deal before October 31st.
The Tories manifesto commitment was clear we would leave the EU, ideally in a smooth or orderly fashion but nonetheless to Leave regardless
There’s no “ideally” about it. Delivering a smooth and orderly transition was an explicit commitment. And not by an arbitrarily imposed deadline either.
'We will take Britain out of the European Union' was an explicit Tory manifesto commitment, now that could be in a 'smooth and orderly' way with May's Deal but Parliament thrice rejected that so it will have to be with the most 'smooth and orderly' managed No Deal instead if Parliament still refuses to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement
If Parliament won't vote for it, that is, by definition, evidence that the Tory manifesto (even as twisted to support your interpretation) didn't have a majority to pass. You acknowledge that for every other thing in it, so it is illogical to claim that this is somehow different.
There will have been Tory MPs who made firm pledges to their constituents that they would only leave with a deal. They are under no obligation to support No deal, and that would defy the basis on which they were elected.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, anyone who has voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and against No Deal has refused to do so
Nit that it would have made a difference in that review but is there a reason hotspot isn't used anymore?
It isn't very reliable. For example, it would have given that not out. It was only used because Snicko used to take too long to set up. Now it can be made available quickly, Hotspot's been ditched.
It's easy to use "but democracy" to support any position you want.
You could argue democracy was under threat from the moment Parliament decided to do everything it could to avoid carrying out the result of the 2016 referendum.
Proroguing Parliament to force no deal is also, as Mr Meeks points out, an outrage to democracy.
But what I want to know is, if we have a second referendum, at which the result is narrowly to remain - say 52/48, then a year after the second referendum we have a general election at which the Brexit Party wins a majority with 40% of the vote on a manifesto pledge to leave more immediately, do they have a democratic mandate to do so?
Yes, just as a post Brexit election delivering a mandate to a party committed to rejoin is democratic. We are a parliamentary democracy.
While I'm inclined to agree with you and everyone else who answered yes, with one party committed to leaving the EU immediately deal or no deal (probably the latter), the threshold for achieving a no-deal-diamond-hard-brexit is probably only about 40% of the country at the next GE, perhaps even less under a four way split.
Technically it's how our democracy works, but I think most would be howling with outrage if it came to pass.
Labour won a 66 seat majority on 35% of the vote in 2005. We've since had a referendum at which 68% supported First Past The Post.
Whatever the outcome of the next GE, there can be no complaints.
Are we really saying we're comfortable with the idea that if 35% of the population are committed to and vote for no-deal-diamond-hard brexit at the next GE, then that's what we do?
At that point I would suggest that democracy in the UK is completely broken. Doubly so if it comes after a second referendum where there is a narrow majority for remaining.
It's easy to use "but democracy" to support any position you want.
You could argue democracy was under threat from the moment Parliament decided to do everything it could to avoid carrying out the result of the 2016 referendum.
Proroguing Parliament to force no deal is also, as Mr Meeks points out, an outrage to democracy.
But what I want to know is, if we have a second referendum, at which the result is narrowly to remain - say 52/48, then a year after the second referendum we have a general election at which the Brexit Party wins a majority with 40% of the vote on a manifesto pledge to leave more immediately, do they have a democratic mandate to do so?
Yes, just as a post Brexit election delivering a mandate to a party committed to rejoin is democratic. We are a parliamentary democracy.
While I'm inclined to agree with you and everyone else who answered yes, with one party committed to leaving the EU immediately deal or no deal (probably the latter), the threshold for achieving a no-deal-diamond-hard-brexit is probably only about 40% of the country at the next GE, perhaps even less under a four way split.
Technically it's how our democracy works, but I think most would be howling with outrage if it came to pass.
Labour won a 66 seat majority on 35% of the vote in 2005. We've since had a referendum at which 68% supported First Past The Post.
Whatever the outcome of the next GE, there can be no complaints.
Are we really saying we're comfortable with the idea that if 35% of the population are committed to and vote for no-deal-diamond-hard brexit at the next GE, then that's what we do?
At that point I would suggest that democracy in the UK is completely broken. Doubly so if it comes after a second referendum where there is a narrow majority for remaining.
MPs have had plenty of opportunities to avoid a no-deal Brexit. If they can't see what we can see as a possibility, that's their problem.
Yet you argue that “No Deal” will be “smooth and orderly” and somehow result in a “deep and special partnership”!
No I don't, I still want a Brexit Deal but as the current Commons clearly refuses to pass one to respect the Leave vote in 2016 No Deal it will have to be unless the Tories can get a majority to pass a Deal before October 31st.
The Tories manifesto commitment was clear we would leave the EU, ideally in a smooth or orderly fashion but nonetheless to Leave regardless
There’s no “ideally” about it. Delivering a smooth and orderly transition was an explicit commitment. And not by an arbitrarily imposed deadline either.
'We will take Britain out of the European Union' was an explicit Tory manifesto commitment, now that could be in a 'smooth and orderly' way with May's Deal but Parliament thrice rejected that so it will have to be with the most 'smooth and orderly' managed No Deal instead if Parliament still refuses to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement
If Parliament won't vote for it, that is, by definition, evidence that the Tory manifesto (even as twisted to support your interpretation) didn't have a majority to pass. You acknowledge that for every other thing in it, so it is illogical to claim that this is somehow different.
There will have been Tory MPs who made firm pledges to their constituents that they would only leave with a deal. They are under no obligation to support No deal, and that would defy the basis on which they were elected.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, anyone who has voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and against No Deal has refused to do so
What it actually said was: "Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver: The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit."
She's had her time away at the camp, and we can report that the re-education programme has been successful.
Amber Rudd, what was it about Boris Johnson's forthcoming Cabinet of only Brexiteers that made you change your mind on Brexit and 2nd vote?
I guess she thinks it very likely she will lose her seat at the next GE and unlikely to get senior roles in the future so staying in cabinet important financially and politicially.
Yet you argue that “No Deal” will be “smooth and orderly” and somehow result in a “deep and special partnership”!
No I don't, I still want a Brexit Deal but as the current Commons clearly refuses to pass one to respect the Leave vote in 2016 No Deal it will have to be unless the Tories can get a majority to pass a Deal before October 31st.
The Tories manifesto commitment was clear we would leave the EU, ideally in a smooth or orderly fashion but nonetheless to Leave regardless
There’s no “ideally” about it. Delivering a smooth and orderly transition was an explicit commitment. And not by an arbitrarily imposed deadline either.
'We will take Britain out of the European Union' was an explicit Tory manifesto commitment, now that could be in reement
If Parliament won't vote for it, that is, by definition, evidence that the Tory manifesto (even as twisted to support your interpretation) didn't have a majority to pass. You acknowledge that for every other thing in it, so it is illogical to claim that this is somehow different.
There will have been Tory MPs who made firm pledges to their constituents that they would only leave with a deal. They are under no obligation to support No deal, and that would defy the basis on which they were elected.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, anyone who has voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and against No Deal has refused to do so
What it actually said was: "Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver: The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit."
Page 7 of the Conservative Party manifesto 2017 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union.'
Ideally it was to be with May's Deal, the best possible deal negotiated by the Conservative leader in 2017 in her view, MPs rejected that so it will have to be with a smooth, orderly and managed No Deal Brexit instead if MPs have not voted for the Deal by October 31st
Only that bastion of implacable moral certainty & principle Ruth Davidson left. Can we have a sweepstake on how many minutes after Boris wins she tweets her support for him?
Will a Boris Cabinet still try and push through No Deal Brexit on 31st Oct if we are at war with Iran?
Having a war, other than by accident, doesn't really seem Boris' style.
S/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt has despatched a T45 to Operation Persian Uncertainty to spice things up though so it might have already kicked off before Boris assumes his final form.
Yet you argue that “No Deal” will be “smooth and orderly” and somehow result in a “deep and special partnership”!
No I don't, I still want a Brexit Deal but as the current Commons clearly refuses to pass one to respect the Leave vote in 2016 No Deal it will have to be unless the Tories can get a majority to pass a Deal before October 31st.
The Tories manifesto commitment was clear we would leave the EU, ideally in a smooth or orderly fashion but nonetheless to Leave regardless
There’s no “ideally” about it. Delivering a smooth and orderly transition was an explicit commitment. And not by an arbitrarily imposed deadline either.
'We will take Britain out of the European Union' was an explicit Tory manifesto commitment, now that could be in a 'smooth and orderly' way with May's Deal but Parliament thrice rejected that so it will have to be with the most 'smooth and orderly' managed No Deal instead if Parliament still refuses to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement
If Parliament won't vote for it, that is, by definition, evidence that the Tory manifesto (even as twisted to support your interpretation) didn't have a majority to pass. You acknowledge that for every other thing in it, so it is illogical to claim that this is somehow different.
There will have been Tory MPs who made firm pledges to their constituents that they would only leave with a deal. They are under no obligation to support No deal, and that would defy the basis on which they were elected.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, anyone who has voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and against No Deal has refused to do so
Your usual absurd nonsense. Words crafted carefully to exempt those who voted Brexit down but support a no deal exit but not those who support a different type of deal. Shameful.
Where are the politicians with principles they would stand down for?
“Both Labour and Conservative MPs are confronted with a career- and character-defining question, and it grows sharper by the week. When do they say to themselves that enough is enough? Where is the point when it becomes indefensible to stay within parties that are so abhorrent to their first-order principles? They will have to talk to their consciences, assuming that they can remember where they left them”
I thought the header by Alastair was very well put together.
Brexiteers keep going on about the 17.4 M who voted for Brexit but what about the 50M citizens who did not? I think given MPs have a fresher mandate than the 2016 referendum, we should be taking as much time as they think we need to implement the best strategy. If that means going back to the people with the real options: so be it.
Where are the politicians with principles they would stand down for?
“Both Labour and Conservative MPs are confronted with a career- and character-defining question, and it grows sharper by the week. When do they say to themselves that enough is enough? Where is the point when it becomes indefensible to stay within parties that are so abhorrent to their first-order principles? They will have to talk to their consciences, assuming that they can remember where they left them”
I was decrying the lack of honour and duty in our modern politicians on here the other day, and then, lo and behold, Rudd sells out her principles for a possible place in the Cabinet.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment to their constituents to vote against Brexit unless it was with a Deal? Or who indeed promised to vote against Brexit Deal or No Deal like Grieve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, anyone who has voted against the Withdrawal Agreement and against No Deal has refused to do so
What it actually said was: "Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver: The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit."
Page 7 of the Conservative Party manifesto 2017 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union.'
Ideally it was to be with May's Deal, the best possible deal negotiated by the Conservative leader in 2017 in her view, MPs rejected that so it will have to be with a smooth, orderly and managed No Deal Brexit instead if MPs have not voted for the Deal by October 31st
”We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe. ”
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states.”
“We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible”
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
Ideally it was to be that so it will have to be with a smooth, orderly and managed No Deal Brexit instead if MPs have not voted for the Deal by October 31st
”We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe. ”
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states.”
“We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible”
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
Yes and the Withdrawal Agreement was produced for Brexit in a smooth and orderly way alongside the political declaration and most Tory MPs voted for it.
However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union' still has to be delivered regardless.
Nowhere in the Tory manifesto does it say they will keep Britain in the EU without a Deal, however on page 7 it makes clear they will take Britain out of the EU without qualification
If Johnson prorogues parliament then I predict we'll see the biggest mass protests and demonstrations in UK history. Surely even Boris Johnson isn't daft or egocentric enough to think that millions taking to the streets to protest against the suspension of democracy on his watch would look good for him?
Unless 18 million people demonstrate I doubt Boris will care less given 17 million people voted to Leave the EU and he will have delivered on that vote
Wow! You guys really don't care about the UK, or even the Conservative Party do you?
Guptil and Nicholls have a lot of explaining to do. Still a poor decision from Erasmus, though.
That's the same issue England had in the Semi though by that point it didn't matter anymore. The idea of reviews is to reverse clear and obvious mistakes not wishful thinking. Reviewing plumb LBWs is just wishful thinking and then squandered your chance for later.
If Johnson prorogues parliament then I predict we'll see the biggest mass protests and demonstrations in UK history. Surely even Boris Johnson isn't daft or egocentric enough to think that millions taking to the streets to protest against the suspension of democracy on his watch would look good for him?
Unless 18 million people demonstrate I doubt Boris will care less given 17 million people voted to Leave the EU and he will have delivered on that vote
Wow! You guys really don't care about the UK, or even the Conservative Party do you?
The Tories will be eviscerated.
Good.
Country before party.
If the Tories get eviscerated so be it they will have done the right thing first.
Ideally it was to be that so it will have to be with a smooth, orderly and managed No Deal Brexit instead if MPs have not voted for the Deal by October 31st
”We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe. ”
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states.”
“We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible”
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
Yes and the Withdrawal Agreement was produced for Brexit in a smooth and orderly way alongside the political declaration and most Tory MPs voted for it.
However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union' still has to be delivered regardless.
Nowhere in the Tory manifesto does it say they will keep Britain in the EU without a Deal, however on page 7 it makes clear they will take Britain out of the EU without qualification
"However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7"
HYUFD: Not only do you make selective choices with polls but it seems also with votes. Remainer Tories ?
How did the ERG vote ? How can you be so blatantly selective ?
Only that bastion of implacable moral certainty & principle Ruth Davidson left. Can we have a sweepstake on how many minutes after Boris wins she tweets her support for him?
What a world we live in, when agreeing to support your party leader after he's won an election with the support of the majority of the members, can somehow be spun as a negative.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment eve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, has refused to do so
What it actually orderly Brexit."
t
”We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe. ”
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states.”
“We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible”
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
Yes and the Withdrawal Agreement was produced for Brexit in a smooth and orderly way alongside the political declaration and most Tory MPs voted for it.
However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union' still has to be delivered regardless.
Nowhere in the Tory manifesto does it say they will keep Britain in the EU without a Deal, however on page 7 it makes clear they will take Britain out of the EU without qualification
You really have no integrity, do you?
The handful of Tory remainers who opposed the deal were cancelled out by the handful of Labour leavers who backed it. The reason it sunk, as before, was because the ERG so-called ‘Spartans’ plus the DUP opposed.
Until you are willing to face the truth that Brexit was sunk by its most fanatical adherents, you won’t have any respect in here.
Name me one Tory MP who made a personal manifesto commitment eve?
Name one who made a manifesto commitment that the deadline was 31st October, Deal or No deal.
The Tory manifesto was to take Britain out of the EU, has refused to do so
What it actually orderly Brexit."
t
”We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union and forge a deep and special partnership with our friends and allies across Europe. ”
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
Yes and the Withdrawal Agreement was produced for Brexit in a smooth and orderly way alongside the political declaration and most Tory MPs voted for it.
However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union' still has to be delivered regardless.
Nowhere in the Tory manifesto does it say they will keep Britain in the EU without a Deal, however on page 7 it makes clear they will take Britain out of the EU without qualification
You really have no integrity, do you?
The handful of Tory remainers who opposed the deal were cancelled out by the handful of Labour leavers who backed it. The reason it sunk, as before, was because the ERG so-called ‘Spartans’ plus the DUP opposed.
Until you are willing to face the truth that Brexit was sunk by its most fanatical adherents, you won’t have any respect in here.
The handful of Tory remainers who opposed the deal were cancelled out by the handful of Labour leavers who backed it. The reason it sunk, as before, was because the ERG so-called ‘Spartans’ plus the DUP opposed.
Until you are willing to face the truth that Brexit was sunk by its most fanatical adherents, you won’t have any respect in here.
The reason it sunk was because well over 300 MPs opposed it. Each and every MP who rejected it is responsible for rejecting it.
If they can live with the eventual alternative so be it. If not then they screwed up.
This poll is suggestive that the upward trend for Labour might be real. Interesting to ponder how it would translate into seats if accompanied by remainer tactical voting, but no similar calculation by leavers.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48980408
How would parties get a new candidate in time.
Ominous indeed.
That was exceptionally well timed.
I think I’ll give up posting and go back to watching.
Dharma again.
Edit - I meant Nicholls, of course!
At that point I would suggest that democracy in the UK is completely broken. Doubly so if it comes after a second referendum where there is a narrow majority for remaining.
"Theresa May's Conservatives will deliver: The best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit."
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/conservative-party-manifestos/Forward+Together+-+Our+Plan+for+a+Stronger+Britain+and+a+More+Prosperous....pdf
Ideally it was to be with May's Deal, the best possible deal negotiated by the Conservative leader in 2017 in her view, MPs rejected that so it will have to be with a smooth, orderly and managed No Deal Brexit instead if MPs have not voted for the Deal by October 31st
S/Lt (Acting) Mordaunt has despatched a T45 to Operation Persian Uncertainty to spice things up though so it might have already kicked off before Boris assumes his final form.
I am sure John Bolton would oblige
“Both Labour and Conservative MPs are confronted with a career- and character-defining question, and it grows sharper by the week. When do they say to themselves that enough is enough? Where is the point when it becomes indefensible to stay within parties that are so abhorrent to their first-order principles? They will have to talk to their consciences, assuming that they can remember where they left them”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/14/where-are-the-uk-politicians-with-principles-they-would-stand-down-for
Brexiteers keep going on about the 17.4 M who voted for Brexit but what about the 50M citizens who did not? I think given MPs have a fresher mandate than the 2016 referendum, we should be taking as much time as they think we need to implement the best strategy. If that means going back to the people with the real options: so be it.
“The government’s agenda will not be allowed to drift to the right. Our starting point is that we should take decisions on the basis of what works”
“As part of the agreement we strike, we want to make sure that there are as few barriers to trade and investment as possible. ”
“Conservatives will deliver the best possible deal for Britain as we leave the European Union delivered by a smooth, orderly Brexit.”
“We want to ensure our departure is smooth and orderly and to agree a deep and special partnership with the 27 remaining member states.”
“We want fair, orderly negotiations, minimising disruption and giving as much certainty as possible”
“We believe it is necessary to agree the terms of our future partnership alongside our withdrawal, reaching agreement on both within the two years allowed by Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union.”
However diehard Remainer Tory MPs joined the opposition and voted it down so the manifesto commitment on page 7 'We will get on with the job and take Britain out of the European Union' still has to be delivered regardless.
Nowhere in the Tory manifesto does it say they will keep Britain in the EU without a Deal, however on page 7 it makes clear they will take Britain out of the EU without qualification
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1148312432768684032?s=20
Trouble is (a) they're not 20% of the party and (b) there's no candidate other than Corbyn himself who is popular with all of them.
The Tories will be eviscerated.
Good.
If the Tories get eviscerated so be it they will have done the right thing first.
HYUFD: Not only do you make selective choices with polls but it seems also with votes. Remainer Tories ?
How did the ERG vote ? How can you be so blatantly selective ?
I'll be meeting one at a social do tonight. I'll ask him.
(As an aside, would be hilarious if Baker, Francois, Mogg et al were deselected for failing to vote to leave when they had the chance.)
https://twitter.com/maxshanly/status/1150102353736949761
The handful of Tory remainers who opposed the deal were cancelled out by the handful of Labour leavers who backed it. The reason it sunk, as before, was because the ERG so-called ‘Spartans’ plus the DUP opposed.
Until you are willing to face the truth that Brexit was sunk by its most fanatical adherents, you won’t have any respect in here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381395078000643
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381396994723841
If they can live with the eventual alternative so be it. If not then they screwed up.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1150379214685782018