FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actually a proxy for Israel then you can prove the point that there really is an insidious Jewish plot against the Jeremy, the public will rise up against the Jew and Labour wins big. And then Israel gets overthrown and the Jews get expelled from Palestine - which is what full return rights for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed out the one person on the program was an ex Israeli embassy employee, I realise as an angry centrist who keeps losing this is irritating so you have to create a grand conspiracy about what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You seem to be implying that formerly working for the Israeli embassy invalidates the employee claim. You are sailing very closely to the claim of rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
Would having a close Jewish friend, attending a Jewish wedding or having a holiday in Israel wreck a case. I watched a few minutes of the Eurovision Song Contest hosted by Israel this year. Does that make me just musically delinquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old Timer!
Yes, of course the Labour Party has an AS problem. It's a leadership failure, and won't be properly dealt with until the leadership is changed.
I thought even the leadership acknowledge theres a problem, they just dispute how much of one and say they are dealing with it?
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actually a proxy for Israel then you can prove the point that there really is an insidious Jewish plot against the Jeremy, the public will rise up against the Jew and Labour wins big. And then Israel gets overthrown and the Jews get expelled from Palestine - which is what full return rights for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed out the one person on the program was an ex Israeli embassy employee, I realise as an angry centrist who keeps losing this is irritating so you have to create a grand conspiracy about what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You seem to be implying that formerly working for the Israeli embassy invalidates the employee claim. You are sailing very closely to the claim of rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
Would having a close Jewish friend, attending a Jewish wedding or having a holiday in Israel wreck a case. I watched a few minutes of the Eurovision Song Contest hosted by Israel this year. Does that make me just musically delinquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old Timer!
Yes, of course the Labour Party has an AS problem. It's a leadership failure, and won't be properly dealt with until the leadership is changed.
You have faith that it will be dealt with by a new leader?
None of the Government, MPs or Speaker’s office has been given an advance copy of the report, which will be published in the House of Commons at 10am tomorrow.
But John Bercow and his staff are said to be “fearing the worst” from the report.
I bet hes shaking in his boots. Hes 10 years in the job and safe so long as Brexit is ongoing, what does he care if a report says things are not well in the palace?
OT. Just watched the Panorama. That's what happens when you starve the BBC of cash. It was on a par with the Dispatches documentary Killing Lady Di backed by Al Feyed. It looked like it had been cobbled together by a 1st year media student for their end of year show. It was not investigative and it was not journaism. It was trying to prove a point.
If the BBC want to maintain their position in the field of investigative journalism they'll have to do better than that. Decent documentaries involve a lot of research and they cost a lot of money. Getting an office junior to splice together a few bits of old news footage and then to interview a few people with a gripe accompanied by some library music entitled 'funerial' doesn't cut it and never will. 2/10
It didn't tell people like you and me much we didn't know already, it's true. It helped a bit in identifying clearly the personalities responsible for the Party's failure to investigate AS properly, and that's worth doing, but there was little new.
It would however have spread the news a little wider, beyond political anoraks like us. So again, that's worth doing.
Yes, it was a bit first-yearish, but you'd still have to give the student a pass for those reasons alone.
Some interesting jumps yourself there... you do realise it is anti semitic to suggest Israel = Jewish.
No surprise I guess considering the polling showing more anti semitism among Conservative voters than other parties such as Labour and Lib Dems.
Do you consider Israel to be anti-Semitic ? They self describe as "The Jewish State" and a proud to do so.
You also imply that I'm an anti-Semitic Conservative voter. Wrong on both counts. The problem with Corbyn cultists is that you will brook no criticism of the Dear Leader even when fundamental weaknesses are evident. The project must not be derailed whatever the cost.
Israel is allowed to do so, but if you as a member of a party with many anti semitic voters automatically translates Israel = Jewish then you should expect me to raise suspicion as you did in response to my comments.
I made no more serious implications than you did, if you find yourself offended then maybe consider how you treat others.
Also imagine I'm meeting the left wing slight with returned fire about ignorant old right wingers.
You are conflating individuals and the state and their beliefs and policies. Not unusual as socialists prefer the collectivism of the state to the rights of the individual.
Being left-wing is not a slight. Being unable to recognise severe problems within a left wing party certainly is.
Actually you are the one conflating with your original Jewish = Israel post.
I didn't say that being left wing was a slight just that your post contains a slight against left wing people.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
Well let’s be fair corbyn isn’t actually doing anything and never will in terms of governing the U.K. He will though, ensure that while he is leader thousands of people will not get the attention and help they need. If the Labour Party can’t see that this mess is entirely self inflicted by a leadership that defines anti semitism differently to most people that then gives cover for really anti Semitic members to make life hell for others.
But if you really want to believe it’s all a right wing Blairite plot then I doubt you are really interested in listening to others.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
One (big) problem Labour will have is that it seems as though the (cue dreaded phrase / assumption) the metropolitan elite types who have a disproportionate share of voice in the media seem to have decisively turned against it, at least while Corbyn is in power. That means that Labour is likely to face an ongoing barrage of these types of stories which constantly erode the party's brand/
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
What happens if 10 Tory MPs resign the whip following the announcement that Boris Johnson has been elected leader in 12 days' time?
Then we likely get a VONC, a September general election and if Boris wins a majority he can then dispense with them
So you believe that Theresa May will advise the Queen to appoint a prime minister who is from day 1 unable to govern.
Yes.
May will advise the Queen that presently Boris Johnson is best placed to secure the confidence of the House of Commons.
How long that situation persists is an entirely different matter.
That's only true until the DUP walk away or 2 MPs resign the Tory whip.
If either of those occur what should May say?
The situation remains the same. A minority government without C&S is still the government and accordingly have a Prime Minister at the head.
May remained PM in 2017 as did Heath and Wilson in 1974.
So May would still nominate Boris as Corbyn asks the speaker for a VoNC..
Perhaps a group of Tory MPs Could make clear in advance of the end of the leadership election that they would nor support Boris as PM. May would then know that she could not advise HMQ to send for Boris. Boris, knowing that he could not become PM, would have the opportunity to withdraw. Result: Hunt becomes leader and subsequently PM.
Hmm, I don't think that would be the result. If a significant number of Conservative MPs indicated a lack of support for Boris then sending for Hunt would not work. There would be a number of Boris acolytes who would never support Hunt. Only realistic option in such a scenario would be a general election.
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actual for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
Imean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You seem to be implying that formerly working for the Israeli embassy invalidates the employee claim. You are sailing very closely to the claim of rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
Would having a close Jewish friend, attending a Jewish wedding or having a holiday in Israel wreck a case. I watched a few minutes of the Eurovision Song Contest hosted by Israel this year. Does that make me just musically delinquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old Timer!
Yes, of course the Labour Party has an AS problem. It's a leadership failure, and won't be properly dealt with until the leadership is changed.
You have faith that it will be dealt with by a new leader?
I don't see why not.
The Party has never been endemically racist, not in my lifetime. Rather the opposite. Support for racial and religious tolerance runs deep, and was never in issue until Corbyn and his supporters gained power.
There's a number of candidates who could easily replace Corbyn who have far better credentials than him.
I am still curious what the email leaker's actual agenda was. If associated with Johnson or Hunt presumably it failed; if Farage maybe it worked.
On Panorama, the Labour Party is acting exactly like the Catholic Church and its child abuse problem. Defend the institution whatever it takes and don't care who gets damaged on the way.
That, at least, is hardly a Labour unique situation. Are there any organisations and institutions that dont eventually prioritise defending themselves over all else? Particular with political parties which see their own victories as moral imperatives - 'we must save the country, only we can do it, so never mind all this crap' etc etc.
Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
And turning to men of the people like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage?
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
At one point we suspended a Jewish woman (who works for us) for saying Jew...
We also kicked out Marc Wadsworth (in fairness not an employee) and saw him branded an anti semite when many people on PB saw the video of what he did and agreed it was anti semitic.
The problem with Labour is attacking innocent people to satisfy the right wing press, they wouldn't be satisfied if we strung up every left wing minority Labour supporter there is, we should concentrate on having a fair process not one which responds to an angry right wing press.
Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
And turning to men of the people like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage?
It’s sad to see the left so utterly infected with racism.
“Nothing like this has ever happened before,” McDonald told another MP. “There must be consequences. What they are in detail I can’t tell you this afternoon.”
That’s not very woke. No wonder the cool kids of Shoreditch no longer believe in Dear Leader.
I also note the classic corbynista tactic of instead of discussing the actual point, it’s just a deflect, deflect, attack, attack.
I can’t wait until your cult becomes a SWP irrelevance one again.
TBH until you can correctly identify the person we are on about I'm not sure there is much point continuing this.
I have never heard woke voters call a woman him and then proceed to get angry when corrected that the other person has assumed the gender, I think you are out on your own there.
I can't wait until you can correctly identify which people you are trying to argue about.
deflect
I assume that is what you are doing, would have probably been better just to admit at the start you didn't know who we were on about and so called her him...
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actually a proxy for Israel then you can prove the point that there really is an insidious Jewish plot against the Jeremy, the public will rise up against the Jew and Labour wins big. And then Israel gets overthrown and the Jews get expelled from Palestine - which is what full return rights for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed out the one person on the program was an ex Israeli embassy employee, I realise as an angry centrist who keeps losing this is irritating so you have to create a grand conspiracy about what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You snquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old Timer!
Yes, of course the Labour Party has an AS problem. It's a leadership failure, and won't be properly dealt with until the leadership is changed.
I thought even the leadership acknowledge theres a problem, they just dispute how much of one and say they are dealing with it?
They have said as much, but done little.
It's a system failure and they need to change the system, but they won't do that because a robust compliance team with genuine backing would embarrass the current leadership which is responsible for the emergence of the crisis in the first place.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
One (big) problem Labour will have is that it seems as though the (cue dreaded phrase / assumption) the metropolitan elite types who have a disproportionate share of voice in the media seem to have decisively turned against it, at least while Corbyn is in power. That means that Labour is likely to face an ongoing barrage of these types of stories which constantly erode the party's brand/
Didn't hurt them last time. Not much of this stuff is new. Unless the LDs can cut through the brand all those in and out if parliament who are unhappy will back them and kowtow to the leader if they win.
Some interesting jumps yourself there... you do realise it is anti semitic to suggest Israel = Jewish.
No surprise I guess considering the polling showing more anti semitism among Conservative voters than other parties such as Labour and Lib Dems.
Do you consider Israel to be anti-Semitic ? They self describe as "The Jewish State" and a proud to do so.
You also imply that I'm an anti-Semitic Conservative voter. Wrong on both counts. The problem with Corbyn cultists is that you will brook no criticism of the Dear Leader even when fundamental weaknesses are evident. The project must not be derailed whatever the cost.
Israel is allowed to do so, but if you as a member of a party with many anti semitic voters automatically translates Israel = Jewish then you should expect me to raise suspicion as you did in response to my comments.
I made no more serious implications than you did, if you find yourself offended then maybe consider how you treat others.
Also imagine I'm meeting the left wing slight with returned fire about ignorant old right wingers.
You are conflating individuals and the state and their beliefs and policies. Not unusual as socialists prefer the collectivism of the state to the rights of the individual.
Being left-wing is not a slight. Being unable to recognise severe problems within a left wing party certainly is.
Actually you are the one conflating with your original Jewish = Israel post.
I didn't say that being left wing was a slight just that your post contains a slight against left wing people.
Once again you are conflating the whole with the individual. My criticism is with those individuals who fail to deal adequately with the very significant problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
"Left wing people" as a body have very differing views on the issue, some of which I agree with and some I do not. You again prefer the collective to the individual.
I am still curious what the email leaker's actual agenda was. If associated with Johnson or Hunt presumably it failed; if Farage maybe it worked.
On Panorama, the Labour Party is acting exactly like the Catholic Church and its child abuse problem. Defend the institution whatever it takes and don't care who gets damaged on the way.
That's a good analogy.
It's not as acute or far-reaching as the CC's problem, and much easier fixed. All the Party needs to do is appoint a competent compliance team and back it. I can't see the current leadership doing that so the leadership needs to be changed.
I can see that happening, but maybe not soon.
The problem they have is drawing a line on acceptable/unacceptable behaviour - i.e. defining in specific terms what offences are regarded as serious - given the considerable back history many members have, from the leader down to ordinary members, of making recorded comments that are close to that line.
To take that a bit further, the line has shifted but (obviously) the historical record has not. There is no longer a clear distinction between being anti-Israel and being anti-Jewish. Now there is a vast overlap. Ironically, this protects those who hate Jews as people, because it allows them to hide behind those who are inexplicably obsessed with the Middle East (and have not compiled a list of ME states where it is all right to be gay or left wing or a trades unionist or a critic of the heads of state and government, or even a voter). It is hard to act against anti-Jewish racists if half the big cheeses have a 30-year history of carelessly-worded condemnations of Israel.
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If onlyfrom Palestine - which is what full return rights for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed out the one person on the program was an ex Israeli embassy employee, I realise as an angry centrist who keeps losing this is irritating so you have to create a grand conspiracy about what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You seem to be implying that formerly working for the Israeli embassy invalidates the employee claim. You are sailing very closely to the claim of rampant anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
Would having a close Jewish friend, attending a Jewish wedding or having a holiday in Israel wreck a case. I watched a few minutes of the Eurovision Song Contest hosted by Israel this year. Does that make me just musically delinquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old Timer!
Yes, of course the Labour Party has an AS problem. It's a leadership failure, and won't be properly dealt with until the leadership is changed.
@JackW clearly should have boycotted Eurovision, as any good progressive should, over Israel's treatment of gay people.
In Israel gay people walk on the streets through tall buildings, unlike many of the neighbouring countries in which you are more likely to be hanged from them for been gay.
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actually a proxy for Israel then you can prove the point that there really is an insidious Jewish plot against the Jeremy, the public will rise up against the Jew and Labour wins big. And then Israel gets overthrown and the Jews get expelled from Palestine - which is what full return rights for 2nd/3rd generation descendents of refugees means in practice. What's more, as JIM has been affiliated for 100 years that also means the Labour Party is tainted with the same Jewish plot and that means you can remove anyone who was a party member pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You snquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old .
I thought even the leadership acknowledge theres a problem, they just dispute how much of one and say they are dealing with it?
They have said as much, but done little.
It's a system failure and they need to change the system, but they won't do that because a robust compliance team with genuine backing would embarrass the current leadership which is responsible for the emergence of the crisis in the first place.
I was merely noting the distinction between the official position which is that a problem exists of some kind vs a great deal of the online support which thinks there is no real problem. It can lead to odd moments eg the calling it all smears even as officially it is accepted not to be.
Some interesting jumps yourself there... you do realise it is anti semitic to suggest Israel = Jewish.
No surprise I guess considering the polling showing more anti semitism among Conservative voters than other parties such as Labour and Lib Dems.
Do you consider Israel to be anti-Semitic ? They self describe as "The Jewish State" and a proud to do so.
You also imply that I'm an anti-Semitic Conservative voter. Wrong on both counts. The problem with Corbyn cultists is that you will brook no criticism of the Dear Leader even when fundamental weaknesses are evident. The project must not be derailed whatever the cost.
Israel is allowed to do so, but if you as a member of a party with many anti semitic voters automatically translates Israel = Jewish then you should expect me to raise suspicion as you did in response to my comments.
I made no more serious implications than you did, if you find yourself offended then maybe consider how you treat others.
Also imagine I'm meeting the left wing slight with returned fire about ignorant old right wingers.
You are conflating individuals and the state and their beliefs and policies. Not unusual as socialists prefer the collectivism of the state to the rights of the individual.
Being left-wing is not a slight. Being unable to recognise severe problems within a left wing party certainly is.
Actually you are the one conflating with your original Jewish = Israel post.
I didn't say that being left wing was a slight just that your post contains a slight against left wing people.
Once again you are conflating the whole with the individual. My criticism is with those individuals who fail to deal adequately with the very significant problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour party.
"Left wing people" as a body have very differing views on the issue, some of which I agree with and some I do not. You again prefer the collective to the individual.
Actually I am conflating your original post with you, which seems fair.
My problem is the much greater anti semitism among Conservatives and their attempts to hide it behind cheap jibes at Labour supporters.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
Political parties, and indeed trade unions, often turn out to be bad employers. I have always seen it as similar to the number of builders whose own houses are falling down.
Farage saying anyone in the military or civil service who don’t believe in Brexit should be removed !.
Where Farage goes, Boris is a few steps behind, just not as bold and with a haughty chuckle. He would not agree with Farage on that, but I bet if asked hed respond in mealy mouthed fashion because he knows how many tory members would agree. 'I say, that's a bit harsh, though more people should believe in britain tally ho'
OT damn -- just noticed from an advert at the top that the Royal Opera House live-streamed Figaro a couple of days ago. It is probably on Youtube now but that's not quite the same thing.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
we should concentrate on having a fair process not one which responds to an angry right wing press.
A fair process is precisely what is needed, not one in which the leadership, or a mob of activists decide guilt or innocence based on some loyalty litmus test.
"X cannot be expelled for anti-semitism as he supports Corbyn" and "Y cannot raise issues of anti-semitism because she once voted against Corbyn" are not indicators of a fair process.
It's not just the anti-semitism that stinks, but the much wider desire on the far left to personalise every issue as a personal one. Personality cults rarely end well and are very dangerous to party democracy.
The problem with Labour is attacking innocent people to satisfy the right wing press, they wouldn't be satisfied if we strung up every left wing minority Labour supporter there is, we should concentrate on having a fair process not one which responds to an angry right wing press.
I am still curious what the email leaker's actual agenda was. If associated with Johnson or Hunt presumably it failed; if Farage maybe it worked.
On Panorama, the Labour Party is acting exactly like the Catholic Church and its child abuse problem. Defend the institution whatever it takes and don't care who gets damaged on the way.
That's a good analogy.
It's not as acute or far-reaching as the CC's problem, and much easier fixed. All the Party needs to do is appoint a competent compliance team and back it. I can't see the current leadership doing that so the leadership needs to be changed.
I can see that happening, but maybe not soon.
The problem they have is drawing a line on acceptable/unacceptable behaviour - i.e. defining in specific terms what offences are regarded as serious - given the considerable back history many members have, from the leader down to ordinary members, of making recorded comments that are close to that line.
To take that a bit further, the line has shifted but (obviously) the historical record has not. There is no longer a clear distinction between being anti-Israel and being anti-Jewish. Now there is a vast overlap. Ironically, this protects those who hate Jews as people, because it allows them to hide behind those who are inexplicably obsessed with the Middle East (and have not compiled a list of ME states where it is all right to be gay or left wing or a trades unionist or a critic of the heads of state and government, or even a voter). It is hard to act against anti-Jewish racists if half the big cheeses have a 30-year history of carelessly-worded condemnations of Israel.
You have pretty much hit the nail on the head, Decrepit.
Of course it is possible to criticise Israel without being remotely anti-semitic. Millions of Israelis do as much each day. It requires a certain amount of intellectual rigour and maturity however to distinguish that criticisim from AS because the distinction is easily eroded. That rigour has been lacking in the Labour Leadership and it is therefore hardly surprising that it has failed to discipline those who have crossed the line between criticism and racism, whether wittingly or not, or out of malice or stupidity.
FPT: Jezzziah demonstrates just how twisteed and depraved the Corbynite spin machine is. Set aside the basic human creeping revulsion for a moment, it's the lack of political comprehension that baffles me the most - apparently the way to win over the public in response to events is to double down - have to prove that it really is a massive Jewish plot, look, a link to Israel! If we prove that, the scales fall from the eyes and Jeremy wins a big majority!
We know who the cult will blame for the ultimate failure of the Corbyn cancer - Israel. Not that there is an anti-semitism problem...
I imagine it is annoying when people bring facts into the equation to spoil a good smear, whine on about cults to make yourself feel better.
No I get it. If only you can prove that a 100 year affiliate to the Labour Party is actually a proxy for Israel then you can prove the point that there really is an insidious Jewish plot against the Jeremy, the public will rise up against the Jew and Lamember pre-2015.
You don't see a basic political flaw with this strategy. Never mind a basic human decency flaw...
Bla bla bla...
I pointed what I really mean.
Keep ranting if it makes you feel better, the facts stand however angry a response you make to them.
You snquent or an agent of Mossad ?
Would make you tone deaf, Old .
I thought even the leadership acknowledge theres a problem, they just dispute how much of one and say they are dealing with it?
They have said as much, but done little.
It's a system failure and they need to change the system, but they won't do that because a robust compliance team with genuine backing would embarrass the current leadership which is responsible for the emergence of the crisis in the first place.
I was merely noting the distinction between the official position which is that a problem exists of some kind vs a great deal of the online support which thinks there is no real problem. It can lead to odd moments eg the calling it all smears even as officially it is accepted not to be.
Sure. I don't think we're at odds on this. In fact Cultists apart, I believe there's a fairly general understanding of where Labour is at and how it got there on the AS issue.
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
I can imagine not wanting minorities killed is deeply offensive to some, my apologies.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Actually I am conflating your original post with you, which seems fair.
My problem is the much greater anti semitism among Conservatives and their attempts to hide it behind cheap jibes at Labour supporters.
Your problem is you believe that because some Conservative voters have an anti-Semitism and also leadership candidate acknowledged Islamophobic problem that the Labour party gets a pass on its' own shocking record.
You do not. The Corbynistas have had every opportunity and time to root out the evil of anti-Semitism from the Labour party but they have put the narrow interests of the leadership above effectively dealing with the vile stench of anti-Semitism.
It was and is a critical test of leadership and Jeremy Corbyn has failed as truly and surely as Boris Johnson has failed in his abject behaviour in the Darroch affair.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
I can imagine not wanting minorities killed is deeply offensive to some, my apologies.
Like I said, your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
Political parties, and indeed trade unions, often turn out to be bad employers. I have always seen it as similar to the number of builders whose own houses are falling down.
Charities too in my experience. What I think that these organisations all have in common is that they have a conceit that they are morally superior to other organisations because of their objectives and they use this conceit to impose a different standard on themselves. The use of NDAs in this case by Labour is a classic example.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
One (big) problem Labour will have is that it seems as though the (cue dreaded phrase / assumption) the metropolitan elite types who have a disproportionate share of voice in the media seem to have decisively turned against it, at least while Corbyn is in power. That means that Labour is likely to face an ongoing barrage of these types of stories which constantly erode the party's brand/
Didn't hurt them last time. Not much of this stuff is new. Unless the LDs can cut through the brand all those in and out if parliament who are unhappy will back them and kowtow to the leader if they win.
What will do it for Labour this time is that the anti-Semitism issue has come about at the same time as growing dissatisfaction among that group[ at Corbyn's stance on Brexit. Anti-Semitism is giving them a moral reason for switching from Labour when it is probably more the party's Brexit stance that is the catalyst.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
we should concentrate on having a fair process not one which responds to an angry right wing press.
A fair process is precisely what is needed, not one in which the leadership, or a mob of activists decide guilt or innocence based on some loyalty litmus test.
"X cannot be expelled for anti-semitism as he supports Corbyn" and "Y cannot raise issues of anti-semitism because she once voted against Corbyn" are not indicators of a fair process.
It's not just the anti-semitism that stinks, but the much wider desire on the far left to personalise every issue as a personal one. Personality cults rarely end well and are very dangerous to party democracy.
TBH the ones loyal to the leadership get treated much harsher, look at the case of Marc Wadsworth or the Jewish woman who said Jew.
What the party needs to do is ignore the right wing press and those with an agenda, if someone is a Corbyn supporter that doesn't mean we convict them, even if the media does go wild about it.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
One of my best bosses as a junior doctor in the Emergency Dept was just like that. Whenever we clashed with another department, we had absolute confidence he would back us. Afterwards he would quietly talk through how we could have handled it better. Never the hairdryer. The combination of expertise, support and approachability is something that I try to emulate now that I am in the supervisory position. It works, and juniors are always willing to go the extra mile under that sort of regime.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
I can imagine not wanting minorities killed is deeply offensive to some, my apologies.
Like I said, your statements are offensive as they are foolish.
Look I'm really sorry I don't want minorities killed. (we going to continue this?)
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
We've quickly moved on from crocodile tears to being annoyed at people bringing up inconvenient facts... hey who cares about the people killed, ideological purity is all that matters to you.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
Political parties, and indeed trade unions, often turn out to be bad employers. I have always seen it as similar to the number of builders whose own houses are falling down.
Charities too in my experience. What I think that these organisations all have in common is that they have a conceit that they are morally superior to other organisations because of their objectives and they use this conceit to impose a different standard on themselves. The use of NDAs in this case by Labour is a classic example.
I concur. Trade unions, political parties and charities are often nasty employers. Bullying seems to be more frequent than in other organisations. There ought to be good research on frequency of workplace bullying in different types of organisation. Can anyone point us in direction?
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Yes, that guy's resignation letter that went viral on Twitter last week began with the abuse he received whenever he walked into a party meeting, simply because he wasn't a Corbynite.
Setting on one side the allegations of antisemitism, Corbyn’s Labour has proved itself as unprincipled and abusive an employer as the worst of capitalists.
Political parties, and indeed trade unions, often turn out to be bad employers. I have always seen it as similar to the number of builders whose own houses are falling down.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
One of my best bosses as a junior doctor in the Emergency Dept was just like that. Whenever we clashed with another department, we had absolute confidence he would back us. Afterwards he would quietly talk through how we could have handled it better. Never the hairdryer. The combination of expertise, support and approachability is something that I try to emulate now that I am in the supervisory position. It works, and juniors are always willing to go the extra mile under that sort of regime.
While giving a telling off to one of my staff, in private, years ago, he complained that I never told anyone else off. Not in public, I replied. I must confess I didn't always keep to that policy, although I tried to.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I would be very much in favour of that
Me too, but perhaps only for 1/3 of seats. For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
By voting LD, Alun Cairns without doubt remains as my MP.
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I would be very much in favour of that
Me too, but perhaps only for 1/3 of seats. For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
In theory I like this idea but in practice I think it would be too convoluted and complex.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
It is self evident that everything Boris does will be spun against him. He has to stand it in silence and will still have to when he is PM. Most who think about it see he was on a hiding for nothing on this particular affair.
The criminal was the person who leaked. Who was that ? Unknowable. A competent ambassador could have been a bit more ambiguous in his post. FFS what was he saying ? Not everyone in Washington is impressed by the skills of the president and his political opponents hate him ?
Jesus, that is crap. He should be saying, there are issues with ABC. DE has good access to the president. It might be a good idea to approach FG as he might get us access to HJ who is the president's confidante in Illinois. That is what he should have been saying.
So, looking back at the post anyone seeing it might well come to the conclusion which no-one has dared voice. In that case BJ's response was probably as wise as it could be.
TheJezziah's total lack of empathy and solidarity with a succession of people so traumatised by working for the Labour party that they had nervous breakdowns and even contemplated suicide is mirrored by the reactions of the party itself and its various outriders to the Panorama documentary. This basic failure to acknowledge the genuine pain suffered by people who only wanted the best for Labour shows just how toxic the party has become.
Non-Labour members, imagine being Jewish or a non-Corbyn cultist in room full of Jezziahs. That's what many CLP meetings up and down the country are like these days - and there are many people suffering the anguish experienced by the Panorama interviewees as a result.
Crocodile tears from someone who wants the slaughter or Iraq, the death of David Kelly back. Not to mention it was these people messing around with cases to attack Corbyn when a suicide was committed.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
By voting LD, Alun Cairns without doubt remains as my MP.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
Under our voting system, a lot depends on the geography of the change.
If the Labour vote declines broadly and the LibDem vote rises, the Tories will do very well at coming through the middle, until the point where the LibDems (using them as proxy for any other centre-left party that might emerge from Labour's turmoil) can secure a vote share lead over the Tories. The BXP might help here, depending on where it stands.
The leave/remain division does offer the prospect of a the LibDem upsurge focused on the areas that lead toward Remain in the Home Counties and university towns where the LDs are mostly best placed to overhaul the Tories, and going head to head with Labour in London, whilst making less of a dent in Labour's urban strongholds in the North and S Wales. This does however require Labour to hang onto most of its northern seats.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
One of my best bosses as a junior doctor in the Emergency Dept was just like that. Whenever we clashed with another department, we had absolute confidence he would back us. Afterwards he would quietly talk through how we could have handled it better. Never the hairdryer. The combination of expertise, support and approachability is something that I try to emulate now that I am in the supervisory position. It works, and juniors are always willing to go the extra mile under that sort of regime.
While giving a telling off to one of my staff, in private, years ago, he complained that I never told anyone else off. Not in public, I replied. I must confess I didn't always keep to that policy, although I tried to.
Its an excellent policy - praise in public, critique in private. That way people will actually listen to you and not worry about how all their colleagues are secretly enjoying it.......Another bit of good advice I was given was "give your people more than you think they can do - they won't do it all, but they will do more than you think they can. And keep a weather eye so they don't drop any clangers....."
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I would be very much in favour of that
Me too, but perhaps only for 1/3 of seats. For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
so jobs for the boys rather than power to the people
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I would be very much in favour of that
Me too, but perhaps only for 1/3 of seats. For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
In theory I like this idea but in practice I think it would be too convoluted and complex.
Well there’s a detailed thread about how this could work simply - and how you’d move progressively to this from where we are (778 members) - but it might be too niche even for PB.
I like the HoL, and I get annoyed at the idea of its abolition or its replacement by an elected body.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
A competent ambassador could have been a bit more ambiguous in his post.
Poorly-written article by three youngsters, but worth struggling through if you’re interested in the future of SLab, which admittedly is a very minority hobby.
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’ - The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
I would like the HoL replaced by a Senate of Regions and Nations.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I would be very much in favour of that
Me too, but perhaps only for 1/3 of seats. For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
No, trust the Regions and Nations to choose the great and good from their own ranks. Any national appointments are liable to maintain the current bias.
Mr. Pete, I strongly suspect Boris will be a terrible PM.
That doesn't change the fact he's not far right, and therefore not the atrocious equivalent of Corbyn.
If Boris wins the leadership but Labour ousts Corbyn and replaces him with someone boring but sane, it'd be interesting. But I'll believe the far left has had its grip prised from Labour when it happens.
Having worked in finance, I know one of Alex Ferguson's sons reasonably well. Back when Mr Ferguson was running Manchester Utd, I heard why Alex Ferguson was trusted so much by his players.
Simply, no matter what you did, he would back you in public. A stupid challenge? It was never a card, the referee must have been blind. A karate kick at a fan? Appalling provocation, the police should be involved.
In the dressing room, it was another matter. Sir Alex might throw boots at you or scream at you. He would tell you what he really thought of your behaviour.
But in front of the public: he always had your back, whether you were right or wrong.
That's how Boris Johnson should have been. He could tell Sir Kim to resign in private. But in public, he has to back his man.
That he did not, tells you much of the character of the man.
My first boss was like that. When I as a trainee made a stupid mistake he would shout at the other side until it was sorted to everyone's satisfaction with never a hint that I might have made a mistake. And then privately tell me not to be so stupid again. I don't think I ever had a better boss. It gave you a lot of confidence to get on and do your job.
A competent ambassador could have been a bit more ambiguous in his post.
Im struggling to see what benefit there would be impeaching Trump when hes out of office
- the US wouldnt really want a president in jail - looks bad to foreigners - Trump would just go off on one defending himself and then all bets are off where that leads - the fissures in US society would simply get deeper to non-ones benefit
Much better to ignore him and let him fade in to obscurity rather than feed the ego.
She's ambitious and can see which way the wind is blowing, within her party at least.
Its the more principled MPs at the edge who offer the prospect of bringing Boris down - the Lees and Greenings
Refusing to accept you were democratically defeated after pledging to respect the result isn't principled.
Damaging or even sacrificing your career in defence of a long held personal position is principled; chopping and changing your position depending on the views of your party or its leadership is not.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
By voting LD, Alun Cairns without doubt remains as my MP.
She's ambitious and can see which way the wind is blowing, within her party at least.
Its the more principled MPs at the edge who offer the prospect of bringing Boris down - the Lees and Greenings
Refusing to accept you were democratically defeated after pledging to respect the result isn't principled.
Damaging or even sacrificing your career in defence of a long held personal position is principled; chopping and changing your position depending on the views of your party or its leadership is not.
Jezziah is the reason why people like me don't just stay in the Labour Party but stay active and fight. We cannot let his kind of scum - and your words this morning demonstrate that you ARE reprehensible scum sir - destroy this party.
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
There must however be a tipping point where the party is irrevocably damaged and you'd be doing it and the country a favour by walking away?
Throwing the baby out with the vile anti-semitic, soviet enriched bathwater gives us a generation or two of Boris Johnsons as our PM. It is nonetheless an unpleasant dilemma to overcome.
Vote Lib Dem to hold the balance of power, or even more
By voting LD, Alun Cairns without doubt remains as my MP.
Could be worse. Mine's Priti Patel!
Why we need multi-member constituencies with STV, or at least a Holyrood style system of PR.
Comments
It would however have spread the news a little wider, beyond political anoraks like us. So again, that's worth doing.
Yes, it was a bit first-yearish, but you'd still have to give the student a pass for those reasons alone.
I didn't say that being left wing was a slight just that your post contains a slight against left wing people.
But if you really want to believe it’s all a right wing Blairite plot then I doubt you are really interested in listening to others.
It is the centrists with blood on their hands, but they attack others to try and assuage their own guilt. Look in the mirror mate, it is people exactly like you the electorate is moving away from, old, rich and white who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves, a typical example of a selfish generation.
Overslept? On way to B&R maybe. Actually anyone been there?
The Party has never been endemically racist, not in my lifetime. Rather the opposite. Support for racial and religious tolerance runs deep, and was never in issue until Corbyn and his supporters gained power.
There's a number of candidates who could easily replace Corbyn who have far better credentials than him.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/10/after-kim-darroch-britain-risks-becoming-vassal-to-united-states
We also kicked out Marc Wadsworth (in fairness not an employee) and saw him branded an anti semite when many people on PB saw the video of what he did and agreed it was anti semitic.
The problem with Labour is attacking innocent people to satisfy the right wing press, they wouldn't be satisfied if we strung up every left wing minority Labour supporter there is, we should concentrate on having a fair process not one which responds to an angry right wing press.
That said, use of the word vassal is often a telltale sign of a poor argument- it crops up a lot.
It's a system failure and they need to change the system, but they won't do that because a robust compliance team with genuine backing would embarrass the current leadership which is responsible for the emergence of the crisis in the first place.
I fear that, in acts of pure spite, the poor and disenfranchised who put Trump into office are about to reap terrible consequences.
Not dissimilar to the spiteful treatment poor and disenfranchised Leave supporters are shortly going to receive from the Establishment.
"Left wing people" as a body have very differing views on the issue, some of which I agree with and some I do not. You again prefer the collective to the individual.
Soon they’ll be sending all non believers off to re re-education camps .
It's pretty bloody wretched.
My problem is the much greater anti semitism among Conservatives and their attempts to hide it behind cheap jibes at Labour supporters.
They helping bring about Brexit?!
"X cannot be expelled for anti-semitism as he supports Corbyn" and "Y cannot raise issues of anti-semitism because she once voted against Corbyn" are not indicators of a fair process.
It's not just the anti-semitism that stinks, but the much wider desire on the far left to personalise every issue as a personal one. Personality cults rarely end well and are very dangerous to party democracy.
Of course it is possible to criticise Israel without being remotely anti-semitic. Millions of Israelis do as much each day. It requires a certain amount of intellectual rigour and maturity however to distinguish that criticisim from AS because the distinction is easily eroded. That rigour has been lacking in the Labour Leadership and it is therefore hardly surprising that it has failed to discipline those who have crossed the line between criticism and racism, whether wittingly or not, or out of malice or stupidity.
....
*shifty eyes*
‘How Scottish Labour is moving towards constitutional radicalism’
- The party has finally recognised that the country’s political and economic woes flow from the centralised and outmoded British state.
“In terms of devolution, there is a new recognition that Scotland needs more economic as well as political power, increasing the borrowing powers of the Scottish parliament... More importantly, there is now a clear sense that the basic structure of the UK has to change, with the House of Lords abolished and replaced with a Senate of the Regions and Nations, increasing the influence of Britain’s peripheralised areas over the direction of the state and ensuring a greater voice in debates over Britain’s wildly uneven economy. Leonard’s language of “breaking up the centralisation of power” and “sharing power” between nations, regions and communities suggested an even more radical reshaping of British sovereignty itself, dispersing it away from Westminster and across the whole country.”
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2019/07/how-scottish-labour-moving-towards-constitutional-radicalism
The absurd spin machine attack as propagated by him this morning only pushes the voters further away and with it the chances of a Labour government. And that's the betting tip of the morning - we will soon have a Tory party led by a man not fit for public office, a Labour party led by a man not fit for public office, a Brexit party led by a man not fit for public office. We have already seen that voting public are willing to switch as they see fit...
You do not. The Corbynistas have had every opportunity and time to root out the evil of anti-Semitism from the Labour party but they have put the narrow interests of the leadership above effectively dealing with the vile stench of anti-Semitism.
It was and is a critical test of leadership and Jeremy Corbyn has failed as truly and surely as Boris Johnson has failed in his abject behaviour in the Darroch affair.
What the party needs to do is ignore the right wing press and those with an agenda, if someone is a Corbyn supporter that doesn't mean we convict them, even if the media does go wild about it.
Jezziah is jumping the shark.
When it comes to election time, will sane Labour types be campaigning for Corbyn to be PM?
Yes, that works for me.
Excellent header.
I would have each represented by Senators, appointed by devolved governments and county councils in proportion to population. Mostly I would expect these to be chosen from those who had served in elected office, though I would not restrict it to these.
This would give representation to neglected regions, and encourage high calibre applicants to local and devolved governments.
I must confess I didn't always keep to that policy, although I tried to.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-has-done-more-to-inflame-antisemitism-than-any-political-figure-since-second-world-war-1.486310
For the rest I would have an independent committee appoint 1/3 from the political ranks, and another 1/3 from the “great and the good” from other walks of life.
The criminal was the person who leaked. Who was that ? Unknowable. A competent ambassador could have been a bit more ambiguous in his post. FFS what was he saying ? Not everyone in Washington is impressed by the skills of the president and his political opponents hate him ?
Jesus, that is crap. He should be saying, there are issues with ABC. DE has good access to the president. It might be a good idea to approach FG as he might get us access to HJ who is the president's confidante in Illinois. That is what he should have been saying.
So, looking back at the post anyone seeing it might well come to the conclusion which no-one has dared voice. In that case BJ's response was probably as wise as it could be.
If the Labour vote declines broadly and the LibDem vote rises, the Tories will do very well at coming through the middle, until the point where the LibDems (using them as proxy for any other centre-left party that might emerge from Labour's turmoil) can secure a vote share lead over the Tories. The BXP might help here, depending on where it stands.
The leave/remain division does offer the prospect of a the LibDem upsurge focused on the areas that lead toward Remain in the Home Counties and university towns where the LDs are mostly best placed to overhaul the Tories, and going head to head with Labour in London, whilst making less of a dent in Labour's urban strongholds in the North and S Wales. This does however require Labour to hang onto most of its northern seats.
chumtastic
I like the HoL, and I get annoyed at the idea of its abolition or its replacement by an elected body.
Its the more principled MPs at the edge who offer the prospect of bringing Boris down - the Lees and Greenings
https://twitter.com/kurt_obruny/status/1149187115307196417
That doesn't change the fact he's not far right, and therefore not the atrocious equivalent of Corbyn.
If Boris wins the leadership but Labour ousts Corbyn and replaces him with someone boring but sane, it'd be interesting. But I'll believe the far left has had its grip prised from Labour when it happens.
- the US wouldnt really want a president in jail - looks bad to foreigners
- Trump would just go off on one defending himself and then all bets are off where that leads
- the fissures in US society would simply get deeper to non-ones benefit
Much better to ignore him and let him fade in to obscurity rather than feed the ego.