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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Failing to back the ambassador – the first mistake of the Bori

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    Remarkably Gordon brown as worst PM in my lifetime is set to be outdone by the buffoon seemingly getting the keys to no. 10. This is not a prize the tories should aspire for but there you go, I can get my 'don't blame me I voted for ken' t-shirt and watch the brexiteers fall out with each other.

    David Cameron is the worst prime minister since Lord North. It is quite possible he will retain that title even after Boris has been and gone.
    The coalition years were a relative haven of political sense and maturity...
    Universal credit, Lansley's NHS changes, and almost losing Scotland. Theresa May played a poor hand badly but it is Cameron who dealt the cards.
    Triple lock pensions and the tripling of student fees.
    Borrowing half a trillion and the austerity meme
    Rising house prices and falling home ownership
    Middle Eastern warmongering and European posturing

    If the Conservatives had kept their promises on immigration would we have got Farage ?

    If the LibDems had kept their promises on student fees would we have got Corbyn ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    DavidL said:

    What is an ambassador for? Surely he is there to represent our interests, to build contacts and increase our influence in the administration that he or she is dealing with. The extent to which you might be able to do this will of course vary. I suspect that our ambassador in Tehran has very little scope but the ambassador to our closest ally really has to work at this both with the current administration and future possible administrations.

    An ambassador who has fallen out with the incumbent President to the extent that he is being disinvited to events and meetings, such as Fox's meeting yesterday, are cancelled because of his attendance is not able to do his job. Rather than improving and smoothing relationships he is aggravating them.

    It may be true that this is not Darroch's fault. The leaks of his cables are a disgrace that someone will hopefully be prosecuted for. It may be true also that Trump is a petulant bully who disrespects anyone, close ally or not. It is also true that ultimately who our ambassador is is a matter for us. But he is not doing, cannot do his job.

    In these circumstances is a potential PM really wrong to suggest that Darroch needs to be moved on? None of us like bullies and standing up to them is always going to be more popular than not. But it seems to me that Boris' approach is ultimately more consistent with our national interest than some cheap Love Actually headlines.

    It is in the national interest to ensure that the UK is not seen to allow foreign powers to dictate who should represent us.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what Boris is thinking.

    There's an assumption in that sub clause. May I ask what evidence you have that Boris is capable of thinking?
    Boris is an exceptional politician - charming, personable, entertaining. That he is known as "Boris" is proof of just how effective he is. That he does so despite being an utter spanner just reinforces his exceptional political nous.

    That said, Boris in PM would be entertaining only in the sense of Trump in the White House is entertaining.

    Trump is entertaining in a horrifying way but that's better than being horrifying.

    There are other US Presidents and would-be US Presidents who would now be deep into military action against Iran. Hillary Clinton I suspect would be one such.

    We should be grateful that Trump is more interested in twatter posturing rather than real world doing.
    Why would any other US President be at war with Iran? There was a perfectly good agreement between Iran, the US and Europe that was working. Trump broke it because it was part of Obama's legacy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624
    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Incidentally, that BBC news segment on the ethnicity pay gap was some race-baiting statistically ignorant bullshit. Especially liked the implied racism of whites earning more than other ethnic groups.

    Provided you ignore the Chinese and Indians, of course. And mixed race people. Because nothing says racism like people of mixed racial parentage earning more than the majority race.

    The BBC did report those of Chinese ethnicity earnt most in its report last night
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    That is a terrible statement. Darroch wrote back to the FO like any other Ambassador does. It was not Darroch who leaked the emails.

    Your obsession with Mr Blobby has completely blinded you from reality.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    Darroch has done no such thing whoever leaked the communications and whoever published them has wrecked the relationship with ONE of our allies and ONE of our trading partners.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2019
    Hancock is a sream! It must be something in the name. He's being asked how anyone can have so little principle (my words but an accurate precis of the questions he's being asked).

    What a tart! Is there anything he won't do for a job? Worth listening again. Radio 4 now

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't know what Boris is thinking.

    There's an assumption in that sub clause. May I ask what evidence you have that Boris is capable of thinking?
    Boris is an exceptional politician - charming, personable, entertaining. That he is known as "Boris" is proof of just how effective he is. That he does so despite being an utter spanner just reinforces his exceptional political nous.

    That said, Boris in PM would be entertaining only in the sense of Trump in the White House is entertaining.

    Trump is entertaining in a horrifying way but that's better than being horrifying.

    There are other US Presidents and would-be US Presidents who would now be deep into military action against Iran. Hillary Clinton I suspect would be one such.

    We should be grateful that Trump is more interested in twatter posturing rather than real world doing.
    Why would any other US President be at war with Iran? There was a perfectly good agreement between Iran, the US and Europe that was working. Trump broke it because it was part of Obama's legacy.
    There have been occasions when US presidents have been willing to use military action to 'act tough' or to distract from other stories.

    Hillary's husband had a tendency to that type of military action.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Ed Davey claims only 1/3 of LibDem members have voted so far; everything to play for.

    Perhaps an email link is easier to let slip down the inbox than is a ballot paper on the mantlepiece?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    US tones down rhetoric on Hong Kong.....

    https://twitter.com/ReutersUK/status/1148852289735671808
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    IanB2 said:

    Why are the EU being intransigent on Citizen's rights? There are more EU Citizens in the UK than UK Citizens in the EU...

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148849932654305281

    Barnier is serving his notice and none of the outgoing lot can afford to make big decisions like that now; it'll be left for the new lot who start in November. Another reason why Bozo's deadline doesn't work.
    There will not be a 'new' Barnier though. TF50 is being disbanded and some of them have already moved on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    Yes there are very few options left.

    It has occured to me that there is now a decent chance that Boris will be both blamed for the UK leaving the EU, and blamed for the UK not leaving the EU. That's quite a trick, maybe he's not as incompetent as he appears.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    Why would any other US President be at war with Iran? There was a perfectly good agreement between Iran, the US and Europe that was working. Trump broke it because it was part of Obama's legacy.

    Trump broke it, and yet his adminstration still expect Iran to abide by the terms of the agreement.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    No, they are Remainer establishment Tories who lost 2 general elections out of 3 between them 2 by landslide defeats.

    Much like Bush Snr, Romney and McCain who between them lost 3 out of 4 presidential elections they fought dismissed Trump before he actually won the presidential election
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    nichomar said:

    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?

    Yes (not sure about the latter).

    Even applying to visit the US includes a request for social media handles (although currently you don't have to answer)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    No, they are Remainer establishment Tories who lost 2 general elections out of 3 between them 2 by landslide defeats.

    Much like Bush Snr, Romney and McCain who between them lost 3 out of 4 presidential elections they fought dismissed Trump before he actually won the presidential election
    Comedy gold
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    HYUFD said:

    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination

    That is a really ridiculous comparison. The circumstances are different.

    Imagine if 9/11 had happened on Trump's watch? Do you think he would have responded better, the same, or worse than Bush?

    The same applies with Libya and Syria.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    HMAs are supposed to be able to tell the truth to their superiors. If they can not do their job because any thing they send will be leaked, then it is a pretty disgraceful state of affairs. Whoever did this needs to be dealt with with extreme prejudice.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    There is also the question of loyalty to consider. Loyalty is earned, not bestowed. If everyone knows that the Prime Minister is going to let anyone swing in the wind rather than spend political capital backing up even the most senior professional colleagues, who is going to go out on a limb for him?

    Boris has failed the first test of leadership. Hardly a surprise.

    Yes, "traitor" is a rubbish OTT word here, but "wimp" seems appropriate. I'm not especially bothered by Trump ranting - in his juvenile way, he does that to anyone who criticises him (cf. Sadiq Khan). But we shouldn't let it influence us - that just encourages bullying.

    Whatever one thinks of Corbyn, he can *really* be relied on not to suck up to Donald Trump. I'd expect chilly politeness and an absolute refusal to respond to pressure.

    A pity then Corbyn has been silent and has not stood up for a public servant against the bullying by the US and the cravenness of the Tories.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    More specifically, Major said the JR would be on the PM's advice to HMQ prior to her taking such a decision.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    In a battle between you as spinner for Johnson and Carlotta as spinner for May (can’t let it go) could you both lose, please.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    It’s perhaps unfair to expect someone trying to climb the greasy pole to side with yesterday’s men.
    Even when they are clearly right.

    It is the same process which saw the Republicans become the party of Trump within a couple of years.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    HMAs are supposed to be able to tell the truth to their superiors. If they can not do their job because any thing they send will be leaked, then it is a pretty disgraceful state of affairs. Whoever did this needs to be dealt with with extreme prejudice.
    Agreed. The only way diplomacy can operate - back channels, realpolitik, call it what you like, but it's critical to allowing channels of information to flow so we don't end up nuking each other - is if there are agreed protocols and etiquette. People need to realise that we are now in the age of 'info war', and this is the equivalent to an attack within that theatre. It needs a robust response.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.

    That is looking increasingly true.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    IanB2 said:

    Ed Davey claims only 1/3 of LibDem members have voted so far; everything to play for.

    Perhaps an email link is easier to let slip down the inbox than is a ballot paper on the mantlepiece?

    Yep happened to me. Only realised when I saw people had voted on PB. Had to go and look for it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    Darroch has done no such thing. He was doing his job. The rush on the part of you and other Borisites to attack a public servant for doing his job is disgusting.

    In refusing to back the ambassador Boris is getting close to an Ed Balls/Sharon Shoosmith situation. Remember how much that cost and Shoosmith was not a Darroch. If there is any evidence that Boris was in any way behind the leak, all bets are off.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Stunning that mainstream Conservatism now involves not only being perfectly happy to enable the break-up of the UK, but also complete subservience to the United States.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    That is a terrible statement. Darroch wrote back to the FO like any other Ambassador does. It was not Darroch who leaked the emails.

    Your obsession with Mr Blobby has completely blinded you from reality.
    A slavish devotion to the ideals of Nigel Farage is now the test for public service, apparently.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Stunning that mainstream Conservatism now involves not only being perfectly happy to enable the break-up of the UK, but also complete subservience to the United States.

    It’s not mainstream Conservatism, not as I understand it anyway. The Tory party has died and been replaced by morons from UKIP and the Brexit Party
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    148grss said:

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
    I'm a guilty party as I currently fly across Europe weekly - but it means I know that any amount of tax wouldn't work as given what customers pay for my time even a €2000 flight wouldn't materially impact the cost of me being on site..

    And when I look at my monday morning flight to Schiphol that would be true for everyone on the flight...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    148grss said:

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
    Increased capacity should reduce the time (and fuel and carbon emissions) spent circling or stacking over London waiting for a landing slot to be freed up.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited July 2019
    Is PB really using Mirror hit pieces as proof that Boris is in trouble?

    Scraping the barrel! ;)
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 507

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Because, absent of critical thinking and difficult decisions, there is a certain momentum to how the technosphere operates. This is a good primer: https://en.unesco.org/courier/2018-2/unbearable-burden-technosphere

    The key line in the article is "the technosphere is controversial, not least because of the role – and constraints – it affords to humans. It suggests that we have far less freedom, collectively, to guide the Earth system, than we may think we have."

    There's a nice story about the Space Shuttle's side booster rockets being the width of two horses' backsides. Because that was the width of Roman chariot wheels, which guided the width of railroad gauges, which meant rockets transported to the Cape has to fit on the train. Essentially our technological systems constrain us in far more profound ways that we like to admit, and that includes economic systems and thinking. Ergo, we need to build more airports!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IanB2 said:

    nichomar said:

    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?

    Yes (not sure about the latter).

    Even applying to visit the US includes a request for social media handles (although currently you don't have to answer)
    It’s sad really that there appears to be the need to be 100% behind the party and it’s leading figures (unless there is changing of the guard) to progress when I was approved as a parliamentary candidate for the Liberals in 1985 it was expected that you would not agree with everything and it would go against you if you claimed you agreed with everything.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    No, they are Remainer establishment Tories who lost 2 general elections out of 3 between them 2 by landslide defeats.

    Much like Bush Snr, Romney and McCain who between them lost 3 out of 4 presidential elections they fought dismissed Trump before he actually won the presidential election
    Comedy gold
    Far be it for me to stick up for @HYUFD but where is he factually wrong on any of that assessment?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624
    148grss said:

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
    I wonder if it would be possible to give everyone an air travel allowance either of number or distance of flight.

    If you then allowed 'air miles trading' it would be re-distributive as the rich had to buy extra air-miles from those who couldn't afford air travel.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited July 2019

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Er, without morons like John Major there would never have been an ERM crisis in the first place. :D
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    nichomar said:

    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?

    Yes (not sure about the latter).

    Even applying to visit the US includes a request for social media handles (although currently you don't have to answer)
    It’s sad really that there appears to be the need to be 100% behind the party and it’s leading figures (unless there is changing of the guard) to progress when I was approved as a parliamentary candidate for the Liberals in 1985 it was expected that you would not agree with everything and it would go against you if you claimed you agreed with everything.
    The social media accounts are examined for potential embarrassment or worse, not to check that someone supports the party line.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    HMAs are supposed to be able to tell the truth to their superiors. If they can not do their job because any thing they send will be leaked, then it is a pretty disgraceful state of affairs. Whoever did this needs to be dealt with with extreme prejudice.
    Pandora's Box was opened years ago with Wikileaks.

    Whether we want it to be or not reality is in this digital age leaks are far too easy to do.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Because, absent of critical thinking and difficult decisions, there is a certain momentum to how the technosphere operates. This is a good primer: https://en.unesco.org/courier/2018-2/unbearable-burden-technosphere

    The key line in the article is "the technosphere is controversial, not least because of the role – and constraints – it affords to humans. It suggests that we have far less freedom, collectively, to guide the Earth system, than we may think we have."

    There's a nice story about the Space Shuttle's side booster rockets being the width of two horses' backsides. Because that was the width of Roman chariot wheels, which guided the width of railroad gauges, which meant rockets transported to the Cape has to fit on the train. Essentially our technological systems constrain us in far more profound ways that we like to admit, and that includes economic systems and thinking. Ergo, we need to build more airports!
    Thanks, that looks like an interesting read.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Stunning that mainstream Conservatism now involves not only being perfectly happy to enable the break-up of the UK, but also complete subservience to the United States.

    Both the Conservatives and Labour seem to be run by people who hate their own country.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.

    Nope, that’s not how it works. Deals only change if both parties agree to change them.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    No, they are Remainer establishment Tories who lost 2 general elections out of 3 between them 2 by landslide defeats.

    Much like Bush Snr, Romney and McCain who between them lost 3 out of 4 presidential elections they fought dismissed Trump before he actually won the presidential election
    Comedy gold
    Far be it for me to stick up for @HYUFD but where is he factually wrong on any of that assessment?
    I didn't say that it was factually incorrect, but that it is comedic for him to use phrases like "remainer establishment Tories" (esp when he is a remainer himself) and to try and use the unavoidable '97 loss against Major (esp given his surprise success in '92). HY is sadly willing to twist or misuse any passing fact without shame.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Looks like the two main Unionist rags could be merged.

    The Herald was bought by Flemish media giant Mediahuis in April, and now it looks like The Scotsman is going to the same buyer.

    With collapsing sales, these tired titles have been in austerity measures for decades now, as they have consistently fought against the best interests of their country.

    Pretty much impossible to see how the Antwerp-based owner can keep both titles going. Merge them, or simply close one? The Scotsman is by far the bigger basket case.

    Either way, this is not good news for #RuthForFM

    https://www.insider.co.uk/news/scotsman-publisher-announces-plans-sell-17496529.amp

    https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/belgian-media-group-agrees-e145-6m-buyout-of-irish-news-publisher-inm/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    Never mind popcorn, settle back with a glass of whisky:

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1148853325019975680

    No revolver in the event of the cluster getting just too fucky?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.

    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.
    The government hasn’t changed it is still a conservative government supposedly with a governing majority in HOC it may have moved the clowns around a bit but nothing has changed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
    Less than 50% and thanks for confirming the US is bigger than Germany
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    As a footnote to my fact-check of HYUFD, it was of course the loony fringe (the "bastards") who so destabilised his Government. Faced with a slender majority, they systematically waged their own zealous anti-EU guerrilla war on the party and, by extension, the country.

    Brexit was never about what this country needed, wanted or cared about. It was entirely a bid to sort out 'once and for all' the internal civil war in the Conservative party. We had our occasional smirk whenever the latest piece of EU health & safety legislation seemed to go OTT, but we got on with our lives.

    The delicious irony is that if Johnson, who is an absolutely useless pr1ck, does attempt to govern with his majority of 3, the boot will be on the other foot. He's going to find the one-nation Conservatives, who represent at least 1/3rd of the party, are going to make his life very difficult indeed.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.
    The government hasn't changed - the leader has but the Party of Government is still the same.

    Of course Boris could call an election and then the statement would be true...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
    Darroch not only made highly controversial statements about the administration of our closest ally but wrote them down rather thsn making them in private conversation.

    That is not to approve of the leak but the lack of care
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    nichomar said:

    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?

    The Tory Party is about to become the Boris Party so yes anyone slagging off Boris on social media seeking to become a Tory candidate better be careful
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Streeter said:

    There is also the question of loyalty to consider. Loyalty is earned, not bestowed. If everyone knows that the Prime Minister is going to let anyone swing in the wind rather than spend political capital backing up even the most senior professional colleagues, who is going to go out on a limb for him?

    What I have found utterly depressing is the craven toadying of politicians I have known and liked for many years who have signed up to the manifestly unfit Johnson, presumably in the hope of preferment.
    Mildly amusing to see another Tory ramper (paging Big G) from who’s eyes the scales have fallen.
    You need to review the posts more widely, Streeter. There are many regular and respected posters here on the left and right who have about had it with the two main Parties.

    I am one of them but we are in Catch-22 - We need to move to a fairer voting system but that would require electing a government in favour of doing so but we will never elect a government in favour of doing so because FPTP is propping up the old duopoly and it will never be in their interests to change it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    GIN1138 said:

    Is PB really using Mirror hit pieces as proof that Boris is in trouble?

    Scraping the barrel! ;)

    No, that would be the Conservatives in their choice of leader.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
    Less than 50% and thanks for confirming the US is bigger than Germany
    I see the warped logic now in you’re mind we’ve already left and there is no UK EU trade therefore USA are our largest market. I’ve heard of rewriting history but not rewriting the future.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited July 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Er, without morons like John Major there would never have been an ERM crisis in the first place
    It was under Margaret Thatcher's Premiership that we joined the ERM, in October 1990. If she didn't like it, she should have done something about it.

    And I notice that you haven't responded to my fact-check of HYUFD (because you're stuffed):

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.

    By any party.

    Ever.

    QED.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    Darroch has done no such thing. He was doing his job. The rush on the part of you and other Borisites to attack a public servant for doing his job is disgusting.

    In refusing to back the ambassador Boris is getting close to an Ed Balls/Sharon Shoosmith situation. Remember how much that cost and Shoosmith was not a Darroch. If there is any evidence that Boris was in any way behind the leak, all bets are off.
    I don’t think we should be replacing Darroch but a boss I trusted said that you should only ever put in writing something you would wish to be published on the front of a newspaper. If you cannot put it in language that is diplomatic enough for that then communication should be verbal, and then it is up to whoever receives the advise to take note - this can then be attributed but can be spun as misrepresented if required.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Vote Johnson get Trump. I can see ads involving the Orange skinned racist with a little Boris in his pocket.

    That would be quite a powerful message
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
    Darroch not only made highly controversial statements about the administration of our closest ally but wrote them down rather thsn making them in private conversation.

    That is not to approve of the leak but the lack of care
    You know how ambassadors work do you?

    Your experience in the FCO or even as a senior civil servant is, what, exactly?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. HYUFD, they did, then spent most of the report banging on about whites earning more than all ethnicities (they meant an average, but a basic and accurate reporting of statistics is apparently impossible).

    There was also the implied suggestion that racism's the cause, when it's illegal to pay people more or less based on race.

    Stoking fears of racial discrimination whilst using statistical delinquency to try and paint white people as the bad guys is wretched 'reporting'.

    Fun aside: mixed race people earn more than white people, on average. Hardly speaks of rampant racism...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Major won in 1992 attacking 'Labour's tax bombshell' and because of Kinnock
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
    Less than 50% and thanks for confirming the US is bigger than Germany

    Everyone knows the US is bigger than Germany, just as everyone knows the Single Market is by, a huge distance, our biggest export destination. No amount of sophistry changes that.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    IanB2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    HYUFD will claim that Major and Hague are not “real” Tories.
    No, they are Remainer establishment Tories who lost 2 general elections out of 3 between them 2 by landslide defeats.

    Much like Bush Snr, Romney and McCain who between them lost 3 out of 4 presidential elections they fought dismissed Trump before he actually won the presidential election
    Comedy gold
    Far be it for me to stick up for @HYUFD but where is he factually wrong on any of that assessment?
    I didn't say that it was factually incorrect, but that it is comedic for him to use phrases like "remainer establishment Tories" (esp when he is a remainer himself) and to try and use the unavoidable '97 loss against Major (esp given his surprise success in '92). HY is sadly willing to twist or misuse any passing fact without shame.
    The difference is I respect the Leave vote unlike John Major who seems to have sadly become a diehard Remainer even prepared to use a JR to stop Brexit
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    DavidL said:

    What is an ambassador for? Surely he is there to represent our interests, to build contacts and increase our influence in the administration that he or she is dealing with. The extent to which you might be able to do this will of course vary. I suspect that our ambassador in Tehran has very little scope but the ambassador to our closest ally really has to work at this both with the current administration and future possible administrations.

    An ambassador who has fallen out with the incumbent President to the extent that he is being disinvited to events and meetings, such as Fox's meeting yesterday, are cancelled because of his attendance is not able to do his job. Rather than improving and smoothing relationships he is aggravating them.

    It may be true that this is not Darroch's fault. The leaks of his cables are a disgrace that someone will hopefully be prosecuted for. It may be true also that Trump is a petulant bully who disrespects anyone, close ally or not. It is also true that ultimately who our ambassador is is a matter for us. But he is not doing, cannot do his job.

    In these circumstances is a potential PM really wrong to suggest that Darroch needs to be moved on? None of us like bullies and standing up to them is always going to be more popular than not. But it seems to me that Boris' approach is ultimately more consistent with our national interest than some cheap Love Actually headlines.

    It's just am indication how Trump will bully us in any future trade negotiation. The moment he is not getting his own "America First" way he'll have a tantrum ilke the big man-baby he is.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    eek said:

    eek said:

    It's probably worth posting this

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1148851611936141312

    Just to remind people that the options are really No Deal, May's Deal or Revoke.

    Oh and No Deal will result in us agreeing to May's Deal or a variation of it very quickly as unexpected items occur...

    That was the old British government that agreed to it. Funny thing when governments change so do policies and agreements.
    The government hasn't changed - the leader has but the Party of Government is still the same.

    Of course Boris could call an election and then the statement would be true...
    Governments change when leaders change - hence the term ‘Ministries’.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited July 2019

    As a footnote to my fact-check of HYUFD, it was of course the loony fringe (the "bastards") who so destabilised his Government. Faced with a slender majority, they systematically waged their own zealous anti-EU guerrilla war on the party and, by extension, the country.

    Brexit was never about what this country needed, wanted or cared about. It was entirely a bid to sort out 'once and for all' the internal civil war in the Conservative party. We had our occasional smirk whenever the latest piece of EU health & safety legislation seemed to go OTT, but we got on with our lives.

    The delicious irony is that if Johnson, who is an absolutely useless pr1ck, does attempt to govern with his majority of 3, the boot will be on the other foot. He's going to find the one-nation Conservatives, who represent at least 1/3rd of the party, are going to make his life very difficult indeed.


    Any senior civil servant working for Boris would now be well advised to polish up their CYA-memo writing skills. It’s the civil servants he needs to worry about most. They will know the secrets and have seen how he treats one of their own.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
    Darroch not only made highly controversial statements about the administration
    Which of his statements do you find "highly controversial"?

    Bordering on the 'bleedin obvious' most of 'em....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    OllyT said:

    Vote Johnson get Trump. I can see ads involving the Orange skinned racist with a little Boris in his pocket.

    That would be quite a powerful message
    Equally vote Boris get Farage (just put Boris in Farage's pocket) - any election is going to destroy the Tory party...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
    Less than 50% and thanks for confirming the US is bigger than Germany
    Less than 50%? Thank God, I guess we can totally ignore it then.

    If you feel like giving me a bit under 50% of your money let me know and I will PM you my bank details.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Major won in 1992 attacking 'Labour's tax bombshell' and because of Kinnock
    I don't care how he attacked or who he attacked or why he attacked, all of which show political savvy. As did, at the time, his brilliant soapbox. Fact remains:

    He won the biggest number of votes in a General Election in British history.

    By any party.

    Ever.

    p.s. oh, and your beloved Boris who is up against the worst Labour leader probably in history is currently pulling the Conservatives to around 28%. Wow. Just wow.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
    Darroch not only made highly controversial statements about the administration of our closest ally but wrote them down rather thsn making them in private conversation.

    That is not to approve of the leak but the lack of care
    You know how ambassadors work do you?

    Your experience in the FCO or even as a senior civil servant is, what, exactly?
    Ambassadors are also supposed to represent and sell their country in the country they are Ambassador to, not destroy relations with the government
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    eek said:

    148grss said:

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
    I'm a guilty party as I currently fly across Europe weekly - but it means I know that any amount of tax wouldn't work as given what customers pay for my time even a €2000 flight wouldn't materially impact the cost of me being on site..

    And when I look at my monday morning flight to Schiphol that would be true for everyone on the flight...
    Great, why dont you charge them an extra few hundred a day?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    Darroch has done no such thing. He was doing his job. The rush on the part of you and other Borisites to attack a public servant for doing his job is disgusting.

    In refusing to back the ambassador Boris is getting close to an Ed Balls/Sharon Shoosmith situation. Remember how much that cost and Shoosmith was not a Darroch. If there is any evidence that Boris was in any way behind the leak, all bets are off.
    I don’t think we should be replacing Darroch but a boss I trusted said that you should only ever put in writing something you would wish to be published on the front of a newspaper. If you cannot put it in language that is diplomatic enough for that then communication should be verbal, and then it is up to whoever receives the advise to take note - this can then be attributed but can be spun as misrepresented if required.
    Everything that Darroch has said - and much worse - has been said in two published books by Michael Wolff, whom Trump allowed inside the White House, any by various former advisors and former members of the administration. Far from being controversial they are statements of the bleeding obvious and have been on the front pages of most newspapers around the world since Trump was elected.

    Cui bono? Those who want to get close / even closer to Trump. Boris? Farage? Who else?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    That Yougov polling on Trump is a bit old hat.

    The latest Ashcroft poll this week gives Trump a higher net approval rating with Tory and Leave voters than Cameron, May, Corbyn and Swinson. It is only Remain voters who still give Trump a very high net negative rating and put him last however it is the former Boris needs for victory not the latter, the latter will vote against Boris regardless on the whole.

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/


    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration of our most important ally and trading partner it is right that Boris seeks a new Ambassador when he takes over

    A little less hyperbole might be a good idea.

    Actually if this story leads to a little less eagerness to join the USA in trade agreements and military action it wont be a bad thing.
    Trump has so far engaged in less military action than either W Bush or Obama but the US Remain a our biggest single export destination
    The EU is by far our biggest export destination. Even Germany alone is close behind the US.
    Less than 50% and thanks for confirming the US is bigger than Germany
    Less than 50%? Thank God, I guess we can totally ignore it then.

    If you feel like giving me a bit under 50% of your money let me know and I will PM you my bank details.
    Where did I say ignore them? Boris wants a FTA with the EU as he does with the USA
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Sir Kim Darroch is a secret Nigel
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    In any case given Darroch has total wrecked the relationship of the current government with the administration

    Darroch leaked the messages did he?

    How do you know>
    Darroch should have been more careful what he wrote down
    John Major directly contradicted that. I suspect his experience in that field is greater than yours. His performance was correct in EVERY particular according to Major
    Darroch not only made highly controversial statements about the administration of our closest ally but wrote them down rather thsn making them in private conversation.

    That is not to approve of the leak but the lack of care
    You know how ambassadors work do you?

    Your experience in the FCO or even as a senior civil servant is, what, exactly?
    Ambassadors are also supposed to represent and sell their country in the country they are Ambassador to, not destroy relations with the government
    So no such experience then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Major won in 1992 attacking 'Labour's tax bombshell' and because of Kinnock
    I don't care how he attacked or who he attacked or why he attacked, all of which show political savvy. As did, at the time, his brilliant soapbox. Fact remains:

    He won the biggest number of votes in a General Election in British history.

    By any party.

    Ever.

    p.s. oh, and your beloved Boris who is up against the worst Labour leader probably in history is currently pulling the Conservatives to around 28%. Wow. Just wow.
    17 million voted Leave, 14 million voted for Major.

    On the latest Comres Boris would win a bigger Tory majority than Major got in 1992
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    148grss said:

    Yet the debate was revelatory nonetheless. We can’t now say we haven’t been warned about what a Johnson premiership will involve. On the contrary. His statements and his silences told the story unambiguously.

    He won’t quit if he fails to deliver – as he will fail – on his central promise to get Britain out of the EU by 31 October. He will try to prorogue parliament in order to drive Brexit over the line if he thinks he can get away with it.

    He will sack Sir Kim Darroch as UK ambassador to the United States as soon as he gets his feet under the table and he will cosy up to Donald Trump by making a political appointment to succeed the man Trump called “wacky”.

    He will not override the Democratic Unionist party on LGBT rights in Northern Ireland. The HS2 high-speed rail plan is now as good as dead. And Johnson will kill the third runway at Heathrow and, in all likelihood, revive his plan to move London’s airport to an eye-watering and uncosted site in the Thames estuary which Britain’s sycophantic press will undoubtedly christen Boris Island.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/09/boris-johnson-displays-why-he-will-be-most-ill-qualified-pm-of-modern-times

    On the subject of airports can anyone explain why we're looking to increase airport capacity when we are supposed to be reducing our carbon emissions ?

    It looks like we have a policy from the 1990s (increase airport capacity) at odds with a policy of the 2010s (reduce carbon emissions).
    Yup, if anything we shouldn't be expanding any airports and should be making a frequent flyer tax to pay for decarbonisation and sustainable energy.
    I'm a guilty party as I currently fly across Europe weekly - but it means I know that any amount of tax wouldn't work as given what customers pay for my time even a €2000 flight wouldn't materially impact the cost of me being on site..

    And when I look at my monday morning flight to Schiphol that would be true for everyone on the flight...
    Great, why dont you charge them an extra few hundred a day?
    That's the point - An additional €1000 a day wouldn't impact things...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Mr. HYUFD, they did, then spent most of the report banging on about whites earning more than all ethnicities (they meant an average, but a basic and accurate reporting of statistics is apparently impossible).

    There was also the implied suggestion that racism's the cause, when it's illegal to pay people more or less based on race.

    Stoking fears of racial discrimination whilst using statistical delinquency to try and paint white people as the bad guys is wretched 'reporting'.

    Fun aside: mixed race people earn more than white people, on average. Hardly speaks of rampant racism...

    Don't disagree
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Roger said:

    A comprehensive character assassination of Johnson by John Major on radio 4. Who'd have thought.....

    Yeterday we had an even more surprising interview when William Hague revealed himself to be more impresive than all the current Tory MPs put together. He thinks Johnson is a liar incompetent and unsuitable (my precis)

    It seems the only serious Tory who still hinks Boris has any qualities is our very own HYUFD.

    Given Boris will win about 60 to 70% of Tory members and won over 50% of Tory MPs and John Major led the Tories to their worst election defeat since the Duke of Wellington in 1832 in 1997 and William Hague led the Tories to their second worst voteshare in 2 centuries too, if those 2 supposedly 'serious' Tories are now dismissive of Boris so be it. I used to be respect both but jumping on the anti Boris bandwagon means those 2 are now increasingly out of touch with the Tory base and unable to get over the Leave result.

    I suggest if the Tories want to win the next general election they find out who you most admire and pick the opposite as leader

    Your propensity to select facts at random to fit your fanatic zeal borders on disturbing.

    I'm no great fan of the 1992-7 Government but there are two important facts to bear in mind. One is that John Major won a surprise victory when the country had already grown tired of the long Conservative reign in general and Margaret Thatcher's style in particular. The other is that very shortly after the surprise victory the ERM crisis occurred. It probably would have floored any Government.

    That notwithstanding there's one other teeny-weeny little fact you might in future care not to avoid:

    John Major won the largest number of votes in a General Election in British history.
    Major won in 1992 attacking 'Labour's tax bombshell' and because of Kinnock
    That is a bizarre response. It doesn't respond to Mysticrose point at all (not even responding to the ERM point). At every election there are campaign themes, pros and cons, etc, etc. There was nothing special about 'Labour's tax bombshell' compared to other themes in other elections. Nor the issues over Kinnock; there were themes run on Major as well.

    These themes may have been what won it for the Tories, but it doesn't get away from the facts Mysticrose was pointing out - Major won against the odds, which was probably the downfall of the Tories in 97. Then there was no doubt it was going to be slaughter. If the Tories had lost in 92, 97 would have been a lot different.

    Your response had nothing to do with his/her post.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    If I wanted to be a candidate for a political party would I be expected to give the selection panel access to my social media accounts.? Would that include PB.com?

    The Tory Party is about to become the Boris Party so yes anyone slagging off Boris on social media seeking to become a Tory candidate better be careful
    Boris is a complete fucking arsehole. Now, I must get round to putting myself on the Conservative Party candidates list.

    Meanwhile we won’t take any lectures from remainers such as yourself. You voted remain and frankly no one believes this “conversion” to leave under Boris. Once a remainerr always a remainer. You're fooling no one.
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