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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The YouGov discrepancy: just how badly is LAB doing?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited June 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The YouGov discrepancy: just how badly is LAB doing?

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Test
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    rcs1000 said:

    Test

    Ignored :)
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    rcs1000 said:

    Test

    Twenty20
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Looking at the table above poor old Ipsos Mori seems to be being ignored for some reason. Is it punishment for agreeing wit You Gov?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Or flipping other states obviosly!
    But which ones? SC possibly. FL is the key one. Trump loses if he loses FL. The battleground there is gonna be off the scale.
    Remind me where Trump announced his candidacy?
    Remind me. Has another Republican made a serious announcement of candidacy?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    felix said:

    Looking at the table above poor old Ipsos Mori seems to be being ignored for some reason. Is it punishment for agreeing wit You Gov?

    It is the second poll in the table.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I see the loony right got a bloody nose in the David Gaulke constituency vote.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Quiet on here this morning
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    malcolmg said:

    Quiet on here this morning

    Beautiful summer one though. At least round here!

    Received my letter from the Beeb yesterday, telling me about the new arrangements for over-75's TV licences. For some reason it's in printed in fairly large print; looks about a 20 font!
    It also seems to say that although my previous licence year was March to February the new one will be June to May, as will be everyone else.
    Why do I wonder about the system coping?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good morning, everyone.

    Polling's been tricky in this country even when there were just two large parties vying for government. With a quartet of large parties, plus the SNP in Scotland, it's going to be very hard indeed.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:
    Corbyn has worded tirelessly to ensure he is loathed by all parties, even his own .
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:

    Ha, ha!! Only in the deluded world of a Corbyn cultist is being abandoned by millions of voters a cause for celebration. Magnificent!

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    Where are you on this? Surely you can see Labour have a teensy weensy problem. To win power from opposition you have to be 10-20 points clear.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    On any of these numbers, Labour would go backwards from 2017 in terms of seats.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    With two massively polarising figures like Corbyn and Johnson - loathed by most, adored by a few - I think the key thing to look out for from the polling is the potential for tactical voting. And the message is that there is huge scope for it. I doubt any party is genuinely in front right now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Indeed but I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the average family is lucky to take one holiday a year, not three or more every six months.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    Jonathan said:

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    Where are you on this? Surely you can see Labour have a teensy weensy problem. To win power from opposition you have to be 10-20 points clear.
    Labour might well be the largest party, and able to get confidence and supply from Lib Dems and SNP, but they are nowhere near an overall majority.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191

    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.

    The "Times Investigation" pretty much dominates the online version this morning, under the following headlines...

    Corbyn too frail to be PM, fears civil service

    Bullying, plots and paranoia . . . inside his chaotic bunker

    ‘He doesn’t seem all there’ - taxing regime raises fear for Labour leader’s health

    Labour finances head into the red as members rush for exit

    Rebecca Long Bailey: Corbyn loyalist seen as heir apparent

    Corbyn’s close ally Chris Williamson is suspended again over antisemitism claims

    Meanwhile, over at Mail Online we have...

    Jeremy Corbyn, 70, is 'too frail' to be PM and may be forced to stand down as Labour leader because he is not 'physically or mentally' up to the job, senior civil servants fear


  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:
    Corbyn has worded tirelessly to ensure he is loathed by all parties, even his own .
    Lab on or around where they started the GE2017 campaign. Tories about 20% behind where they were.
  • Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Indeed but I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the average family is lucky to take one holiday a year, not three or more every six months.
    If you are working long stressful hours over long periods breaks are critical to avoid serious mental illness. Holidays are good things whether you’re a GP or average family. Silly to argue otherwise.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:
    Corbyn has worded tirelessly to ensure he is loathed by all parties, even his own .
    Lab on or around where they started the GE2017 campaign. Tories about 20% behind where they were.
    Great to see you back.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Quiet on here this morning

    Beautiful summer one though. At least round here!

    Received my letter from the Beeb yesterday, telling me about the new arrangements for over-75's TV licences. For some reason it's in printed in fairly large print; looks about a 20 font!
    It also seems to say that although my previous licence year was March to February the new one will be June to May, as will be everyone else.
    Why do I wonder about the system coping?
    Very pleasant here as well
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Indeed but I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the average family is lucky to take one holiday a year, not three or more every six months.
    It does sound that the issue is over work rather than under pay. Also she may well have other commitments that require time. It is probably not helped by the penal tax rates due to the pension taper of approximately 100%, above a certain income point.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Re doctor shortages, are there any former Health Secretaries currently running against Telegraph columnists for top jobs?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    I often do long days and it is really stupid, but work from home most of time so no travelling. Sure lots of people are same nowadays.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    Do you guys not spend most of it in your kip or scoffing fish suppers / bacon rolls while watching Netflix.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Indeed but I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting the average family is lucky to take one holiday a year, not three or more every six months.
    plenty can only dream of going on a holiday
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited June 2019

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
  • malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    Do you guys not spend most of it in your kip or scoffing fish suppers / bacon rolls while watching Netflix.
    Nah, Malc, the Cricket World |Cup is taking precedent over Netfilx at the minute.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
    Your employer is an arsehole.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    YouGov are helping covering all the bases so everyone is happy...

    People who don't like Corbyn can just pay attention to the regular YouGov polls and celebrate Labour being in 4th and doomed, the people who like Corbyn can just pay attention to other polls and celebrate Labour being in 1st and well positioned for the next election.

    It doesn't help in terms of arguments though, especially if you have people arguing 'dishonestly' or maybe from genuine ignorance...

    There is no poll that doesn’t show the Labour vote collapsing since the last general election or that indicates Jeremy Corbyn is anything other than immensely unpopular among voters.

    1st place baby!! :smiley:
    Corbyn has worded tirelessly to ensure he is loathed by all parties, even his own .
    Lab on or around where they started the GE2017 campaign. Tories about 20% behind where they were.
    Great to see you back.
    Hear hear! Hope BJO is getting better.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    Do you guys not spend most of it in your kip or scoffing fish suppers / bacon rolls while watching Netflix.
    Nah, Malc, the Cricket World |Cup is taking precedent over Netfilx at the minute.
    :)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    malcolmg said:

    Quiet on here this morning

    Beautiful summer one though. At least round here!

    Received my letter from the Beeb yesterday, telling me about the new arrangements for over-75's TV licences. For some reason it's in printed in fairly large print; looks about a 20 font!
    It also seems to say that although my previous licence year was March to February the new one will be June to May, as will be everyone else.
    Why do I wonder about the system coping?
    I received mine yesterday but of course here in Wales we receive two separate notifications. One in Welsh, one in English

    I very much doubt it will not continue one way or another. Seems politicians of all parties are demanding the matter to be resolved in favour of pensioners, but of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact pensioners vote !!!!!!!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
    In my previous I wasn't knocking what you do, and I agree GP's are on a decent salary, especially compared to some.
    Last week I was watching Essex cricket and Essex won with a day and a half to spare. I was chatting to the lads running the bar, who told me that they were on 'hours worked' contracts so that was a day and a half's pay lost.
    When I had a summer job as a student, on a seaside candy floss stall, we worked a standard day, whether it was raining or not. That, of course, was 60+ years ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
    Your employer is an arsehole.
    No comment!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    They can only take the holidays if cover can be arranged.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Brandy at 7.30 in the morning!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Brandy at 7.30 in the morning!
    Well, it's a Saturday.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Brandy at 7.30 in the morning!
    For teaching, that’s a must.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
    In my previous I wasn't knocking what you do, and I agree GP's are on a decent salary, especially compared to some.
    Last week I was watching Essex cricket and Essex won with a day and a half to spare. I was chatting to the lads running the bar, who told me that they were on 'hours worked' contracts so that was a day and a half's pay lost.
    When I had a summer job as a student, on a seaside candy floss stall, we worked a standard day, whether it was raining or not. That, of course, was 60+ years ago.
    No offence taken. My 18 years doing 12 hour shifts in a chemical plant were harder than most days I've had in my 20 years in the Fire Service. 12 hours is a long day, though, no matter what job you have.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited June 2019
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Brandy at 7.30 in the morning!
    Well, it's a Saturday.
    Calvados, brioche and coffee, maybe. But not until about 10.30, surely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Brandy at 7.30 in the morning!
    Well, it's a Saturday.
    Calvados, brioche and coffee, maybe. But not until about 10.30, surely.
    Nah, no point in waiting. By 10.30 I want to be on proper drinks.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Peasant it should be a nice VSOP Cognac
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
    Whilst medics often have massive egos and can be a pain, I agree it’s a horrible job. I am glad I don’t have to put my finger up arseholes or am compelled to examine scrotal rot. I would need a holiday.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019
    Averaging the data across a month, to give the impression of a static position during a month that hasn’t exactly been quiet on the politics front, is somewhat risky.

    For example, from the YouGov figures it looks as if BXP support has drifted a little during the month, which seems reasonable given their prominence in late May’s political headlines compared to near absence from the news this last month. Mori as good as admitted they need to change their prompting after their last poll, and their 12% looks like an outlier (although the fact that its rating depends so heavily on prompting suggests that BXP support may be rather fragile). Otherwise the 20-23% range seems credible. Say 21%.

    If Mori is low on BXP, their ratings for other parties are going to be too high and need to be shaded down. On this basis the end month position for the Tories looks 20-24%, with all recent polls within MoE of 22%.

    As David highlights, we are left with the single anomaly that YouGov scores Labour lower and the LibDems (and marginally the Greens) higher. The people YouGov is polling appear more energised by the EU/remain issue, by switching from Lab to LD/Green, than are those captured by other pollsters. YouGov can’t avoid polling people who spend more time online, however hard they try to slip political questions in at the end of surveys on skin conditions or shopping habits, and my guess is that these people are following the twists and turns of Brexit more closely than are people responding to the occasional polls from the other companies, some of which use the telephone (weren’t the more accurate EU election polls done by phone)?

    My instinct is that the other companies are nearer the mark and we are probably looking at Lab 25%, Con 22%, BXP 21%, LibDem 17%, Green 7%. So one small consolation for the principal opposition party is that they are, just, in the lead, as they ought to be right now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    Peasant it should be a nice VSOP Cognac
    I'm a Welshman. We're not fussy.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The US Supreme Court has blocked a question on citizenship from the next American census.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-supreme-court-stopped-the-census-citizenship-question-for-now/

    The political effects (and, cynics would argue, why the GOP wants it there) are that it would reduce the apparent size of Democrat-leaning areas before seat boundaries are drawn.

    This is interesting as it closely parallels what the 2010 government did here (some posters complained when I called it gerrymandering). Purge electoral rolls and make registration harder in order to reduce the apparent size of Labour-leaning towns and cities, then use it as the basis for redrawing boundaries. In order to make sure that every constituency is revisited and redrawn, reduce the number of seats to 600.

    One irony is that collateral damage might have included ending Cameron and Osborne's political careers by disproportionately removing Remain-leaning voters before the Brexit referendum. A danger the government belatedly realised, organising a rushed registration campaign in the last days before voting.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    Averaging the data across a month, to give the impression of a static position during a month that hasn’t exactly been quiet on the politics front, is somewhat risky.

    For example, from the YouGov figures it looks as if BXP support has drifted a little during the month, which seems reasonable given their prominence in late May’s political headlines compared to near absence from the news this last month. Mori as good as admitted they need to change their prompting after their last poll, and their 12% looks like an outlier (although the fact that its rating depends so heavily on prompting suggests that BXP support may be rather fragile). Otherwise the 20-23% range seems credible. Say 21%.

    If Mori is low on BXP, their ratings for other parties are going to be too high and need to be shaded down. On this basis the end month position for the Tories looks 20-24%, with all recent polls within MoE of 22%.

    As David highlights, we are left with the single anomaly that YouGov scores Labour lower and the LibDems (and marginally the Greens) higher. The people YouGov is polling appear more energised by the EU/remain issue, by switching from Lab to LD/Green, than are those captured by other pollsters. YouGov can’t avoid polling people who spend more time online, however hard they try to slip political questions in at the end of surveys on skin conditions or shopping habits, and my guess is that these people are following the twists and turns of Brexit more closely than are people responding to the occasional polls from the other companies, some of which use the telephone (weren’t the more accurate EU election polls done by phone)?

    My instinct is that the other companies are nearer the mark and we are probably looking at Lab 25%, Con 22%, BXP 21%, LibDem 17%, Green 7%. So one small consolation for the principal opposition party is that they are, just, in the lead, as they ought to be right now.

    The problem with analysing polling data is that we've no idea whether they're right or not.

    Therefore analysis degenerates rapidly into 'how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    F1: penalty for Sainz puts him to the back of the grid. Shame, as both car and driver have been looking good this weekend so far.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2019
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    Isn't it usual for teachers to live outside their catchment areas so they don't have to run impromptu parents' evenings in the queue at Tesco?

    ETA posh schools reverse this by having parents live outside the catchment area.
  • Today's REALLY big story from The Times:

    Corbyn too frail to be PM, fears civil service
    Labour leader ‘propped up’ by advisers

    Senior civil servants have become increasingly concerned about Jeremy Corbyn’s health and warned that he may be forced to stand down as Labour leader because he is not up to the job “physically or mentally”.

    This story could change everything:: Brexit, Next GE, Next Labour Leader, etc, etc.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    12 hour shifts are a fact of life for thousands of workers, not many of whom will be on anything near the pay of a GP. As my employer likes to tell me if she doesn't like the conditions, she can find another job.
    In my previous I wasn't knocking what you do, and I agree GP's are on a decent salary, especially compared to some.
    Last week I was watching Essex cricket and Essex won with a day and a half to spare. I was chatting to the lads running the bar, who told me that they were on 'hours worked' contracts so that was a day and a half's pay lost.
    When I had a summer job as a student, on a seaside candy floss stall, we worked a standard day, whether it was raining or not. That, of course, was 60+ years ago.
    No offence taken. My 18 years doing 12 hour shifts in a chemical plant were harder than most days I've had in my 20 years in the Fire Service. 12 hours is a long day, though, no matter what job you have.
    Agree I did 12 hour shifts many many years ago and the night ones were horrible, humungous shift uplifts in those days though. Doing a public holiday at over 3x rates was good, weeks wages for one shift. We did get lots of days off though as it was still tied to the 37 hour week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    Isn't it usual for teachers to live outside their catchment areas so they don't have to run impromptu parents' evenings in the queue at Tesco?
    That's common, but it's not as usual as you might think. I would guess about three-quarters of the staff at my school live in the Cannock Chase area. At my last school in Gloucester probably 60% lives within ten miles.

    I did however work at a school in South Wales near Chepstow where the majority of the staff commuted in from Cardiff. That was kind of interesting the day a motorcyclist got killed at Magor and the M4 was shut for five hours.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
    Whilst medics often have massive egos and can be a pain, I agree it’s a horrible job. I am glad I don’t have to put my finger up arseholes or am compelled to examine scrotal rot. I would need a holiday.
    You paint a wonderful picture of life as a medic
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    When I was at school, one of my teachers commuted from Grimsby (about 70-80 miles).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    A relation, originally from a outer London commuter area, moved to Christchurch, New Zealand and found a house he liked half an hour from work. His colleagues asked him how he coped with the long drive to work.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ETA posh schools reverse this by having parents live outside the catchment area.

    Quite a lot of them now live in China.

    Now that really would be a hell of a commute!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Today's REALLY big story from The Times:

    Corbyn too frail to be PM, fears civil service
    Labour leader ‘propped up’ by advisers

    Senior civil servants have become increasingly concerned about Jeremy Corbyn’s health and warned that he may be forced to stand down as Labour leader because he is not up to the job “physically or mentally”.

    This story could change everything:: Brexit, Next GE, Next Labour Leader, etc, etc.

    We've always known about mentally.
  • When I was at school, one of my teachers commuted from Grimsby (about 70-80 miles).

    What's that got to do with the price of fish?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Today's REALLY big story from The Times:

    Corbyn too frail to be PM, fears civil service
    Labour leader ‘propped up’ by advisers

    Senior civil servants have become increasingly concerned about Jeremy Corbyn’s health and warned that he may be forced to stand down as Labour leader because he is not up to the job “physically or mentally”.

    This story could change everything:: Brexit, Next GE, Next Labour Leader, etc, etc.

    Deja vu? Not just on pb but weren't there similar stories about Theresa May and Donald Trump? Not to mention Angela Merkel's shaking episodes.

    Has pb's on-staff medical team noticed Corbyn looking particularly knackered at PMQs?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
    Your very wise. I’ve done 13 years of that, which is about 13 years too long. The latest sickness is a casualisation (if that’s a word) of European working. Whilst a bit of travel is fine, what’s weird is the expectation that you can fit in one/two day trips to places like Berlin as if it were just a normal working day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    A relation, originally from a outer London commuter area, moved to Christchurch, New Zealand and found a house he liked half an hour from work. His colleagues asked him how he coped with the long drive to work.
    :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
    Your very wise. I’ve done 13 years of that, which is about 13 years too long. The latest sickness is a casualisation (if that’s a word) of European working. Whilst a bit of travel is fine, what’s weird is the expectation that you can fit in one/two day trips to places like Berlin as if it were just a normal working day.
    I was asked if I could run a day trip to Auschwitz. And a lot of schools near major airports do.

    Cannock is not near a major airport, so I told them 'no.'
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Interesting thanks. I had not appreciated that there was such a difference between Yougov and the other pollsters. It's a point well made.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Has pb's on-staff medical team noticed Corbyn looking particularly knackered at PMQs?

    He's always looked at least 10-15 years older than he actually is.

    Putin is looking old (and more weird than normal) at the G20.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
    Challenging though that all is, they knew (or at least should have known) what the job entails before they went into it. It’s not like medicine is an undersubscribed course at universities, plenty of people want to do it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
    Challenging though that all is, they knew (or at least should have known) what the job entails before they went into it. It’s not like medicine is an undersubscribed course at universities, plenty of people want to do it.
    It's easy to think at 18 you will be able to cope, and to find out at 30 you thought wrong.

    Cf teaching...
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    On, feck.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/29/labour-to-propose-wellbeing-law

    Labour did this in Wales,. They introduced a Wellbeing of Future Generations Act, which requires decisions to be measured against a range of long-term outcomes, including public health, the environment and social cohesion.

    It has been used in the most ridiculous cases.

    In my North Walian home town, a empty bulding was bought by an English property rapist who wanted to turn into a vast hostel for drunken stag party and hen nights.

    It was properly & promptly turned down at Planning Committee. For a start, the building is listed and in a National Park.

    The property developer appealed to the Welsh Government, who promptly cited the Wellbeing of Future Generations Act as a reason to force it through.

    It is a truly ridiculous piece of posturing, that is so vaguely framed and vaguely intentioned that it can be used to justify almost anything.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.

    I must say that he has never come across as frail to me. Stupid certainly but not frail.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    F1 in being intensely stupid shocker:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48806595

    Silverstone's future as a venue is at risk because the bigwigs idiotically want a race in (or just outside) London. Yeah, let's risk a good circuit for an identikit street track in the same sodding country.

    Morons.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
    Your very wise. I’ve done 13 years of that, which is about 13 years too long. The latest sickness is a casualisation (if that’s a word) of European working. Whilst a bit of travel is fine, what’s weird is the expectation that you can fit in one/two day trips to places like Berlin as if it were just a normal working day.
    Often for Europeans, it is. My Berlin-based manager would think nothing of driving to meet the Czech or Polish teams. It is, one imagines, the same convenience that has eased tensions in Ireland.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    edited June 2019
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    How many shifts per week, though? And how much is 'pressure time'; are you out life-saving all the 12 hours, every 12 hours?

    The big issue, I suspect, having 'watched' GP's at work is that you don't know what's going to walk through the surgery door next, and each time you've 10 minutes to assess and make a decision about whatever it is.
    And many of the patients will expect you to have instant recall of the issues involved.
    Think it would be easier writing a prescription than climbing up ladders with hoses whilst flames are all around.
    Could still be stressful but they do get paid shedloads and can afford to take several nice holidays as per original post.
    Not terribly easy telling people they are terminally ill, or going to have to have brutal treatment that will permanently disfigure them, or that they're going to progressively lose the ability to walk.

    Which all GPs have to do on a regular - even daily - basis.

    Must be soul destroying. I work long hours under difficult conditions but no way could I deal with that.
    Whilst medics often have massive egos and can be a pain, I agree it’s a horrible job. I am glad I don’t have to put my finger up arseholes or am compelled to examine scrotal rot. I would need a holiday.
    Biology is biology, so doing rectal exams, looking at sputum or mouldy feet is generally not a big issue.

    The tough stuff is psychological. The dread of missing something serious, constant attention to get at the underlying issues, the massive amount of mental distress, the perpetual queue outside the door, breaking bad news then greeting the next patient with a smile.

    I work in the hospital sector, but take my cap off to my GP colleagues, who have to work across all specialities and with a minimum of investigations. To do it well requires great clinical skills.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Putney, well, he was a maths teacher.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534

    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.

    Colour me sceptical. It would be extremely unusual for civil servants to express opinions about the state of health (or indeed anything else about) politicians. To then casually talk to the press about it is even more unlikely.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
    Your very wise. I’ve done 13 years of that, which is about 13 years too long. The latest sickness is a casualisation (if that’s a word) of European working. Whilst a bit of travel is fine, what’s weird is the expectation that you can fit in one/two day trips to places like Berlin as if it were just a normal working day.
    Often for Europeans, it is. My Berlin-based manager would think nothing of driving to meet the Czech or Polish teams. It is, one imagines, the same convenience that has eased tensions in Ireland.
    The nonsense you have to wrap around air travel is what kills it. Around 2-3hrs each side of the flight (tube+check in), even before the inevitable delays.

    From my point of view this trend is one of the biggest factors warping the U.K. economy. The need for offices to be near airports forces them into fewer big cities. This creating hotspots of wealth and rural ghost towns.

    Brexit ironically has made that worse.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    edited June 2019
    Mr. Palmer, didn't a former Cabinet Secretary recently come out for Remain?

    Edited extra bit: to clarify, we live in unusual times and many old conventions and etiquette seems to be getting jettisoned.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    F1 in being intensely stupid shocker:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48806595

    Silverstone's future as a venue is at risk because the bigwigs idiotically want a race in (or just outside) London. Yeah, let's risk a good circuit for an identikit street track in the same sodding country.

    Morons.

    Perhaps not pie in the sky:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-40945691
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    OT first world problems and the shortage of GPs.

    The parent of a GP has written to the Telegraph to say their GP daughter is exhausted working 11-hour days so will scale back to three days a week.

    The effect is rather spoiled by adding she has managed only two holidays this year.

    11 hour days are unsustainable and holidays are a good thing.
    Us 12 hour shift workers say hello.
    I had a 15 hour day on Weds, it was fecking stupid. Long hours are stupid.
    Well, you're clearly not a teacher. We don't have the luxury of short days like that.

    (Imagine that said with a Yorkshire accent, while I'm sipping a brandy.)
    As a teacher, I suspect that you didn’t have a four hour commute.

    (References lakes and gravel)
    Four hours each way, or four hours total?

    One of my colleagues does indeed have a two hour commute into work and the same home again.

    Yes, I think he's mad as well.
    That’s potty. One of the few remaining joys of teaching is being able to work outside cities and avoid long commutes.
    I can cycle to work. After years of long commutes all over the country, especially to the shi....London, it's blissful.

    No way do I ever want to go back to the long distance commutes I had in my 20s.
    Your very wise. I’ve done 13 years of that, which is about 13 years too long. The latest sickness is a casualisation (if that’s a word) of European working. Whilst a bit of travel is fine, what’s weird is the expectation that you can fit in one/two day trips to places like Berlin as if it were just a normal working day.
    I was asked if I could run a day trip to Auschwitz. And a lot of schools near major airports do.

    Cannock is not near a major airport, so I told them 'no.'
    I wouldn't want to do a day trip there, and not just because of the geography of getting there. Such a trip needs time for reflection and discussion afterwards to be meaningful. It is too horrible to hurry.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    And the big news this morning is that those trade opportunities beyond Europe that the Brexiteers were so keen we should exploit appear to be opening up:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48807161
  • This morning's second biggest story, this time from The Daily Telegraph:

    :"George Osborne plots political comeback as he sets sights on marginal seat"

    The seat in question is Kensinton, where Labour currently has a majority of 20.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    As someone is self employed I can sometimes work 18 hours a day and sometimes 3 or 4, most of it on PB. I have been doing this for nearly 20 years now and it took quite some time to break old habits of core working hours and feeling the guilt that a time sheet used to give you. The key is to actually allow yourself to relax when the opportunity arises and make the flexibility work for you.

    I would really struggle working regular hours again. Its one of the reasons (apart from incompetence) that I have not sought judicial office of any kind. I am fortunate and from my fortunate vantage find it bizarre that so many employers still focus on attendance instead of results. I have noted more employers accepting more flexible arrangements but it is still an absurdly rare exception.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.

    Colour me sceptical. It would be extremely unusual for civil servants to express opinions about the state of health (or indeed anything else about) politicians. To then casually talk to the press about it is even more unlikely.
    I smell a rat too.

    There are many reasons to think Jezza is unsuited to be PM, but physical health and mental stamina are not amongst them. He has a healthy lifestyle and appears to be in robust health.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    Looking at the table above poor old Ipsos Mori seems to be being ignored for some reason. Is it punishment for agreeing wit You Gov?

    It is the second poll in the table.
    Yet gets no mention in the text.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    According to the BBC, The Times has a headline suggesting that 'A Times investigation claims senior civil servants are increasingly concerned about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn's health. The paper says officials warned Mr Corbyn, 70, may be forced to stand down from the job because he was not "physically or mentally" fit for it, and had become "too frail". A party spokesman said Mr Corbyn was in good health and led an active life.'

    Hmmm.

    Colour me sceptical. It would be extremely unusual for civil servants to express opinions about the state of health (or indeed anything else about) politicians. To then casually talk to the press about it is even more unlikely.
    I agree.

    Moreover, even speaking as somebody who is hardly Corbyn's biggest fan, how would they know and at this moment, why would his health be any of their damn business?
This discussion has been closed.