politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A reminder of how well each pollster did at last month’s Euros
With the Tory leadership race taking place and the unique situation where party members will be electing a new PM there’s increasing focus on the polls and the possibility that the new leader could seek to call a general election.
A late Autumn election might be best for everyone. There aren't the votes for anything in this parliament so sans proroguing, nothing will get through. Greening, Lee and Grieve sacrificing their Tory careers could well be the best route out to break the deadlock. People might not like the future parliament either but it'll probably give us the votes for either a revocation/another referendum or just to leave come what may.
One day someone will do their Psychology PhD on why grown men do "First!" posts on new forum threads.
In the old days, the mods used to have a test post, which they'd delete an hour or so later, consequently buggering up all the post numbers. Jumpers for goalposts.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
Panelbase have now published the detailed tables from yesterday’s Sunday Times poll of Scottish voters (sample: 1,024). Great poll for the SLDs who have the only statistically significant change in VI.
Westminster VI - Scotland SNP 38% (nc) Con 18% (nc) Lab 17% (-2) Lib Dem 13% (+3) Brexit Party 9% (nc) Greens 2% UKIP <1% Change UK <1%
In the context of the wider GB polling , those figures are not surprising. On the basis of the weekend polls which showed Labour on 26% , their GB share has dropped 14% since 2017. Panelbase shows a 10% drop in Scotland.
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
(FPT)Farage has about 20% of the electorate who wish to vote for the Brexit party at the next election. What he does or doesn't do is as important as any of the other (Or presumptive other) actors leading the parties with substantial support and/or seat potential in the next GE - Corbyn, Johnson, Swinson, Sturgeon & Foster...
I don’t disagree. But from the POV of the Tories, any proposed electoral pact is mischief making, and very much to their future disadvantage. And if we’re talking about a snap election, wholly impractical to agree nationally; the rushed negotiations would be incredibly divisive.
I don’t particularly care about the Conservative party, but nor do I wish to see it supplanted (or taken over) by a Faragist vehicle.
Panelbase have now published the detailed tables from yesterday’s Sunday Times poll of Scottish voters (sample: 1,024). Great poll for the SLDs who have the only statistically significant change in VI.
Westminster VI - Scotland SNP 38% (nc) Con 18% (nc) Lab 17% (-2) Lib Dem 13% (+3) Brexit Party 9% (nc) Greens 2% UKIP <1% Change UK <1%
SLab look well and truly shafted. Unbelievably weak leadership in Scotland, unfit to govern in London, and 10 points down on UK GE 2017, with another UK GE imminent. Add in demotivated, talentless, decimated ground troops and they are about to lie back and think of England.
Panelbase have now published the detailed tables from yesterday’s Sunday Times poll of Scottish voters (sample: 1,024). Great poll for the SLDs who have the only statistically significant change in VI.
Westminster VI - Scotland SNP 38% (nc) Con 18% (nc) Lab 17% (-2) Lib Dem 13% (+3) Brexit Party 9% (nc) Greens 2% UKIP <1% Change UK <1%
SLab look well and truly shafted. Unbelievably weak leadership in Scotland, unfit to govern in London, and 10 points down on UK GE 2017, with another UK GE imminent. Add in demotivated, talentless, decimated ground troops and they are about to lie back and think of England.
Neck and neck with the Tories. I noticed that the Survation subsample came up with - SNP 35 Lab 24 Con 8.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
Election campaigns were much shorter in those days - in both 1974 elections there was only 3 weeks from announcement to polling day.
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
Jellyfish Johnson.
Drifts with the tide, and you can see right through him.
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
Boris has thought this through like a master tactician then?
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
Thursday October 10th 1974 was my first day at university (I'd voted at home that morning). Can remember almost everything, including staying up all night for the results. 45 years ago.....I'm old.
I'm reminded of Camerons description of UKIP members as "Fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" Looking at the recent polling of Tory members, in particular about giving up the union, economic stability and the Tory party just to secure their precious Brexit, I find I'm seeing the Tory membership that way. How are they any different - I know several will read this so I wonder if they feel the same way about their fellow travellers.
The country won't tolerate what the Tory membership are demanding, another facet of the total impasse.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
You might well be right, but if you are that really would be taking a disaster and doing everything in our power to make it much worse. Not only would it maximise the uncertainty so that businesses wouldn't even have a week's notice, it would also mean that there would be zero parliamentary time and no functioning government to set up the emergency legislation, regulatory changes, and international notifications which would be indispensable in the event of a no-deal crash-out.
In any vaguely rational country it would be unthinkable. But given where we are..
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
You might well be right, but if you are that really would be taking a disaster and doing everything in our power to make it much worse. Not only would it maximise the uncertainty so that businesses wouldn't even have a week's notice, it would also mean that there would be zero parliamentary time and no functioning government to set up the emergency legislation, regulatory changes, and international notifications which would be indispensable in the event of a no-deal crash-out.
In any vaguely rational country it would be unthinkable. But given where we are..
You can't go into a No Deal Brexit without a lot of legal paperwork which hasn't been done yet. Any idea that we will have an election in October is pie in the sky.
And I expect the Stop Brexit tactical voting sites are already in progress..
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
I think it's quite smart - he's talking about bottling the debates, but he's really saying that Boris won't really dare to go for no-deal in October, which is supposedly Boris's main selling point. Uses a very present issue to tap into the membership priority.
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
Thursday October 10th 1974 was my first day at university (I'd voted at home that morning). Can remember almost everything, including staying up all night for the results. 45 years ago.....I'm old.
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
Doesn't start with a Bee.
I like 'Jitters Johnson'.
Or 'Barking Boris'.
Or in language he might understand, Boris the Caitiff Recreant.
'Bottler Boris' isn't very good. Too hackneyed and the wrong connotations. No-one thinks Boris is like Gordon Brown, you'd be hard-pressed to think of two more different people.
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
Doesn't start with a Bee.
I like 'Jitters Johnson'.
Or 'Barking Boris'.
Or in language he might understand, Boris the Caitiff Recreant.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
If Parliament votes him down a general election might not happen, we'd have 14 days for someone else to try and cobble together a majority in the Commons.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
But that will no stop people complaining (like 2010). The howling will be deafening. May will have to have serious support from her ex cabinet to carry on.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
The 22 have no rules they'd need to change. Boris would be Tory leader and May won't be. The 22 have no jurisdiction on anything other than that.
If she tries to cling on in Parliament rather than resign then Corbyn would table a VONC and Tory MPs could justifiably back it/abstain since the government would not be one led by the party anymore.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
But that will no stop people complaining (like 2010). The howling will be deafening. May will have to have serious support from her ex cabinet to carry on.
I'm not sure she particularly needs Cabinet support. She has nothing to lose; and the default position is that she remains in place until either someone can be recommended, or a GE is held, as said above.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
If Parliament votes him down a general election might not happen, we'd have 14 days for someone else to try and cobble together a majority in the Commons.
Someone like Hillary Benn or Ken Clarke.
That would take about 300 MPs defecting from the Labour and Tory parties.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
The membership are deciding who will be the leader of the Conservative Party. If the person elected by the membership cannot command a majority in the House of Commons they will not be Prime Minister. This isn't a matter of Theresa May overturning the choice of the membership. It is the way our politics works. If the candidate chosen by the membership cannot command a majority they would face an immediate VONC in the Commons. Nothing the membership or the 1922 Committee can do about that. And if Theresa May tells the Queen that her successor as party leader cannot command a majority and recommends seeing if Corbyn can put a government together, there is nothing the 1922 Committee can do about that either.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
I think if Boris is elected and no one resigns the Tory whip - TM will step down. The problem occurs if 2 (or more) MP's resign the whip as Boris is elected - that puts May in a very difficult position.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
You might well be right, but if you are that really would be taking a disaster and doing everything in our power to make it much worse. Not only would it maximise the uncertainty so that businesses wouldn't even have a week's notice, it would also mean that there would be zero parliamentary time and no functioning government to set up the emergency legislation, regulatory changes, and international notifications which would be indispensable in the event of a no-deal crash-out.
In any vaguely rational country it would be unthinkable. But given where we are..
Whatever happened to the Henry VIII powers to smooth regulatory changes that were mooted?
But that will no stop people complaining (like 2010). The howling will be deafening. May will have to have serious support from her ex cabinet to carry on.
We are in uncharted waters here, but bear in mind that it's ultimately the Queen who appoints the new PM, on the advice of the outgoing PM and if necessary palace officials. The test that the palace will apply is who can command a majority. If it looks as though no-one can, which seems quite possible, then it's unclear what happens (especially with the complication of the Fixed-Term Parliament Act), but the default is that the existing PM remains in post.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
I think if Boris is elected and no one resigns the Tory whip - TM will step down. The problem occurs if 2 (or more) MP's resign the whip as Boris is elected - that puts May in a very difficult position.
It'll either be the 17th or the 24th. Simply put the Tories won't have the votes to do anything at all, hence the need for a fresh mandate. The idea being that wets like Grieve will either (a) be deselected or (b) be outvoted post election.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
You might well be right, but if you are that really would be taking a disaster and doing everything in our power to make it much worse. Not only would it maximise the uncertainty so that businesses wouldn't even have a week's notice, it would also mean that there would be zero parliamentary time and no functioning government to set up the emergency legislation, regulatory changes, and international notifications which would be indispensable in the event of a no-deal crash-out.
In any vaguely rational country it would be unthinkable. But given where we are..
Whatever happened to the Henry VIII powers to smooth regulatory changes that were mooted?
Very interesting. Hilary Benn or Kenneth Clarke may be as likely as JC to find a majority, in both cases as a GNU. Suspect there are lots of people who would be delighted to be party to stopping Boris running the country - about as many as there are determined to stop JC doing so.
Could a moderate tradition pull us back from the brink before we become the USA?
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
I think if Boris is elected and no one resigns the Tory whip - TM will step down. The problem occurs if 2 (or more) MP's resign the whip as Boris is elected - that puts May in a very difficult position.
2 is not enough, probably need closer to 10.
What is today's Tory Government majority (isn't it 3)...
I actually think Boris is being badly advised in not doing the debates.
To be honest I dont think much of his strategist.
All Boris is doing is reinforcing he has something to hide. He is giving politicians a bad name!
His inadequecy for leadership of the country is glearingly obvious. Hunt is by far the best candidate. I would advise any Tory member to vote for Hunt...
As Boris is such a fine hider, perhaps we should have Wally stand against Hunt?
They seek him here, they seek him there ...
This is not doing Hunt any good. He needs to think about spending some of his squillions on advertising, otherwise he is just letting Boris run down the clock.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
Very interesting. Hilary Benn or Kenneth Clarke may be as likely as JC to find a majority, in both cases as a GNU. Suspect there are lots of people who would be delighted to be party to stopping Boris running the country - about as many as there are determined to stop JC doing so.
Could a moderate tradition pull us back from the brink before we become the USA?
400 MPs willing to ditch their own careers and able to agree amongst themselves that today is Monday. Good luck finding those unicorns.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
The irony is that Boris is best off being VONC'ed into an election, isn't he?
Very interesting. Hilary Benn or Kenneth Clarke may be as likely as JC to find a majority, in both cases as a GNU. Suspect there are lots of people who would be delighted to be party to stopping Boris running the country - about as many as there are determined to stop JC doing so.
Could a moderate tradition pull us back from the brink before we become the USA?
Tribal loyalties have a remarkable power in stopping people vote for what they would themselves want, though.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
The irony is that Boris is best off being VONC'ed into an election, isn't he?
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
I think if Boris is elected and no one resigns the Tory whip - TM will step down. The problem occurs if 2 (or more) MP's resign the whip as Boris is elected - that puts May in a very difficult position.
2 is not enough, probably need closer to 10.
What is today's Tory Government majority (isn't it 3)...
Around that officially (3 or 4?) but effective majority a bit bigger.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
The irony is that Boris is best off being VONC'ed into an election, isn't he?
I think so. It gives him the excuse he needs to deselect the hardline Remainers.
So anyone who votes against him is committing career suicide. The whole thing this becomes a high stakes game of chicken. On present form, Johnson is ill equipped to win.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
The irony is that Boris is best off being VONC'ed into an election, isn't he?
Polling of Tory members. There is a problem here, isn't there?
A third of the party joined in the past year. Whether entryists or not, they presumably differ in their thinking from longer-established members.
The panels are, one imagines, already full to the brim with old-school Conservative members, so will miss out the entryists.
New Tory member here, joined last September. I'm not even 40 yet, voted remain but not that bothered about Brexit, I joined to choose a leader who can stop Corbyn. Previously voted LibDem in more than one election, so I'm certainly not an entryist Farage supporter. Briefly looked into joining the ConHome panel but couldn't see how to do so.
If it wasn't for Brexit I'd be voting for Hunt but genuinely undecided at the moment.
Polling of Tory members. There is a problem here, isn't there?
A third of the party joined in the past year. Whether entryists or not, they presumably differ in their thinking from longer-established members.
The panels are, one imagines, already full to the brim with old-school Conservative members, so will miss out the entryists.
New Tory member here, joined last September. I'm not even 40 yet, voted remain but not that bothered about Brexit, I joined to choose a leader who can stop Corbyn. Previously voted LibDem in more than one election, so I'm certainly not an entryist Farage supporter. Briefly looked into joining the ConHome panel but couldn't see how to do so.
If it wasn't for Brexit I'd be voting for Hunt but genuinely undecided at the moment.
I expect when push and shove come all Tories less perhaps Lee (The sole abstention ?) will allow Boris to become PM - but several will reserve the right to VONC should he go for "No deal".
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
That's probably right. If however the DUP were to pop up and say 'Never! Never! Never!', then we'd be in a different situation.
The irony is that Boris is best off being VONC'ed into an election, isn't he?
But that will no stop people complaining (like 2010). The howling will be deafening. May will have to have serious support from her ex cabinet to carry on.
We are in uncharted waters here, but bear in mind that it's ultimately the Queen who appoints the new PM, on the advice of the outgoing PM and if necessary palace officials. The test that the palace will apply is who can command a majority. If it looks as though no-one can, which seems quite possible, then it's unclear what happens (especially with the complication of the Fixed-Term Parliament Act), but the default is that the existing PM remains in post.
The responsibility of May (and indeed the new Tory leader and others) is to avoid putting the Queen in a difficult position. May should only resign when she has a clear successor as PM.
I would hope that whoever becomes Tory leader quickly stomps on any howls of conspiracy and thanks May publicly for providing the space for him to form a government.
Fat chance of that if it's Boris and the crazy gang. But it's a nice idea.
Theresa May will not overturn the choice of the Tory Membership, if she tries this, she will find the 22 committee quickly changes the rules on VONC on her and we will have PM Boris and if parlaiment votes him down then we have a General Election
It wouldn't be her 'trying' anything, it is the constitutional position that a new PM is appointed only if it looks as though he or she will command the confidence of the House. Until such a person emerges, the previous PM remains in post, as per 2010. And it has zilch to do with the 1922 committee.
I think if Boris is elected and no one resigns the Tory whip - TM will step down. The problem occurs if 2 (or more) MP's resign the whip as Boris is elected - that puts May in a very difficult position.
2 is not enough, probably need closer to 10.
What is today's Tory Government majority (isn't it 3)...
Around that officially (3 or 4?) but effective majority a bit bigger.
The issue is that not all independents/CHUK will vote down the Government. Nobody knows how many will, but some will be thinking they will be out of a job by autumn.
Very interesting. Hilary Benn or Kenneth Clarke may be as likely as JC to find a majority, in both cases as a GNU. Suspect there are lots of people who would be delighted to be party to stopping Boris running the country - about as many as there are determined to stop JC doing so.
Could a moderate tradition pull us back from the brink before we become the USA?
Tribal loyalties have a remarkable power in stopping people vote for what they would themselves want, though.
Glad to see the Cabinet officials catching up with us on PB We've been debating this for days!
Comments
Greening, Lee and Grieve sacrificing their Tory careers could well be the best route out to break the deadlock.
People might not like the future parliament either but it'll probably give us the votes for either a revocation/another referendum or just to leave come what may.
Can I have some research money, please?
Afternoon all
Just to note - the last time we had an October election was 1974.
Wilson announced via a live tv and radio address on September 18th he was going to the country and the vote took place on October 10th.
Curiously, October 10th is a Thursday this year as well but the Conservatives lost the 1974 contest.
One option might be to call the election for Thursday October 17th so that would mean a truncated Party Conference season and the new Government would have two weeks (and presumably a mandate) to tell the EU what would happen next.
A third of the party joined in the past year. Whether entryists or not, they presumably differ in their thinking from longer-established members.
The panels are, one imagines, already full to the brim with old-school Conservative members, so will miss out the entryists.
Guess so. The Kippers in particular have been joining in droves exactly for this moment.
Both major parties will probably be looking to defend themselves against this better in future.
Panelbase have now published the detailed tables from yesterday’s Sunday Times poll of Scottish voters (sample: 1,024). Great poll for the SLDs who have the only statistically significant change in VI.
Westminster VI - Scotland
SNP 38% (nc)
Con 18% (nc)
Lab 17% (-2)
Lib Dem 13% (+3)
Brexit Party 9% (nc)
Greens 2%
UKIP <1%
Change UK <1%
https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/ST-Tables-for-publication-200619.pdf
ElectoralCalculus gives following seat distribution:
SNP 50 seats (+15)
Lib Dems 5 seats (+1)
Con 3 seats (-10)
Lab 1 seat (-6)
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?SCOTCON=18&SCOTLAB=17&SCOTLIB=13&SCOTNAT=38&SCOTBrexit=9&SCOTGreen=2&SCOTUKIP=&type=scotland&display=AllChanged®orseat=(none)&boundary=2017base</p>
Malcolmg said:
'Labour well on way to recovery I see '
In the context of the wider GB polling , those figures are not surprising. On the basis of the weekend polls which showed Labour on 26% , their GB share has dropped 14% since 2017. Panelbase shows a 10% drop in Scotland.
What was the rhyming slang for a 2:1?
A First was a Geoff (Hurst)
A 2:2 was a Desmond
A Third was a Douglas (Hurd)
But was a 2:1?
'Frit Boris' might be better. The faithful would pick up the echo.
And if we’re talking about a snap election, wholly impractical to agree nationally; the rushed negotiations would be incredibly divisive.
I don’t particularly care about the Conservative party, but nor do I wish to see it supplanted (or taken over) by a Faragist vehicle.
Well he’s been offered a £12 million a year deal out there but Rafa wants to remain in England/or a big European league.
Drifts with the tide, and you can see right through him.
Occasionally venomous.
https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1143130190966611968
I like 'Jitters Johnson'.
Or 'Barking Boris'.
As for renegotiation, what renegotiation? The Tory pitch will be "vote Conservative this Thursday (24th) and we leave the EU next Thursday (31st). That way the train leavers mentioned in the tweet all vote Tory instead of Farage to get it done.
2 women, 1 man. All under 40. The man was a Muslim.
Highly representative I thought to myself - not.
The country won't tolerate what the Tory membership are demanding, another facet of the total impasse.
In any vaguely rational country it would be unthinkable. But given where we are..
As Boris is such a fine hider, perhaps we should have Wally stand against Hunt?
And I expect the Stop Brexit tactical voting sites are already in progress..
Someone like Hillary Benn or Ken Clarke.
If she tries to cling on in Parliament rather than resign then Corbyn would table a VONC and Tory MPs could justifiably back it/abstain since the government would not be one led by the party anymore.
Could a moderate tradition pull us back from the brink before we become the USA?
To be honest I dont think much of his strategist.
All Boris is doing is reinforcing he has something to hide. He is giving politicians a bad name!
His inadequecy for leadership of the country is glearingly obvious. Hunt is by far the best candidate. I would advise any Tory member to vote for Hunt...
The renegotiation fiction will hold for kissing hands.
Edit - For epic trolling they should take their seats on July 12th,
So anyone who votes against him is committing career suicide. The whole thing this becomes a high stakes game of chicken. On present form, Johnson is ill equipped to win.
If it wasn't for Brexit I'd be voting for Hunt but genuinely undecided at the moment.
I would hope that whoever becomes Tory leader quickly stomps on any howls of conspiracy and thanks May publicly for providing the space for him to form a government.
Fat chance of that if it's Boris and the crazy gang. But it's a nice idea.