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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Brecon & Radnor recall petition succeeds and an early by-e

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  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Remember it so well. It was live on Radio 4. At the last minute Jim appealed in his speech to successive members opposite. A lot of commentators thought he'd swung it back. But as you say, sensationally, he lost by 1 vote and the rest, as they say, is history.
    The government whips knew the numbers were within a few votes and tried all sorts of blandishments to get Frank Maguire (Independent Nationalist for Fermanagh and South Tyrone) to vote for the government. He abstained in person. Had Maguire voted for the government a tie would have had the Speaker vote to maintain the status quo.

    A counter factual looms ....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    It will fall to 2 if an opposition party wins the by-election.
    3 surely?

    It was 5 this morning wasn't it? Or not. It's getting so tight it's quite hard to work out!
    I think your figures are correct given that Labour supplies two Deputy Speakers with the Tories supplying just one.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Seems even among the lefties is my office Mark Field is getting huge support. I think the main consideration is the 'victim' is a professional protester not a member of the public.

    Reckon the hand wringers and Theresa May have misjudged the public mood on this one (again).
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    If a General Election is called then the by-election is cancelled even if the writ has been moved already right?

    That's what happened with Gorton in 2017
    Does the writ for the by election get moved immediately? Or can it be delayed a while until the leadership contest is over and potentially a General Election is called?

    I seem to recall a by-election writ in late 2009 or early 2010 not being moved for about 6 months until it became moot.
    I think that the writ is automatically triggered by the Speaker when is he is formally informed of the petition outcome.
    No - Nick Brown moved the writ for Peterborough.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    If a General Election is called then the by-election is cancelled even if the writ has been moved already right?

    That's what happened with Gorton in 2017
    Does the writ for the by election get moved immediately? Or can it be delayed a while until the leadership contest is over and potentially a General Election is called?

    I seem to recall a by-election writ in late 2009 or early 2010 not being moved for about 6 months until it became moot.
    I think that the writ is automatically triggered by the Speaker when is he is formally informed of the petition outcome.
    I've never understood why political parties get to decide the date of by-elections.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvLI_S7vN_8

    There you go. Edit: this is it. Bad quality though.

    Thanks. Just watched all three. As far as I am concerned, that is the end of the matter.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    I make it three? 312 CON MPs. 10 DUP = 322.
    1 vacant. 7 not attending. 1 Speaker.
    Opposed 319 [1] [2]

    [1] I always get confused with Deputy Speakers - are they allowed to vote or not?
    [2] I realise Nick Boles and Lady Herman may be counted upon to support the government, but not technically?
    Actually that looks right: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    322 v 319

    So if the tories lose the by election it will be 322 v 320

    This really is starting to enter endgame territory for this parliament. Surely?

    Mind you, a successful VONC does depend on the independents & even Labour MPs falling into line and that's by no means a given. Where are Nick Boles and Johnny Mercer in these figures? They surely won't support a VONC?
    Not sure if that table is up to date. I think the LD seats total should be 11, one down from the GE - didn't the Lib Dem MP for Eastbourne resign the whip?
    Chucka Umunna has restored the LDs to 12!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Somehow, I don't think twitter is representative of public reaction on this.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Pulpstar said:

    Yep that lot looks about right, BRP and the outsiders Lab, Plaid, Green probably all too short.
    Brexit Party have no chance.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Remember it so well. It was live on Radio 4. At the last minute Jim appealed in his speech to successive members opposite. A lot of commentators thought he'd swung it back. But as you say, sensationally, he lost by 1 vote and the rest, as they say, is history.
    The government whips knew the numbers were within a few votes and tried all sorts of blandishments to get Frank Maguire (Independent Nationalist for Fermanagh and South Tyrone) to vote for the government. He abstained in person. Had Maguire voted for the government a tie would have had the Speaker vote to maintain the status quo.

    A counter factual looms ....
    They even organised MP's to drink in relays with Maguire (they knew no single MP could match him).
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Boris will seize the day before he's VONC and call a general election IMO.
    That's my view.

    Question I have, is that going to be prior to Oct 31st? Surely yes?

    Well, TSE wanted the excitement of Boris v Gove but the build up to a General Election would be even more so.
    I think he'll announce it on 5th September (first day back after summer recess) and hold it on 17th October.

    This will also be enough to get the EU to push back our "departure" date to 31st December I'd have thought...
    So Boris is going to run in an election where the Brexit advert will be Boris confirming we leave on October 31st Deal or No Deal with us now leaving in December.

    That just doesn't work for the Tories...
    Surely if he goes to the country on the basis that the only way to deliver Brexit is to give him a Commons majority that will work?

    Well, if they really believe the country wants Brexit.

    Which I don't.
    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....

    As I've stated for over a week if Boris is going to call an election he needs to be it during the week beginning July 22nd otherwise it's just not possible...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    I make it three? 312 CON MPs. 10 DUP = 322.
    1 vacant. 7 not attending. 1 Speaker.
    Opposed 319 [1] [2]

    [1] I always get confused with Deputy Speakers - are they allowed to vote or not?
    [2] I realise Nick Boles and Lady Herman may be counted upon to support the government, but not technically?
    Actually that looks right: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    322 v 319

    So if the tories lose the by election it will be 322 v 320

    This really is starting to enter endgame territory for this parliament. Surely?

    Mind you, a successful VONC does depend on the independents & even Labour MPs falling into line and that's by no means a given. Where are Nick Boles and Johnny Mercer in these figures? They surely won't support a VONC?
    I think Nick Boles ISN'T in the Con total, whilst Mercer is.
    I always work back from the General Election.

    318 Con win - Bercow is counted as 'Con', so then goes to Speaker = 317
    Three (Allen, Wollaston and Soubry) to CUK = 314
    Boles walks = 313
    Davies unseated = 312

    Mercer? If you don't count him, then its 311.
    If somehow Field also decides to fall on his sword, its 310.

    The 'government' can survive for a bit longer if it is really 312.
    If it really becomes 310, I think they're heading for toastville.
    But Mercer had a vote in the leadership election , so has clearly not resigned the Whip.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Artist said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Yep that lot looks about right, BRP and the outsiders Lab, Plaid, Green probably all too short.
    Brexit Party have no chance.
    The Tories should stand aside to give them a clear run against the Lib Dems.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    eek said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Boris will seize the day before he's VONC and call a general election IMO.
    That's my view.

    Question I have, is that going to be prior to Oct 31st? Surely yes?

    Well, TSE wanted the excitement of Boris v Gove but the build up to a General Election would be even more so.
    I think he'll announce it on 5th September (first day back after summer recess) and hold it on 17th October.

    This will also be enough to get the EU to push back our "departure" date to 31st December I'd have thought...
    So Boris is going to run in an election where the Brexit advert will be Boris confirming we leave on October 31st Deal or No Deal with us now leaving in December.

    That just doesn't work for the Tories...
    Surely if he goes to the country on the basis that the only way to deliver Brexit is to give him a Commons majority that will work?

    Well, if they really believe the country wants Brexit.

    Which I don't.
    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....
    Everything turns on whether one of the four parties can break out of the pack, towards the end.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    If we’re going to criminalise Tory MPs for looking mad.....

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    Maybe they'd had so much to drink they didn't notice what was going on.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Sean_F said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Boris will seize the day before he's VONC and call a general election IMO.
    That's my view.

    Question I have, is that going to be prior to Oct 31st? Surely yes?

    Well, TSE wanted the excitement of Boris v Gove but the build up to a General Election would be even more so.
    I think he'll announce it on 5th September (first day back after summer recess) and hold it on 17th October.

    This will also be enough to get the EU to push back our "departure" date to 31st December I'd have thought...
    So Boris is going to run in an election where the Brexit advert will be Boris confirming we leave on October 31st Deal or No Deal with us now leaving in December.

    That just doesn't work for the Tories...
    Surely if he goes to the country on the basis that the only way to deliver Brexit is to give him a Commons majority that will work?

    Well, if they really believe the country wants Brexit.

    Which I don't.
    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....
    Everything turns on whether one of the four parties can break out of the pack, towards the end.
    The question is how do you call an election in September for October (5-7 weeks required) and still leave the EU on October 31st. If Boris doesn't leave on October 31st he's screwed and to call an election that late requires an extension...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    https://twitter.com/Barristerblog/status/1142000684583329793
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    Maybe they'd had so much to drink they didn't notice what was going on.
    I reckon Field was the only one with ninja training
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sovzZiSVjBE&feature=youtu.be
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    I make it three? 312 CON MPs. 10 DUP = 322.
    1 vacant. 7 not attending. 1 Speaker.
    Opposed 319 [1] [2]

    [1] I always get confused with Deputy Speakers - are they allowed to vote or not?
    [2] I realise Nick Boles and Lady Herman may be counted upon to support the government, but not technically?
    Actually that looks right: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    322 v 319

    So if the tories lose the by election it will be 322 v 320

    This really is starting to enter endgame territory for this parliament. Surely?

    Mind you, a successful VONC does depend on the independents & even Labour MPs falling into line and that's by no means a given. Where are Nick Boles and Johnny Mercer in these figures? They surely won't support a VONC?
    I think Nick Boles ISN'T in the Con total, whilst Mercer is.
    I always work back from the General Election.

    318 Con win - Bercow is counted as 'Con', so then goes to Speaker = 317
    Three (Allen, Wollaston and Soubry) to CUK = 314
    Boles walks = 313
    Davies unseated = 312

    Mercer? If you don't count him, then its 311.
    If somehow Field also decides to fall on his sword, its 310.

    The 'government' can survive for a bit longer if it is really 312.
    If it really becomes 310, I think they're heading for toastville.
    IMHO, the government will survive a Vote of Confidence if the Conservatives have 307 or more MPs.

    307 plus DUP plus Woodcock, Lewis, Hermon, minus one Deputy Speaker is 319

    That leaves 321 who could vote against, but I expect Austin and some of CHUK would abstain.

    I don't think any of the ex-Labour Independents would support a Boris Govt in a VNOC - none voted for May in January. Doubtful too that Lady Hermon will remain on board .
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Poor result I was 1% out yesterday when I predicted 18% yesterday.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    If they do give the Lib Dems a clear run, they shouldn't expect any favours in return.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    eek said:

    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....

    As I've stated for over a week if Boris is going to call an election he needs to be it during the week beginning July 22nd otherwise it's just not possible...

    Any election before the 31st October would have a very odd dynamic. A lot of Conservative MPs seem to making the assumption that either the Brexit Party would either voluntarily stand aside, or that, because Boris is promising all sorts of unicorns, TBP voters would flock back in droves to the Tories. Both assumptions look very wrong to me.
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    Why is everyone referring to her as 'the lady involved'?

    She may be a woman, but she may not be a lady!

    Of course Field was hardly gentlemanly either...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    tlg86 said:

    If they do give the Lib Dems a clear run, they shouldn't expect any favours in return.
    There have been local deals.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    I make it three? 312 CON MPs. 10 DUP = 322.
    1 vacant. 7 not attending. 1 Speaker.
    Opposed 319 [1] [2]

    [1] I always get confused with Deputy Speakers - are they allowed to vote or not?
    [2] I realise Nick Boles and Lady Herman may be counted upon to support the government, but not technically?
    Actually that looks right: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    322 v 319

    So if the tories lose the by election it will be 322 v 320

    This really is starting to enter endgame territory for this parliament. Surely?

    Mind you, a successful VONC does depend on the independents & even Labour MPs falling into line and that's by no means a given. Where are Nick Boles and Johnny Mercer in these figures? They surely won't support a VONC?
    I think Nick Boles ISN'T in the Con total, whilst Mercer is.
    I always work back from the General Election.

    318 Con win - Bercow is counted as 'Con', so then goes to Speaker = 317
    Three (Allen, Wollaston and Soubry) to CUK = 314
    Boles walks = 313
    Davies unseated = 312

    Mercer? If you don't count him, then its 311.
    If somehow Field also decides to fall on his sword, its 310.

    The 'government' can survive for a bit longer if it is really 312.
    If it really becomes 310, I think they're heading for toastville.
    IMHO, the government will survive a Vote of Confidence if the Conservatives have 307 or more MPs.

    307 plus DUP plus Woodcock, Lewis, Hermon, minus one Deputy Speaker is 319

    That leaves 321 who could vote against, but I expect Austin and some of CHUK would abstain.

    I don't think any of the ex-Labour Independents would support a Boris Govt in a VNOC - none voted for May in January. Doubtful too that Lady Hermon will remain on board .
    But, a lot of them may abstain. They really don't like Corbyn, and probably quite a few of them do like being MP's. If you don't want Boris as PM, then it's PM Corbyn or an election.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    If a General Election is called then the by-election is cancelled even if the writ has been moved already right?

    Depends on whether Dissolution has taken place. The Liverpool Edge Hill by election still took place at the end of March 1979 - a few days after the fall of the Callaghan Government.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Why is everyone referring to her as 'the lady involved'?

    She may be a woman, but she may not be a lady!

    Of course Field was hardly gentlemanly either...

    We should not be assuming her gender.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Looks like it's already come in to 4/1 sadly.

    Oh.

    4/1 is a different matter. That is not tickling my cockles to anything like the same extent.

    Let's see what the Exchange does.
  • PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    Nigelb said:

    Someone should ask Johnson if this is a waste of police resources:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-48705621

    Field spaffed her up against the column?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    1st unlike the Tories in the Brecon & Radnor by election :)

    So that's another Cons out.

    I make the current Cons-DUP working majority 4. Can anyone disabuse me of that?

    Will probably fall to 3 with the by-election. It'll only take two tories to vote against the Gov't ...

    Is there any reason why the Opposition shouldn't table a vote of No Confidence now to test the arithmetic?

    I make it three? 312 CON MPs. 10 DUP = 322.
    1 vacant. 7 not attending. 1 Speaker.
    Opposed 319 [1] [2]

    [1] I always get confused with Deputy Speakers - are they allowed to vote or not?
    [2] I realise Nick Boles and Lady Herman may be counted upon to support the government, but not technically?
    Actually that looks right: https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    322 v 319

    So if the tories lose the by election it will be 322 v 320

    This really is starting to enter endgame territory for this parliament. Surely?

    Mind you, a successful VONC does depend on the independents & even Labour MPs falling into line and that's by no means a given. Where are Nick Boles and Johnny Mercer in these figures? They surely won't support a VONC?
    I think Nick Boles ISN'T in the Con total, whilst Mercer is.
    I always work back from the General Election.

    318 Con win - Bercow is counted as 'Con', so then goes to Speaker = 317
    Three (Allen, Wollaston and Soubry) to CUK = 314
    Boles walks = 313
    Davies unseated = 312

    Mercer? If you don't count him, then its 311.
    If somehow Field also decides to fall on his sword, its 310.

    The 'government' can survive for a bit longer if it is really 312.
    If it really becomes 310, I think they're heading for toastville.
    IMHO, the government will survive a Vote of Confidence if the Conservatives have 307 or more MPs.

    307 plus DUP plus Woodcock, Lewis, Hermon, minus one Deputy Speaker is 319

    That leaves 321 who could vote against, but I expect Austin and some of CHUK would abstain.

    I don't think any of the ex-Labour Independents would support a Boris Govt in a VNOC - none voted for May in January. Doubtful too that Lady Hermon will remain on board .
    But, a lot of them may abstain. They really don't like Corbyn, and probably quite a few of them do like being MP's. If you don't want Boris as PM, then it's PM Corbyn or an election.
    People such as Woodcock and Lewis will have no more time for Boris than for Corbyn , and must surely know that their careers are effectively over.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Sean_F said:

    Why is everyone referring to her as 'the lady involved'?

    She may be a woman, but she may not be a lady!

    Of course Field was hardly gentlemanly either...

    We should not be assuming her gender.
    More correctly, we shouldn't be letting the gender of either of the participants affect our judgment of whether or not the behaviour was appropriate.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Brecon and Radnor could be a chance for Chuka now he's joined Plaid.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    tlg86 said:

    If they do give the Lib Dems a clear run, they shouldn't expect any favours in return.
    There have been local deals.
    At the last GE there was no LD in Skip & Rip in return for the Greens giving them a clear run in next-door Harrogate.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    eek said:

    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....

    As I've stated for over a week if Boris is going to call an election he needs to be it during the week beginning July 22nd otherwise it's just not possible...

    Any election before the 31st October would have a very odd dynamic. A lot of Conservative MPs seem to making the assumption that either the Brexit Party would either voluntarily stand aside, or that, because Boris is promising all sorts of unicorns, TBP voters would flock back in droves to the Tories. Both assumptions look very wrong to me.
    Yes, and if even if the Tories and TBP did a deal then there would be many who would be put off by the obvious attempt at a stich-up.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    Why is everyone referring to her as 'the lady involved'?

    She may be a woman, but she may not be a lady!

    Of course Field was hardly gentlemanly either...

    We should not be assuming her gender.
    Good point Sean.

    The protester might have self declared as transgender on the steps of the Mansion House, then a woman inside the entrance and as a man as she closed in on Hammond.

    We just need a judge led inquiry to establish all the facts.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....

    As I've stated for over a week if Boris is going to call an election he needs to be it during the week beginning July 22nd otherwise it's just not possible...

    Any election before the 31st October would have a very odd dynamic. A lot of Conservative MPs seem to making the assumption that either the Brexit Party would either voluntarily stand aside, or that, because Boris is promising all sorts of unicorns, TBP voters would flock back in droves to the Tories. Both assumptions look very wrong to me.
    You have to wonder whether MPs would even vote for an election under these circumstances. I mean, Lab and Con would whip for one, but would their MPs follow? All these people must have thought they had safe seats for life. Do they really want to roll the dice on trying to hold them in this weird situation?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    kinabalu said:

    8/1 the Cons is a great price. I'm having that.

    Looks like it's already come in to 4/1 sadly.
    The Tories will beat the Brexit Party here.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Brom said:

    Seems even among the lefties is my office Mark Field is getting huge support. I think the main consideration is the 'victim' is a professional protester not a member of the public.

    Reckon the hand wringers and Theresa May have misjudged the public mood on this one (again).

    Not so sure about that. Neckgate has managed to unite Owen Jones and Piers Morgan in condemnation - this does not happen too often.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2019
    It should be noted that this is an extremely difficult seat to fight because of the geographical factors. It covers a huge area and no town is bigger the 10k population. Mobile phone coverage I am told can be pretty terrible in places some of which have unpronounceable names.

    It was one of the last areas in Wales to allow Sunday pub opening and I wonder how Boris will go down.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    I see that Hunt has gone full hi-viz already in his campaign.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,710
    Off-topic:

    I just went into St Neots to do a few little errands, and did a short stroll. I overheard two noteworthy snippets of conversation:

    *) A young boy being dragged along the pavement by his mother: "I don't want to go and see Baby Jesus!"

    *) An obese middle-aged man waddling along a riverside path, to another man: "If your partner hits you, you get our gun and shoot her."

    The first perplexed me. The second is much darker - and I can only hope I misheard!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    She has suggested that he goes on an anger management course.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    You have to wonder whether MPs would even vote for an election under these circumstances. I mean, Lab and Con would whip for one, but would their MPs follow? All these people must have thought they had safe seats for life. Do they really want to roll the dice on trying to hold them in this weird situation?

    Just to add, a new election needs 2/3 of the total membership, including vacant seats and absent MPs. So they don't have to vote against to stop the job-threatening election from happening, they just need to find some other place they urgently need to be.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    kinabalu said:

    Brom said:

    Seems even among the lefties is my office Mark Field is getting huge support. I think the main consideration is the 'victim' is a professional protester not a member of the public.

    Reckon the hand wringers and Theresa May have misjudged the public mood on this one (again).

    Not so sure about that. Neckgate has managed to unite Owen Jones and Piers Morgan in condemnation - this does not happen too often.
    Au contraire .... If Owen Jones and Piers Morgan agree then it's a sure fire winner to be on the other side of the dispute.

    Somewhat like a Rogerdamus but with knobs on .... and what a pair of knobs those two make !!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:
    Bit of a difference from a right-winger and a facist.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Remember it so well. It was live on Radio 4. At the last minute Jim appealed in his speech to successive members opposite. A lot of commentators thought he'd swung it back. But as you say, sensationally, he lost by 1 vote and the rest, as they say, is history.
    I remember it so well as a Labour PPC at the time. I have never quite worked out why Callaghan - in the days immediately prior to that VNOC - did not simply troop along to the Palace when defeat in VNOC appeared likely and simply obtain a public announcement of a General Election to be held on June 7th. That would likely have defused the VNOC because Polling Day had already been announced, given Labour a further five weeks to put the Winter of Discontent behind them - and also enabled the Government to fight the election on the same day as first direct EU elections. Labour was the more eurosceptic party at the time and would probably have benefitted from that.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    https://twitter.com/Barristerblog/status/1142000684583329793
    If she had a knife then he just got himself stabbed because he didn't control the individual. He chose a level of force that would only worked if the protestor was non-violent.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    The HoC numbers looks more and more like the fag end of the last months of the Callaghan government. Lost by-election, and the government majority melting away as the Lib-Lab pact confidence and supply and unofficial Unionist and SNP support ceased. The opposition tabled a VONC and won by 311-310

    Remember it so well. It was live on Radio 4. At the last minute Jim appealed in his speech to successive members opposite. A lot of commentators thought he'd swung it back. But as you say, sensationally, he lost by 1 vote and the rest, as they say, is history.
    The government whips knew the numbers were within a few votes and tried all sorts of blandishments to get Frank Maguire (Independent Nationalist for Fermanagh and South Tyrone) to vote for the government. He abstained in person. Had Maguire voted for the government a tie would have had the Speaker vote to maintain the status quo.

    A counter factual looms ....
    More tragically, if Airey Neave's murder had occurred 48 hours earlier it could have proved decisive.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    OT 1962 Motor Show -- forecast to be the last with Britain outside the Common Market
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sItz5ZO2b9Y
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,045
    Result from Forest of Dean - I Ind and 2 LDs elected. A new ward but that could be classed as an Ind hold and 2 LD gains
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Field’s prompt statement has probably averted any chance of a assault charge:

    “In the confusion many guests understandably felt threatened and when one protester rushed past me towards the top table I instinctively reacted.
    "There was no security present and I was for a split second genuinely worried she might have been armed.
    "As a result I grasped the intruder firmly in order to remove her from the room as swiftly as possible."
    He added: "I deeply regret this episode and unreservedly apologise to the lady concerned for grabbing her but in the current climate I felt the need to act decisively to close down the threat to the safety of those present."

    He has at the very least established reasonable doubt.

    Was it The Fast Show that had a sketch of a Tory MP speaking to the press with his wife at his side to explain away some misdeed or other with a cock-and-bull story, and then saying that he hopes it is the end of the matter?
    Little Britain, IIRC, where he was explaining away his encounter with a rent boy.
    'When a young lad rushed past me in pvc trousers and ripped t-shirt I instinctively reacted.'
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    eek said:

    Given the Tories need those Brexit votes - Boris isn't going to win those votes if Nigel spends the entire campaign shouting October 31st and liar....

    As I've stated for over a week if Boris is going to call an election he needs to be it during the week beginning July 22nd otherwise it's just not possible...

    Any election before the 31st October would have a very odd dynamic. A lot of Conservative MPs seem to making the assumption that either the Brexit Party would either voluntarily stand aside, or that, because Boris is promising all sorts of unicorns, TBP voters would flock back in droves to the Tories. Both assumptions look very wrong to me.
    It would be a naive assumption anyway in that Brexit Party voters would not switch en bloc to the Tories - regardless of what Farage might say. The Tories overinvested their hopes in UKIP withdrawals in 2017!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
    Sorry, my sarcasm-o-meter is clearly on the blink!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    So this reflects the Boris bounce as he was locked in winner as the field work took place
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    That is a classic of its genre. One of the all time great spins.

    Brexit Party, zero MPs, six months old, leading in the polls, & the hot take is the LDs are only just behind them
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    She has suggested that he goes on an anger management course.
    One of the few sensible things said on the matter.

    But surely she was going to press charges, call for him to be sacked and stand down as an MP.

    By the end of today?

    I read it here, so it must be true....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Alistair said:

    isam said:
    Bit of a difference from a right-winger and a facist.
    Youre swimming against the tide there
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    The case wasn't made to the electorate, but it doesn't make FPTPright. A vote in my area for anyone else other than a Conservative is pretty much a wasted vote under FPTP. The only citizens that have any real voting power are those who live in marginal constituencies. There needs to be at least an element of proportionality about it to redress the "no point in voting here" syndrome. This could be done by having a proportion of seats that relate to proportion of votes cast. It would mean we end up with tossers like Farage in parliament, but I believe that is a price worth paying.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Has he took her advice about going on a gammon course?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
    Well quite - we have no idea what kind of Leave people wanted.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited June 2019
    Sean_F said:

    Why is everyone referring to her as 'the lady involved'?

    She may be a woman, but she may not be a lady!

    Of course Field was hardly gentlemanly either...

    We should not be assuming her gender.
    Good god man, much more importantly we should not be assuming her class, or ascribing to her a status to which she is not entitled.

    She actually sounded pretty sensible and down to earth on R4, much more so than that whiny old fart Bob Stewart who preceded (or followed) her.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    nichomar said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    So this reflects the Boris bounce as he was locked in winner as the field work took place
    I'm sure HYUFD will be along with a poll shortly that shows all the Brexit voters switching en masse to the Conservatives
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
    Well quite - we have no idea what kind of Leave people wanted.
    Well 1 of those 52% wanted a soft deal - I just want to be as far away from the Euro as possible for when it all blows up... I definitely don't want a No Deal FTA created by people who don't understand the first thing about WTO tariffs...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2019
    It would be rather sweet if they went on an anger management course together. He could learn techniques for controlling himself better in situations which look threatening, and she could learn to reflect on the idiocy of getting angry against politicians who are working to find solutions to the issue she's rightly identified as crucially important.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    The case wasn't made to the electorate, but it doesn't make FPTPright. A vote in my area for anyone else other than a Conservative is pretty much a wasted vote under FPTP. The only citizens that have any real voting power are those who live in marginal constituencies. There needs to be at least an element of proportionality about it to redress the "no point in voting here" syndrome. This could be done by having a proportion of seats that relate to proportion of votes cast. It would mean we end up with tossers like Farage in parliament, but I believe that is a price worth paying.
    Equally it would mean other MPs would learn how to deal with tossers like Farage so might handle their more insane but vocal constituents a bit better...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
    Well quite - we have no idea what kind of Leave people wanted.
    Well 1 of those 52% wanted a soft deal - I just want to be as far away from the Euro as possible for when it all blows up... I definitely don't want a No Deal FTA created by people who don't understand the first thing about WTO tariffs...
    4 members of the 52% in chez BJO.

    None of us want WTO
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    A vote in my area for anyone else other than a Conservative is pretty much a wasted vote under FPTP.
    I doubt that will be true in the next election unless you are really unlucky....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    On today's Yougov poll the LDs would gain Brecon and Radnor so they should be favourites.

    However I would not rule the Tories out if Boris leader by then and winning back Brexit Party voters to the Tories and if the Tories pick a good candidate e.g. a local farmer
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2019
    If the Tories have already decided on an Autumn election, there has to be the possibility that no writ will be moved. Any attempt by the LibDems to do so could be voted down.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    nichomar said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    So this reflects the Boris bounce as he was locked in winner as the field work took place
    I'm sure HYUFD will be along with a poll shortly that shows all the Brexit voters switching en masse to the Conservatives
    Theresa May is still leader and Hunt could still win but of course even a 3% Brexit Party lead over the Tories and the Tories tied with Labour is better than the Tories were doing a month ago
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited June 2019
    JackW said:

    Au contraire .... If Owen Jones and Piers Morgan agree then it's a sure fire winner to be on the other side of the dispute.

    Must admit, my heart sank when I checked Morgan's twitter and found him on the same side as me on a 'culture war' issue. Cannot remember the last time that happened. Perhaps because there isn't a last time.

    Owen, OTOH, can be OTT but I like most of his stuff. Great pundit and journalist. Will be a National Treasure in 30 years. (Unless he's very careful).

    Here's his take on Neckgate -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/21/mark-field-conservative-grabs-climate-protester-neck-far-right-cheer
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    So the protestor (from Wigan) lives off-grid in rural Waves with rabbits, kitting articles from rabbit wool with her husband. How lucky Wales is that England is willing to export such people to help the Welsh economy.

    And here is a discharged vet from Essex assisting the Welsh economy with off-grid chickens in a rural slum

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48621886

    Here are some people from Islington (Alpay Torgut) helping the Welsh economy

    https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/17556445.cardigans-naturewise-community-forest-garden-to-take-root/

    Ever wondered why so many English people are living off-grid in rural Wales, knitting rabbit wool or hatching chickens ?

    Why are these developments not occurring in ... err ... England?

    Some fuckwit called Jane Davidson, a former Labour Minister in the Welsh Assembly government for Sustainable Development, introduced legislation that implemented the document "One World, One Planet: Sustainable Development"

    The One Planet legislation was supplemented with Technical Advice Note (TAN) 6 and the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.

    Amongst other things, One Word Developments do not go through the normal planning procedure, even in National Parks.

    So, if you want to move to Pembrokeshire and live off-grid in a rural slum, harvesting adder eggs or making clothing from spider web silk, then One World Developments are ideal.

    And you can patronise the Welsh at the same time.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Have you seen his statement?

    May has 'suspended' him - not sacked him - so the confident predictions of 'sacked and resigned as an MP by the end of the day' may have been a tad premature.

    Lets also wait to see what emerges about the 'innocent member of the public'....

    And if you'd ever read anything I'd written on Boris your definition of sycophant is shall we say, curious.
    It was the mad look on his face as he pushed her her out. Why did none of the other 350 guests take action?
    https://twitter.com/Barristerblog/status/1142000684583329793
    Yes, the remainder of the diners don't look in fear of their safety. Mildly peeved perhaps...

    August 1st for the election so as to not clash with the Royal Welsh Show conclusion on 25th July?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    kinabalu said:

    Brom said:

    Seems even among the lefties is my office Mark Field is getting huge support. I think the main consideration is the 'victim' is a professional protester not a member of the public.

    Reckon the hand wringers and Theresa May have misjudged the public mood on this one (again).

    Not so sure about that. Neckgate has managed to unite Owen Jones and Piers Morgan in condemnation - this does not happen too often.
    Having watched it he looks a bit of a plonker, angrily manhandling a slightly built woman in a dress, but she shouldn't have been a able to get there in the first place, so she has no moral right to complaint IMO
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Having watched it he looks a bit of a plonker, angrily manhandling a slightly built woman in a dress, but she shouldn't have been a able to get there in the first place, so she has no moral right to complaint IMO

    And indeed she is not pressing charges.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    It would be rather sweet if they went on an anger management course together. He could learn techniques for controlling himself better in situations which look threatening, and she could learn to reflect on the idiocy of getting angry against politicians who are working to find solutions to the issue she's rightly identified as crucially important.

    Peaceful protest is not 'getting angry', it is shaping the discourse.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Could FPTP survive Labour or the Conservatives forming a governemnt on such a result?
    Well good point... I guess not, but how that change comes is a very open question.
    Why should FPTP change - we had a referendum about changing it and that was overwhelmingly rejected.
    No, we had a referendum on changing from FPTP to AV, that was rejected, because AV is sh*t.
    I'm merely following the logic of those saying 52% agreed to leave the EU no a No Deal basis...
    Well quite - we have no idea what kind of Leave people wanted.
    Well 1 of those 52% wanted a soft deal - I just want to be as far away from the Euro as possible for when it all blows up... I definitely don't want a No Deal FTA created by people who don't understand the first thing about WTO tariffs...
    So as someone at the more sensible end of the 52%, what is your feeling about it all now? Was it worth it?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    JackW said:

    Au contraire .... If Owen Jones and Piers Morgan agree then it's a sure fire winner to be on the other side of the dispute.

    Must admit, my heart sank when I checked Morgan's twitter and found him on the same side as me on a 'culture war' issue. Cannot remember the last time that happened. Perhaps because there isn't a last time.

    Owen, OTOH, can be OTT but I like most of his stuff. Great pundit and journalist. Will be a National Treasure in 30 years. (Unless he's very careful).

    Here's his take on Neckgate -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/21/mark-field-conservative-grabs-climate-protester-neck-far-right-cheer
    yebbut they haven't opened the comments on the piece as he would get slaughtered.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    It would be rather sweet if they went on an anger management course together. He could learn techniques for controlling himself better in situations which look threatening, and she could learn to reflect on the idiocy of getting angry against politicians who are working to find solutions to the issue she's rightly identified as crucially important.

    Peaceful protest is not 'getting angry', it is shaping the discourse.

    "I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    1% would vote for Labour if Hunt rather than Boris was PM?????
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    It would be rather sweet if they went on an anger management course together. He could learn techniques for controlling himself better in situations which look threatening, and she could learn to reflect on the idiocy of getting angry against politicians who are working to find solutions to the issue she's rightly identified as crucially important.

    She seems fairly meek, didn't even fight back or try to escape. Anger management is really about stopping people acting out their anger as aggression.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Cicero said:

    I see another YouGov has the Lib Dems above Labour and the Tories and only a couple of points behind TBP...

    TBP. 23
    LD 21
    Lab 20
    Con 20
    Grn 9

    Fieldwork 18-19 June.

    This is going to be one of the most unpredictable GEs in UK history.

    Electoral Calculus makes the Brexit Party largest party in another hung parliament on 265 MPs on that Yougov with Labour second on 178 and LDs third on 80, the Tories on 60 and SNP on 42

    The Tories would fall to 4th but still be Kingmakers between a Farage or Corbyn premiership

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=20&LAB=20&LIB=21&Brexit=23&Green=9&UKIP=2&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Interesting to have seen the reaction of Chinese security if she tried to pull a similar stunt there. At least though it would have been directed at the right people.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    These are fantasy figures - no way the Greens will poll 9% in a GE . They would do well to exceed 2%.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Brom said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Last night, I witnessed the unedifying spectacle of the PB Tory arch-sycophants Mortimer and Carlotta defending the response of Mark Field MP.

    I hope they have now come to whatever sense they have left.

    Seems even among the lefties is my office Mark Field is getting huge support. I think the main consideration is the 'victim' is a professional protester not a member of the public.

    Reckon the hand wringers and Theresa May have misjudged the public mood on this one (again).
    The media and Westminster bubble react to Twatter not public opinion.

    Their mutual reactions form a self-perpetuating bedwetting loop as they try and raise and kill stories off the back of it.

    Normal people look on in bafflement and amusement.
This discussion has been closed.