> @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > @AndyJS said: > > Boris obviously has a plan to roll out these endorsements at regular intervals. > > I don't know about that, they appear to be today rather than spread over too long
Yes, that was the rumour, which turns out to be right this time - big splash was held for today.
Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
If Change UK couldn't lure more MPs away a month or two ago it's hard to see them leaving now. Maybe some will be so disgusted they will do what Nick Boles did, but if Boris is leader will the much more numerous Brexiteers defect to Farage when Boris has made the Guarenteed Halloween Brexit promise?
Ken Clarke joining the Lib Dems, that would be something...
> @malcolmg said: > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
It would not take many to do it, and some will know they are going out anyway under a Boris premiership, while the DUP don't seem to care one way or the other.
In terms of the leadership contest and the potential difficulties sticking to the 31 October date, it's why several candidates unwisely tried to be honest and gave themselves some wiggle room, no matter how much they want out of the EU there are practicalities to consider. I expected more to be like Boris and just say "f*ck it, let's do this". They fell into his trap and he has pounced.
> Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
Some of them might conclude the only chance to save their seat is to contest it as BXP at the next election.
He'll be working out whether to give the nod to Raab, Boris or run himself I think - could be a potential kingmaker if lots of other hardcore ERG follow his recommendation
Yes although others have jumped feet first for Johnson (eg. Mogg, Mad Nad, etc).
Final MV Noe + Brexit Group I make the 'hardcore' ERG group + Drax (Repented from MV2)
Call for the (wo)men in white coats to take that list of fruit loops away. Our future hinges on these obsessionals and fantasists. That’s not a positive thought.
> @eek said: > > @malcolmg said: > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
With Boris thrilling the no dealers with his committment, I assume that means Baker will not bothering entering the contest - he can trust Boris to his word.
> > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
> It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
> It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> @malcolmg said: > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
With Boris thrilling the no dealers with his committment, I assume that means Baker will not bothering entering the contest - he can trust Boris to his word.
> @Pulpstar said: > > @eek said: > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned.
> @kle4 said: > > @malcolmg said: > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election. > > I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. Unfortunately as Peterborough has just shown, unless it is clear cut as far as being barred due to sentence is concerned, it seems too many MPs will support stringing it out for as long as possible.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @kle4 said: > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election. > > > > I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned. > > I agree. Unfortunately as Peterborough has just shown, unless it is clear cut as far as being barred due to sentence is concerned, it seems too many MPs will support stringing it out for as long as possible.
I think it's in the recall act that appeals have to be exhausted before a petition can begin, if the sentence is of one year or less. Happy to be corrected.
Surely the Tory Remainers would not let pass the opportunity to sabotage Boris right from the start.
I think we are going to find out how much a lot of MPs believe what they say, because if they do there should be enough to tank their careers and bring down the government.
I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> >
> >
> >
> > They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
> >
> > I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned.
>
> I agree. Unfortunately as Peterborough has just shown, unless it is clear cut as far as being barred due to sentence is concerned, it seems too many MPs will support stringing it out for as long as possible.
I think it's in the recall act that appeals have to be exhausted before a petition can begin, if the sentence is of one year or less. Happy to be corrected.
Yes it is, but I think he was suggesting that they should resign upon conviction (Onasanya for instance, if reports are accurate, barely even had any grounds or prepared for her attempt at an appeal, it was a stringing ti along exercise).
> @Quincel said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > I hope these announcements keep coming seeing as I've laid the favorite mother in the contest for as much as I dare. > > Likewise. Her odds are absolutely crazy. > > I've also laid Rory, much as I love him there's just little in his favour in either MPs or members ballot.
I am green on almost everyone, having put more money than I would normally wager onto lay bets on JRM when he was favourite, or close to it, which seemed as close to a free money offer as I would ever get in my lifetime. But I am also red on Boris, having laid him at longer odds than he has now. I refuse to back Boris at low odds but am doing my best to reduce my exposure by laying others such as Leadsom and Rory who both offer good laying odds right now. But I still need to find a way of preventing Boris winning this.
Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so...."
> @kinabalu said: > > @williamglenn said: > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
> @kinabalu said: > > @williamglenn said: > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> @Ishmael_Z said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
He's a hate-monger.
We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
Dominic Raab hasn't received any endorsements for a long time and he's still one short of the number needed to guarantee advancement to the second round.
Raab's problem is that he's in the same 'lane' as Boris I think now.
Isn’t he playing for the Thatcherite true believer lane ?
> @kinabalu said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen? > > He's a hate-monger. > > We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
Their descendants elected him in a, you know, democracy, both to govern them and to represent them on solemn occasions like this. Well done for knowing better than them! You must be very proud.
> > I hope these announcements keep coming seeing as I've laid the favorite mother in the contest for as much as I dare.
>
> Likewise. Her odds are absolutely crazy.
>
> I've also laid Rory, much as I love him there's just little in his favour in either MPs or members ballot.
I am green on almost everyone, having put more money than I would normally wager onto lay bets on JRM when he was favourite, or close to it, which seemed as close to a free money offer as I would ever get in my lifetime. But I am also red on Boris, having laid him at longer odds than he has now. I refuse to back Boris at low odds but am doing my best to reduce my exposure by laying others such as Leadsom and Rory who both offer good laying odds right now. But I still need to find a way of preventing Boris winning this.
We all know what Boris likes. Would you go that far?
> @Floater said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
> > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
>
> And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> @Ishmael_Z said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen? > > > > He's a hate-monger. > > > > We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day. > > Their descendants elected him in a, you know, democracy, both to govern them and to represent them on solemn occasions like this. Well done for knowing better than them! You must be very proud.
> > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> >
> > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
>
> If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
Stewart is correct when he says the Irish border is an identity issue and so this guy is wrong in his criticism. The border identity works both ways. The border defines Northern Ireland and makes it British, if you are of that persuasion. If you have an Irish identity, it's a hated scar across your country. The border in both cases is existential. It's not a minor consequence of Troubles, now thankfully over.
Stewart isn't quite correct when he says the Good Friday Agreement removed the border. Actually it made the border ambiguous. It's there if you want it to be and invisible if you don't. Brexit removes the ambiguity. It either makes Northern Ireland emphatically British or Irish.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Floater said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates. > > Beams and motes, Jeremy.
The people Corbyn wants support from already believe that the formal investigation is nonsense. He won't gain many new friends from this action, but making new friends has never really been his aim - he just cares about his loyalists.
Rory Stewart doing a John Major in Hyde Park. I doubt he’ll get anywhere but he is one of the few who is bothering to engage with the voters for real - not in expensively produced videos. He deserves considerable credit for that.
> @kinabalu said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen? > > He's a hate-monger. > > We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
And threaten any chance that Trump will allow the UK access to their security and cooperation in the event the west hating, hamas, ira , venezeula loving marxist Corbyn came anywhere near office
> @Cyclefree said: > Rory Stewart doing a John Major in Hyde Park. I doubt he’ll get anywhere but he is one of the few who is bothering to engage with the voters for real - not in expensively produced videos. He deserves considerable credit for that.
Agreed. I hope the person who does win learns a few lessons from him, but I'm not holding my breath. Almost all of British politics right now is focused inwards on their bases, from Boris Johnson (and most Tory MPs) chasing the No Deal Brexit crowd to Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems chasing the Hard Remain vote. We've become so polarised it's the only tactic which works, but as a strategy it will make the country worse in the medium term.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Floater said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates. > > Beams and motes, Jeremy.
> @kinabalu said: > > @Floater said: > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
He was elected to office whether you like it or not
> @Nigelb said: > I look forward to Boris facing down Trump... > > https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says > "Woody Johnson, who is a close friend of the US president, said every area of the UK economy would be up for discussion when the two sides brokered a trade deal. > > Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so...."
Those concerned about foreign nations having access to the NHS need to look into the details of our EU membership. All commissioned services over a couple hundred thousand need to be openly listed through an EU wide procurement process.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Floater said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates. > > Beams and motes, Jeremy.
That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better.
I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants.
> @kinabalu said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @Floater said: > > > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates. > > > > Beams and motes, Jeremy. > > That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better. > > I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants.
Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @Floater said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > He was elected to office whether you like it or not
London's newest train station, Meridian Water, in the London Borough of Enfield, but not a million miles from Tottenham, opened today, after two one-week delays. One one side there's a large Tesco and IKEA, but on the other side is yet-to-be-built housing. Still, a more sensible location than the station it directly replaces, Angel Road, wot closed on Friday. Peak hour services only for the moment, but full service in September. Naturally, I was there this afternoon, and coupled with very recent visits to Hertford North, Bayford and Cuffley, it means I maintain my 100% record of visiting every station currently in the London Oystercard network!
I'm finding the leaver/remainer dynamic interesting wrt Huawei. The decision to keep them seems to falling along those lines with remainers supporting Huawei/China and leavers against.
I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least).
It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
> @MaxPB said: > I'm finding the leaver/remainer dynamic interesting wrt Huawei. The decision to keep them seems to falling along those lines with remainers supporting Huawei/China and leavers against. > > I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least). > > It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
I agree on the general point, but must admit I didn't realise almost anyone was backing/trusting China/Huawei on this. Too stuck in my bubble, apparently.
(That last bit isn't meant to be snide, I mean it sincerely.)
A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
Ah, I see. Of course. The MPs choose two candidates to put to the electorate, the electorate votes in their chosen leader - and the MPs refuse to go along with a decision they consider wrong.
> I'm finding the leaver/remainer dynamic interesting wrt Huawei. The decision to keep them seems to falling along those lines with remainers supporting Huawei/China and leavers against.
>
> I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least).
>
> It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
I agree on the general point, but must admit I didn't realise almost anyone was backing/trusting China/Huawei on this. Too stuck in my bubble, apparently.
(That last bit isn't meant to be snide, I mean it sincerely.)
Just looking through the comments on The Times article and it definitely seems like it's falling along leave/remain lines. With remainers all banging on about leavers giving in to US pressure and leavers all saying Trump has it right about them.
> @Barnesian said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @Floater said: > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > He was elected to office whether you like it or not
Is that what you'll have on your placard at the trump protest, under the picture of Maduro?
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @kinabalu said: > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Floater said: > > > > > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > > > > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates. > > > > > > Beams and motes, Jeremy. > > > > That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better. > > > > I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants. > > Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others. > > Both totally unsuitable for office
> @justin124 said: > > @Barnesian said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
> @justin124 said: > > @Barnesian said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected. **********************************************************************
Not if it was the majority of the Labour party! If Corbyn whipped his MPs for a VONC for a GE which implied a crash out because there wouldn't be time to revoke or ask for an extension, he would have a major revolt. Normal rules wouldn't apply.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Barnesian said: > > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected. > > And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election.
> @Stereotomy said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > @Floater said: > > > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > The dead pussy strategy? > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216 > > > > > > > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking. > > > > > > > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription. > > > > > > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with. > > > > > > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms. > > > > > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person. > > > > > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet. > > > > He was elected to office whether you like it or not > > Is that what you'll have on your placard at the trump protest, under the picture of Maduro?
> I'm finding the leaver/remainer dynamic interesting wrt Huawei. The decision to keep them seems to falling along those lines with remainers supporting Huawei/China and leavers against.
>
> I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least).
>
> It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
I agree on the general point, but must admit I didn't realise almost anyone was backing/trusting China/Huawei on this. Too stuck in my bubble, apparently.
(That last bit isn't meant to be snide, I mean it sincerely.)
Just looking through the comments on The Times article and it definitely seems like it's falling along leave/remain lines. With remainers all banging on about leavers giving in to US pressure and leavers all saying Trump has it right about them.
It makes no sense to me.
Perhaps all our battles are just three to four decades out of date.
I wouldn’t touch Huawei with a barge pole. The ramifications of it constructing our national infrastructure should be obvious.
> @kinabalu said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @kinabalu said: > > > > Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others. > > > > Both totally unsuitable for office > > I could say the same about (say) Boris Johnson. > > But it ought to be possible to retain a sense of outrage about Trump without getting sidetracked into the minutae of our domestic politics. > > All that's required to do so is some semblance of a moral compass.
Corbyn is not a minutae of domestic politics. He is as obnoxious as Trump
We would all be safer if both of them would disappear from public office
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Barnesian said: > > > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > > > > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected. > > > > And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens > > I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election.
I very much doubt it. I expect they would want to be with the winners
A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
Ah, I see. Of course. The MPs choose two candidates to put to the electorate, the electorate votes in their chosen leader - and the MPs refuse to go along with a decision they consider wrong.
That sounds familiar.
Good evening, everyone.
The electorate in this case being the Tory membership heavily infiltrated by Kippers. It is not the general public.
It is a democratic outrage that this elderly right-wing group can select our PM and determine the future of the UK for generations. Luckily our democracy has the answer. MPs can tell them to take a running jump.
A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
Ah, I see. Of course. The MPs choose two candidates to put to the electorate, the electorate votes in their chosen leader - and the MPs refuse to go along with a decision they consider wrong.
That sounds familiar.
Good evening, everyone.
The electorate in this case being the Tory membership heavily infiltrated by Kippers. It is not the general public.
It is a democratic outrage that this elderly right-wing group can select our PM and determine the future of the UK for generations. Luckily our democracy has the answer. MPs can tell them to take a running jump.
In fairness, democracy at all stages has an answer. Whether or not it's one people like is another matter, fwiw right now I think the forces of remain would have an advantage in a straight referendum but the forces of leave are favoured in a FPTP election.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @Barnesian said: > > > > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > > > > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > > > > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > > > > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > > > > > > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected. > > > > > > And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens > > > > I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election. > > I very much doubt it. I expect they would want to be with the winners
They would not be so naive as to place much trust in EU election results - particularly when polls already have the LibDems down at 16%.
> @Pulpstar said: > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > > Ah, I see. Of course. The MPs choose two candidates to put to the electorate, the electorate votes in their chosen leader - and the MPs refuse to go along with a decision they consider wrong. > > That sounds familiar. > > Good evening, everyone. > > The electorate in this case being the Tory membership heavily infiltrated by Kippers. It is not the general public. > > It is a democratic outrage that this elderly right-wing group can select our PM and determine the future of the UK for generations. Luckily our democracy has the answer. MPs can tell them to take a running jump. > > In fairness, democracy at all stages has an answer. Whether or not it's one people like is another matter, fwiw right now I think the forces of remain would have an advantage in a straight referendum but the forces of leave are favoured in a FPTP election.
> @Barnesian said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Barnesian said: > > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > > > > > > @eek said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass. > > > > > > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint > > > > > > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible. > > > > > > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected) > > > > > > > > > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC. > > > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes. > > > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs. > > > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role. > > > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected. > ********************************************************************** > > Not if it was the majority of the Labour party! If Corbyn whipped his MPs for a VONC for a GE which implied a crash out because there wouldn't be time to revoke or ask for an extension, he would have a major revolt. Normal rules wouldn't apply.
Remainer Con MPs need to accept that if we do not leave the EU then the Tory party is finished. A deal would need to be done in that they are given plumb seats to contest at the next general election. This will give almost all enough reason to not vote down next PM. Once brexit is over, then the healing has to start - it can't and won't happen before it. As much as the Tory party is finished without the ERG, if it loses the one nation half then it won't be much better off.
Comments
> The dead pussy strategy?
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
Tell him it is also an anti-brexit demo and all of a sudden he will have important business with the allotment comittee.
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Boris obviously has a plan to roll out these endorsements at regular intervals.
>
> I don't know about that, they appear to be today rather than spread over too long
Yes, that was the rumour, which turns out to be right this time - big splash was held for today.
The cricket, that is.
> I hope these announcements keep coming seeing as I've laid the favorite mother in the contest for as much as I dare.
Likewise. Her odds are absolutely crazy.
I've also laid Rory, much as I love him there's just little in his favour in either MPs or members ballot.
Ken Clarke joining the Lib Dems, that would be something...
> Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1135582239931154432?s=21
In terms of the leadership contest and the potential difficulties sticking to the 31 October date, it's why several candidates unwisely tried to be honest and gave themselves some wiggle room, no matter how much they want out of the EU there are practicalities to consider. I expected more to be like Boris and just say "f*ck it, let's do this". They fell into his trap and he has pounced.
> > @malcolmg said:
> > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
> It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
> > @eek said:
>
> > > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> > >
>
> > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
> >
>
> > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
>
>
>
> There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
>
> And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1135584468528488459
> Could England score the first two centuries of the tournament and still lose?
Could they? yes.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
> >
>
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
>
>
> They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
>
> I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned.
I agree. Unfortunately as Peterborough has just shown, unless it is clear cut as far as being barred due to sentence is concerned, it seems too many MPs will support stringing it out for as long as possible.
> > @kle4 said:
> > > @malcolmg said:
> >
> > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> >
> >
> >
> > They are already down to 313. I cannot see the likes of Grieve, Greening and Lee staying if Boris gets it. Then there is the possibility of a Brecon & Radnor by election.
> >
> > I hope so. A conviction in office is good enough cause as far as I'm concerned.
>
> I agree. Unfortunately as Peterborough has just shown, unless it is clear cut as far as being barred due to sentence is concerned, it seems too many MPs will support stringing it out for as long as possible.
I think it's in the recall act that appeals have to be exhausted before a petition can begin, if the sentence is of one year or less. Happy to be corrected.
> The dead pussy strategy?
>
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
https://twitter.com/northernthumb/status/1135568998026874880
> Another poll from Germany confirms the rise of the Greens.
>
> https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/1135582239931154432?s=21
The upcoming generation are finding their voice. They are going to reject the established parties here and there.
Edited extra bits: and it's weird how he's happy to meet with 'our friends' in Hamas and Hezbollah but Donald Trump* is beyond the pale.
*Trump is an arse. But he hasn't thrown any political rivals from rooftops (or gay people likewise).
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > I hope these announcements keep coming seeing as I've laid the favorite mother in the contest for as much as I dare.
>
> Likewise. Her odds are absolutely crazy.
>
> I've also laid Rory, much as I love him there's just little in his favour in either MPs or members ballot.
I am green on almost everyone, having put more money than I would normally wager onto lay bets on JRM when he was favourite, or close to it, which seemed as close to a free money offer as I would ever get in my lifetime. But I am also red on Boris, having laid him at longer odds than he has now. I refuse to back Boris at low odds but am doing my best to reduce my exposure by laying others such as Leadsom and Rory who both offer good laying odds right now. But I still need to find a way of preventing Boris winning this.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says
"Woody Johnson, who is a close friend of the US president, said every area of the UK economy would be up for discussion when the two sides brokered a trade deal.
Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so...."
> Another endorsement - one that highlights the risk of an easy to edit template. https://twitter.com/IdolScribblings/status/1135577821806497792
>
> https://twitter.com/northernthumb/status/1135568998026874880
>
> You think? All grist to the mill I suspect.
Better looking than most of the ERG, anyhow.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > The dead pussy strategy?
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
>
> I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
>
> If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
> > @williamglenn said:
> > The dead pussy strategy?
> >
> > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
>
> I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
>
> If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> >
> > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> >
> > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
He's a hate-monger.
We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > >
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > >
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> >
> > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
>
> He's a hate-monger.
>
> We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
Their descendants elected him in a, you know, democracy, both to govern them and to represent them on solemn occasions like this. Well done for knowing better than them! You must be very proud.
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> >
> > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> >
> > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
>
> If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > > >
> > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > > >
> > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > >
> > > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
> >
> > He's a hate-monger.
> >
> > We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
>
> Their descendants elected him in a, you know, democracy, both to govern them and to represent them on solemn occasions like this. Well done for knowing better than them! You must be very proud.
I have standards.
Beams and motes, Jeremy.
He should concentrate on those whose surnames have three or fewer letters. Longer ones can be difficult to get right.
Stewart isn't quite correct when he says the Good Friday Agreement removed the border. Actually it made the border ambiguous. It's there if you want it to be and invisible if you don't. Brexit removes the ambiguity. It either makes Northern Ireland emphatically British or Irish.
____________________________
> @TGOHF said:
> Rory seems to be making a fool of himself in Ulster today.
>
> https://twitter.com/mechanonplacet/status/1135271221585678336
> > @Floater said:
>
> > > @kinabalu said:
>
> > > > @williamglenn said:
>
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
>
>
>
> > >
>
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
>
> > >
>
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> >
>
> > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
>
> >
>
> > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
>
>
>
> Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
>
>
>
> Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
>
> Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
>
> Beams and motes, Jeremy.
The people Corbyn wants support from already believe that the formal investigation is nonsense. He won't gain many new friends from this action, but making new friends has never really been his aim - he just cares about his loyalists.
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > >
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > >
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> >
> > Well done! How else are we to stick it to the imperialist American wankers who fought and died on the Normandy beaches, and their descendants and fellow countrymen?
>
> He's a hate-monger.
>
> We dishonour their memory by giving him the time of day.
And threaten any chance that Trump will allow the UK access to their security and cooperation in the event the west hating, hamas, ira , venezeula loving marxist Corbyn came anywhere near office
> Rory Stewart doing a John Major in Hyde Park. I doubt he’ll get anywhere but he is one of the few who is bothering to engage with the voters for real - not in expensively produced videos. He deserves considerable credit for that.
Agreed. I hope the person who does win learns a few lessons from him, but I'm not holding my breath. Almost all of British politics right now is focused inwards on their bases, from Boris Johnson (and most Tory MPs) chasing the No Deal Brexit crowd to Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems chasing the Hard Remain vote. We've become so polarised it's the only tactic which works, but as a strategy it will make the country worse in the medium term.
> May's premiership could look like a triumph when we're still in the EU come 1st November if Bojo gets in.
Well, maybe, but the foundation for all that follows from here was laid by May. Cameron only brought the architects in.
> > @Floater said:
>
> > > @kinabalu said:
>
> > > > @williamglenn said:
>
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
>
>
>
> > >
>
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
>
> > >
>
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> >
>
> > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
>
> >
>
> > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
>
>
>
> Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
>
>
>
> Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
>
> Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
>
> Beams and motes, Jeremy.
PooGate.....
> > @Floater said:
> > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > >
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > >
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> >
> > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> >
> > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
>
> Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
>
> Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
He was elected to office whether you like it or not
> I look forward to Boris facing down Trump...
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says
> "Woody Johnson, who is a close friend of the US president, said every area of the UK economy would be up for discussion when the two sides brokered a trade deal.
>
> Asked if the NHS was likely to form part of trade negotiations, Johnson told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show: “I think the entire economy, in a trade deal, all things that are traded would be on the table.” Asked if that specifically meant healthcare, he said: “I would think so...."
Those concerned about foreign nations having access to the NHS need to look into the details of our EU membership. All commissioned services over a couple hundred thousand need to be openly listed through an EU wide procurement process.
> > @Floater said:
>
> > > @kinabalu said:
>
> > > > @williamglenn said:
>
> > > > The dead pussy strategy?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
>
>
>
> > >
>
> > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
>
> > >
>
> > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
>
> >
>
> > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
>
> >
>
> > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
>
>
>
> Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
>
>
>
> Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
>
> Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
>
> Beams and motes, Jeremy.
That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better.
I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants.
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @Floater said:
> >
> > > > @kinabalu said:
> >
> > > > > @williamglenn said:
> >
> > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
> >
> > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
> >
> > Beams and motes, Jeremy.
>
> That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better.
>
> I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants.
Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others.
Both totally unsuitable for office
https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk/status/1135584688863506436?s=21
https://twitter.com/teamsaj/status/1135600849537916928?s=21
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @Floater said:
> > > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > > >
> > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > > >
> > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > >
> > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> > >
> > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> >
> > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
> >
> > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
>
> He was elected to office whether you like it or not
100% agreed. I'm a phobe not a denier.
Beat that, @SeanT
BTW Was there a Presidential Visit today or summat?
I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least).
It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
> I'm finding the leaver/remainer dynamic interesting wrt Huawei. The decision to keep them seems to falling along those lines with remainers supporting Huawei/China and leavers against.
>
> I'm actually surprised that so many remainers have blindly decided to fall in line behind a Chinese government front because they oppose Trump. It's basically the most blatant case of inviting espionage but remainers are lining up to support them, at least by Twatter and online comments (though not here, at least).
>
> It really does feel like we've got to a situation of remainers thinking "anyone who supported leave is wrong and I'll oppose them regardless of the subject" and vice versa, which is not a welcome development.
I agree on the general point, but must admit I didn't realise almost anyone was backing/trusting China/Huawei on this. Too stuck in my bubble, apparently.
(That last bit isn't meant to be snide, I mean it sincerely.)
That sounds familiar.
Good evening, everyone.
> > @Pulpstar said:
>
> > > @eek said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @malcolmg said:
>
> >
>
> > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
>
>
> Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
>
>
> > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
>
>
> > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
>
> >
>
> > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
>
>
>
> Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
>
> A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
>
> It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
>
> I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @Floater said:
> > > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > > >
> > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > > >
> > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > >
> > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> > >
> > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> >
> > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
> >
> > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
>
> He was elected to office whether you like it or not
Is that what you'll have on your placard at the trump protest, under the picture of Maduro?
> > @kinabalu said:
> > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > @Floater said:
> > >
> > > > > @kinabalu said:
> > >
> > > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > >
> > > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
> > >
> > > Attacking Trump for being a racist or sexist is not going to have the force it might once have had when you are leading a party being formally investigated for racism and when you disregard allegations of sexual harassment when they are made against one of your mates.
> > >
> > > Beams and motes, Jeremy.
> >
> > That's a fair enough observation. I welcome all opposition to something which so clearly should be opposed - but if those doing the opposing also happen to be unblemished then that is all the better.
> >
> > I'm probably going tomorrow so I will be able to report back on the quality or otherwise of the participants.
>
> Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others.
>
> Both totally unsuitable for office
As is Boris.
> > @Barnesian said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> >
> > > > @eek said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > @malcolmg said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> >
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> >
> >
> > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> >
> >
> > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> >
> >
> >
> > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> >
> > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> >
> > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> >
> > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
>
> Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
> Donald Trump and Sadiq Khan are as bad as each other IMO with their childish tweets.
They are both appalling and it does make you despair
> > @kinabalu said:
>
> Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others.
>
> Both totally unsuitable for office
I could say the same about (say) Boris Johnson.
But it ought to be possible to retain a sense of outrage about Trump without getting sidetracked into the minutae of our domestic politics.
All that's required to do so is some semblance of a moral compass.
> > @Barnesian said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> >
> > > > @eek said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > @malcolmg said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> >
> >
> > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> >
> >
> > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> >
> >
> > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> >
> >
> >
> > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> >
> > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> >
> > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> >
> > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
>
> Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
**********************************************************************
Not if it was the majority of the Labour party! If Corbyn whipped his MPs for a VONC for a GE which implied a crash out because there wouldn't be time to revoke or ask for an extension, he would have a major revolt. Normal rules wouldn't apply.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Barnesian said:
> > > > @Pulpstar said:
> > >
> > > > > @eek said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > > @malcolmg said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> > >
> > >
> > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> > >
> > >
> > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> > >
> > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> > >
> > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> > >
> > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> >
> > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
>
> And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > @Floater said:
> > > > > @kinabalu said:
> > > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > > > > The dead pussy strategy?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1135577769767817216
> > > > >
> > > > > I should jolly well hope he is attending and speaking.
> > > > >
> > > > > If a left wing opposition leader in Britain did not actively and vigorously protest the visit of the biggest piece of reactionary right wing garbage that has blown this way in many a year then I for one would be cancelling my subscription.
> > > >
> > > > Yet look at the people he is happy to talk with.
> > > >
> > > > If Trump was left wing he would welcome him with open arms.
> > >
> > > Well I wouldn't. It's not so much the policies as the person.
> > >
> > > Please do not underestimate the toxic global impact of such a bottom drawer individual holding the highest elected office on the planet.
> >
> > He was elected to office whether you like it or not
>
> Is that what you'll have on your placard at the trump protest, under the picture of Maduro?
Not me - I wont be at the protest
Perhaps all our battles are just three to four decades out of date.
I wouldn’t touch Huawei with a barge pole. The ramifications of it constructing our national infrastructure should be obvious.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @kinabalu said:
> >
> > Corbyn is as obnoxious to many as Trump is to others.
> >
> > Both totally unsuitable for office
>
> I could say the same about (say) Boris Johnson.
>
> But it ought to be possible to retain a sense of outrage about Trump without getting sidetracked into the minutae of our domestic politics.
>
> All that's required to do so is some semblance of a moral compass.
Corbyn is not a minutae of domestic politics. He is as obnoxious as Trump
We would all be safer if both of them would disappear from public office
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Barnesian said:
> > > > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > >
> > > > > > @eek said:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > @malcolmg said:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> > > >
> > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> > > >
> > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> > > >
> > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> > >
> > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
> >
> > And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
>
> I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election.
I very much doubt it. I expect they would want to be with the winners
It is a democratic outrage that this elderly right-wing group can select our PM and determine the future of the UK for generations. Luckily our democracy has the answer. MPs can tell them to take a running jump.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @Barnesian said:
> > > > > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > @eek said:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > @malcolmg said:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> > > > >
> > > > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> > > >
> > > > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
> > >
> > > And you think they would care. Wear it as a badge of honour and defect to Lib Dems or Greens
> >
> > I suspect they would have some awareness of the likelihood of being re-elected under those labels in a general election.
>
> I very much doubt it. I expect they would want to be with the winners
They would not be so naive as to place much trust in EU election results - particularly when polls already have the LibDems down at 16%.
> A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
>
> It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
>
> I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
>
>
> Ah, I see. Of course. The MPs choose two candidates to put to the electorate, the electorate votes in their chosen leader - and the MPs refuse to go along with a decision they consider wrong.
>
> That sounds familiar.
>
> Good evening, everyone.
>
> The electorate in this case being the Tory membership heavily infiltrated by Kippers. It is not the general public.
>
> It is a democratic outrage that this elderly right-wing group can select our PM and determine the future of the UK for generations. Luckily our democracy has the answer. MPs can tell them to take a running jump.
>
> In fairness, democracy at all stages has an answer. Whether or not it's one people like is another matter, fwiw right now I think the forces of remain would have an advantage in a straight referendum but the forces of leave are favoured in a FPTP election.
Good point
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Barnesian said:
> > > > @Pulpstar said:
> > >
> > > > > @eek said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > > @malcolmg said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Assuming that Boris becomes leader, if sufficient Tory MPs resign the Whip to reduce their number to 308 , there must be a good chance that a VNOC will pass.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hard to see many vacating the trough unless at gunpoint
> > >
> > >
> > > > > It would only take 5 MPs. Granted it's still unlikely but it's not impossible.
> > >
> > >
> > > > There are more than 5 arch-Remainers on the Tory benches.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > And more than 5 ultra-Brexiteers obviously too. There is also the DUP who will try and bring down the Gov't if May's deal somehow gets through (She might be politically dead but her deal could yet be resurrected)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tory MPs don't want a general election, but presumably they'd prefer one to Corbyn being offered the chance to form a minority government in the event of a VONC.
> > >
> > > A VONC would not lead to a Corbyn minority government. He doesn't have the votes.
> > >
> > > It would lead to a Remainer Tory agreeing to ask the EU for an extension to avoid crashing out. In that scenario, I think such a person would get a vote of confidence from the many Remainers and opponents of no deal. Corbyn might whip for another VONC thereby risking a crash out but I think he would be ignored by many Labour MPs.
> > >
> > > I think that person will be Gove. Next PM after Johnson who will get 24 hours in the role.
> >
> > Labour MPs who failed to obey the Whip on a VNOC would lose the Whip and be deselected.
> **********************************************************************
>
> Not if it was the majority of the Labour party! If Corbyn whipped his MPs for a VONC for a GE which implied a crash out because there wouldn't be time to revoke or ask for an extension, he would have a major revolt. Normal rules wouldn't apply.
Remainer Con MPs need to accept that if we do not leave the EU then the Tory party is finished. A deal would need to be done in that they are given plumb seats to contest at the next general election. This will give almost all enough reason to not vote down next PM. Once brexit is over, then the healing has to start - it can't and won't happen before it. As much as the Tory party is finished without the ERG, if it loses the one nation half then it won't be much better off.