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  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited November 2013


    You really should refrain from making a fool of yourself by commenting on things you have no knowledge of Richard. If you read what I said I made it clear that I didn't expect the diggers to arrive the day after. What should happen is all the work that is outlined in the draft planning application should begin so that the full applications can be submitted. None of this has happened in the two years since outline permission was given. Nothing.

    The Council would love to be able to get on with the development since they pushed for it so hard (and it cost one district councillor his seat in May). But none of the preparatory work has even started. Yet go and look at how many planning applications the developers of this particular scheme are continuing to make around the country.

    But that provides absolutely zero support for your proposition that the developers are 'sitting' on the land (which presumably accounts for 3,100 of the 400,000 figure you mentioned). Having got outline permission, they then had to get partners lined up, finance arranged and full planning permission applications prepared and granted.

    This all takes a huge amount of time. In fact a quick Google search shows up where the delay is:

    http://newarkadvertiser.co.uk/articles/news/Remaining-optimistic-on-growth

    He said: “Everything is ready to go on the district council side. Since the permission was granted we have been working with the developers to access funding.

    “We are continuing talks to assist them in getting funding for at least part of the scheme and the link road.

    “It is a difficult time for developers and we appreciate that, but we are hopeful the scheme will move forward to a start."


    Are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to apply for permission for, and develop, sites elsewhere until they've built this one?
  • tim said:

    There will be something on rail.
    As for the rest well that polling tells you just how ridiculous all of the Marxism garbage from Cameron is, Miliband is not only more centrist than the vast bulk of voters, he's more centrist than Tory voters on these issues.

    Blairism 1997-2010. RIP.

    You must be gutted.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    tim said:

    There will be something on rail.
    As for the rest well that polling tells you just how ridiculous all of the Marxism garbage from Cameron is, Miliband is not only more centrist than the vast bulk of voters, he's more centrist than Tory voters on these issues.

    Blairism 1997-2010. RIP.

    You must be gutted.
    But he can play with his HS 2 train set.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited November 2013
    tim said:

    tim said:

    @tim - will Ed be brave?

    What do you define as brave?
    Being in touch with voters and putting nationalisation of the utilities in the Labour Manifesto.

    No?

    Me neither......

    There will be something on rail.
    Not extending or re-tendering franchises as they expire?

    That'll get the troops to the barricades!

    I may have to have a lie down......

  • JohnO said:

    tim said:

    There will be something on rail.
    As for the rest well that polling tells you just how ridiculous all of the Marxism garbage from Cameron is, Miliband is not only more centrist than the vast bulk of voters, he's more centrist than Tory voters on these issues.

    Blairism 1997-2010. RIP.

    You must be gutted.
    But he can play with his HS 2 train set.
    Or not. Or maybe yes. Or possibly not. What does Ed B say? Has he sufficiently re-established his economic credibility that we can now actually spend something? No? How long will it take? That long? So its definitely probably possibly on then. I'm glad we've made that clear.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    tim said:

    tim said:

    There will be something on rail.
    As for the rest well that polling tells you just how ridiculous all of the Marxism garbage from Cameron is, Miliband is not only more centrist than the vast bulk of voters, he's more centrist than Tory voters on these issues.

    Blairism 1997-2010. RIP.

    You must be gutted.
    I'm not bothered who owns a power plant (I'd rather it was British pension funds getting the green taxes Osborne signed over to the Chinese Communists) but the polling is dire for the Tories, your leader and party are seen as the GOP and Romney are seen in the US
    You ARE being petulant to-day. Is it the weather or the scale of Ed's cowardice on HS2 finally sinking in? And it looked so promising - you said so yourself.
  • tim said:

    I'm not bothered who owns a power plant (I'd rather it was British pension funds getting the green taxes Osborne signed over to the Chinese Communists) but the polling is dire for the Tories, your leader and party are seen as the GOP and Romney are seen in the US

    We shall see. Maybe the population does want to go back to the dark ages (certainly French voters seemed to, although they very rapidly realised their mistake, albeit too late). But I'm optimistic that sanity will prevail, whilst planning my affairs to get as much protection as I can if it doesn't.

  • But that provides absolutely zero support for your proposition that the developers are 'sitting' on the land (which presumably accounts for 3,100 of the 400,000 figure you mentioned). Having got outline permission, they then had to get partners lined up, finance arranged and full planning permission applications prepared and granted.

    This all takes a huge amount of time. In fact a quick Google search shows up where the delay is:

    http://newarkadvertiser.co.uk/articles/news/Remaining-optimistic-on-growth

    He said: “Everything is ready to go on the district council side. Since the permission was granted we have been working with the developers to access funding.

    “We are continuing talks to assist them in getting funding for at least part of the scheme and the link road.

    “It is a difficult time for developers and we appreciate that, but we are hopeful the scheme will move forward to a start."


    Are you suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to apply for permission for, and develop, sites elsewhere until they've built this one?

    I am afraid that claim is rubbish. Indeed everyone in the area knows it is rubbish. Newark was granted Growth Point status by the last Government. As a result there is substantial funding available for many of the things that would normally hold up such a development. If the developers don't have the money for the actual building work at this site where so much is being provided for them then yes I would suggest that questions should be asked about how they can afford to fund other developments.

    Having been intimately involved with this particular development - including having provided archaeological assessments that were accepted by the developers as part of the application process - I am well aware of the substantial support being given to the project and am also well aware of the lack of any moves at all by the developers to move the project forward.

  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    tim said:

    JohnO said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    There will be something on rail.
    As for the rest well that polling tells you just how ridiculous all of the Marxism garbage from Cameron is, Miliband is not only more centrist than the vast bulk of voters, he's more centrist than Tory voters on these issues.

    Blairism 1997-2010. RIP.

    You must be gutted.
    I'm not bothered who owns a power plant (I'd rather it was British pension funds getting the green taxes Osborne signed over to the Chinese Communists) but the polling is dire for the Tories, your leader and party are seen as the GOP and Romney are seen in the US
    You ARE being petulant to-day. Is it the weather or the scale of Ed's cowardice on HS2 finally sinking in? And it looked so promising - you said so yourself.
    Carry on ignoring the polling, your man is seen as about as representative as a Downton Abbey character
    Groan. Shape up, sunbeam, that was a dreadful retort. Even IoS could mange better.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited November 2013

    Having been intimately involved with this particular development - including having provided archaeological assessments that were accepted by the developers as part of the application process - I am well aware of the substantial support being given to the project and am also well aware of the lack of any moves at all by the developers to move the project forward.

    So your theory is that the developers are perversely refusing to develop in the hope of higher prices later, or what exactly? Financiers are falling over themselves to fund this scheme, but the developers are perversely refusing to do so?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited November 2013
    tim said:

    You're dependent on pumping house prices and consumer debt but want to preach responsibility, interesting mixture

    Richard T has just given us a textbook example of why the market needed some help. It sounds as though it might be too late, or not enough, to get that particular scheme built, or maybe the scheme was never going to be viable, but excess demand and a housing bubble don't seem to be problems in Newark at least. Quite the opposite: the developers are having problems financing the construction.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    tim said:

    tim said:

    I'm not bothered who owns a power plant (I'd rather it was British pension funds getting the green taxes Osborne signed over to the Chinese Communists) but the polling is dire for the Tories, your leader and party are seen as the GOP and Romney are seen in the US

    We shall see. Maybe the population does want to go back to the dark ages (certainly French voters seemed to, although they very rapidly realised their mistake, albeit too late). But I'm optimistic that sanity will prevail, whilst planning my affairs to get as much protection as I can if it doesn't.
    You're dependent on pumping house prices and consumer debt but want to preach responsibility, interesting mixture

    tim.. more repetition than even the BBC.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    tim said:

    I'm not bothered who owns a power plant (I'd rather it was British pension funds getting the green taxes Osborne signed over to the Chinese Communists) but the polling is dire for the Tories, your leader and party are seen as the GOP and Romney are seen in the US

    We shall see. Maybe the population does want to go back to the dark ages (certainly French voters seemed to, although they very rapidly realised their mistake, albeit too late). But I'm optimistic that sanity will prevail, whilst planning my affairs to get as much protection as I can if it doesn't.
    You're dependent on pumping house prices and consumer debt but want to preach responsibility, interesting mixture
    tim still thinks the crash was caused by rising house prices - and the government has much influence over London house prices.

    There really is no hope.

  • @tim - the issue with housing is that what may be "good for Britain" may not be "good for me" - as the poll today showed. Promising to build 300,000 houses a year may have been a vote winner post-WWII - it's a lot less clear today. But if Ed wants to give it a go - and deliver it - good luck to him! Though the higher mortgage rates caused by the borrowing required for massive social housing building may of course widen the gap between what's good for "Britain" and "me"....
  • There are a couple of important gubernatorial elections coming up tomorrow in the US that could well define the contours of the 2016 presidential election:

    "On the face of it, close confidant of the Clintons and Democratic candidate for Governor of Virginia Terry McAuliffe's likely victory in tomorrow's election should be good news for his former bosses and the party he represents. But a big McAuliffe win could well prove to be a double-edged sword, particularly for Hillary Clinton's presidential ambitions.

    Both of the Clintons have campaigned for the old friend in the Dominion, with Hillary making her first political appearance and speech since her retirement as Secretary of State at a McAuliffe event. But McAuliffe winning comfortably against Republican candidate and arch-conservative Ken Cuccinelli could paradoxically spell bad news for Hillary...

    Could tomorrow's elections finally provide the wake-up call that conservative Republicans need to demonstrate that they shouldn't sacrifice the good for the perfect (i.e. focus on electability rather than purity)?

    I wouldn't count on it, though the recent polling shows that by a 9 percentage point margin (49-40) Republicans disapproved of the conduct of the Tea Party-affiliated GOP congressmen during the shut-down. The big question is will those antics and tomorrow's likely results be enough to incentivize them to go out and take back control of their Party from an ideological fringe movement."

    Full post available on my blog - I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. :)

    A Yellow Guard - Why Virginia could spell trouble for Hillary and the Dems

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 16m

    Labour not to reopen Falkirk inquiry because key witness stands by sworn affidavit she gave to party in September.

    Leverage still in place...
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Good evening, everyone.

    Miss Vance, a majority also want to reintroduce hanging and leave the EU.

    TGOHF said:

    MrJones said:

    TGOHF said:

    MrJones said:

    The left half of the political class want to import millions of new voters. The people who own the right half want to import millions of workers to drive down wages. Hence both halves colluding in unlimited mass immigration against the wishes of the public and thereby massively increasing the demand for housing. They can't meet that demand openly because that would involve the political class stopping lying about their intentions. Hence the ongoing housing crisis.

    Yet look at the total no of Labour voters between 1997-2010 , down 5 million.

    If new immigrants are voting Labour then not many of those that were here before 1997 are.

    For the Left it's bad short-term (beacause they lose existing voters at a faster rate) but good long-term.

    For the Right it's good short-term (lower wage costs) and bad long-term (because it ends with a permanent left majority).

    (See California for details.)
    Has anyone ever done an effnick based poll in the Uk ?

    Why the bizarre spelling of ethnic ?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Falkirk non story - now on BBC News at 6. Witness hadn't changed statement, why was Unite cleared by Labour...
  • TGOHF said:

    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 16m

    Labour not to reopen Falkirk inquiry because key witness stands by sworn affidavit she gave to party in September.

    Leverage still in place...

    The logic there escapes me...but the BBC 6 o'clock news has evidently fallen for Len's "Tory plot"...

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    @tim - the issue with housing is that what may be "good for Britain" may not be "good for me" - as the poll today showed. Promising to build 300,000 houses a year may have been a vote winner post-WWII - it's a lot less clear today. But if Ed wants to give it a go - and deliver it - good luck to him! Though the higher mortgage rates caused by the borrowing required for massive social housing building may of course widen the gap between what's good for "Britain" and "me"....

    The thing about building social housing is not just the capital costs of the building (and the interest payments on the subsequent debt), but the running costs.

    Social Housing is expensive. Very expensive. The rent/housing benefit is only half of the story. The other half is the social housing rent subsidy. This is claimed to be £3,600 per tenant per year.

    Social housing doesnt make financial sense outside of areas with private sector rents are greater than the rent + SHRS together.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 16m

    Labour not to reopen Falkirk inquiry because key witness stands by sworn affidavit she gave to party in September.

    Leverage still in place...

    The logic there escapes me...but the BBC 6 o'clock news has evidently fallen for Len's "Tory plot"...

    Look - the witness we ignore hasn't changed their story - no need for us to do it all again and ignore her one more time...
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    I guess the voting public aren't as stupid as Cameron and Osborne assume when it comes to the impact of rising house prices.

    I'm sure they are also fairly clued up about the causes of the financial crisis, it was only a few years ago after all.

    They know, in broad outline, that our economy was wrecked by excessive private sector debt, arrogant and reckless deregulated private sector risk and greed, all backed up by an illusionary asset bubble.

    Our economy needed rebalancing, but Cameron and Osborne have chosen the weak and easy route of repeating those mistakes.

    Miliband is going to inherit one hell of a mess.
  • Welcome to pb.com, cripipper.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Disclaimer - the below post is NOT about the moral or economic rights and wrongs of the policy, nor about my household income, so can The Obsessed please think before posting. This is a post about the scheme's administration.

    I finally got through to someone vaguely sentient at HMRC today, to express my frustration at still not having a tax form so I can pay the Child Tax through the SA system (even though I am on PAYE). She helped me, said they have had lots of complaints about the process and:

    "We don't know why the government has set it up this way."
    "We have had lots of feedback and are passing it through"
    "We think the government might end up changing the system"

    I now have access to the online form.
    I have filled in what I can based on the info I have.
    I am now 1% through the form.

    Current time spent on this: ~4 hours.

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2013
    Http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/PublishingImages/hew/2012/Dec/chart1.GIF
    R0berts said:

    I guess the voting public aren't as stupid as Cameron and Osborne assume when it comes to the impact of rising house prices.

    I'm sure they are also fairly clued up about the causes of the financial crisis, it was only a few years ago after all.

    They know, in broad outline, that our economy was wrecked by excessive private sector debt, arrogant and reckless deregulated private sector risk and greed, all backed up by an illusionary asset bubble.

    Our economy needed rebalancing, but Cameron and Osborne have chosen the weak and easy route of repeating those mistakes.

    Miliband is going to inherit one hell of a mess.

    Do you have any idea how much net per typical quarter was withdrawn from the Uk housing equity stock for spending by Uk householders and compare it with now ?

    Clue - here's the figures until the end of 2012

    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/PublishingImages/hew/2012/Dec/chart1.GIF

    Feel free to point out the debt bubble...

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    R0berts said:

    I guess the voting public aren't as stupid as Cameron and Osborne assume when it comes to the impact of rising house prices.

    I'm sure they are also fairly clued up about the causes of the financial crisis, it was only a few years ago after all.

    They know, in broad outline, that our economy was wrecked by excessive private sector debt, arrogant and reckless deregulated private sector risk and greed, all backed up by an illusionary asset bubble.

    Our economy needed rebalancing, but Cameron and Osborne have chosen the weak and easy route of repeating those mistakes.

    Miliband is going to inherit one hell of a mess.

    Yes, he will inherit the Brown mess that will not be cleared up by 2020.
  • Mr. Ajob, although not remotely affected by the change it does seem a rather stupid way to go about it.

    The entire system could do with being replaced by something more straightforward, and cheaper for the taxpayer.
  • R0berts said:

    IMiliband is going to inherit one hell of a mess.

    If he does, looking on the bright side, it won't be as big a mess as he helped create....
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Morris

    Damned right. I said to her "why didn't you just tax the benefit at source?" She said: " that's what we thought they would do, set up some sort of new tax code."

    TGOHF was right first time - it's a shambles. I never got a letter so I suspect many will struggle to pay it, through ignorance or complete bafflement at the system.
  • Having been intimately involved with this particular development - including having provided archaeological assessments that were accepted by the developers as part of the application process - I am well aware of the substantial support being given to the project and am also well aware of the lack of any moves at all by the developers to move the project forward.

    So your theory is that the developers are perversely refusing to develop in the hope of higher prices later, or what exactly? Financiers are falling over themselves to fund this scheme, but the developers are perversely refusing to do so?
    To be honest Richard I am not going to ascribe specific motives to a developer since I am pretty sure Mike's libel lawyers wouldn't stand a chance of defending against any suit. All I am saying is that the case in point shows that the claims that it was or is planning rules that are preventing building projects proceeding is clearly false. The planning permissions are in place and it is clearly other factors - both in and out of the control of the developers - that are stopping these projects proceeding.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    The Six O'Clock news is bad for Ed
    lol

    "By any means necessary"

    The Labour - Unite election slogan ?
  • SeanT said:

    Why didn't they kill me?

    Because they couldn't smell you over the stench of diesel from the jeep you were sitting in..well, that's what I was told on safari - along with the enjoinder UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES TO GET OUT OF THE JEEP.
  • Bobajob said:

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

    Why any more insane than anyone else having to fill in a tax return?

    For example, as a company director, I've had to fill in tax returns since time immemorial, despite the fact that my tax affairs are about as simple as they could be.
  • tim said:

    The Six O'Clock news is bad for Ed
    lol

    So Falkirk has gone from a "non-story" to "good for Ed"?

    It's a view......

  • The YouGov polling on support for renationalisation of the railways and utilities is interesting, but should be treated with caution, because:

    1. it could well just be an extension of the current public dissatisfaction with the status quo, rather than a positive endorsement of a socialist agenda;

    2. asking a single question in isolation without any further information or debate is unlikely to result in a considered view; and

    3. parties supporting these policies have no significant support.

    However - and this is a significant however - the polling does indicate that Labour have considerable scope to pursue and expand their populist agenda, flirting with greater Government intervention on the side of "the people" and increasingly isolating the Conservatives as defenders of the status quo, the rich and the powerful. The Conservatives must develop a powerful and cogent counterargument and find the right way to deliver that does not so isolate them and that appeals to the electorate's mind, if not its heart. It's a tough ask and I am not overly confident that Conservatives are up to it.

    There has been a lot of issues based polling recently, and I am not sure it is terribly helpful. In some instances the question is the problem: In re IPSOS-Mori, I am reasonably confident that if a similar sized and weighted Panel were to be asked "do you think falling house prices are a good thing for Britain" and "do you think that static house prices are a good thing for Britain" both would result in a resounding "no". In other instance's its the lack of context that's the problem: asked each question individually, majorities would support all or most of tax cuts, spending increases, pay rises for all, pay constraint for some (others), government debt reduction, government borrowing to fund investment, more housebuilding nationally, a moratorium of housebuilding in their local area etc etc. It doesn't amount to a coherent programme. Ultimately you have to look at how popular political parties are and try to extraolate from that how the electorate really feels about a policy programme, but it is very difficult in all but the most clear-cut cases (e.g. poll tax).

    Part 2 to follow
  • Part 2

    Finally, on the UNITE/Falkirk story; this is actually one of those hugely important stories that poses real challenges to a political party and goes to the heart of its morale and suitability to govern...but that won't have any electoral impact. The Tories' failure so far to make the UNITE = Ed line stick is remarkable but I don't think repetition is helping them particularly now. Like Cameron's membership of the Bullingdon club, the Boris/Guppy story, and countless politicians' dalliances with illegal substances or dubious expenses claims, its been factored in as much as it ever will, absent a startling change of circumstances.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Bobajob said:

    Disclaimer - the below post is NOT about the moral or economic rights and wrongs of the policy, nor about my household income, so can The Obsessed please think before posting. This is a post about the scheme's administration.

    I finally got through to someone vaguely sentient at HMRC today, to express my frustration at still not having a tax form so I can pay the Child Tax through the SA system (even though I am on PAYE). She helped me, said they have had lots of complaints about the process and:

    "We don't know why the government has set it up this way."
    "We have had lots of feedback and are passing it through"
    "We think the government might end up changing the system"

    I now have access to the online form.
    I have filled in what I can based on the info I have.
    I am now 1% through the form.

    Current time spent on this: ~4 hours.

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

    Change the record.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    SeanT said:

    Evenin' from the Zambesi. Someone was asking if I had any photos of this trip.

    But photos aren't allowed on pb now, right? So here's a couple of vids of this thing that happened to me t'other day. I was in Luangwa on a game drive in a car with no windows, gun, doors or roof... When a pride of lions emerged. They headed towards us. They headed right past us. The lionesses were six inches from my knee.

    Heart stopping. Why didn't they kill me? Then we followed the lions down to a gulley - where they killed a stricken buffalo. Right there. & then, exultant, we retreated to the lip of the valley to celebrate with G&Ts and THEN a load of elephants came and confronted the lions...,

    And there was a big stand off and the lions roared and the elephants snorted and then it all went quiet. Just. Totally. Amazing. AND.... I managed to film some of it. Here are the lions coming up to me yet not killing me. http://t.co/TXxYnbA8b0 You can hear me panicking

    And here is The Kill. http://t.co/Rpdgrpvouk

    By then I was too drunk to film the elephants fighting the lions.

    Superb, Sean. Well done.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Bobajob said:

    Disclaimer - the below post is NOT about the moral or economic rights and wrongs of the policy, nor about my household income, so can The Obsessed please think before posting. This is a post about the scheme's administration.

    I finally got through to someone vaguely sentient at HMRC today, to express my frustration at still not having a tax form so I can pay the Child Tax through the SA system (even though I am on PAYE). She helped me, said they have had lots of complaints about the process and:

    "We don't know why the government has set it up this way."
    "We have had lots of feedback and are passing it through"
    "We think the government might end up changing the system"

    I now have access to the online form.
    I have filled in what I can based on the info I have.
    I am now 1% through the form.

    Current time spent on this: ~4 hours.

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

    Hmm - One thing that is annoying is how tax is personal but benefits are household based. They should probably both be one, or the other.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Financier said:

    R0berts said:

    I guess the voting public aren't as stupid as Cameron and Osborne assume when it comes to the impact of rising house prices.

    I'm sure they are also fairly clued up about the causes of the financial crisis, it was only a few years ago after all.

    They know, in broad outline, that our economy was wrecked by excessive private sector debt, arrogant and reckless deregulated private sector risk and greed, all backed up by an illusionary asset bubble.

    Our economy needed rebalancing, but Cameron and Osborne have chosen the weak and easy route of repeating those mistakes.

    Miliband is going to inherit one hell of a mess.

    Yes, he will inherit the Brown mess that will not be cleared up by 2020.
    Am I right in thinking that no-one failed to get elected by over-estimating the stupidity of the electorate. Or something like that!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Bobajob said:

    Disclaimer - the below post is NOT about the moral or economic rights and wrongs of the policy, nor about my household income, so can The Obsessed please think before posting. This is a post about the scheme's administration.

    I finally got through to someone vaguely sentient at HMRC today, to express my frustration at still not having a tax form so I can pay the Child Tax through the SA system (even though I am on PAYE). She helped me, said they have had lots of complaints about the process and:

    "We don't know why the government has set it up this way."
    "We have had lots of feedback and are passing it through"
    "We think the government might end up changing the system"

    I now have access to the online form.
    I have filled in what I can based on the info I have.
    I am now 1% through the form.

    Current time spent on this: ~4 hours.

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

    How good is your filing system?

    With a P40 and P11D (if needed) plus tax report for any investments, a bank statement / interest report and a list of any charity donations or pension contributions you have made it should be very quick and easy to fill in a self-assessment form. (I'm assuming you are not self-employed - don't know, although imagine it would be more complex)
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    tim said:

    Bobajob said:

    Disclaimer - the below post is NOT about the moral or economic rights and wrongs of the policy, nor about my household income, so can The Obsessed please think before posting. This is a post about the scheme's administration.

    I finally got through to someone vaguely sentient at HMRC today, to express my frustration at still not having a tax form so I can pay the Child Tax through the SA system (even though I am on PAYE). She helped me, said they have had lots of complaints about the process and:

    "We don't know why the government has set it up this way."
    "We have had lots of feedback and are passing it through"
    "We think the government might end up changing the system"

    I now have access to the online form.
    I have filled in what I can based on the info I have.
    I am now 1% through the form.

    Current time spent on this: ~4 hours.

    Let's hope the government do change the system. It is insane.

    Change the record.
    Are you the latest manifestation of the imbecile Maggie Thatcher Fan/Exeunt Omnes telling someone to change the record?
    bit rich coming from you tim, who has about 20 memes and posts about them endlessly.. Its like a tiny carousel.
    Of course I knew that you, when challenged, would attack the "individual" rather than the point made, its what you do every time someone points out something that is true and you have no answer to. In fact if the poster is female its about 100% guaranteed.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    Evenin' from the Zambesi. Someone was asking if I had any photos of this trip.

    But photos aren't allowed on pb now, right? So here's a couple of vids of this thing that happened to me t'other day. I was in Luangwa on a game drive in a car with no windows, gun, doors or roof... When a pride of lions emerged. They headed towards us. They headed right past us. The lionesses were six inches from my knee.

    Heart stopping. Why didn't they kill me? Then we followed the lions down to a gulley - where they killed a stricken buffalo. Right there. & then, exultant, we retreated to the lip of the valley to celebrate with G&Ts and THEN a load of elephants came and confronted the lions...,

    And there was a big stand off and the lions roared and the elephants snorted and then it all went quiet. Just. Totally. Amazing. AND.... I managed to film some of it. Here are the lions coming up to me yet not killing me. http://t.co/TXxYnbA8b0 You can hear me panicking

    And here is The Kill. http://t.co/Rpdgrpvouk

    By then I was too drunk to film the elephants fighting the lions.

    Was it a reserve? A mate did some work out there and said they disable animals - leaving them in the same area each time - to feed the lions. Just like feeding in a wildlife park. So the lions don't need to attack humans as they know where the easy meat comes from. Unless the lions chased/brought down the buffalo.
  • @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    "There are a couple of important gubernatorial elections coming up tomorrow in the US that could well define the contours of the 2016 presidential election."

    The Virginia election will be decided largely on local issues and candidate popularity. It is unlikely to have much significance for national politics, whatever the outcome.

    Could be different in New Jersey where a big Christie win (now looking very likely) could be seen as a rebuff to the right wing of the GOP. It could also convince all wings that they may have a winner here, in which case they may shelve their ideological issues until after he has beaten Hillary or A.N.Other.

    Back Christie for the nomination now, while the 8/1 lasts.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Its more than that. Lions are very lazy, they spend most of their time sleeping, and hunt what is familiar. They are not interested in hunting vehicles, and are mostly irritated by them. You see them indulging in displacement activity such as grooming when vehicles are about

    You often see antelopes grazing a hundred meters or so away. They know the lions are there, but they also know when they have eaten and will not attack.

    In the Luangua valley in Zambia, and in the Exeter reserve in South Africa, I have done walking safaris, with a guide. If you have a guide who knows their animal behaviour, it is quite safe. It is much more peaceful.

    If you think that seeing large mammals from an open vehicle is a buzz, try a walking safari. Seeing an elephant from 10 yards in the wilderness, with only a guide at your side is a real cardiovascular workout for the jaded ennui of modern life. It is quite a primordial sensation.

    Be careful about baboons though, they are clever enough not to be afraid, are aggressive and have a bite worse than a German Shepherd.

    SeanT said:

    Why didn't they kill me?

    Because they couldn't smell you over the stench of diesel from the jeep you were sitting in..well, that's what I was told on safari - along with the enjoinder UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES TO GET OUT OF THE JEEP.
  • So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    If it is not for him, then it is not for him.

    If he enjoys the amateur game, then great.

    If not, then he will use his talents will take him elsewhere. Putting pressure on him would only make the stress worse, and make him unhappy.

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Labour: 'No plans' to reopen Falkirk vote-rigging inquiry.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24801672

    When you up to @rse in alligators, it is hard to remember that you were trying to drain the swamp.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.
  • So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    You say well done, I'm proud of you for what you have done and for having the courage to know when you need to change, so what are you going to do next? Whatever it is you will support him (as I am sure you would judging by your posts on here)
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    Carola said:

    SeanT said:

    Evenin' from the Zambesi. Someone was asking if I had any photos of this trip.

    But photos aren't allowed on pb now, right? So here's a couple of vids of this thing that happened to me t'other day. I was in Luangwa on a game drive in a car with no windows, gun, doors or roof... When a pride of lions emerged. They headed towards us. They headed right past us. The lionesses were six inches from my knee.

    Heart stopping. Why didn't they kill me? Then we followed the lions down to a gulley - where they killed a stricken buffalo. Right there. & then, exultant, we retreated to the lip of the valley to celebrate with G&Ts and THEN a load of elephants came and confronted the lions...,

    And there was a big stand off and the lions roared and the elephants snorted and then it all went quiet. Just. Totally. Amazing. AND.... I managed to film some of it. Here are the lions coming up to me yet not killing me. http://t.co/TXxYnbA8b0 You can hear me panicking

    And here is The Kill. http://t.co/Rpdgrpvouk

    By then I was too drunk to film the elephants fighting the lions.

    Was it a reserve? A mate did some work out there and said they disable animals - leaving them in the same area each time - to feed the lions. Just like feeding in a wildlife park. So the lions don't need to attack humans as they know where the easy meat comes from. Unless the lions chased/brought down the buffalo.
    God no. This is South Luangwa National Park, one of the best run and most iconic National Parks in Africa.

    The buffalo was stricken from hunger and thirst, and had fallen in the mud, too weak to stand up again. It is quite common at the very end of the Dry Season - i.e. Right Now.
    Ah. Maybe just reserves then. They don't say that, obv.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    tim said:

    The Six O'Clock news is bad for Ed
    lol

    So Falkirk has gone from a "non-story" to "good for Ed"?

    It's a view......

    What is the Falkirk/Grangemouth/Unite/EricJoyce story again?
  • So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    You say well done, I'm proud of you for what you have done and for having the courage to know when you need to change, so what are you going to do next? Whatever it is you will support him (as I am sure you would judging by your posts on here)

    Thank-you - much appreciated. It's come out of the blue, He's a bit all over the place, bless him. And it's thrown me as well. But you are absolutely right.

  • If it is not for him, then it is not for him.

    If he enjoys the amateur game, then great.

    If not, then he will use his talents will take him elsewhere. Putting pressure on him would only make the stress worse, and make him unhappy.

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Thanks. I think amateur is what he wants to be. It's just such a bolt form the blue. But you are right. It's his call and he gets our support no matter what.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nothing beats a good safari, and it is very important to have a good guide. Are you with Robin Pope?

    South Luangwa is amazingly empty of people and tourists. A bit tricky to get to, but well worth the trip.

    Lovely country, Zambia.
    SeanT said:

    Its more than that. Lions are very lazy, they spend most of their time sleeping, and hunt what is familiar. They are not interested in hunting vehicles, and are mostly irritated by them. You see them indulging in displacement activity such as grooming when vehicles are about

    You often see antelopes grazing a hundred meters or so away. They know the lions are there, but they also know when they have eaten and will not attack.

    In the Luangua valley in Zambia, and in the Exeter reserve in South Africa, I have done walking safaris, with a guide. If you have a guide who knows their animal behaviour, it is quite safe. It is much more peaceful.

    If you think that seeing large mammals from an open vehicle is a buzz, try a walking safari. Seeing an elephant from 10 yards in the wilderness, with only a guide at your side is a real cardiovascular workout for the jaded ennui of modern life. It is quite a primordial sensation.

    Be careful about baboons though, they are clever enough not to be afraid, are aggressive and have a bite worse than a German Shepherd.


    SeanT said:

    Why didn't they kill me?

    Because they couldn't smell you over the stench of diesel from the jeep you were sitting in..well, that's what I was told on safari - along with the enjoinder UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES TO GET OUT OF THE JEEP.
    I did game walks as well, esp in the Kafue, and we got mock charged by bull elephants. This also happened when we were boating on Kafue river.

    It was most stimulating. But it does not compare to the buzz of those lions. Intense.
  • corporeal said:

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.

    Thank-you. It's obvious when you see it written down. But I guess we had all invested so much in the process that to have it suddenly end is a bit of a shock. But as long as he is happy with what he has done, that's the end of it.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    My lad would have made a very good doctor, but it was not for him, he is doing something very different. I love the job, and get a buzz from the stress, but we are all different.

    I expect that your son has put a lot of thought into it before spitting it out, but always good to be sure that it is not just because of some run in that will pass.

    Best wishes to him.

    If it is not for him, then it is not for him.

    If he enjoys the amateur game, then great.

    If not, then he will use his talents will take him elsewhere. Putting pressure on him would only make the stress worse, and make him unhappy.

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Thanks. I think amateur is what he wants to be. It's just such a bolt form the blue. But you are right. It's his call and he gets our support no matter what.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    "There are a couple of important gubernatorial elections coming up tomorrow in the US that could well define the contours of the 2016 presidential election."

    The Virginia election will be decided largely on local issues and candidate popularity. It is unlikely to have much significance for national politics, whatever the outcome.

    Could be different in New Jersey where a big Christie win (now looking very likely) could be seen as a rebuff to the right wing of the GOP. It could also convince all wings that they may have a winner here, in which case they may shelve their ideological issues until after he has beaten Hillary or A.N.Other.

    Back Christie for the nomination now, while the 8/1 lasts.

    If you are maxed out with Hills, try again a bit later - I was restricted to £10, but wanted to get on for 20 - tried another 10 a bit ago and was accepted even though original stakes were restricted !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Bobajob said:

    tim said:

    The Six O'Clock news is bad for Ed
    lol

    So Falkirk has gone from a "non-story" to "good for Ed"?

    It's a view......

    What is the Falkirk/Grangemouth/Unite/EricJoyce story again?
    Just remember it's all Ed's fault - not just in Falkirk but anywhere. Even the TPims debacle.

    2 out of 10 have now disappeared. Another 8 , the problem's solved. The Tories do have a strategy, you see !
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited November 2013

    My lad would have made a very good doctor, but it was not for him, he is doing something very different. I love the job, and get a buzz from the stress, but we are all different.

    I expect that your son has put a lot of thought into it before spitting it out, but always good to be sure that it is not just because of some run in that will pass.

    Best wishes to him.

    If it is not for him, then it is not for him.

    If he enjoys the amateur game, then great.

    If not, then he will use his talents will take him elsewhere. Putting pressure on him would only make the stress worse, and make him unhappy.

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Thanks. I think amateur is what he wants to be. It's just such a bolt form the blue. But you are right. It's his call and he gets our support no matter what.

    He's pretty young and has not lived away from home before. And it's intense training three times a week, plus conditioning, as well as the actual games, on top of which he has all his studying to do. I think it has all just got too much. And he wants to enjoy being at university as well. In the end I think he wants rugby to be something you do in your spare time, not as a career. At least it means much less stress for me on Wednesdays and Saturdays now!!

  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    SO

    The other aspect to be aware of is a period down the line when the 'if only' 'it could be me' 'it could be so different'

    Self recrimination and resentment are both possible in time.

    Be positive about the decision now and try not to let him dwell on the good choice he had made in a way that saps self belief.

    Support now, but also in years to come.

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    corporeal said:

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.

    Thank-you. It's obvious when you see it written down. But I guess we had all invested so much in the process that to have it suddenly end is a bit of a shock. But as long as he is happy with what he has done, that's the end of it.

    No problem. I was a rugby boy myself (nowhere near pro, but I know guys who were on that track at one time or another and the sort of stresses it puts them under) I think as fitalass says, ask if he wants to drop back down into the hobby side of it (if he's come close to being pro I'd guess he enjoys playing at least, and it keeps his hand in if in a short while he changes his mind). But sometimes guys want to get out of it altogether and go a completely different way.
  • Pulpstar said:

    @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    "There are a couple of important gubernatorial elections coming up tomorrow in the US that could well define the contours of the 2016 presidential election."

    The Virginia election will be decided largely on local issues and candidate popularity. It is unlikely to have much significance for national politics, whatever the outcome.

    Could be different in New Jersey where a big Christie win (now looking very likely) could be seen as a rebuff to the right wing of the GOP. It could also convince all wings that they may have a winner here, in which case they may shelve their ideological issues until after he has beaten Hillary or A.N.Other.

    Back Christie for the nomination now, while the 8/1 lasts.

    If you are maxed out with Hills, try again a bit later - I was restricted to £10, but wanted to get on for 20 - tried another 10 a bit ago and was accepted even though original stakes were restricted !
    It means a walk round to the betting shop, and it's raining!

    Anyway, I have £60 on him already which will do for the time being.
  • philiph said:

    SO

    The other aspect to be aware of is a period down the line when the 'if only' 'it could be me' 'it could be so different'

    Self recrimination and resentment are both possible in time.

    Be positive about the decision now and try not to let him dwell on the good choice he had made in a way that saps self belief.

    Support now, but also in years to come.

    Absolutely - it's the "what if" the worries me. I would just hate him to have regrets. But if he does he does, I suppose. Managing them is what being a grown-up is all about. As you say, we just have to be there for him. I imagine that tomorrow it will all seem a little less dramatic anyway.

  • @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    "There are a couple of important gubernatorial elections coming up tomorrow in the US that could well define the contours of the 2016 presidential election."

    The Virginia election will be decided largely on local issues and candidate popularity. It is unlikely to have much significance for national politics, whatever the outcome.

    Could be different in New Jersey where a big Christie win (now looking very likely) could be seen as a rebuff to the right wing of the GOP. It could also convince all wings that they may have a winner here, in which case they may shelve their ideological issues until after he has beaten Hillary or A.N.Other.

    Back Christie for the nomination now, while the 8/1 lasts.

    It's not quite so simple Peter: the Virginia race is in many ways more important than New Jersey. The bottom line is that Christie has no hope of securing the nomination unless the GOP take away the lessons from Virginia.

    It is 40 years since the party in the White House won the governorship, and Virginia is a swing state crucial to any Republican hopes of regaining the White House in 2016. They were expecting to win it, plain and simple. Factor in the proximity to Washington D.C. and the Virginia result has the potential to have significant national ramifications.

    Christie's victory will not stand as a rebuff to the Right, any more than Mitt Romney's victory in Massachussetts was. The right can write it off as being that Christie has to act in that way to get elected in New Jersey, but no GOP candidate is going to win New Jersey in the general.

    Christie's path to the nomination also suffered a set-back this weekend with the publication of a book on the 2012 race, for which the Romney camp gave the authors their research on Christie when he was considered for VP. The bitterness between Romney and Christie runs deep.

    Nonetheless, I still think that Christie will get the nomination, because the GOP always nominates the establishment's candidate. However, the party base is in a restless mood, and have taken away completely the wrong lessons from the shutdown and debt ceiling fight. Whether they will be prepared to fall into line once again, as per form, is more questionable now than at any point in the past.
  • corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.

    Thank-you. It's obvious when you see it written down. But I guess we had all invested so much in the process that to have it suddenly end is a bit of a shock. But as long as he is happy with what he has done, that's the end of it.

    No problem. I was a rugby boy myself (nowhere near pro, but I know guys who were on that track at one time or another and the sort of stresses it puts them under) I think as fitalass says, ask if he wants to drop back down into the hobby side of it (if he's come close to being pro I'd guess he enjoys playing at least, and it keeps his hand in if in a short while he changes his mind). But sometimes guys want to get out of it altogether and go a completely different way.

    I think he'll keep on playing. He was just not liking playing at the level he has been at this season. Rugby is a great game, but once you hit a certain standard there is a necessary intensity that you just have to possess in order to take the next step and then the next one. Right now he feels that he does not have it, so instead of pretending he has made a very big (and I think brave) decision to recognise that.

  • @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    Also, thank you for the welcome, though it is quite unnecessary. I am formerly of this parish, although under a different guise. :)
  • A man wielding a knife has hijacked a bus in western Norway and killed three passengers, media reports say.

    The suspect, said to be in his 50s and of foreign origin, has been arrested, police told Norway's TV2 news channel.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24812042
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    You've been whining about mythical 70p tax rates for weeks , now you are whining about the system that operates to control it, All you do is whine, whine, whine, its a bit rich to criticise me when all you do is whine.. You are earning loads , you must be to have to have your code restricted,...., live with it. Most people would love to earn what you do.. its typical of lefty doublethink.
    Recently I have been pointing out hypocrisy to certain people, they don't like being criticised for exactly the same thing they criticise others for.
  • @Surbiton
    "Just remember it's all Ed's fault - not just in Falkirk but anywhere. Even the TPims debacle."

    No, it's not all Ed's fault. Noone says it's all Ed's fault.

    The problem is, Ed said that the Labour party were going to investigate Falkirk.
    But they chickened out of properly investigating.
    And Ed was too weak to deliver the investigation that he promised.



  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Use your judgement. We can't help you.

    If encouragement will get him over the hump, then encourage him.

    If it's a final decision then support him. The last thing he needs now is to think he has let you down.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited November 2013
    Labour: 'No plans' to reopen Falkirk vote-rigging inquiry

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24801672

    Move along, nothing to see...

    "The Sunday Times said it had seen 1,000 emails to and from Mr Deans, which it said revealed the full extent of the plot to influence the selection process.

    Its story also included extracts of the internal Labour report in which Labour officials said there were "deliberate attempts to frustrate" interviews with some of the key witnesses.

    The emails suggested that a letter retracting key evidence in the Labour investigation was not written by the witnesses but by union officials and approved by Mr Deans, according to the Sunday Times."

    No, still nothing to see...
  • cripipper said:

    @cripipper

    Greetings and welcome to the Site.

    Also, thank you for the welcome, though it is quite unnecessary. I am formerly of this parish, although under a different guise. :)
    No prob, Crip.

    Many others have done likewise, mostly for honorable reasons.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election Projection Countdown :

    12 hours 12 minutes
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
    I'm on it Charles - a bloody hassle though. In time, some government will rationalise it, do it source etc. But I think we are stuck with it for a while!
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    You've been whining about mythical 70p tax rates for weeks , now you are whining about the system that operates to control it, All you do is whine, whine, whine, its a bit rich to criticise me when all you do is whine.. You are earning loads , you must be to have to have your code restricted,...., live with it. Most people would love to earn what you do.. its typical of lefty doublethink.
    Recently I have been pointing out hypocrisy to certain people, they don't like being criticised for exactly the same thing they criticise others for.
    Thanks for your measured feedback.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Bobajob said:

    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
    I'm on it Charles - a bloody hassle though. In time, some government will rationalise it, do it source etc. But I think we are stuck with it for a while!
    I send my tax guy 6 bits of paper a year, he talks to my bank manager, my investment managers and sends me a form to sign... plus a very modest bill
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Bobajob said:

    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
    I'm on it Charles - a bloody hassle though. In time, some government will rationalise it, do it source etc. But I think we are stuck with it for a while!
    We had one recent CofE who complicated taxation in lots of ways.

  • FPT JohnO:

    "I noticed in last night's thread you cited Grimsby, Cleethorpes and Walsall as the kind of places the Tories need to attract.

    It must appal you to realize that in these seats, those Nottinghill Hill, out-of-touch, elitist metropolitan PPE-tainted fops achieved amongst the Conservatives' most spectacular results in 2010:

    GREAT GRIMSBY - 10.5% swing Lab-Con
    CLEETHORPES - 7.8% swing
    WALSALL N - 9.0% swing
    WALSALL S - 8.2% swing"

    I'm well aware of where the biggest swings were in 2010 and they certainly weren't in the places you expected them to be.

    But let me explain that those swings were of the anti-Labour variety rather than the pro-Conservative. Issues such as deindustrialisation and immigration being topical in those places even though Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in them. That you assume that the swings were because of Cameron just reveals your complacent ignorance.

    Perhaps you thought that there had been a sudden interest in increasing overseas aid in Walsall or that the electorate of Grimsby wanted to vote blue to go green ?

    I dare say you were appalled though that such unfashionable places saw bigger swings than the likes of Tooting, Hammersmith and Westminster North. Constituencies where Cameron's hand picked candidates assumed that they only needed to turn up to win but instead suffered humiliating defeats.

    Keep wallowing away in your complacency JohnO if it makes you happy.

    But it wont win the Conservatives a majority.


  • Mr. Observer, the difference between an error and a mistake is getting something wrong, and failing to realise it. If he's decided the pro rugby path isn't the one for him it's a good thing that he's recognised this before he's walked down it.

    Talk to him about it, and support him. That's all he'll want, or need.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.

    Thank-you. It's obvious when you see it written down. But I guess we had all invested so much in the process that to have it suddenly end is a bit of a shock. But as long as he is happy with what he has done, that's the end of it.

    No problem. I was a rugby boy myself (nowhere near pro, but I know guys who were on that track at one time or another and the sort of stresses it puts them under) I think as fitalass says, ask if he wants to drop back down into the hobby side of it (if he's come close to being pro I'd guess he enjoys playing at least, and it keeps his hand in if in a short while he changes his mind). But sometimes guys want to get out of it altogether and go a completely different way.

    I think he'll keep on playing. He was just not liking playing at the level he has been at this season. Rugby is a great game, but once you hit a certain standard there is a necessary intensity that you just have to possess in order to take the next step and then the next one. Right now he feels that he does not have it, so instead of pretending he has made a very big (and I think brave) decision to recognise that.

    Pro rugby is now bloody dangerous. The players are too big and the hits too intense. Look at Dan Carter.

    At least you are spared the worry he might emerge from a scrum in a wheelchair.

    Good luck to son and father.
    There needs to be a weight limit. The game is in an arms race on body weight and it's injuring too many players too often.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    You've been whining about mythical 70p tax rates for weeks , now you are whining about the system that operates to control it, All you do is whine, whine, whine, its a bit rich to criticise me when all you do is whine.. You are earning loads , you must be to have to have your code restricted,...., live with it. Most people would love to earn what you do.. its typical of lefty doublethink.
    Recently I have been pointing out hypocrisy to certain people, they don't like being criticised for exactly the same thing they criticise others for.
    Thanks for your measured feedback.


    It is measured because you are whining about simplicities, if you can't cope with a tax return, get an Acct, it'll cost you a couple of hundred quid at most.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
    I'm on it Charles - a bloody hassle though. In time, some government will rationalise it, do it source etc. But I think we are stuck with it for a while!
    I send my tax guy 6 bits of paper a year, he talks to my bank manager, my investment managers and sends me a form to sign... plus a very modest bill
    That bill and time will still cost more than the benefit I get!

    @Phillip
    But that was then, and this is now (as Mike is fond of saying)
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    FPT JohnO:

    "I noticed in last night's thread you cited Grimsby, Cleethorpes and Walsall as the kind of places the Tories need to attract.

    It must appal you to realize that in these seats, those Nottinghill Hill, out-of-touch, elitist metropolitan PPE-tainted fops achieved amongst the Conservatives' most spectacular results in 2010:

    GREAT GRIMSBY - 10.5% swing Lab-Con
    CLEETHORPES - 7.8% swing
    WALSALL N - 9.0% swing
    WALSALL S - 8.2% swing"

    I'm well aware of where the biggest swings were in 2010 and they certainly weren't in the places you expected them to be.

    But let me explain that those swings were of the anti-Labour variety rather than the pro-Conservative. Issues such as deindustrialisation and immigration being topical in those places even though Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in them. That you assume that the swings were because of Cameron just reveals your complacent ignorance.

    Perhaps you thought that there had been a sudden interest in increasing overseas aid in Walsall or that the electorate of Grimsby wanted to vote blue to go green ?

    I dare say you were appalled though that such unfashionable places saw bigger swings than the likes of Tooting, Hammersmith and Westminster North. Constituencies where Cameron's hand picked candidates assumed that they only needed to turn up to win but instead suffered humiliating defeats.
    .


    Arguably that's just a London effect, where high earners are much more likely to vote Labour than elsewhere. It's hard to beat Labour in a Labour city.

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    corporeal said:

    corporeal said:

    So what do you say to your 19 year old son who has managed to make it to the tip of being a professional rugby player but just cannot handle the pressure involved and so has jacked it all in?

    Take his time, make sure he's comfortable about the decision and it's not just a snap thing. Then support him in said decision.

    Thank-you. It's obvious when you see it written down. But I guess we had all invested so much in the process that to have it suddenly end is a bit of a shock. But as long as he is happy with what he has done, that's the end of it.

    No problem. I was a rugby boy myself (nowhere near pro, but I know guys who were on that track at one time or another and the sort of stresses it puts them under) I think as fitalass says, ask if he wants to drop back down into the hobby side of it (if he's come close to being pro I'd guess he enjoys playing at least, and it keeps his hand in if in a short while he changes his mind). But sometimes guys want to get out of it altogether and go a completely different way.

    I think he'll keep on playing. He was just not liking playing at the level he has been at this season. Rugby is a great game, but once you hit a certain standard there is a necessary intensity that you just have to possess in order to take the next step and then the next one. Right now he feels that he does not have it, so instead of pretending he has made a very big (and I think brave) decision to recognise that.

    Pro rugby is now bloody dangerous. The players are too big and the hits too intense. Look at Dan Carter.

    At least you are spared the worry he might emerge from a scrum in a wheelchair.

    Good luck to son and father.
    There needs to be a weight limit. The game is in an arms race on body weight and it's injuring too many players too often.
    Well that's completely unworkable.
  • Music guru Alan McGee has claimed Jimmy Savile sexually harassed his wife at a dinner hosted by Tony Blair.

    The Scottish record label boss was invited to a private dinner with the former prime minister at his country residence Chequers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487217/Jimmy-Savile-harassed-music-boss-wife-Chequers-dinner-party-hosted-Tony-Blair.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    edited November 2013
    Mr. Corporeal, how is a weight limit unworkable? Just weigh them.

    Incidentally, that's the exact opposite problem F1 has. Button, for example, is relatively tall and can't put on any muscle (or fat) on whatsoever because the weight would cost him too much (because the weight limits are too tight, and going to get tighter next year).

    Edited extra bit: fun fact - gladiators were pretty fat. This helped to put on a good show, because fat bleeds a lot and looks dramatic, and it gave them a little bit more margin between a nasty cut and being mortallty wounded.
  • Evening all. First day at work for over two and a half years :)
  • Dr. Prasannan, hope you had a good day. Did they send you for a long stand?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Dr. Prasannan, hope you had a good day. Did they send you for a long stand?

    Or a left handed shovel :)

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Evening all. First day at work for over two and a half years :)

    Did you have to make the tea ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Evening all. First day at work for over two and a half years :)

    Hope it went well, and you enjoyed it.

    Did they send you to the shop to buy a bubble for a spirit level?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Bobajob said:

    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    Charles said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Charles

    I'll get there Charles, eventually. The problem is people on PAYE don't, as a rule keep careful records (or maybe it's just me!)

    @Square Root

    If you don't want to discuss policies or indeed betting, why come on the site?

    It's just you...

    (Phone up your HR department and ask for a copy of your P60 and your P11D if you have one. The first is your annual (tax year) statement of earnings, the second the value of any benefits in kind. Assuming you don't have substantial investments or outside income (which I assume not, as this is your first self-assessment form) those 2 pieces of paper will have virtually all the information you need.
    I'm on it Charles - a bloody hassle though. In time, some government will rationalise it, do it source etc. But I think we are stuck with it for a while!
    I send my tax guy 6 bits of paper a year, he talks to my bank manager, my investment managers and sends me a form to sign... plus a very modest bill
    That bill and time will still cost more than the benefit I get!

    @Phillip
    But that was then, and this is now (as Mike is fond of saying)
    Scrapheap will know better, but have you thought about salary sacrifice in return for childcare vouchers/pension contribution? Would reduce your gross income below the threshold, so you don't have to file a self-assessment form, you get the tax savings, you save for the future and you still get child benefit?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2013

    Mr. Corporeal, how is a weight limit unworkable? Just weigh them.

    Incidentally, that's the exact opposite problem F1 has. Button, for example, is relatively tall and can't put on any muscle (or fat) on whatsoever because the weight would cost him too much (because the weight limits are too tight, and going to get tighter next year).

    Edited extra bit: fun fact - gladiators were pretty fat. This helped to put on a good show, because fat bleeds a lot and looks dramatic, and it gave them a little bit more margin between a nasty cut and being mortallty wounded.

    Speed TV (RIP) last year had a 1 hour feature at Watkins Glen where Tony Stewart and Lewis Hamilton swapped cars with each other. Tony Stewart (5' 9" and about 190lbs) took a minute to get nto the F1 car. Lewis likewise had a spot of bother initially - Nascar vehicles don't have doors and you climb in through the driver's window.

    I can't believe I'm saying this, but F1 could probably learn from Nascar in terms of preventing things like Vettel winning every week and making F1 actually interesting to watch.

    Before you ask - NO - I am not a Nascar fan. It's like leaning over a highway overpass and watching traffic. But then at present, so is F1.

    I don't even dislike either Vettel or Red Bull - the team was started by Jackie Stewart.

    It's like golf 10 years ago when Tiger Woods was winning every major in sight. Now he isn't, watching majors is much more fun. No, I don't dislike Tiger either, although for some reason people keep asking me what's wrong with him.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    edited November 2013
    Mr. B, higher weight limits are a must, but the performance advantage Vettel enjoys now is a combination of the best car on the grid by a mile and being one of the best drivers on the grid. Hopefully regulation changes will help shuffle the pack. If my spies (checking Twitter occasionally) are right then the Renault engine will be the lowest in terms of raw power next year. Efficiency will be critical as well, however.

    Edited extra bit: odds (Ladbrokes) on Vettel winning both the next 2 races is 1.67.

    Anyway, off for the night.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tim_B said:

    No, I don't dislike Tiger either, although for some reason people keep asking me what's wrong with him.

    ...that's because you live in Georgia...
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    No, I don't dislike Tiger either, although for some reason people keep asking me what's wrong with him.

    ...that's because you live in Georgia...
    OK, I'll bite - what does living in the Peach State have to do with it?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    Mr. B, higher weight limits are a must, but the performance advantage Vettel enjoys now is a combination of the best car on the grid by a mile and being one of the best drivers on the grid. Hopefully regulation changes will help shuffle the pack. If my spies (checking Twitter occasionally) are right then the Renault engine will be the lowest in terms of raw power next year. Efficiency will be critical as well, however.

    Handicapping (i.e. success ballast) would solve a great many of F1's problems. Touring cars in the UK use it, most successfully. But it is also against the spirit of F1 (sadly, as are many of the modern day rules such as engine restrictions).
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