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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next generation: the best outside bet for the Tory crown?

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Excellent news. Maybe this will allow others to pitch in?

    Who is Trump's Eugene McCarthy?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Amusingly Betfair lists 15 possible people in the 2020 GOP Nominee market. Donald Trump, 14 others, but not Bill Weld.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I can make out some of that, not all of it. What is the good news about the art work and what is 'trésor?'
    All the works of art have been saved, the cathedrals treasure is intact ... the holy relics.

    There’s one phrase I can’t read
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    edited April 2019
    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
    This is where we miss SeanT. I would have loved his take on God setting fire to his own curtains as payback to Macron for being a **** over Brexit. Or something.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I can make out some of that, not all of it. What is the good news about the art work and what is 'trésor?'
    All the works of art have been saved, the cathedrals treasure is intact ... the holy relics.

    There’s one phrase I can’t read
    'couronne d'epines' is the crown of thorns, which Ted Crilly will confirm is a class 1 relic, and the 'saints sacraments' are the copper saint statues which were taken off the base of the spire on Friday for restoration.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
    This is where we miss SeanT. I would have loved his take on God setting fire to his own curtains as payback to Macron for being a **** over Brexit. Or something.
    Has seanT flounced again? Or is he too busy banging his young hot wife (his claim not mine) to post on PB.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    3 homes bernie...i am sure he used to bang on about how many homes, cars, yachts the mega wealth really needed.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2019
    Whether what she said is valid or not is besides the point (as some people on Twitter were discussing). Newsreaders ought to be neutral, as far as possible, not airing their own views and opinions.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
    This is where we miss SeanT. I would have loved his take on God setting fire to his own curtains as payback to Macron for being a **** over Brexit. Or something.
    Has seanT flounced again? Or is he too busy banging his young hot wife (his claim not mine) to post on PB.
    Here he is:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1117850165962870784
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    AndyJS said:

    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
    This is where we miss SeanT. I would have loved his take on God setting fire to his own curtains as payback to Macron for being a **** over Brexit. Or something.
    Has seanT flounced again? Or is he too busy banging his young hot wife (his claim not mine) to post on PB.
    Here he is:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1117850165962870784
    I actually feel sorry for him, nevada is not a place one should have to visit.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    I can make out some of that, not all of it. What is the good news about the art work and what is 'trésor?'
    All the works of art have been saved, the cathedrals treasure is intact ... the holy relics.

    There’s one phrase I can’t read
    “Crown of thorns”
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    AndyJS said:

    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    A £10 contribution to Macron's new resto fund says the next Martin Rowson or Steve Bell cartoon in the Graun has the PM as Quasimodo and the UK or Brexit as the Cathedral.

    £5 bonus if the cartoon is really shit and not funny like all the others.

    First one to reply is the counterparty.
    This is where we miss SeanT. I would have loved his take on God setting fire to his own curtains as payback to Macron for being a **** over Brexit. Or something.
    Has seanT flounced again? Or is he too busy banging his young hot wife (his claim not mine) to post on PB.
    Here he is:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1117850165962870784
    I actually feel sorry for him, nevada is not a place one should have to visit.
    Agreed. Unfortunately my s-i-l lives in Las Vegas.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    AndyJS said:

    Whether what she said is valid or not is besides the point (as some people on Twitter were discussing). Newsreaders ought to be neutral, as far as possible, not airing their own views and opinions.
    Indeed. Completely lost the plot.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
    The Pope is the head of the sky fairy cult and Notre Dam is a temple to it. And he’s sitting on a city of looted gold.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...
    The Vatican does not need to, it has vast enough assets and wealthy donors as it is many of whom I am sure will chip in for the Notre Dame restoration, the Catholic Church does however provide plenty of foodbanks and homeless shelters for the poor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167

    Excellent news. Maybe this will allow others to pitch in?

    Who is Trump's Eugene McCarthy?
    Nobody, the GOP base is far more enthusiastic about Trump than the Democratic base then was about LBJ in the midst of the Vietnam War
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Biden-Buttigieg

    Two generations. Experience and youthful energy. One term to clear up the Trump mess and an old diplomatic pro rebuilds alliances and then the flame is handed on.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Excellent news. Maybe this will allow others to pitch in?

    Who is Trump's Eugene McCarthy?
    Nobody, the GOP base is far more enthusiastic about Trump than the Democratic base then was about LBJ in the midst of the Vietnam War
    Ah, you are probably right.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    TGOHF said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
    The Pope is the head of the sky fairy cult and Notre Dam is a temple to it. And he’s sitting on a city of looted gold.
    Notre Dame cathedral is owned by the French state.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
    The Pope is the head of the sky fairy cult and Notre Dam is a temple to it. And he’s sitting on a city of looted gold.
    Notre Dame cathedral is owned by the French state.
    Apres moi le feu.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117924310541328385?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    They have to beat Sanders and O'Rourke first, Sanders-O'Rourke is also a likely ticket
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    They have to beat Sanders and O'Rourke first, Sanders-O'Rourke is also a likely ticket
    Then Dems lose. Sanders cannot beat Trump imho.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    TGOHF said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
    The Pope is the head of the sky fairy cult and Notre Dam is a temple to it. And he’s sitting on a city of looted gold.
    Actually it is the Archbishop of Canterbury here. Notre Dame is a historical and architectural gem whether you are religious or not and great effort must be made to properly fund its restoration wherever those funds come from
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117924310541328385?s=20
    Democratic socialism is about creating a government and economy that work for all Americans, not just people like me and my mates.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Sanders 'in the top 1%' tax returns will be an absolute gift to Trump.

    And no it is does not matter that Trump will never release his own tax returns.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,167
    edited April 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    They have to beat Sanders and O'Rourke first, Sanders-O'Rourke is also a likely ticket
    Then Dems lose. Sanders cannot beat Trump imho.
    I think Sanders could scrape past Trump if he wins Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan and holds the Hillary states which is by no means impossible (Sanders leads a number of polls against Trump now), remember many of us here thought Corbyn had no chance either.


    Sanders has a better chance of winning the rustbelt v Trump than say Harris or Warren in my view (though Biden remains their best bet) and Buttigieg needs to show his message is not just Hillary 2.0 with a bit more slick presentation
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    RoyalBlue said:


    It is the same in Spanish, Portuguese and Persian. I think in Russian also but you’ll have to check with @Dura_Ace

    In most cases, except formal settings, Russians say or write Англия (Angliya) to refer to the UK when it literally means England.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    They have to beat Sanders and O'Rourke first, Sanders-O'Rourke is also a likely ticket
    Then Dems lose. Sanders cannot beat Trump imho.
    I think Sanders could scrape past Trump if he wins Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan and holds the Hillary states which is by no means impossible (Sanders leads a number of polls against Trump now), remember many of us here thought Corbyn had no chance either.


    Sanders has a better chance of winning the rustbelt v Trump than say Harris or Warren in my view (though Biden remains their best bet) and Buttigieg needs to show his message is not just Hillary 2.0 with a bit more slick presentation
    Indeed so. Many judged that Trump was unelectable - and Ronald Reagan before him.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    What am I missing, what is he saying here?
    I think he's hinting he expects negligence by the contractors to be the root cause.

    Certainly I would not want to be in their shoes right now, whether they were negligent or not.
    Tommy Robinson will probably pop up blaming a Muslim chippy with a carelessly discarded Gauloises!
    The Sun's probably already blaming asylum seekers. Meanwhile the Express is likely blaming the restless spirit of Diana.
    Who will Alex Jones blame?
    There was no fire. The whole thing is a complete hoax. I've been to Paris, and there's no "Notre Dame" there. Everyone knows Notre Dame is in Indiana, not Texas. WAKE UP SHEEPLE, don't be manipulated by the lying media.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    kyf_100 said:

    Sean_F said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sean_F said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Dont get me wrong, I'm not glorifying in the destruction, I just have a different perspective as to the significance of the building.

    The problem is that you're very selective. If you want to see something that has really damaged the environment (and continues to do so), don't focus on cathedrals, but on the computer you are using and the infrastructure it uses to connect to the Internet.

    By all rights you shouldn't use computers or be on the Internet. The mining alone for rare earths is rather polluting and in some cases causes political and environmental issues, and the servers you use on t'Internet use loads of juice, however much Google et al try to use renewables.
    Oh, I agree; just about every facet of modern life has adverse effects on our planet. I can only see that ending with the extinction of our species.
    This sounds right up your street:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

    They might not accept parents though. Having children in developed countries dwarfs the environmental impact of any other conceivable lifestyle change.
    They sound like a barrel of laughs.
    They're not wrong though. The biological imperative to reproduce is entirely at odds with all the evidence that mankind is reproducing in an unsustainable way and the best thing we can do to reduce our impact on the environment is to not reproduce. But good luck beating a billion years of evolutionary biology.

    I often wonder what we consider to be socially acceptable, nay moral, in 2019 will be considered as repugnant as smoking, slavery, or putting up a statue to the likes of Colston or Rhodes in 2119. Perhaps the idea that reproduction is a good thing and a natural right will be one of them.its really no less against nature than many of the biological facts sjws want us to ignore today.
    They are wrong. In most countries, birthrates are at, or below, replacement level. Life is mostly enjoyable. Why would one wish to deny it to future generations?
    Wrong. Population globally is predicted to rise from about 7bn now to 11bn by 2100. I'm not trying to argue the case myself, I think it's a biological imperative to want to reproduce. I'm merely asking whether the people of the 22nd century will thank us for it.
    Can I suggest you watch this excellent documentary:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
    Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong.

    Humankind is quite good at identifying environmental issues and dealing with them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,135
    kyf_100 said:

    Wrong. Population globally is predicted to rise from about 7bn now to 11bn by 2100. I'm not trying to argue the case myself, I think it's a biological imperative to want to reproduce. I'm merely asking whether the people of the 22nd century will thank us for it.

    Given that the people of the 22nd century will be the children and grandchildren of those 11bn in 2100, I'm certain that they will thank us for it. Because otherwise they'd never have been born.

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
    Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong.

    Humankind is quite good at identifying environmental issues and dealing with them.
    Silent Spring came out in September 1962
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Tim_B said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
    Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong.

    Humankind is quite good at identifying environmental issues and dealing with them.
    Silent Spring came out in September 1962
    Oops.

    60 years ago.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    What am I missing, what is he saying here?
    I think he's hinting he expects negligence by the contractors to be the root cause.

    Certainly I would not want to be in their shoes right now, whether they were negligent or not.
    Tommy Robinson will probably pop up blaming a Muslim chippy with a carelessly discarded Gauloises!
    The Sun's probably already blaming asylum seekers. Meanwhile the Express is likely blaming the restless spirit of Diana.
    Who will Alex Jones blame?
    There was no fire. The whole thing is a complete hoax. I've been to Paris, and there's no "Notre Dame" there. Everyone knows Notre Dame is in Indiana, not Texas. WAKE UP SHEEPLE, don't be manipulated by the lying media.
    Firemen saved Touchdown Jesus from the flames.........
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117924310541328385?s=20
    Democratic socialism is about creating a government and economy that work for all Americans, not just people like me and my mates.
    Yeah, imagine somebody supporting a political position that's not in their own self-interest.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    HYUFD said:

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117924310541328385?s=20
    Democratic socialism is about creating a government and economy that work for all Americans, not just people like me and my mates.
    Yeah, imagine somebody supporting a political position that's not in their own self-interest.
    To be fair, supporting that political position has been pretty good for Bernie's own self interest.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If anyone wants to have a look at Pete Buttigieg (under some very friendly questioning), watch this video of him talking about coming out:

    https://twitter.com/mollyjongfast/status/1117981380258955264?s=21
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247

    HYUFD said:

    Bernie finds himself one of the 1% that the occupy movement protested about. Unfortunate.

    "WASHINGTON — Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont disclosed 10 years of tax returns on Monday, providing a more detailed look at his finances than he offered when he ran for president in 2016.

    The returns show that Mr. Sanders’s earnings shot up after his last presidential bid, when he built up a vast national following. His income topped $1 million in 2016 and 2017 as proceeds from books drove up his earnings."

    NY Times

    https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1117924310541328385?s=20
    Democratic socialism is about creating a government and economy that work for all Americans, not just people like me and my mates.
    Yeah, imagine somebody supporting a political position that's not in their own self-interest.
    Brexit.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,716
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I am a rather puritanical Christian, so prefer a far simpler architectural and litergical style, but am very saddened to see such loss of artistic and cultural heritage. It is part of all our history, not just the French.

    I love medieval architecture, and especially Gothic. What I can't stand is the gilding and paint of Catholic churches - Pugin's interior's make me feel sick. It's almost as though they distract from the beauty of the medieval stoneworkers' and carvers' craft.

    Having said that, many small churches were ruined by Victorian improvements.
    I think that British churches were also very gilded and painted until the Puritans whitewashed over them and removed the idolatrous statuary.
    Absolutely. And sometimes - often in small churches out of the way - you can find places where the pictures have been uncovered from beneath whitewash. e.g.:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Botolph's_Church,_Hardham#/media/File:Hardham_church,_interior.jpg

    But all I can say is that the gilding isn't really my thing: the architecture is.
    It is not my thing either. But if you want to see the most over the top gilding ever, go to the Hermitage in Leningrad. You'll need sunglasses indoors.
    St Mary’s Undercroft in Westminster is special too.

    An Edwardian copy of Byzantium, restored with extra gilding by the Victorians
    The Victorians ruined many buildings with their 'improvements'. (On the other hand, the buildings might not be there but for the structural work).

    IMO (and this will be controversial), aside from Westminster Hall, Pugin's interior of Parliament is far too over the top. Barry's exterior and the general structure is fantastic. Yet it is the latter that i causing trouble now, and has since the building was opened. Barry was rather careless with his choice of stone ...

    https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/palace/architecture/palacestructure/the-stonework/

    That's the great thing about architecture: people can dislike something another person likes, and we can both be right!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says she's cutting back on social media for benefit of her health

    New York congresswoman says she has given up Facebook"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/aoc-twitter-facebook-instagram-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-health-a8871751.html
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    Warren is the value bet at the moment. She's a front tier candidate that is available at 26/1. She's driving the democratic debate in terms of ideas.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    rkrkrk said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    Warren is the value bet at the moment. She's a front tier candidate that is available at 26/1. She's driving the democratic debate in terms of ideas.
    Except the Democrats want above all else to win, and fairly or unfairly, she is perceived as a weak candidate for the general election, despite her other qualities.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...

    That story is ridiculous and implausible.

    It suggests 80% of teachers will not be leaving the profession within the next two years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    edited April 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...

    That story is ridiculous and implausible.

    It suggests 80% of teachers will not be leaving the profession within the next two years.
    Probably want to - some can’t afford to leave.

    As the five year figures suggest.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    HYUFD said:
    It looks as though aside from the place where the spire collapsed the vaulting has held. That also means the interior is damaged, but not gutted as some earlier reports claimed. In particular at this moment the main stained glass windows seem to have survived, while the organ still seems intact although the heat alone will have caused a lot of damage.

    But, of course, the vaulted ceiling itself will have taken a severe beating from the heat, the melted lead and the water. The fact it is still standing now doesn't mean it will survive the first major gale.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,716
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...

    That story is ridiculous and implausible.

    It suggests 80% of teachers will not be leaving the profession within the next two years.
    Not meaning to be cynical, but haven't we heard stories like this several times over the last couple of decades?

    In addition, what is the natural churn rate of teachers?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...

    That story is ridiculous and implausible.

    It suggests 80% of teachers will not be leaving the profession within the next two years.
    Not meaning to be cynical, but haven't we heard stories like this several times over the last couple of decades?

    In addition, what is the natural churn rate of teachers?
    Possibly, but the workload is if a different measure than ten years ago, much of it unproductive.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
    Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong.

    Humankind is quite good at identifying environmental issues and dealing with them.
    The only thing we are good at is creating the environmental problems in the first place. We are destroying our planet and all its other residents.

    But don't worry folks, fit LED lights, use a reusable coffee cup and buy a Prius and everything will be sorted.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    edited April 2019
    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    Warren is the value bet at the moment. She's a front tier candidate that is available at 26/1. She's driving the democratic debate in terms of ideas.
    Except the Democrats want above all else to win, and fairly or unfairly, she is perceived as a weak candidate for the general election, despite her other qualities.
    Let's see. There is plenty of time for her to correct that perception.

    Personally I think she would be a strong candidate, she is leftist enough to unite the party, but her core issues will resonate with independents. I do wonder whether the Dems will end up with a contested convention, their changes to the voting system seem to have made it much more likely.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Good morning, everyone.

    Sad to see Notre Dame on fire. Hopefully it can be fully restored, and I know at least some statues had been removed shortly beforehand on safety grounds.

    There was a spate of fires over here (nowhere so iconic, of course) maybe a year ago, with renovation being a theme there (including a night club in Leeds).
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    TGOHF said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    I very much hope the government will pledge funds towards this project.
    Why? It's terrible, but France is rich enough to rebuild this.
    As is the Vatican. Still robbing the poor to pay for gilded palaces is the Catholic Church’s second favourite activity...

    What has the Vatican to do with this?
    Well, perhaps the pope understands the parable of the Good Samaritan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Quincel said:

    Buttigieg now 3rd fav for dem nominee.

    I am laying off a little.

    His odds are crazy. He's impressive but we're a long way out, his polling rise hasn't lasted long enough for us to know if he has staying power, his fundraising is good but not top tier, and he's a 37 year old Mayor for crying out loud! In the post-2016 era we shouldn't write him off, but he's a second tier candidate as it stands, not a front-runner.
    I punted him some time ago on here, after seeing some tweets from Axelrod. I'm surprised though how fast he has exploded.

    Biden-Buttigieg has a ring though.
    Warren is the value bet at the moment. She's a front tier candidate that is available at 26/1. She's driving the democratic debate in terms of ideas.
    Except the Democrats want above all else to win, and fairly or unfairly, she is perceived as a weak candidate for the general election, despite her other qualities.
    Let's see. There is plenty of time for her to correct that perception.

    Personally I think she would be a strong candidate, she is leftist enough to unite the party, but her core issues will resonate with independents. I do wonder whether the Dems will end up with a contested convention, their changes to the voting system seem to have made it much more likely.
    Perceptions can change, but given she was the first candidate to declare, it will be an uphill struggle. The debates will be interesting.
    A contested convention would be fun, if not for the Democrats.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    No doubt this too will be dismissed as just teachers moaning...

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/16/fifth-of-teachers-plan-to-leave-profession-within-two-years
    Around one in five teachers (18%) expect to leave the classroom in less than two years while two-fifths of teachers, school leaders and support staff want to quit in the next five years – blaming “out of control” workload pressures and “excessive” accountability, according to a poll by the country’s biggest teaching union...

    That story is ridiculous and implausible.

    It suggests 80% of teachers will not be leaving the profession within the next two years.
    Not meaning to be cynical, but haven't we heard stories like this several times over the last couple of decades?

    In addition, what is the natural churn rate of teachers?
    I think this article answers the majority of your questions, although it's a couple of years out of date:

    https://schoolsweek.co.uk/teachers-leaving-faster-than-ever-and-10-other-school-workforce-findings/
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    On population and its environmental impact: it isn't inevitable for economic growth to be environmentally destructive. Indeed in many ways the British environment in terms of pollution and wildlife is often better than 50 years ago. It very much depends on how we live our lives. Bitcoin mining seems an extraordinary waste of energy for example, but other internet businesses can be much less polluting than what has gone before.

    The Uninhabitable Earth by David Wallace-Wells is devastating. I'm 1/2 through and boy our future looks very very bleak.
    Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong.

    Humankind is quite good at identifying environmental issues and dealing with them.
    The only thing we are good at is creating the environmental problems in the first place. We are destroying our planet and all its other residents.

    But don't worry folks, fit LED lights, use a reusable coffee cup and buy a Prius and everything will be sorted.
    We are not destroying the planet whet hyperbole.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Good morning, everyone.

    Sad to see Notre Dame on fire. Hopefully it can be fully restored, and I know at least some statues had been removed shortly beforehand on safety grounds.

    There was a spate of fires over here (nowhere so iconic, of course) maybe a year ago, with renovation being a theme there (including a night club in Leeds).

    You wonder if somebody was a bit careless with a grinder of some description in this case.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    edited April 2019

    Good morning, everyone.

    Sad to see Notre Dame on fire. Hopefully it can be fully restored, and I know at least some statues had been removed shortly beforehand on safety grounds.

    There was a spate of fires over here (nowhere so iconic, of course) maybe a year ago, with renovation being a theme there (including a night club in Leeds).

    Hopefully just a bit of dodgy workmanship. Let's hope that ISIS don't claim it as something they had a hand in. They will have seen the reaction around the world - it now has to make our other great cathedrals a significantly upgraded target, in their warped minds.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    I half-thought to myself last night who’d be the first to try and link this to Brexit. Of course, I knew the answer: The Guardian.

    It’s pretty obvious why they do this. It drives sales of copy for them; the consequential furore will give them plenty of profile and coverage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    It looks as though aside from the place where the spire collapsed the vaulting has held. That also means the interior is damaged, but not gutted as some earlier reports claimed. In particular at this moment the main stained glass windows seem to have survived, while the organ still seems intact although the heat alone will have caused a lot of damage.

    But, of course, the vaulted ceiling itself will have taken a severe beating from the heat, the melted lead and the water. The fact it is still standing now doesn't mean it will survive the first major gale.
    If true, that’s good news.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,716

    TGOHF said:

    Guardian writer caught making up fake news..

    https://twitter.com/kav_kaushik/status/1117908336840564736?s=21

    I half-thought to myself last night who’d be the first to try and link this to Brexit. Of course, I knew the answer: The Guardian.

    It’s pretty obvious why they do this. It drives sales of copy for them; the consequential furore will give them plenty of profile and coverage.
    To be fair, that's a standard MO for all newspapers: they want to get their readership riled up, ad they know their audience well. It's not as though the Telegraph is immune to that sort of thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,483

    Good morning, everyone.

    Sad to see Notre Dame on fire. Hopefully it can be fully restored, and I know at least some statues had been removed shortly beforehand on safety grounds.

    There was a spate of fires over here (nowhere so iconic, of course) maybe a year ago, with renovation being a theme there (including a night club in Leeds).

    Hopefully just a bit of dodgy workmanship. Let's hope that ISIS don't claim it as something they had a hand in. They will have seen the reaction around the world - it now has to make our other great cathedrals a significantly upgraded target, in their warped minds.
    While ISIS destroyed other religion's buildings and artefacts. Mary (Notre Dame) is the equivalent of a saint in classical Islam, being the mother of a major prophet, the last before the Great Man himself.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,716

    Good morning, everyone.

    Sad to see Notre Dame on fire. Hopefully it can be fully restored, and I know at least some statues had been removed shortly beforehand on safety grounds.

    There was a spate of fires over here (nowhere so iconic, of course) maybe a year ago, with renovation being a theme there (including a night club in Leeds).

    I have a little personal experience of this (apols if I've said thid before). A couple of decades ago i was working on a site cutting away redundant pipework from a culvert using oxy-propane. Nearby there was an access bridge over the culvert that sat on wooden bearer timbers - large slabs of wood. After many decades of use, these were rather rotten.

    we were very careful of sparks and flames, and a site safety rep did a survey of the work each day (from memory, after close of play each day).

    One morning, we came back to find one of the timbers merrily smoking away. It had been smouldering all night. it taught me you have too be really, really careful with sparks in such an environment.

    Fortunately that bridge was also due to go. ;)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    On topic, nice article. 25/1 for someone I've never really heard of doesn't tempt me much. Javid at 16/1 definitely looks value. Even if there's only a 50% chance of him running, he is in one of the top jobs and would immediately be a credible candidate.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr 1000,


    "Silent Spring was written almost fifty years ago. It was persuasive, and scary, and almost completely wrong."

    I think it might have been the Times that published an article warning about an environmental disaster about to happen. This was in 1894 and the world's cities were being buried in horse dung. No laughing matter because of the associated risk of deadly diseases.

    But motor cars and antibiotics saved us from the apocalypse. We didn't need middle-class tw*ts competing in the virtue-signalling Olympics..
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2019/04/first-successful-model-simulation-of-the-past-3-million-years-of-climate-change/

    "Our results imply a strong sensitivity of the Earth system to relatively small variations in atmospheric CO2."
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    This thread is done.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited April 2019

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    It looks as though aside from the place where the spire collapsed the vaulting has held. That also means the interior is damaged, but not gutted as some earlier reports claimed. In particular at this moment the main stained glass windows seem to have survived, while the organ still seems intact although the heat alone will have caused a lot of damage.

    But, of course, the vaulted ceiling itself will have taken a severe beating from the heat, the melted lead and the water. The fact it is still standing now doesn't mean it will survive the first major gale.
    If true, that’s good news.
    Some photos here:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-engulfed-by-fire-roof-collapses/11018158

    Also here:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/notre-dame-cathedral-interior-1/11018676

    Edit - this brings the key photos into one site:
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/photos-inside-notre-dame-reveal-extent-of-damage-from-fire-1.4381404
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    New Thread

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,716
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    It looks as though aside from the place where the spire collapsed the vaulting has held. That also means the interior is damaged, but not gutted as some earlier reports claimed. In particular at this moment the main stained glass windows seem to have survived, while the organ still seems intact although the heat alone will have caused a lot of damage.

    But, of course, the vaulted ceiling itself will have taken a severe beating from the heat, the melted lead and the water. The fact it is still standing now doesn't mean it will survive the first major gale.
    If true, that’s good news.
    Some photos here:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/notre-dame-cathedral-paris-engulfed-by-fire-roof-collapses/11018158

    Also here:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/notre-dame-cathedral-interior-1/11018676

    Edit - this brings the key photos into one site:
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/photos-inside-notre-dame-reveal-extent-of-damage-from-fire-1.4381404
    Thank goodness that doesn't appear as bad as I feared for the general structure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    I'm actually visiting the palace today. Not sure it will be there in 10 years when they plan to decant.
  • po8crgpo8crg Posts: 27
    "Historically, only those occupying the other three great Offices of State (Chancellor, Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary) have ascended directly to Prime Minister"

    Going through PMs whose job immediately before becoming PM was not Leader of the Opposition, here are their previous offices, if anyone wants to use this to mark some cards:

    Theresa May: Home Secretary
    Gordon Brown: Chancellor
    John Major: Chancellor
    James Callaghan: Foreign Secretary
    Alex Douglas-Home: Foreign Secretary
    Harold Macmillan: Chancellor
    Anthony Eden: Foreign Secretary
    Winston Churchill: First Lord of the Admiralty (though he had previously been Chancellor)
    Neville Chamberlain: Chancellor
    Stanley Baldwin: Chancellor (first time. LOTO the second time, and Lord President of the Council the third time)
    Arthur Bonar Law: Government backbencher (had previously been Chancellor)
    David Lloyd George: Secretary of State for War (had previously been Chancellor)
    HH Asquith: Chancellor
    Arthur Balfour: Leader of the House of Commons and First Lord of the Treasury (the last PM never to have served in one of the three great offices, nor as LOTO - he was Foreign Secretary after being PM)
    Benjamin Disraeli: Chancellor
    [I have excluded Russell because he was in opposition before his first term; he was Foreign Secretary before his second]
    Palmerston: Home Secretary
    Melbourne: Home Secretary
    Wellington: Commander-in-Chief of the Army (the only PM neither to have served in Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet before becoming PM)
    Goderich: Secretary for War and the Colonies (had previously been Chancellor)
    Canning: Foreign Secretary
    Liverpool: Secretary of State for War and the Colonies (had previously been both Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary)
    Perceval: Chancellor

    That's back to the turn of the nineteenth century. Parties in the eighteenth century were so factional that a new PM would often have been out of office even if nominally of the same party as the outgoing PM (and thus not LOTO either).

    The vast majority were holding one of the great offices, and most of the exceptions were holding one of the service ministries (War, ie the Army, or the Admiralty) during WWI, WWII or the Napoleonic Wars. The remaining exceptions are:
    Bonar Law: had been Chancellor only a year before and had only quit due to ill-health; his health recovered to allow him to return to high office at the right moment.
    Balfour: had been effectively deputy PM as First Lord of the Treasury, and was the principal representative of the government in the Commons (Leader of the Commons when the PM is in the Lords is the senior government frontbencher)
    Duke of Wellington: war hero to an extent we haven't had since.
    Goderich: had been Chancellor only months before and only didn't hold a higher office because the PM hadn't done a proper reshuffle when Goderich was elevated into the Lords.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    @po8crg, that's a fantastic rundown, thank you.
This discussion has been closed.