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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039
    Just thinking - could we end up in a situation where we pull out of the EU elections after postal votes have already been cast?
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Artist said:

    I think TIGs would find it easy to abstain. "We don't have confidence in the government, but we don't have confidence in Corbyn as an alternative either". How could anyone argue with that?

    Because under the FTPA once the government is no confidrnced any new government must pass a vote of confidence or there's an election so thrh would need to vote no confidence in both for that position to hold. They are hoping to get to conference season after which they should have a platform and structure to fight from
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    Sean_F said:


    The votes I would see as more less certain for a VONC would be:-

    Labour 246,
    Lib Dem 11,
    SNP 35,
    Plaid 4,
    Green 1.

    That's 296, once you deduct the two Deputy Speakers.

    There are 313 Conservatives and 10 DUP, making 322 against if you knock off 1 Deputy Speaker.

    If the DUP switch, that's 306 to 312.

    That leaves 11 TIG, 1 Independent Conservative, 1 Independent Unionist, 1 Independent Lib Dem, and 8 Independents, holding the balance of power.

    If the DUP back a VONC, I think that Lady Hermon, Ivan Lewis, and Tony Woodcock would vote with the government, making 315 the target to beat.

    Don't let Foxy get wind of the Forest footballer retaining T. May in power :)
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    On topic, labours share has to be considered in light of Lammy and the ongoing anti semite issues. Their lead is as solid as a twix bar in this climate
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    tlg86 said:

    Question regarding the EU elections. What's the point of no return for our participation in them? If the WA was passed before 23 May would the elections just not happen?

    In practice I think we're already past the point of no return because ratification also requires the legislation to pass. The EU parliament term ends on the 18th so there's no time for them to vote on the WA either.
    Surely Parliament would be recalled if an agreement was reached between May and Corbyn? Alternative thought: If an agreement was reached but the legislation would take too long (such that we'd be in the EU for mere days after the election) would the EU waive the requirement for us to hold elections, or could the UK unilaterally suspend them and simply appoint MEPs for those days?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited April 2019

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.
    This parliament is not particularly likely to deliver brexit (without a referendum). So calling a general election does not decrease the chance of brexit, I think it is just as likely to increase it. How all this would be perceived, who knows.
    I agree, and generally think the likely impact of a GE on Brexit is completely wrong. At the moment there is no majority in Parliament for any specific form of Brexit (or revoking A50), but that's only possible because at GE17 parties had vague Brexit policies in their manifestos. If we haven't left by the next election it's likely Lab/Con will both have a pretty specific deal in their manifestos, so if either wins a majority the Brexit blockage will end.

    Being a Tory and voting against the WA is justifiable if you argue your mandate from GE17 is for a better deal than that, or being Labour and voting against Customs Union. But it's pretty hard to justify if the manifesto and the bill you're voting on match up precisely.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited April 2019
    Corbyn calling Begum a British citizen will win millions of votes. Oh, wait......
    Hes really not very astute. Assange and Begum.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    According to Google Translate Thai distinguishes them.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    Ideally the latter but if there were a vote of no confidence against the current administration they would need to follow the logic of their position. In practice 2 weeks would be ample time to establish whether it would be possible to put together a government of national unity. What would Tom Watson's faction do in those circumstances? That would seem to me to be the central question.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    Aside from the EU positioning it's what Owen's SDP where angling at.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Corbyn calling Begum a British citizen will win millions of votes. Oh, wait......
    Hes really not very astute. Assange and Begum.

    Is there a terrorist he doesn't support?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    They probably want to get to late 2019 then they'll have the infrastructure and policy platform and be ready to rock. Plus they'd no doubt like a few councillors from by elections etc so as to start a presence
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, Pete Buttigieg is now third favourite for the Democrat nomination and is gaining on Kamala Harris.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    It will be interesting to see who they align with in the European Parliament (if they get anyone elected). EPP?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Meanwhile, Pete Buttigieg is now third favourite for the Democrat nomination and is gaining on Kamala Harris.

    It is since I posted here that he sounds like Gordon Brown. Whether it is because ...
  • Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    Do the Tiggers actually have any members yet or activists?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    Well TIG badly needs to develop into something. My MP is one of the Labour defectors but so far there seems to be no presence on the ground, I am not aware of any councillors or prominent figures in the Party locally who have gone with him and no attempt has been made to set up a local branch or party structure of any kind.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    Do the Tiggers actually have any members yet or activists?
    Local activist groups are set up on Facebook and have begun meeting etc
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    It sounds like John Stevens' Pro-Euro Conservative Party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    It will be interesting to see who they align with in the European Parliament (if they get anyone elected). EPP?
    EPP or ALDE I think.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2019

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    "Igirisu" is just another Japanese corruption of a foreign word meaning "[the] English". Note the Kanji used means Kingdom of the English.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    It sounds like John Stevens' Pro-Euro Conservative Party.
    Except they were up against a Conservative party saying it was inconceivable to leave the EU, not one where half the cabinet want a no deal Brexit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    I suppose the question is how many times can Hunt return to Japan before the leadership election? It's great social media every time he does :p

    But the biggie for him, what I bet he is working on furiously, is surely springing Nazanin Zaghari-Rathcliffe. If he can do that, and be there at Heathrow to welcome her back, live on the main news, he will get a massive boost, even though 'Nazanin' sounds (and the woman herself looks) a bit Muslimy from the perspective of some of the party membership.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Corbyn calling Begum a British citizen will win millions of votes. Oh, wait......
    Hes really not very astute. Assange and Begum.

    Is there a terrorist he doesn't support?
    I doubt Renamo were popular.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    Corbyn calling Begum a British citizen will win millions of votes. Oh, wait......
    Hes really not very astute. Assange and Begum.

    Is there a terrorist he doesn't support?
    Thomas Mair.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,581
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    It sounds like John Stevens' Pro-Euro Conservative Party.
    It is not easy to form a new party successfully. It is particularly difficult to attract a mass membership of moderates, since in our culture 'moderate' means, among other things, being the sort of person who does not organise politically. I think the last moderate to have much success in membership building, at least in England, was a chap called T. Blair. I remember all sorts of decent people joining Labour at the time. Whayever happened to him? Anyone know how that project turned out? And what, I wonder, happened to the keen moderate membership?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited April 2019

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    The Tiggers would be trapped - particularly as the LibDems are now likely to find an early election quite an appealing prospect given the shift in the polls.

    The LibDems might not be reliable either. They might want to change leader first. Each party will be trying to optimise the timing for themselves.
    The serious prospect of recouping half their 2015 losses to the Tories would be difficult to resist.
    There are 22 Tory gains from the LDs in 2015 that are still Tory. Here's the list of majorities under 4,000:

    St Ives 312
    Cheltenham 2569
    You have omitted Richmond Park , but on the basis of current polls the LDs would be hopeful of recovering Devon North, Cheadle,Lewes, St Albans, Wells, Hazel Grove, Winchester & Cornwall North. Gains from Labour, Plaid and SNP would be possible in Sheffield Hallam, Ceredigion and Fife NE respectively.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    The Tiggers would be trapped - particularly as the LibDems are now likely to find an early election quite an appealing prospect given the shift in the polls.

    The LibDems might not be reliable either. They might want to change leader first. Each party will be trying to optimise the timing for themselves.
    The serious prospect of recouping half their 2015 losses to the Tories would be difficult to resist.
    There are 22 Tory gains from the LDs in 2015 that are still Tory. Here's the list of majorities under 4,000:

    St Ives 312
    Cheltenham 2569
    You have omitted Richmond Park , but on the basis of current polls the LDs would be hopeful of recovering Devon North, Cheadle,Lewes, St Albans, Wells, Hazel Grove, Winchester & Cornwall North. Gains from Labour, Plaid and SNP would be possible in Sheffield Hallam, Ceredigion and Fife NE respectively.
    The Lib Dems are eternally hopeful. In recent years I have not lost money betting on them underperforming expectations.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    Well TIG badly needs to develop into something. My MP is one of the Labour defectors but so far there seems to be no presence on the ground, I am not aware of any councillors or prominent figures in the Party locally who have gone with him and no attempt has been made to set up a local branch or party structure of any kind.

    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Sean_F said:


    The votes I would see as more less certain for a VONC would be:-

    Labour 246,
    Lib Dem 11,
    SNP 35,
    Plaid 4,
    Green 1.

    That's 296, once you deduct the two Deputy Speakers.

    There are 313 Conservatives and 10 DUP, making 322 against if you knock off 1 Deputy Speaker.

    If the DUP switch, that's 306 to 312.

    That leaves 11 TIG, 1 Independent Conservative, 1 Independent Unionist, 1 Independent Lib Dem, and 8 Independents, holding the balance of power.

    If the DUP back a VONC, I think that Lady Hermon, Ivan Lewis, and Tony Woodcock would vote with the government, making 315 the target to beat.

    It would be rather entertaining if it was a tie, as I think in that case Bercow would have to cast his vote for the government.
    Frank Field, Kelvin Hopkins and Jared O'mara would probably vote with Labour.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Meanwhile, in the UK Government being incompetent *and* the EU being wretched news:
    https://twitter.com/MarietjeSchaake/status/1117752742011916289
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    Do the Tiggers actually have any members yet or activists?
    They have an email list of 'supporters' and a list of people who have donated, and some councillors have defected to them. Their first party conference is planned for autumn 2019 to elect a permanent leader, so presumably the plan is to recruit formal members and activists over the summer, with the Euro Elections as a springboard (they'd be pretty unlucky not to win any MEPs).
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    The Tiggers would be trapped - particularly as the LibDems are now likely to find an early election quite an appealing prospect given the shift in the polls.

    The LibDems might not be reliable either. They might want to change leader first. Each party will be trying to optimise the timing for themselves.
    The serious prospect of recouping half their 2015 losses to the Tories would be difficult to resist.
    There are 22 Tory gains from the LDs in 2015 that are still Tory. Here's the list of majorities under 4,000:

    St Ives 312
    Cheltenham 2569
    You have omitted Richmond Park , but on the basis of current polls the LDs would be hopeful of recovering Devon North, Cheadle,Lewes, St Albans, Wells, Hazel Grove, Winchester & Cornwall North. Gains from Labour, Plaid and SNP would be possible in Sheffield Hallam, Ceredigion and Fife NE respectively.
    The Lib Dems are eternally hopeful. In recent years I have not lost money betting on them underperforming expectations.
    I understand that , but conditions have suddenly become more attractive for them than at any time since 2010.With the exception of St Albans - where Labour might also be competitive - all those seats were LibDem held until 2015.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Artist said:

    I think TIGs would find it easy to abstain. "We don't have confidence in the government, but we don't have confidence in Corbyn as an alternative either". How could anyone argue with that?

    On the basis that the TIGs could vote against both!
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    The Tiggers would be trapped - particularly as the LibDems are now likely to find an early election quite an appealing prospect given the shift in the polls.

    The LibDems might not be reliable either. They might want to change leader first. Each party will be trying to optimise the timing for themselves.
    The serious prospect of recouping half their 2015 losses to the Tories would be difficult to resist.
    There are 22 Tory gains from the LDs in 2015 that are still Tory. Here's the list of majorities under 4,000:

    St Ives 312
    Cheltenham 2569
    You have omitted Richmond Park , but on the basis of current polls the LDs would be hopeful of recovering Devon North, Cheadle,Lewes, St Albans, Wells, Hazel Grove, Winchester & Cornwall North. Gains from Labour, Plaid and SNP would be possible in Sheffield Hallam, Ceredigion and Fife NE.
    Richmond Park got filtered out by my spreadsheet search: it is an edge case and depends on how you treat by-elections. The Tories gained it in 2010, then "re-gained" it in 2015 after the by-election shenanigans. Clearly that's a decent target!

    Of your list, Cheadle and Lewes are quite plausible, being Remain seats needing a 5% swing or thereabouts. Devon North is closer in majority terms but a 57% Leave seat. St Albans [62% Remain] is certainly a possibility but that would be a first-time gain. The other Tory gains all look a stretch, based on a mixture of majority and leaviness.

    Things could change if the LDs can start squeezing the Labour vote down again, but there's a far more distance between the two parties now than there was in the heyday of tactical voting.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,871

    Meanwhile, in the UK Government being incompetent *and* the EU being wretched news:
    https://twitter.com/MarietjeSchaake/status/1117752742011916289

    In fairness has the government not taken the line of not looking to rock the boat on the basis that we are leaving anyway?

    Of course, if we don't....but then we will have other things to worry about.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    kinabalu said:

    I suppose the question is how many times can Hunt return to Japan before the leadership election? It's great social media every time he does :p

    But the biggie for him, what I bet he is working on furiously, is surely springing Nazanin Zaghari-Rathcliffe. If he can do that, and be there at Heathrow to welcome her back, live on the main news, he will get a massive boost, even though 'Nazanin' sounds (and the woman herself looks) a bit Muslimy from the perspective of some of the party membership.
    Aren't the Iranians still digesting Boris' 'apology and withdrawal"? I suspect that statement still causes suspicion in some at least Iranian minds.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Tell me the Dems are really going to put Sanders up against Trump.

    Jeez...

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    That poll may show why Biden has to run. To stop Bernie being the nominee and four more years of Trump.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    The real reason Boeing's new plane crashed twice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY

    Was it dragons?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Tell me the Dems are really going to put Sanders up against Trump.

    Jeez...

    If you like, I can tell you the primaries have not actually started yet.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    justin124 said:



    Whilst I applaud the balanced and totally objective opening sentence of your comment, I am far from convinced that being seen as Tory allies represents a credible way forward for a supposedly centrist group - particularly in the context of a Government already abandoned by the DUP.

    Quite. Stopping Brexit is fundamental for the Tiggers. And so sustaining a Tory Government trying to deliver Brexit would be fatal for them - their supporter base, such as it is, would never forgive them.

    As I said on the previous post, TIG looks like it could well develop into the kind of Conservative party that Cameron and Osborne were hoping to create. All the signs are that it is attracting a growing number of non-nationalist, mainstream Tories who rather liked the 2010-2015 coalition. As the Tories hurtle rightwards, my guess is that it will turn out to be much more for the likes of Richard Nabavi and TSE than for people like me.

    Well TIG badly needs to develop into something. My MP is one of the Labour defectors but so far there seems to be no presence on the ground, I am not aware of any councillors or prominent figures in the Party locally who have gone with him and no attempt has been made to set up a local branch or party structure of any kind.

    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    Yes, Watson appears to have steadied the moderate Labour ship for the time being and as long as Labour does nothing that might suggest it was going to abandon its commitment to a second referendum I don't see any more defections from them in the immediate future. But the Tories are clearly more fragile - a leadership contest won by Johnson or Raab would certainly push some of them in TIG's direction. If, on the other hand, May remains in place and Brexit continues to founder it's not impossible to see the ERG ultras and a lot of the Tory grassroots peeling off to the Farage party which would leave the Tory moderates left to join forces with the Tiggers.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2019
    Dems seem to have a problem supporting female and ethnic minority candidates....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Dems seem to have a problem supporting female and ethnic minority candidates....

    Such as Obama!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. L, I've read that some MEPs who voted for the deal were misled by claims about changes to the proposal, and they recanted their support but the vote stood. If that's accurate, it would certainly provide legitimate grounds for opposing the idiotic Articles 11 and 13 on the grounds MEPs should vote again.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    That poll may show why Biden has to run. To stop Bernie being the nominee and four more years of Trump.

    The way the Democrats are going the only thing likely to stop Trump, is Trump.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    Hitler seemed to have consistently conflated "England" for the UK (or Empire).
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    The Tiggers would be trapped - particularly as the LibDems are now likely to find an early election quite an appealing prospect given the shift in the polls.

    The LibDems might not be reliable either. They might want to change leader first. Each party will be trying to optimise the timing for themselves.
    The serious prospect of recouping half their 2015 losses to the Tories would be difficult to resist.
    There are 22 Tory gains from the LDs in 2015 that are still Tory. Here's the list of majorities under 4,000:

    St Ives 312
    Cheltenham 2569
    You have omitted Richmond Park , but on the basis of current polls the LDs would be hopeful of recovering Devon North, Cheadle,Lewes, St Albans, Wells, Hazel Grove, Winchester & Cornwall North. Gains from Labour, Plaid and SNP would be possible in Sheffield Hallam, Ceredigion and Fife NE.
    Richmond Park got filtered out by my spreadsheet search: it is an edge case and depends on how you treat by-elections. The Tories gained it in 2010, then "re-gained" it in 2015 after the by-election shenanigans. Clearly that's a decent target!

    Of your list, Cheadle and Lewes are quite plausible, being Remain seats needing a 5% swing or thereabouts. Devon North is closer in majority terms but a 57% Leave seat. St Albans [62% Remain] is certainly a possibility but that would be a first-time gain. The other Tory gains all look a stretch, based on a mixture of majority and leaviness.

    Things could change if the LDs can start squeezing the Labour vote down again, but there's a far more distance between the two parties now than there was in the heyday of tactical voting.
    Your point re-tactical voting is fair , but - with the exception of St Albans - those Tory seats do not have a history of significant Labour support over a period of decades. I have excluded Southport as Labour took second place in 2017 and may be in a position to challenge next time.Labour will have a new candidate in Sheffield Hallam too - though I have no sense of how that might play out. The Tory seats listed would be vulnerable to a swing of 7% or 8% from Con to LibDem - as implied by current polls. Whether that lasts or not , is another matter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    rcs1000 said:

    The real reason Boeing's new plane crashed twice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2tuKiiznsY

    Was it dragons?
    Donkeys. One big one hanging off each wing!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Meanwhile, Pete Buttigieg is now third favourite for the Democrat nomination and is gaining on Kamala Harris.

    Has he set out his position yet on the Booty-Gig economy?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited April 2019

    Dems seem to have a problem supporting female and ethnic minority candidates....

    Such as Obama!
    I'm trolling the party's obsession with identity politics of course, but it does raise a point about the future.

    Hillary couldn't retain the level of Black support Obama won, nor did voters seem to think her possession of a vagina was necessarily a qualification for the presidency in of itself. So how on earth are the Dems going to keep together their coalition of competing interests?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    matt said:

    Corbyn calling Begum a British citizen will win millions of votes. Oh, wait......
    Hes really not very astute. Assange and Begum.

    Is there a terrorist he doesn't support?
    I doubt Renamo were popular.
    Or the Contras!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited April 2019

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    Chinese is the same characters as Japanese. (Pronounced Ing Guo in Mandarin). It got that name before the Act of Union.
    There is also a Su ge lan (Scotland). Can't remember the characters.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, in the UK Government being incompetent *and* the EU being wretched news:
    https://twitter.com/MarietjeSchaake/status/1117752742011916289

    In fairness has the government not taken the line of not looking to rock the boat on the basis that we are leaving anyway?

    Of course, if we don't....but then we will have other things to worry about.

    The government of which Johnson was a part, and its predecessor, advocated for the Copyright Directive. The UK likes strong IP laws because we produce a lot of IP - especially content protected by copyright.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    kinabalu said:

    I suppose the question is how many times can Hunt return to Japan before the leadership election? It's great social media every time he does :p

    But the biggie for him, what I bet he is working on furiously, is surely springing Nazanin Zaghari-Rathcliffe. If he can do that, and be there at Heathrow to welcome her back, live on the main news, he will get a massive boost, even though 'Nazanin' sounds (and the woman herself looks) a bit Muslimy from the perspective of some of the party membership.
    There's Nazaneen Ghaffar who does the SKY weather forecast.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    I think they do plan the option voting for before the locals, so she is possibly wrong on that point

    The Lords is clearly a problem, and having suffered leaver filibustering already the majority has little reason to co-operate, unless Labour comes to fear Euro elections like the Tories. So long as top place looks achievable I can't see it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Observer, the technological illiteracy and authoritarian tendencies are also unlikely to make the government receptive to the legitimate and numerous voices raised in opposition to the new nonsense.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,871

    Mr. L, I've read that some MEPs who voted for the deal were misled by claims about changes to the proposal, and they recanted their support but the vote stood. If that's accurate, it would certainly provide legitimate grounds for opposing the idiotic Articles 11 and 13 on the grounds MEPs should vote again.

    Sounds about what you would expect from the European Parliament.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,536



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    ‘I notice that the right honourable Gentleman hasn’t welcomed...’

    “LONDON (AP) — Brexit may be causing all sorts of uncertainty in Britain but it doesn’t seem to be putting off foreign investors.

    In a survey on corporate deal-making published Monday, consulting and accounting firm EY says Britain is the top investment destination in the world for the first time in the report’s 10-year history — overtaking the United States, which has held the top spot since 2014.”

    https://apnews.com/c879be500904499a97f751ff40916c31
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
    The opprobrium heaped on them by labour tribalists is very 1981 SDP. Similar fear no doubt
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    isam said:

    ‘I notice that the right honourable Gentleman hasn’t welcomed...’

    “LONDON (AP) — Brexit may be causing all sorts of uncertainty in Britain but it doesn’t seem to be putting off foreign investors.

    In a survey on corporate deal-making published Monday, consulting and accounting firm EY says Britain is the top investment destination in the world for the first time in the report’s 10-year history — overtaking the United States, which has held the top spot since 2014.”

    https://apnews.com/c879be500904499a97f751ff40916c31

    You mean Hammond was telling porkies? Well I never...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    isam said:

    ‘England’ not ‘Britain’ slip up?
    What else do you expect from these unionist losers. They Think England is Britain.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
    The opprobrium heaped on them by labour tribalists is very 1981 SDP. Similar fear no doubt
    Only one SDP-er resigned and re-contested his seat: Bruce Douglas-Mann in Mitcham & Morden in 1982. He lost, and a split leftwing vote let in Angela Rumbold of the Tories, even though her vote-share went down slightly.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    Perhaps they are taking lessons from Cooper and Letwin. That was certainly legislative aggression unseen in Parliament for many years if ever. They have shown the way to ride roughshod over procedure and perhaps the Government should follow suit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,871
    isam said:

    ‘I notice that the right honourable Gentleman hasn’t welcomed...’

    “LONDON (AP) — Brexit may be causing all sorts of uncertainty in Britain but it doesn’t seem to be putting off foreign investors.

    In a survey on corporate deal-making published Monday, consulting and accounting firm EY says Britain is the top investment destination in the world for the first time in the report’s 10-year history — overtaking the United States, which has held the top spot since 2014.”

    https://apnews.com/c879be500904499a97f751ff40916c31

    I'm a leaver but I don't find much to celebrate about UK based companies being bought up on the cheap by international conglomerates on the back of a weaker pound. Direct investment in new plant etc is certainly to be welcomed but buying up existing businesses simply means that more of the tax on the profits is likely to be paid elsewhere in future.

    Foreign investment is also largely the other side of the coin from the trade deficit (since foreigners have excess Sterling). Our trade deficit is also nothing to boast about.

    Looking at the domestic market I really don't think it is questionable that the pigs ear that our political class have made of Brexit will have discouraged and delayed further investment here. It really is important that our politicians stop the nonsense.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    They are not right in the head and I am not talking about the Japanese.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Never heard of them .
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    I think they do plan the option voting for before the locals, so she is possibly wrong on that point

    The Lords is clearly a problem, and having suffered leaver filibustering already the majority has little reason to co-operate, unless Labour comes to fear Euro elections like the Tories. So long as top place looks achievable I can't see it.
    The voting options are unlikely to come up next week which means the earliest is early May . MPs will also have their attention on the local elections . Labour seems fine about the EU elections as does the rest of the opposition barring the DUP . The pro EU Tories have no interest in a speedy resolution . May can’t force through a timetable against the wishes of MPs and Lords . The government seems stuck in la la land .
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Renew is a far better name than Change UK - Chuk really should try to grab it once they've merged.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Quincel said:

    The Tiggers would presumably vote against Theresa May in a vote of no confidence and against having confidence in Jeremy Corbyn, while signalling that other potential candidates could get their confidence.

    That's not very hard really.

    I wonder if they want a quick election for maximum flux or a long Parliament for maximum party-building time? My guess is the latter, but I'm far from sure.
    Do the Tiggers actually have any members yet or activists?
    You don't need those when your virtue shines so bright.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Never heard of them .
    They got 3.7% at the Newport west by. A few behind the greens
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    eek said:

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Renew is a far better name than Change UK - Chuk really should try to grab it once they've merged.
    No chance unless Chuka's middle names are Rene & Ewan
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited April 2019



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.

    Presumably they were invited to meet her, rather than just turning up by chance to lobby her. From Pelosi's own Tweet of her meeting with Corbyn, she is clearly very aware of the anti-Semitism that has infected labour since he became leader. I think it's pretty hard to argue against the notion that all MPs have been pretty busy over the last few weeks.

    I agree, though, that being anti-Corbyn is nowhere near enough. I can't see a reason to vote for TIG. There are plenty of other ways to vote to try to stop Corbyn becoming PM.

  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    Perhaps they are taking lessons from Cooper and Letwin. That was certainly legislative aggression unseen in Parliament for many years if ever. They have shown the way to ride roughshod over procedure and perhaps the Government should follow suit.
    But if the government wants to ride roughshod over procedures it needs to have the votes to do so. Which it hasn't got.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    ‘I notice that the right honourable Gentleman hasn’t welcomed...’

    “LONDON (AP) — Brexit may be causing all sorts of uncertainty in Britain but it doesn’t seem to be putting off foreign investors.

    In a survey on corporate deal-making published Monday, consulting and accounting firm EY says Britain is the top investment destination in the world for the first time in the report’s 10-year history — overtaking the United States, which has held the top spot since 2014.”

    https://apnews.com/c879be500904499a97f751ff40916c31

    I'm a leaver but I don't find much to celebrate about UK based companies being bought up on the cheap by international conglomerates on the back of a weaker pound. Direct investment in new plant etc is certainly to be welcomed but buying up existing businesses simply means that more of the tax on the profits is likely to be paid elsewhere in future.

    Foreign investment is also largely the other side of the coin from the trade deficit (since foreigners have excess Sterling). Our trade deficit is also nothing to boast about.

    Looking at the domestic market I really don't think it is questionable that the pigs ear that our political class have made of Brexit will have discouraged and delayed further investment here. It really is important that our politicians stop the nonsense.

    Yep. We were bought by a US private equity house. It's a great time to be buying UK businesses. But day to day business investment in the UK has very badly stalled over the last year and a half.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Your new look UKIP:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/sargon-akkad-discord-ukip-mep-campaign

    What a f***ing catastrophe these EU elections are going to be.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    Perhaps they are taking lessons from Cooper and Letwin. That was certainly legislative aggression unseen in Parliament for many years if ever. They have shown the way to ride roughshod over procedure and perhaps the Government should follow suit.
    Except Cooper and Letwin was a short one page Bill . The WAIB won’t be that simple , it will cover in detail the role of the ECJ , financial obligations etc . MPs will be able to amend it aswell as the timetable . The government refuses to accept reality and is digging a deep hole for itself which is par for the course given the events of the last year .
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Never heard of them .
    They got 3.7% at the Newport west by. A few behind the greens
    Well probably makes sense for the loony fringe parties to work together.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Your new look UKIP:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/sargon-akkad-discord-ukip-mep-campaign

    What a f***ing catastrophe these EU elections are going to be.

    Buzzfeed is a joke.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    For anyone thinking of buying any Uber shares in their forthcoming IPO

    https://twitter.com/bytebot/status/1117323665865969664

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    They are not right in the head and I am not talking about the Japanese.
    I could be wrong, and I've no doubt someone will correct me if I am, but isn't the French for the UK 'Le Royaume Uni' but in ordinary conversation they just use 'Angleterre?'
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Renew winding up operations and becoming part of Change UK

    Mmmm - I think they are just winding up their European elections preparations. The statement doesn't say they are merging.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2019
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    They are not right in the head and I am not talking about the Japanese.
    I could be wrong, and I've no doubt someone will correct me if I am, but isn't the French for the UK 'Le Royaume Uni' but in ordinary conversation they just use 'Angleterre?'
    And HMQEII is routinely referred to as “the queen of England”.

    Just as well there aren’t any grievance mongers lurking in the undergrowth waiting to take offence....

    And to add to the gaiety of the nation Malay/Indonesia translates “Britain” as “Britania” and “Great Britain” as “Inggris Raya” (Great England).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
    The three Tories who joined them are looking more farcical by the day.....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
    The opprobrium heaped on them by labour tribalists is very 1981 SDP. Similar fear no doubt
    The SDP was also at its strongest at the time of launch in Spring 1981. By early 1982 quite a bit of air had disappeared from the balloon - even before the Falklands conflict came along.There were two surges following the strong showing of Roy Jenjins in July 1981 and Shirley Williams's triumph at Crosby in late November that year, but the period of heady enthusiasm as exemplified by packed public meetings up and down the land was in March/April 1981. The SDP alone - excluding the Liberals - was polling above 30% in hypothetical polls.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527



    I think they can reasonably claim they have not had much time to do anything other than be in Parliament dealing with the various Brexit votes. They have focused on those and everything else has been put to the side. But that has meant others have been able to do the defining. It looks too late for them already from a centre left perspective.

    They seem to have had time to go and lobby Nancy Pelosi against Labour (the day before she met Corbyn). They're doing a good job of convincing people that they are simply the Anti-Corbyn Project, which is probably not a sufficient;y substantial base to recruit more defectors.
    The opprobrium heaped on them by labour tribalists is very 1981 SDP. Similar fear no doubt
    Only one SDP-er resigned and re-contested his seat: Bruce Douglas-Mann in Mitcham & Morden in 1982. He lost, and a split leftwing vote let in Angela Rumbold of the Tories, even though her vote-share went down slightly.
    He was very unlucky in that the by election coincided with the middle of the Falklands War.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    This is what I alluded to earlier . The government simply doesn’t have the time to push through the WAIB .

    The Lords has no incentive to speed things up and MPs won’t appreciate being rushed , the Bill is likely to cause a major meltdown in the Tory party . There’s likely to be even less support amongst Tories than in MV 2.5 .

    The government needs to face reality , it’s not happening and EU elections are unavoidable .
    Perhaps they are taking lessons from Cooper and Letwin. That was certainly legislative aggression unseen in Parliament for many years if ever. They have shown the way to ride roughshod over procedure and perhaps the Government should follow suit.
    The government doesn't have the numbers.

    If the government had the numbers then I'm sure it would be rushed through, just as a small number of Acts have been rushed through in the past when circumstance convinced a majority it was necessary - say for anti-Terror legislation.

    Clearly the Cooper-Letwin Act had to be rushed through, because of the Article 50 deadline.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    To be fair to Hunt, I don't think that's too bad as a short explanation. England vs Britain...... well for a man who isn't sure where his wife comes from......
    In most foreign languages Britain is England. Apologies to any Caledonian readers who bristle at this fact.
    Perhaps the PB Japanese speakers (that should probably be singular) can confirm if this is accurate?

    England: イングランド (Ingurando)
    Britain/UK: 英国 (Igirisu)

    Have you a list of all these other languages that translate Britain as England? It would make fascinating reading.
    They are not right in the head and I am not talking about the Japanese.
    I could be wrong, and I've no doubt someone will correct me if I am, but isn't the French for the UK 'Le Royaume Uni' but in ordinary conversation they just use 'Angleterre?'
    For Scotland they always use Ecosse. They ask if you are English with lip curled up but change and smile when you say no Je suis Ecosse
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