Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB/Polling Matters podcast analyses May’s EU elections – t

13

Comments

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited April 2019
    As @Richard_Nabavi has noted already, tim, ex of on here, is on fire this morning.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Sean_F said:

    I expect Farage will get far more publicity than Batten.

    Gulf in class between those two, it has to be said. Farage is very much Eddie Large to Batten's Syd Little. And an interesting and rather disturbing question arises from drawing such a comparison. If they were to work together, as L&L so memorably did, will there be that same synergy? Will the two of them as a duo unlock something much bigger than they are capable of as individuals? One must hope not.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    edited April 2019

    Mr. F, daft suggestion. Khaleesi is a title, not a name.

    Reminds me, my mother told me of some chap, maybe a Trump relative, who had a first or middle name Christ. I objected on the same basis.

    Quite a few boys have been names Earl or Duke over the years.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    The next shitstorm is about to come down on the Tories.
    I have been informed that with the exception of 3 individuals who are standing down all existing Tory MEPS are going to be readopted despite major outrage from associations and activists at this decision.
    This decision has supposedly been made by the party board and has led to huge friction within the already dysfunctional organisation.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    I expect Farage will get far more publicity than Batten.

    Gulf in class between those two, it has to be said. Farage is very much Eddie Large to Batten's Syd Little. And an interesting and rather disturbing question arises from drawing such a comparison. If they were to work together, as L&L so memorably did, will there be that same synergy? Will the two of them as a duo unlock something much bigger than they are capable of as individuals? One must hope not.
    No danger there... Farage is a narcissist who wouldn't want to share the limelight with anyone else.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    nico67 said:

    I see the hate party has launched .


    Are you referring to our coterie of metropolitan types on here attacking Mr Farage in the basest form for having the temerity to offer himself up for election with views that don't align with their groupthink ?

    How dare he - doesn't he read the New Statesman ?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    I expect Farage will get far more publicity than Batten.

    Gulf in class between those two, it has to be said. Farage is very much Eddie Large to Batten's Syd Little. And an interesting and rather disturbing question arises from drawing such a comparison. If they were to work together, as L&L so memorably did, will there be that same synergy? Will the two of them as a duo unlock something much bigger than they are capable of as individuals? One must hope not.
    No danger there... Farage is a narcissist who wouldn't want to share the limelight with anyone else.
    Hes not stupid enough to be associated with Tommy boosters
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. Pointer, silly, but still better than the asking-for-trouble habit of some Americans calling their daughters things like Chastity...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    TOPPING said:

    As @Richard_Nabavi has noted already, tim, ex of on here, is on fire this morning.

    I enjoyed this latest one:

    https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/1116653804504649728
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    But the Gruardian still did business with him....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    As @Richard_Nabavi has noted already, tim, ex of on here, is on fire this morning.

    I enjoyed this latest one:

    https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/1116653804504649728
    Yes absolutely classic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Just think in a few months these useful idiots for Putin could be in charge...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Nigel Farage: "All I can say is I wish Barnier was on our side, not Mrs May."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    If we do end up with a GE, I wonder if that means a 9 party debate.... I suspect CHUK and TBP would have to be doing well in the polls to be allowed in.

    I do hope not - we've had too much massdebating already in politics recently.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited April 2019

    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
    I fail to see the distinction. Many MPs that Farage attacks as being part of the career political class had jobs before getting into politics, he is not distinguishing them as precisely as you are claiming to do. As Benpointer, er, points out, some very senior people can claim that. Either hes a hypocrite given his own decades of political activity or hes being a fool for not being clearer in who he is attacking.

    Since I think it clear he intends his attack to as wide as possible hes not being a fool. Which only leaves the hypocrisy
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I’m not likely to support Farage, but he is clearly not the career political class having had a job before getting into politics. I can’t be the only one who understands that as someone who’d done PPE at uni, worked at think tank / spad / union before becoming an MP.
    I fail to see the distinction. Many MPs that Farafe attacks as being part of the career political class had jobs before getting into politics, he is not distinguishing them as precisely as you are claiming to do.
    He even attacked Merkel as a career politician.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    For me the question is with Farage on the TV saying Brexit is great and no deal is brill, will the opinion polls swing more brexity. The PV lot have had a free hit up to now, especially as the Govt has been issuing statements about how bad they are at implementing Brexit and running the country.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Sean_F said:

    Should put it to a vote, let the great British public decide. You just know they'd go all Boaty McBoatface on them :-)

    I'd suggest Wayne or Jordan.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    edited April 2019
    Mr. Malph, it's worth remembering that Farage, whilst instrumental in Cameron promising a referendum, wasn't a help for the Leave campaign when it was actually held.

    Of course, opinions may have solidified (or ossified, if you prefer) since then, but he could still put some people off.

    Edited extra bit: by 'put them off' I mean turn soft Leavers to soft Remainers rather than directly turning would-be Brexit Party supporters into CUKs or Lib Dems.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    What the world needs now is Mogg, Rees-Mogg
    It's the only thing that there's just too little of
    What the world needs now is Mogg, Rees-Mogg
    No not just for some but for everyone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Andrew said:

    Sean_F said:

    Should put it to a vote, let the great British public decide. You just know they'd go all Boaty McBoatface on them :-)

    I'd suggest Wayne or Jordan.
    Alex seems to me to be the best name for a child. A name your child will never have to change no matter their gender, but also not seen as a boy's name if the child is a girl or a girl's name if they're a boy.
    It's not a name that's particularly in fashion, or ever really out of fashion either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    We need to revive some old school British names. Boudica if it's a girl, prasatargus if it's a boy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006

    nunuone said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Mwahahahahaha.

    The Brexit Party will get endless PR by the ever hungry 24 hour news. And a permanent seat on QT.
    I fear QT will not be able to resist their addiction to freak show-ism and a date with both JRM and ARM is already being pencilled in.
    Also featuring Rod Liddle, Yasmin Alibai-Brown and Stormzy
    Can't wait for my first 'I agree with Annunziata'.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    We need to revive some old school British names. Boudica if it's a girl, prasatargus if it's a boy.

    Caedwalla
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:
    Not as good as the one showing her running into the embassy.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Two Cs in Boudicca?

    And damn you to hell, spellchecker, trying to change Boudicca to the (probably) monastic revisionism of Boadicea!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006

    Nigel Farage: "All I can say is I wish Barnier was on our side, not Mrs May."

    Careery McCareeryface Barnier.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Nigel Farage Song - 'I'm Just An Ordinary Bloke'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6Rds4kbFE
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Nigel Farage Song - 'I'm Just An Ordinary Bloke'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6Rds4kbFE

    I thought that TV show was pretty good. Shame they didn't keep it going after the second series in 2016.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    We need to revive some old school British names. Boudica if it's a girl, prasatargus if it's a boy.

    I think we can fairly safely say if it's a boy it WON'T be called James...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Elsewhere on the deranged Brexit end of the political spectrum, all is not entirely harmonious:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1116664988826050560
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Two Cs in Boudicca?

    And damn you to hell, spellchecker, trying to change Boudicca to the (probably) monastic revisionism of Boadicea!

    Boo dicker sounds like something out of an early noughties garage hit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    David Starkey trending on twitter at the moment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    "The People vs The Politicians".

    This is a formulation that is specifically targeted at people who struggle to see what's what, a very large chunk of the populace, therein lies its power.

    I really hope we are not in for a serious dose of what we have seen in certain other supposedly developed countries, but I rather fear we are. Farage is a top class political operator.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    timmo said:

    The next shitstorm is about to come down on the Tories.
    I have been informed that with the exception of 3 individuals who are standing down all existing Tory MEPS are going to be readopted despite major outrage from associations and activists at this decision.
    This decision has supposedly been made by the party board and has led to huge friction within the already dysfunctional organisation.

    Why? Given that based on Tory policy they will only have a few months before losing their seats there seems little point in changing things.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
    Due to the Swedish statute of limitations, the sexual assault charges cannot be prosecuted. The rape charge could be, but it's damn tight to get him jailed here, extradited, questioned, charged, tried and convicted before the August 2020 SoL runs out on that too, so the odds are the Swedes will not ask for him.

    However, the Americans are not bound by statutes of limitations and have horrendously unequal extradition rights with us. So the odds are that for evading justice for years trying to dodge rape charges in Sweden, he'll end up being put on trial in the US.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited April 2019
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    The problem of course is the silly regions. The north east has only 3 MEPs so smaller parties have no chance of winning a seat but in the south east with 11 MEPs they do.

    Why aren’t all the English regions used for the elections the same size with the same number of MEPs? Why does Kent get proportionality in representation in Brussels but not Northumberland?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Elsewhere on the deranged Brexit end of the political spectrum, all is not entirely harmonious:

    Headbangers banging heads...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    Pulpstar said:

    Andrew said:

    Sean_F said:

    Should put it to a vote, let the great British public decide. You just know they'd go all Boaty McBoatface on them :-)

    I'd suggest Wayne or Jordan.
    Alex seems to me to be the best name for a child. A name your child will never have to change no matter their gender, but also not seen as a boy's name if the child is a girl or a girl's name if they're a boy.
    It's not a name that's particularly in fashion, or ever really out of fashion either.
    If it's a boy, it should be Adolf Shickelgruber Windsor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Elsewhere on the deranged Brexit end of the political spectrum, all is not entirely harmonious:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1116664988826050560

    That really is like watching a wasp land on a stinging nettle.

    You know they're both going to get stung, and the only problem is you might laugh too much.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    Elsewhere on the deranged Brexit end of the political spectrum, all is not entirely harmonious:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1116664988826050560

    Wait until the pair of them get on to citrus fruit tariffs
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    https://twitter.com/OwenSmith_MP/status/1116582816936906753
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    edited April 2019
    brendan16 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    The problem of course is the silly regions. The north east has only 3 MEPs so smaller parties have no chance of winning a seat but in the south east with 11 MEPs they do.

    Why aren’t all the English regions used for the elections the same size with the same number of MEPs? Why does Kent get proportionality in representation in Brussels but not Northumberland?
    Because the residents of Redcar can't bear to share MEPs with Hartlepool ?

    No idea to be fair - the North East and Yorkshire regions should be agglomerated at least.

    Edit: Just checked, the North East region includes Redcar, Cleveland & Middlesborough. The Tees should be the dividing line, the regions aren't even correct !
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    ydoethur said:

    Elsewhere on the deranged Brexit end of the political spectrum, all is not entirely harmonious:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1116664988826050560

    That really is like watching a wasp land on a stinging nettle.

    You know they're both going to get stung, and the only problem is you might laugh too much.
    He’s right though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    There is going to be a major row over the broadcasting rules during locals and EU, which should deny Farage pretty much any time, as he has no councillors and no % vote from last GE.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
    Due to the Swedish statute of limitations, the sexual assault charges cannot be prosecuted. The rape charge could be, but it's damn tight to get him jailed here, extradited, questioned, charged, tried and convicted before the August 2020 SoL runs out on that too, so the odds are the Swedes will not ask for him.

    However, the Americans are not bound by statutes of limitations and have horrendously unequal extradition rights with us. So the odds are that for evading justice for years trying to dodge rape charges in Sweden, he'll end up being put on trial in the US.
    His beard will turn even whiter in a US prison.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Problem though: half of any progress they make will end up with +UKIP votes. Many still think Farage=UKIP.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    We need to revive some old school British names. Boudica if it's a girl, prasatargus if it's a boy.

    I think we can fairly safely say if it's a boy it WON'T be called James...
    Didn’t it used to be common among the upper classes, for the first born son to be named after his paternal grandfather?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited April 2019
    Scott_P said:

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage

    Nige is an extremely skilled communicator and politician. I think one has to acknowledge that.

    In fact it is dangerous not to.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kinabalu said:

    "The People vs The Politicians".

    This is a formulation that is specifically targeted at people who struggle to see what's what, a very large chunk of the populace, therein lies its power.

    I really hope we are not in for a serious dose of what we have seen in certain other supposedly developed countries, but I rather fear we are. Farage is a top class political operator.
    We are. Sadly. And it has been repeatedly warned of, not least on this forum, and by the likes of Matt Goodwin.

    Existing MPs have not helped here, indeed could be argued have given birth to this. The refusal to compromise on all sides and work through a deal has led to this point.

    Deeply depressing.

    Thank God for FPTP. Will it be enough?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    isam said:

    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?

    :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    Scott_P said:

    It’s pretty obvious how upset he is that she hasn’t already gone.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?
    :D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Google has just taught me that Moggette is a type of bean.

    Better than being a has-been I guess.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:

    brendan16 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    If change UK and the Lib Dems cannot form some kind of alliance for the EU elections then they deserve to crash and burn at the next election. It would be a clear case of egos getting in the way and throwing away an opportunity to make a real impact in what will clearly be the next proxy referendum. So far though there doesn't seem to be much movement towards any alliance, mostly seems like the CUK side are reluctant to do so.

    @Iain pointed out yesterday how difficult it would be to form a joint slate in the amount of available time but yes, there's a real risk that they just split the non-Labour pro-EU vote.
    Because its members come from larger parties, I think CUK may be more arrogant and less experienced. The result with FPTP or d'Hondt can be oblivion. 6% of the EU vote doesn't mean several MEPs, it probably means none.

    The Lib.Dems have harsh experience of being squashed by larger parties due to the unfairness of FPTP.

    I'm surprised that the EU accepted this pathetic apology for PR. I think after the shock of the 1989 EU elections when the Greens got 15% and no seats it may have told the UK government that future EU voting had to be 'proportional'. This was the result.
    The most proportionate system would be to treat the UK as a single constituency, so that 1.4% would be sufficient to win a seat.
    The problem of course is the silly regions. The north east has only 3 MEPs so smaller parties have no chance of winning a seat but in the south east with 11 MEPs they do.

    Why aren’t all the English regions used for the elections the same size with the same number of MEPs? Why does Kent get proportionality in representation in Brussels but not Northumberland?
    Because the residents of Redcar can't bear to share MEPs with Hartlepool ?

    No idea to be fair - the North East and Yorkshire regions should be agglomerated at least.
    Because they were divided into regions by the Major government on the basis of county boundaries using a pencil and a ruler by people who had no idea of what was actually there or indeed what life was like outside the M25.

    That's how you ended up with Carlisle in the same region as Liverpool, whereas it considered it should be in the same region as Newcastle. You also have Banbury in the same region as Dover, despite the fact they have nothing in common and Kent on its own is comparable in (population) size to Northern Ireland or Wales.

    Either the big regions in the South need dividing further, or the five regions in the north and midlands need merging down to two. But that will never happen, as that would be sensible.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    He's box office.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    We need to revive some old school British names. Boudica if it's a girl, prasatargus if it's a boy.

    I think we can fairly safely say if it's a boy it WON'T be called James...
    Didn’t it used to be common among the upper classes, for the first born son to be named after his paternal grandfather?
    He'd look a proper Charlie if he did that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?

    :)
    Scott_P said:

    isam said:

    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?

    :)
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    Are you making a market on him being in the debates?
    :D
    🙌🏻

    Surely Batten is the new Farage in terms of being the bad guy?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Pulpstar said:

    Alex seems to me to be the best name for a child. A name your child will never have to change no matter their gender, but also not seen as a boy's name if the child is a girl or a girl's name if they're a boy.
    It's not a name that's particularly in fashion, or ever really out of fashion either.

    That is such a smart suggestion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farage is a top class political operator.

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage
    He's box office.
    Only because he cox up so often.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
    Due to the Swedish statute of limitations, the sexual assault charges cannot be prosecuted. The rape charge could be, but it's damn tight to get him jailed here, extradited, questioned, charged, tried and convicted before the August 2020 SoL runs out on that too, so the odds are the Swedes will not ask for him.

    However, the Americans are not bound by statutes of limitations and have horrendously unequal extradition rights with us. So the odds are that for evading justice for years trying to dodge rape charges in Sweden, he'll end up being put on trial in the US.
    In a US prison he gets to play the role of martyr for Press Freedom.

    In a Swedish jail he's just one more sexual predator.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    kinabalu said:

    That is such a smart suggestion.

    Unless they are Scottish
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
    Due to the Swedish statute of limitations, the sexual assault charges cannot be prosecuted. The rape charge could be, but it's damn tight to get him jailed here, extradited, questioned, charged, tried and convicted before the August 2020 SoL runs out on that too, so the odds are the Swedes will not ask for him.

    However, the Americans are not bound by statutes of limitations and have horrendously unequal extradition rights with us. So the odds are that for evading justice for years trying to dodge rape charges in Sweden, he'll end up being put on trial in the US.
    In a US prison he gets to play the role of martyr for Press Freedom.

    In a Swedish jail he's just one more sexual predator.
    In a US prison he's on the receiving end of sexual predators.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Not as good as the one showing her running into the embassy.
    That was my favourite too.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
    That is his brilliance (although, it is the limit of any brilliance he has). Being the anti-politician in an age where, since expenses, everyone hates politicians with a vengeance. It has also served Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson very well.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
    That is his brilliance (although, it is the limit of any brilliance he has). Being the anti-politician in an age where, since expenses, everyone hates politicians with a vengeance. It has also served Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson very well.
    And right now, this week, everyone is hating on politicians more than they have done in decades.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
    That is his brilliance (although, it is the limit of any brilliance he has). Being the anti-politician in an age where, since expenses, everyone hates politicians with a vengeance. It has also served Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson very well.
    In Farages case he can point to the system having UKIP over in 2015, the fact we haven’t left despite winning the referendum, and in more personal terms, the slightly dubious way the Tories beat him in South Thanet as ways that the establishment worked against him
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
    That is his brilliance (although, it is the limit of any brilliance he has). Being the anti-politician in an age where, since expenses, everyone hates politicians with a vengeance. It has also served Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson very well.

    Perhaps he's just espouses policies that resonate....

    Still underestimating him seems like a capital idea for other parties.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_P said:

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage

    Nige is an extremely skilled communicator and politician. I think one has to acknowledge that.

    In fact it is dangerous not to.
    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Jonathan said:

    What the world needs now is Mogg, Rees-Mogg
    It's the only thing that there's just too little of
    What the world needs now is Mogg, Rees-Mogg
    No not just for some but for everyone.

    Oh oh Rees Moggy, bam ba lam.
    Oh oh Rees Moggy, bam ba lam.
    Rees Moggy had a child, bam ba lam.
    Damn thing gone wild, bam ba lam.
    Bam ba laaaam.

    I will retrieve my poncho.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.

    Except, he isn't.

    He personally failed to get elected 7 times.

    Brexit is looking less likely than ever.

    He is the most successful self-promoter in decades. Makes BoZo look like a bumbling amateur.

    But politician? Not so much...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    David Starkey trending on twitter at the moment.

    The leftie mob after him as he called out Corbyn for being a well Corbyn..
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited April 2019
    Andrew said:


    Problem though: half of any progress they make will end up with +UKIP votes. Many still think Farage=UKIP.
    That split vote is only a problem for the Brexit Party. For CHUK and Labour it's good news.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, the positive of todays announcement, is he doesn't bother to hide his world view. Voters can now see what the foreign policy of a Jezza government will be shaped by.

    US: bad (period, no discussion)
    Russia: Good (period, no discussion)
    The message I’m getting is that sexual assault doesn’t matter if it’s perpetrated by lefties.
    Isn't Corbyn just talking about his extradition to the US? That's nothing to do with sexual assault.
    Don't interrupt pb.com tories when they are on a moralising wank fest. Morris Dancer is on the vinegars.
    Honestly I don't even really understand the position Cyclefree et al are espousing. We can't extradite Assange to both Sweden and the US, right? So if we care about the sexual assault charges (which we should), isn't that all the more reason not to extradite to the US?
    Due to the Swedish statute of limitations, the sexual assault charges cannot be prosecuted. The rape charge could be, but it's damn tight to get him jailed here, extradited, questioned, charged, tried and convicted before the August 2020 SoL runs out on that too, so the odds are the Swedes will not ask for him.

    However, the Americans are not bound by statutes of limitations and have horrendously unequal extradition rights with us. So the odds are that for evading justice for years trying to dodge rape charges in Sweden, he'll end up being put on trial in the US.
    In a US prison he gets to play the role of martyr for Press Freedom.

    In a Swedish jail he's just one more sexual predator.
    In a US prison he's on the receiving end of sexual predators.
    He's still the righteous victim rather than the guilty criminal in that scenario. It looks like that distinction is more important to him than more material concerns.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Daft bint couldn't deviate from her script.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    TOPPING said:

    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.

    Well I say you spoke an undeniable truth.

    Oh and your 'no smoking rule' analogy the other day, yes, very good.

    Question would be, is Jez a smoker or does he smell a bit because he's been on the top deck of the bus.

    That is what I used to tell my parents when I was a teenager. And it was sometimes true.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    kinabalu said:

    "The People vs The Politicians".

    This is a formulation that is specifically targeted at people who struggle to see what's what, a very large chunk of the populace, therein lies its power.

    I really hope we are not in for a serious dose of what we have seen in certain other supposedly developed countries, but I rather fear we are. Farage is a top class political operator.
    Direct democracy is demagogueocracy. That is why it is such a stupid idea.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_P said:

    Only because the BBC give him blanket coverage

    Nige is an extremely skilled communicator and politician. I think one has to acknowledge that.

    In fact it is dangerous not to.
    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.
    Successful I'm not sure about, but you only have to look at the whining that is already happening to see that Farage is bloody good at getting himself and his party in the news. He is one of the best campaigners in UK politics, and a hell of a lot better than anyone from the main three parties.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.

    Except, he isn't.

    He personally failed to get elected 7 times.

    Brexit is looking less likely than ever.

    He is the most successful self-promoter in decades. Makes BoZo look like a bumbling amateur.

    But politician? Not so much...
    Interesting take.

    His raison d'etre was to get the UK to leave the EU. And true we haven't yet left. But the campaign he lived and breathed for, and was the figurehead for and embodied was successful.

    "less likely than ever" - perhaps, perhaps not we shall see; it was certainly a lot more likely just after EURef2016. Plus I am not a fan of "we can't leave". Oh of course we shouldn't, and not on Francois terms, but the UK can leave the EU and might still do so.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting take.

    His raison d'etre was to get the UK to leave the EU. And true we haven't yet left. But the campaign he lived and breathed for, and was the figurehead for and embodied was successful.

    "less likely than ever" - perhaps, perhaps not we shall see; it was certainly a lot more likely just after EURef2016. Plus I am not a fan of "we can't leave". Oh of course we shouldn't, and not on Francois terms, but the UK can leave the EU and might still do so.

    He also thought the UK leaving would lead the whole EU project collapsing, and it looks stronger than ever.

    I wish him much more similar "success"
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TGOHF said:

    Scott_P said:
    Daft bint couldn't deviate from her script.

    Well, yes, but by accident rather than design she does nail him. His answer to the final question (Arron Banks, £1m) is not no.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Sandpit said:

    Mango said:

    The first Brexit party candidate is Annunziata Rees-Mogg.

    Sticking it to the Establishment, straight out of the gate

    Yes, it is quite brilliant isn't it. A former public school, metals futures city trader who has been a MEP for twenty years manages to rant about the elite and get away with it.
    That is his brilliance (although, it is the limit of any brilliance he has). Being the anti-politician in an age where, since expenses, everyone hates politicians with a vengeance. It has also served Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson very well.
    And right now, this week, everyone is hating on politicians more than they have done in decades.
    It's got so bad that millions of people that really, really dislike the guy will vote for him to stick it to the Establishment......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,161
    eek said:

    Andrew said:


    Problem though: half of any progress they make will end up with +UKIP votes. Many still think Farage=UKIP.
    That split vote is only a problem for the Brexit Party. For CHUK and Labour it's good news.
    CHUK threatens the Labour vote but of course under PR split votes matter less
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    glw said:

    Farage is bloody good at getting himself and his party in the news

    But that's the point.

    He is never off the BBC. If they gave him as much coverage as the BNP he would have been just as successful as the BNP
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Scott_P said:

    TOPPING said:

    In polite company a few months ago I silenced the dining table and drew all kinds of fearsome looks by observing that Nigel Farage was arguably the most successful politician in decades.

    Except, he isn't.

    He personally failed to get elected 7 times.

    Brexit is looking less likely than ever.

    He is the most successful self-promoter in decades. Makes BoZo look like a bumbling amateur.

    But politician? Not so much...
    The opposite argument being that his main policy proposal was supported in a national referendum, after the party of government felt they needed to support a referendum to improve their prospects after Farage’s party were the most supported in 2014. In a two party system where support is disparate this seems successful. Objectively he has been moderately successful, but in our FPTP system if you are unpopular with a larger number of voters there is an increased chance of strategic voting.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    On topic, it does feel like an easy one for Farage - his Brexit Party is just a vehicle for him (can anyone name anyone else in it? Apparently they exist, but invisibly), so the embarassments that other parties have with councillors who send .

    UKIP will peel off a fair percentage of the vote that might otherwise follow Nigel Farage given that many people will think that it's still his party (he has a particular problem in this regard that many of his voters are low information voters). Remember, a party called An Independence From Europe tallied just under 1.5% of the vote last time and that was alleged to be a spoiler party for UKIP. The name confusion alone is likely to be a problem for Nigel Farage. UKIP will have a substantial BNP-lite constituency as well for their stridently anti-Muslim message. The fact that there are two different "mad as hell and not going to take it any longer" parties is a problem.

    Labour should be favourites in my view. Not heavy favourites, but their vote should turn out as well as it ever does for Euro-elections (ie not well but it will). Something around 4/6 looks right to me for them.
    Ah I remember it well!

    Before the Election, 'An Independence From Europe' were going to take so many votes from UKIP by way of voters accidentally voting for them that the kippers wouldn't win the Euros... then, after Farage and Co won, and I suggested AIFE's votes could be added to UKIP's for our discussion purposes as they were clearly the party the vote was intended for, the meme that UKIP had underperformed was so strong that AIFE's votes were their property alone!
    Addressing @AlastairMeeks's point, for non betting purposes, does it matter if UKIP/Brexit split the Brexit vote, or TIG/LD do the same on the other side of the fence? Going forward, we will know how motivated the different sides are from the combined vote %s. I don't think the number of seats obtained is really that important

    Assuming we put Labour down as pro-EU and the Tories down as anti-EU, don't you think that at least some importance wil be placed on who gets most seats? Who the largest single winner of seats or votes is?

    I'm not suggesting it is like a GE where every seat counts at small majorities, but it will set at least some of the tone.



    I think the most interesting result is that of UKIP + Brexit vs LD + TIG (vote percentage).
    That's a good point. Splitting the vote is important in some ways, but as we'll just be treating it as proxy referendum on Brexit it doesn't hugely matter which toaster you pop your slice of bread in.
This discussion has been closed.