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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Melissa Kite in argument with Peter Oborne on Channel 4 News. Melissa Kite sounded desperate. She was pulling poll numbers out of her backside. Not the brightest that's for sure.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    Only works if the Executive is elected separately. If the government is (as is likely) changing every 12-24 months nothing will ever get done in a strategic way
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    Drutt said:

    IanB2 said:

    JosephG said:

    Drutt said:

    matt said:

    IanB2 said:

    Breaking: If Cooper/Letwin is agreed today, Government confirms the House will be receiving a motion on an extension. Motion would be tabled later this evening, for debate tomorrow subject to Royal Assent. Government only offering 90 minutes for the debate.

    89 minutes too many. MPs can just hold up placards saying “what I’ve said before, repeatedly”. Votes may have changed but there’s little evidence that anything said in Parliament has changed an opinion.
    Can anyone tell me how the Cooper/Letwin Bill gets to Royal Assent if it's gone through unamended on third reading in the Commons but has just been amended by Pannick's amendment in the Lords?
    Commons considers Lords' mendments. If accepted, Bill goes for Royal Assent. If rejected, Bill goes back to Lords, who decide whether to accept Commons' rejection of its amendments (which is usual) or to insist on the amendments, in which it goes back to the Commons to reconsider. In theory a ping-pong effect could occur (but I have a feeling at the back of my mind that Joint Committe of the Commons and Lords can be appointed to break any jog-jam).
    Which means that unless the Commons feel it wrecks the bill, it will be accepted
    I have done some more digging and understand that the Commons has set aside an hour this evening for just such a ping pong (legislative, rather than recreational).
    For the ping, not the pong. The pong is the problem which is why I don't think they will ping.
    The whole thing stinks...
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited April 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Andrew said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What is "enhanced sincere cooperation" when it's at home?


    Not deliberately being a massive tool and wrecking everything in sight to get our way.

    They're listening to what the likes of Mogg and Francois are saying, and concerned these clowns would have influence under a new PM.
    Farage. JRM, Boris, etc would love the EU to turf us out.

    Imagine the fun Farage will have trying to get the EU to kick us out especially if his Brexit Party cleans up in the EU elections (which will be a mandate to be wreckers)
    Nobody will "clean up" in a PR election unless you actually believe that Farage will get over 70% of the vote
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,885
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
    I actually wouldn't mind annual elections :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    edited April 2019

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
    I actually wouldn't mind annual elections :)
    Has anyone checked with Brenda from Bristol?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited April 2019
    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all that stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
    I actually wouldn't mind annual elections :)
    It's not whether you would mind them, it's whether you would suffer a full systems overload that was concerning me!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,901
    viewcode said:


    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(

    Without wanting to sound too adversarial, what kind of politics do you want? You do plenty of moaning. griping and playing the hackneyed old anti-politician game but come up with some ideas of your own to improve the lot of the country and its governance.

    Perhaps we can all vote for the Viewcode Party.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
    I actually wouldn't mind annual elections :)
    It's not whether you would mind them, it's whether you would suffer a full systems overload that was concerning me!
    Annual elections do have the advantage that, in marginal areas, you don't get big swings from one council to another and the organisation itself can often see changes of control coming, that the council is more responsive to residents concerns (which has pros and cons), and that the composition of the council isn't determined for four years by short term national politics or coincidence with other sets of elections. On the other hand it is fairly relentless for councillors and activists with an annual cycle of forever campaigning for the next election.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
  • I've been busy local electioneering (the important thing) and ignoring all the nothing happening with Brexit (the not important thing) - have I missed anything?

    I do remember forecasting that May would rescind A50 - a few days away from it coming to fruition...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Mmmm... ok that's a neat get-out. :wink:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Strictly, I believe he advised that actual legislation would be needed, which appears to have turned out not to be the case.
  • Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Strictly, I believe he advised that actual legislation would be needed, which appears to have turned out not to be the case.
    Yes, but to be fair in a functioning HOC it would have been, but good to have EU elections and a long extension hopefully
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    Glad to hear it Big_G.

    Assuming we are still in the EU on May 23rd the EU elections are going to be fun - plenty of opportunities for those PB gamblers to lose some money, I bet! (sorry)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    GIN1138 said:

    What is "enhanced sincere cooperation" when it's at home?
    EU language for our not playing silly buggers and, so long as we are still heading towards leaving, staying out of things that won't affect us.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Mmmm... ok that's a neat get-out. :wink:
    Fuck off. You have obviously never witnessed a self important bunch of arseholes debating motions in jcr meetings about urging the college to stop banking at Barclays.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    At least Bridgen will be happy. For a while.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Selected completely randomly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    @El_Capitano

    In future years, will Mark Francois be the Graham Kendrick of the Conservative party? :wink:
  • Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    Glad to hear it Big_G.

    Assuming we are still in the EU on May 23rd the EU elections are going to be fun - plenty of opportunities for those PB gamblers to lose some money, I bet! (sorry)
    Brexit in the ERG sense has been lost through their own stupidity and a softer brexit or no brexit looks on the cards and both are fine by me, once no deal is kicked into touch
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:


    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.

    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    Imagine the betting opportunities!
    Just imagine, 650 separate dodgy Lib Dem bar charts
    I think Sunil would actually explode...
    I actually wouldn't mind annual elections :)
    It's not whether you would mind them, it's whether you would suffer a full systems overload that was concerning me!
    Annual elections do have the advantage that, in marginal areas, you don't get big swings from one council to another and the organisation itself can often see changes of control coming, that the council is more responsive to residents concerns (which has pros and cons), and that the composition of the council isn't determined for four years by short term national politics or coincidence with other sets of elections. On the other hand it is fairly relentless for councillors and activists with an annual cycle of forever campaigning for the next election.
    I think that can be quite beneficial for local parties in terms of keeping the activist base engaged and enthused. I was active in the Lib Dems in Winchester in the '90s and I feel the the Local Party there was fortified by having annual local elections (three out four years for the district and the fourth for the county). I don't think the LDs would have won the parliamentary seat in 1997 without this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    Not entirely sure about that, they may not support mass nationalisations and paying a high tax rate but they support funding the NHS and core public services as much as older voters and are also more socially liberal and less pro Brexit than their elders
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Hmm. The anti-apartheid movement was moving, important and successful. That you sat on your hands gives you no right to sneer at others.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Don't fret, or at least not on account of this. Party X is heading to inevitable oblivion is virtually a genre. Eric Hobsbaum started it.

    http://banmarchive.org.uk/collections/mt/pdf/78_09_hobsbawm.pdf

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162
    Looks like we are heading for Euro elections then
  • HYUFD said:

    Looks like we are heading for Euro elections then
    Sincere co-operation is a two way street
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    stodge said:

    viewcode said:


    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(

    Without wanting to sound too adversarial, what kind of politics do you want? You do plenty of moaning. griping and playing the hackneyed old anti-politician game but come up with some ideas of your own to improve the lot of the country and its governance.
    Its not a bad point (although I would have phrased it less rudely). However I do not have any power to implement any solutions. Given that, my only realistic option is to observe and describe: given the parlous state of today's politics a certain ranty tendency is difficult to avoid. Insofar as I have a mission on this board, it's to answer questions when asked, correct errors when found, and provide occasional entertainment. I also like talking about betting if you'd like to do that instead.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Annual parliaments is the only outstanding demand of the Peoples Charter of the 1840s.

    Electing 130 seats each May would be a step that way, and keep 5 year terms. A reasonable compromise.
    How about electing 1 MP every 3 days?
    One STV constituency of three MPs every week. Each MP sits for about four years.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    _Anazina_ said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Hmm. The anti-apartheid movement was moving, important and successful. That you sat on your hands gives you no right to sneer at others.
    Well, I was young and foolish then, and I never heard of anyone actually dying of apartheid, except poor young black victims of Mandela's necklacing campaigns.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    That a way has been found will annoy much of the Conservative Party before the elections and the entire Conservative Party once the results are declared.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    @El_Capitano

    In future years, will Mark Francois be the Graham Kendrick of the Conservative party? :wink:
    Hahaha. Actual laugh-out-loud moment at that one.

    His greatest hit would presumably be Whine - Jesus! - Whine...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    Glad to hear it Big_G.

    Assuming we are still in the EU on May 23rd the EU elections are going to be fun - plenty of opportunities for those PB gamblers to lose some money, I bet! (sorry)
    Will turnout be higher than the 24% reached in 1999 - the last year we had stand alone EU elections?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,246

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like we are heading for Euro elections then
    Sincere co-operation is a two way street
    An enhanced two way street.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    @El_Capitano

    In future years, will Mark Francois be the Graham Kendrick of the Conservative party? :wink:
    Hahaha. Actual laugh-out-loud moment at that one.

    His greatest hit would presumably be Whine - Jesus! - Whine...
    It certainly wouldn't be 'Refiner's fire,' because he's passed on his heart's one desire.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like we are heading for Euro elections then
    Sincere co-operation is a two way street
    An enhanced two way street.

    white flags being prepared as we speak
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    They will settle for 9 months or just under, to coincide with the time May has left.
  • justin124 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Big_G won't be pleased - he's been telling us for weeks that MPs won't allow Euro elections to proceed.
    Quite the contrary I am pleased that a way has been found - anything to annoy Baker and Francois is fine by me
    Glad to hear it Big_G.

    Assuming we are still in the EU on May 23rd the EU elections are going to be fun - plenty of opportunities for those PB gamblers to lose some money, I bet! (sorry)
    Will turnout be higher than the 24% reached in 1999 - the last year we had stand alone EU elections?
    Motivated brexiteers and remainers may see a good turnout
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Facing a long delay is what most mps want. It opens up more options .

  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    edited April 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    Not entirely sure about that, they may not support mass nationalisations and paying a high tax rate but they support funding the NHS and core public services as much as older voters and are also more socially liberal and less pro Brexit than their elders
    True and therefore very much at odds with the current leadership. Unfortunately this may only become apparent to them through the bitter experience of a Corbyn government.
  • kle4 said:

    Facing a long delay is what most mps want. It opens up more options .

    It does and the trend is against ERG to a soft brexit, even no brexit, and as I have said both are fine with me
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scott_P said:
    Someone did some canvassing this weekend
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    To the leavers irritated that he is seen as their representative; to the remainers incredulous that such a man should get so much air-time; to the innocent children set to suffer because if his behaviour...

    I give you Twitter's collective opinion of Mark Francois.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=#MarkFrancoisMP&src=trend_click

    Safe to say he doesn't emerge well.
  • Scott_P said:
    Well done Daniel - another 60 please
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    Noteworthy that this is almost like resigning from a party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yes, thanks for the link - one to file away for anyone interested in constituency betting at the next GE.

    The stark age differential in voting patterns is extremely unhealthy for our democracy. But taking a narrow political view, the key for the Tories is ensuring that as the general population ages, people continue to switch in their direction as they move through middle age. But the evidence isn't encouraging. Being excluded from home ownership is reducing middle aged propensity to vote Tory. An increasing proportion of people approaching middle age are from ethnic minorities. The UK population continues to become more urban. And the 2016 referendum has frozen attitudes in time, with remainers then almost all being remainers now despite three years' more age.

    The deepest problem for the Tories is that the sort of things they need to be doing to attract back people of working age are the precise opposite of where their obsession with a hard Brexit is taking them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,138
    edited April 2019
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Noteworthy that this is almost like resigning from a party.
    Not really. The hardcore is less than 30 and max 60 committed to ERG
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    Another thread

    bites the dust

  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Scott_P said:
    MayDay’s demob happy and having a laugh. If she has any sense she’ll use this one-off opportunity to finally scythe this once great party of state of its moondog right. A tilt at immortality for Tess.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    rcs1000 said:

    Sorry for the late reply, as I've been out leafleting, but in the previous thread eristdoof asked me what I'm comparing this year's positive Lib Dem canvassing responses to.

    The answer is I'm comparing to last year, 2018. In my city the wards are all triple member wards with one of the three council seats in each ward up for election each year in turn (excluding the one year in four that we have county council elections instead).

    Local elections every year! There can't be many parts of the country that are blessed in that way.
    It's quite common, I believe - the idea is to keep a level of party activism all the time and to effect change gradually rather than have a sudden swing from one party to another. Whether the voters like being consulted/pestered more often I don't know.
    I'd quite like HoC elections for 1/5th of the seats each year. Hopefully governments would take a more long term view instead of coming up with bribes every 4 or 5 years.
    Why not one tenth every six month? Or, even better, one twentieth every three months?
    Selected completely randomly.
    To get through the whole lot in a FTPA parliament you'd need one about every third day. You could pull it out with the lottery numbers.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Ishmael_Z said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Hmm. The anti-apartheid movement was moving, important and successful. That you sat on your hands gives you no right to sneer at others.
    Well, I was young and foolish then, and I never heard of anyone actually dying of apartheid, except poor young black victims of Mandela's necklacing campaigns.
    Good god.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    edited April 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    The recent and current Conservative administrations are not Thatcherite and haven't been for some time. It's a case of the congregation killing the God thru ritual: they pay lip service to the outward appearance (or their interpretation of it) but ignore the substance. In Orwellian terms, they do not bellyfeel her.

    It's not confined to the Tories. How the hell Labour became a pressure group for the Palestinian people instead of its traditional role as the representatives of the working class to power is beyond me.

    And as for the LibDems...let us draw a kindly veil... :(
    Labour got that way because they were brought up on, or on their parents' reminiscences of, twattish anti apartheid demos and were looking for another racial injustice in a faraway country of which we know little to fill the void. It was bad luck that israel fit the bill because you were then combining all rust stuff with the traditional far left demonizing of the Jews.
    "twattish anti apartheid demos" Do you really believe they were silly waste of time?
    No, but it is possible to do something useful in a twattish manner.
    Hmm. The anti-apartheid movement was moving, important and successful. That you sat on your hands gives you no right to sneer at others.
    Well, I was young and foolish then, and I never heard of anyone actually dying of apartheid, except poor young black victims of Mandela's necklacing campaigns.
    Astonishing ignorance!

    Eugene De Kock amongst others has freely confessed to his murders, often of peaceful activists.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_de_Kock
  • dixiedean said:

    Anyone betting on the next general election needs to read this:

    https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Onward-Generation-Why-online-PDF.pdf

    I quote, “the Conservatives are on a demographic conveyor belt to oblivion.”

    Bleak.
    Yet if you look at the attitudes the young have, they are much more pro-Thatcherite than their older compatriots. The Conservative party problem seems to be one of branding, not substance.
    In terms of individualism, but not in terms of attitudes to international co-operation, the environment or the EU, for instance.

    Also a historically unprecedented, and arguably contradicting mix of things like greater support for economic and cultural individualism and support for state nationalisation of utilities and public services.
    Not to mention, whenever almost any social ill is revealed, the knee jerk response of "something must be done to censor the Internet!"
    Young people tend to find that creepy, unnatural and, almost always, promoted by a Minister without the foggiest idea how it works.
    This has turned my eight year old son into a leaver!

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/what-is-article-13-article-11-european-directive-on-copyright-explained-meme-ban
This discussion has been closed.