no deal becoming a popular option with the public now
The British will not be bullied.
Over and over again through history we've seen examples of the Europeans and especially the Germans in the 20th Century miscalculating and getting the spirit of this country wrong.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that after seeing the way the EU is treating Theresa May and by proxy the UK that "NO Deal" is very rapidly gaining support....
Its too late now - parliament will almost certainly rule out no deal this week.
Of course after the last few months you do wonder why we would want to stay a member of this organisation anyway.
But either way a large section of the nation won't be happy with the outcome - we may be about to move into purgatory Hotel California style (i.e. we keep trying to check out but never actually leave!).
Thing is Parliament can say what it likes... Actually stopping/revoking A50 once Parliament has actually given its approval for it is easier said than done...
But if we do finish up like Hotel California I suspect support for NO DEAL will only grow. The genie is out of the bottle and it can never be put back.
Anyone else think Warren, Gillibrand, and Klobuchar are overpriced as trading bets? There's got to be a decent chance one of them breaks through to the top tier, perhaps due to a meltdown of one of the current frontrunners. e.g. If O'Rourke collapses (and he's pretty lightweight imho) Klobuchar could pick up lots of white moderate voters, or if Sanders has issues then Warren is a clear 'replacement' for his support.
Also maybe Booker. Not Gabbard. Just never Gabbard.
The sixties were fifty years ago. So your point was pointless.
However, interestingly Tornado is still in service, although only just. Have a guess on which day it is due to go out of service. (It's a coincidence, but a poignant one).
"The planned final flight of an RAF Tornado is 14 March 2019 during the disbandment parade of No. IX (B) Squadron and No. 31 Squadron.[260]"
Wikipedia[1] says March 29 2019 date as the formal OSD (out of service date), but this[2] says March 31st. Could be wrong. I thought the co-incidence of Tonka retirement and Brexit date was too poignant not to mention.
It wasn't a bad little aircraft. Never glamorous, but it was sturdy and could deliver bangy things from point A to point B with some reliability. It had a propensity to fly into sand dunes during gulf war 1, but it was good enough and in a field where quite a few things are not even that, that's a thing. It was far easier to maintain than the Lightning (the old one, not the new US one) as you could drop the engines straight out, the pilots loved it, it was a truck. The ground attack version was good, the air defence variant was (after a shit-ton of money was thrown at it) eventually good. It'll be missed.
The Tornado was the only aircraft in which I've ever been airsick while in the back of one recreating the Dambusters raid on the Mohne dam.
The worst and most humiliating beasting we ever got in the Sea Harrier in DACT was from the Tornado F3s of the F3OEU aka "Gauntlet Flight". We "knew" that the F3s wing didn't work at high altitude so we posted up at 32,000 waiting deliver justice in the form of simulated AMRAAM shots. Unfortunately Gauntlet Flight didn't get that memo and descended on us with great fury from 40,000+ and killed us all in about 20 seconds. (AWACS: "Vixen 1,2,3 and 4. You're all dead. How embarrassing.")
An ex-USAF ex-colleague reckoned the sand dune collisions happened because the RAF was still using WW2 tactics of flying under German radar across flat Holland to drop dumb bombs on cows within 10 or 20 miles of their intended target. I do not know if that is fair but certainly he was not greatly impressed by our military support.
Desert Storm was run by the Bruggen wing RAFG Tornado squadrons and they just did what they knew which was the inflexible applications of the low level tactics designed for countering the forces of peace and socialism pouring across Germany. The level of losses sustained would have been a roaring success if we'd been fighting the Soviets. The situation wasn't helped by a cabal of Navigators deciding, on the eve the push, that they hadn't realised they might have fight when they joined the RAF. They now thought it wasn't quite their thing and were declining to participate. This was hushed up and they were sent back sausage side for "medical reasons". There was also some extraordinarily incompetent weaponeering which cost at least two jets.
They will not cave because they are being vindicated, in their eyes. In the last 10 days we have had Mark Carney saying no deal not as bad as forecast and worst for EU than UK. IFO Institute saying Smart Hard Brexit better for UK than EU. Dept of Transport signing deal with EU for flights to continue.
To them it seems that as no deal brexit gets closer the more institutions are saying the ERG view is correct.
Epically wrong by you.
The ERG say No Deal Brexit will be great for the UK/sunlit uplands, the people you've quoted say Brexit will be bad for the UK but maybe worse for the EU.
That will be bugger all comfort for the UK voters who lose their jobs because of No Deal.
Well, just to let all you wealthy and successful PBers know: I've already been unemployed for 6 months...
Very sorry to hear that Sunil, I hope you find something soon.
no deal becoming a popular option with the public now
The British will not be bullied.
Over and over again through history we've seen examples of the Europeans and especially the Germans in the 20th Century miscalculating and getting the spirit of this country wrong.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that after seeing the way the EU is treating Theresa May and by proxy the UK that "NO Deal" is very rapidly gaining support....
The British voted to leave over two years ago, The government submitted notice, then realised it wasn't ready, asked for a two-year extension (the withdrawal agreement), got it, asked for the backstop to be extended, got that too, submitted it to Parliament, lost, panicked, submitted it again, started insulting the EU for giving it what it asked for in the deal it asked for, and is so disgusted with this terrible EU it is considering postponing departure so it can be disgusted some more for some months.
no deal becoming a popular option with the public now
The British will not be bullied.
Over and over again through history we've seen examples of the Europeans and especially the Germans in the 20th Century miscalculating and getting the spirit of this country wrong.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that after seeing the way the EU is treating Theresa May and by proxy the UK that "NO Deal" is very rapidly gaining support....
Attitudes that illustrate clearly why we have got ourselves into such a mess, but not much else.
May's guiding objective throughout has been to keep her party more or less intact. Since no deal very clearly won't do that (a considerable number of resignations and defections effectively pre-announced) I expect it would be the last thing she would want to do.
Right, we are off on a 12 day cruise from Tuesday 12th; virtually no access to the internet or indeed any news beyond P&O's Daily Mail lite one pager each day.
What chance is there that after 3 years of tedious Brexit debate, I will miss the actual denouement?
Anyone else think Warren, Gillibrand, and Klobuchar are overpriced as trading bets? There's got to be a decent chance one of them breaks through to the top tier, perhaps due to a meltdown of one of the current frontrunners. e.g. If O'Rourke collapses (and he's pretty lightweight imho) Klobuchar could pick up lots of white moderate voters, or if Sanders has issues then Warren is a clear 'replacement' for his support.
Also maybe Booker. Not Gabbard. Just never Gabbard.
Possibly - but which one ? They can’t all be overpriced, and you might be waiting a long time for any particular ne to have their moment.
no deal becoming a popular option with the public now
The British will not be bullied.
Over and over again through history we've seen examples of the Europeans and especially the Germans in the 20th Century miscalculating and getting the spirit of this country wrong.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that after seeing the way the EU is treating Theresa May and by proxy the UK that "NO Deal" is very rapidly gaining support....
Attitudes that illustrate clearly why we have got ourselves into such a mess, but not much else.
May's guiding objective throughout has been to keep her party more or less intact. Since no deal very clearly won't do that (a considerable number of resignations and defections effectively pre-announced) I expect it would be the last thing she would want to do.
Also, because No Deal would destroy the Tory party’s electoral prospects.
However, No Deal also appears to be the express wish of Tory voters, membership, and the first preference of at least a third of the parliamentary party.
no deal becoming a popular option with the public now
The British will not be bullied.
Over and over again through history we've seen examples of the Europeans and especially the Germans in the 20th Century miscalculating and getting the spirit of this country wrong.
It really doesn't surprise me at all that after seeing the way the EU is treating Theresa May and by proxy the UK that "NO Deal" is very rapidly gaining support....
It’s that sort of attitude that has got us into this mess. For people like you the only bit of history worth reading is one year, 1940, conveniently forgetting all the times we’ve badly miscalculated and had to back down.
They will not cave because they are being vindicated, in their eyes. In the last 10 days we have had Mark Carney saying no deal not as bad as forecast and worst for EU than UK. IFO Institute saying Smart Hard Brexit better for UK than EU. Dept of Transport signing deal with EU for flights to continue.
To them it seems that as no deal brexit gets closer the more institutions are saying the ERG view is correct.
Epically wrong by you.
The ERG say No Deal Brexit will be great for the UK/sunlit uplands, the people you've quoted say Brexit will be bad for the UK but maybe worse for the EU.
That will be bugger all comfort for the UK voters who lose their jobs because of No Deal.
Well, just to let all you wealthy and successful PBers know: I've already been unemployed for 6 months...
Very sorry to hear that Sunil, I hope you find something soon.
Comments
But if we do finish up like Hotel California I suspect support for NO DEAL will only grow. The genie is out of the bottle and it can never be put back.
We shall see...
Also maybe Booker. Not Gabbard. Just never Gabbard.
The worst and most humiliating beasting we ever got in the Sea Harrier in DACT was from the Tornado F3s of the F3OEU aka "Gauntlet Flight". We "knew" that the F3s wing didn't work at high altitude so we posted up at 32,000 waiting deliver justice in the form of simulated AMRAAM shots. Unfortunately Gauntlet Flight didn't get that memo and descended on us with great fury from 40,000+ and killed us all in about 20 seconds. (AWACS: "Vixen 1,2,3 and 4. You're all dead. How embarrassing.")
May's guiding objective throughout has been to keep her party more or less intact. Since no deal very clearly won't do that (a considerable number of resignations and defections effectively pre-announced) I expect it would be the last thing she would want to do.
However, No Deal also appears to be the express wish of Tory voters, membership, and the first preference of at least a third of the parliamentary party.
There’s no good outcome left for Mrs May.