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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on a windy day and LAB still struggling to win CON con

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited October 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf on a windy day and LAB still struggling to win CON converts

The chart shows the broad make-up of the current LAB vote according to today’s poll. Although there is the normal variation from pollster to pollster and poll to poll the big picture is the same – very few CON voters from last time have moved into the LAB camp.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:


    And amazingly he's more unpopular than Miliband among UKIP voters in Octobers leader ratings

    No he's not. You keep saying this, but it's complete garbage - you are confusing satisfaction with popularity. Of course UKIP supporters aren't satisfied with David Cameron as a Conservative leader - they want the Conservative leader to be someone more like Nigel Farage, that's why they're UKIP supporters not Conservative supporters. But, given the choice between Miliband and Cameron, they overwhelming prefer Cameron:

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited October 2013
    Cheers Marf, As John Noakes, might say - Get down Shep…!

    RIP LR.
  • Great Marf!

    Whether Labour will actually hang on to that large chunk of their support which comes from 2010 LibDem voters is impossible to say for sure. I'd be very surprised if there's not some swingback along that axis, the questions are how much and whether this will be uniform or vary according to the type of seat.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2013
    With the fall out of the Unite/Falkirk/Lab scandal still continuing to make waves at Grangemouth, and the Chilcott Inquiry still to be published at some time in the not too distance future. Just how solid are those Libdem to Labour switchers that Ed MIliband has become so reliant on when it comes to his 35% strategy?

    From July. Guardian - Chilcot inquiry presses for release of Iraq war documents

    "Chilcot told Cameron that the inquiry would "be in a position to begin the process of writing to individuals that may be criticised at the end of the month, with letters containing the provisional criticisms to follow at the end of October … That will be a confidential process."

    Under the so-called Maxwellisation process, any individual an inquiry intends to criticise is offered the opportunity to make representations. Blair is likely to be one of those criticised, not least for not consulting his attorney general Lord Goldsmith or his cabinet colleagues in a proper manner before the March 2003 invasion.

    Chilcot said the inquiry intended to complete "at the earliest opportunity" a report "which reflects the magnitude of the issues we have ben examining and the importance of the lessons we believe need to be learned""
  • Dunno how plausible this is, but it's an intriguing article. Use software, rather than hardware to improve transport.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/the-wiki-man/9063211/the-wiki-man-hows-this-for-a-smart-car/
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    The point remains though that if you can only get 5-6% above core level against Brown you ain't very good, and any slippage is going to hurt.

    Brown was actually quite a skilled opponent (with Mandelson's help) - despite being the worst PM in living memory, he had a certain low political cunning and his shameless bribing of voters was quite effective. But, yes, with a biased BBC, biased boundaries, a two-decade long campaign of vilification, and the difficulty of selling much-needed austerity to voters, in what is now a three-party system in many seats, of course it was a massive challenge getting a majority.

    Ed M, in contrast, has the easiest gig in modern political history, according to you. Yet he's still only 5% ahead despite being the only opposition, and with UKIP splitting the right-of-centre vote. Odd, then, that Cameron has held on to most of that 2010 support.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    @Peter_the_Punter
    I've had a little nibble at your Naas picks too. Many thanks for sharing your thoughts - whatever the result might be. Appreciated.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    edited October 2013
    Mike - I'd say that to be only 4-6% behind with 18 months to polling day is extremely competitive.

    Whether the (inevitable) future Tory advance next year and into 2015 transpires because of kippers going blue, or Labour also shedding a bit to blue, 2010 non voters shifting blue, or some Labour or LibDem 2010 voters not bothering in 2015, or LibDems recouping some of their losses from Labour...the permutations are almost endless, aren't they...I don't give a monkey's. Neither should you.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

  • With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    And the Beeb quite rightly don't allow any other argument to be made...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @RichardNabavi The worst PM in living memory (and I am in my late 60s) was Eden for the Suez debacle followed by Tony Blair for Iraq.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    Immigration to solve an ageing population only makes it worse, as it would be a pyramid scheme with more ageing people needing more immigration.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    FPT @Tim.

    "Introducing facts into the immigration debate is like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

    Enjoyable article. Poor Stewart Jackson. It can't be fun always being angry. He was like that when he posted here.
  • @RichardNabavi The worst PM in living memory (and I am in my late 60s) was Eden for the Suez debacle followed by Tony Blair for Iraq.

    Actually I agree on Blair - I really meant the most unsuited in terms of personality and ability.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    tim said:

    tim said:


    And amazingly he's more unpopular than Miliband among UKIP voters in Octobers leader ratings

    No he's not. You keep saying this, but it's complete garbage - you are confusing satisfaction with popularity. Of course UKIP supporters aren't satisfied with David Cameron as a Conservative leader - they want the Conservative leader to be someone more like Nigel Farage, that's why they're UKIP supporters not Conservative supporters. But, given the choice between Miliband and Cameron, they overwhelming prefer Cameron:

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/

    Forgive me for preferring this months gold standard leader ratings to March's YouGov.
    Undoubtedly when you mention "conservative" in the question that swings some Kippers back,and it will in the GE, but there's no doubt Dave turns them off massively (far more than Theresa May for example, there's some polling on that I may have posted before)

    The point remains though that if you can only get 5-6% above core level against Brown you ain't very good, and any slippage is going to hurt.
    Perhaps because the only example of a Kipper you have come across has been in the polls and of course, iSam of this parish, you are unable to see what makes them tick.

    I come into contact with plenty of them. Europe unites them, the whole country going to the dogs unites them, and anger at Dave not having won an OM unites them (itself more indicative of a changing country less tolerant of perceived intolerance than a failing necessarily of Cam). For sure.

    But most of these people have been Cons voters their entire lives. Of course they find it amusing to give the govt and in particular Dave a kick up the **** but they also know that the Cons are the party most in tune with their own world view that are likely to come to power. They get the fact that if they don't "return" to the Cons EdM will be given an easier ride and so, come GE2015, they will switch back to the Tories.

    UKIP is headed towards 3-5%. Tops.

    It is the Lab=>LD=>Lab switchers where the battle will be fought.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Brown, Heath both much worse than Blair.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Marf is our heroin for the day.

    FPT It will take more than a giant beach ball to despatch me.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    I wasn't referring to my personal views: if anything I'm probably more in favour of immigration than the average voter. Polls show about 70-80% of people are against large-scale immigration and in a democracy they have to be listened to.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @Nabavi
    `But,yes, with a biased BBC`

    But the BBC were cheerleading for Cameron and villified Brown in 2010.One remembers Andrew Marr trying to create doubts about Brown`s longstanding medical condition,for example

    Hopefully the BBC have learnt their lesson that the man who had a 28 point lead and didn`t get a majority is unlikely to come back from a deficit. Ed Balls is likely to decide their licence fee in 2016,so it makes sense to be impartial.
  • antifrank said:

    Marf is our heroin for the day.

    FPT It will take more than a giant beach ball to despatch me.

    As a Liverpool fan, beach balls bring me out in a rash.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited October 2013

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    What an odd reaction - I don’t think Andy’s point was about immigration good or bad – more to do with a stacked BBC panel all 4 apparently in favour of immigration.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    'For a few moments someone may have thought IDS was competent, the odds were always long.'

    Just like people thinking that Brown,Balls & Darling were competent.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    What's Shapps up to with his comments on the BBC? Flying a kite for something in the 2015 manifesto?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    antifrank said:

    Marf is our heroin for the day.

    FPT It will take more than a giant beach ball to despatch me.

    I don't recall the original comment. Are we trapped in a remake of The Prisoner?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The point about the Moral Maze is that it would never have featured four panellists with anti-immigration views, even though that would have been far closer to reflecting public opinion than having four pro-immigrant panellists.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
    US shows are commercial and good - which is his point.

    Best UK historical drama at the moment? Probably Downtown Abbey - ITV.

    And if you think that the BBC is good on (real) comedy, you're having a larf.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Incidentally, that sort of sighting is quite jejune for the Old Street area. I once walked to a restaurant just around the corner from me to be confronted by three panellists being filmed discussing "what is art?".
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    tim said:


    And amazingly he's more unpopular than Miliband among UKIP voters in Octobers leader ratings



    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/

    Forgive me for preferring this months gold standard leader ratings to March's YouGov.
    Undoubtedly when you mention "conservative" in the question that swings some Kippers back,and it will in the GE, but there's no doubt Dave turns them off massively (far more than Theresa May for example, there's some polling on that I may have posted before)

    The point remains though that if you can only get 5-6% above core level against Brown you ain't very good, and any slippage is going to hurt.
    Perhaps because the only example of a Kipper you have come across has been in the polls and of course, iSam of this parish, you are unable to see what makes them tick.

    I come into contact with plenty of them. Europe unites them, the whole country going to the dogs unites them, and anger at Dave not having won an OM unites them (itself more indicative of a changing country less tolerant of perceived intolerance than a failing necessarily of Cam). For sure.

    But most of these people have been Cons voters their entire lives. Of course they find it amusing to give the govt and in particular Dave a kick up the **** but they also know that the Cons are the party most in tune with their own world view that are likely to come to power. They get the fact that if they don't "return" to the Cons EdM will be given an easier ride and so, come GE2015, they will switch back to the Tories.

    UKIP is headed towards 3-5%. Tops.

    It is the Lab=>LD=>Lab switchers where the battle will be fought.
    41% of UKIP supporters would never consider voting Conservative and a further 19% would probably not vote Conservative therefore if UKIP go back down to 3-5% the Conservatives would make very little net gain
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    SMukesh said:

    @Nabavi
    `But,yes, with a biased BBC`

    But the BBC were cheerleading for Cameron and villified Brown in 2010.One remembers Andrew Marr trying to create doubts about Brown`s longstanding medical condition,for example

    Hopefully the BBC have learnt their lesson that the man who had a 28 point lead and didn`t get a majority is unlikely to come back from a deficit. Ed Balls is likely to decide their licence fee in 2016,so it makes sense to be impartial.

    Well, when the BBC finally gets round to demonstrating that their news and current affairs staff are not massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters, as everyone believes to be the case, I might believe you. In the meantime, I'll look at what I see and hear, which is a huge pro-left bias, so enormous and deep-rooted that they think they are being impartial.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Looks like he is showing a bit of leg to Rupert.
    taffys said:

    What's Shapps up to with his comments on the BBC? Flying a kite for something in the 2015 manifesto?

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Jeff Randall at Sky News - Labour 'Got It Wrong' On Immigration

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    And the Beeb quite rightly don't allow any other argument to be made...
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    @Nabavi
    `But,yes, with a biased BBC`

    But the BBC were cheerleading for Cameron and villified Brown in 2010.One remembers Andrew Marr trying to create doubts about Brown`s longstanding medical condition,for example

    Hopefully the BBC have learnt their lesson that the man who had a 28 point lead and didn`t get a majority is unlikely to come back from a deficit. Ed Balls is likely to decide their licence fee in 2016,so it makes sense to be impartial.

    Well, when the BBC finally gets round to demonstrating that their news and current affairs staff are not massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters, as everyone believes to be the case, I might believe you. In the meantime, I'll look at what I see and hear, which is a huge pro-left bias, so enormous that they think they are being impartial.
    61% of the population trust the BBC.

    Whinging right wingers` judgements of impartiality do not count.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574

    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
    I quite like the BBC - its a sort of familiar relative 'Aunty'. Its nature and documentaries are still often worth watching. But it should be allowed to raise its own cash via advertising revenue and the license fee dropped. It is a tax in all but name, and very regressive. We don't NEED the BBC like we do power for instance...
  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    A lot of this is to do with snobbery. Tony Blair looked and sounded like a middle England Tory. Ed Miliband due to his marxist father and immigrant background does not meet with the tick list snobbery of most Tory voters. I don't think it is to do with EM's/Labours politics versus DC/Tory politics. Most Tories have very traditional old fashioned values and feel threatened by the diverse ethnic mix enjoyed in most of our major cities. This is why Labour dominate most of UK's largest cities and the Tories dominate the shires. The question should be asked as to whether the Tories can obtain the votes of people living in Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and London. If they can't do so, they may be stuck below 35% of the vote and from there, they cannot win a majority.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    It cuts both ways, doesn't it? The reason we're not seeing post-mideterm swingback from the Tories is that there wasn't a swing to them in the first place. Oppositions usually win a flaky chunk of the opposite party's votes (giving a 10-15% lead in mid-term) which then usually drift back.

    The reason the Labour share is so stubborn is that it's almost entirely composed of people who already said they preferred Labour to Cameron plus LibDems who came over almost instantly when the Tory-LibDem coalition was announced. Both groups are extremely resistant to Tory blandishments, despite best Tory efforts to suggest that in retrospect Brown was a splendid electoral asset sadly unavailable to Miliband.

    Topping: you say UKIP 3-5% tops. They got 3% last time, almost certainly with far fewer candidates. Are you saying you expect them to do worse?
  • No he's not. You keep saying this, but it's complete garbage....

    Prof: It is easy to stop Wee-Timmy and His Spiel: Quote him; identify his inconsistencies; and then ask him to reflect. After that....

    :utter-silence:

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    SMukesh said:

    61% of the population trust the BBC.

    Exactly. You have put your finger on the precise problem, which is that the historic trust of people in the BBC - based on the long-forgotten traditions of Lord Reith - makes the organisation's pro-left bias a major issue.

    There's no need for any subjective argument about this, there are multiple objective tests which could be applied, as I've pointed out before. But the BBC just reply to anyone asking for these objective tests by saying there's no need because they are wonderfully impartial.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    hucks67 said:

    A lot of this is to do with snobbery. Tony Blair looked and sounded like a middle England Tory. Ed Miliband due to his marxist father and immigrant background does not meet with the tick list snobbery of most Tory voters. I don't think it is to do with EM's/Labours politics versus DC/Tory politics. Most Tories have very traditional old fashioned values and feel threatened by the diverse ethnic mix enjoyed in most of our major cities. This is why Labour dominate most of UK's largest cities and the Tories dominate the shires. The question should be asked as to whether the Tories can obtain the votes of people living in Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and London. If they can't do so, they may be stuck below 35% of the vote and from there, they cannot win a majority.

    I think quite alot of Labour voters aren't massive fans of immigration either, but these will tend to be safe labour seats...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847
    edited October 2013

    Dunno how plausible this is, but it's an intriguing article. Use software, rather than hardware to improve transport.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/the-wiki-man/9063211/the-wiki-man-hows-this-for-a-smart-car/

    Thanks for that link - I'm genuinely intrigued. I'm a softie, so I'd like to think the solution to all the world's problems could be fixed by a few lines of codes and a little testing. But this story smells odd. Why?

    1) London to Manchester is about 2hr 10 minutes. Removing 25 minutes off this - essentially 20% - from software alone is a high bar to jump, and does not match my (inexpert) understanding of the signalling system.

    2) Under the £9-10 billion WCML upgrade, Ratiltrack and later Network Rail spent £250 million trying to develop a moving block signalling system, and failed (1). They'll be kicking themselves if they could have got better benefits for £30,000.

    3) It would cost more than £30,000 to get any change past the authorities. Railway safety is very highly regulated, and any changes have to be carefully checked to see how they affect other parts of the system.

    4) The Tesla story smells suspicious. Tesla would have had to test that change a great deal in actual hardware, unless they already had developed the capability as an option. If the story's true, avoid Tesla cars.

    Unless he's thinking of slowing down all the clocks on the trains... ;-)

    (1): P. 32 of http://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/060722.pdf
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    edited October 2013

    It cuts both ways, doesn't it? The reason we're not seeing post-mideterm swingback from the Tories is that there wasn't a swing to them in the first place. Oppositions usually win a flaky chunk of the opposite party's votes (giving a 10-15% lead in mid-term) which then usually drift back.

    The reason the Labour share is so stubborn is that it's almost entirely composed of people who already said they preferred Labour to Cameron plus LibDems who came over almost instantly when the Tory-LibDem coalition was announced. Both groups are extremely resistant to Tory blandishments, despite best Tory efforts to suggest that in retrospect Brown was a splendid electoral asset sadly unavailable to Miliband.

    Topping: you say UKIP 3-5% tops. They got 3% last time, almost certainly with far fewer candidates. Are you saying you expect them to do worse?

    And round and round in circles we go. How many times do you have to be reminded that Labour were indeed often enjoying around 10% leads that have halved since - well, blow me down - the economy has started to recover? You've described the Labour share on those occasions as 'frothy' but why should to-day's levels, in shares and leads, not alter further as they have demonstrably already done in only a few months?

    We have a far more volatile, de-aligned electorate than perhaps ever before.

    Ask me in 12 months time. If this coherent ideological block is as you claim it is, then Labour will still be polling around 38% irrespective of the performance of the economy etc. Hmmm. Right!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Twitter
    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 51s
    "If you don’t have a coalition between parties you tend to get one within the party." Blair on coalition http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/hss/115787.html
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    SMukesh said:

    61% of the population trust the BBC.

    Exactly. You have put your finger on the precise problem, which is that the historic trust of people in the BBC - based on the long-forgotten traditions of Lord Reith - makes the organisation's pro-left bias a major issue.

    There's no need for any subjective argument about this, there are muliple objective tests which could be applied, as I've pointed out before. But the BBC just reply to anyone asking for these objective tests by saying there's no need because they are wonderfully impartial.
    I disagree.Are you suggesting that younger people who haven`t got a clue about Lord Reith don`t trust the BBC.Perhaps you could give us the figures for younger vs older people.

    Where I agree slightly with you is the Beeb was more left wing vis a vis Immigration and Europe till a few years ago but they have since corrected that.

    When the government floats imaginary theories about health and benefit tourists from Europe,one expects the Beeb to investigate and tell us the truth.No surprise the government didn`t like it.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    At some point you'll have to acknowledge that Cameron has just been a bit second rate for the almost eight years he's been leading your party.

    I doubt it, at the moment he's very much meeting my expectations since this is the best government, bar Maggie, for 50 years. The fact that the only criticisms are based on (currently) some ludicrous nonsense about non-existent profiteering by energy companies very much supports my point - opponents are having either to invent mythical failings to criticise, or look for trivia.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    SMukesh said:

    @Nabavi
    `But,yes, with a biased BBC`

    But the BBC were cheerleading for Cameron and villified Brown in 2010.One remembers Andrew Marr trying to create doubts about Brown`s longstanding medical condition,for example

    Hopefully the BBC have learnt their lesson that the man who had a 28 point lead and didn`t get a majority is unlikely to come back from a deficit. Ed Balls is likely to decide their licence fee in 2016,so it makes sense to be impartial.

    Well, when the BBC finally gets round to demonstrating that their news and current affairs staff are not massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters, as everyone believes to be the case, I might believe you. In the meantime, I'll look at what I see and hear, which is a huge pro-left bias, so enormous and deep-rooted that they think they are being impartial.
    I think that the " everyone who believes that the BBC is massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters" actually consists of around a dozen pb Tories including yourself plus Grant Shapps .
  • With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    Incorrect: Open borders are the answer. As any fool knows!.

    Whether in the Netherlands or Lewisham (and no-one would go and live in Bedford; have you seen the neighbours) immigration per-se is not the answer. What is needed is to reform UK benefits: Some bloke called ^w(3)d(4)$ might help you understand that OG....
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    You'd all do well to listen to me more.
    It's widely known that having Susannah Reid perched on the BBC sofa three days a week justifies the licence fee regardless of all other programming.
  • I think that the " everyone who believes that the BBC is massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters" actually consists of around a dozen pb Tories including yourself plus Grant Shapps .

    Fair enough.

    And your evidence that we are wrong is what, exactly?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847
    SMukesh said:

    SMukesh said:

    61% of the population trust the BBC.

    Exactly. You have put your finger on the precise problem, which is that the historic trust of people in the BBC - based on the long-forgotten traditions of Lord Reith - makes the organisation's pro-left bias a major issue.

    There's no need for any subjective argument about this, there are muliple objective tests which could be applied, as I've pointed out before. But the BBC just reply to anyone asking for these objective tests by saying there's no need because they are wonderfully impartial.
    I disagree.Are you suggesting that younger people who haven`t got a clue about Lord Reith don`t trust the BBC.Perhaps you could give us the figures for younger vs older people.

    Where I agree slightly with you is the Beeb was more left wing vis a vis Immigration and Europe till a few years ago but they have since corrected that.

    When the government floats imaginary theories about health and benefit tourists from Europe,one expects the Beeb to investigate and tell us the truth.No surprise the government didn`t like it.
    There's a great desire amongst many young people for things to be 'free': free software, free music, free films. The idea you have to directly pay a tax in order to get something of high quality like the BBC might not be as ingrained as you think. If it isn't available for free, get a free version, or pirate it.

    As I said the other day: why do the BBC think they are immune to the pressures that other media such as newspapers suffer?

    (Yet again I have to say I like the BBC, and I don't mind paying the licence fee. I just cannot see how that funding modem can survive long-term).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
    I think he is talking about HBO, FOX etc.

    Can you imagine the BBC making GoT ? Breaking Bad ? The Wire ? Lost ?

    Spooks and Dr Who are the only BBC dramas that have done eff all globally in recent years.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098

    TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    tim said:


    And amazingly he's more unpopular than Miliband among UKIP voters in Octobers leader ratings



    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/analysis-ukip-voters/

    Forgive me for preferring this months gold standard leader ratings to March's YouGov.
    Undoubtedly when you mention "conservative" in the question that swings some Kippers back,and it will in the GE, but there's no doubt Dave turns them off massively (far more than Theresa May for example, there's some polling on that I may have posted before)

    The point remains though that if you can only get 5-6% above core level against Brown you ain't very good, and any slippage is going to hurt.
    Perhaps because the only example of a Kipper you have come across has been in the polls and of course, iSam of this parish, you are unable to see what makes them tick.

    I come into contact with plenty of them. Europe unites them, the whole country going to the dogs unites them, and anger at Dave not having won an OM unites them (itself more indicative of a changing country less tolerant of perceived intolerance than a failing necessarily of Cam). For sure.

    But most of these people have been Cons voters their entire lives. Of course they find it amusing to give the govt and in particular Dave a kick up the **** but they also know that the Cons are the party most in tune with their own world view that are likely to come to power. They get the fact that if they don't "return" to the Cons EdM will be given an easier ride and so, come GE2015, they will switch back to the Tories.

    UKIP is headed towards 3-5%. Tops.

    It is the Lab=>LD=>Lab switchers where the battle will be fought.
    41% of UKIP supporters would never consider voting Conservative and a further 19% would probably not vote Conservative therefore if UKIP go back down to 3-5% the Conservatives would make very little net gain
    Of course there is also an element, given its demographic that thinks "a pox on all your houses"/NOTA so those numbers don't surprise me too much.

    My central premise remains, as you note, UKIP is not where the battle will be fought.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    tim said:

    All fans of the "not clever enough" IDS may have had their hopes raise today by media spin that Universal Credit had been "rolled out to London", this following the realisation on Friday afternoon that the changes to DLA weren't ready for Monday.

    The headline suggests a sudden outbreak of competence from the highly regarded former Conservative leader.
    So it clearly couldn't be true.

    And so it proves.

    Universal Credit was supposed to roll out beyond the borders of Ashton Under Lyme today into six job centres, that's six job centres, around the country, Hammersmith,Rugby, Inverness, Harrogate, Bath and Shotton.
    But only Hammersmith was ready, so the other five have been delayed for another six months.

    For a few moments someone may have thought IDS was competent, the odds were always long.

    From what you're saying, it looks as if the Job Centres are riddled with incompetence.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    I think that the " everyone who believes that the BBC is massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters" actually consists of around a dozen pb Tories including yourself plus Grant Shapps .

    Fair enough.

    And your evidence that we are wrong is what, exactly?
    It is down to you to offfer the evidence that you are correct . I am sure that there is ample polling evidence that yours is a minority view amongst the population as a whole and nowhere near " everyone" .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    Ack Should have backed E/W - Nice tip anyway. Clearly was value.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Cheers Marf, As John Noakes, might say - Get down Shep…!

    RIP LR.

    Indeed so although it has to be said there seems to be a lot more admirers popping out of the woodwork now than ever bought his records here in the UK. I was a liitle too young to remember the Velvet Underground first hand and he didn't really appear on the compass of rock fans growing up in the seventies.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited October 2013
    I think that the BBC is stuffed full of a lot of people who are making a lot of money off the back of this taxpayer funded organisation. It gets away with being less accountable for how it operates and spends its budget than our elected Government.

    SMukesh said:

    @Nabavi
    `But,yes, with a biased BBC`

    But the BBC were cheerleading for Cameron and villified Brown in 2010.One remembers Andrew Marr trying to create doubts about Brown`s longstanding medical condition,for example

    Hopefully the BBC have learnt their lesson that the man who had a 28 point lead and didn`t get a majority is unlikely to come back from a deficit. Ed Balls is likely to decide their licence fee in 2016,so it makes sense to be impartial.

    Well, when the BBC finally gets round to demonstrating that their news and current affairs staff are not massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters, as everyone believes to be the case, I might believe you. In the meantime, I'll look at what I see and hear, which is a huge pro-left bias, so enormous and deep-rooted that they think they are being impartial.
    I think that the " everyone who believes that the BBC is massively stuffed with Guardian readers and Labour supporters" actually consists of around a dozen pb Tories including yourself plus Grant Shapps .
  • It is down to you to offfer the evidence that you are correct . I am sure that there is ample polling evidence that yours is a minority view amongst the population as a whole and nowhere near " everyone" .

    Ah yes, just like the standard BBC response - "we are so impartial that we don't need to investigate whether we're impartial".

    Well, here's one piece of evidence:

    http://www.thecommentator.com/userfiles/files/bg.pdf

    But what I really want is a survey of the staff. It beggars belief that they monitor ethnic and gender balance but not the most important parameter of all for a news organisation - political balance.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited October 2013

    Topping: you say UKIP 3-5% tops. They got 3% last time, almost certainly with far fewer candidates. Are you saying you expect them to do worse?

    I'm pretty sure that UKIP fielded 530-odd candidates at GE2010. Not far fewer than Labour or Lib Dems.

    I do think UKIP will considerably increase their vote, but I don't think standing more candidates will be a big factor in that.

    Edit: 558 UKIP candidates, compared to 631 for Labour and Lib Dems (ie all excluding Northern Ireland and Speaker).
  • tim said:

    Profits for energy firms DOUBLE in a year adding £50 to every family's bill while wholesale prices barely change
    Ofgem says wholesale costs have risen by 1.7% in a year but profits double

    Nice to see you showing your impartiality by quoting garbage from the Mail. That quote is a quite wonderful non-sequitur, isn't it?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
    I think he is talking about HBO, FOX etc.

    Can you imagine the BBC making GoT ? Breaking Bad ? The Wire ? Lost ?

    Spooks and Dr Who are the only BBC dramas that have done eff all globally in recent years.

    I saw a bit of Dr Who on French TV at the weekend. Matt Smith makes a remarkably good French Doctor with all that waving about and wildly expressive face.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I am sure that there is ample polling evidence that yours is a minority view amongst the population as a whole and nowhere near " everyone" .

    Interesting. I wonder if the tories see scrapping the license fee as one rather easy way to take the pressure off the squeezed middle.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    On Topic, the chart at the top shows how utterly toxic the Labour Party has become with its authoritarianism, history of bullying, free immigration and inability to control spending.

    To only attract 3% from an unpopular (allegedly) cost cutting governing party is pathetic. Labour should be in a darkened room asking why they are failing so abominably.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    It is down to you to offfer the evidence that you are correct . I am sure that there is ample polling evidence that yours is a minority view amongst the population as a whole and nowhere near " everyone" .

    Ah yes, just like the standard BBC response - "we are so impartial that we don't need to investigate whether we're impartial".

    Well, here's one piece of evidence:

    http://www.thecommentator.com/userfiles/files/bg.pdf

    But what I really want is a survey of the staff. It beggars belief that they monitor ethnic and gender balance but not the most important parameter of all for a news organisation - political balance.
    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Norm said:

    Cheers Marf, As John Noakes, might say - Get down Shep…!

    RIP LR.

    Indeed so although it has to be said there seems to be a lot more admirers popping out of the woodwork now than ever bought his records here in the UK. I was a liitle too young to remember the Velvet Underground first hand and he didn't really appear on the compass of rock fans growing up in the seventies.
    Not a great fan of Lou Reed myself, but the advantage of growing up in the 70s with older siblings was a good mix of Beatles/Motown/Rock, constantly blasting out. – Walk on the Wild Side was a favourite on the Juke box in a make shift club friends and I built as teenagers – I still have a soft spot for LR as a result. It was a cracking time being 18.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited October 2013

    Sport yes, but on drama,comedy and news....

    Ah yes: Tonight we start a new series of "American Dad" on Al-Beeb IV! It follows that other Al-Beeb classic "Family Guy"!

    I remember the saddos on HYS [many years back] proclaiming that Al-Beeb successes included:
    • The Simpsons
    • X-Files, and
    • 24
    .

    That really Foxed me; well, until they acclaimed "Heroes" as an exemplar. How 'SyFy' is that?

    Yes, Al-Beeb, total comedy....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Next said:

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    Immigration to solve an ageing population only makes it worse, as it would be a pyramid scheme with more ageing people needing more immigration.
    Quite.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,260
    edited October 2013
    Am I right in reading the populus tables correctly (table 3) am on my phone so is a bit squeezed.

    There's been a 3% movement from 2010 Con to Lab which Mike has identified above.

    But 3% of Lab's 2010 vote is planning to vote Con?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Why would anyone think the BBC is stuffed full of Guardian readers?

    Oh.....because it is:

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3458/exclusive_bbc_bias_exposed_as_newspaper_purchases_reveals_continued_guardian_bias
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013

    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!

    The evidence is the disproportionate number of Guardian copies - far in excess of what you'd expect from this minority-interest rag..

    However, as I said, it's not the main issue - the main issue is the staff. Odd, isn't it, that no-one (except, to his credit, Southam Observer) amongst on those on the left who deny the bias ever seems to want it to be checked out.

    But then, I suppose that's consistent with wanting constituency boundaries to be biased towards Labour as well. The harder it is for the Tories to get fair media coverage and fair boundaries, the better, eh?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    Next said:

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    Immigration to solve an ageing population only makes it worse, as it would be a pyramid scheme with more ageing people needing more immigration.
    Quite.
    Is it that difficult to have a nuanced position on this ?

    Yes we can have foreign workers coming in but only if they promise to be in work, claim no benefits and go home when they are 65...

    Why does a work permit have to equal lifelong citizenship ?


  • Pulpstar said:

    Ack Should have backed E/W - Nice tip anyway. Clearly was value.

    I thought about ew, but backed it to win in the end.

    The point about that sort of bet is that the horse could just as easily come last as first; an in-between run is unlikely. I thought it was fine performance. It traded as low as 2.5 in running. The winner is no slouch and we can confidently expect to see King Shabra featuring prominnetly in this year's staying handicap hurdles - but I doubt we'll see 20/1 again!

    I did however do the ew double, so eyes down for the 3.45!
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Plato

    And your solution is... What exactly? Perhaps the government could instead make raising kids cheaper but... Hang on... They've made it more expensive!
  • For 20 years I was a front man at the BBC, anchoring news and current ­affairs programmes, so I reckon nobody is better placed than me to ­answer the question that nags at many of its viewers — is the BBC biased?

    In my view, ‘bias’ is too blunt a word to describe the subtleties of the ­pervading culture. The better word is a ‘mindset’. At the core of the BBC, in its very DNA, is a way of thinking that is firmly of the Left.

    By far the most popular and widely read newspapers at the BBC are The Guardian and The Independent. ­Producers refer to them routinely for the line to take on ­running stories, and for inspiration on which items to cover. In the later stages of my career, I lost count of the number of times I asked a producer for a brief on a story, only to be handed a copy of The Guardian and told ‘it’s all in there’.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349506/Left-wing-bias-Its-written-BBCs-DNA-says-Peter-Sissons.html#ixzz2j1mP0Re4
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • I must declare an interest, I do spend a lot of my time, particularly, my lunch hours, with people who work for the BBC.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Any Tory on here care to tell me why the PPC for Brighton Pavilion Clarence Mitchell didn't open his mouth on this one before all those 30 coppers were dispatched by Dave?

    "Madeleine McCann Suspect E-Fit 'Produced By Former Spies In 2008 And Suppressed By Parents'"

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/27/madeleine-mccann-kate-gerry-mi5_n_4167645.html?utm_hp_ref=madeleine-mccann

    Probably as he was being paid by the McCanns.

    Yet again how the world of business operates passes you by...
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    Ofgem said average net margins more than doubled between October 2012 and October 2013 from £45 to £95 per household on a rolling month-on-month basis."

    http://news.sky.com/story/1160584/energy-bills-firms-faced-falling-costs

    And, guess what:

    Ofgem pointed out that wholesale costs were now rising for this current winter - by 8% for gas and 13% for electricity.

    I know it's a hopeless case, but I do despair when articles like that say: "The so-called big six companies collectively made profits of £3.7bn in 2012", without making even a token attempt to explore whether that is higher than you'd expect. (It isn't, BTW - If you look at the figures, there is no way on this earth that anyone could claim the companies are making excess profits.)
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!

    The evidence is the disproportionate number of Guardian copies - far in excess of what you'd expect from this minority-interest rag..

    However, as I said, it's not the main issue - the main issue is the staff. Odd, isn't it, that no-one (except, to his credit, Southam Observer) amongst on those on the left who deny the bias ever seems to want it to be checked out.

    But then, I suppose that's consistent with wanting constituency boundaries to be biased towards Labour as well. The harder it is for the Tories to get fair media coverage and fair boundaries, the better, eh?
    You are assuming that at the BBC staff buy just one newspaper which reflects their political views whereas the likelihiood is that people are buying more than one in order to get a more balanced view of affairs .
    I agree that constituency boundaries should not be biased towards either Labour or the Conservatives who at the last election got 47% of the seats for only 37% of the vote .
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2013
    Surely the debate on whether the BBC is biased is always going to be moot.

    If the tories put scrapping the license fee into the manifesto, proposing to relieve the overburdened squeezed voter of at least one fixed compulsory cost, would it be popular or not? Or is that one bill the poor squeezed middle is content to keep paying? Isn't that what Shapps was trying to find out?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:
    Hodges says: "The BBC can no longer compete financially. It has lost almost all its blue-chip sporting events. It lags miles behind its competitors in drama. In comedy. In 24-hour news."

    Sport yes, but on drama, comedy and news, is Hodges trying to tell us that Sky or ITV beat the BBC or does he mean he likes a couple of American and Scandinavian series and is extrapolating wildly from those?
    I think he is talking about HBO, FOX etc.

    Can you imagine the BBC making GoT ? Breaking Bad ? The Wire ? Lost ?

    Spooks and Dr Who are the only BBC dramas that have done eff all globally in recent years.

    Or Supernatural or Elementary or Once Upon a Time or Eureka or Hannibal or True Blood or Mad Men or White Collar or Suits or Big Bang Theory or NCIS or I can name dozens of excellent TV shows that eclipse the BBC's paltry output. None of these are big budget shows and ran from 30-200+ shows each. I'm not sure even Jonathan Overacted Creek managed 30 - how many has Cumberbatch Sherlock managed? 15?

    The biggest ratings BBC2 has got in years is Great British Bake Off FFS.

    When I watch Twitter comments - its all about XFactor, BGT, Dowton Abbey - they are on ITV.

    It reminds me of the NHS - we're forever being told its amazing but when you experience life elsewhere, the scales fall from ones eyes.
  • You are assuming that at the BBC staff buy just one newspaper which reflects their political views whereas the likelihiood is that people are buying more than one in order to get a more balanced view of affairs .

    No I'm not.

    So, do you support my suggestion that this whole argument should be put to rest by the BBC getting an independent survey done on the political balance of their news and current affairs staff?
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!

    The evidence is the disproportionate number of Guardian copies - far in excess of what you'd expect from this minority-interest rag..

    However, as I said, it's not the main issue - the main issue is the staff. Odd, isn't it, that no-one (except, to his credit, Southam Observer) amongst on those on the left who deny the bias ever seems to want it to be checked out.

    But then, I suppose that's consistent with wanting constituency boundaries to be biased towards Labour as well. The harder it is for the Tories to get fair media coverage and fair boundaries, the better, eh?
    The handful of BBC staff I know all have a visceral loathing of Murdoch and Sky closely followed by the DM. They all work in (or maybe drawn to might be more appropriate) news or overseas current affairs. Those who make Strictly I suspect aren't so political.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    edited October 2013

    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!

    The evidence is the disproportionate number of Guardian copies - far in excess of what you'd expect from this minority-interest rag..

    However, as I said, it's not the main issue - the main issue is the staff. Odd, isn't it, that no-one (except, to his credit, Southam Observer) amongst on those on the left who deny the bias ever seems to want it to be checked out.

    But then, I suppose that's consistent with wanting constituency boundaries to be biased towards Labour as well. The harder it is for the Tories to get fair media coverage and fair boundaries, the better, eh?
    You are assuming that at the BBC staff buy just one newspaper which reflects their political views whereas the likelihiood is that people are buying more than one in order to get a more balanced view of affairs .
    I agree that constituency boundaries should not be biased towards either Labour or the Conservatives who at the last election got 47% of the seats for only 37% of the vote .
    Is it even possible to draw up seats (Under FPTP) that are 'unbiased' to all 4 parties, factoring in say LD 15%, UKIP 10%, CON 33%, LAB 37% ? To give seats with the same distribution.. - I'm not sure it is.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Looking at the Labour target list adjusted according to the size of the LD vote:

    Number of Con seats won by Lab if a given percentage of LD voters switch to Lab with the Con vote remaining the same as 2010:

    5%: 8
    10%: 9
    15%: 18
    20%: 25
    25%: 28
    30%: 33
    35%: 39
    40%: 46
    45%: 52
    50%: 57
    55%: 61
    60%: 64
    65%: 67
    70%: 71

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dE0wZTMyZW1nYko1TE15MDVJVF8zYXc#gid=0
  • The BBC has faced criticism for casting a porn star in the Crimewatch reconstruction of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

    Mark Sloan, who has starred in a number of X-rated films including Tight Rider and Sherlock Bones, was cast as one of the friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night Madeleine went missing.

    Sloan, 44, who has taken part in previous Crimewatch reconstructions, said that working in the porn industry had helped to improve his acting.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/bbc-criticised-for-casting-porn-star-in-madeleine-mccann-crimewatch-reconstruction-8908816.html
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    You are assuming that at the BBC staff buy just one newspaper which reflects their political views whereas the likelihiood is that people are buying more than one in order to get a more balanced view of affairs .

    No I'm not.

    So, do you support my suggestion that this whole argument should be put to rest by the BBC getting an independent survey done on the political balance of their news and current affairs staff?
    Yes if the cost of the survey comes out of your pocket and not mine .
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Oh god, it's a PB Tory Beeb thread.

    Just lie back and think of Susanna
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited October 2013

    Topping: you say UKIP 3-5% tops. They got 3% last time, almost certainly with far fewer candidates. Are you saying you expect them to do worse?

    I'm pretty sure that UKIP fielded 530-odd candidates at GE2010. Not far fewer than Labour or Lib Dems.

    I do think UKIP will considerably increase their vote, but I don't think standing more candidates will be a big factor in that.

    Edit: 558 UKIP candidates, compared to 631 for Labour and Lib Dems (ie all excluding Northern Ireland and Speaker).
    UKIP saved 99 deposits at GE2010. It would be interesting if there was a betting market on how many deposits they will save at GE2015. Could they save more deposits than the Lib Dems?

    Financially it could make a large difference to UKIP. Lost deposits will have cost them more than £200,000 last time.

    Since Galloway's victory in the Bradford West by-election, UKIP have lost one deposit [Manchester Central], but the Lib Dems have lost three [Croydon North, Rotherham and South Shields].
  • Bobajob said:

    Oh god, it's a PB Tory Beeb thread.

    Just lie back and think of Susanna

    Behave you, I need people to stop thinking of Ms Reid, this is because of my strictly betting portfolio.

  • Yes if the cost of the survey comes out of your pocket and not mine .

    So you don't think it's important for the state-funded broadcaster to demonstrate that it's not politically biased.

    QED.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    People should be “enraged” that Welsh children are not getting the education they need to thrive in the 21st century and Government alone cannot create the transformation of the schools system the nation needs, one of Tony Blair’s former key aides has warned in a hard-hitting speech.

    Matthew Taylor, who was Labour’s director of policy during the 1997 election campaign, said improving education standards was “absolutely central” to the future of Wales and parents, employers and voluntary groups had to come together to play key roles in making this a reality.

    Stressing that improving education is the “business of the whole of Wales,” he said he wanted to see top-performing schools both helping and starting other schools. He is concerned that efforts to turn around pupil performance have focused on the roles of central and local government.

    Mr Taylor, who was Mr Blair’s chief adviser on political strategy and is now chief executive of the RSA, said: “Nobody, surely, seriously believes that Wales has got a long-term successful future unless it can transform the quality of education that is going on.

    "And we should surely be enraged that as we speak hundreds of thousands of children are not getting the education they need, which is going to enable them to live their lives fully and to have an opportunity to change the course of their life in positive kinds of ways...

    “Surely, surely, we need to see improving schools as being absolutely central to what we have to do for Wales to be successful.”

    http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/nobody-seriously-believes-wales-long-term-6246250
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Pulpstar said:

    So your evidence that the BBC is dominated by Guardian reading lefties is one where half the daily newspapers bought at the BBC are right wing newspapers !!

    The evidence is the disproportionate number of Guardian copies - far in excess of what you'd expect from this minority-interest rag..

    However, as I said, it's not the main issue - the main issue is the staff. Odd, isn't it, that no-one (except, to his credit, Southam Observer) amongst on those on the left who deny the bias ever seems to want it to be checked out.

    But then, I suppose that's consistent with wanting constituency boundaries to be biased towards Labour as well. The harder it is for the Tories to get fair media coverage and fair boundaries, the better, eh?
    You are assuming that at the BBC staff buy just one newspaper which reflects their political views whereas the likelihiood is that people are buying more than one in order to get a more balanced view of affairs .
    I agree that constituency boundaries should not be biased towards either Labour or the Conservatives who at the last election got 47% of the seats for only 37% of the vote .
    Is it even possible to draw up seats (Under FPTP) that are 'unbiased' to all 4 parties, factoring in say LD 15%, UKIP 10%, CON 33%, LAB 37% ? To give seats with the same distribution.. - I'm not sure it is.
    No of course it is not possible to do that with a FPTP system , one or more parties will always have a bias in their favour .
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699


    Yes if the cost of the survey comes out of your pocket and not mine .

    So you don't think it's important for the state-funded broadcaster to demonstrate that it's not politically biased.

    QED.
    Not very , because I do not believe it is .
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Bobajob said:

    Oh god, it's a PB Tory Beeb thread.

    Just lie back and think of Susanna

    Don't you think Ms Reid has been looking a little knackered on breakfast TV since she's been on Strictly? I'm not sure she'd be up for it.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mark Sloan? He was Dr Hunky in Gray's Anatomy :^ )

    The BBC has faced criticism for casting a porn star in the Crimewatch reconstruction of Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

    Mark Sloan, who has starred in a number of X-rated films including Tight Rider and Sherlock Bones, was cast as one of the friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night Madeleine went missing.

    Sloan, 44, who has taken part in previous Crimewatch reconstructions, said that working in the porn industry had helped to improve his acting.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/bbc-criticised-for-casting-porn-star-in-madeleine-mccann-crimewatch-reconstruction-8908816.html

  • Results from the Seant's most beloved "Italian" place...South Tyrol

    Turnout 79.7%

    Südtiroler Volkspartei 45.7% (48.1% in 2008)
    Die Freiheitlichen 17.9% (14.3)
    Greens 8.7% (5.8)
    Süd-Tiroler Freiheit 7.2% (4.9)
    PD 6.7% (6)
    Forza Alto Adige - Lega Nord 2.5% (8.3 PDL+2.1 Lega)
    5 Stars 2.5%
    Ladins Dolomites 2.1% (1.1)
    L’Alto Adige nel cuore 2.1%
    Unitalia Movimento per l’Alto Adige 1.7%
    Civic Choice 1.6% (UDC 1.2)
    The Right 0.6%
    Communist Refoundation 0.4% (0.7)
    Südtirolish Communists 0.3% (0.4)

    As it's pure PR...seats

    SVP 17 (-1)
    Freiheitlichen 6 (+1)
    Greens 3 (+1)
    Süd-Tiroler Freiheit 3 (+1)
    PD 2(=)
    Forza Alto Adige - Lega 1 (-3)
    5 Stars 1
    Ladins 1 (+1)
    Alto Adige nel Cuore 1


    Trento provincial elections...

    523 polling stations reported out of 528

    Candidates for presidency

    Center-Left candidate (PD-PATT-UPT) 58.15%
    Independent/Local lists 19.22%
    Lega 6.59%
    5 Stars 5.72%
    Berlusconi's Forza Trentino 4.28%
    SEL (Left) 1.78%
    Brothers of Italy (right) 1.54%
    Communists 1.14%
    3 other candidates below 1%
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,829
    Next said:

    AndyJS said:

    Decided to listen to the recent Moral Maze programme on migration and was a bit taken aback that all four panellists on the show were in favour of open borders to varying degrees. I thought Grant Shapps was a bit unfair yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased but this is the sort of thing that would tend to support his view:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03cnjpj

    With an ageing population immigration is vital for our economy. Period.

    Immigration to solve an ageing population only makes it worse, as it would be a pyramid scheme with more ageing people needing more immigration.
    Well actually, that's simplistic. If Poles come here to work, and then return to Poland, then that doesn't worsen our demographics at all.

    Likewise, if people come here to work, and have a birth-rate nearer to replacement rate (2.1) than the indigenous population, then it also clearly doesn't worsen the situation.

    That said, the most important issue is to accept that as - since 1840 - life expectancy has been rising at between three and four months a year, every year. We therefore need to move the retirement and pension age up at that rate. We also need to introduce - as in Australia - compulsory saving.
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