The Welsh are still the world's best at whining, though, so there's always that?
The whimpering Sean Thomas speaks.
Who can ever forget his mewling, panic-stricken posts when he thought a few days before SIndy that the Scots would leave. One of the highlights of pb.com.
I think I slightly prefer Whimpering Thomas to Blustering Thomas.
lol.
Actually, having re-read your post, I think you kind of have a point. but your hatred of the Saxons leads you into hyperbole and absurdity.
If we're comparing regions of the UK to various nations, shouldn't we compare regions of those nations as well? Are all regions of Slovenia growing?
Slovenia’s too small to have regions really. It’s only 2m to Yorkshire’s 5m.
And Yorkshire is no means the worst.
If Wales were independent it would be one of the poorest countries in the EU.
So would East Germany or southern Italy.
All East German lander are now streets ahead of Wales and the poorer English regions. Despite enduring nearly 50 years of Communism.
You are right about the Mezzogiorno, but one would hope we had slightly higher aspirations in this country.
You seem to hate this country.
A ridiculous non sequitur there. Entirely in character of course.
I’m sorry, who are you?
Apology accepted. I’m Streeter, your reading skills seem a little off this evening.
You don’t get to come on here as a rookie and tell me what’s “in character” or not until you’ve been here for a sufficient period time to earn enough respect to do it.
Cheeky little dickhead.
Why don’t you go back to New Zealand if you don’t like it here so much?
You never have a good word to say about it.
“Why don’t you go back to New Zealand if you don’t like it here so much?”
I’ll just leave this comment here to fester a bit. You’re nothing but a bully.
Not in the slightest. You just seem very unhappy here and don’t seem to have any good words to say about it.
I think we can now say with a fair amount of certainty that Jeremy Corbyn will never be Prime Minister. This is very good news. The only downside is that a hopeless, clueless, divided, disastrous Conservative government will be running England for the forseeable future. Our Celtic cousins have other chouces. Lucky them.
I think you're misunderestimating the damage sustained No Deal will do the Tories.
It’ll hit Labour too. The far left have bolloxed up big time. Good.
These are shit numbers for TIG and the LDs to be honest.
It's a bizarre poll, and probably one to be ignored, even if I would like it to be true. I don't see how the Tories can have GAINED from a split in both main parties.
If we're comparing regions of the UK to various nations, shouldn't we compare regions of those nations as well? Are all regions of Slovenia growing?
Slovenia’s too small to have regions really. It’s only 2m to Yorkshire’s 5m.
And Yorkshire is no means the worst.
If Wales were independent it would be one of the poorest countries in the EU.
Italy.
in this country.
You seem to hate this country.
A ridiculous non sequitur there. Entirely in character of course.
I’m sorry, who are you?
Apology accepted. I’m Streeter, your reading skills seem a little off this evening.
Yep, you’re a brand new poster here of barely a month.
I’ve been posting here for well over 14 years, since a few months just after the site began, have written thread headers, posted a variety of tips over a number of election cycles and contributed to thousands of discussions. I know most of my fellow regular posters, most in person.
You don’t get to come on here as a rookie and tell me what’s “in character” or not until you’ve been here for a sufficient period time to earn enough respect to do it.
Cheeky little dickhead.
Yep, pomposity is one of your defining characteristics.
FWIW I lurked on and off here for years before posting. PB is a friendly place, but it can sometimes feel quite closed off and intimidating, belonging to people who've been posting here for years.
That’s fine, and I understand that. I’m happy to make any new poster feel welcome and, indeed, I’d encourage as many people to delurk as possible.
But, it’s a bit much for a brand new poster I’ve never heard of who’s only been here for a few weeks to tell me what’s in “(my) character”, or not, in their very first reply to me.
The Welsh are still the world's best at whining, though, so there's always that?
The whimpering Sean Thomas speaks.
Who can ever forget his mewling, panic-stricken posts when he thought a few days before SIndy that the Scots would leave. One of the highlights of pb.com.
I think I slightly prefer Whimpering Thomas to Blustering Thomas.
lol.
Actually, having re-read your post, I think you kind of have a point. but your hatred of the Saxons leads you into hyperbole and absurdity.
But, I don't hate the Saxons.
There is only people responsible for the dismal state of Wales.
If we're comparing regions of the UK to various nations, shouldn't we compare regions of those nations as well? Are all regions of Slovenia growing?
Slovenia’s too small to have regions really. It’s only 2m to Yorkshire’s 5m.
And Yorkshire is no means the worst.
If Wales were independent it would be one of the poorest countries in the EU.
Italy.
in this country.
You seem to hate this country.
A ridiculous non sequitur there. Entirely in character of course.
I’m sorry, who are you?
Apology accepted. I’m Streeter, your reading skills seem a little off this evening.
Yep, you’re a brand new poster here o
You don’t get to come on here as a rookie and tell me what’s “in character” or not until you’ve been here for a sufficient period time to earn enough respect to do it.
Cheeky little dickhead.
Yep, pomposity is one of your defining characteristics.
FWIW I lurked on and off here for years before posting. PB is a friendly place, but it can sometimes feel quite closed off and intimidating, belonging to people who've been posting here for years.
That’s fine, and I understand that. I’m happy to make any new poster feel welcome and, indeed, I’d encourage as many people to delurk as possible.
But, it’s a bit much for a brand new poster I’ve never heard of who’s only been here for a few weeks to tell me what’s in “(my) character”, or not, in their very first reply to me.
Perhaps he was a “long time listener, first time caller”. He certainly had you bang to rights.
These are shit numbers for TIG and the LDs to be honest.
It's a bizarre poll, and probably one to be ignored, even i would like it to be true. I don't see how the Tories can have GAINED from a split in both main parties.
I'm calling it. Rogue.
Because TIG looks like a People's front of vs Judean people's front to an outside observer.
There will be some Labourites who have defected to the Tiggers. A few more will have decided to stay at home. One or two JAM types may have said "screw this, at least the Tories look united and strong government is what I like".
But there will have been no movement from the other side. There are very few Tory remainers left, fewer still who will desert the party now.
And the Tiggers at present look like a Labourite sack-ferret combo. The non-partisan electorate don't like split parties. Why wouldn't the Tories gain from a split?
Seasoned PBers will understand why I refuse to get into a statistical argument with you.
(If anyone else is interested, I just ask you to look at the figures and make your own judgment).
I've just downloaded the data from Wikipedaia and spent a happy half an hour wading through it. My observations:
- Slovenia has two regions (East and West) of roughly equal size. West Slovenia is richer (using GDP per capita) than 28 of the UK's 40 regions, comprising 44m out of the UK's 65m inhabitants and including all of Yorkshire and Wales. East Slovenia is equal with West Wales and the Valleys, one of Wales' two regions, and the UK's poorest region. They are well behind the four Yorkshire regions.
- On Germany, the top end of a combined list of regions is dominated by Germany (6 of the top 10, but also 23 of the top 30). This includes some fairly large cities (Stuttgart, Cologne, Dusseldorf) - in contrast, the UK's top end is London plus lots of rural areas (Cheshire and the Home counties, mostly - plus NE Scotland for some reason). I suspect there are differences in how we allocate regions that are impacting the analysis, but probably not materially enough to impact the overall picture.
- The bottom end of the list is UK dominated, with the poorest 13 all in the UK, including West Wales and South and East Yorkshire. North and West Yorkshire are richer than 4 German regions comprising 7m people.
- Italy: there are four Italian regions (Puglia, Sicily, Calabria and Campania) poorer than West Wales, comprising 17m people.
- Overall, there are 58 regions in the EU poorer than West Wales (the poorer half), with 100m people living in them. This includes 8.4m in Andalucia (Spain), almost all of Portugal, Croatia and Romania, most of Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria, and about a third of Czechia.
In conclusion, HYUFD is almost certainly right about Slovenia (subject to some caveats on the data etc), on balance wrong on Germany, and by no means is it true that Wales would be among the poorest countries in the EU.
If we're comparing regions of the UK to various nations, shouldn't we compare regions of those nations as well? Are all regions of Slovenia growing?
Slovenia’s too small to have regions really. It’s only 2m to Yorkshire’s 5m.
And Yorkshire is no means the worst.
If Wales were independent it would be one of the poorest countries in the EU.
Italy.
in this country.
You seem to hate this country.
A ridiculous non sequitur there. Entirely in character of course.
I’m sorry, who are you?
Apology accepted. I’m Streeter, your reading skills seem a little off this evening.
Yep, you’re a brand new poster here o
You don’t get to come on here as a rookie and tell me what’s “in character” or not until you’ve been here for a sufficient period time to earn enough respect to do it.
Cheeky little dickhead.
Yep, pomposity is one of your defining characteristics.
FWIW I lurked on and off here for years before posting. PB is a friendly place, but it can sometimes feel quite closed off and intimidating, belonging to people who've been posting here for years.
That’s fine, and I understand that. I’m happy to make any new poster feel welcome and, indeed, I’d encourage as many people to delurk as possible.
But, it’s a bit much for a brand new poster I’ve never heard of who’s only been here for a few weeks to tell me what’s in “(my) character”, or not, in their very first reply to me.
Perhaps he was a “long time listener, first time caller”. He certainly had you bang to rights.
Yup, quite possible. I lurked daily on every thread for a couple of years before I posted anything. Sometimes you feel you know people even when they don't know you yet.
PB is awesome, but it can feel very much a locals' pub...
These are shit numbers for TIG and the LDs to be honest.
It's a bizarre poll, and probably one to be ignored, even i would like it to be true. I don't see how the Tories can have GAINED from a split in both main parties.
I'm calling it. Rogue.
Because TIG looks like a People's front of vs Judean people's front to an outside observer.
There will be some Labourites who have defected to the Tiggers. A few more will have decided to stay at home. One or two JAM types may have said "screw this, at least the Tories look united and strong government is what I like".
But there will have been no movement from the other side. There are very few Tory remainers left, fewer still who will desert the party now.
And the Tiggers at present look like a Labourite sack-ferret combo. The non-partisan electorate don't like split parties. Why wouldn't the Tories gain from a split?
I doubt there are many people who believe the Tories are united.
I won’t be voting Labour again till Corbyn goes and have spoken to quite a few friends , staunch Labour normally but feel the same way.
It’s a culmination of factors , the final straw being the fence sitting on a second vote .
I am genuinely amazed (albeit not surprised) that Labour think their position on Brexit in terms of dodging coming out a public vote is a politically good one. How to wildly annoy most of your core supporters, likely mid ground voters - and members - and very little to no benefit from leavers (based on their stated policy). Madness. At least it means the end of Corbyn. All trust gone now whatever happens it feels like.
These are shit numbers for TIG and the LDs to be honest.
It's a bizarre poll, and probably one to be ignored, even i would like it to be true. I don't see how the Tories can have GAINED from a split in both main parties.
I'm calling it. Rogue.
Because TIG looks like a People's front of vs Judean people's front to an outside observer.
There will be some Labourites who have defected to the Tiggers. A few more will have decided to stay at home. One or two JAM types may have said "screw this, at least the Tories look united and strong government is what I like".
But there will have been no movement from the other side. There are very few Tory remainers left, fewer still who will desert the party now.
And the Tiggers at present look like a Labourite sack-ferret combo. The non-partisan electorate don't like split parties. Why wouldn't the Tories gain from a split?
I doubt there are many people who believe the Tories are united.
True, but at least they're united under one party. Suddenly if you voted Labour in 2015/2017 you have two choices to make when opinion polled. If you voted Tory whether you're an ERGer or a soft remainer, assuming you haven't defected yet, you still only have one choice.
It’s 10% for others in that poll. Is that high? Seems to imply a very high score for the SNP.
Has the left coalition fallen apart? Despite the ineptness in government and opposition they have still both taken 80% of voting intention between them for two years. 32% is especially grim for labour.
Seasoned PBers will understand why I refuse to get into a statistical argument with you.
(If anyone else is interested, I just ask you to look at the figures and make your own judgment).
I've just downloaded the data from Wikipedaia and spent a happy half an hour wading through it. My observations:
- Slovenia has two regions (East and West) of roughly equal size. West Slovenia is richer (using GDP per capita) than 28 of the UK's 40 regions, comprising 44m out of the UK's 65m inhabitants and including all of Yorkshire and Wales. East Slovenia is equal with West Wales and the Valleys, one of Wales' two regions, and the UK's poorest region. They are well behind the four Yorkshire regions.
- On Germany, the top end of a combined list of regions is dominated by Germany (6 of the top 10, but also 23 of the top 30). This includes some fairly large cities (Stuttgart, Cologne, Dusseldorf) - in contrast, the UK's top end is London plus lots of rural areas (Cheshire and the Home counties, mostly - plus NE Scotland for some reason). I suspect there are differences in how we allocate regions that are impacting the analysis, but probably not materially enough to impact the overall picture.
- The bottom end of the list is UK dominated, with the poorest 13 all in the UK, including West Wales and South and East Yorkshire. North and West Yorkshire are richer than 4 German regions comprising 7m people.
- Italy: there are four Italian regions (Puglia, Sicily, Calabria and Campania) poorer than West Wales, comprising 17m people.
- Overall, there are 58 regions in the EU poorer than West Wales (the poorer half), with 100m people living in them. This includes 8.4m in Andalucia (Spain), almost all of Portugal, Croatia and Romania, most of Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria, and about a third of Czechia.
In conclusion, HYUFD is almost certainly right about Slovenia (subject to some caveats on the data etc), on balance wrong on Germany, and by no means is it true that Wales would be among the poorest countries in the EU.
Interesting, isn’t it?
But, you have to do the analysis as if “Wales” was a country, that was my point.
Wales is poorer than Slovenia (probably, since the data only goes to 2016), and I think is poorer than all but 5 countries.
And, I think if you look again, you’ll see it is poorer than all East German Lander (but - to be sure - not necessarily subdivisions within the Lander).
If we're comparing regions of the UK to various nations, shouldn't we compare regions of those nations as well? Are all regions of Slovenia growing?
Slovenia’s too small to have regions really. It’s only 2m to Yorkshire’s 5m.
And Yorkshire is no means the worst.
If Wales were independent it would be one of the poorest countries in the EU.
Italy.
in this country.
You seem to hate this country.
A ridiculous non sequitur there. Entirely in character of course.
I’m sorry, who are you?
Apology accepted. I’m Streeter, your reading skills seem a little off this evening.
Yep, you’re a brand new poster here o
You don’t get to come on here as a rookie and tell me what’s “in character” or not until you’ve been here for a sufficient period time to earn enough respect to do it.
Cheeky little dickhead.
Yep, pomposity is one of your defining characteristics.
FWIW I lurked on and off here for years before posting. PB is a friendly place, but it can sometimes feel quite closed off and intimidating, belonging to people who've been posting here for years.
That’s fine, and I understand that. I’m happy to make any new poster feel welcome and, indeed, I’d encourage as many people to delurk as possible.
But, it’s a bit much for a brand new poster I’ve never heard of who’s only been here for a few weeks to tell me what’s in “(my) character”, or not, in their very first reply to me.
Perhaps he was a “long time listener, first time caller”. He certainly had you bang to rights.
Nope. You’re just someone who can’t bear to be called out.
I won’t be voting Labour again till Corbyn goes and have spoken to quite a few friends , staunch Labour normally but feel the same way.
It’s a culmination of factors , the final straw being the fence sitting on a second vote .
I am genuinely amazed (albeit not surprised) that Labour think their position on Brexit in terms of dodging coming out a public vote is a politically good one. How to wildly annoy most of your core supporters, likely mid ground voters - and members - and very little to no benefit from leavers (based on their stated policy). Madness. At least it means the end of Corbyn. All trust gone now whatever happens it feels like.
Corbyn has calculated that remainers have nowhere else to go. It appears that will be fully tested if he does not switch soon.
At the risk of reading too much into one poll, it's possible that losing ardent Remainers makes the Tories look a safer bet for hard Leavers, while their remaining Remain support is sticking to May in the hope that her deal passes.
Comments
Actually, having re-read your post, I think you kind of have a point. but your hatred of the Saxons leads you into hyperbole and absurdity.
So, why stay?
I'm calling it. Rogue.
But, it’s a bit much for a brand new poster I’ve never heard of who’s only been here for a few weeks to tell me what’s in “(my) character”, or not, in their very first reply to me.
There is only people responsible for the dismal state of Wales.
It is the Welsh.
There will be some Labourites who have defected to the Tiggers. A few more will have decided to stay at home. One or two JAM types may have said "screw this, at least the Tories look united and strong government is what I like".
But there will have been no movement from the other side. There are very few Tory remainers left, fewer still who will desert the party now.
And the Tiggers at present look like a Labourite sack-ferret combo. The non-partisan electorate don't like split parties. Why wouldn't the Tories gain from a split?
- Slovenia has two regions (East and West) of roughly equal size. West Slovenia is richer (using GDP per capita) than 28 of the UK's 40 regions, comprising 44m out of the UK's 65m inhabitants and including all of Yorkshire and Wales. East Slovenia is equal with West Wales and the Valleys, one of Wales' two regions, and the UK's poorest region. They are well behind the four Yorkshire regions.
- On Germany, the top end of a combined list of regions is dominated by Germany (6 of the top 10, but also 23 of the top 30). This includes some fairly large cities (Stuttgart, Cologne, Dusseldorf) - in contrast, the UK's top end is London plus lots of rural areas (Cheshire and the Home counties, mostly - plus NE Scotland for some reason). I suspect there are differences in how we allocate regions that are impacting the analysis, but probably not materially enough to impact the overall picture.
- The bottom end of the list is UK dominated, with the poorest 13 all in the UK, including West Wales and South and East Yorkshire. North and West Yorkshire are richer than 4 German regions comprising 7m people.
- Italy: there are four Italian regions (Puglia, Sicily, Calabria and Campania) poorer than West Wales, comprising 17m people.
- Overall, there are 58 regions in the EU poorer than West Wales (the poorer half), with 100m people living in them. This includes 8.4m in Andalucia (Spain), almost all of Portugal, Croatia and Romania, most of Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria, and about a third of Czechia.
In conclusion, HYUFD is almost certainly right about Slovenia (subject to some caveats on the data etc), on balance wrong on Germany, and by no means is it true that Wales would be among the poorest countries in the EU.
It’s a culmination of factors , the final straw being the fence sitting on a second vote .
PB is awesome, but it can feel very much a locals' pub...
NEW THREAD
But, you have to do the analysis as if “Wales” was a country, that was my point.
Wales is poorer than Slovenia (probably, since the data only goes to 2016), and I think is poorer than all but 5 countries.
And, I think if you look again, you’ll see it is poorer than all East German Lander (but - to be sure - not necessarily subdivisions within the Lander).
Sadly, we’ve all seen you’re true colours tonight.
So you do, and create a straw man to help you whilst you’re at it too.
Sad.
Dire poll for the Centrists.