Yeah, it is pretty bad, but unfortunately that's where we are at the extreme edges of the debate. For example, treason accusations from one band of maniacs, lauding the demise of pensioners from the other.
I'm not sure if it's a case of society getting coarser and more polarised, or of anti-social media pouring kerosene on the fire. Most likely one feeding off the other.
It's looking more and more like the polarisation is the young despising the old (believing them rightly or wrongly having thrown away their (the young's) future and squandered resources on themselves) and the old dismissing the young as being immature and irrelevant.
I know those drivers have always existed, but they seem far, far stronger today than ever before. If Brexit turns out to be even a quarter as badly damaging as has been feared, the attitudes will solidify into concrete: the young will regard it as vindication of their belief and won't forgive; the old will regard it as having been the right but difficult choice, damaged by a stab-in-the-back from [insert here].
And given that both "sides" had plenty who went in the other direction and would be unfairly tarnished whatever happens, resentment would only ever spread wider.
how are the young planning to stay ypung ? Im afraid life only goes in one direction and age shapes your views as you go.
There are cohort opinions and age opinions. Please read "Millennials and the following generation" for "the young", and "Baby boomers and the generation before" for "the old." After all, the Baby-boomers-and-older will have ensured that the Millennials-and-younger will certainly not have similar experiences and options to themselves.
Once people have decided on a scapegoat, it's hard for their opinions to change.
(As Generation X, I'm caught in the middle here)
OTOH, 765,000 have become first time buyers over the past couple of years, and once you become a property owner, it becomes harder to sustain the view that you're being given a hard time by society.
If you listen to the WATO, you will hear what other countries think of us, and they think we are behaving in an absurd and childish and incomprehensible way. They are also saying that we are less important, both to the EU and to the rest of the world, than we think we are, that the world is not waiting for Britain to bestride the world again, that the EU has already internalised Britain's departure and the costs of its departure, just want us to get on with it and are waiting for us to make up our mind.
I suppose it's fascinating - if utterly depressing - to be in the middle of a country having a nervous breakdown.
...but surely, if the Brexiters are right, they need us more than we need them?
The Brexiteers - the ultras - are delusional. Their understanding of geopolitics seems stuck somewhere around 1815 shortly after the battle of Waterloo.
Waterloo being a classic of European joint military capability, Even without Blucher's Prussians. Wellingtons troops were British, Dutch, Germans and even Bourbon French cavalry, united in one command structure.
I'd recommend Bernard Cornwell's account of the Battle of Waterloo. I've never read anything that explains it all so clearly.
Unlike a lot of British authors, he doesn't underrate Napoleon. Despite being hugely outnumbered, Napoleon won three out of the four battles of the campaign, and only lost the last by a hairs-breadth. His mistakes (and Wellington's and Blucher's) were down to the lack of information caused by the primitive communications of the time.
In a little quirk of fate, that battle was quite important to my family.
An officer in the Black Watch suffered an injury in a delicate area, during the battle. This unfortunately rendered him infertile, so he doted on a small son of one of his crofters, funding his education, including Aberdeen University. He treated him like an adopted son. That boy became a Presbyterian Minister and missionary, later an author, travelling the world on his missions. The boy was the first educated boy in the family, and became head of a middle class dynasty of the manse. He was my great-grandfather.
If that shrapnel had been 12 inches higher it would have killed him, 12 inches lower, he would most likely have had his own family. How randomly our lives are sometimes determined!
I love this line - "the British political class has offered to the world an astounding spectacle of mendacious, intellectually limited hustlers."
Fuck me, but this is a brutal assessment of our ruling class. A sad reminder of what a brilliant job we did of shrugging off our colonial past when we joined the EU, and - far from queuing up to sign trade deals - there are plenty of countries out there who would gladly give the old colonial masters a bloody nose if the opportunity arises...
Yeah, it is pretty bad, but unfortunately that's where we are at the extreme edges of the debate. For example, treason accusations from one band of maniacs, lauding the demise of pensioners from the other.
I'm not sure if it's a case of society getting coarser and more polarised, or of anti-social media pouring kerosene on the fire. Most likely one feeding off the other.
It's looking more and more like the polarisation is the young despising the old (believing them rightly or wrongly having thrown away their (the young's) future and squandered resources on themselves) and the old dismissing the young as being immature and irrelevant.
I know those drivers have always existed, but they seem far, far stronger today than ever before. If Brexit turns out to be even a quarter as badly damaging as has been feared, the attitudes will solidify into concrete: the young will regard it as vindication of their belief and won't forgive; the old will regard it as having been the right but difficult choice, damaged by a stab-in-the-back from [insert here].
And given that both "sides" had plenty who went in the other direction and would be unfairly tarnished whatever happens, resentment would only ever spread wider.
how are the young planning to stay ypung ? Im afraid life only goes in one direction and age shapes your views as you go.
There are cohort opinions and age opinions. Please read "Millennials and the following generation" for "the young", and "Baby boomers and the generation before" for "the old." After all, the Baby-boomers-and-older will have ensured that the Millennials-and-younger will certainly not have similar experiences and options to themselves.
Once people have decided on a scapegoat, it's hard for their opinions to change.
(As Generation X, I'm caught in the middle here)
OTOH, 765,000 have become first time buyers over the past couple of years, and once you become a property owner, it becomes harder to sustain the view that you're being given a hard time by society.
You're more optimistic than me, then - I've met a lot of people with loads (from all ages) who can very easily sustain the "I'm hard done by" philosophy.
Yeah, it is pretty bad, but unfortunately that's where we are at the extreme edges of the debate. For example, treason accusations from one band of maniacs, lauding the demise of pensioners from the other.
I'm not sure if it's a case of society getting coarser and more polarised, or of anti-social media pouring kerosene on the fire. Most likely one feeding off the other.
It's looking more and more like the polarisation is the young despising the old (believing them rightly or wrongly having thrown away their (the young's) future and squandered resources on themselves) and the old dismissing the young as being immature and irrelevant.
I know those drivers have always existed, but they seem far, far stronger today than ever before. If Brexit turns out to be even a quarter as badly damaging as has been feared, the attitudes will solidify into concrete: the young will regard it as vindication of their belief and won't forgive; the old will regard it as having been the right but difficult choice, damaged by a stab-in-the-back from [insert here].
And given that both "sides" had plenty who went in the other direction and would be unfairly tarnished whatever happens, resentment would only ever spread wider.
how are the young planning to stay ypung ? Im afraid life only goes in one direction and age shapes your views as you go.
There are cohort opinions and age opinions. Please read "Millennials and the following generation" for "the young", and "Baby boomers and the generation before" for "the old." After all, the Baby-boomers-and-older will have ensured that the Millennials-and-younger will certainly not have similar experiences and options to themselves.
Once people have decided on a scapegoat, it's hard for their opinions to change.
(As Generation X, I'm caught in the middle here)
OTOH, 765,000 have become first time buyers over the past couple of years, and once you become a property owner, it becomes harder to sustain the view that you're being given a hard time by society.
You're more optimistic than me, then - I've met a lot of people with loads (from all ages) who can very easily sustain the "I'm hard done by" philosophy.
+1. Back in the early 1990's there were a lot of people who had been encouraged to buy a house back in 1987-88 who were very unhappy with their lot as negative equity hit.
Yeah, it is pretty bad, but unfortunately that's where we are at the extreme edges of the debate. For example, treason accusations from one band of maniacs, lauding the demise of pensioners from the other.
I'm not sure if it's a case of society getting coarser and more polarised, or of anti-social media pouring kerosene on the fire. Most likely one feeding off the other.
It's looking more and more like the polarisation is the young despising the old (believing them rightly or wrongly having thrown away their (the young's) future and squandered resources on themselves) and the old dismissing the young as being immature and irrelevant.
I know those drivers have always existed, but they seem far, far stronger today than ever before. If Brexit turns out to be even a quarter as badly damaging as has been feared, the attitudes will solidify into concrete: the young will regard it as vindication of their belief and won't forgive; the old will regard it as having been the right but difficult choice, damaged by a stab-in-the-back from [insert here].
And given that both "sides" had plenty who went in the other direction and would be unfairly tarnished whatever happens, resentment would only ever spread wider.
how are the young planning to stay ypung ? Im afraid life only goes in one direction and age shapes your views as you go.
There are cohort opinions and age opinions. Please read "Millennials and the following generation" for "the young", and "Baby boomers and the generation before" for "the old." After all, the Baby-boomers-and-older will have ensured that the Millennials-and-younger will certainly not have similar experiences and options to themselves.
Once people have decided on a scapegoat, it's hard for their opinions to change.
(As Generation X, I'm caught in the middle here)
OTOH, 765,000 have become first time buyers over the past couple of years, and once you become a property owner, it becomes harder to sustain the view that you're being given a hard time by society.
You're more optimistic than me, then - I've met a lot of people with loads (from all ages) who can very easily sustain the "I'm hard done by" philosophy.
+1. Back in the early 1990's there were a lot of people who had been encouraged to buy a house back in 1987-88 who were very unhappy with their lot as negative equity hit.
It's looking more and more like the polarisation is the young despising the old (believing them rightly or wrongly having thrown away their (the young's) future and squandered resources on themselves) and the old dismissing the young as being immature and irrelevant.
I know those drivers have always existed, but they seem far, far stronger today than ever before. If Brexit turns out to be even a quarter as badly damaging as has been feared, the attitudes will solidify into concrete: the young will regard it as vindication of their belief and won't forgive; the old will regard it as having been the right but difficult choice, damaged by a stab-in-the-back from [insert here].
And given that both "sides" had plenty who went in the other direction and would be unfairly tarnished whatever happens, resentment would only ever spread wider.
how are the young planning to stay ypung ? Im afraid life only goes in one direction and age shapes your views as you go.
There are cohort opinions and age opinions. Please read "Millennials and the following generation" for "the young", and "Baby boomers and the generation before" for "the old." After all, the Baby-boomers-and-older will have ensured that the Millennials-and-younger will certainly not have similar experiences and options to themselves.
Once people have decided on a scapegoat, it's hard for their opinions to change.
(As Generation X, I'm caught in the middle here)
OTOH, 765,000 have become first time buyers over the past couple of years, and once you become a property owner, it becomes harder to sustain the view that you're being given a hard time by society.
You're more optimistic than me, then - I've met a lot of people with loads (from all ages) who can very easily sustain the "I'm hard done by" philosophy.
+1. Back in the early 1990's there were a lot of people who had been encouraged to buy a house back in 1987-88 who were very unhappy with their lot as negative equity hit.
How are they feeling now?
At least one (my sister) traded up during the next boom and is now trapped on a bad variable rate due to the new rules since the GFC (her mortgage would be significantly more affordable on an offer rate; she's ineligible for those rates on the grounds of affordability). Fair to say she's not feeling sunny.
I know I did nothing in 2016 in a spirit of complacency but if we got ref 2 I would campaign like my life depended on it and I suspect I am not alone. I think the fact that Leave camp argue vehemently against a ref 2 means they share the same the same thoughts. The "it would make a divided country more divided argument" means nothing to leave. The argument is designed for Cummings 1/3 swing voters.
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