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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After Thursday’s Alastair Meeks 2019 predictions David Herdson

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  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    It needs to be repeated, Brexit has made too many people on here absolutely Batshit Crazy. You find offence and malice in every post, and resort to name calling and self righteous outrage at every opportunity and this happens on both sides. A lot of the time the site isn't worth reading much past the header, which is a damn shame as it has been the first place I look at most mornings for many years.
    Luckily, I don't believe the country is as riven as this place, because if it is we're even more fucked than I thought we were!

    My wife, my father, my brother, my sister-in law all voted Remain, and about a third of my friends voted Remain, but we are still on good terms. Anecdote only, but I expect that's fairly common.

    Social media magnifies every division, and destroys nuance. Imagine if we'd had social media, in the Seventies or the Miners' Strike. One would have thought we were on the point of civil war.
    Seriously amazed that two thirds of your friends voted Leave. To my knowledge of friends relatives and work colleagues I'm pretty sure none have voted Leave.
    Or they didn't tell you :p
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited December 2018
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Grieve amendment sees EUref2 and Norway Plus voted down by more than the Deal that helps the Deal become the last route to avoid No Deal

    That is what I am expecting will happen.

    But what about the (to me) billion euro question, can an alternative to the Deal be forced upon the PM by parliament?
    No in reality. However as I think there are more votes still for the Deal than either EUref2 or Norway Plus in the Commons given 2/3 of Tory MPs back the former but not the latter and the ERG oppose both and Corbynites also oppose both and many Labour MPs in Leave seats oppose the latter too that should not be an issue
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    It needs to be repeated, Brexit has made too many people on here absolutely Batshit Crazy. You find offence and malice in every post, and resort to name calling and self righteous outrage at every opportunity and this happens on both sides. A lot of the time the site isn't worth reading much past the header, which is a damn shame as it has been the first place I look at most mornings for many years.
    Luckily, I don't believe the country is as riven as this place, because if it is we're even more fucked than I thought we were!

    My wife, my father, my brother, my sister-in law all voted Remain, and about a third of my friends voted Remain, but we are still on good terms. Anecdote only, but I expect that's fairly common.

    Social media magnifies every division, and destroys nuance. Imagine if we'd had social media, in the Seventies or the Miners' Strike. One would have thought we were on the point of civil war.
    Seriously amazed that two thirds of your friends voted Leave. To my knowledge of friends relatives and work colleagues I'm pretty sure none have voted Leave.
    Most of my friends are middle aged right wing professionals. It's unsurprising that two thirds should vote Leave.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited December 2018
    In my circles, admitting to Leave is akin to admitting to a mental and moral lapse, like a bout of petty theft.

    The correct response is no longer anger, but pity, as one pities those on the receipt of phishing scams.

    Everyone is bored of Brexit of course, but one supposes World War II was rather boring on occasion. I don’t really detect any softening in attitudes if you really probe for an opinion.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    In the EU:

    In many countries, you will need to carry your registration certificate and national identity card or passport at all times. If you leave them at home, you may be fined but cannot be expelled just for this.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    Are we proposing the same?

    Got a severe lecture last year in Thailand for not carrying either my passport or a photocopy. Up until then my driving licence had always been acceptable as ID.
    My first greeting in France as I walked to the Metro at Gare du Nord was a Gendarme demanding 'Carte d'Identite?'
    He would recognise a Tory Dame a mile away
  • felix said:



    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Yes, it does look as if my German sister in law, resident in UK for 30 years and mother of 3 UK citizens has to apply for residence, or risk being an illegal on 1 Jan 2021 even under the WA. I can see that it is going to be another Windrush as the Home Office has to successfully process 4000 applications per day over that period.

    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter of a century before freedom of movement) either sorted out her immigration status half a century ago or has been living here illegally for 4 decades (unlikely). So you'll excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.
    Were you in your 80s when they retrospectively changed the rules on you?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    felix said:



    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Yes, it does look as if my German sister in law, resident in UK for 30 years and mother of 3 UK citizens has to apply for residence, or risk being an illegal on 1 Jan 2021 even under the WA. I can see that it is going to be another Windrush as the Home Office has to successfully process 4000 applications per day over that period.

    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter of a century before freedom of movement) either sorted out her immigration status half a century ago or has been living here illegally for 4 decades (unlikely). So you'll excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.
    Were you in your 80s when they retrospectively changed the rules on you?
    Just lives as if it is 80 years ago, still thinks the Empire is intact.
  • felix said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448


    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.

    EU citizens with permanent leave to remain in the UK still need to apply to stay post-2020.

    https://www.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizens

    Like UK citizens in the EU since 1973
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072
  • felix said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448


    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.

    EU citizens with permanent leave to remain in the UK still need to apply to stay post-2020.

    https://www.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizens

    Like UK citizens in the EU since 1973

    They don’t apply.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072

    I don't think their rights will change, just what the status is called.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The mistake the Home Office made with its tweet was making it sound like the whole Settled Status programme was created by a deportation-horny immigrant-hating fascist.

    It was actually Theresa May's idea.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:



    Personally I'm hoping that I shall have an operation this year which will sort out my lumbar stenosis and in due course give me both legs again. I also hope that this time next year I shall be in a warmer climate.

    I had that operation early last year and it went very well (although as a progressive condition some of the symptoms have returned), so I wish you the best of luck. Very important to follow the post-op instructions regarding exercise, and the things you shouldn't be doing.
    Having scrolled back to find something else I found your very kind and helpful post. I'm sorry to learn that some of the symptoms have returned; an acquaintance who has also had it done reports that he's back to normal. Or, at least his wife reports that he is. Might be different!

    TBH I'm looking forward to getting back to exercise, especially walking!
    The 'rest' part of the instructions (especially limiting sitting during the post-op period) are just as important. I know someone who had a similar op at the same time as me; she felt good afterwards and did too much too soon, and ended up with no end of complications.
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Hope 2 is wrong. Apart from that, seems a sensible enough set of predictions. If 2 is wrong, May is sure to go. That would be fantastic news for the Tories.

    Interesting that no one is making any predictions on domestic policy. Sad too.
  • felix said:



    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Yes, it does look as if my German sister in law, resident in UK for 30 years and mother of 3 UK citizens has to apply for residence, or risk being an illegal on 1 Jan 2021 even under the WA. I can see that it is going to be another Windrush as the Home Office has to successfully process 4000 applications per day over that period.

    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter of a century before freedom of movement) either sorted out her immigration status half a century ago or has been living here illegally for 4 decades (unlikely). So you'll excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.
    Were you in your 80s when they retrospectively changed the rules on you?

    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited December 2018
    RobD said:

    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072

    I don't think their rights will change, just what the status is called.
    "We're stripping you of all your rights, and then making you pay 70 quid to get some of them back via a second class citizen status. And if you don't we're gonna deport you. HAVE A NICE DAY."

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Kingdom of Brexitania.

    What the Home Office hasn't said is how it plans to deal with the almost certain boycott of this scheme?

    Concentration camps for suspected Europeans?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Excellent article, David, many thanks.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Yes, it does look as if my German sister in law, resident in UK for 30 years and mother of 3 UK citizens has to apply for residence, or risk being an illegal on 1 Jan 2021 even under the WA. I can see that it is going to be another Windrush as the Home Office has to successfully process 4000 applications per day over that period.

    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.

    Nonsense, Richard. The Home Office ad talked about EU citizens having to “apply” to remain here. No EU citizen has to apply to stay in another EU member state. They have the right to do so. Applications can be refused.

    Tell you what then, when they actually refuse a valid application you can start to moan. In the meantime take a look at countries like Germany, Spain, Norway and Hungary all of whom regularly revoke settlement rights and deport EU citizens because they do not meet the requirements for being able to support themselves.

    Like I said, Remoaners are displaying an extraordinary amount of hypocrisy over this.
    Leavers who have spent the last 20 years blaming all our ills on EU migrants whilst simultaneously claiming nothing could be done as we were part of the EU look like hypocritical wankers given all the things we could have done when part of the EU.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited December 2018
    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072

    I don't think their rights will change, just what the status is called.
    "We're stripping you of all your rights, and then making you pay 70 quid to get some of them back via a second class citizen status. And if you don't we're gonna deport you. HAVE A NICE DAY."

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Kingdom of Brexitania.

    What the Home Office hasn't said is how it plans to deal with the almost certain boycott of this scheme?

    Concentration camps for suspected Europeans?
    But they are going to have the same rights as before, so they are already second class citizens (quite a weird phrase to use, since they aren't actually citizens anyway).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    I know that he is wrong a lot, and has his own agenda, but I do think Dan Hodges is very right on this one
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1078975302016094208
  • One of the interesting parts of 2019 will be watching people learn how leaving the EU will affect them personally. It’s beginning to happen with freedom of movement already. But there is so much more to come.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.
    Which makes the home office's strident, threatening, mafioso tone in presenting this extortion exercise with hints of IMPRISONMENT and DEPORTATION even more baffling.

    The Home Office has been so transformed by May's strident xenophobia to hate immigrants with every fibre of its being, that it can't not be nasty and racist even when it doesn't make any sense to be.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr Roger,

    "Seriously amazed that two thirds of your friends voted Leave."

    One our my nephews in Boston voted Remain and admitted it! But we forgive him, he's young and he'll learn.

    My wife voted Remain too, but that's OK too. It's only politics, not real life.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    kle4 said:

    I know that he is wrong a lot, and has his own agenda, but I do think Dan Hodges is very right on this one
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1078975302016094208

    "People believe their political opinions to be correct".

    Well, I never.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911

    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.
    Which makes the home office's strident, threatening, mafioso tone in presenting this extortion exercise with hints of IMPRISONMENT and DEPORTATION even more baffling.

    The Home Office has been so transformed by May's strident xenophobia to hate immigrants with every fibre of its being, that it can't not be nasty and racist even when it doesn't make any sense to be.
    If you want a mafioso racket, imagine being forced to pay into a "club" for years and then when you try to leave being threatened with the rest of the club ganging up on you and destroying your economy...

    Nice country you got here, be a shame if something happened to it...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    It needs to be repeated, Brexit has made too many people on here absolutely Batshit Crazy. You find offence and malice in every post, and resort to name calling and self righteous outrage at every opportunity and this happens on both sides. A lot of the time the site isn't worth reading much past the header, which is a damn shame as it has been the first place I look at most mornings for many years.
    Luckily, I don't believe the country is as riven as this place, because if it is we're even more fucked than I thought we were!

    My wife, my father, my brother, my sister-in law all voted Remain, and about a third of my friends voted Remain, but we are still on good terms. Anecdote only, but I expect that's fairly common.

    Social media magnifies every division, and destroys nuance. Imagine if we'd had social media, in the Seventies or the Miners' Strike. One would have thought we were on the point of civil war.
    Seriously amazed that two thirds of your friends voted Leave. To my knowledge of friends relatives and work colleagues I'm pretty sure none have voted Leave.
    From some celebs I know that have admitted amongst friends they voted Leave, I think you'd be surprised, if only you could peer over their shoulder that day in 2016.
  • felix said:



    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448



    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter of a century before freedom of movement) either sorted out her immigration status half a century ago or has been living here illegally for 4 decades (unlikely). So you'll excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.
    Were you in your 80s when they retrospectively changed the rules on you?
    I notice you again don't answer the question (and of course you don't have to)

    But you still haven't explained what's retrospective about these changes.

    Least of all for someone who moved here decades before freedom of movement.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.
    It is still hassle and uncertainty for people going through it, even if the eventual outcome is satisfactory. I have a British friend who married a Belgian and had three children (now of student age) there, now all living back in the UK; she currently has one child with a British passport, one with a Belgian passport and indefinite right to remain, and one still waiting to hear. Her situation is complicated by her having been born to British parents but in Africa. I don't see much doubt the final outcome will be fine but it's still paperwork, hassle, waiting and admin fees that she wouldn't have had to worry about within the EU.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072

    I don't think their rights will change, just what the status is called.
    "We're stripping you of all your rights, and then making you pay 70 quid to get some of them back via a second class citizen status. And if you don't we're gonna deport you. HAVE A NICE DAY."

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Kingdom of Brexitania.

    What the Home Office hasn't said is how it plans to deal with the almost certain boycott of this scheme?

    Concentration camps for suspected Europeans?
    But they are going to have the same rights as before, so they are already second class citizens (quite a weird phrase to use, since they aren't actually citizens anyway).
    Actually they have - and under the Deal will have - superior rights to UK citizens WRT family reunion.
  • felix said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Balderdash - you pay as much if not more to obtain residency in almost any EU country now. You so often argue cogently it's a shame that on this subject you are completely ott.

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448


    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.
    You don’t change the rules retrospectively and especially not for the old and the vulnerable.
    Where are the rules changing retrospectively?
    90 year olds have been able to live here for many years without having to apply for a hefty fee to remain.
    A 90 year old who moved here before 1948 (a quarter excuse me if I'm sceptical.
    This is not a one-off:

    https://twitter.com/stewartwood/status/1078683297927041024?s=21
    I don't think citing the cases of people who moved here before either the EU or freedom of movement are helping your case.

    Have you ever lived in an EU country and registered there?

    I have.

    Twice.

    And the second time they had all the details of where I had lived the first time.

    And whether I had paid my utility bills.

    EU citizens with permanent leave to remain in the UK still need to apply to stay post-2020.

    https://www.gov.uk/uk-residence-eu-citizens

    Like UK citizens in the EU since 1973

    They don’t apply.

    Have you applied for residence in an EU country?
  • RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.

    Any chance? Hmmm. We know that the Home Office has deported a number of people who were legally entitled to be treated as British citizens. We also know that the PM is determined to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands. I’d say that there is every chance people will see their applications refused.

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.
  • As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.

    Any chance? Hmmm. We know that the Home Office has deported a number of people who were legally entitled to be treated as British citizens. We also know that the PM is determined to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands. I’d say that there is every chance people will see their applications refused.

    Every chance? So 1%, 50%?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    TBH I suspect a more than a few leavers read the Home Office tweet with its threats of imprisonment and deportation for EU citizens and got a little hard.

    This is why we must ensure this scheme is boycotted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    For all of them, getting the Tories out is then the priority, and interest in leadership challenges, deselections, etc. was zero, except for any Labour MP who voted with the Tories, who would be deselected even if Momentum didn't utter a squeak.

    That is an interesting observation because unless some Labour MPs do vote with the Tories the Deal cannot get through.

    Regarding Corbyn, I am torn. I am pleased that Labour have lurched to the Left and are providing a genuine alternative to the (IMO) outdated Thatcher/Blair erstwhile consensus.

    But I would prefer a different leader. I would be enthused by someone more modern and metrosexual. Someone who felt as comfortable with a Silicon Valley rocket scientist as they do with Len McCluskey.

    And electorally, although JC did well in 2017, I have the nagging sense that there is a ceiling on his appeal to voters, and that its height is slightly too low for him to make it to Downing St with any sort of a working majority.

    Hope I'm wrong, because it is probably correct to say that he is not going to be replaced anytime soon.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.

    Any chance? Hmmm. We know that the Home Office has deported a number of people who were legally entitled to be treated as British citizens. We also know that the PM is determined to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands. I’d say that there is every chance people will see their applications refused.

    Every chance? So 1%, 50%?

    1% = 30,000 people. That’s a fair number. Your faith in the Home Office’s competence and goodwill is touching given its history.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:


    Bloke at work’s wife is French. They have a three year old boy. The Mum will now have to ask permission to stay in the UK so that the family can remain together.

    Any chance they'll be refused? Like we discussed earlier, it's a purely bureaucratic exercise to get everyone on the books.

    Any chance? Hmmm. We know that the Home Office has deported a number of people who were legally entitled to be treated as British citizens. We also know that the PM is determined to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands. I’d say that there is every chance people will see their applications refused.

    Every chance? So 1%, 50%?

    1% = 30,000 people. That’s a fair number. Your faith in the Home Office’s competence and goodwill is touching given its history.

    I wasn't asserting a probability, just wondering what you thought it was for the case you mentioned.
  • As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    Which EU country UK passport holders systems do you think we should emulate?

    Are there any?
  • RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?

    Passports would be the nearest equivalent.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    edited December 2018
    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?
    Not only that:

    In many countries, you will need to carry your registration certificate and national identity card or passport at all times. If you leave them at home, you may be fined.....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited December 2018


    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    The EU doesn't recommend we strip people of all their rights, and demand money to buy some of them back, and threaten them with deportation if they don't.

    The EU guidelines don't say "be a nasty xenophobic immigrant hating prick at all times when trying to scare people into paying into your extortion racket".

    No, this kind of nastiness is a Theresa May special. The kind of studied anti-immigrant malignancy that she has excelled at spurting all over the UK body politic throughout her nasty, pustulent time in goverment.

    A nationwide boycott of this un-British, inhumane abomination is the only sensible response to such vile hideousness.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited December 2018


    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    The EU doesn't recommend we strip people of all their rights, and demand money to buy some of them back, and threaten them with deportation if they don't.

    The EU guidelines don't say "be a nasty xenophobic immigrant hating prick at all times when trying to scare people into paying your extortion racket".

    No, this kind of nastiness is a Theresa May special. The kind of studied anti-immigrant malignancy that she has excelled at spurting all over the UK body politic throughout her nasty, pustulent time in goverment.
    You really think EU citizens resident in the UK are being striped of all their rights?
  • RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    I presume because the UK has added 'Checks for criminality'.

    Should we not have done?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?
    We have passports.

    Those are more expensive.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RobD said:


    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    The EU doesn't recommend we strip people of all their rights, and demand money to buy some of them back, and threaten them with deportation if they don't.

    The EU guidelines don't say "be a nasty xenophobic immigrant hating prick at all times when trying to scare people into paying your extortion racket".

    No, this kind of nastiness is a Theresa May special. The kind of studied anti-immigrant malignancy that she has excelled at spurting all over the UK body politic throughout her nasty, pustulent time in goverment.
    You really think EU citizens resident in the UK are being striped of all their rights?
    Well, they have the "opportunity" to buy back *some* of what they've lost for a mere 70 quid, or face... what? Deportation? Concentration camps for suspected europeans?

  • Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    The EU doesn't recommend we strip people of all their rights, and demand money to buy some of them back, and threaten them with deportation if they don't.

    The EU guidelines don't say "be a nasty xenophobic immigrant hating prick at all times when trying to scare people into paying into your extortion racket".

    No, this kind of nastiness is a Theresa May special. The kind of studied anti-immigrant malignancy that she has excelled at spurting all over the UK body politic throughout her nasty, pustulent time in goverment.

    A nationwide boycott of this un-British, inhumane abomination is the only sensible response to such vile hideousness.
    I'd put more water in it if I were you.....
  • RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    I presume because the UK has added 'Checks for criminality'.

    Should we not have done?

    Nope, I think we shouldn’t have done anything to change the current status of EU citizens in the UK. I think we should have sorted that out the day after the referendum unilaterally and left absolutely no room for doubt. That would have been a powerful statement of goodwill.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:


    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    The EU doesn't recommend we strip people of all their rights, and demand money to buy some of them back, and threaten them with deportation if they don't.

    The EU guidelines don't say "be a nasty xenophobic immigrant hating prick at all times when trying to scare people into paying your extortion racket".

    No, this kind of nastiness is a Theresa May special. The kind of studied anti-immigrant malignancy that she has excelled at spurting all over the UK body politic throughout her nasty, pustulent time in goverment.
    You really think EU citizens resident in the UK are being striped of all their rights?
    Well, they have the "opportunity" to buy back *some* of what they've lost for a mere 70 quid, or face... what? Deportation? Concentration camps for suspected europeans?
    Huh, the fee presumably covers the cost of processing the paperwork, or should that fall on the taxpayer?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    There's gonna be a boycott of this nasty, hideous abomination of a scheme. The only question is how the Home Office plans to deal with it.

    I have to admit, seeing Theresa May rounding up and putting our friends, colleagues and family members from other EU countries into concentration camps would be a fitting end to May's ignominious career of immigrant hate.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    For all those that feel that the administrative aspect of EU citizens applying for permanent residency rights is trivial, consider cases like this:

    https://twitter.com/DrNostromo/status/1078730320067944448

    Yes, it does look as if my German sister in law, resident in UK for 30 years and mother of 3 UK citizens has to apply for residence, or risk being an illegal on 1 Jan 2021 even under the WA. I can see that it is going to be another Windrush as the Home Office has to successfully process 4000 applications per day over that period.

    They could have simplified it considerably by exempting spouses of UK citizens automatically.
    It is utterly laughable that the EU fanatics like you and Meeks are now complaining about EU citizens having to do in Britain what they have had to do in practically every other EU country for decades.

    It does show the hypocrisy and ignorance of Remoaners that they think this is somehow exceptional either inside or outside the EU.

    Nonsense, Richard. The Home Office ad talked about EU citizens having to “apply” to remain here. No EU citizen has to apply to stay in another EU member state. They have the right to do so. Applications can be refused.

    Tell you what then, when they actually refuse a valid application you can start to moan. In the meantime take a look at countries like Germany, Spain, Norway and Hungary all of whom regularly revoke settlement rights and deport EU citizens because they do not meet the requirements for being able to support themselves.

    Like I said, Remoaners are displaying an extraordinary amount of hypocrisy over this.
    Leavers who have spent the last 20 years blaming all our ills on EU migrants whilst simultaneously claiming nothing could be done as we were part of the EU look like hypocritical wankers given all the things we could have done when part of the EU.
    If only a half decent Remain campaign could have pointed this out.. Or if even a half decent opposition, or remain supporting member of the Government.

    Even if Cameron had come back from the EU and added all these requirements onto EU nationals like we could do, it could have nudged enough people.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    They probably need to share the information with the Police to do a records check.
  • RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    I presume because the UK has added 'Checks for criminality'.

    Should we not have done?

    Nope, I think we shouldn’t have done anything to change the current status of EU citizens in the UK. I think we should have sorted that out the day after the referendum unilaterally and left absolutely no room for doubt. That would have been a powerful statement of goodwill.

    When the status of UK citizens in the EU will change (many of whom didn't have a vote thanks to Labour)?
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    RobD said:

    Dan Hannan's tweets failing to age at all well is my favourite.

    https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/705375753303683072

    I don't think their rights will change, just what the status is called.
    "We're stripping you of all your rights, and then making you pay 70 quid to get some of them back via a second class citizen status. And if you don't we're gonna deport you. HAVE A NICE DAY."

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Kingdom of Brexitania.

    What the Home Office hasn't said is how it plans to deal with the almost certain boycott of this scheme?

    Concentration camps for suspected Europeans?
    They'll soon have difficulty keeping employment, renting a house etc etc
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RobD said:

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    They probably need to share the information with the Police to do a records check.
    And the private sector companies abroad?

    I suppose they could ask Facebook.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    I presume because the UK has added 'Checks for criminality'.

    Should we not have done?

    Nope, I think we shouldn’t have done anything to change the current status of EU citizens in the UK. I think we should have sorted that out the day after the referendum unilaterally and left absolutely no room for doubt. That would have been a powerful statement of goodwill.

    Given that permanent residency status was governed by EU law, something had to be done.
  • RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    I presume because the UK has added 'Checks for criminality'.

    Should we not have done?

    Nope, I think we shouldn’t have done anything to change the current status of EU citizens in the UK. I think we should have sorted that out the day after the referendum unilaterally and left absolutely no room for doubt. That would have been a powerful statement of goodwill.

    When the status of UK citizens in the EU will change (many of whom didn't have a vote thanks to Labour)?

    Yep.

  • I have to admit, seeing Theresa May rounding up and putting our friends, colleagues and family members from other EU countries into concentration camps would be a fitting end to May's ignominious career of immigrant hate.

    Edit. A LOT more water....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    notme2 said:


    They'll soon have difficulty keeping employment, renting a house etc etc

    Ah, so that's it? May just wants to make our friends and loved ones destitute and homeless.

    I suppose she's doing a good job of that already.
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?
    We have passports.

    Those are more expensive.

    All EU member states have passports.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited December 2018

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    They probably need to share the information with the Police to do a records check.
    And the private sector companies abroad?

    I suppose they could ask Facebook.
    The only thing I can think that would be somewhat relevant was credit rating agencies. It might be boilerplate text that covers all potential scenarios.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
  • Regarding the break up the UK solution. Can I refer back to the Commonwealth of Britain Bill of 1991 - seconded by Jeremy Corbyn - which envisaged a federal UK where the component nations and principality became independent functioning statelets...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:



    Personally I'm hoping that I shall have an operation this year which will sort out my lumbar stenosis and in due course give me both legs again. I also hope that this time next year I shall be in a warmer climate.

    I had that operation early last year and it went very well (although as a progressive condition some of the symptoms have returned), so I wish you the best of luck. Very important to follow the post-op instructions regarding exercise, and the things you shouldn't be doing.
    Having scrolled back to find something else I found your very kind and helpful post. I'm sorry to learn that some of the symptoms have returned; an acquaintance who has also had it done reports that he's back to normal. Or, at least his wife reports that he is. Might be different!

    TBH I'm looking forward to getting back to exercise, especially walking!
    The 'rest' part of the instructions (especially limiting sitting during the post-op period) are just as important. I know someone who had a similar op at the same time as me; she felt good afterwards and did too much too soon, and ended up with no end of complications.
    Thanks. Apparently my acquaintance ate his meals standing up for a couple of weeks. He's quite tall, so that must have looked odd! However, if that's what one has to do........
    I can see me putting my computer on a high shelf, too!
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Fair point... I dont like giving up the freedom to tell a police officer to FO when he asks for ID. None of this "show me your papers" nonsense. Thats what they do in foreign countries not here. but, but but.... What do we do when faced with such large population movements?
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?
    We have passports.

    Those are more expensive.

    All EU member states have passports.


    And many of them fine you for not carrying ID.....and proof of residence....
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    notme2 said:


    They'll soon have difficulty keeping employment, renting a house etc etc

    Ah, so that's it? May just wants to make our friends and loved ones destitute and homeless.

    I suppose she's doing a good job of that already.
    Or pay the £60 fee, that we should have instituted when they arrived.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited December 2018
    And from the website, it looks as though those with permanent residency don't pay, and don't need to prove continuous residence. It's literally just changing one form for another.
  • RobD said:

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    They probably need to share the information with the Police to do a records check.
    No wonder Remain lost with such contempt for others and the rule of law. Keep it up. If there is a second referendum, Leave could do with people like you doing your best for Remain.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
    Germany.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Hope 2 is wrong. Apart from that, seems a sensible enough set of predictions. If 2 is wrong, May is sure to go. That would be fantastic news for the Tories.

    Interesting that no one is making any predictions on domestic policy. Sad too.

    Wrong as usual.

    Not only would No Deal to great damage to the economy and potentially breakup the Union, no alternative Tory leader polls better than May and most poll worse
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
    Germany.
    How was the process?
  • The whole thing is an extortion racket, and the home office using implicit threats of deportation for noncompliance is shameful.

    I strongly urge any EU citizen to join the boycott of this nasty little bureaufascist scheme.

    Why is it an extortion racket when its in line with EU guidelines?

    Your registration certificate should be issued immediately and cost no more than the price nationals pay for identity cards.

    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    We don’t have ID cards, do we?
    We have passports.

    Those are more expensive.

    All EU member states have passports.


    And many of them fine you for not carrying ID.....and proof of residence....

    So what?

  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RobD said:

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
    Well, the 48% or so of the population who thinks racism is bad, I mean.

    Obviously trying to get leavers to stop being racist pricks for a second is a lost cause.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
    Well, the 48% or so of the population who thinks racism is bad, I mean.

    Obviously trying to get leavers to stop being racist pricks for a second is a lost cause.
    Suspect a large fraction of those also don't care.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
    Well, the 48% or so of the population who thinks racism is bad, I mean.

    Obviously trying to get leavers to stop being racist pricks for a second is a lost cause.
    Suspect a large fraction of those also don't care.
    First they came for the EU citizens and I said nothing...
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
    Germany.
    How was the process?
    A pain.

    I chuckled at the Brexiteers who said Brexit would reduce bureaucracy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
    Well, the 48% or so of the population who thinks racism is bad, I mean.

    Obviously trying to get leavers to stop being racist pricks for a second is a lost cause.
    Suspect a large fraction of those also don't care.
    First they came for the EU citizens and I said nothing...
    But they aren't coming for them. All that is being done is one document (permanent residency) is being replaced with another.
  • It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    Mrs May will be very relaxed about being seen as creating a hostile environment for foreign people. It’s the one thing she believes in passionately.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    edited December 2018
    Former England cricket captain Andrew Strauss's wife has died. 46. Form of lung cancer.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    RobD said:

    It's symptomatic of May's malign tone deafness that she's managed to turn what's supposed to be a bureaucratic exercise into a national debate about strident anti-immigrant rhetoric creating a hostile environment for our friends, colleagues and loved ones from EU countries.

    National debate? I suspect the great unwashed don't care that some people have to fill out a form.
    Well, the 48% or so of the population who thinks racism is bad, I mean.

    Obviously trying to get leavers to stop being racist pricks for a second is a lost cause.
    You are a Leaver.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    Roger said:

    Sean_F said:

    It needs to be repeated, Brexit has made too many people on here absolutely Batshit Crazy. You find offence and malice in every post, and resort to name calling and self righteous outrage at every opportunity and this happens on both sides. A lot of the time the site isn't worth reading much past the header, which is a damn shame as it has been the first place I look at most mornings for many years.
    Luckily, I don't believe the country is as riven as this place, because if it is we're even more fucked than I thought we were!

    My wife, my father, my brother, my sister-in law all voted Remain, and about a third of my friends voted Remain, but we are still on good terms. Anecdote only, but I expect that's fairly common.

    Social media magnifies every division, and destroys nuance. Imagine if we'd had social media, in the Seventies or the Miners' Strike. One would have thought we were on the point of civil war.
    Seriously amazed that two thirds of your friends voted Leave. To my knowledge of friends relatives and work colleagues I'm pretty sure none have voted Leave.
    From some celebs I know that have admitted amongst friends they voted Leave, I think you'd be surprised, if only you could peer over their shoulder that day in 2016.
    If you work in finance, or academia, or in the City, you'll encounter few people who will say they voted Leave. If you work in law, or accountancy, or in the Provinces, you'll encounter many.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,231

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    Um, hod on, isn't there a GDPR issue here? You can't just lob data hither and yon without active informed consent.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    viewcode said:

    From the small print:

    image

    BOYCOTT NOW.

    Um, hod on, isn't there a GDPR issue here? You can't just lob data hither and yon without active informed consent.
    No doubt you agree to it when you use the app.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:



    Personally I'm hoping that I shall have an operation this year which will sort out my lumbar stenosis and in due course give me both legs again. I also hope that this time next year I shall be in a warmer climate.

    I had that operation early last year and it went very well (although as a progressive condition some of the symptoms have returned), so I wish you the best of luck. Very important to follow the post-op instructions regarding exercise, and the things you shouldn't be doing.
    Having scrolled back to find something else I found your very kind and helpful post. I'm sorry to learn that some of the symptoms have returned; an acquaintance who has also had it done reports that he's back to normal. Or, at least his wife reports that he is. Might be different!

    TBH I'm looking forward to getting back to exercise, especially walking!
    The 'rest' part of the instructions (especially limiting sitting during the post-op period) are just as important. I know someone who had a similar op at the same time as me; she felt good afterwards and did too much too soon, and ended up with no end of complications.
    Thanks. Apparently my acquaintance ate his meals standing up for a couple of weeks. He's quite tall, so that must have looked odd! However, if that's what one has to do........
    I can see me putting my computer on a high shelf, too!
    Apart from the prescribed walking several times a day (important to keep everything moving to try and avoid scar tissue forming along the spinal canal), I spent most of the post-op period lying down. Get some box sets or sign up to Netflix and/or Amazon Prime!
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
    Germany.
    "99 Red Shoes go by!"
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    As a reminder for those outraged that the UK will require EU citizens to register after Brexit.

    Its something many (if not most) EU countries have required of UK citizens since 1973

    During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as EU national, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.

    After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.

    You will need a valid identity card or passport and:

    Employees / Postings abroad
    Certificate of employment or confirmation of recruitment from your employer

    Self-employed
    Proof of your status as self-employed

    Pensioners
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Proof you can support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source

    Students
    Proof of enrolment at an approved educational establishment
    Proof of comprehensive health insurance
    Declaration that you have sufficient resources to support yourself without needing income support: resources may come from any source


    https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/index_en.htm

    I must have missed the howls of outrage....

    Registering residence is not the same as applying for it.

    From the EU's notes it sounds as though registration is required to confirm your right to live there. How is the Home Office's scheme any different?

    The Home Office has chosen to say people must apply.

    But in actuality it's exactly the same as what is done in other EU countries.
    Don't let facts get in the way of hysteria.

    Especially of many who have never lived abroad....
    I like our country to be better than France.

    A LOT better than France.
    Do you mind sharing which EU countries you've registered in? Most of the critics are rather coy....
    Germany.
    How was the process?
    A pain.
    Yep. Applying systems used in EU countries to EU citizens might be a pain. Unless we do it online of course....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    I remember when I was a prefect at school. It meant that I could put a record on in the 6th form common room whenever I felt like it. Non prefects could also do that, but they had to ask permission. The point of this was not to penalize the pupils who were not prefects but to make those of us who were feel special. And it worked. Least with me, it did. Happy days.
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