@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
Your side is the side using a nerve agent on the streets of Britain.
Your side is the side that has let in 3m illegal immigrants into Europe that have raped, murdered and bombed their way through the continent. Let's call it even.
That possibly takes it...I thought your last post reached a depressing low...but this post. Well done comrade. You exceed yourself
How's vibrant Italy these days, Tyson? Migration working out well? Salvini on 30%+ in the polls...
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
I don't know.
The voters were warned about the risks of No Deal but they still voted to Leave so the government has to Leave next March.
No Deal or revoking Article 50 I think the Tories are buggered either way.
Anyway, the point of Mike’s bet is not that the Democrats would actively foist Nancy Pelosi on the nation, but that it would happen by default if the houses could not agree on a new Vice President and both the incumbent and his deputy were otherwise indisposed. Given current levels of cross-party amity, that seems a very possible outcome in what are admittedly unlikely circumstances.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
Your side is the side using a nerve agent on the streets of Britain.
Your side is the side that has let in 3m illegal immigrants into Europe that have raped, murdered and bombed their way through the continent. Let's call it even.
That possibly takes it...I thought your last post reached a depressing low...but this post. Well done comrade. You exceed yourself
How's vibrant Italy these days, Tyson? Migration working out well? Salvini on 30%+ in the polls...
Populism works Max....it doesn't mean that it is right
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
Your side is the side using a nerve agent on the streets of Britain.
Your side is the side that has let in 3m illegal immigrants into Europe that have raped, murdered and bombed their way through the continent. Let's call it even.
That possibly takes it...I thought your last post reached a depressing low...but this post. Well done comrade. You exceed yourself
How's vibrant Italy these days, Tyson? Migration working out well? Salvini on 30%+ in the polls...
Populism works Max....it doesn't mean that it is right
The voters are always right, politicians who blame the voters won't last long, except in Brussels where they don't have the inconvenience of elections.
The politicians didn't listen when it came to letting in millions of illegal immigrants into Europe and now they are reaping what they sowed. Europe will only know sorrow and division for a generation of it continues on this path.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Grieve will surely be deselected and lose the Whip if he tries to amend a finance bill?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Which as @TOPPING will tell you would cause the UK immediately to capitulate to any conditions necessary to avoid it.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
Your side is the side using a nerve agent on the streets of Britain.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Which as @TOPPING will tell you would cause the UK immediately to capitulate to any conditions necessary to avoid it.
Rubbish. The govt would fall before that happens.
It hasn’t fallen yet and it’s been over a year since the backstop was first agreed.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Which as @TOPPING will tell you would cause the UK immediately to capitulate to any conditions necessary to avoid it.
Rubbish. The govt would fall before that happens.
It hasn’t fallen yet and it’s been over a year since the backstop was first agreed.
If you knew the Tory party you’d know the optics of capitulation are far worse in many constituencies than those of an EU built wall.
Utterly irrelevant. The candidates know the rules of the game beforehand, it is States that matter. The fact that Hillary famously lost blue States she didn't bother campaigning in is her own damned fault - and the fault of a party that let her be so arrogant.
Hopefully the Democrats have learnt their lesson and won't take their own voters and States for granted again.
And yet again. As @TheKitchenCabinet rightly said, the rules are the rules. That applies as much to the replacement of presidents as to their election. Those involved in the replacement can take into account such considerations as they consider fit. The screaming abdabs from those of a different party would be unlikely to figure highly on the list.
I am arguing that they *shouldn’t* not that they *can’t*
More fool me for expecting a lawyer to know the difference between law and justice I suppose
You haven’t begun to articulate why an individual candidate elected with a minority of the votes should inevitably be replaced with an individual from the same party. The rules of the game don’t restrict the selectors in that way and the Republicans have no track record of Corinthian behaviour to justify such an approach. Indeed, they have only just railroaded through a deeply flawed candidate onto the Supreme Court using brute majoritarianism.
The minority of the votes is - as has been stated by various people - irrelevant
My view is that the appropriate thing to do if there is a requirement to replace one of other of these roles for the house to act as an agent on behalf of the electoral college. The voters have said “we want the candidate of party X”, the EC has done its part and the House should feel morally obligated not to over ride the wishes of the electorate.
I'm genuinely struggling with knowing when rules are rules and must be followed to the letter and when people should ignore what is codified in the laws of the country and go with the 'morally correct' option.
The rules are that Congress appoints a successor. Those should be followed.
The moral imperative is that it should be someone from the same party that the electoral college selected
I’m really struggling to see why people think it it is ok to play partisan games with the most important elected position in the world
The voters were warned about the risks of No Deal but they still voted to Leave so the government has to Leave next March.
No Deal or revoking Article 50 I think the Tories are buggered either way.
Thanks for the honest answer.
I suspect the WA will fall on the first vote and in the atmosphere of crisis that will provoke, May will head off to Brussels and plead with the EU leaders to make some changes so it can clear the Commons.
I'm not sure if they will or won't - if they do and it comes back again and it fails a second time, I think May will switch to a managed No Deal and use the last two months to try to do as much as is possible to mitigate the effects of No Deal.
A second referendum is obfuscation and won't happen - the question is whether there will be an attempt in the Commons to introduce legislation to revoke A50 as provided by the CJEU judgement. Oddly enough, that could work to the electoral advantage of the Conservatives if it was seen as the Opposition (and pro-EU Conservative MPs) trying to thwart the will of the people.
If it were to be instigated by the Government, however, as a way of preventing No Deal, what kind of electoral price would the Conservatives be prepared to pay for abandoning or betraying the majority of their supporters who voted LEAVE?
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Which as @TOPPING will tell you would cause the UK immediately to capitulate to any conditions necessary to avoid it.
Rubbish. The govt would fall before that happens.
It hasn’t fallen yet and it’s been over a year since the backstop was first agreed.
If you knew the Tory party you’d know the optics of capitulation are far worse in many constituencies than those of an EU built wall.
The avoidance of a hard border is even more of a critical national interest for the UK than it is for Ireland.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
We are all going to die anyway, there's 3 million illegal immigrants rampaging around Europe according to Max.....
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
I thought the EU was a benign organisation that wanted peace and harmony in Europe, now you say they want to trash us?
The voters were warned about the risks of No Deal but they still voted to Leave so the government has to Leave next March.
No Deal or revoking Article 50 I think the Tories are buggered either way.
Thanks for the honest answer.
I suspect the WA will fall on the first vote and in the atmosphere of crisis that will provoke, May will head off to Brussels and plead with the EU leaders to make some changes so it can clear the Commons.
I'm not sure if they will or won't - if they do and it comes back again and it fails a second time, I think May will switch to a managed No Deal and use the last two months to try to do as much as is possible to mitigate the effects of No Deal.
A second referendum is obfuscation and won't happen - the question is whether there will be an attempt in the Commons to introduce legislation to revoke A50 as provided by the CJEU judgement. Oddly enough, that could work to the electoral advantage of the Conservatives if it was seen as the Opposition (and pro-EU Conservative MPs) trying to thwart the will of the people.
If it were to be instigated by the Government, however, as a way of preventing No Deal, what kind of electoral price would the Conservatives be prepared to pay for abandoning or betraying the majority of their supporters who voted LEAVE?
Once EUref2 and Norway plus are voted down by the Commons as motions under the Grieve amendment the Deal might well pass as the only alternative left to No Deal.
As Yougov also showed recently 372 constituencies, ie a clear majority, prefer the Deal head to head against both No Deal and Remain so the Deal could even win EUref2
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
David Howarth was the Lib Dem MP for Cambridge around 10 years ago. Before then he was the leader of Cambridge City Council when the Lib Dems were in control.
A first class mind, and returned back to academia after leaving the Commons.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Which as @TOPPING will tell you would cause the UK immediately to capitulate to any conditions necessary to avoid it.
Rubbish. The govt would fall before that happens.
It hasn’t fallen yet and it’s been over a year since the backstop was first agreed.
If you knew the Tory party you’d know the optics of capitulation are far worse in many constituencies than those of an EU built wall.
Is VAT a tax requiring annual renewal by parliament? I thought Income and Corporation were the main taxes in that category.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
Except the time they said pineapple on pizza was acceptable.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
Except the time they said pineapple on pizza was acceptable.
Brexit is the Boaty mcBoatface of international diplomatic disasters.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Grieve will surely be deselected and lose the Whip if he tries to amend a finance bill?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
Surely there is precedent for a Finance Bill being amended? I think of Rooker- Wise in 1977.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
David Howarth was the Lib Dem MP for Cambridge around 10 years ago. Before then he was the leader of Cambridge City Council when the Lib Dems were in control.
A first class mind, and returned back to academia after leaving the Commons.
No deal always was dead, barring some horrendous accident. The MPs advocating it as a sensible position after exit should all be certified.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The ones to watch are the cohort that will grow up witnessing the long term fallout of the Great Brexit Omnishambles first hand. They'll grow up to be almost embarassingly pro-EU in a way not considered possible before Brexit showed not just the UK, but the whole world, what an infitinitely shambolic disaster trying to leave was.
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
May's dalliance with no deal is a tremendous bluff, intended to frighten the troops. No sensible PM could ever take the country there, and Mrs M is more sensible than many.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
No 55% Yes 45%
Since you brought up the Scottish rather than the British public...
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
May's dalliance with no deal is a tremendous bluff, intended to frighten the troops. No sensible PM could ever take the country there, and Mrs M is more sensible than many.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Grieve will surely be deselected and lose the Whip if he tries to amend a finance bill?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
Surely there is precedent for a Finance Bill being amended? I think of Rooker- Wise in 1977.
Under the FTPA, amending a finance bill is no longer a confidence issue (stupidly, IMHO) which means the old rules around confidence are entirely unclear.
We are in a period of rapid constitutional innovation.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
I thought the EU was a benign organisation that wanted peace and harmony in Europe, now you say they want to trash us?
No. But they now no longer care whether their actions are in our favour or not. Just like every other nation in fact. You wanted independence. Now you got it. Fun, huh...
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
I don't know.
The voters were warned about the risks of No Deal but they still voted to Leave so the government has to Leave next March.
No Deal or revoking Article 50 I think the Tories are buggered either way.
At least there is prospect of some sort of silver lining to this fiasco.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
I thought the EU was a benign organisation that wanted peace and harmony in Europe, now you say they want to trash us?
Certainly, they want to show that leaving is economically and politically damaging. A fact which is now clear to all but the most blinkered leavers.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Grieve will surely be deselected and lose the Whip if he tries to amend a finance bill?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
Surely there is precedent for a Finance Bill being amended? I think of Rooker- Wise in 1977.
Under the FTPA, amending a finance bill is no longer a confidence issue (stupidly, IMHO) which means the old rules around confidence are entirely unclear.
We are in a period of rapid constitutional innovation.
Ok - but amending the Finance Bill in 1977 did not bring down the Government!
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Insurance is a major issue and could certainly lead to flights being halted. I think the EU has said that UK airlines would be able to fly between the UK and EU only, not within the EU.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Bilateral agreements will be put in place
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Scary times. Brexit makes the sane mad and the mad powerful.
No Deal is dead, finito, sine die, a law professor at the finest university in the world is helping to stop it.
MPs seeking another Brexit vote could curtail the government’s power to collect taxes unless Theresa May agrees to call a fresh referendum.
The plan is contained in a report on new ways to force a second referendum by the Best for Britain campaign group. It is backed by Dominic Grieve, the leading pro-EU Conservative, and includes advice from David Howarth, a professor of law at the University of Cambridge.
Under current law if Mrs May’s deal is not approved by parliament before the end of March then the UK will leave the EU without a deal. One of four options proposed in the report is to force the government to replace no deal as its default option with a referendum.
To do so MPs would try to amend the finance bill when it returns to the Commons on January 8. The government needs this bill to pass to authorise the collection of annual taxes. But under the plans pro-EU MPs would table an amendment “making future taxation conditional on holding a referendum (with an option to remain)”. If there is no majority for that, MPs would then “unite those who want a [referendum] with those who want to rule out no deal.
“It would work by removing the power to collect the annual taxes unless either a deal had been approved . . . or a referendum had been arranged.”
That really does remind me of the Unionists threatening to veto the Mutiny Act over Home Rule in 1913, and not in a good way.
Own goal here; this coming to pass would cement a harder Brexit. If the UK can't collect VAT, it is unable to co-ordinate VAT administration with RoI under the EU's sixth VAT directive, meaning Varadkar and Coveney have to build a god damned wall and collect it themselves at the border.
Apart from that, Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.
Grieve will surely be deselected and lose the Whip if he tries to amend a finance bill?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
Surely there is precedent for a Finance Bill being amended? I think of Rooker- Wise in 1977.
Under the FTPA, amending a finance bill is no longer a confidence issue (stupidly, IMHO) which means the old rules around confidence are entirely unclear.
We are in a period of rapid constitutional innovation.
I’d say “flux”. “Innovation” implies a plan and an objective
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
I thought the EU was a benign organisation that wanted peace and harmony in Europe, now you say they want to trash us?
No. But they now no longer care whether their actions are in our favour or not. Just like every other nation in fact. You wanted independence. Now you got it. Fun, huh...
Well it depends on the nature if the relationship they want with us post Brexit
Stopping plabszfkting, for example, would be perceived as a hostile act
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I agree that many of the Tories were incompetent (May is an example) but the swivel eyed loons were kept vaguely under control by the LDs
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I agree that many of the Tories were incompetent (May is an example) but the swivel eyed loons were kept vaguely under control by the LDs
No. The government was the government. You don’t get to sit in Cabinet and say “it was them guv not me”
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Certainly there is a significant chance of no deal but I don't think it's "very likely." I guess that less than 100 out of 650 MPs favour that outcome and given that some Tories have gone as far as to say they would quit the party to prevent no deal the odds must be against it. If it came to the point I think parliament would vote to revoke article 50 rather than go over the cliff. Then there would be either a referendum or general election to endorse their decision.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I agree that many of the Tories were incompetent (May is an example) but the swivel eyed loons were kept vaguely under control by the LDs
No. The government was the government. You don’t get to sit in Cabinet and say “it was them guv not me”
Why not? that is what the current cabinet is doing?
I am happy to concede that Cable was as useless as May, but in general it has been the best government since Tony Blair's first term.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Certainly there is a significant chance of no deal but I don't think it's "very likely." I guess that less than 100 out of 650 MPs favour that outcome and given that some Tories have gone as far as to say they would quit the party to prevent no deal the odds must be against it. If it came to the point I think parliament would vote to revoke article 50 rather than go over the cliff. Then there would be either a referendum or general election to endorse their decision.
No Deal remains the default, so will happen if the current log-jam continues. Less than 3 months to go and both major parties led by pig-headed dunces. So yes, quite likely it is.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The ones to watch are the cohort that will grow up witnessing the long term fallout of the Great Brexit Omnishambles first hand. They'll grow up to be almost embarassingly pro-EU in a way not considered possible before Brexit showed not just the UK, but the whole world, what an infitinitely shambolic disaster trying to leave was.
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
I doubt it, even if Scotland votes for independence it may not even rejoin the full EU let alone the Euro preferring Norway style single market only.
I also cannot see there ever being a majority for the Euro, even now 2/3 oppose it still even if some polls show voters would reverse Brexit and back Remain. If we did join the EU more likely it would be as associate embers in an outer ring with non Eurozone members like Sweden and Denmark and Poland
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I agree that many of the Tories were incompetent (May is an example) but the swivel eyed loons were kept vaguely under control by the LDs
No. The government was the government. You don’t get to sit in Cabinet and say “it was them guv not me”
Why not? that is what the current cabinet is doing?
I am happy to concede that Cable was as useless as May, but in general it has been the best government since Tony Blair's first term.
The LDs definitely saved the Tory establishment from their worst excesses.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Except most MPs oppose No Deal and if they cannot get EUref2 or Norway Plus through they may vote for the Deal as the last resort
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I agree that many of the Tories were incompetent (May is an example) but the swivel eyed loons were kept vaguely under control by the LDs
No. The government was the government. You don’t get to sit in Cabinet and say “it was them guv not me”
Must say I rarely find myself agreeing with @Charles against Foxy...
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Bilateral agreements will be put in place
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
Well, as an aviation insurance market practitioner I can hopefully reassure you that Insurance will remain in place and new covers purchased.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Insurance is a major issue and could certainly lead to flights being halted. I think the EU has said that UK airlines would be able to fly between the UK and EU only, not within the EU.
No , no, no.
Insurance is not an issue - even the point you raise above is non insurance related.
Even if the Insurance thing was not an utter red herring it would have been an issue for a lot of the european aviaton industry too.
The LDs definitely saved the Tory establishment from their worst excesses.
When the coalition was formed I expected the Tories to co-opt the Lib Dems into a position similar to that of the National Liberals in the 1930s. This would have enabled Cameron to marginalise the right and turn the Tories into a New Labour-style dominant centrist force. But Cameron opted instead to appease the right and dump on the Lib Dems, a major strategic misjudgement which led directly to the circumstances in which he made his fateful decision to hold the EU referendum.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
I thought the EU was a benign organisation that wanted peace and harmony in Europe, now you say they want to trash us?
No. But they now no longer care whether their actions are in our favour or not. Just like every other nation in fact. You wanted independence. Now you got it. Fun, huh...
Well it depends on the nature if the relationship they want with us post Brexit
Stopping plabszfkting, for example, would be perceived as a hostile act
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Competent government that hit inflation in asset prices and fucked over anyone under the age of 30.
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I think you have confused them with the Baby Boomers - those who benefited massively from our system and then pulled the ladder up behind themselves. No massive mortgages or student debt for the Boomers... and along comes Brexit promising another £350m per week
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Insurance is a major issue and could certainly lead to flights being halted. I think the EU has said that UK airlines would be able to fly between the UK and EU only, not within the EU.
No , no, no.
Insurance is not an issue - even the point you raise above is non insurance related.
Even if the Insurance thing was not an utter red herring it would have been an issue for a lot of the european aviaton industry too.
Well I don't know the details of European aviation insurance but I do know that insurance issues often play a much more significant part in business decisions than is generally realised. For instance, one of the main reason why driverless cars have not yet gone into mass production is that insurers will not touch them because there is no satisfactory way of determining responsibility for an accident - was it a system error or was the operator at fault? Short of fitting the kind of black box technology used on aircraft in all cars every accident would be the subject of intractable dispute.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The ones to watch are the cohort that will grow up witnessing the long term fallout of the Great Brexit Omnishambles first hand. They'll grow up to be almost embarassingly pro-EU in a way not considered possible before Brexit showed not just the UK, but the whole world, what an infitinitely shambolic disaster trying to leave was.
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
I doubt it, even if Scotland votes for independence it may not even rejoin the full EU let alone the Euro preferring Norway style single market only.
I also cannot see there ever being a majority for the Euro, even now 2/3 oppose it still even if some polls show voters would reverse Brexit and back Remain. If we did join the EU more likely it would be as associate embers in an outer ring with non Eurozone members like Sweden and Denmark and Poland
Funnily enough we can achieve that quite easily... by revoking A50.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed but iass a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Bilateral agreements will be put in place
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
I won't speak to insurance, but I will speak to bilateralism. There is an ongoing assumption amongst many people, leavers and remainers alike, that bilateral arrangements will be installed to mitigate bad effects. I remind you that a) every attempt to bypass the EU since the ref was announced by speaking to the member states directly has failed, and b) if I understand correctly (Ivan Rogers?) any mitigation emplaced by the EU will be for the EUs benefit, not necessarily ours.
Well I don't know the details of European aviation insurance but I do know that insurance issues often play a much more significant part in business decisions than is generally realised. For instance, one of the main reason why driverless cars have not yet gone into mass production is that insurers will not touch them because there is no satisfactory way of determining responsibility for an accident - was it a system error or was the operator at fault? Short of fitting the kind of black box technology used on aircraft in all cars every accident would be the subject of intractable dispute.
I don't think that's right, we already have disputes regarding insurance at-fault liability given drivers in general don't want to admit it is their fault (even if it is) but ultimately insurers find a way to apportion blame.
The issue isn't insurance alone, the issue is that the technology is still in its infancy, it is coming though. We already have semi-autonomous vehicles - and live testing of driverless vehicles in certain states across the Pond.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed but iass a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Bilateral agreements will be put in place
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
I won't speak to insurance, but I will speak to bilateralism. There is an ongoing assumption amongst many people, leavers and remainers alike, that bilateral arrangements will be installed to mitigate bad effects. I remind you that a) every attempt to bypass the EU since the ref was announced by speaking to the member states directly has failed, and b) if I understand correctly (Ivan Rogers?) any mitigation emplaced by the EU will be for the EUs benefit, not necessarily ours.
When I used the word bilateral, I was referring to bilateral deals between EU and UK, as oppose to unilateral decisions/actions by the EU. Agreed deals with individual nations would be more difficult.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Agreed. I can't see myself ever crossing their box again. But you never know in politics.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Insurance is a major issue and could certainly lead to flights being halted. I think the EU has said that UK airlines would be able to fly between the UK and EU only, not within the EU.
No , no, no.
Insurance is not an issue - even the point you raise above is non insurance related.
Even if the Insurance thing was not an utter red herring it would have been an issue for a lot of the european aviaton industry too.
Well I don't know the details of European aviation insurance but I do know that insurance issues often play a much more significant part in business decisions than is generally realised. For instance, one of the main reason why driverless cars have not yet gone into mass production is that insurers will not touch them because there is no satisfactory way of determining responsibility for an accident - was it a system error or was the operator at fault? Short of fitting the kind of black box technology used on aircraft in all cars every accident would be the subject of intractable dispute.
Um, you can get car black boxes. You can get lower rates from your insurer if you install one.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
Foxy.....when you look back at 2010 when you voted Tory....do you still think that was a good choice?
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
I take your point. I voted Cameron as he seemed to be a rare sane Tory leader, but I was happier still with the Coalition, which led to a golden era of competent government. I voted against him in 2015 so feel no responsibility for the chaos and incompetence of the last 2 1/2 years.
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Agreed. I can't see myself ever crossing their box again. But you never know in politics.
I certainly will not vote for them, especially if Labour ditches Corbyn for a more moderate centrist
The minority of the votes is - as has been stated by various people - irrelevant
The case is simple:
1. the major parties nominate candidates for the Presidency (I’m ignoring the theoretical possibility of an independent winning for simplicity)
2. Voters indicate a preference for the presidential candidates of one or other of the parties
3. On the basis of the votes cast an electoral college is formed
4. The Electors then cast their votes as set out in state legislation (I believe in most cases they are tied - at least on the first ballot)
5. This results in the choice of a President and his running mate is appointed VP
My view is that the appropriate thing to do if there is a requirement to replace one of other of these roles for the house to act as an agent on behalf of the electoral college. The voters have said “we want the candidate of party X”, the EC has done its part and the House should feel morally obligated not to over ride the wishes of the electorate.
They should. But then again Americans don't have by-elections in the way we understand them. What happens when say a Democrat Senator is elected in a state which allows the Governor to nominate a replacement on the first Senators death and the Governor is from GOP?
Does the GOP Governor normally nominate a new Democrat Senator (along your principles) or a new GOP Senator (following his own partisanship)?
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed but iass a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
If the WA fails to pass the Commons and May, as I suspect, switches to a policy of managed No Deal, will you continue to support the Government?
Second question, if the Government decides to introduce legislation revoking A50, would you support it even if it comes at an electoral price for the Conservatives?
"Managed no deal" is another unicorn. There is no such option. No deal means no deal, with any "management" from the EU side being designed to help the EU and trash the UK.
Na, there would undoubtedly be bilateral arrangements to keep things ticking over, unless you seriously think planes will not be able to land.
Insurance might be the issue that halts flights.
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
Bilateral agreements will be put in place
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
I won't speak to insurance, but I will speak to bilateralism. There is an ongoing assumption amongst many people, leavers and remainers alike, that bilateral arrangements will be installed to mitigate bad effects. I remind you that a) every attempt to bypass the EU since the ref was announced by speaking to the member states directly has failed, and b) if I understand correctly (Ivan Rogers?) any mitigation emplaced by the EU will be for the EUs benefit, not necessarily ours.
When I used the word bilateral, I was referring to bilateral deals between EU and UK, as oppose to unilateral decisions/actions by the EU. Agreed deals with individual nations would be more difficult.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
I've got a feeling that for some of them even No Deal is not a hard enough Brexit!
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
There is, unfortunately, something in what you say. Not to say that every person who wants a harder deal or no deal believes that, but there have been comments along the lines of 'The EU is happy with it, therefore it is unacceptable', which rather misunderstands what a deal is, since when one works of course both sides are happy (in the sense of accepting it that is, not necessarily outright pleased at what they got).
It is all still rather depressing - there still seems nothing available except no deal and remain, each difficult in their own ways, though I hope fears over the former are indeed over hyped given how possible it is.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The ones to watch are the cohort that will grow up witnessing the long term fallout of the Great Brexit Omnishambles first hand. They'll grow up to be almost embarassingly pro-EU in a way not considered possible before Brexit showed not just the UK, but the whole world, what an infitinitely shambolic disaster trying to leave was.
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
I suspect that you will be disappointed. Why must you exaggerate?
The horror stories will turn out to be fairy tales, and we'll be arguing whether GDP would have been 2-3% more or less had we Remained.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
There is, unfortunately, something in what you say. Not to say that every person who wants a harder deal or no deal believes that, but there have been comments along the lines of 'The EU is happy with it, therefore it is unacceptable', which rather misunderstands what a deal is, since when one works of course both sides are happy (in the sense of accepting it that is, not necessarily outright pleased at what they got).
It is all still rather depressing - there still seems nothing available except no deal and remain, each difficult in their own ways, though I hope fears over the former are indeed over hyped given how possible it is.
Sigh, here's to a very crappy year ahead.
Wrong, as Yougov showed voters in 372 constituencies prefer the Deal to No Deal or Remain head to head.
Once EUref2 is voted down in the Commons the Deal becomes the default alternative to No Deal
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
There is, unfortunately, something in what you say. Not to say that every person who wants a harder deal or no deal believes that, but there have been comments along the lines of 'The EU is happy with it, therefore it is unacceptable', which rather misunderstands what a deal is, since when one works of course both sides are happy (in the sense of accepting it that is, not necessarily outright pleased at what they got).
It is all still rather depressing - there still seems nothing available except no deal and remain, each difficult in their own ways, though I hope fears over the former are indeed over hyped given how possible it is.
Sigh, here's to a very crappy year ahead.
It should be possible in a mature discussion to get a mutually-satisfactory deal.
Unfortunately the EU and certain individuals (Selmayr and Varadkar especially) seem to be determined to avoid that.
The LDs definitely saved the Tory establishment from their worst excesses.
When the coalition was formed I expected the Tories to co-opt the Lib Dems into a position similar to that of the National Liberals in the 1930s. This would have enabled Cameron to marginalise the right and turn the Tories into a New Labour-style dominant centrist force. But Cameron opted instead to appease the right and dump on the Lib Dems, a major strategic misjudgement which led directly to the circumstances in which he made his fateful decision to hold the EU referendum.
Yes, there is certainly something in that. Cameron didn't expect and didn't really want his majority in 2015.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
I am personally in favour of Theresa's deal, however, even though it's crap and she's rubbish at negotiating there's no realistic alternative. No deal would be a disaster economically and politically and Remain would result in a generation of political and social upheaval and the only way to get remain is to do it without a public vote, the alternative puts no deal on a ballot paper which the government will never do.
@tse if their love and loyalty for the EU is as you suggest, then they must accept that such love and loyalty is not shared by the vast majority of Conservative voters, and a parting of the ways is necessary.
The greatest of all Tories, Mrs Thatcher, governed as a very pro European politician.
Great Tories lead, not follow their party.
The Single Market was one of Thatcher's finest achievements and plenty of Tories are waking up to the fact the UK's departure from the Single Market cheers up the enemies of the UK like Vladimir Putin and Jeremy Corbyn.
At this point I'd rather befriend Putin than the Britain hating shits in Brussels. Your side is the side of Junker, selmayr and Barnier. Your side is the side of Merkel, who has destabilised the whole continent. Your side seeks to sell this nation out to this lot so Tony Blair doesn't lose his place on the gravy train.
This is why No Deal remains very likely. Many Leavers are so vitreolic that they believe that any Deal acceptable to the EU is a sellout to the enemy.
There is, unfortunately, something in what you say. Not to say that every person who wants a harder deal or no deal believes that, but there have been comments along the lines of 'The EU is happy with it, therefore it is unacceptable', which rather misunderstands what a deal is, since when one works of course both sides are happy (in the sense of accepting it that is, not necessarily outright pleased at what they got).
It is all still rather depressing - there still seems nothing available except no deal and remain, each difficult in their own ways, though I hope fears over the former are indeed over hyped given how possible it is.
Sigh, here's to a very crappy year ahead.
That's one dismal viewpoint.
It's counterpart on the Remain side is that any deal we strike with the EU is just retribution, for leaving.
Much depends on whether anti-EU or pro-EU Conservatives end up in charge.
Up to quite recently I was convinced we would Leave next March, deal or no deal but that CJEU has been a game changer.
Dominic Grieve will die on a hill for the EU. How many other Conservatives think likewise?
Jo Johnson, Sarah Wollaston, Anna Soubry to name three further patriots who put the UK before party.
I know you're just trolling but it is sad that there are as many as 4 deluded EU lovers in our party who can't wait to sell our nation out to Brussels at every possible opportunity. Truly their treachery is complete.
It's likely to be a Conservative government that takes England into the Euro.
All the senior Tories who backed the UK joining the Euro e.g. Heath, Heseltine, Ken Clarke are either dead, no longer in the Commons or on the backbenches. Even Labour is now far more anti Euro under Corbyn than it was under Blair.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
The ones to watch are the cohort that will grow up witnessing the long term fallout of the Great Brexit Omnishambles first hand. They'll grow up to be almost embarassingly pro-EU in a way not considered possible before Brexit showed not just the UK, but the whole world, what an infitinitely shambolic disaster trying to leave was.
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
Alternatively:
Scotland has no choice but to stay in the unhappy marriage and make the best of it. Northern Ireland lives with its "best of both" status and gets on with life until... ...the EU collapses under the weight of its own contradictions.
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
The British public do not care.
And the British voting public are ALWAYS right, apparently.
No 55% Yes 45%
Since you brought up the Scottish rather than the British public...
The minority of the votes is - as has been stated by various people - irrelevant
The case is simple:
1. the major parties nominate candidates for the Presidency (I’m ignoring the theoretical possibility of an independent winning for simplicity)
2. Voters indicate a preference for the presidential candidates of one or other of the parties
3. On the basis of the votes cast an electoral college is formed
4. The Electors then cast their votes as set out in state legislation (I believe in most cases they are tied - at least on the first ballot)
5. This results in the choice of a President and his running mate is appointed VP
My view is that the appropriate thing to do if there is a requirement to replace one of other of these roles for the house to act as an agent on behalf of the electoral college. The voters have said “we want the candidate of party X”, the EC has done its part and the House should feel morally obligated not to over ride the wishes of the electorate.
They should. But then again Americans don't have by-elections in the way we understand them. What happens when say a Democrat Senator is elected in a state which allows the Governor to nominate a replacement on the first Senators death and the Governor is from GOP?
Does the GOP Governor normally nominate a new Democrat Senator (along your principles) or a new GOP Senator (following his own partisanship)?
Charles has already said he doesn’t care - only the presidency matters when it comes to his particular view of democratic norms (which shares something with the now standard Republican view that they only apply to Democrats).
Scotland has no choice but to stay in the unhappy marriage and make the best of it. Northern Ireland lives with its "best of both" status and gets on with life until... ...the EU collapses under the weight of its own contradictions.
Comments
The voters were warned about the risks of No Deal but they still voted to Leave so the government has to Leave next March.
No Deal or revoking Article 50 I think the Tories are buggered either way.
The politicians didn't listen when it came to letting in millions of illegal immigrants into Europe and now they are reaping what they sowed. Europe will only know sorrow and division for a generation of it continues on this path.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6533341/Jeremy-Corbyn-ranked-forth-list-worlds-biggest-threats-Jews-human-rights-group.html
The Simon Wiesenthal Center ranked him three spots below the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter, Neo-Nazi Robert Bowers, and warned the Labour leader posed an ‘existential threat to Jews in the UK’.
Has anyone ever made such a claim about any other leader of a major party in the UK?
Would be just the sort of elitist balderdash on which a successful Tory election campaign would be run.
Have you asked that nice Mr Putin if they did it?
The moral imperative is that it should be someone from the same party that the electoral college selected
I’m really struggling to see why people think it it is ok to play partisan games with the most important elected position in the world
I suspect the WA will fall on the first vote and in the atmosphere of crisis that will provoke, May will head off to Brussels and plead with the EU leaders to make some changes so it can clear the Commons.
I'm not sure if they will or won't - if they do and it comes back again and it fails a second time, I think May will switch to a managed No Deal and use the last two months to try to do as much as is possible to mitigate the effects of No Deal.
A second referendum is obfuscation and won't happen - the question is whether there will be an attempt in the Commons to introduce legislation to revoke A50 as provided by the CJEU judgement. Oddly enough, that could work to the electoral advantage of the Conservatives if it was seen as the Opposition (and pro-EU Conservative MPs) trying to thwart the will of the people.
If it were to be instigated by the Government, however, as a way of preventing No Deal, what kind of electoral price would the Conservatives be prepared to pay for abandoning or betraying the majority of their supporters who voted LEAVE?
The UK might be uninsurable in the eyes of many companies given the lack of legal framework because we've effectively repealed the 1972 ECA and have nothing else in its place.
I mean how would it cover a EU citizen flying into the UK from a country that doesn't have a bilateral agreement?
As Yougov also showed recently 372 constituencies, ie a clear majority, prefer the Deal head to head against both No Deal and Remain so the Deal could even win EUref2
A first class mind, and returned back to academia after leaving the Commons.
As far as I can see of the main parties only the LDs are still open to joining the Euro as well as reversing Brexit
Yes 45%
In 20 years:
The Kingdom of Scotland will have completed its transition from its temporary monetary union with rUK after independence to the Euro
Northern Ireland adopted the Euro as part of its unification with the Republic of Ireland
Opinion polls show 75% of the rUK population are now in favour of adopting the Euro.
Remain 62%
Leave 38%
Under the FTPA, amending a finance bill is no longer a confidence issue (stupidly, IMHO) which means the old rules around confidence are entirely unclear.
We are in a period of rapid constitutional innovation.
I remember vividly many of my colleagues were pissed off with the bureaucracy, namby pamby interventionism of New Labour and dallied with the Tories. But fuck me they played with the devil and paid the price.
But if necessary you have government sub underwriting
I cannot see myself voting Tory again. The party is now completely re-toxified.
Stopping plabszfkting, for example, would be perceived as a hostile act
No they weren’t competent. They were good at hiding their messes
I am happy to concede that Cable was as useless as May, but in general it has been the best government since Tony Blair's first term.
I also cannot see there ever being a majority for the Euro, even now 2/3 oppose it still even if some polls show voters would reverse Brexit and back Remain. If we did join the EU more likely it would be as associate embers in an outer ring with non Eurozone members like Sweden and Denmark and Poland
Well, as an aviation insurance market practitioner I can hopefully reassure you that Insurance will remain in place and new covers purchased.
Insurance is not an issue - even the point you raise above is non insurance related.
Even if the Insurance thing was not an utter red herring it would have been an issue for a lot of the european aviaton industry too.
Everyone back into the trenches!
For instance, one of the main reason why driverless cars have not yet gone into mass production is that insurers will not touch them because there is no satisfactory way of determining responsibility for an accident - was it a system error or was the operator at fault? Short of fitting the kind of black box technology used on aircraft in all cars every accident would be the subject of intractable dispute.
The issue isn't insurance alone, the issue is that the technology is still in its infancy, it is coming though. We already have semi-autonomous vehicles - and live testing of driverless vehicles in certain states across the Pond.
It's funny how Westminster still keeps school holidays, it's almost like some of them have never left school.
They can stay away as long as they like. As each day ticks down we're getting closer and closer to leaving the EU.
Does the GOP Governor normally nominate a new Democrat Senator (along your principles) or a new GOP Senator (following his own partisanship)?
It is all still rather depressing - there still seems nothing available except no deal and remain, each difficult in their own ways, though I hope fears over the former are indeed over hyped given how possible it is.
Sigh, here's to a very crappy year ahead.
The horror stories will turn out to be fairy tales, and we'll be arguing whether GDP would have been 2-3% more or less had we Remained.
Once EUref2 is voted down in the Commons the Deal becomes the default alternative to No Deal
Unfortunately the EU and certain individuals (Selmayr and Varadkar especially) seem to be determined to avoid that.
It's counterpart on the Remain side is that any deal we strike with the EU is just retribution, for leaving.
Scotland has no choice but to stay in the unhappy marriage and make the best of it.
Northern Ireland lives with its "best of both" status and gets on with life until...
...the EU collapses under the weight of its own contradictions.