Holding the country to ransom is an utter disgrace. If other Tories cannot see how toxic this is to their party then they deserve to disappear as a party.
There is no polling evidence it is damaging either TM or the party. Her 47% approval rating in Opinium yesterday was the highest since she was elected in 2016 while Corbyn falls further and further down tne ratings.
In truth everyone is frustrated with each other and we have the most abject politicians in the HOC I can recall
I respect you a great deal as a poster. But you are taking far too much comfort from the polls now. The Tories are making themselves toxic, whatever the opinion polls currently say. There are lots of voters, like me, who might be persuaded to vote Tory to keep out Corbyn. But not anymore. I may vote for the Lib Dems or, a la Meeks, abstain in person. (In truth, in London my vote no longer matters. But in Cumbria where I will likely be living by 2022 the Tory MP has a majority of 2000 so my vote will matter there.)
It does not take many Tory or potential Tory voters to sit on their hands for Labour to win. There are plenty of voters who feel furious about what is happening on the domestic agenda e.g. the continuing mess with the railways and would be OK with Labour doing something about a service which causes a nuisance every working day. Or Universal Credit. If the Tories continue as they are, with the delusions that a no-deal and likely chaotic Brexit will be all right on the night if they can't force agreement on a deal which no-one wants, then they will likely lose a lot of votes, no matter how awful they might think Corbyn is.
I no longer have any patience with the Tory party's nervous breakdown. I won't be the only voter who feels this way.
The most likely outcome of an election tomorrow is the Tories largest party but Corbyn PM propped up by the SNP
Depends on which poll you look at. Latest Opinium implies a 1.7% swing to Labour which would result in 24 Labour gains from Tories. I would also expect Labour to pick up Copeland as a consequence of by election unwind.. That would put Labour on 287. Gains from SNP could well take them to circa 300 seats. Tories would be on circa 290.
LOL, they will lose to SNP not gain, do you realise how unpopular they are in Scotland.
Labour's poll ratings in Scotland are well above the levels recorded prior to the 2017 election. SNP ratings are lower
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
Is there polling evidence for this or is it just wishful thinking on your part?
Most recent Panelbase has SNP on 37% with Labour and Tories both on 26%. .In recent years SNP has consistently underperformed its poll ratings. In a Westminster election SNP unlikely to poll above circa 33%.
So wishful thinking. Got it.
Well - in 2017 I predicted 4 or 5 Labour MPs to be returned in Scotland and was lampooned on here for so doing. In the event , I was a bit off . Maybe so again!
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
LOL, they will lose to SNP not gain, do you realise how unpopular they are in Scotland.
The thing about Scotland is that it's now a four party system trying to game an electoral system designed for a two party system. There are basically no safe seats in Scotland. It would only take a couple of points swing from the SNP to the Tories and half the SNP's seats in Scotland could flip to Labour.
(N.B. this is a very good argument for why FTPT *especially* sucks in Scotland)
Very true. A 20 point lead for Labour would be the likely result for almost any successor
If only he would step down and accept that, in doing so, his legacy would be that the Tories could deservedly be out of office for two or three terms.
Not sure about that. His successor (if the change happened now) would share his radical left politics but would not have the 'authentic old geezer' aura that appeals to many. That spells a drop in net support not a rise. I think if the people powering the Corbyn project judged that replacing him would gain 20 points, or even close, they would be counselling him out.
The authentic old geezer aura has been gradually fading since the last election. Unfortunately, if you are a Labour supporter, his baggage hasn't and has only increased. While I agree that any successor is likely to have left wing views, I don't think left wing policies would be greeted with the same negativity as those who would refuse to vote for Labour while he is leader.
And if he gave his full support to his chosen successor, then Labour would retain the goodwill of the Corbyn fanatics.
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
The ERG are not Maoists. Indeed, the communist dictatorship their views most closely mirror the official doctrine of is North Korea.
In the speech "On Socialist Construction and the South Korean Revolution in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea" given on 14 April 1965, Kim Il-sung outlined the three fundamental principles of Juche:
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
Never saw any point to Patten but if he is going to help Remain lose a second referendum, long May he continue making a fool of himself.
The ERG are totally disorganised and arrogant but it difficult to say their view of how the EU treats Britain is wrong.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
If you’re making major decisions about the future of the country based on what one person says about another, I don’t think you’re doing democracy right.
LOL, they will lose to SNP not gain, do you realise how unpopular they are in Scotland.
The thing about Scotland is that it's now a four party system trying to game an electoral system designed for a two party system. There are basically no safe seats in Scotland. It would only take a couple of points swing from the SNP to the Tories and half the SNP's seats in Scotland could flip to Labour.
Indeed - I would not be surprised to see Labour poll 30% in Scotland next time.The Tories have probably peaked there - and could even lose a few seats in NE Scotland back to SNP.
The authentic old geezer aura has been gradually fading since the last election. Unfortunately, if you are a Labour supporter, his baggage hasn't and has only increased. While I agree that any successor is likely to have left wing views, I don't think left wing policies would be greeted with the same negativity as those who would refuse to vote for Labour while he is leader.
And if he gave his full support to his chosen successor, then Labour would retain the goodwill of the Corbyn fanatics.
His personal brand has peaked, I do agree with that. I sometimes suspect that he is essentially a front man for a group of more serious and driven individuals around him who want to attain real political power far more than he does. Which is why, as I say, I would expect them to be easing him out if they were of the firm view that he had become an electoral liability.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
LOL, they will lose to SNP not gain, do you realise how unpopular they are in Scotland.
The thing about Scotland is that it's now a four party system trying to game an electoral system designed for a two party system. There are basically no safe seats in Scotland. It would only take a couple of points swing from the SNP to the Tories and half the SNP's seats in Scotland could flip to Labour.
(N.B. this is a very good argument for why FTPT *especially* sucks in Scotland)
Four?
SNP, Tories and Labour makes three. Then assorted oddballs.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
All of our citizens can live and work anywhere in the EU.
We benefit from the trade deals negotiated by the EU, with their greater muscle (most recently Japan).
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
All of our citizens can live and work anywhere in the EU.
We benefit from the trade deals negotiated by the EU, with their greater muscle (most recently Japan).
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
All of our citizens can live and work anywhere in the EU.
We benefit from the trade deals negotiated by the EU, with their greater muscle (most recently Japan).
Our boats can fish in other countries’ waters.
All that was true at the time of the referendum when we voted to be independent. Shame those who voted Remain didn’t have any respect for democracy and our political class just want to be paid a lot of money for doing what Brussels tells them.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
All details of how the EU operates were voluntarily approved by UK PMs in the Council of Ministers. At the time, our PM would have had a veto over all of this.
Much of your ire should be aimed at Whitehall. It wastes far more money than the EU does. EU spending is 1% of total member states' GDP.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
So acc9rding to that article itbus reasonable to claim that 55% or our laws come from the EU and possible to claim 65% with some justification.
That is certainly a majority if not most.
No it doesn't. It demonstrates that it is not black and white. It's shades of grey depending on your definition of 'laws'. Therefore it is misleading to claim that 'most of our laws are made in Brussels'.
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
If you’re making major decisions about the future of the country based on what one person says about another, I don’t think you’re doing democracy right.
But such things matter. A lot. They insinuate much about true motives, agenda and, most of all, respect.
A Remain campaign dominated by Blair, Heseltine, Patton, Campbell and Soubry is smugly talking to Itself and doomed to defeat.
The authentic old geezer aura has been gradually fading since the last election. Unfortunately, if you are a Labour supporter, his baggage hasn't and has only increased. While I agree that any successor is likely to have left wing views, I don't think left wing policies would be greeted with the same negativity as those who would refuse to vote for Labour while he is leader.
And if he gave his full support to his chosen successor, then Labour would retain the goodwill of the Corbyn fanatics.
His personal brand has peaked, I do agree with that. I sometimes suspect that he is essentially a front man for a group of more serious and driven individuals around him who want to attain real political power far more than he does. Which is why, as I say, I would expect them to be easing him out if they were of the firm view that he had become an electoral liability.
I agree with that. The Labour leader at the next election will be a woman.
I think the ERG are being total idiots but whenever I see tweets like that from creatures of the might like Patten it makes me want to back the hardest of Brexits.
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
Never saw any point to Patten but if he is going to help Remain lose a second referendum, long May he continue making a fool of himself.
The ERG are totally disorganised and arrogant but it difficult to say their view of how the EU treats Britain is wrong.
He was an EU Commissioner (and still is) an advocate of the UK joining the euro.
Putting such people front and centre of any Remain campaign is a gift to re-Leave as it will awaken voters darkest nightmares about European federalism.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
So acc9rding to that article itbus reasonable to claim that 55% or our laws come from the EU and possible to claim 65% with some justification.
That is certainly a majority if not most.
No it doesn't. It demonstrates that it is not black and white. It's shades of grey depending on your definition of 'laws'. Therefore it is misleading to claim that 'most of our laws are made in Brussels'.
Misleading and therefore an insult to democracy.
Nope. It is perfectly justified as your own article states. They also ties in with the study done by Full Fact which says 62% is justifiable depending on how you class regulations
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
I suppose that one could argue (although I personally wouldn't because it's a touch fatuous) that if it is impossible to leave the EU without jeopardizing our economy, our influence, and peace in Ireland (as right now appears might be the case), then it means that we are trapped inside it, and if so that indicates a very significant loss of sovereignty.
I seem to recall 52% voted for the UK to be an independent country too. Politicians only respect referenda if the result agrees with their own prejudices.
I don't recall UK ever being other than an independent county, TBH.
Most of the laws we enact these days emanate from Brussels using QMV. We can’t control our borders or immigration, we can’t strike trade deals on our own; we don’t control our fishing grounds etc. Not exactly what I would call independent.
So acc9rding to that article itbus reasonable to claim that 55% or our laws come from the EU and possible to claim 65% with some justification.
That is certainly a majority if not most.
No it doesn't. It demonstrates that it is not black and white. It's shades of grey depending on your definition of 'laws'. Therefore it is misleading to claim that 'most of our laws are made in Brussels'.
Misleading and therefore an insult to democracy.
Nope. It is perfectly justified as your own article states. They also ties in with the study done by Full Fact which says 62% is justifiable depending on how you class regulations
Exactly. FFS. Democracy is dead when lies are spread as facts.
I agree with that. The Labour leader at the next election will be a woman.
They almost certainly do have to pick a woman. And the safe 'Fiona Bruce' choice would be Emily Thornberry, I suppose. She is the favourite and has been for ages. Don't know about a new leader for the next election though. For 2022, yes, but hard to see it for 2019.
I agree with that. The Labour leader at the next election will be a woman.
They almost certainly do have to pick a woman. And the safe 'Fiona Bruce' choice would be Emily Thornberry, I suppose. She is the favourite and has been for ages. Don't know about a new leader for the next election though. For 2022, yes, but hard to see it for 2019.
She's too divisive. Yvette Cooper would be a better choice.
I agree with that. The Labour leader at the next election will be a woman.
They almost certainly do have to pick a woman. And the safe 'Fiona Bruce' choice would be Emily Thornberry, I suppose. She is the favourite and has been for ages. Don't know about a new leader for the next election though. For 2022, yes, but hard to see it for 2019.
She's too divisive. Yvette Cooper would be a better choice.
No one can do faux outrage like her. She slipped very cleanly from defending the dreadful criteria drawn up for atos to use in assessing people’s capability to work, and criticising with fervour only months later as shadow.
Also, One of the louder critics of the ‘bedroom tax’ which was a mirroring of the exact same rules for administering housing benefit entitlement for private tenants introduced in 2007 when she was minster for housing.
And didn’t she offer to put a child refugee in her home?
Comments
Such people will do everything they can to ensure Remain loses again in any second referendum.
(N.B. this is a very good argument for why FTPT *especially* sucks in Scotland)
And if he gave his full support to his chosen successor, then Labour would retain the goodwill of the Corbyn fanatics.
In the speech "On Socialist Construction and the South Korean Revolution in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea" given on 14 April 1965, Kim Il-sung outlined the three fundamental principles of Juche:
Political independence (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자주; RR: jaju; MR: chaju)
Economic self-sustenance (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자립; RR: jarip; MR: charip)
Self-reliance in defence (Chosŏn'gŭl: 자위; RR: jawi; MR: chawi)
The ERG are totally disorganised and arrogant but it difficult to say their view of how the EU treats Britain is wrong.
https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1074305629722947584
SNP, Tories and Labour makes three. Then assorted oddballs.
We benefit from the trade deals negotiated by the EU, with their greater muscle (most recently Japan).
Our boats can fish in other countries’ waters.
Much of your ire should be aimed at Whitehall. It wastes far more money than the EU does. EU spending is 1% of total member states' GDP.
That is certainly a majority if not most.
Misleading and therefore an insult to democracy.
NEW THREAD
A Remain campaign dominated by Blair, Heseltine, Patton, Campbell and Soubry is smugly talking to Itself and doomed to defeat.
Putting such people front and centre of any Remain campaign is a gift to re-Leave as it will awaken voters darkest nightmares about European federalism.
Also, One of the louder critics of the ‘bedroom tax’ which was a mirroring of the exact same rules for administering housing benefit entitlement for private tenants introduced in 2007 when she was minster for housing.
And didn’t she offer to put a child refugee in her home?