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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Taking stock. Brexit – just where are we and what are the opti

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    geoffw said:

    Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish prime minister, has said Madrid will sabotage the Brexit deal unless it is given a veto over the future UK-EU trade deal applying to Gibraltar as his foreign minister said a second referendum in Britain would be undemocratic.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/20/brexit-latest-justice-minister-says-mps-will-respond-business/

    It cannot on its own. The deal is QMV
    Surely the deal will need to be ratified in the Cortes.?.......sounds like a veto to me (though sSnchez's voting numbers are weak in that chamber)
    Spain cannot take the deal down on its own under QMV
    I thought they had a veto in the event that UK and Spain could not agree a trade deal over Gibralter
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite. May's approach of prevaricating at home and capitulating overseas has been horrendous.

    Ah, 'capitulation'

    Another leaver with fevered brow ...
    The gaslighting of leavers on here is all a bit sad.
    LOL. A leaver called me an 'unbending fanatic' on this very thread.

    It's all someone else's fault.
    Whataboutery followed by complaints about whataboutery. Lolza.



  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish prime minister, has said Madrid will sabotage the Brexit deal unless it is given a veto over the future UK-EU trade deal applying to Gibraltar as his foreign minister said a second referendum in Britain would be undemocratic.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/20/brexit-latest-justice-minister-says-mps-will-respond-business/

    It cannot on its own. The deal is QMV
    When they talk of sabotage I doubt that the niceties of voting rules come into play.
    Yes I suspect that the Royal Navy are going to be quite busy protecting our fishing waters - if May doesn't give access away as part of the next phase.

    LOL, we will not have any , Tories will give them away at the drop of a hat. All those poor suckers in the North East that were taken in yet again by Tories with forked tongues.
    Indeed malc

    https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1064489330415157248
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), quite. May's approach of prevaricating at home and capitulating overseas has been horrendous.

    Ah, 'capitulation'

    Another leaver with fevered brow ...
    The gaslighting of leavers on here is all a bit sad.
    LOL. A leaver called me an 'unbending fanatic' on this very thread.

    It's all someone else's fault.
    Whataboutery followed by complaints about whataboutery. Lolza.
    I'm glad you're amused. ;)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    TGOHF said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Pedro Sanchez, the Spanish prime minister, has said Madrid will sabotage the Brexit deal unless it is given a veto over the future UK-EU trade deal applying to Gibraltar as his foreign minister said a second referendum in Britain would be undemocratic.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/20/brexit-latest-justice-minister-says-mps-will-respond-business/

    It cannot on its own. The deal is QMV
    When they talk of sabotage I doubt that the niceties of voting rules come into play.
    Yes I suspect that the Royal Navy are going to be quite busy protecting our fishing waters - if May doesn't give access away as part of the next phase.

    We do not have enough boats to patrol our waters in any case, we could put our 400 admirals out in rowing boats mind you.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    currystar said:

    CD13 said:

    There is deep suspicion about the motives of some Remain voters. The nonsense of a 'peoples' referendum' doesn't help; does that mean that the referendum in 2016 was restricted to animals? The concept that democracy means we can vote every other day until we get the right result?

    Most Remain voters I know were disappointed with the result, but few think it should be re-run. Those that do generally favour a re-run don't give a monkey's about democracy, they just want their side to win.

    I occasionally ask what a re-run referendum with a narrow majority for one side would achieve. The answer is more bitterness, whatever the result.

    Parliament agreed to ask the people for a verdict. When they received it, they agreed to implement it. Saying now … Parliament is split on the way forward so we must ask the people again .. makes no sense. Unless you mean ... We didn't like the answer, try again.

    Every 5 years or so we have the opportunity to overturn the result of the previous General Election. Is that undemocratic?
    I have no idea why people compare General Elections to Referendums, they are completely different things
    Indeed. They are both exercises in democracy, in which the electorate get to make their decision on what is put in front of them.

    With a General Election, however, if the result gives politicians something that they don't want to enact, they can choose to avoid implementing their manifesto (what they promised to the electorate and on which they won the vote) by going back to the country on an unscheduled vote a couple of years later (or even sooner). This is legitimate and democratic.

    With a Referendum, however, going back to the country a couple of years later (or even sooner) is not legitimate or democratic for reasons.
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