As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if eccentric.
The problem with Rod was not eccentricity, it was his obsession with his second favourite subject after polling...the Jews and especially holocaust. At times he made red ken look balanced.
When Ken said, do you know somebody else that was obsessed with Jews, more than one answer flicked through my head. I have to confess if this was my blog and I was responsible for what was published here I would feel pretty cautious.
I miss Stewart Dickson a lot. His sin of Scottish subsamples looks pretty modest after the polling fiascoes of the last few years and he had wit, something I will always forgive a lot for.
It’s remarkable that Dickson was banned for quoting Scottish subsamples, despite repeated warnings. Seems a mild transgression in this modern era of fake news.
Quite. Stuart and Kelly were always fun to spar with.
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if a bit loopy on that whole Holocaust thingy.
Crosby was a holocaust denier and a virulent anti Semite. That he was PhD standard mathematics was hardly a mitigating factor. Agree that Stuart and particularly James were excellent. And what of Tim? A PB legend, and one you yourself sparred entertainingly with.
On a betting site, I'd have thought being PhD standard mathematician would be a pretty powerful mitigating factor!
It was. He was allowed a lot of slack and multiple warnings/post deletions where others would just have been kicked off.
But there was a point it couldn't be overlooked any more because he'd almost given up on the interesting stuff and that was just about all he was posting.
On the midterms, I’m starting to think we’re going to see an extreme result. The turnout factor might skew what the pollsters have been saying. At this moment in time I can see a Dem tsunami (big gains in the house and maybe even a tie or better in the senate) OR a rep hold of both houses. I’m not sure I see the oft-predicted modest dem gains to get a small house majority, coupled with a GOP narrow senate hold.
I think both sides have been energised by different subjects and could both turn out in huge numbers negating much of the effect of each other. The Dems have to hope their voters turn out efficiently (and are able to actually vote by the looks of things) while the GOP have to hope that suburban and rural whites come out to support Trump again like they did in 2016. If only one or the other happens we could be in for a big result though.
White women: they're the key. If they stick with the Republicans, then it will be a long night for the Democrats.
Yes, I think the intervention on the two fake allegations against Kavanaugh was probably timed to that effect. It's the "imagine your husband or son in that situation" tactic. I don't know how much mileage there will be in it and if it was too late by then. It also puts the focus on the fakers rather than what might be real sexual misconduct by someone closely associated with Trump which, again, will swing more white women back to his camp.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
As far as I can tell, she's not lurking.
How can you tell? Do you have a Plato detector?
Well, I can see the last visit by IP address, her address was last used in 2017. And there is no evidence that she's tried to register a new account. And the last visit by her login was also in 2017.
Maybe she changed her IP. I had the same IP for 10 years but it changed about a year ago. I have not vanished
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if a bit loopy on that whole Holocaust thingy.
Crosby was a holocaust denier and a virulent anti Semite. That he was PhD standard mathematics was hardly a mitigating factor. Agree that Stuart and particularly James were excellent. And what of Tim? A PB legend, and one you yourself sparred entertainingly with.
On a betting site, I'd have thought being PhD standard mathematician would be a pretty powerful mitigating factor!
It was. He was allowed a lot of slack and multiple warnings/post deletions where others would just have been kicked off.
But there was a point it couldn't be overlooked any more because he'd almost given up on the interesting stuff and that was just about all he was posting.
Well, fair enough. Having tried to mitigate a few wrong 'uns over the years who were duly sent down anyway I appreciate there's only so much slack you can expect to be cut.
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if a bit loopy on that whole Holocaust thingy.
Crosby was a holocaust denier and a virulent anti Semite. That he was PhD standard mathematics was hardly a mitigating factor. Agree that Stuart and particularly James were excellent. And what of Tim? A PB legend, and one you yourself sparred entertainingly with.
On a betting site, I'd have thought being PhD standard mathematician would be a pretty powerful mitigating factor!
Not really when he was a virulent anti Semite who denied the holocaust of six million Jews. I think that’s rather hard to mitigate, wherever you are.
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Seconded
If we're unbanning people then @archer101au was one of the most articulate and interesting Brexiters.
Is he banned? I enjoyed sparring with him.
Aren’t you Banmaster General?
Although Robert will deny it, we all know he has a massive red BAN button on the PB website dashboard that when clicked plays a tune and showers the screen with party streamers.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Would you care to elaborate on which golden rule Archer broke?
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if a bit loopy on that whole Holocaust thingy.
Crosby was a holocaust denier and a virulent anti Semite. That he was PhD standard mathematics was hardly a mitigating factor. Agree that Stuart and particularly James were excellent. And what of Tim? A PB legend, and one you yourself sparred entertainingly with.
On a betting site, I'd have thought being PhD standard mathematician would be a pretty powerful mitigating factor!
Not really when he was a virulent anti Semite who denied the holocaust of six million Jews. I think that’s rather hard to mitigate, wherever you are.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
I was "sin-binned" once but Mike was very kind when I emailed him.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
As an aside, I weirdly ended up stood next to Toby Jones, on the Victoria line, of all places, last week. Now he is TINY. I knew he was small, but IRL, he is truly pocket sized. And very distinctive looking. What a very rich actor like him was doing on the Tube in rush hour I do not know, but there he was. He alighted at Kings Cross.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
I was once invited down to the court at an NBA game....I remember what it was like being a 5 year old again...
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
I appreciate ignorance is no excuse but how would one fall foul of 3)? People often post links to paywalled stuff but if you don't subscribe you can't follow those links (albeit there's a workaround for the FT )
As an aside, does anybody know what's happened to Plato?
I know she's banned from here. And then she was banned from Twitter. And then she migrated to Gab. And then six months ago. *Poof* she stopped.
Does anybody know if she's OK?
You have the power - unban her and see if she is lurking....
Relatedly, it's on days like this I miss PB-ers like Rod Crosby, James Kelly and Stuart Dickson. They could all be eccentric and prickly, but they all brought some serious and clever analysis.
This is especially true of Crosby. Sometimes you have to tolerate the madness of the genius, to get the genius. He was super smart, if a bit loopy on that whole Holocaust thingy.
Crosby was a holocaust denier and a virulent anti Semite. That he was PhD standard mathematics was hardly a mitigating factor. Agree that Stuart and particularly James were excellent. And what of Tim? A PB legend, and one you yourself sparred entertainingly with.
On a betting site, I'd have thought being PhD standard mathematician would be a pretty powerful mitigating factor!
He told someone who lost a family member in the holocaust that they didn't die and probably just deliberately hid from their family.
To be fair, many of Rod's own family members feigned death to avoid him.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Were you at a barbecue when that was taken?
As it so happens yes, and we both had serious expressions (at my request) as I was going to send the photo and commentary to an irate constituent!
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
They look reasonably tall, over 6ft clearly, but there's nothing obvious, like they are absurdly lanky or anything, it takes you by surprise. Rugby players can be downright terrifying - even the not massive ones are so dense when they stand next to someone of normal size. I feel like I'm being affected by their gravitational pull.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Barnier's in your avatar!? Where? Is he stood behind Raab?
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
Is because you only ever see them next to other ludicrously proportioned pro sportsmen. You lose all sense of scale.
Bumping into rugby players around Edinburgh and Glasgow is a sun blocking out event.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
I appreciate ignorance is no excuse but how would one fall foul of 3)? People often post links to paywalled stuff but if you don't subscribe you can't follow those links (albeit there's a workaround for the FT )
Copying and pasting. Breach of paywall and breach of copyright.
Wasn't it The Times somebody posted whole articles from in the early paywall days and Murdoch's lawyers got nasty?
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Would you care to elaborate on which golden rule Archer broke?
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
That was me. I banned Scott_P for being rude about Radiohead.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
That was me. I banned Scott_P for being rude about Radiohead.
I thought you just said you'd never banned anybody?
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
I met dallaglio at a pool in Vegas. The man not only blocks the sun out, but he is like he has been carved from rock. The thought of running full whack into that body, a brick wall would probably be less painful.
Although Robert will deny it, we all know he has a massive red BAN button on the PB website dashboard that when clicked plays a tune and showers the screen with party streamers.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Barnier's in your avatar!? Where? Is he stood behind Raab?
LoL, he was delicious with the barbecued sausages!!
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Barnier's in your avatar!? Where? Is he stood behind Raab?
LoL, he was delicious with the barbecued sausages!!
Presumably Juncker was already under the table by then
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
That was me. I banned Scott_P for being rude about Radiohead.
I think you should carry on enforcing that standard. Free pineapple pizzas for anyone who transgresses.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
Didn't you once ban somebody for saying something uncomplimentary about Radiohead?
That was me. I banned Scott_P for being rude about Radiohead.
I thought you just said you'd never banned anybody?
I was wrong.
I have banned exactly one person ever, Scott_P, for failure to appreciate music.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
Is because you only ever see them next to other ludicrously proportioned pro sportsmen. You lose all sense of scale.
Bumping into rugby players around Edinburgh and Glasgow is a sun blocking out event.
That was the thing about the stokes incident. The power of elite sports people, I don’t think they even realise just how much stronger they are than the general population.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
The docks at Bristol have always been notoriously small. It's one of the reasons it declined as a port. He probably simply couldn't fit in.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
I met dallaglio at a pool in Vegas. The man not only blocks the sun out, but he is like he has been carved from rock. The thought of running full whack into that body, a brick wall would probably be less painful.
When I was 6 or 7 I met Hick and Moody, then my heroes. They were huge!
Was sat at a table net to Broad at the Ivy on the KR a couple of years ago. He was tall, but in my head all cricketers are giants, because of that early encounter with Hick/Moody. It was quite a disappointment.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
Probably Barnier? Anyway, he's in my avatar. I'm 5'6" (but perfectly formed nonetheless!), so make your own guess.
Were you at a barbecue when that was taken?
As it so happens yes, and we both had serious expressions (at my request) as I was going to send the photo and commentary to an irate constituent!
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Hard to draw the line at how beefy is too beefy, how hard a hit precisely is too hard a hit. Body armour seems inevitable therefore. Don't most of them already now wear light shoulder protection?
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution. The weigh in on a Friday night could provide a tasty amuse bouche - too heavy? Time to swap some players out for a lighter alternative.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
I appreciate ignorance is no excuse but how would one fall foul of 3)? People often post links to paywalled stuff but if you don't subscribe you can't follow those links (albeit there's a workaround for the FT )
It's ok to copy and paste a little bit of a paywalled article with a link.
What gets people upset is copy and pasting whole articles from behind a paywall.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
I was talking about this with a friend of mine at lunch. He was the scrum half in his school's first 15 and at 5'9 was thought quite big for the role. His son now plays rugby for the same school and the scrum half is 6'3. Basically he is another flanker and plays as such.
Rugby always favoured the larger players but there used to be roles for a much wider range of body types. Once it was worked out that being 16 stone was no reason not to run seriously fast the game lost a lot of its charm and the danger level increased exponentially.
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Good point - is there a reason why it's always the swivel-eyed loons that get banned?
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
Is because you only ever see them next to other ludicrously proportioned pro sportsmen. You lose all sense of scale.
Bumping into rugby players around Edinburgh and Glasgow is a sun blocking out event.
That was the thing about the stokes incident. The power of elite sports people, I don’t think they even realise just how much stronger they are than the general population.
Yes, the law allows martial arts specialists to be treated as if they were armed should they seek to claim self defence. It's pretty hard to see why the same standard was not applied to Stokes. The consequences of his self defence were devastating.
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Good point - is there a reason why it's always the swivel-eyed loons that get banned?
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Good point - is there a reason why it's always the swivel-eyed loons that get banned?
Yes, I suppose it's the same with black people and issues around stabbing in London.
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
It seems he was responding to my post. I had no idea it had led to his excommunication.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
I met dallaglio at a pool in Vegas. The man not only blocks the sun out, but he is like he has been carved from rock. The thought of running full whack into that body, a brick wall would probably be less painful.
When I was 6 or 7 I met Hick and Moody, then my heroes. They were huge!
Was sat at a table net to Broad at the Ivy on the KR a couple of years ago. He was tall, but in my head all cricketers are giants, because of that early encounter with Hick/Moody. It was quite a disappointment.
I think I have told this story before on here, but will repeat it.
When I was youth cricketer, I got invited to a charity game (spectate not play). Me and my mate came out the pavilion and sat down to this little old West Indian lady doing her knitting. We started chatting about this and that and she informed us that her little boy was playing in the game today...we said oh well I hope he does ok, we know there is a whole load of current and former internationals playing...she said oh I am sure he will be ok, he plays quite a few of these charity games...
Then we noticed that it had gone very dark all of a sudden...no rain clouds hadn’t formed, there was a very large gentleman standing in front of us...oh here is my little boy said the woman, Joel, these two nice boys were asking if you will be ok playing in today’s game...Joel laughed deeply and asked if we wanted our mini autograph bats signed by the teams as he was just heading into the dressing room.
Mr garner appeared 15 mins with our bats signed by a who’s who of international cricketers.
Any chance Archer-From-Aus could be unbanned? I know he got on OGH's tits but he was pretty smart (or seemed to be to me)
As a general rule for not getting banned don't do any of the following
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
I appreciate ignorance is no excuse but how would one fall foul of 3)? People often post links to paywalled stuff but if you don't subscribe you can't follow those links (albeit there's a workaround for the FT )
It's ok to copy and paste a little bit of a paywalled article with a link.
What gets people upset is copy and pasting whole articles from behind a paywall.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution.
Makes sense, given the humungous amount of doping in modern rugby. They're carrying so much weight at greater speeds than ever before - look back at players from 30 years ago, it's like a different species.
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Good point - is there a reason why it's always the swivel-eyed loons that get banned?
Not all of them do - JWisemann is still around, intermittently, and still one sandwich short of a picnic. But comparing the person hosting - and paying for - the site to the editor of the Daily Mail was never likely to end well for Archer.
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
Posted from Terminal 2 at Lisbon Airport.
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Good point - is there a reason why it's always the swivel-eyed loons that get banned?
Yes, I suppose it's the same with black people and issues around stabbing in London.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution. The weigh in on a Friday night could provide a tasty amuse bouche - too heavy? Time to swap some players out for a lighter alternative.
That is a really good suggestion! The weigh-in for big internationals would add to RU's TV income too.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution. The weigh in on a Friday night could provide a tasty amuse bouche - too heavy? Time to swap some players out for a lighter alternative.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution.
Makes sense, given the humungous amount of doping in modern rugby. They're carrying so much weight at greater speeds than ever before - look back at players from 30 years ago, it's like a different species.
Allegedly in rugby....where as in the NFL it seems you are the odd one out if you haven’t been popped for PEDs.
Following complaints made to the IRB about the All Blacks being allowed to motivate themselves by performing the 'Haka' before their games, other nations were asked to suggest pre-match rituals of their own. The IRB Committee has now agreed to the following pre-match displays:
1. The England team will chat about the weather, wave hankies in the air and attach bells to their ankles before moaning about how they invented the game and gave it to the world, and how it's not fair that everyone still thinks New Zealand are the best team in the world.
2. The Scotland team will chant "You lookin' at me Jimmy?" before smashing an Irn Bru bottle over their opponents' heads.
3. The Ireland team will split into two, with the Southern half performing a Riverdance, while the Northerners march the Traditional route from their dressing room to the pitch, via their opponents dressing room.
4. Argentina will unexpectedly invade a small part of opposition territory, claim it as their own "Las In-Goals-Areas" and then be forcibly removed by the match stewards.
5. Two members of the South African team will claim to be more important than the other 13 whom they will imprison between the posts whilst they claim the rest of the pitch for themselves.
6. The Americans will not attend until almost full time. In future years they will amend the records to show that they were in fact the most important team in the tournament and Hollywood will make a film called 'Saving No.8 Lyle'.
7. Five of the Canadian team will sing La Marseillaise and hold the rest of the team to ransom.
8. The Italian team will arrive in Armani gear, sexually harass the female stewards and then run away.
9. The Spanish will sneak into the other half of the pitch, mow it and then claim that it was all in line with European "grass quotas". They will then curl up under the posts and have a kip until half time, when their appeal for compensation against the UK Government will be heard.
10. The Japanese will attempt to strengthen their team by offering good salaries to the key opposition players and then run around the pitch at high speed in a highly efficient manner before buying the ground (with a subsidy from the UK Government).
11. The French will declare they have new scientific evidence that the opposition are in fact all mad. They will then park lorries across the halfway line, let sheep loose in the opposition half (much to the delight of the WELSH) and burn the officials.
12. The Australians will have a barbie before negotiating lucrative singing and TV contracts in the UK. They will then invite all their mates to come and live with them in Shepherds Bush."
13. Unfortunately the Committee were unable to accept the Welsh suggestion following representations from the RSPCA.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
I met dallaglio at a pool in Vegas. The man not only blocks the sun out, but he is like he has been carved from rock. The thought of running full whack into that body, a brick wall would probably be less painful.
When I was 6 or 7 I met Hick and Moody, then my heroes. They were huge!
Was sat at a table net to Broad at the Ivy on the KR a couple of years ago. He was tall, but in my head all cricketers are giants, because of that early encounter with Hick/Moody. It was quite a disappointment.
I think I have told this story before on here, but will repeat it.
When I was youth cricketer, I got invited to a charity game (spectate not play). Me and my mate came out the pavilion and sat down to this little old West Indian lady doing her knitting. We started chatting about this and that and she informed us that her little boy was playing in the game today...we said oh well I hope he does ok, we know there is a whole load of current and former internationals playing...she said oh I am sure he will be ok, he plays quite a few of these charity games...
Then we noticed that it had gone very dark all of a sudden...no rain clouds hadn’t formed, there was a very large gentleman standing in front of us...oh here is my little boy said the woman, Joel, these two nice boys were asking if you will be ok playing in today’s game...Joel laughed deeply and asked if we wanted our mini autograph bats signed by the teams as he was just heading into the dressing room.
Mr garner appeared 15 mins with our bats signed by a who’s who of international cricketers.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Your analysis is correct, your solution wrong. Total team weight limits is the solution. The weigh in on a Friday night could provide a tasty amuse bouche - too heavy? Time to swap some players out for a lighter alternative.
That is a really good suggestion! The weigh-in for big internationals would add to RU's TV income too.
Indeed, lots of people would tune in. Would also put an interesting premium on fast, strong lightweights.
As an example of how rugby has got bigger, faster and nastier (and therefore more exciting and yet more dangerous) I love this video showing the All Blacks' haka evolving from a quaint bit of fun, to a genuinely terrifying war dance by enormous men (esp if you are the opposing team)
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Lol, the hits in American Football are probably even more violent than rugby. The armour, helmets and complete lack of any need of an iota of stamina lead to some crazy impacts. Owen Farrell's final 'tackle' *cough* I'd standard fare in an NFL match.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that nid idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
I was talking about this with a friend of mine at lunch. He was the scrum half in his school's first 15 and at 5'9 was thought quite big for the role. His son now plays rugby for the same school and the scrum half is 6'3. Basically he is another flanker and plays as such.
Rugby always favoured the larger players but there used to be roles for a much wider range of body types. Once it was worked out that being 16 stone was no reason not to run seriously fast the game lost a lot of its charm and the danger level increased exponentially.
As an example of how rugby has got bigger, faster and nastier (and therefore more exciting and yet more dangerous) I love this video showing the All Blacks' haka evolving from a quaint bit of fun, to a genuinely terrifying war dance by enormous men (esp if you are the opposing team)
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Lol, the hits in American Football are probably even more violent than rugby. The armour, helmets and complete lack of any need of an iota of stamina lead to some crazy impacts. Owen Farrell's final 'tackle' *cough* I'd standard fare in an NFL match.
Although they don’t play many games a year - I know sod all about NFL but my brother is into it and I recall him saying they only play 16 games a year?
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that nid idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
I was talking about this with a friend of mine at lunch. He was the scrum half in his school's first 15 and at 5'9 was thought quite big for the role. His son now plays rugby for the same school and the scrum half is 6'3. Basically he is another flanker and plays as such.
Rugby always favoured the larger players but there used to be roles for a much wider range of body types. Once it was worked out that being 16 stone was no reason not to run seriously fast the game lost a lot of its charm and the danger level increased exponentially.
As an example of how rugby has got bigger, faster and nastier (and therefore more exciting and yet more dangerous) I love this video showing the All Blacks' haka evolving from a quaint bit of fun, to a genuinely terrifying war dance by enormous men (esp if you are the opposing team)
Following complaints made to the IRB about the All Blacks being allowed to motivate themselves by performing the 'Haka' before their games, other nations were asked to suggest pre-match rituals of their own. The IRB Committee has now agreed to the following pre-match displays:
1. The England team will chat about the weather, wave hankies in the air and attach bells to their ankles before moaning about how they invented the game and gave it to the world, and how it's not fair that everyone still thinks New Zealand are the best team in the world.
2. The Scotland team will chant "You lookin' at me Jimmy?" before smashing an Irn Bru bottle over their opponents' heads.
3. The Ireland team will split into two, with the Southern half performing a Riverdance, while the Northerners march the Traditional route from their dressing room to the pitch, via their opponents dressing room.
4. Argentina will unexpectedly invade a small part of opposition territory, claim it as their own "Las In-Goals-Areas" and then be forcibly removed by the match stewards.
5. Two members of the South African team will claim to be more important than the other 13 whom they will imprison between the posts whilst they claim the rest of the pitch for themselves.
6. The Americans will not attend until almost full time. In future years they will amend the records to show that they were in fact the most important team in the tournament and Hollywood will make a film called 'Saving No.8 Lyle'.
7. Five of the Canadian team will sing La Marseillaise and hold the rest of the team to ransom.
8. The Italian team will arrive in Armani gear, sexually harass the female stewards and then run away.
9. The Spanish will sneak into the other half of the pitch, mow it and then claim that it was all in line with European "grass quotas". They will then curl up under the posts and have a kip until half time, when their appeal for compensation against the UK Government will be heard.
10. The Japanese will attempt to strengthen their team by offering good salaries to the key opposition players and then run around the pitch at high speed in a highly efficient manner before buying the ground (with a subsidy from the UK Government).
11. The French will declare they have new scientific evidence that the opposition are in fact all mad. They will then park lorries across the halfway line, let sheep loose in the opposition half (much to the delight of the WELSH) and burn the officials.
12. The Australians will have a barbie before negotiating lucrative singing and TV contracts in the UK. They will then invite all their mates to come and live with them in Shepherds Bush."
13. Unfortunately the Committee were unable to accept the Welsh suggestion following representations from the RSPCA.
@SeanT - I'd guess Dom Raab is 5' 10", perhaps slightly taller (and certainly more so than Sajid).
I promise not to abuse my position of influence. Peerage for me, probably for Mike S (but the LibDemmery is problematic), GCMG for TSE hailed-on, but others will have to pay the going rate.
Fair enough. He must have been standing next to some supertall politician, in a photo, for me to assume he's a bit of a half-pint.
In my experience politicians in the flesh are often surprisingly small OR surprisingly tall, just like Hollywood actors.
A few years ago I was in the breakfast queue at the Radisson in Leeds between Stuart Broad and Steven Finn. I honestly felt like a midget. It was quite disturbing. TV gives you no idea how tall these people are.
My biggest shock was finding myself in a bar with the entire England rugby team in the triumphant Woodward/Dallaglio era. There were players you expected to be tall and beefy, like Martin Johnson, but even Guscott was over six foot and massive.
In the bar that night after England won I was sitting next to Alex Hales. He was the guy who somehow contrived to keep himself out of the dock in the Stokes trial. He is ridiculously large and, like the rest of them, doesn't carry an ounce of fat. I don't think I have ever been so drunk in my life that challenging someone that size looked like a good idea. Just saying.
It's actually becoming a problem for rugby. The players are just getting bigger and stronger and beefier and the hits they take are, therefore, ever nastier. Hence the shortened careers and the lengthened injury lists (cf England v SA last Saturday)
Rugby Union either has to rein back the impacts (and lose much of its visceral appeal), or adopt body armour and helmets like American Football. I don't see any alternative.
Lol, the hits in American Football are probably even more violent than rugby. The armour, helmets and complete lack of any need of an iota of stamina lead to some crazy impacts. Owen Farrell's final 'tackle' *cough* I'd standard fare in an NFL match.
Although they don’t play many games a year - I know sod all about NFL but my brother is into it and I recall him saying they only play 16 games a year?
They also only play offense or defence and even then not every down. I don’t know the stats off the top of my head but I would be surprised if many players are actually in action for more than 15 mins a game.
Comments
I know I am not on here all that often, but I missed that event
It will probably take me days (or weeks) to notice when I get banned.
But there was a point it couldn't be overlooked any more because he'd almost given up on the interesting stuff and that was just about all he was posting.
1) Be abusive/insulting towards Mike or Robert. They both spend a lot of time and money so you can comment instantly, and understandably get annoyed when people do that.
2) Don't post libellous/defamatory comments or anything that might cost Mike a lot of money.
3) Don't violate another publication's paywall. Some of the nastiest legal letters OGH has received is to do with this
4) Don't post fake betting/polling figures or repeatedly post fake news.
5) Don't obsesses about one thing/person.
If you ever get banned, a simple email apologising to Mike usually sorts it out.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/06/us/elections/results-house-forecast.html
https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2018-election-results-coverage/?ex_cid=extra_banner
https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-day-2018/index.html
After all "Not only must Justice be done; it must also be seen to be done."
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/10/25/surely-the-times-come-for-the-media-to-treat-moggsys-erg-boys-as-all-piss-and-wind/
(just scroll down a few posts)
I was rather amused to note you had actually commented on the post that got him banned - without realising it!
EDIT: I see the post downthread. A warning to many of us methinks.
Perhaps.
Bumping into rugby players around Edinburgh and Glasgow is a sun blocking out event.
Wasn't it The Times somebody posted whole articles from in the early paywall days and Murdoch's lawyers got nasty?
"I AM THE LAW!!!!"
Sylvester Stallone stylee...
I have banned exactly one person ever, Scott_P, for failure to appreciate music.
Was sat at a table net to Broad at the Ivy on the KR a couple of years ago. He was tall, but in my head all cricketers are giants, because of that early encounter with Hick/Moody. It was quite a disappointment.
I met a meme who wasn’t there
She wasn’t there again today
I wish, I wish, she’d go away
It's Mike's site so he's free to choose who comments BTL. But I think it's a shame that the people who get banned all seem to come from one side of the political spectrum.
The reason I got hooked to this site was the diversity of opinion. You might not agree with the analysis presented by @archer101au, but I think his contributions were interesting to read.
Well, aye.
What gets people upset is copy and pasting whole articles from behind a paywall.
Rugby always favoured the larger players but there used to be roles for a much wider range of body types. Once it was worked out that being 16 stone was no reason not to run seriously fast the game lost a lot of its charm and the danger level increased exponentially.
Ah shame - should've guessed it was too good to be true!
When I was youth cricketer, I got invited to a charity game (spectate not play). Me and my mate came out the pavilion and sat down to this little old West Indian lady doing her knitting. We started chatting about this and that and she informed us that her little boy was playing in the game today...we said oh well I hope he does ok, we know there is a whole load of current and former internationals playing...she said oh I am sure he will be ok, he plays quite a few of these charity games...
Then we noticed that it had gone very dark all of a sudden...no rain clouds hadn’t formed, there was a very large gentleman standing in front of us...oh here is my little boy said the woman, Joel, these two nice boys were asking if you will be ok playing in today’s game...Joel laughed deeply and asked if we wanted our mini autograph bats signed by the teams as he was just heading into the dressing room.
Mr garner appeared 15 mins with our bats signed by a who’s who of international cricketers.
Following complaints made to the IRB about the All Blacks being allowed to motivate themselves by performing the 'Haka' before their games, other nations were asked to suggest pre-match rituals of their own. The IRB Committee has now agreed to the following pre-match displays:
1. The England team will chat about the weather, wave hankies in the air and attach bells to their ankles before moaning about how they invented the game and gave it to the world, and how it's not fair that everyone still thinks New Zealand are the best team in the world.
2. The Scotland team will chant "You lookin' at me Jimmy?" before smashing an Irn Bru bottle over their opponents' heads.
3. The Ireland team will split into two, with the Southern half performing a Riverdance, while the Northerners march the Traditional route from their dressing room to the pitch, via their opponents dressing room.
4. Argentina will unexpectedly invade a small part of opposition territory, claim it as their own "Las In-Goals-Areas" and then be forcibly removed by the match stewards.
5. Two members of the South African team will claim to be more important than the other 13 whom they will imprison between the posts whilst they claim the rest of the pitch for themselves.
6. The Americans will not attend until almost full time. In future years they will amend the records to show that they were in fact the most important team in the tournament and Hollywood will make a film called 'Saving No.8 Lyle'.
7. Five of the Canadian team will sing La Marseillaise and hold the rest of the team to ransom.
8. The Italian team will arrive in Armani gear, sexually harass the female stewards and then run away.
9. The Spanish will sneak into the other half of the pitch, mow it and then claim that it was all in line with European "grass quotas". They will then curl up under the posts and have a kip until half time, when their appeal for compensation against the UK Government will be heard.
10. The Japanese will attempt to strengthen their team by offering good salaries to the key opposition players and then run around the pitch at high speed in a highly efficient manner before buying the ground (with a subsidy from the UK Government).
11. The French will declare they have new scientific evidence that the opposition are in fact all mad. They will then park lorries across the halfway line, let sheep loose in the opposition half (much to the delight of the WELSH) and burn the officials.
12. The Australians will have a barbie before negotiating lucrative singing and TV contracts in the UK. They will then invite all their mates to come and live with them in Shepherds Bush."
13. Unfortunately the Committee were unable to accept the Welsh suggestion following representations from the RSPCA.
1) It's amazing it ever kept going in the first place
2) Hakas are great to kick off sporting contests, and more sports should do something similar
3) Is there some 'cultural appropriation' movement seeking to get them to stop doing it?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2018-election-results-coverage/?ex_cid=extra_banner
Plugging that into a spreadie gives 46.1% overall turnout (versus eligible voters)