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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Might he have kept his job if he had managed to be funny?

    Mitchell and Webb show how this should be done.
    https://youtu.be/5Mr-2jb6oNA
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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    A reminder of the key indicator as to how many f*cks a public figure gives when apologising.

    "any offence caused" = zero

    "the offence I've undoubtedly caused" = possibly one or more (or was at least careful enough to hire a decent PR).
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Pulpstar said:

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Tough to lose your job before christmas, hopefully he can find alternative employment soon.
    I'd suggest he try something a little less public-facing
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Pulpstar said:

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Tough to lose your job before christmas, hopefully he can find alternative employment soon.
    Meat packing factory perhaps?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    One word - parking. Outside maybe ten major cities where public transport is both very good and preferable, that is a big, big problem in city centres and converting them to offices or houses would only make it worse.
    In Epping they are looking at underground car parks and the more flats and housing created in towns and cities means the less needed in the greenbelt and countryside
    Or the first floor as a car park, as in Cannock town centre? It could work, the question is, will it be allowed to?
    If the council is behind it as it is here then yes
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Tough to lose your job before christmas, hopefully he can find alternative employment soon.
    Sitwell's another old Etonian, isn't he? Perhaps he can do a better job on Brexit than his contemporaries Dave and Boris.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Pulpstar said:

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Tough to lose your job before christmas, hopefully he can find alternative employment soon.
    He will probably be editing Vegan News soon. It seems to be the way for these high-profile firings as they just swan from one position to the next...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Good job Phil saved some cash in the good times.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "There is a substantial danger that with the loss of a social heart, many towns will become dormitories for the poor."

    But it is completely wrong to think that just because people living in a town don't have access to Debenhams or Marks and Spencer, then the town has no "social heart" or that the people are "poor".

    It is just such a crass and materialistic view of what a "social heart" means, or even what "poverty" means.

    Powell & Pressburger's beautiful hymn to the Isle of Mull has the unanswerable exchange to the money-sodden materialist

    Joan: "I guess people round here are very poor"

    MacNeil: "They’re not poor, they just don’t have any money.”
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    I can’t deny I share some of his frustrations about vegans.

    Terminating his employment is an overreaction. I really detest the lunch mob.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    HYUFD said:
    He'll huff and he'll puff, and he'll fail to find 48 letters to Brady.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Conspiracy klaxon! Mention of Tapestry earlier reminds me that some tin foil wearers have made the link between Bob Mueller of Trumpton and Whitey Bulger, murdered just one day after being moved across country for no apparent reason.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,663
    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    It does nothing for the 10% of business ratepayers who account for 70% of business rates - so the anchor tenants will continue becoming unanchored.

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,265
    Pulpstar said:

    Good job Phil saved some cash in the good times.
    Those roof don't fix themselves you know...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
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    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816
    edited October 2018
    On the topic: a lot on here suggezting the town's that were suffering were already, in the parlance, holes.

    Not entirely untrue, but closer to the mark is that it is mid-market towns as well as shops that are suffering. Smaller and posher towns can differentiate as a niche offering - small places like Tenterden and St. Andrews have much improved retail offerings this century, whilst the Yorks of this world can hold their own .Will be interesting to see whether Halifax can develop along the niche line.

    Meanwhile the biggest cities get the gravity they always had, but it is the middle - Huddersfield and even as big as Sheffield suffer retail wise. Stockport had a good size, but mainstream, centre and if it is suffering it is not for lack of a local middle class. I don't know what the equivalent southern towns are like - the retail traditions of southern towns developed later than the north because of London: anecdotally, old Rata describes the Bedford of the 1960s as a wasteland relative to much smaller northern centres, but I'd vouch it is probably OK these days.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    It does nothing for the 10% of business ratepayers who account for 70% of business rates - so the anchor tenants will continue becoming unanchored.

    It will help more community high street shops though, the rest can become offices or affordable accommodation if vacated
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333
    There are two suggestions for development to ease the housing crisis which in reality is an affordability/pricing crisis. Plenty of units going up.

    One is permitted development - https://standard.co.uk/comment/comment/permitted-development-is-key-to-race-to-build-homes-a3956311.html

    Which sounds a good idea but is a dreadful one as it would allow the development to ignore a host of important regulations and protections.

    The second is community land trusts - communitylandtrusts.org.uk/what-is-a-clt (CLTs) - which are much better ideas although at this point are small in scale.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
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    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,899
    edited October 2018

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
    Sorry, and I meant of course the Royal Town of Sutton Coldfield (rolling eyes emoji).
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    Fenster said:

    Fenster said:

    Very depressing.

    My own town centre has been substantially hollowed out over the last two to three years, and is now dominated by coffee shops, tattoo parlours, barber shops, betting shops and charity shops (which, remarkably, seem to be what people want).

    It's a strange situation because my village in the Welsh valleys seems to be undergoing a revival. We've had two boutique shops open in the past few years, a local grocery has opened (bucking the threat of the large Tescos half a mile away) and we even have a Kurdish barbers.

    It goes to show that it's very much a local thing. Maybe we are just lucky.
    Are you on a tourist trail, or near a national park hotspot?
    No, I'm in a pit village (Ystrad Mynach). We are in a nice spot because we are at the bottom of the valley and only 14 miles by train directly to the centre of Cardiff. I think it's beautiful here; friendly, pretty, communal, sporty, great junior schools, low unemployment and very safe. But whenever I see stats the Caerphilly borough is deemed one of the UK's shitholes. I travel all around the UK and I wouldn't swap the valleys for anywhere. It's not wealthy or sophisticated here but I like it.
    Good for you.

    I feel exactly the same about my hometown.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    You wouldn’t get out alive if you said that in Sutton Coldfield.
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    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    Might he have kept his job if he had managed to be funny?

    Mitchell and Webb show how this should be done.
    h ttps://youtu.be/5Mr-2jb6oNA
    I had a colleague who called himself a meatarian. He'd go to the pub, order food, and ask for any salad or greens to be left off the plate (potatoes were acceptable). If any were on his plate when it came, he'd send it back.

    Oddly enough, he had some health and weight problems. I'm sure it was coincidental.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,302

    The editor of Waitrose Food magazine, William Sitwell, is standing down with immediate effect after suggesting a series on "killing vegans, one by one".

    He was responding to an email pitch from freelance journalist Selene Nelson who had suggested features on plant-based recipes.

    Sitwell, also a critic on Masterchef, apologised for any offence caused.

    Waitrose said: "William's email absolutely doesn't represent our views about vegans and vegan food."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46042314

    I can’t deny I share some of his frustrations about vegans.

    Terminating his employment is an overreaction. I really detest the lunch mob.
    I think it's fair to say though that he stuffed himself. He must have been nuts to say such a thing. People were going to protest lentil he cows complained about not being milked.
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    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
    Does she leave off the postcode when she gives her address ?
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    blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
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    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    blueblue said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
    I’m not so sure about that actually.

    I certainly feel better than I did a year ago. The longer those two are in charge the more likely they are to be found out.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
    Does she leave off the postcode when she gives her address ?
    Of course.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    blueblue said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
    I’m not so sure about that actually.

    I certainly feel better than I did a year ago. The longer those two are in charge the more likely they are to be found out.
    howso? By McDonnell saying he would leave in place tax cuts for the aspiring wealthy? By him saying he would vote for a Brexit which protects jobs and the economy?

    All very sensible sounding IMO. No one's going to be found out if that continues.
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    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
    He was particularly enthusiastic about this place:

    http://www.birminghammuseums.org.uk/jewellery/about
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    blueblue said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
    Left wing Labour would be following the economic irrationality and geopolitical isolationism of Brexit to its logical conclusion.
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Some of our housebuilder clients are getting very worried. Sales have dropped substantially lately.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,265
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1057629585443966977

    Restructuring?

    What does that mean?

    The DWP could not cope with another restructure as they will be still knee-deep in UC mess.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Apple introduces their new watch OS, which displays just an Apple logo.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46045414

    TSE declares he is ecstatic at the upgrade. ;)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,403
    TOPPING said:

    blueblue said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
    I’m not so sure about that actually.

    I certainly feel better than I did a year ago. The longer those two are in charge the more likely they are to be found out.
    howso? By McDonnell saying he would leave in place tax cuts for the aspiring wealthy? By him saying he would vote for a Brexit which protects jobs and the economy?

    All very sensible sounding IMO. No one's going to be found out if that continues.
    Their names and brand are starting to be shop soiled amongst the public at large, and that is cutting through and starting to show up in the polls.

    It may be GE2017 represented near perfect conditions for them. But I’m not complacent.
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    Some of our housebuilder clients are getting very worried. Sales have dropped substantially lately.
    A lot of that is just waiting to see what happens on the Brexit negotiations. There's likely to be a quite chunky rebound if we do agree a deal with the EU.

    On the other hand, if we don't...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    One word - parking. Outside maybe ten major cities where public transport is both very good and preferable, that is a big, big problem in city centres and converting them to offices or houses would only make it worse.
    Driverless cars, and a large automatic car park on the edge of town, from where you can summon your car to drive itself back and pick you up from the high street, once your shopping is done.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    One word - parking. Outside maybe ten major cities where public transport is both very good and preferable, that is a big, big problem in city centres and converting them to offices or houses would only make it worse.
    Driverless cars, and a large automatic car park on the edge of town, from where you can summon your car to drive itself back and pick you up from the high street, once your shopping is done.
    That rather assumes driverless cars are going to be reliable enough, and acceptable enough, for such use.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited October 2018

    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
    He was particularly enthusiastic about this place:

    http://www.birminghammuseums.org.uk/jewellery/about
    Birmingham, particularly the Jewellery Quarter (JQ), is great.

    As the name suggests, I moved here from Paris, to much mockery from my peers. Its not a brilliant city, sure, but its far better than its reputation.

    Plus points

    *good cheap food - almost every decent pub now does a decent menu, whether its classic pub food (see Red Lion and Lord Clifden, JQ), soul food, pizza, or they're one of the many Desi Pubs (Hen and Chickens, just outside the city centre). Good selection of independents - and a local scheme to support and advertise the range available.

    *decent mainstream shopping areas in the Bullring and around there

    *some nice buildings and a good civic museum

    *half decent countryside within train/driving distance.

    *JQ is a lovely place, a mix of well-designed new builds fitting into 3 story workshops. Still has the jewellery industry, lots of restaurants and bars.

    Minus points

    *Half the city centre is a dive

    *Rubbish transport - its all spokes, no rims.

    *it feels like its music scene is limited, but I know its got big venues. The black country does go for covers acts, and 70s bands still trooping on. I'm going to see The Sweet in December, ffs.

    *(I think its missing a centrally based half-decent non-league football team, but that's about it).

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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300

    blueblue said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    But isn't it becoming increasingly clear that the price of Brexit, especially a hard Brexit, is going to be a period of Corbyn-McDonnell government? And the one thing they've shown is that once they get their hands on the levers of institutional power, they are masters at manipulating them to set their own position in stone.

    The next election - and the decades that follow it - could easily, easily, become 1979 in reverse.
    I’m not so sure about that actually.

    I certainly feel better than I did a year ago. The longer those two are in charge the more likely they are to be found out.
    My guess is continued limping along of coalition/minority/tiny majority administrations until one of the main parties gets its finger out and makes a shift to the electable middle. After a reasonably sensible Brexit deal, that may well be the Tories as long as Bone & Co fade back. I agree bets are off if we get a "hard one", especially if the economy tanks or a nutter takes over (though I'm not sure the default response is a large Labour majority).

    Like those moderate Labour MPs who nominated Corbyn to "broaden the debate", I'm glad we've had it and allowed something to the left of Blair to be included in mainstream discussion again. But Labour need to stop believing Skwawkbox and Evolve that the red revolution is coming. Worst of all for Corbyn is I suspect most people see him as irrelevant rather than particularly threatening, while 10 or 20 per cent of the population get into a tizz about how great he is.
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    Apple introduces their new watch OS, which displays just an Apple logo.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46045414

    TSE declares he is ecstatic at the upgrade. ;)

    A minor flaw.

    Probably a false flag attack on Apple.
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    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
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    British bank Barclays will ask the UK’s high court in the coming months to allow it transfer business worth about €250 billion to the Republic as the lender steps up its Brexit preparations.

    Barclays has already confirmed that it intends to move its non-UK European business to the Republic from Britain ahead of the country’s planned departure from the EU in March 2019.

    The bank has applied to the UK high court for an order allowing it to transfer its European Economic Area (EEA) business to the Republic and expects this to be heard on January 22nd.

    The hearing will cover corporate banking, investment banking, private clients and customers’ overseas business based in the EEA. Anyone who believes the plan will damage their interests can make their case at the January hearing.

    According to reports last week, the move will involve the transfer of €250 billion in group assets to the Republic. The EEA comprises the EU, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/barclays-seeking-to-move-250bn-business-to-republic-ahead-of-brexit-1.3680943
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    Apple introduces their new watch OS, which displays just an Apple logo.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46045414

    TSE declares he is ecstatic at the upgrade. ;)

    A minor flaw.

    Probably a false flag attack on Apple.
    To be fair, upgrades of embedded devices can be a nightmare. One company I worked for ended up bricking thousands of devices (*) around the country. Very costly to fix, but it was done at their cost. It'd be good to think Apple would do the same.

    (*) No, I was not involved ...
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Fenster said:

    Fenster said:

    Very depressing.

    My own town centre has been substantially hollowed out over the last two to three years, and is now dominated by coffee shops, tattoo parlours, barber shops, betting shops and charity shops (which, remarkably, seem to be what people want).

    It's a strange situation because my village in the Welsh valleys seems to be undergoing a revival. We've had two boutique shops open in the past few years, a local grocery has opened (bucking the threat of the large Tescos half a mile away) and we even have a Kurdish barbers.

    It goes to show that it's very much a local thing. Maybe we are just lucky.
    Are you on a tourist trail, or near a national park hotspot?
    No, I'm in a pit village (Ystrad Mynach). We are in a nice spot because we are at the bottom of the valley and only 14 miles by train directly to the centre of Cardiff. I think it's beautiful here; friendly, pretty, communal, sporty, great junior schools, low unemployment and very safe. But whenever I see stats the Caerphilly borough is deemed one of the UK's shitholes. I travel all around the UK and I wouldn't swap the valleys for anywhere. It's not wealthy or sophisticated here but I like it.
    Agreed, there are some very, very nice parts of the valleys. I really don't understand why more people live there and commute into Cardiff for work than actually stay in Cardiff. Not that Cardiff isn't nice, but the valleys are so much more affordable.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    IanB2 said:

    I reckon that is the last word on his political ambitions.
    Donald Trump seemed to survive his effigy being used by Edenbridge....
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,265
    Labour all over the place post-budget.

    Maybe an early GE is not quite in their interests as they all seem to think...
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,973
    Labour as evil as the Tories? We’ve got to up our game!
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Labour all over the place post-budget.

    Maybe an early GE is not quite in their interests as they all seem to think...

    Yeah what a shame but it is hard to see how it would make any difference.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,265

    IanB2 said:

    I reckon that is the last word on his political ambitions.
    Donald Trump seemed to survive his effigy being used by Edenbridge....
    https://twitter.com/gabyhinsliff/status/1056588669358927874
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
    What is odd is that in Opposition under Cameron, all the spin was how extensively the Tories were preparing for government, yet Lansley, Gove and IDS all unleashed ill-conceived revolutions that seemed to take colleagues by surprise. Did the Shadow Cabinet not talk to each other?
  • Options
    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
    Does she leave off the postcode when she gives her address ?
    Solihull is in the B postcode area but is clearly not Birminghum.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,663

    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
    He was particularly enthusiastic about this place:

    http://www.birminghammuseums.org.uk/jewellery/about
    Birmingham, particularly the Jewellery Quarter (JQ), is great.

    As the name suggests, I moved here from Paris, to much mockery from my peers. Its not a brilliant city, sure, but its far better than its reputation.

    Plus points

    *good cheap food - almost every decent pub now does a decent menu, whether its classic pub food (see Red Lion and Lord Clifden, JQ), soul food, pizza, or they're one of the many Desi Pubs (Hen and Chickens, just outside the city centre). Good selection of independents - and a local scheme to support and advertise the range available.

    *decent mainstream shopping areas in the Bullring and around there

    *some nice buildings and a good civic museum

    *half decent countryside within train/driving distance.

    *JQ is a lovely place, a mix of well-designed new builds fitting into 3 story workshops. Still has the jewellery industry, lots of restaurants and bars.

    Minus points

    *Half the city centre is a dive

    *Rubbish transport - its all spokes, no rims.

    *it feels like its music scene is limited, but I know its got big venues. The black country does go for covers acts, and 70s bands still trooping on. I'm going to see The Sweet in December, ffs.

    *(I think its missing a centrally based half-decent non-league football team, but that's about it).

    If you enjoy classical music, the acoustic in Symphony Hall is excellent.
    Test match ground.
    Not a bad university, too...
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2018

    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
    What is odd is that in Opposition under Cameron, all the spin was how extensively the Tories were preparing for government, yet Lansley, Gove and IDS all unleashed ill-conceived revolutions that seemed to take colleagues by surprise. Did the Shadow Cabinet not talk to each other?
    They were extremely well-prepared, the three you mention particularly so (and of course Osborne for taking over the Treasury). Unfortunately the NHS reforms, having originally been supported with some enthusiasm by the LibDems, were screwed up when the latter got cold feet (or wanted revenge for losing the AV referendum) later. Still, the other two are going strong, and are very good achievements, of which both coalition parties should be proud. Universal Credit in particular is a massive achievement: no other government in recent years has done so well in correcting the utter mess that the benefits system had got into, and it's a jolly difficult beast to reform.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,663

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    One word - parking. Outside maybe ten major cities where public transport is both very good and preferable, that is a big, big problem in city centres and converting them to offices or houses would only make it worse.
    Driverless cars, and a large automatic car park on the edge of town, from where you can summon your car to drive itself back and pick you up from the high street, once your shopping is done.
    That rather assumes driverless cars are going to be reliable enough, and acceptable enough, for such use.
    They are.
    A forward thinking government would legislate to allow an urban authority, with local consent, to do a deal with someone like Waymo* to plan for and implement a fully driverless town...

    (* I see the California state government has just approved their conducting fully driverless testing in state, without a supervisory driver.)
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,637
    Pro_Rata said:

    On the topic: a lot on here suggezting the town's that were suffering were already, in the parlance, holes.

    Not entirely untrue, but closer to the mark is that it is mid-market towns as well as shops that are suffering. Smaller and posher towns can differentiate as a niche offering - small places like Tenterden and St. Andrews have much improved retail offerings this century, whilst the Yorks of this world can hold their own .Will be interesting to see whether Halifax can develop along the niche line.

    Meanwhile the biggest cities get the gravity they always had, but it is the middle - Huddersfield and even as big as Sheffield suffer retail wise. Stockport had a good size, but mainstream, centre and if it is suffering it is not for lack of a local middle class. I don't know what the equivalent southern towns are like - the retail traditions of southern towns developed later than the north because of London: anecdotally, old Rata describes the Bedford of the 1960s as a wasteland relative to much smaller northern centres, but I'd vouch it is probably OK these days.

    Huddersfield has certainly suffered - people going to Leeds and Manchester (plus the out of town retail parks) instead of into their local town centre. Wor lass can't get over how different it is now to when she was in her 20s.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    On US turnout, there never seems to be any official, absolute figures. It's always news media/3rd parties talking about comparitive increases in the racial mix and so forth. In addition many states (California I'm looking at you) are unbelievably slow at counting votes.

    Most frustrating compared to here where we do at least always get "official" numbers on the night.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,637
    Nigelb said:

    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
    He was particularly enthusiastic about this place:

    http://www.birminghammuseums.org.uk/jewellery/about
    Birmingham, particularly the Jewellery Quarter (JQ), is great.

    As the name suggests, I moved here from Paris, to much mockery from my peers. Its not a brilliant city, sure, but its far better than its reputation.

    Plus points

    *good cheap food - almost every decent pub now does a decent menu, whether its classic pub food (see Red Lion and Lord Clifden, JQ), soul food, pizza, or they're one of the many Desi Pubs (Hen and Chickens, just outside the city centre). Good selection of independents - and a local scheme to support and advertise the range available.

    *decent mainstream shopping areas in the Bullring and around there

    *some nice buildings and a good civic museum

    *half decent countryside within train/driving distance.

    *JQ is a lovely place, a mix of well-designed new builds fitting into 3 story workshops. Still has the jewellery industry, lots of restaurants and bars.

    Minus points

    *Half the city centre is a dive

    *Rubbish transport - its all spokes, no rims.

    *it feels like its music scene is limited, but I know its got big venues. The black country does go for covers acts, and 70s bands still trooping on. I'm going to see The Sweet in December, ffs.

    *(I think its missing a centrally based half-decent non-league football team, but that's about it).

    If you enjoy classical music, the acoustic in Symphony Hall is excellent.
    Test match ground.
    Not a bad university, too...
    An excellent University. Plus some also-rans.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298

    IanB2 said:

    I reckon that is the last word on his political ambitions.
    Donald Trump seemed to survive his effigy being used by Edenbridge....
    He wasn't being burned by his own electorate.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,663

    I was talking to a neighbour over the weekend, who told me that he'd just had a great short-break holiday in Birmingham. Yes, I was surprised too.

    This neighbour, did he grow up in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Glagow?

    Because that might explain why he liked Birmingham.
    Well, there was the first week in August...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,973
    How many of those were able to vote at elections previously?
  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548

    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
    What is odd is that in Opposition under Cameron, all the spin was how extensively the Tories were preparing for government, yet Lansley, Gove and IDS all unleashed ill-conceived revolutions that seemed to take colleagues by surprise. Did the Shadow Cabinet not talk to each other?
    They were extremely well-prepared, the three you mention particularly so (and of course Osborne for taking over the Treasury). Unfortunately the NHS reforms, having originally been supported with some enthusiasm by the LibDems, were screwed up when the latter got cold feet (or wanted revenge for losing the AV referendum) later. Still, the other two are going strong, and are very good achievements, of which both coalition parties should be proud. Universal Credit in particular is a massive achievement: no other government in recent years has done so well in correcting the utter mess that the benefits system had got into, and it's a jolly difficult beast to reform.
    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    RobD said:

    Labour as evil as the Tories? We’ve got to up our game!
    Still vegans to our baby-eaters.....
  • Options
    RobD said:

    How many of those were able to vote at elections previously?
    Every time we have this. Once in a blue moon does an unexpected tide roll in
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
    What is odd is that in Opposition under Cameron, all the spin was how extensively the Tories were preparing for government, yet Lansley, Gove and IDS all unleashed ill-conceived revolutions that seemed to take colleagues by surprise. Did the Shadow Cabinet not talk to each other?
    They were extremely well-prepared, the three you mention particularly so (and of course Osborne for taking over the Treasury). Unfortunately the NHS reforms, having originally been supported with some enthusiasm by the LibDems, were screwed up when the latter got cold feet (or wanted revenge for losing the AV referendum) later. Still, the other two are going strong, and are very good achievements, of which both coalition parties should be proud. Universal Credit in particular is a massive achievement: no other government in recent years has done so well in correcting the utter mess that the benefits system had got into, and it's a jolly difficult beast to reform.
    Lansley’s NHS reforms might have some good points, I suppose, but overall evolution, not revolution, was needed. And I get the the impression that underfunded county councils are having problems with Health promotion and related activities.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2018
    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Hammond's move to cut business rates for high street shops and raise taxes on online retailers revenues should help the high street a bit.

    If gaps do emerge still then converting former retail premises to offices or affordable accommodation seems srnsible

    One word - parking. Outside maybe ten major cities where public transport is both very good and preferable, that is a big, big problem in city centres and converting them to offices or houses would only make it worse.
    Driverless cars, and a large automatic car park on the edge of town, from where you can summon your car to drive itself back and pick you up from the high street, once your shopping is done.
    That rather assumes driverless cars are going to be reliable enough, and acceptable enough, for such use.
    They are.
    A forward thinking government would legislate to allow an urban authority, with local consent, to do a deal with someone like Waymo* to plan for and implement a fully driverless town...

    (* I see the California state government has just approved their conducting fully driverless testing in state, without a supervisory driver.)
    No, they are really not ready for this. They cannot even distinguish between stationary and moving items at speeds greater than 50MPH, and cyclist detection is sh*t. As ever, a big issue is interfacing. In this case, with other road users - and not just car drivers.

    Too many people are drinking the Waymo and Tesla kool-aid. They're dong great stuff, but don't buy their hype.

    I hope I'm wrong about the above, but don't believe I am.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Texas starts from a miserably low base for election turnout. I made it the second lowest state for turnout at POTUS16, with Hawaii being the lowest.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dEwTzRca1tHFuClBeqW9yEJdPuButr0Ra6_F0CNMg_s/edit#gid=0
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Bear in mind the population of Texas is over 28 million.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344

    TOPPING said:

    It's not that Peter Bone is an utter, utter twat and in the same party as I support that is the problem.

    It is that he and his fellow idiots are close to being if not are already in a position of influence.

    He is a million miles away from my views and I am confident the ultras like him will not win the day
    I don’t agree with him on some issues, but he’s certainty not a million miles away from my views. He’s still a Conservative.

    Corbyn and McDonnell, however, are and I’d wade through blood to stop them.
    All of us have a problem with admitting that we don't think it would really be good if our parties won every election forever. But it wouldn't - sooner or later, all parties need to recharge their batteries in Opposition, and a new team needs a shot at trying out some different approaches. Conservatives need to accept that at some point there will be a left-wing government, just as we need to accept that that won't last indefinitely either.

    IMO the Conservatives are currently in the same state as Labour were in 2010 - utterly worn down, and totally reliant on voters thinking the other side are dangerous. Winning another election in that state can be a poisoned chalice - arguably the Conservatives would have been better off losing in 1992 than in 1997.
  • Options

    No, they are really not ready for this. They cannot even distinguish between stationary and moving items at speeds greater than 50MPH, and cyclist detection is sh*t. As ever, a big issue is interfacing. In this case, with other road users - and not just car drivers.

    Too many people are drinking the Waymo and Tesla kool-aid. They're dong great stuff, but don't buy their hype.

    I hope I'm wrong about the above, but don't believe I am.

    There's a road that I use to get to work which I really can't see how driverless cars could use as it stands at the moment. It's a route in to a small town, but because residents park along it, there's really only room for cars to pass in one direction over several sections. It all works very well at the moment, with people politely letting a few cars pass, and then someone will stop to let the traffic in the other direction have a go.

    The other thing I don't see is how truly driverless cars will handle things like parking in a field for, say, a wedding or a car boot sale.

    I rather suspect that last 1% of the problem is going to take a lot longer to sort out that the industry expects. Might work better in big cities, though.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.
    Well, we’ve seen how competition by price has worked in other areas of public service. Ruskin’s adage is still true.
  • Options
    Is it young people coming onto the register (Democrats?), people moved into Texas (a mix) or people who just didn't bother before (Trumpers) ?
  • Options
    nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    on topic. Isn't it just the case that old stores, brands, retail models (eg department stores) are no longer viable, and new ones take their place? Old shops close down, new ones open. Certainly, there seems to be a growth in specialist retail outlet that cater for niches that are poorly served online. Isn't this just best understood as change?

    How are towns become Dormitories for the poor? I travel around the place quite a lot. To my mind, the part of the country that is becoming a dormitory for the poor are the outskirts of London. Poor, run down housing, cramped conditions, uncared for public spaces, etc. Other parts that are less economically well off, including coastal towns, are in reality nicer places to live.
  • Options

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.
    Well, we’ve seen how competition by price has worked in other areas of public service. Ruskin’s adage is still true.
    It works extremely well. No-one suggests that the government should fix the price of buying computers or road construction services or MRI scanners. Why should they fix the price of buying hip operations so that there is zero incentive to do them more efficiently?
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    rpjs said:

    Re the cities quiz: Sutton Coldfield is officially part of Birmingham and so shouldn't be listed separately. I think the figure for the population of Birmingham already includes the population of Sutton Coldfield.

    Try telling my aunt that.
    Does she leave off the postcode when she gives her address ?
    Solihull is in the B postcode area but is clearly not Birminghum.
    Solihull is listed separately from Birmingham in the 100 biggest cities Quiz introduced by Alastair.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    Is it young people coming onto the register (Democrats?), people moved into Texas (a mix) or people who just didn't bother before (Trumpers) ?
    Sounds good for Beto.
    Why would Trumpers vote for Cruz when they didn't vote for Trump?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    No, they are really not ready for this. They cannot even distinguish between stationary and moving items at speeds greater than 50MPH, and cyclist detection is sh*t. As ever, a big issue is interfacing. In this case, with other road users - and not just car drivers.

    Too many people are drinking the Waymo and Tesla kool-aid. They're dong great stuff, but don't buy their hype.

    I hope I'm wrong about the above, but don't believe I am.

    There's a road that I use to get to work which I really can't see how driverless cars could use as it stands at the moment. It's a route in to a small town, but because residents park along it, there's really only room for cars to pass in one direction over several sections. It all works very well at the moment, with people politely letting a few cars pass, and then someone will stop to let the traffic in the other direction have a go.

    The other thing I don't see is how truly driverless cars will handle things like parking in a field for, say, a wedding or a car boot sale.

    I rather suspect that last 1% of the problem is going to take a lot longer to sort out that the industry expects. Might work better in big cities, though.
    "The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule

    I have no doubt that Waymo and others hahve got some blooming impressive technology that works the majority of the time - especially in geofenced areas. It's getting it working all the time that will be the killer - for instance the edge and corner cases.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721

    RobD said:

    How many of those were able to vote at elections previously?
    Every time we have this. Once in a blue moon does an unexpected tide roll in
    A blue wave?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    RobD said:

    How many of those were able to vote at elections previously?
    Every time we have this. Once in a blue moon does an unexpected tide roll in
    If there's one thing that's never unexpected, I'd have thought tides were it. Blue moons might cause them, mind.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    RobD said:

    How many of those were able to vote at elections previously?
    Every time we have this. Once in a blue moon does an unexpected tide roll in
    A blue wave?
    It had better bloody be after all the hype.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.
    Well, we’ve seen how competition by price has worked in other areas of public service. Ruskin’s adage is still true.
    It works extremely well. No-one suggests that the government should fix the price of buying computers or road construction services or MRI scanners. Why should they fix the price of buying hip operations so that there is zero incentive to do them more efficiently?
    Because, generally speaking, the people performing hip operations, and other aspects of medical care are motivated to do the best for their patients. Money per operation doesn’t come into it.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Labour all over the place post-budget.

    Maybe an early GE is not quite in their interests as they all seem to think...

    Really?

    What's Labour's Achilles Heal? Not being trusted with the public purse.

    So there is a news story that Labour are disagreeing over public spending. For the majority of people who don't follow the details that is all they will hear. What impression is that likely to make? That Labour is talking about important serious stuff like money.

    Sounds like a perfect bit of news management to me.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.

    That was the headline at the time but was hardly justified. Public sector commissioning rules require a clearly set out evaluation criteria in advance, typically weighting quality and price (and potentiallly smaller factors such as social value or organisational resilience.)
    The idea that this wasn't happening beforehand or that the Lib Dems had anything to do with affecting the evaluation criteria on individual procurements is quite some re-writing of history. Of course that's different from saying that every successful bidder deliverers as promised....

    The clause you refer to relates to the role of Monitor the health watchdog (now subsumed into NHS Improvement) and quite why they should have a different remit to the existing rules seemed unclear to me - certainly not a clear-cut 'advantage.'

    As for the rest - any chance of some examples of the 'whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy'? The reforms were fearsomely complex, but the idea that Lansley had a simple idea until the Lib Dems made it complicated seems wishful thinking rather than reality to me.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008

    No, they are really not ready for this. They cannot even distinguish between stationary and moving items at speeds greater than 50MPH, and cyclist detection is sh*t. As ever, a big issue is interfacing. In this case, with other road users - and not just car drivers.

    Too many people are drinking the Waymo and Tesla kool-aid. They're dong great stuff, but don't buy their hype.

    I hope I'm wrong about the above, but don't believe I am.

    There's a road that I use to get to work which I really can't see how driverless cars could use as it stands at the moment. It's a route in to a small town, but because residents park along it, there's really only room for cars to pass in one direction over several sections. It all works very well at the moment, with people politely letting a few cars pass, and then someone will stop to let the traffic in the other direction have a go.

    The other thing I don't see is how truly driverless cars will handle things like parking in a field for, say, a wedding or a car boot sale.

    I rather suspect that last 1% of the problem is going to take a lot longer to sort out that the industry expects. Might work better in big cities, though.

    You must live in the same small town as I do. We have a road like that!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Channel 4 is going to Leeds, with Bristol and Glasgow as creative hubs.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited October 2018

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.
    Well, we’ve seen how competition by price has worked in other areas of public service. Ruskin’s adage is still true.
    It works extremely well. No-one suggests that the government should fix the price of buying computers or road construction services or MRI scanners. Why should they fix the price of buying hip operations so that there is zero incentive to do them more efficiently?
    Because, generally speaking, the people performing hip operations, and other aspects of medical care are motivated to do the best for their patients. Money per operation doesn’t come into it.
    Of course. That's true of many people in many careers - aircraft designers, for example, want to make the best possible aeroplanes. That doesn't mean it's not a good idea to arrange things to encourage more efficiency.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Labour all over the place post-budget.

    Maybe an early GE is not quite in their interests as they all seem to think...

    Really?

    What's Labour's Achilles Heal? Not being trusted with the public purse.

    So there is a news story that Labour are disagreeing over public spending. For the majority of people who don't follow the details that is all they will hear. What impression is that likely to make? That Labour is talking about important serious stuff like money.

    Sounds like a perfect bit of news management to me.
    It's the Labour members who pay attention. They are the ones going "Huh???" about McDonnell's Budget response....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Channel 4 is going to Leeds, with Bristol and Glasgow as creative hubs.

    Marching on together.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    tpfkar said:

    tpfkar said:


    Can you give any example of how the Lib Dems screwed up the health reforms? That seems quite a partisan re-writing of history from here.

    Most notably by insisting that one of the most vital advantages, competition on price by service providers, was removed (they'd previously supported it). That of course made a nonsense of the whole point of improving efficiency through price discovery and incentivising efficient operation. They also insisted on a whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy, making it much more cumbersome and expensive than Lansley had originally proposed.

    That was the headline at the time but was hardly justified. Public sector commissioning rules require a clearly set out evaluation criteria in advance, typically weighting quality and price (and potentiallly smaller factors such as social value or organisational resilience.)
    The idea that this wasn't happening beforehand or that the Lib Dems had anything to do with affecting the evaluation criteria on individual procurements is quite some re-writing of history. Of course that's different from saying that every successful bidder deliverers as promised....

    The clause you refer to relates to the role of Monitor the health watchdog (now subsumed into NHS Improvement) and quite why they should have a different remit to the existing rules seemed unclear to me - certainly not a clear-cut 'advantage.'

    As for the rest - any chance of some examples of the 'whole raft of extra layers of bureaucracy'? The reforms were fearsomely complex, but the idea that Lansley had a simple idea until the Lib Dems made it complicated seems wishful thinking rather than reality to me.
    Quite.
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    Hell's teeth, there was naff all in B'head in the first place. Worth noting that it is not just the internet,
    - Northampton and others badly affected by "out of town". It is a big and well off town yet cannot justify an M&S
    - The problem is partly scale (lack of it) and customer's ever demanding more choice - which required bigger units. So Currys has closed in our affluent market town, and you can see why as their unit had just not enough space for a proper retail offer.
    - The shops that close are large - but the units that are expanding are service industries like cafe's, hairdressers and tattooists are all small
    - I can't think of one physical retailer that is expanding and that is not just fear of the post-Brexit depression that may or may not occur

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    ydoethur said:

    I always knew Cameron wasn't completely stupid:

    Overnight it emerged David Cameron regards Michael Gove as a lunatic and that might hinder Gove’s chances.

    Although it does beg the question of why he left him at Education for so many years...
    Because he couldn't give a toss about state schools, so let Gove introduce multiple chaotic reforms to structures, funding, qualifications and initial teacher training.

    He only punted him when focus groups showed him that Gove's tenure in this role was hugely unpopular. The DfE are still trying to clear up the mess.
    What is odd is that in Opposition under Cameron, all the spin was how extensively the Tories were preparing for government, yet Lansley, Gove and IDS all unleashed ill-conceived revolutions that seemed to take colleagues by surprise. Did the Shadow Cabinet not talk to each other?
    It doesn't look like it.

    From my POV, Cameron was only interested in certain briefs, and generally just allowed others free rein, until it became clear that things were going wrong.

    We're now mired in a massive recruitment and retention crisis, in the face of rising pupil numbers. Recruitment crisis can be attributed in large part to stupid and over-complex changes to initial teacher training routes (although there are of course other factors involved).
This discussion has been closed.