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SystemSystem Posts: 12,587
edited October 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Who will be the face of the new £50 note?

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  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,466
    First -its got to be a woman but not Thatcher.....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,411
    Second, again!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited October 2018
    Attlee and Seacole look too short. The Telegraph has the case for Noor Inayat Khan here:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/new-50-note-must-become-uks-first-bank-note-feature-ethnic-minority/

    Attlee or Khan, however, would mean that alongside Churchill on the fiver, we'd have two banknotes with second world war connections. Put a line through Bader for the same reason, and probably also Turing.

    Stephen Hawking probably died too recently and has a book out in time for Christmas, and the Bank of England is not in the billboards game, so no.

    Aneurin Bevan founded the NHS but perhaps his "lower than vermin" quote might be a tad strong for some.

    Seacole, Fawcett and Pankhurst have recently gained statues in the Westminster area so their supporters may be assuaged.

    James Clerk Maxwell is worth a second glance, as the scientist has been compared to Einstein for combining electricity and magnetism. He'd get the Scottish vote as well, but they already have Adam Smith on the £20 note for the next few years.

    If we've ruled out Turing but want to celebrate Britain's place as computing pioneers then look down the list to Ada Lovelace at 50/1 -- a woman and arguably the world's first computer programmer for her work with Babbage.

    Oh, and first on-topic.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    Jane Austen and J. M. W Turner are both from the arts so I think a scientist would seem logical. And Turing caught my eye for the reasons explained by TSE.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tlg86 said:

    Jane Austen and J. M. W Turner are both from the arts so I think a scientist would seem logical. And Turing caught my eye for the reasons explained by TSE.

    Rosalind Franklin is 50/1 on the Ladbrokes list: female, scientist. If she'd not died so early, she'd probably have shared the Nobel Prize for her part in establishing the structure of DNA.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Attlee and Seacole look too short. The Telegraph has the case for Noor Inayat Khan here:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/new-50-note-must-become-uks-first-bank-note-feature-ethnic-minority/If we've ruled out Turing but want to celebrate Britain's place as computing pioneers then look down the list to Ada Lovelace at 50/1 -- a woman and arguably the world's first computer programmer for her work with Babbage.

    Oh, and first on-topic.


    Third (on topic) like Boris!

    Before reading your post I thought i) Woman ii) Science then iii) Ada Lovelace - agree.

    Thatcher might be a suitable candidate in fifty years - but she's far too polarising a figure for today.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,496
    To commemorate the man who ensured we still have the fifty pound note, and not the fifty euro - surely, it has to be Gordon Brown?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited October 2018
    tlg86 said:

    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).

    Heath was an Oxford man, so beyond TSE's pale.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    I know how we often think our politicians are incompetent (I don't - I think most of them are capable smart people trying to do their best in often difficult circumstances) - how about screwing up an $11 billion trade deal to win a by-election?

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-israel-australia-indonesia/australia-insists-trade-agreement-with-indonesia-on-track-despite-israel-comments-idUKKCN1MR012
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited October 2018
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).

    Heath was an Oxford man, so beyond TSE's pale.
    Also working* class, so ditto.

    *Some argue 'lower middle' but with father a carpenter & mother a maid, I'd say 'working'
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/SykesCharlie/status/1052368405687353344

    https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1052392769040322560
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    tlg86 said:

    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).

    I’m saving Ted Heath for the €20 note for when we have to Rejoin the EU, replete with Euro membership, after Brexit proves to be an utter shambles.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    Emily Pankhurst or Stephen Hawking. Maggie would be fun. I'm not sure whether mass burnings of £50 notes would be good for the economy or bad.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    Jane Austen and J. M. W Turner are both from the arts so I think a scientist would seem logical. And Turing caught my eye for the reasons explained by TSE.

    Austen was on the tenner when I grew up though
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    Makes sense, especially as Theresa May would likely fall first, leaving the DUP to deal with her successor as Prime Minister, Philip Hammond (or Javid or Hunt).
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    John Maynard Keynes
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,314
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    What they are proposing; paralyse the domestic agenda, would be worse. A GE would be unavoidable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    I hear Prince Charles is said to be interested in replacing the woman we have had on the other side of the note for a while...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    That we will have a new £50 is in itself good news. Can we start to have the new £50 in circulation please? It's bizarre that the biggest note you are likely to get is a £20. Cash is still caah
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,314
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Attlee and Seacole look too short. The Telegraph has the case for Noor Inayat Khan here:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/new-50-note-must-become-uks-first-bank-note-feature-ethnic-minority/If we've ruled out Turing but want to celebrate Britain's place as computing pioneers then look down the list to Ada Lovelace at 50/1 -- a woman and arguably the world's first computer programmer for her work with Babbage.

    Oh, and first on-topic.


    Third (on topic) like Boris!

    Before reading your post I thought i) Woman ii) Science then iii) Ada Lovelace - agree.

    Thatcher might be a suitable candidate in fifty years - but she's far too polarising a figure for today.
    I'm going to say something and then run for cover: Lovelace's reputation is being over-promoted. She is an important figure, but not as influential as people seem to think nowadays. She was also very upper-class and, until her gambling problems, very rich.

    I'd not go for Stephen Hawking who, whilst a genius, possibly wasn't quite as influential in his field as is thought. If he was to appear, it might be for the way he showed people with severe disabilities can still contribute, rather than anything to do with physics.

    I'd go for Turing, for three reasons:
    1) He represents everyone who helped the war effort, whether at the front lines or back at home.
    2) He represents the way society has moved on, with the 'crime' that sadly led to his death now being seen as an injustice.
    3) He's more of an everyman than many others on the list; he was from an upper middle-class background rather than a 'posh' one.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Bank of England banknotes.....I remember the 10 bob note.....

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/withdrawn-banknotes
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,340
    I’m not an expert, but aren’t Turing, Hawking and Thatch all a bit young for a banknote? I’d have thought most honourees have 100+ years daisy-pushing under their belt.

    (I’d also agree there are other reasons Mrs T won’t be on there)
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,340
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).

    I’m saving Ted Heath for the €20 note for when we have to Rejoin the EU, replete with Euro membership, after Brexit proves to be an utter shambles.
    I doubt printing UK versions of the banknotes will be among our joiner concessions. We’ll probably have to change our national strapline to Liberté Egalité Fraternité if we want the coins!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    There's a big advantage to being the first Brexiter to throw the towel in. While Brexit is still in play you can still play a role bringing your tribe round, and so still come out with some relevance. I wonder who it will be. Boris? Hannan? DD?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    The disgraced national security risk overestimated his abilities, again.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Politics got in the way.

    As was said to be a likely possibility later in the article though that gets overlooked and everything after the SHOULD but before the BUT gets quoted.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    Barnier and Fox are singing from the same hymn sheet.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1052286526263054337
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    Philip_Thompson said:

    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Politics got in the way.

    As was said to be a likely possibility later in the article though that gets overlooked and everything after the SHOULD but before the BUT gets quoted.
    But we held all the aces.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Historical figures featured on BoE notes:

    Withdrawn
    1970-1991 Shakespeare (£20)
    1971-1991 Duke of Wellington (£5)
    1975-1994 Florence Nightingale (£10)
    1978-1988 Sir Isaac Newton (£1)
    1981-1996 Sir Christopher Wren (£50)
    1990-2003 George Stephenson (£5)
    1991-2001 Michael Faraday (£20)
    1992-2003 Charles Dickens (£10)
    1994-2014 Sir John Houblon (£50) - no, me neither...first governor of the BoE
    1999-2010 Sir Edward Elgar (£20)
    2002-2017 Elizabeth Fry (£5)
    2000-2018 Charles Darwin (£10)

    Current
    2007 - Adam Smith (£20)
    2011 - Matthew Boulton and James Watt (£50)
    2016 - Sir Winston Churchill (£5)
    2017 - Jane Austen (£10)

    Future
    2020 - JMW Turner (£20)

    And the process involved for selecting characters:

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/banknote-characters

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,496
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Barnier and Fox are singing from the same hymn sheet.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1052286526263054337

    Er, no. That moves nothing forward for the UK. The DUP are still going to be fulminating, the EU just incentivised to drag their feet another year.

    May has been a disaster on the back-stop. Should never have been anything the EU could ever suggest had been pocketed as agreed. It's Negotiating 1.01. Never leave anything on the table that will kill the deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1050084742144688129
    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1052442480929660928
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    Re Turing and Hawking being alumni of the finest University in the world: Turing went to Cambridge, not Oxford.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,763
    I’ve never heard of Khan, and nor I suspect have most other people. For that reason I’d rule her out.

    Hawking and Turing are good tips. I also fancy Frank Whittle and Lord Nelson, who I can very much see on a banknote.

    Given its 100 years since woman’s suffrage it’s not impossible Pankhurst or Fawcett pip it either, but they might be too political for the £50 note.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    JosiasJessop said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Attlee and Seacole look too short. The Telegraph has the case for Noor Inayat Khan here:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/16/new-50-note-must-become-uks-first-bank-note-feature-ethnic-minority/If we've ruled out Turing but want to celebrate Britain's place as computing pioneers then look down the list to Ada Lovelace at 50/1 -- a woman and arguably the world's first computer programmer for her work with Babbage.

    Oh, and first on-topic.


    Third (on topic) like Boris!

    Before reading your post I thought i) Woman ii) Science then iii) Ada Lovelace - agree.

    Thatcher might be a suitable candidate in fifty years - but she's far too polarising a figure for today.
    I'm going to say something and then run for cover: Lovelace's reputation is being over-promoted. She is an important figure, but not as influential as people seem to think nowadays. She was also very upper-class and, until her gambling problems, very rich.

    I'd not go for Stephen Hawking who, whilst a genius, possibly wasn't quite as influential in his field as is thought. If he was to appear, it might be for the way he showed people with severe disabilities can still contribute, rather than anything to do with physics.

    I'd go for Turing, for three reasons:
    1) He represents everyone who helped the war effort, whether at the front lines or back at home.
    2) He represents the way society has moved on, with the 'crime' that sadly led to his death now being seen as an injustice.
    3) He's more of an everyman than many others on the list; he was from an upper middle-class background rather than a 'posh' one.
    Turing is a worthy candidate - but out of the 18 historical figures featured on banknotes only 3 have been women, so I do think it should be a woman this time, and if not Lovelace there will be other candidates. In any case its all a bit moot until we know the field the BoE are considering:

    In 2014, we introduced a new method of selecting banknote characters: the Banknote Character Advisory Committee selects the field that we want to represent and we ask the public to nominate people from the chosen field.

    For example, in 2015, we announced that we would feature someone from the visual arts on the next £20 note. There was a huge response to the call for nominations: nearly 30,000 were made, covering 590 people from the visual arts. These included painters, sculptors, printmakers, craftspeople, designers, ceramicists, architects, fashion designers, photographers and filmmakers.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    The lying liar was lying.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,314
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Politics got in the way.

    As was said to be a likely possibility later in the article though that gets overlooked and everything after the SHOULD but before the BUT gets quoted.
    But we held all the aces.
    It does seem that ever since Cameron announced his ‘deal’ and the referendum the country has, as the saying goes, been going to hell in a handcart.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    I'll make another choice:;Robert Hooke.

    It'll make up for that sh*t Newton having been on a note ... ;)

    (Incidentally, he was great friends with Sir Christopher Wren, who has also appeared on a note. It is quite possible that some Wren churches were actually designed by Hooke.)
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    It’s a shame they already used Newton. Give his time at the Royal Mint he would have been particularly appropriate. James Clark Maxwell would be great: his contribution to Physics is up there with Einstein and Newton. Like them he made defining contributions to multiple fields (pardon the pun).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Politics got in the way.

    As was said to be a likely possibility later in the article though that gets overlooked and everything after the SHOULD but before the BUT gets quoted.
    But we held all the aces.
    As did May in the 2016 election.

    There is a consistency here and it resolves around someone you used to call I believe a Poundshop Gordon Brown.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,244
    Roger said:

    Emily Pankhurst or Stephen Hawking. Maggie would be fun. I'm not sure whether mass burnings of £50 notes would be good for the economy or bad.

    Pankhurst in the centenay of female suffrage.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Barry Chuckle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,763
    RochdalePioneers said:

    That we will have a new £50 is in itself good news. Can we start to have the new £50 in circulation please? It's bizarre that the biggest note you are likely to get is a £20. Cash is still caah

    Time, and inflation, is on your side with that.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    The other thing to consider is the BoE are unlikely to want to duplicate any of the categories currently in circulation - we currently have:

    £5 - Churchill - Politics
    £10 - Austen - Literature
    £20 - upcoming - Turner - visual arts
    £50 - Boulton & Watt - Engineering

    So that rules out a lot of the favourites....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Also unlikely anyone from the shortlist presented to the Governor (who makes the final decision) for the £20:

    J.M.W TURNER
    Barbara Hepworth
    Charlie Chaplin
    Josiah Wedgwood
    William Hogarth
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Casino_Royale said:

    Given its 100 years since woman’s suffrage it’s not impossible Pankhurst or Fawcett pip it either, but they might be too political for the £50 note.

    And we already have a politician on the £5 note.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,225
    Alan Turing is a banknotable scientist. Dorothy Hodgkin will get her banknote in time, I believe. Social reformers as a category is likely to come up soon. If this time, I would go for Emmeline Pankhurst, because of the anniversary of votes for women.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Good morning, everyone.

    Khan.

    Seacole is an inferior version of Nightingale. Attlee did a lot, but Thatcher almost certainly more (funny how being a woman doesn't get her automatic brownie points).

    From memory, Khan actually did a lot for this country, pleasing the patriotic crowd, and she's a minority and a woman, pleasing the box-tickers.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386
    Ada Lovelace? Linda Lovelace's real name?

    An interesting choice, as she only rose to fame in one of her films.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,646
    50 pound note should be Locke, Orwell or Joe Orton (my personal pick).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,843
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    I think they'll vote for the budget... This time.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    C. R. Alder Wright, given the demographic with most appetite for £50 notes.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,926

    I suspect Italy will be a bigger issue than Brexit today. Itlaians telling Juncker to clear off and ignoring his threats.

    http://www.lastampa.it/2018/10/16/economia/manovra-scontro-tra-juncker-e-salvini-moscovici-a-roma-con-un-occhio-al-quirinale-p94wZgF9fmXO6fh6hSdweN/pagina.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. CD13, has Mary Shelley[sp] ever been on a bank note?

    I keep forgetting her name, but the author of the Scarlet Pimpernel, who has a claim to have invented the superhero genre, would be another interesting choice.

    Turing's on the list, and though he'd be worthy I doubt he'll get it (wrong gender, which is rather ironic).

    Won't happen, but I'l quite like to see Alfred the Great on there. Or William Marshal. Which does raise a question: are historical figures preceding the union of crowns considered verboten, as they're English, rather than (English and) British?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,843
    As a sign of goodwill to Ireland and the EU, how about... Oliver Cromwell.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,728
    CarlottaVance said:

    Historical figures featured on BoE notes:

    Withdrawn
    1970-1991 Shakespeare (£20)
    1971-1991 Duke of Wellington (£5)
    1975-1994 Florence Nightingale (£10)
    1978-1988 Sir Isaac Newton (£1)
    1981-1996 Sir Christopher Wren (£50)
    1990-2003 George Stephenson (£5)
    1991-2001 Michael Faraday (£20)
    1992-2003 Charles Dickens (£10)
    1994-2014 Sir John Houblon (£50) - no, me neither...first governor of the BoE
    1999-2010 Sir Edward Elgar (£20)
    2002-2017 Elizabeth Fry (£5)
    2000-2018 Charles Darwin (£10)

    Current
    2007 - Adam Smith (£20)
    2011 - Matthew Boulton and James Watt (£50)
    2016 - Sir Winston Churchill (£5)
    2017 - Jane Austen (£10)

    Future
    2020 - JMW Turner (£20)

    And the process involved for selecting characters:

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/banknote-characters

    Interesting list - a common factor is that they're nearly all well-known, so unlike the Nobel committee (which really likes to pluck heroes from obscurity) the BoE likes to provide familiar faces. They also don't seem to be into what one might pejoratively call tokenism - nobody on that list seems to send an obvious message about freedom of speech or universal suffrage or gay rights or anything else that we might think thought-provoking. So a familiar face with no strong views seems a likely choice. But these open-list markets are usually a mug's game...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    Original names of BR Class 60s (not yet used on a bank note):

    Capability Brown
    Robert Adam
    Robert Boyle
    Alexander Fleming
    Elizabeth Fry
    Joseph Lister
    William Caxton
    Joseph Banks
    John Flamsteed
    William Booth
    Anthony Ashley Cooper
    Josephine Butler
    William Wilberforce
    Robert Owen
    Mary Somerville
    John Reith
    Charles Babbage
    Thomas Barnado
    William Beveridge
    John Howard
    Samuel Plimsoll
    Alexander Graham Bell
    Samuel Johnson
    James Murray
    John Logie Baird
    James Clerk-Maxwell
    Humphry Davy
    John Loudon McAdam
    Dorothy Garrod
    Reginald Munns
    John Stirk
    Charles Francis Brush (unlikely!)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,843
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Historical figures featured on BoE notes:

    Withdrawn
    1970-1991 Shakespeare (£20)
    1971-1991 Duke of Wellington (£5)
    1975-1994 Florence Nightingale (£10)
    1978-1988 Sir Isaac Newton (£1)
    1981-1996 Sir Christopher Wren (£50)
    1990-2003 George Stephenson (£5)
    1991-2001 Michael Faraday (£20)
    1992-2003 Charles Dickens (£10)
    1994-2014 Sir John Houblon (£50) - no, me neither...first governor of the BoE
    1999-2010 Sir Edward Elgar (£20)
    2002-2017 Elizabeth Fry (£5)
    2000-2018 Charles Darwin (£10)

    Current
    2007 - Adam Smith (£20)
    2011 - Matthew Boulton and James Watt (£50)
    2016 - Sir Winston Churchill (£5)
    2017 - Jane Austen (£10)

    Future
    2020 - JMW Turner (£20)

    And the process involved for selecting characters:

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/banknote-characters

    Interesting list - a common factor is that they're nearly all well-known, so unlike the Nobel committee (which really likes to pluck heroes from obscurity) the BoE likes to provide familiar faces. They also don't seem to be into what one might pejoratively call tokenism - nobody on that list seems to send an obvious message about freedom of speech or universal suffrage or gay rights or anything else that we might think thought-provoking. So a familiar face with no strong views seems a likely choice. But these open-list markets are usually a mug's game...
    Shadsys Xmas bonus
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,225
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Khan.

    Seacole is an inferior version of Nightingale. Attlee did a lot, but Thatcher almost certainly more (funny how being a woman doesn't get her automatic brownie points).

    From memory, Khan actually did a lot for this country, pleasing the patriotic crowd, and she's a minority and a woman, pleasing the box-tickers.

    Florence Nightingale's big achievement was evidence led policy. Few of her many ideas were original but she was extremely effective in getting them into policy. She was the first user of the pie chart that underpins a million PowerPoints today.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    He's campaigning for Mohammed Bin Salman
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1050084742144688129
    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1052442480929660928

    You have to wonder what is the point of MI5 if they've been scooped on this and the GRU killers, and did not have the sense to monitor Eurostar for likely jihadis. Philip Hammond could save a shedload of cash by replacing it with one man to read the foreign papers and a woman to scan twitter.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Emily Pankhurst or Stephen Hawking. Maggie would be fun. I'm not sure whether mass burnings of £50 notes would be good for the economy or bad.

    Pankhurst in the centenay of female suffrage.

    Not bad for a Moss Side lass.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    tlg86 said:

    Original names of BR Class 60s (not yet used on a bank note):

    Elizabeth Fry - £5 2002 - 2017
    Josephine Butler - Social Campaigner
    Mary Somerville - Scientist
    Dorothy Garrod - Archeologist

    But I had to google the last 3 - so not sure they fall into the category of "widely known".....compared to previous choices of the BoE.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    NickPalmer said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Historical figures featured on BoE notes:

    Withdrawn
    1970-1991 Shakespeare (£20)
    1971-1991 Duke of Wellington (£5)
    1975-1994 Florence Nightingale (£10)
    1978-1988 Sir Isaac Newton (£1)
    1981-1996 Sir Christopher Wren (£50)
    1990-2003 George Stephenson (£5)
    1991-2001 Michael Faraday (£20)
    1992-2003 Charles Dickens (£10)
    1994-2014 Sir John Houblon (£50) - no, me neither...first governor of the BoE
    1999-2010 Sir Edward Elgar (£20)
    2002-2017 Elizabeth Fry (£5)
    2000-2018 Charles Darwin (£10)

    Current
    2007 - Adam Smith (£20)
    2011 - Matthew Boulton and James Watt (£50)
    2016 - Sir Winston Churchill (£5)
    2017 - Jane Austen (£10)

    Future
    2020 - JMW Turner (£20)

    And the process involved for selecting characters:

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/banknote-characters

    Interesting list - a common factor is that they're nearly all well-known, so unlike the Nobel committee (which really likes to pluck heroes from obscurity) the BoE likes to provide familiar faces. They also don't seem to be into what one might pejoratively call tokenism - nobody on that list seems to send an obvious message about freedom of speech or universal suffrage or gay rights or anything else that we might think thought-provoking. So a familiar face with no strong views seems a likely choice.
    The BoE crireria/process:

    We run focus groups to help us identify which characters on the longlist would resonate strongly with people, and which might cause concern.

    The committee then agrees a final shortlist, based on the focus group feedback and detailed historical research about each of the characters. The shortlist also reflects our intention to portray a diverse range of characters over time.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,966
    edited October 2018
    Alanbrooke said:


    I suspect Italy will be a bigger issue than Brexit today. Itlaians telling Juncker to clear off and ignoring his threats.

    http://www.lastampa.it/2018/10/16/economia/manovra-scontro-tra-juncker-e-salvini-moscovici-a-roma-con-un-occhio-al-quirinale-p94wZgF9fmXO6fh6hSdweN/pagina.html

    "The President of the Commission: attentive to the deficit. The vice premier: the budget is gone, drink a nice coffee"

    I'm not sure auto-translate has it quite right but we get the idea...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,244
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1050084742144688129
    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1052442480929660928

    You have to wonder what is the point of MI5 if they've been scooped on this and the GRU killers, and did not have the sense to monitor Eurostar for likely jihadis. Philip Hammond could save a shedload of cash by replacing it with one man to read the foreign papers and a woman to scan twitter.
    Who do you think feeds the Bellingcat? Britain's own Fancy Bears at deniable distance?

    Our spooks know their jobs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1050084742144688129
    https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/1052442480929660928

    You have to wonder what is the point of MI5 if they've been scooped on this and the GRU killers, and did not have the sense to monitor Eurostar for likely jihadis. Philip Hammond could save a shedload of cash by replacing it with one man to read the foreign papers and a woman to scan twitter.
    That's assuming they were 'scooped'. How do you know they didn't already know this ?
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    archer101au said:

    Benpointer said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1052305236604407808

    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammond, more than almost anyone except May, is responsible for the mess the Government is in now. He refused to plan for no deal and release the necessary funds, has constantly had the Treasury release bogus forecasts of doom and now he is lying about the bill. Should be fired but of course won't be; the end of his career cannot come soon enough.
    The Treasury Solicitors' office provides the Government Legal Service.
    FLT: The Attorney General's department (Government Legal Department) provides Govt Legal advice - not linked to the Treasury. Treasury Solicitors Office no longer exists and was abolished in 2015.

    No reason for Treasury to get involved AT ALL.

    Would take the opinion of a QC over a Treasury lawyer any day of the week:

    https://lawyersforbritain.org/we-dont-owe-the-eu-any-money
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    Off-topic:

    This is quite a horrid way to die:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45882998
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. 43, yep. She also (from QI) invented effectively flat pack hospitals for use in the Crimea.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,926
    Chris Bryant making an arse of himself again

    bullying is horrendous but lets not move Bercow

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    CarlottaVance said:

    tlg86 said:

    Original names of BR Class 60s (not yet used on a bank note):

    Elizabeth Fry - £5 2002 - 2017
    Josephine Butler - Social Campaigner
    Mary Somerville - Scientist
    Dorothy Garrod - Archeologist

    But I had to google the last 3 - so not sure they fall into the category of "widely known".....compared to previous choices of the BoE.
    I agree that it probably has to be well known - that's probably how Austen made it to the £10 note. I don't think Lovelace is known enough to be in the running. Pankhurst is probably best placed if they really want a woman.

    Of the other names from the 60s list I think Wilberforce, Logie Baird and Graham Bell have the best chance.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Theresa May got in the way. If, in December, she had refused to even discuss the backstop and asked for Canada instead of obsessive cherry picking, deal would be done by now.

    Funny, because that is what DD told her to do.

    Remainers have stuffed up the negotiation. Once EU knew May would submit on everything, they offered nothing. Time for the Leavers to take over. Unfortunately thanks to May this will have to be fixed after no deal exit.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    Another list of interest for this topic:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Barnier and Fox are singing from the same hymn sheet.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1052286526263054337

    Er, no. That moves nothing forward for the UK. The DUP are still going to be fulminating, the EU just incentivised to drag their feet another year.

    May has been a disaster on the back-stop. Should never have been anything the EU could ever suggest had been pocketed as agreed. It's Negotiating 1.01. Never leave anything on the table that will kill the deal.
    Agree. The transition period extension is pointless. It is being offered in exchange for the UK agreeing to the NI backstop. If May and Robbins think that will fly they are more delusional than we thought.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    Makes sense, especially as Theresa May would likely fall first, leaving the DUP to deal with her successor as Prime Minister, Philip Hammond (or Javid or Hunt).
    100% correct. Many remainers have no idea how to negotiate or apply pressure.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,034
    Mary Seacole would be a good bet
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. 43, yep. She also (from QI) invented effectively flat pack hospitals for use in the Crimea.

    AIUI she didn't. She wanted a hospital - it was Brunel (and others) who came up with the hospital itself. I don't think she even came up with the idea of it being modular:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renkioi_Hospital

    What she did do was specify what the hospital should have in it, e.g. airflow and the conditions inside.

    As ever, don't trust anything you hear on QI ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. Jessop, aye, I remember hearing that story at the time. Tragic and senseless way to die.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    Ishmael_Z said:

    C. R. Alder Wright, given the demographic with most appetite for £50 notes.

    Never heard of him! If an appetite for £50 notes is the criteria what about Ronnie Biggs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,034
    edited October 2018
    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    If that is the case that increases the chances May will propose a single market and customs union backstop to Parliament to get the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period and still be able to stay in power and survive a No Confidence vote if she does so
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,966
    Would Marie Stopes be considered controversial for a bank note?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,034
    edited October 2018
    OldKingCole said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    What they are proposing; paralyse the domestic agenda, would be worse. A GE would be unavoidable.
    What domestic agenda? Brexit now dominates all. Even full UC has now been put off until 2023
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,646
    HYUFD said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    The DUP won’t be voting against the government in a vote of no confidence even if they vote against the budget:

    https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1051951042189910016?s=21

    If that is the case that increases the chances May will propose a single market and customs union backstop to Parliament to get the Withdrawal Agreement and Transition Period and still be able to stay in power and survive a No Confidence vote if she does so
    Its a big IF. They weren't going to paralyse the government's domestic agenda either. They will do what they believe they need to do, and simply state that events have changed their minds.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    HYUFD said:

    Mary Seacole would be a good bet

    It might be a good bet for political reasons, but I don't think her deeds justify it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,034
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm surprised @TheScreamingEagles hasn't started a campaign for Ted Heath (100-1 with Ladbrokes).

    I’m saving Ted Heath for the €20 note for when we have to Rejoin the EU, replete with Euro membership, after Brexit proves to be an utter shambles.
    At most we will rejoin the single market not the EU plus the Euro
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    edited October 2018
    archer101au said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    archer101au said:

    Benpointer said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1052305236604407808

    Not having access to the article, I cannot tell if the Torygraph has a take on Hammond's forecast. But does the fact that they've given it a front page spread indicate a softening of their hard-line Brexit stance?
    Not my reading of it. Just reporting a story.

    But Hammond is a disgrace. Firstly, he is wrong about the legal requirements of the Brexit bill and this has been subject to expert legal advice from people far more credible than the 'Treasury lawyers' that he is for some reason engaging to provide advice that is nothing to do with his department (clearly a DexEU matter). Secondly, he is talking about 'the UK losing in international arbitration' which completely ignores the fact that the UK is not subject to international arbitration on the EU treaties unless we decide to offer it; there is no jurisdiction where the EU can 'enforce' the bill.

    Hammond, more than almost anyone except May, is responsible for the mess the Government is in now. He refused to plan for no deal and release the necessary funds, has constantly had the Treasury release bogus forecasts of doom and now he is lying about the bill. Should be fired but of course won't be; the end of his career cannot come soon enough.
    The Treasury Solicitors' office provides the Government Legal Service.
    FLT: The Attorney General's department (Government Legal Department) provides Govt Legal advice - not linked to the Treasury. Treasury Solicitors Office no longer exists and was abolished in 2015.

    No reason for Treasury to get involved AT ALL.

    Would take the opinion of a QC over a Treasury lawyer any day of the week:

    https://lawyersforbritain.org/we-dont-owe-the-eu-any-money
    If you knew anything about this country you’d know that the Treasury Solicitors isn’t anything to do with the Treasury but the government, as in First Lord of the Treasury.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,034
    archer101au said:

    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Interesting.

    https://twitter.com/reutersuk/status/1052395217607905280?s=21

    What happened to the ‘easiest deal in history’?
    Theresa May got in the way. If, in December, she had refused to even discuss the backstop and asked for Canada instead of obsessive cherry picking, deal would be done by now.

    Funny, because that is what DD told her to do.

    Remainers have stuffed up the negotiation. Once EU knew May would submit on everything, they offered nothing. Time for the Leavers to take over. Unfortunately thanks to May this will have to be fixed after no deal exit.
    Without the backstop Barnier would have blocked progression to even Phase 2 of the negotiations
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,878
    tlg86 said:

    Would Marie Stopes be considered controversial for a bank note?

    Yah, her pro Eugenics views would stop it happening.
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393
    Having just listened to Simon Coveney on the Today programme I’m more confident than ever that the EU will ignore the Irish border problem by doing as David Allen Green and others suggest by moving the issue to the trade negotiations.

    I think the UK has some poor politicians but on this evidence the malaise is even worse in Ireland...
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    edited October 2018
    They’re missing a trick not having Bobby Moore on the £20, why not Alf Ramsey on the £50?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Call me old fashioned but I thought we always tended to go for people who were long dead. Locke, Milton, George Eliot. What about Handel? His music is part of the state furniture.

    And a few for SeanT. What about Oscar Wilde, E M Forster, John Maynard Keynes and John Gielgud. Four men who stood out in their respective fields and produced works of lasting significance. Neither were they men afraid to go against the accepted norms of the time.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. Jessop, cheers for that clarification. It seems something they should've gotten right.

    She still did excellent work, of course.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/brianmoore666/status/1052460444210929664
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Would Marie Stopes be considered controversial for a bank note?

    Yah, her pro Eugenics views would stop it happening.
    That would rule out quite a few people! And heck, we put Churchill on there.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,315
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, cheers for that clarification. It seems something they should've gotten right.

    She still did excellent work, of course.

    Oh indeed. She did some really important stuff.

    I stopped watching QI after about the second series. Any topic that came up, which I knew a little about, seemed to be factually dubious. They play it more for laughs than for facts.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,945
    tlg86 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    tlg86 said:

    Original names of BR Class 60s (not yet used on a bank note):

    Elizabeth Fry - £5 2002 - 2017
    Josephine Butler - Social Campaigner
    Mary Somerville - Scientist
    Dorothy Garrod - Archeologist

    But I had to google the last 3 - so not sure they fall into the category of "widely known".....compared to previous choices of the BoE.
    I agree that it probably has to be well known - that's probably how Austen made it to the £10 note. I don't think Lovelace is known enough to be in the running. Pankhurst is probably best placed if they really want a woman.

    Of the other names from the 60s list I think Wilberforce, Logie Baird and Graham Bell have the best chance.
    I thought Fry had been on a banknote?
This discussion has been closed.

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