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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To add to the current incendiary political mix Bercow is comin

SystemSystem Posts: 12,173
edited October 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To add to the current incendiary political mix Bercow is coming under pressure to resign

When the report on sexual harassment in the Palace of Westminster came out yesterday I thought that Bercow was extremely lucky over the timing.

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    If he quits, how would he vote on the Brexit deal ? I seem to have him as a ERG type ?
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    Second: like Sally...JB is a REMAINER through and through
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Third like BORIS
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    For light relief, have a look at the NZ National party collapse into infighting.

    As I can work it it goes like this, 12 months ago they lost power after 9 years. In the leadership election Simon Bridges won with the support of the chief whip Ross, who was promised shadow leader of the house as payment.

    He stiffed him for the job, they fell out. Later on details of Bridges expenses were leaked to media, investigation fingered Ross.

    When caught Ross has gone nuclear, accusing his leader of multiple counts of electoral finance fraud, including hiding donations from Chinese businessmen. Claims he recorded conversations to prove it, and is taking to police.

    Bridges has denied allegations, questioned his mental health and claimed Ross was having extra-martial affairs.

    Fantastic entertainment, to be resolved in a by-election and perhaps a criminal case if the phone records stack up.

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    oh and, third!!! (have I got this right?)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    There have also been some direct bullying accusations against Bercow himself.

    If they are proved, then the question becomes whether he is a fit and able person to look into how the culture needs to change.

    I'd argue he isn't.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Unsure if this was covered in the previous thread, but RIP Paul Allen.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45871379
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    My money would be for JB to hang on for the time being, perhaps move on at the end of the session next year (after the BREXIT deadline), however if a GE pops up (by no means impossible) that may be his cue to move on......
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,904
    Ah it'll be ok. We're not in the middle of a constitutional crisis so we don't need a speaker...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,507
    I love Lindsay Hoyle.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1051896524022648837
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/BBCPM/status/1051888871120736257
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    But, as James Forsyth points out:

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1051839860510793728
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    On topic I think Mike's initial response was correct. Bercow has indeed been very lucky with the timing of this and I seriously doubt that there is any desire to rock this particular boat until Brexit is over. At which point, if he has any sense, a Speaker who has already gone past the date he said he would serve, would be well advised to step down of his own accord. In short I think he will see out this Parliamentary year but that will be it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,507
    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bercow promised to go after 9 years. That would have been in June this year.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Casino_Royale said:

    I love Lindsay Hoyle.

    +1 More effective than Bercow and much less fond of the sound of his own voice.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited October 2018
    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,179
    Screw it, let's just replace all our politicians. Time for a cleansing fire.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    Screw it, let's just replace all our politicians. Time for a cleansing fire.

    Morning Mr Fawkes. Went with a bang last time I believe?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,904
    CarlottaVance said:

    But, as James Forsyth points out:

    https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1051839860510793728

    And I'm sure he'll be gone as soon as Brexit is over.

    So about 2032 then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,179
    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,179
    asjohnstone said:

    For light relief, have a look at the NZ National party collapse into infighting.

    As I can work it it goes like this, 12 months ago they lost power after 9 years. In the leadership election Simon Bridges won with the support of the chief whip Ross, who was promised shadow leader of the house as payment.

    He stiffed him for the job, they fell out. Later on details of Bridges expenses were leaked to media, investigation fingered Ross.

    When caught Ross has gone nuclear, accusing his leader of multiple counts of electoral finance fraud, including hiding donations from Chinese businessmen. Claims he recorded conversations to prove it, and is taking to police.

    Bridges has denied allegations, questioned his mental health and claimed Ross was having extra-martial affairs.

    Fantastic entertainment, to be resolved in a by-election and perhaps a criminal case if the phone records stack up.

    Now that's a scandal alright.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    DavidL said:

    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.

    Trump said she'd lied over being threatened for speaking of their affair.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    kle4 said:

    asjohnstone said:

    For light relief, have a look at the NZ National party collapse into infighting.

    As I can work it it goes like this, 12 months ago they lost power after 9 years. In the leadership election Simon Bridges won with the support of the chief whip Ross, who was promised shadow leader of the house as payment.

    He stiffed him for the job, they fell out. Later on details of Bridges expenses were leaked to media, investigation fingered Ross.

    When caught Ross has gone nuclear, accusing his leader of multiple counts of electoral finance fraud, including hiding donations from Chinese businessmen. Claims he recorded conversations to prove it, and is taking to police.

    Bridges has denied allegations, questioned his mental health and claimed Ross was having extra-martial affairs.

    Fantastic entertainment, to be resolved in a by-election and perhaps a criminal case if the phone records stack up.

    Now that's a scandal alright.
    Even Boris Johnson pales into insignificance with a record like that
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Major life-threatening cyber attack on UK 'in little doubt' in near future, warns security chief

    The National Cyber Security Centre warns that a life-threatening incident will almost inevitably strike the UK."

    https://news.sky.com/story/major-life-threatening-cyber-attack-on-uk-in-little-doubt-in-near-future-warns-security-chief-11526858
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Excellent points. Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around. In fact at the moment, if you take a step back you can see that Dublin holds more cards than London right now. And it will get more obvious if we ever manage to actually leave.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Good morning, everyone.

    Do we have any idea if/when Bercow will respond to the report? This was well down the order in the news last night. Should've been rather higher, I think.

    Dr. Foxy, I want the UK electorate to determine who governs the UK. I have no interest in determining who governs the Republic of Ireland. Or, for that matter, Italy or Greece, where political leaders were cast aside at the behest of the EU (or the 'overweening' 'bullying' EU as you might put it).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1052087212706320384
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TheJezziah said:

    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
    except of course the EUs aim isnt many countries working together but ultimately one country
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Is anything normal now ?
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    What stuck in the Brexiteers’ craw wasn’t so much being ruled by Brussels as being ruled by anyone but them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheJezziah said:

    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
    except of course the EUs aim isnt many countries working together but ultimately one country
    No it isn't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    logical_song said:

    DavidL said:

    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.

    Trump said she'd lied over being threatened for speaking of their affair.
    Yes, but is being called a liar by a known pathological liar really libel ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Taking the opposite view at face value, we'd all be living in tribal villages.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.
    You mean like when we loaned them £7 billion?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Foxy said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheJezziah said:

    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
    except of course the EUs aim isnt many countries working together but ultimately one country
    No it isn't.
    This is the problem for you chaps. Anyone in Europe will tell you it is and they are upfront about it. There is some debate on what the final format should look like and the pace of change but they all have a vision of what they want and each year they add in another building block.

    This could turn out to be a very good thing or a very bad thing only time will tell, but denying whats happening is silly
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    logical_song said:

    DavidL said:

    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.

    Trump said she'd lied over being threatened for speaking of their affair.
    Perhaps she needs a different lawyer, Avenatti maybe.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.
    You mean like when we loaned them £7 billion?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    Which they are. Don’t you watch the news?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Excellent points. Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around. In fact at the moment, if you take a step back you can see that Dublin holds more cards than London right now. And it will get more obvious if we ever manage to actually leave.
    Yes, the fact that the EU is so determined to support the ROI over the Irish border, despite economic risks to the continent, is a very visible demonstration of the power of Union membership. That exercise of solidarity is very visible to smaller EU states, applicant states, and also to larger powers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.
    You mean like when we loaned them £7 billion?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    Which they are. Don’t you watch the news?
    Ireland’s corporate tax rate is at 12.5% – almost half the rate of other small European countries’ rates. For example, Belgium’s rate is 33.9%, Austria’s is 25%, and Greece’s is at 29%.

    Ireland is being accused of retaining its low rate to attract large multinationals, but at the detriment to its European counterparts. That accusation has been exacerbated by a report that showed 13 of the top 100 companies in Ireland had an effective rate of less than 1% in 2015, as one Davos guest speaker pointed out.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-corporate-tax-rate-davos-stealing-3817678-Jan2018/

    How long do you reckon that's going to last?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1051896524022648837

    Sums parliament up... You have to wonder if Fawkes perhaps had the right idea.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    CarlottaVance said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.
    You mean like when we loaned them £7 billion?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    Which they are. Don’t you watch the news?
    Ireland’s corporate tax rate is at 12.5% – almost half the rate of other small European countries’ rates. For example, Belgium’s rate is 33.9%, Austria’s is 25%, and Greece’s is at 29%.

    Ireland is being accused of retaining its low rate to attract large multinationals, but at the detriment to its European counterparts. That accusation has been exacerbated by a report that showed 13 of the top 100 companies in Ireland had an effective rate of less than 1% in 2015, as one Davos guest speaker pointed out.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-corporate-tax-rate-davos-stealing-3817678-Jan2018/

    How long do you reckon that's going to last?
    Should those addle-headed Micks be leaving too? Big sister knows best what’s good for them?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Pulpstar said:

    logical_song said:

    DavidL said:

    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.

    Trump said she'd lied over being threatened for speaking of their affair.
    Perhaps she needs a different lawyer, Avenatti maybe.
    Oh lol, it already was xD. Democrat hit job all over it :p
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.
    You mean like when we loaned them £7 billion?

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billion

    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    That money was part of an EU co-ordinated bailout. It seems to have done the trick. Ireland is now in a good state and I am very grateful - I have a couple of good customers over there. International co-operation and co-ordination is a good thing.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    The only issue is whether it is the right time 'now' given Brexit stuff. Back in the summer would have been better,,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,507
    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    When are you stepping down? ;-)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Slackbladder said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    The only issue is whether it is the right time 'now' given Brexit stuff. Back in the summer would have been better,,
    Lindsay Hoyle would step right in. Not a problem.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Italy and France in fall out over migrants after french police dunped immigrants from France in to Italy. Frances defence that they made a technical error not carrying any weight.

    http://www.lastampa.it/2018/10/16/italia/la-francia-riporta-i-migranti-in-italia-salvini-attacca-macron-ora-chiarisca-NjOAiKGvGrOpxLg8egXpnM/pagina.html

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Interesting JRT polling on what the poor expect from Brexit:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1052089057168302080?s=19
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.


    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    Which they are. Don’t you watch the news?
    Ireland’s corporate tax rate is at 12.5% – almost half the rate of other small European countries’ rates. For example, Belgium’s rate is 33.9%, Austria’s is 25%, and Greece’s is at 29%.

    Ireland is being accused of retaining its low rate to attract large multinationals, but at the detriment to its European counterparts. That accusation has been exacerbated by a report that showed 13 of the top 100 companies in Ireland had an effective rate of less than 1% in 2015, as one Davos guest speaker pointed out.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-corporate-tax-rate-davos-stealing-3817678-Jan2018/

    How long do you reckon that's going to last?
    Should those addle-headed Micks be leaving too? Big sister knows best what’s good for them?
    Big sister = aggressive, imperialist neighbour.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    MarqueeMark said:

    Slackbladder said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    The only issue is whether it is the right time 'now' given Brexit stuff. Back in the summer would have been better,,
    Lindsay Hoyle would step right in. Not a problem.
    I think it's more me thinking about Bercow's ego wanting to be the 'speaker which managed Brexit'....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheJezziah said:

    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
    except of course the EUs aim isnt many countries working together but ultimately one country
    Trite leaver hyperbole doesn't detract from the key thrust of that article, which is that leavers and by extension our government haven't been listening or thinking but merely relying on their own assumptions and characterisations of the EU. Much like your own contribution to the debate.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2018
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016

    Bluff. Called.

    So much for the fearsome DUP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    When are you stepping down? ;-)
    After you, Claude...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    If Bercows goes my MP, Deputy Speaker Dame Eleanor Laing, could also be an outside shot to replace him
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Dr Fox,

    "Interesting JRT polling on what the poor expect from Brexit."

    How is that different from a general wish-list?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Foxy said:

    Interesting JRT polling on what the poor expect from Brexit:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1052089057168302080?s=19

    it doesnt seem to occur to you that these are some of the reasons why they didnt want to stay in the EU in the first place. These are people aspirations and the rich peoples EU didnt deliver them.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Alanbrooke said:

    Foxy said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheJezziah said:

    ydoethur said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    Off the top of my head, Arthur Conan Doyle and Lloyd Bridges both campaigned for that.

    Plus every Communist ever spawned, of course, from Marx and Engels on.
    It is pretty much my view, not realistic in the short term though. In the short term it is also why I voted remain and am generally supportive of the EU as a project.
    except of course the EUs aim isnt many countries working together but ultimately one country
    No it isn't.
    This is the problem for you chaps. Anyone in Europe will tell you it is and they are upfront about it. There is some debate on what the final format should look like and the pace of change but they all have a vision of what they want and each year they add in another building block.

    This could turn out to be a very good thing or a very bad thing only time will tell, but denying whats happening is silly
    “Anyone in Europe”. What a load of bolleaux.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    That is also the argument for the Union if you consider Wales and Scotland to be countries too
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Foxy said:

    Interesting JRT polling on what the poor expect from Brexit:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1052089057168302080?s=19

    looking at that list since 2017 we have

    1 more money for NHS
    2 higher employment
    3 real wage growth
    4 reduced immigration
    5 low inflation

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,507
    Nigelb said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    John Bercow has been an excellent speaker and it is past time for him to step down. Everyone has a shelf life in any job.

    When are you stepping down? ;-)
    After you, Claude...
    Easy. After the Elizabeth Line opens.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited October 2018
    asjohnstone said:

    For light relief, have a look at the NZ National party collapse into infighting.

    As I can work it it goes like this, 12 months ago they lost power after 9 years. In the leadership election Simon Bridges won with the support of the chief whip Ross, who was promised shadow leader of the house as payment.

    He stiffed him for the job, they fell out. Later on details of Bridges expenses .
    When caught Ross has gone nuclear, accusing his leader of multiple counts of electoral finance fraud, including hiding donations from Chinese businessmen. Claims he recorded conversations to prove it, and is taking to police.

    Bridges has denied allegations, questioned his mental health and claimed Ross was having extra-martial affairs.

    Fantastic entertainment, to be resolved in a by-election and perhaps a criminal case if the phone records stack up.

    Interesting as the latest New Zealand poll had the Nationals ahead still of the incumbent Labour Party 45% to 42% with the Greens on 6% and New Zealand First on 5%

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,507
    Foxy said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Excellent points. Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around. In fact at the moment, if you take a step back you can see that Dublin holds more cards than London right now. And it will get more obvious if we ever manage to actually leave.
    Yes, the fact that the EU is so determined to support the ROI over the Irish border, despite economic risks to the continent, is a very visible demonstration of the power of Union membership. That exercise of solidarity is very visible to smaller EU states, applicant states, and also to larger powers.
    Except they’re playing with a loaded gun.

    Eire is even more badly affected than the UK in a no-deal scenario.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/MariaMillerUK/status/1052097966822035456
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    OldKingCole said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the prooverweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around.


    You're right - we shouldn't 'push them around' any more - let their EU mates help them out...
    Which they are. Don’t you watch the news?
    Ireland’s corporate tax rate is at 12.5% – almost half the rate of other small European countries’ rates. For example, Belgium’s rate is 33.9%, Austria’s is 25%, and Greece’s is at 29%.

    Ireland is being accused of retaining its low rate to attract large multinationals, but at the detriment to its European counterparts. That accusation has been exacerbated by a report that showed 13 of the top 100 companies in Ireland had an effective rate of less than 1% in 2015, as one Davos guest speaker pointed out.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-corporate-tax-rate-davos-stealing-3817678-Jan2018/

    How long do you reckon that's going to last?
    Should those addle-headed Micks be leaving too? Big sister knows best what’s good for them?
    Big sister = aggressive, imperialist neighbour.
    I thought you liked the EU?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    OldKingCole said:



    Big sister = aggressive, imperialist neighbour.

    And occupying invader.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016

    No surrender! (well, maybe just a little bit of surrender)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Casino_Royale said:

    Foxy said:

    Recidivist said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    Taken at face value, that would be an argument for worldwide federal union and against any form of national independence.
    There's also a lot more independent countries now than their used to be, we have contradictory trends.
    I wouldn't see it as contradictory, but rather confirmatory. A century ago a few European countries controlled over half the world, including nearly all of Africa and most of Asia. Ever since 1918 and the breakdown of these empires into smaller independent countries, we have seen that fissile trend, and it continues after the ending of the cold war.

    What has enabled the proliferation of small countries has been the web of international institutions, from EU, UN, WTO, NATO, OAU etc. By firming up international laws and conflict resolution mechanisms the viability of smaller countries has been enhanced.

    It is why Ireland is much stronger in the EU, and why the SNP is pro EU. These organisations level the playing field with overweaning hegemonic neighbours. It also explains why those hegemonic states bristle at being restrained from bullying their smaller bretheren. Here's looking at you Trump, Putin and Brexiteers.
    Excellent points. Particularly that the UK won't be able to push Ireland around. In fact at the moment, if you take a step back you can see that Dublin holds more cards than London right now. And it will get more obvious if we ever manage to actually leave.
    Yes, the fact that the EU is so determined to support the ROI over the Irish border, despite economic risks to the continent, is a very visible demonstration of the power of Union membership. That exercise of solidarity is very visible to smaller EU states, applicant states, and also to larger powers.
    Except they’re playing with a loaded gun.

    Eire is even more badly affected than the UK in a no-deal scenario.
    Possibly, possibly not, but being part of a Union will help them through.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    An agreement providing for Gibraltar’s orderly withdrawal from the European Union is “almost complete”, the Gibraltar Government said today.

    No.6 Convent Place provided the update after an intense round of talks in Brussels last night.
    “There are a few issues that remain to be ironed out and the overarching principle of the discussions remains that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed,” No.6 Convent Place said in a statement.

    Speaking today, Spain’s Foreign Minister Josep Borrell also signalled that an agreement on Gibraltar was close.

    “I don’t think Gibraltar is a problem,” he told reporters.
    “There is a protocol in the draft agreement and this protocol was greed with the United Kingdom, so Gibraltar is not a rock on the way.”

    http://chronicle.gi/2018/10/brexit-deal-on-gibraltar-is-almost-complete-no-6-says/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    This is generating a lot of comment - some of it critical:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1052096315352641542
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    edited October 2018
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    That is also the argument for the Union if you consider Wales and Scotland to be countries too
    'if'

    Any such doubts over England?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    14 Iranian troops kidnapped near Pakistan border

    https://mobile.twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1052096156241543168
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    HYUFD said:

    If Bercows goes my MP, Deputy Speaker Dame Eleanor Laing, could also be an outside shot to replace him

    Having a women speaker might be a good idea at the moment. As good as Hoyle is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Former Tory Leader William Hague urges May to shift to either the Canada or Norway options in the Telegraph this morning and dump Chequers

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1052100932186587136
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Much of the media coverage of the Dutch operation revelled in the apparent GRU incompetence, and the embarrassment this will cause to Russia. But to conclude that the GRU is no better than the Keystone Kops risks missing the point, the GRU is by no means the first intelligence agency to be guilty of sometimes sloppy tradecraft, and it certainly won’t be the last.

    And the failings of a team carrying out what is really a pretty low level, low tech, old school close access operation should not blind us to the broader point. In the words of Ciaran Martin ‘Russia is our most capable hostile adversary in cyberspace’. The GRU has a global and sophisticated cyber capability. Certainly, for some of their operations they make use of basic techniques like phishing or the sort of operation revealed in the Hague. But that is because those techniques continue to work, rather than because that is the most the Russians are capable of.


    https://rusi.org/commentary/countering-russian-cyber-operations
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Slackbladder said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Bercows goes my MP, Deputy Speaker Dame Eleanor Laing, could also be an outside shot to replace him

    Having a women speaker might be a good idea at the moment. As good as Hoyle is.
    Indeed and Dame Eleanor takes no nonsense
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Theuniondivvie said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    That is also the argument for the Union if you consider Wales and Scotland to be countries too
    'if'

    Any such doubts over England?
    England has the same position as Germany in the EU, without England the UK would be irrelevant, the same as the EU without Germany
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    CarlottaVance said:

    This is generating a lot of comment - some of it critical:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1052096315352641542

    Useful to have some 5th columnists lined up to blame as well as the EU for any problems the Conservatives might take criticism for.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Top trolling by Sajid this morning I see!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    HYUFD said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Many countries together are greater than one. That was the argument for Europe all along and it is the reason why Brexit is failing; why it was always going to fail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/britain-eu-brussels-brexit

    That is also the argument for the Union if you consider Wales and Scotland to be countries too
    'if'

    Any such doubts over England?
    England has the same position as Germany in the EU, without England the UK would be irrelevant, the same as the EU without Germany
    Don’t you mean Bavaria in Germany?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Nigelb said:

    logical_song said:

    DavidL said:

    O/t Stormy's case seems to have taken on excess water: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45872530

    I never understood what the basis of the action was, it really made no sense.

    Trump said she'd lied over being threatened for speaking of their affair.
    Yes, but is being called a liar by a known pathological liar really libel ?
    Interesting legal argument.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1052103504154771456
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    HYUFD said:

    Former Tory Leader William Hague urges May to shift to either the Canada or Norway options in the Telegraph this morning and dump Chequers

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1052100932186587136

    Problem is the minute she does either she falls.

    PS Canada doesn't solve NI.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    TheJezziah said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    This is generating a lot of comment - some of it critical:

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1052096315352641542

    Useful to have some 5th columnists lined up to blame as well as the EU for any problems the Conservatives might take criticism for.
    Yes, if Brexit fails it must not be seen to be due to those in charge. It is important to be able to blame the underlings.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Slackbladder said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Tory Leader William Hague urges May to shift to either the Canada or Norway options in the Telegraph this morning and dump Chequers

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1052100932186587136

    Problem is the minute she does either she falls.

    PS Canada doesn't solve NI.
    It is increasingly likely the Commons and Lords will vote to stay in the single market and customs union if the alternative is No Deal as Sturgeon said yesterday regardless of who leads the Tories
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    HYUFD said:

    Slackbladder said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Tory Leader William Hague urges May to shift to either the Canada or Norway options in the Telegraph this morning and dump Chequers

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1052100932186587136

    Problem is the minute she does either she falls.

    PS Canada doesn't solve NI.
    It is increasingly likely the Commons and Lords will vote to stay in the single market and customs union if the alternative is No Deal as Sturgeon said yesterday regardless of who leads the Tories
    Pretty much yes, as they frankly should. No Deal is not an option.
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    edited October 2018
    The City of London’s success actively damages the rest of the country, says The Guardian’s long read

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/oct/05/the-finance-curse-how-the-outsized-power-of-the-city-of-london-makes-britain-poorer
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Anazina said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016

    No surrender! (well, maybe just a little bit of surrender)
    The damage wreaked by the Ulter protestants-not to mention their undisguised racism-over the years begs the question why we haven't cut ourselves adrift from them years ago.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Roger said:

    Anazina said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016

    No surrender! (well, maybe just a little bit of surrender)
    The damage wreaked by the Ulter protestants-not to mention their undisguised racism-over the years begs the question why we haven't cut ourselves adrift from them years ago.

    your mate Blair put the DUP where they are, I take it you prefer the disguised racism of Sinn Fein ?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Roger said:

    Anazina said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1051951042189910016

    No surrender! (well, maybe just a little bit of surrender)
    The damage wreaked by the Ulter protestants-not to mention their undisguised racism-over the years begs the question why we haven't cut ourselves adrift from them years ago.

    Do you mean Ultra or Ulster?

    More seriously the then Liberal Government tried to 110 years ago but the Conservatives wouldn’t let them, and indeed encouraged the Army to mutiny if necessary.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    JohnRussell said:

    The City of London’s success actively damages the rest of the country, says The Guardian’s long read

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/oct/05/the-finance-curse-how-the-outsized-power-of-the-city-of-london-makes-britain-poorer

    That will be McDonnell's justification for wrecking it.....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    JosiasJessop said:

    Unsure if this was covered in the previous thread, but RIP Paul Allen.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45871379

    He has a house on Cap Ferrat employing 40 British gardiners. The house has two entrances and when he's in residence each has 2 security men on each gate. My guess is that the £350,000,000 record for a house (currently held by a Russian neighbour of his) is soon to be broken
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,904
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1052103504154771456

    "Course, all this tells you all you need to know about the political games being played in London.

    Those same games that are frankly sapping confidence in Brussels that May can get any kind of deal over the line."

    Wasn't it clear yesterday afternoon that she can't get a deal through? If there is to be an alternative to no deal it won' be with her as PM
This discussion has been closed.