Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
Huh, I missed your conversion to soft brexit
He has in fact converted to Remain. At least that was his position mid-Barolo last weekend.
lol. Yes. Or nearly. I think at some point mid-claret last week I reluctantly decided Remain was better than No Deal.
For once, however, I do not think I am unusual in my bipolar swings. Most thinking people I know (apart from the ideological nutters at both extremes) swing between Leave and Remain or Soft or Hard Brexit, or Oh my God We're Doomed to Shut up We'll be Fine, hour by hour.
It's an entirely human reaction to a hideously unpredictable, even chaotic political development, which has the potential to change many lives, indeed alter history.
Yeah, people vacillate. Even more grist to your mill that a moderate path should be chosen.
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
While Schengen is optional for EFTA countries, FOM is, as you say, not optional. I personally think it would be the best long-term destination, but agree that after the Leave campaign we had, it's completely incompatible with the expressed view of the people and why most (not all, of course, but a big majority) of Leave voters made the vote they did:
If that was the case No Deal would be comfortably ahead of Remain in the polls rather than trailing by 10%.
The median of most voters is Leave but only with a trade deal, those who are obsessed about leaving the Customs Union and doing our own trade deals and kicking all the immigrants out are a minority.
In any case there has been a net reduction in Eastern European migration to the UK since the Leave vote anyway
'Around 45,000 people from ‘EU8’ states - which include Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic - came to Britain in the 12 months to the end of March. During the same period, 47,000 from EU8 countries left the UK, according to data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).'
If the government is unable to reach a deal with the EU, 31% of respondents said the UK should leave without a deal and with no further votes, 23% said there should a second Brexit referendum, 14% said there should be a general election and 13% said the government should try and extend the negotiation period beyond March 2019.
So 36% back an extended negotiation period or a second EU referendum compared to 31% backing No Deal. A further 14% back a general election Opinium tonight suggests could see May win a small overall majority
Err - excluding Don't Knows almost 40% back No Deal in a four horse race. When the options that are not actually available (referendum, extension) are excluded and this comes down to May's sellout vs No Deal, No Deal is going to be in the lead by the time the Commons vote.
31% is not 'almost 40%' it is less than a third. Leave got 52% so barely more than half of Leave voters back No Deal
Total is 81%; rest don't knows; exclude the don't knows and ND is 39% I believe. So vast majority of Leave voters want No Deal and that is in a four choice race. By the time May's deal has been destroyed by the ERG, in a forced choice between May and No Deal (and those are the only two actual choices) No Deal will end up in the lead.
So even with Don't Knows a quarter of Leave voters do not back No Deal.
'The vast majority' of Leave voters is not enough for No Deal, you need all of them to get over 50%. On a forced choice otherwise both Remain and May Deal will beat No Deal head to head
And a huge number of remain voters don't support another referendum.
Remain is not an option. The only choice actually available will be May's sellout vs No Deal.
No Deal will be in the lead by the time of the HoC vote. This will encourage the ERG to reject it and May will be defeated.
They do if it is No Deal.
According to ICM in order of net favourability with voters Canada is on +20%, Norway on +7%, Chequers on +5%, Remain on +1%, No Deal on an abysmal -33%.
No Deal is the only way Remainers have a chance of reversing Brexit in a second referendum.
I doubt you’ll get a customer. Archer is like all other Brexiteer ‘hardliners’ - all push and no piss.
He didn't get a customer because his point does not make any sense.
You underestimated Leavers at the referendum - you are about to learn again that principle is always more effective than fear.
Rancid xenophobia won the referendum. The disaster that is unfolding is down to the willingness of obsessive Europhobes to throw in their lot with race-baiters.
Just because we Leavers won (narrowly) do we get to ignore the 16 million Brits who wanted to stay in Europe? No. Morally, politically, emotionally, we don't.
Right. I need to record the third piece of my Demographics series.
And I need to finish writing
"2020: The Election They Wished They Had't Won"
We won't be having an election in 2020. FTPA says five years after 2017 or quite possibly 2019 if the government falls over Brexit.
If May gets her Withdrawal Agreement through 2/brexit-transition-period-could-extended-another-year-costing/
Barnier is not agreeing to settle the Irish border, nor to agree an FTA. He is still saying that the backstop will be permanent until the UK accept the separation of NI in return for an FTA. Or the UK accept EEA+CU. No other options.
May will of course agree that the UK stays in the Customs Union to get to the transition period but Barnier is moving to extend the transition period for a year so May can sell the Withdrawal Agreement Deal to enough of her backbenchers to get it through the Commons, as a backstop of staying in the Customs Union even without a time limit with an extended transition period will be less likely to be iod in the 2021 Scottish Parliament elections)
You have completely misunderstood what is being proposed.
In the transition period, we are full members of the CU and SM. We don't 'stay in the CU to get to the transition'. The transition starts on 31 March 2019.
The backstop, which would kick in at the end of the transition, keeps the UK in the CU only, but keeps NI in the SM as well.
May's 'plan' is simply to extend the transition period by a year so she can say it makes it 'less likely' we will get to the backstop. This is of course nonsense, because there is no basis for a trade agreement that will avoid the backstop. It is just a way of delaying Brexit.
But when the 'extended transition' period ends, the backstop will still kick in and will be permanent, despite May's attempts to spin it otherwise. So we will not 'leave without a deal' - we will be stuck in the CU with no way out. And we cannot be in the CU without following SM regulations.
Summary - May is a liar and is trying to deceive people that the backstop is not permanent.
We have to agree the CU backstop to get to the transition period.
The backstop keeping the whole UK in the CU only kicks in if no FTA agreed during the transition period. GB would not be in the full SM even if it stayed in the CU post transition as required by the backstop.
You keep saying “we have to agree the backstop to get to the transition period”
That’s not true. Barnier wants us to, but it is not an immutable fact
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
Rancid xenophobia won the referendum. The disaster that is unfolding is down to the willingness of obsessive Europhobes to throw in their lot with race-baiters.
No, Alastair, you don't understand.
Leavers didn't vote FOR Farage, they just voted WITH him.
See, not rancid xenophobes at all, just voted with the rancid xenophobes. Some of their best friends are European.
Yet again: Leave won by campaigning against immigration and for increased spending on the NHS. Brexit must do those two things. After that, everything else is up for discussion.
This notion that there is some platonic ideal of Brexit inherent in the referendum ballot slip is so much nonsense. If Leavers wanted a mandate for other requirements of Brexit they should have made them a central plank of their campaign.
Pandering to xenophobia was as catastrophic for Leave as for the country as a whole.
Indeed. And an economic partnership without freedom of movement would be perfect. Unfortunately our partners arent interested
Not for many. Like many other Europeans, I consider free movement a major benefit, not a cost.
Indeed freedom of movement is a major feature, not a bug, of EU membership. The legitimisation of xenophobia is sadly a consequence of withdrawal.
Just because we Leavers won (narrowly) do we get to ignore the 16 million Brits who wanted to stay in Europe? No. Morally, politically, emotionally, we don't.
And yet, we did!
Citizens of nowhere lost. Suck it up, losers!
You know, if someone offers an olive branch (especially if they are on the winning side) it is commonly wise to accept it.
Attitudes like yours, and Mr Meeks', are why Brexit might end up a fucking disaster, yet will happen nonetheless - and will also be so torrid, it will be totally irreversible.
Embittered Remoaners are their own worst enemies. Discuss.
It’s a disaster come what may now. The only choice now is which disaster.
If the government is unable to reach a deal with the EU, 31% of respondents said the UK should leave without a deal and with no further votes, 23% said there should a second Brexit referendum, 14% said there should be a general election and 13% said the government should try and extend the negotiation period beyond March 2019.
So 36% back an extended negotiation period or a second EU referendum compared to 31% backing No Deal. A further 14% back a general election Opinium tonight suggests could see May win a small overall majority
Err - excluding Don't Knows almost 40% back No Deal in a four horse race. When the options that are not actually available (referendum, extension) are excluded and this comes down to May's sellout vs No Deal, No Deal is going to be in the lead by the time the Commons vote.
31% is not 'almost 40%' it is less than a third. Leave got 52% so barely more than half of Leave voters back No Deal
So even with Don't Knows a quarter of Leave voters do not back No Deal.
'The vast majority' of Leave voters is not enough for No Deal, you need all of them to get over 50%. On a forced choice otherwise both Remain and May Deal will beat No Deal head to head
And a huge number of remain voters don't support another referendum.
Remain is not an option. The only choice actually available will be May's sellout vs No Deal.
No Deal will be in the lead by the time of the HoC vote. This will encourage the ERG to reject it and May will be defeated.
They do if it is No Deal.
According to ICM in order of net favourability with voters Canada is on +20%, Norway on +7%, Chequers on +5%, Remain on +1%, No Deal on an abysmal -33%.
No Deal is the only way Remainers have a chance of reversing Brexit in a second referendum.
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
But you missed the most important part, EFTA is not consistent with honouring the referendum result on free movement.
We could have done that in the EU had Blair imposed transition controls in 2004 on free movement from the new accession nations, in EFTA we can evict those after 3 months not in work or looking for work and lots of Eastern Europeans have headed home after the Leave vote anyway
15 years ago mate
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
But you missed the most important part, EFTA is not consistent with honouring the referendum result on free movement.
We could have done that in the EU had Blair imposed transition controls in 2004 on free movement from the new accession nations, in EFTA we can evict those after 3 months not in work or looking for work and lots of Eastern Europeans have headed home after the Leave vote anyway
15 years ago mate
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
Right. I need to record the third piece of my Demographics series.
And I need to finish writing
"2020: The Election They Wished They Had't Won"
We won't be having an election in 2020. FTPA says five years after 2017 or quite possibly 2019 if the government falls over Brexit.
If May gets her Withdrawal Agreement through 2/brexit-transition-period-could-extended-another-year-costing/
Barnier is not agreeing to settle the Irish border, nor to agree an FTA. He is still saying that the backstop will be permanent until the UK accept the separation of NI in return for an FTA. Or the UK accept EEA+CU. No other options.
May will of course agree that the UK stays in the Customs Union to get to the transition period but Barnier is moving to extend the transition period for a year so May can sell the Withdrawal Agreement Deal to enough of her backbenchers to get it through the Commons, as a backstop of staying in the Customs Union even without a time limit with an extended transition period will be less likely to be iod in the 2021 Scottish Parliament elections)
You have completely misunderstood what is being proposed.
In the transition period, we are full members of the CU and SM. We don't 'stay in the CU to get to the transition'. The transition starts on 31 March 2019.
The backstop, which would kick in at the end of the transition, keeps the UK in the CU only, but keeps NI in the SM as well.
not be in the CU without following SM regulations.
Summary - May is a liar and is trying to deceive people that the backstop is not permanent.
We have to agree the CU backstop to get to the transition period.
The backstop keeping the whole UK in the CU only kicks in if no FTA agreed during the transition period. GB would not be in the full SM even if it stayed in the CU post transition as required by the backstop.
You keep saying “we have to agree the backstop to get to the transition period”
That’s not true. Barnier wants us to, but it is not an immutable fact
Well if you want to go on blind faith that Barnier is bluffing that is up to you
If the government is unable to reach a deal with the EU, 31% of respondents said the UK should leave without a deal and with no further votes, 23% said there should a second Brexit referendum, 14% said there should be a general election and 13% said the government should try and extend the negotiation period beyond March 2019.
So 36% back an extended nority
Err - excluding Don't Knows al is going to be in the lead by the time the Commons vote.
31% is not 'almost 40%' it is less than a third. Leave got 52% so barely more than half of Leave voters back No Deal
So even with Don't Knows a quarter of Leavain and May Deal will beat No Deal head to head
And a huge number of remain voters don't support another referendum.
Remain is not an option. The only choice actually available will be May's sellout vs No Deal.
No Deal will be in the lead by the time of the HoC vote. This will encourage the ERG to reject it and May will be defeated.
They do if it is No Deal.
According to ICM in order of net favourability with voters Canada is on +20%, Norway on +7%, Chequers on +5%, Remain on +1%, No Deal on an abysmal -33%.
No Deal is the only way Remainers have a chance of reversing Brexit in a second referendum.
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
While Schengen is optional for EFTA countries, FOM is, as you say, not optional. I personally think it would be the best long-term destination, but agree that after the Leave campaign we had, it's completely incompatible with the expressed view of the people and why most (not all, of course, but a big majority) of Leave voters made the vote they did:
Right, so we choose our national path based on word clouds now? Sorry, no. Nothing on the ballot paper about FOM. Vote was 52/48. We shouldn’t infer a hardline ‘shut the borders’ path from that.
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
It's like Labour defectors.
"If not now, when?" five or six times each. The answer is of course, "never".
Rancid xenophobia won the referendum. The disaster that is unfolding is down to the willingness of obsessive Europhobes to throw in their lot with race-baiters.
No, Alastair, you don't understand.
Leavers didn't vote FOR Farage, they just voted WITH him.
See, not rancid xenophobes at all, just voted with the rancid xenophobes. Some of their best friends are European.
See, there you go. I despise you all over again, and would rather No Deal just so you have to SUCK IT UP. Wanker.
You arrogant tossers will never learn, and you deserved to lose. Even if you got your second referendum my guess is that people like you and Meeks would ensure, with your repulsive sneering, that Remain lost all over again, perhaps by a bigger margin.
Twats.
In a fresh referendum I doubt I’d vote. I couldn’t endorse Leave and in the present state of affairs Remain would be no solution. There ain’t going to be a happy ending.
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
Just because we Leavers won (narrowly) do we get to ignore the 16 million Brits who wanted to stay in Europe? No. Morally, politically, emotionally, we don't.
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
But you missed the most important part, EFTA is not consistent with honouring the referendum result on free movement.
We could have done that in the EU had Blair imposed transition controls in 2004 on free movement from the new accession nations, in EFTA we can evict those after 3 months not in work or looking for work and lots of Eastern Europeans have headed home after the Leave vote anyway
15 years ago mate
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
It remains a pivotal point, boring or not
Actually no. It’s complete conjecture (“if this has happened 15 years ago the world would be different”) and hypothetical.
You don’t know. I don’t know. What we do know is that it didn’t happen.
Right. I need to record the third piece of my Demographics series.
And I need to finish writing
"2020: The Election They Wished They Had't Won"
We won't be having an election in 2020. FTPA says five years after 2017 or quite possibly 2019 if the government falls over Brexit.
If May gets her Withdrawal Agreement through 2/brexit-transition-period-could-extended-another-year-costing/
Barnier is not agreeing to settle the Irish border, nor to agree an FTA. He is still saying that the backstop will be permanent until the UK accept the separation of NI in return for an FTA. Or the UK accept EEA+CU. No other options.
May will of course agree that the UK stays in the Customs Union to get to the transition period but Barnier is moving to extend the transition period for a year so May can sell the Withdrawal Agreement Deal to enough of her backbenchers to get it through the Commons, as a backstop of staying in the Customs Union even without a time limit with an extended transition period will be less likely to be iod in the 2021 Scottish Parliament elections)
You have completely misunderstood what is being proposed.
In the transition period, we are full members of the CU and SM. We don't 'stay in the CU to get to the transition'. The transition starts on 31 March 2019.
The backstop, which would kick in at the end of the transition, keeps the UK in the CU only, but keeps NI in the SM as well.
not be in the CU without following SM regulations.
Summary - May is a liar and is trying to deceive people that the backstop is not permanent.
We have to agree the CU backstop to get to the transition period.
The backstop keeping the whole UK in the CU only kicks in if no FTA agreed during the transition period. GB would not be in the full SM even if it stayed in the CU post transition as required by the backstop.
You keep saying “we have to agree the backstop to get to the transition period”
That’s not true. Barnier wants us to, but it is not an immutable fact
Well if you want to go on blind faith that Barnier is bluffing that is up to you
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
But you missed the most important part, EFTA is not consistent with honouring the referendum result on free movement.
We could have done that in the EU had Blair imposed transition controls in 2004 on free movement from the new accession nations, in EFTA we can evict those after 3 months not in work or looking for work and lots of Eastern Europeans have headed home after the Leave vote anyway
15 years ago mate
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
It remains a pivotal point, boring or not
Actually no. It’s complete conjecture (“if this has happened 15 years ago the world would be different”) and hypothetical.
You don’t know. I don’t know. What we do know is that it didn’t happen.
We do know that we were virtually the only country bar Sweden and Ireland which did not impose those transition controls and the largest nation not to do so and so as a consequence took a disproportionate share of Poles and Czechs and Hungarians.
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
Yet they have nowhere near the numbers to topple May in a No Confidence vote
Given where we are now, EFTA is the best bet. Then think again. We would not be stuck. Norway could leave EFTA and be entirely independent any time it likes
The fear must be that the sense of betrayal over FoM would reinvent UKIP and lead to a Corbyn government.
How do you solve that?
With a 2nd referendum where the choice is HMG's EFTA, or No Deal (or whatever Labour propose instead of EFTA)
I reckon EFTA would win fairly easily, 60/40?
Don't EFTA members participate in the Single Market and Schengen?
EFTA might have been an option if Leave hadn't focussed so much on immigration/free movement.
So EFTA isn't an option, and plus there's a strong chance that EFTA wouldn't let us in anyway given our size, we'd dominate it.
Wrong. EFTA have already said we are welcome to join.
I know you are desperate for No Deal Crash Brexit so you can feel some strange pleasure in your country's pain, as you move to Frankfurt (my sympathies), but simply lying does you no favour.
But you missed the most important part, EFTA is not consistent with honouring the referendum result on free movement.
We could have done that in the EU had Blair imposed transition controls in 2004 on free movement from the new accession nations, in EFTA we can evict those after 3 months not in work or looking for work and lots of Eastern Europeans have headed home after the Leave vote anyway
15 years ago mate
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
It remains a pivotal point, boring or not
Actually no. It’s complete conjecture (“if this has happened 15 years ago the world would be different”) and hypothetical.
You don’t know. I don’t know. What we do know is that it didn’t happen.
We do know that we were virtually the only country bar Sweden and Ireland which did not impose those transition controls and the largest nation not to do so and so as a consequence took a disproportionate share of Poles and Czechs and Hungarians.
And we don’t know what impact that had or if it would have been different with transitional controls
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
More like, it’s only playable if you can win the vote that follows. Obviously they can’t, and everyone realises that.
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
More like, it’s only playable if you can win the vote that follows. Obviously they can’t, and everyone realises that.
It’s the Samson strategy. MAD but may be effective as a threat (but the DUP is better at it)
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
More like, it’s only playable if you can win the vote that follows. Obviously they can’t, and everyone realises that.
It’s the Samson strategy. MAD but may be effective as a threat (but the DUP is better at it)
It only works if you have the strength. The ERG don’t.
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
More like, it’s only playable if you can win the vote that follows. Obviously they can’t, and everyone realises that.
It’s the Samson strategy. MAD but may be effective as a threat (but the DUP is better at it)
It only works if you have the strength. The ERG don’t.
I think a VoNC would fatally weaken May even if the ERG can’t Guarantee who would replace her
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
The people I had dinner with earlier in the week were absolutely confident they could get the 48 letters anytime they wanted
I expect so. But they haven’t, and for a good reason.
It’s their trump card (may be). It’s more powerful kept in their hand
More like, it’s only playable if you can win the vote that follows. Obviously they can’t, and everyone realises that.
It’s the Samson strategy. MAD but may be effective as a threat (but the DUP is better at it)
It only works if you have the strength. The ERG don’t.
I think a VoNC would fatally weaken May even if the ERG can’t Guarantee who would replace her
A failed vote of no confidence keeps her in place for a year. If the ERG could win, she’d already be gone. They can’t so they’re all piss and wind.
Just because we Leavers won (narrowly) do we get to ignore the 16 million Brits who wanted to stay in Europe? No. Morally, politically, emotionally, we don't.
See, there you go. I despise you all over again, and would rather No Deal just so you have to SUCK IT UP. Wanker.
You arrogant tossers will never learn, and you deserved to lose.
Twats.
That is what Brexiteers really think.
The second comment came after you - yet again - labelled me as a racist simply for voting LEAVE. It hardened my heart. And you still don't understand why.
I know you've seen this video. My advice is watch it again, and again, and again, until you - even with your painfully restrained IQ - begin to see why it is both funny and piercingly accurate, and why you guys would lose another referendum.
Haha that video is hilarious. Thanks for sharing. It is true though - calling leavers ‘little Englanders’ is going to do nothing more than to sow more division.
Remain lost because Farage's Little Englanders won the day.
The biggest collection of smug big brains, bound together by every advantage the Establishment could dream up, lost the unloseable Referendum.
To Nigel Farage.
I can see why you are still in pain. That's not just painful. That's an eighteen inch dildo up the jacksy, each and every day, painful.
All the polling shows that, if any politician made a difference on the day, it was Boris. Not Farage.
He's lost cachet since, but Bozza was the crucial political figure that probably tilted the scales. Farage was already factored in (and also ignored in crucial debates, etc).
Gove was probably a distant 2nd.
My personal favourite, however, was Sarah Wollaston, who apparently, actually and painfully campaigned for LEAVE, before, miraculously, seeing the light and suddenly switching to REMAIN, in a move that was in no-way planned and did not look transparently false and mendacious, absolutely not, Nope. No no no.
I see she is now so REMAIN she is part of the Clarke Soubry camp. lol. That's quite some conversion.
The REMAIN campaign of 2016 was the biggest fucking disaster in the history of electoral politics (and that includes Theresa May's 2017 election). Discuss.
Wollaston's position is even more bizarre when you realise she "switched" because she thought the NHS claims on that bus were risible. And then May goes and awards the NHS EVEN MORE extra per week than was on that bus.
Comments
The median of most voters is Leave but only with a trade deal, those who are obsessed about leaving the Customs Union and doing our own trade deals and kicking all the immigrants out are a minority.
In any case there has been a net reduction in Eastern European migration to the UK since the Leave vote anyway
'Around 45,000 people from ‘EU8’ states - which include Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic - came to Britain in the 12 months to the end of March.
During the same period, 47,000 from EU8 countries left the UK, according to data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).'
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1007650/brexit-news-immigration-eu-uk-net-migration-eu8
More like:
Angry Dog Growls Menacingly At Nervous Postman
Night all.
According to ICM in order of net favourability with voters Canada is on +20%, Norway on +7%, Chequers on +5%, Remain on +1%, No Deal on an abysmal -33%.
No Deal is the only way Remainers have a chance of reversing Brexit in a second referendum.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/libleave_brexit_spectrum.html
Citizens of nowhere lost. Suck it up, losers!
Tory letters stories seem to me to be grout for slow news days.
Only X numbers are required
( let x>1 but <10)
That’s not true. Barnier wants us to, but it is not an immutable fact
Given recent events, it speaks volumes that the headbangers still haven’t felt that triggering a leadership contest was a good idea. It might happen by accident, which would cause all kids of problems for everyone with ambitions in the Conservative party.
Leavers didn't vote FOR Farage, they just voted WITH him.
See, not rancid xenophobes at all, just voted with the rancid xenophobes. Some of their best friends are European.
If they think they are good enough prove it
Surely the last few major campaigns have all shown one thing polls taken prior to the heat of the campaign itself were all completely wrong.
Trump/Clinton
Remain/leave
May/Corbyn
All finished very differently to how the 'polls' were predicting at the start.
In the real world no one had any idea what canada, Norway, chequers actually mean, so the percentage support for each is meaningless.
Likewise no deal is generally assumed to mean no planes, no medicine and general economic collapse. I'm actually amazed it's polling so well
You’ve said the same thing a hundred times or more. Try to be more interesting
My conscience is clear.
May actually won enough seats to form a government again.
No Deal has led 0 polls against Remain and has a net approval rating even worse than Hillary's in 2016.
You may find it 'tiresome' polls do not support your point of view, that will not stop me posting them!
"If not now, when?" five or six times each. The answer is of course, "never".
No That is what Brexiteers really think.
You don’t know. I don’t know. What we do know is that it didn’t happen.
It’s a negotiation
The run in to Christmas gets earlier and earlier.....
You and your fellow Little Englanders won the only vote that counts.
We're fucked. Rejoice in your victory.
To Nigel Farage.
I can see why you are still in pain. That's not just painful. That's an eighteen inch dildo up the jacksy, each and every day, painful.
And she's my MP.
Little Englanders is an entirely accurate term