Entirely foreseeable as soon as Theresa starting selling the people who put her into office (DUP and Brexiteers) down the river in favour of the Remainers who can't stand her anyway,
If you actually had a single poll showing No Deal preferred to Remain rather than zero you might be able to back up your No Deal bluster. As it is, you can't
There is not a choice between No Deal and Remain. There is a choice between May's deal (if she can get one) and No Deal. May's deal will not pass Parliament. Your fantasies about a Government lead by Vince Cable are very entertaining but no substitute for reality.
If all the reporting is true tonight it is very possible brexit is over. TM may not survive the next few weeks but there will be huge demand from all sides for a second referendum
How the questions are resolved is a problem but the parliamentary arithmetic is not. While HYUFD got carried away he is consistent in reading the politics of this.
If this goes pear shaped ERG will ironically have created the scenario for them to lose the lot by pushing too hard for their minority view of brexit
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Why would that worry the DUP? They'll get most if not all the seats they hold now, and the Tories will be far less certain they can do the same. And clearly they regard some issues as more important than worrying that Corbyn has a chance to take over.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Timing is of the essence. If there is to be another referendum before we leave and which can reverse Brexit then a crisis must occur soon.
We may well get that. DUP, ERG, Tory Ultra Remainers, none appear to be supporters of anything the others are willing to back, even if May could offer it, which she mostly cannot, and Labour are wisely if cynically trying their best to be everything to everyone, so with the Tory and DUP crowd unable to get anything through (and I don';t think that can be disputed anymore) a crisis is inevitable.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
The assumption would have to be that they are not so bone head and pig ignorant to vote in a way that allows for an election under the FTPA before they have replaced her.
Maybe we need to revisit HYUFD’s No Surrender Loyalist homeland in County Down. Rehouse hard right militant orangemen like TGOHF there and let everyone else get on with their lives.
Maybe we need to revisit HYUFD’s No Surrender Loyalist homeland in County Down. Rehouse hard right militant orangemen like TGOHF there and let everyone else get on with their lives.
The pope is a hard right militant Orangeman in your pea sized Corbynborg mind.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Why would that worry the DUP? They'll get most if not all the seats they hold now, and the Tories will be far less certain they can do the same. And clearly they regard some issues as more important than worrying that Corbyn has a chance to take over.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
It would only take a handful of May loyalists, combined with the opposition to make the election happen. Not that it will!
Why would that worry the DUP? They'll get most if not all the seats they hold now, and the Tories will be far less certain they can do the same. And clearly they regard some issues as more important than worrying that Corbyn has a chance to take over.
They would be highly unlikely to ever again wield the power and influence they do under the Maydup Government?
They seem perfectly prepared to bring down that government on multiple issues now, so I am sure they can live without it. They'd rather have no power and influence over the government than participate in whatever has been offered so far regarding the EU.
Nothing has been found even in the intense period since Chequers to satisfy the DUP and the EU, and I don't see why that would change now. All sides are rejecting fudges, unequivocally for the most part, so a last minute fudge won't work. And the DUP, I suspect, are far more willing to not back down than the Tories.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
It would only take a handful of May loyalists, combined with the opposition to make the election happen. Not that it will!
Why would May want an election ? She would lose bigly.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
It would only take a handful of May loyalists, combined with the opposition to make the election happen. Not that it will!
Why would May want an election ? She would lose bigly.
I am not suggesting she will, she is too chicken, just saying that if she did, the timescale wouldn't permit an alternative leader.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
Peoples vote is dishonest and turns so many against it
Just, as Boris would say, chuck it and call it a second referendum and you may see it become quite popular
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
Will a second (or third) referendum use positions we know can be negotiated with the EU or just leave or remain again?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
Peoples vote is dishonest and turns so many against it
Just, as Boris would say, chuck it and call it a second referendum and you may see it become quite popular
There is a demonstration planned for Oct 20th, not in my power to change the branding
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
Will a second (or third) referendum use positions we know can be negotiated with the EU or just leave or remain again?
I heard somewhere the electoral commission has ruled out multiple option in any future referendum and has said it would have to be a binary choice again?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
As it stands there seems literally no majority on anything, be in GE, referendum, CHequers (even were it alive, which it isn't), Canada+++ or Norway or whatever. I suppose there is a non-zero chance that literally nothing will get through and therefore the clock is just run out, but I still find it hard to believe that even our parliament would truly let us slip out accidentally. Someone will shift direction, possibly hugely, no matter how humiliating it is.
My money would be on the government. And a second referendum I cannot see getting through unless all options are on the table - remain, no deal, whatever crap deal May has etc. Even then it is doubtful, but it depends on if there are enough remainers and Brexiteers who actually believe what they say about their side being likely to win another referendum, and willing to have one even if it has a risk of the exact opposite occurring. If remainers are so confident they will win, will all of them object to no deal being among the options? If Brexiteers are so confident the public would no deal or at least crap deal, why object to remain being among the options?
I don't even want a referendum, I think even split as it is parliament should be able to find a way through, but I don 't think it can. Maybe it could if May had been able to get something, even a smidgeon more from the EU in exchange for the further concessions they want, but that isn't happening.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
Will a second (or third) referendum use positions we know can be negotiated with the EU or just leave or remain again?
Unclear, and that is a problem. But facing a Commons that cannot agree on anything else regarding Brexit, then cobbling something together on a question is at least more achievable, even though not easy.
If you actually had a single poll showing No Deal preferred to Remain rather than zero you might be able to back up your No Deal bluster. As it is, you can't
There is not a choice between No Deal and Remain. There is a choice between May's deal (if she can get one) and No Deal. May's deal will not pass Parliament. Your fantasies about a Government lead by Vince Cable are very entertaining but no substitute for reality.
Both parliament and the country will revolt if it looks like No Deal. It will not happen, the prospect of it will trigger a GE or second referendum. Support for No Deal has nowhere near enough support to succeed. It's a fantasy to imagine it is going to simply happen by default if a deal is not struck.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
You seriously think if Remain wins a future referendum we would "put it behind us" ?
Remainers didn't "put it behind them" when they lost so why should Leavers "move on" if they lose next time?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
Even a remain vote will not put brexit behind us
It is likely the EU could find a hostile UK government causing it problems from within.
A conservative government led by a brexiteer with a majority is not going to be very co-operative
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
Some people still would not give up. But more MPs probably would. Part of May's trouble now in selling a crap deal is that too many Tories and in Labour see no reason to go for her route as a way to avoid hard brexit or no deal, as they think no brexit is within their grasp, rightly or wrongly. A second referendum would hardly resolve the entire mess since by its very nature one could hardly argue against further agitation, but if it was for 'leave, no matter what' i don't think even with our MPs that is absurd to think a few more would drop their opposition to an EU proposed deal, even if crap.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
Even a remain vote will not put brexit behind us
It is likely the EU could find a hostile UK government causing it problems from within.
A conservative government led by a brexiteer with a majority is not going to be very co-operative
Or popular in the UK, which will be wholeheartedly sick of Brexit by then.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
Cannot see that happening, or most of the Tory party voting for something like that when Leave is such a force. Some hard leavers and some continuity remainers would need to be willing to accept remain and no deal and deal be options to have a chance.
The problem is really ardent no dealers - they have no reason to compromise and vote for a referendum which allows remain to be among the options, even if they are confident they would win it, since they get that if nothing is agreed anyway.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party,
Really? Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry are NOT "most" of the Tory Party (even though it sometimes feels like they are due to the media attention they are given...)
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party,
Really? Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry are NOT "most" of the Tory Party (even though it sometimes feels like they are due to the media attention they are given...)
Neither are ERG who say upto 40 would reject the deal. Even at 100 they are still outnumbered by 216
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party,
Really? Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry are NOT "most" of the Tory Party (even though it sometimes feels like they are due to the media attention they are given...)
Neither are ERG who say upto 40 would reject the deal. Even at 100 they are still outnumbered by 216
Well ERG are vastly more inline with Conservative members and voters on Brexit that Clarke and Soubry.
If you actually had a single poll showing No Deal preferred to Remain rather than zero you might be able to back up your No Deal bluster. As it is, you can't
There is not a choice between No Deal and Remain. There is a choice between May's deal (if she can get one) and No Deal. May's deal will not pass Parliament. Your fantasies about a Government lead by Vince Cable are very entertaining but no substitute for reality.
Both parliament and the country will revolt if it looks like No Deal. It will not happen, the prospect of it will trigger a GE or second referendum. Support for No Deal has nowhere near enough support to succeed. It's a fantasy to imagine it is going to simply happen by default if a deal is not struck.
So who will break to permit a referendum? It won't be the ERG lot, so say it is May, what kind of referendum would the remainder of her party be willing to ask for, and would Labour permit it?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
The thing is that if TMay did decide to go for it, what would be the point of bringing her down? Having set the expectation of another referendum it would be untenable for any replacement to plough on without one.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
Why would she call a referendum if she had a deal?
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party,
Really? Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry are NOT "most" of the Tory Party (even though it sometimes feels like they are due to the media attention they are given...)
Neither are ERG who say upto 40 would reject the deal.
We don't even know what that will be. If 40 would reject it automatically, then given more concessions are demanded, with the EU offering nothing in return it seems, then I would think more than 40 would rebel, since you have the ardent leavers, and those for whom further concessions are too much.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
It comes if No Deal, that is when Tory MPs like Amber Rudd have said they will back a People's vote and with Labour, the LDs and the SNP and around 40 Tory MPs who oppose No Deal it then has a majority
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
Why would she call a referendum if she had a deal?
Because she doesn't have the votes to get a deal through parliament. Honestly, it doesn't look like she will come close to having the votes.
A referendum gives a chance to all sides, so is potentially acceptable as a way out of this.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
I can't see where the majority comes from for a second referendum, Parliament is split on that as well.
TMay Deal subject to re-referendum (deal vs remain) feels like it might have a majority. Most of the Tory party, then SNP + LD + Lab Rebel. The hard part is that the PM has to want to do this, and the Tory Party has to let them continue being PM while they do.
The thing is that if TMay did decide to go for it, what would be the point of bringing her down? Having set the expectation of another referendum it would be untenable for any replacement to plough on without one.
Well something has to break, to break this deadlock. The EU’s red lines, the UKs border, the Tory party, the govt, the DUP, TM’s premiership. Something has to give. Just a question of what.
If (still a big if) there is to be a second referendum then will it be deal or call it off, no deal or call it off or deal versus no deal? Or will it be a complex set of questions ranking all three? The latter would be a better test of public opinion but designing such a referendum and getting support for its legitimacy would be a hell of a task!
Will a second (or third) referendum use positions we know can be negotiated with the EU or just leave or remain again?
I think the idea would be that unlike last time, the two would coincide. Ask the rest of the EU to confirm membership could resume without punishment beatings, and put that to a vote against the government's deal (if there was one) or the de-facto reality of no-deal (if there was no deal).
This is generally a better way to do referendums: The government has a proposal which it thinks you should accept, but if you don't like it you can choose the status quo. Cameron's bright idea of having a referendum on Status Quo (recommended) vs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ was quite unusual, for reasons that I think have become clear since.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
Even a remain vote will not put brexit behind us
It is likely the EU could find a hostile UK government causing it problems from within.
A conservative government led by a brexiteer with a majority is not going to be very co-operative
That might be good fun. Veto and block everything.
Well something has to break, to break this deadlock. The EU’s red lines, the UKs border, the Tory party, the govt, the DUP, TM’s premiership. Something has to give. Just a question of what.
Quite so. I had thought TM's premiership would have first, allowing other options to be at least attempted, but no. So now I am thinking it is the UKs border - yes, the government is dependent on the DUP, but it's easier to counter the, with Labour rebels on this issue than mass Tory rebellion.
If you actually had a single poll showing No Deal preferred to Remain rather than zero you might be able to back up your No Deal bluster. As it is, you can't
There is not a choice between No Deal and Remain. There is a choice between May's deal (if she can get one) and No Deal. May's deal will not pass Parliament. Your fantasies about a Government lead by Vince Cable are very entertaining but no substitute for reality.
If all the reporting is true tonight it is very possible brexit is over. TM may not survive the next few weeks but there will be huge demand from all sides for a second referendum
How the questions are resolved is a problem but the parliamentary arithmetic is not. While HYUFD got carried away he is consistent in reading the politics of this.
If this goes pear shaped ERG will ironically have created the scenario for them to lose the lot by pushing too hard for their minority view of brexit
The problem is not the ERGs view of Brexit. It is the massive mistake by May in agreeing to a backstop. The backstop cannot be delivered because it is an absurd concept that somehow the UK needs to split itself up just to make it a bit more convenient for the EU to manage their border. The backstop was a trap, May jumped in and there is no way out. It is not the ERGs fault - May cannot agree to a customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea because it is fundamentally wrong so she should never have gone down this path.
May (and the remainers, eg Rudd) always wanted a bespoke deal. The backstop makes that impossible as well - as soon as the EU have the money and the backstop why would they agree such a deal?
May got us into this mess by making a needless concession. It wil not end Brexit. It will just lead to a no deal Brexit. Either May can be the one to declare that the EU are unreasonable, opt for no deal and unite the nation and country behind her, or she can try and engage in an utter sell out and be forced and humiliated by the DUP and ERG. Unfortunately we can guess which path she will choose.
Peston admitting his failure to understand the DUP position.
It’s really straightforward, Arlene has explained it clearly all week. Are you listening Peston? The DUP position is that if they cave into pressure compromise now, how does that play out into the future? Does it open a gate towards United Ireland. Is it a step towards something there can be no stepping back from?
I think what isn’t helping DUP and the whole Brexit negotiation, Government negotiating secretly with EU, not sharing with DUP, DUP second guessing what’s being said, traded, that doesn’t help them come round to solutions, spring something on someone late in the day they can feel they are being bounced.
And the Tories won't let her face the electorate again after her last balls up...
If she calls a new election (she won't) then they get no time to replace her before polling day, though deposing her after the starters gun has been fired could make for a unique Christmas election!
Due to the fixed term parliament act Theresa can only have an election if Parliament agrees.
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
Which is why a referendum, on something, is more likely - ok, it is still not easy, but it is quite clear there is no majority for anything in the Commons except, it is alleged, that most do not want no deal (even if they cannot agree with what they do want). And since the Tories would be very daft to ask for and receive a GE when they cannot even agree among themselves what to approve, and yet we still need to move forward somehow, a referendum becomes a very real option.
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Yes, a #peoplesvote is the only way to break the deadlock. Even senior Tories are coming round to the idea.
And if the stupid, filthy. disgusting dregs of society are daft enough to not be told what to do by their "better's" and vote the wrong way again? Then what?
There'll be no wrong way. Either people will vote for the deal, in which case it will sail through parliament, or they'll vote for Remain and we can put Brexit behind us.
Even a remain vote will not put brexit behind us
It is likely the EU could find a hostile UK government causing it problems from within.
A conservative government led by a brexiteer with a majority is not going to be very co-operative
Or popular in the UK, which will be wholeheartedly sick of Brexit by then.
I will have to dig out a research paper I read a few weeks ago on the role of the Queen in the FTPA. I've not located if on a quick scout just now, so will remember as best I can.
It did deal with loss of supply, as distinct from formal loss of confidence. Loss of supply, it argued, does bring with it certain symptoms of government shutdown and is immediately serious. It argued that the Queen would invite May to resign within days should no resolution be found - no VoNC required.
That would lead towards a new administration which had yet to gain confidence, so the 14 day ticker would begin. Royal neutrality would, in effect, mean the line of least controversy in selecting a new government. I think the clear first port of call would be to ask Graham Brady, not to form a government himself, but to sees whether he could agree an (interrim) leader and PM within the party.
The other thing it said the Queen could do it there were no clear successor claim would be to request invitation votes in parliament for forming a government to assess the chances of any potential PM candidate succeeding. A proper confirmation of the government line up and official gaining of confidence would have to follow, but it would act as a strong indicator of any claim.
Apologies if my reflections are a bit fuzzy here, but I think this was fairly close to what was suggested.
I will have to dig out a research paper I read a few weeks ago on the role of the Queen in the FTPA. I've not located if on a quick scout just now, so will remember as best I can.
It did deal with loss of supply, as distinct from formal loss of confidence. Loss of supply, it argued, does bring with it certain symptoms of government shutdown and is immediately serious. It argued that the Queen would invite May to resign within days should no resolution be found - no VoNC required.
That would lead towards a new administration which had yet to gain confidence, so the 14 day ticker would begin. Royal neutrality would, in effect, mean the line of least controversy in selecting a new government. I think the clear first port of call would be to ask Graham Brady, not to form a government himself, but to sees whether he could agree an interrim leader and PM.
The other thing it said the Queen could do it there were no clear successor claim would be to request invitation votes in parliament for forming a government for any pretender. A proper confirmation of the government line up and official gaining of confidence would have to follow, but it would act as an indicator of who could form a government.
Apologies if my reflections are a bit fuzzy here, but I think this was fairly close to what was suggested.
[after losing the simulated Tory majority in 2017]
THERESA: Any suggestions, Admiral? TSE: Prayer, Mrs May. The EU Commission don't take prisoners. Lights! Well, Mrs May, are you going to stay with the sinking ship? THERESA: Permission to speak candidly, sir? TSE: Granted. THERESA: I don't believe this was a fair test of my Prime Ministerial abilities. TSE: And why not? THERESA: Because ...there was no way to win. TSE: A no-win situation is a possibility every Prime Minister may face. Has that never occurred to you? THERESA: No sir. It has not. TSE: How we deal with Brexit is at least as important as how we deal with life, wouldn't you say? THERESA: As I indicated, Admiral, that thought had not occurred to me. TSE: Well, now you have something new to think about. Carry on.
TSE: Well Prime Minister, Barnier and Juncker have entered the room and are locking their arguments on us. JOHNSON (for it is he): That's Okay. TSE: That's Okay? JOHNSON: Yes, don't worry about it. PB MEMBERS: Did he just say don't worry about it? Is he not taking this negotiation seriously? JAVID: Merkel, Macron and Varadker have arrived and they are targeting our strategy. I don't suppose that’s a problem either? JRM: They’re making proposals to turn us into a vassal state, Prime Minister. JOHNSON: Alert the press to prepare to announce successful Brexit. SOUBRY: And how do you expect us to do that while we’re not part of EFTA? JOHNSON: Alert the press. JAVID: Our credibility is being hit. Border integrity at 60%. JOHNSON: I understand. JAVID: Well should we, I don't know, make proposals back? JOHNSON: No. (he drinks a cup of tea) JAVID: Of course not. (the power of project fear seems to go out for a second) PB MEMBERS: What is this? What's going on? JOHNSON: Hmm... notify the WTO that we endorse and accept all the FTAs which the EU has already ratified, and prepare to send ambassadors to the EU countries. JRM: Yes, sir. JAVID: Prime Minister, their tariffs are still up. JOHNSON: Are they? JAVID: No. They're not. JOHNSON: Send the ambassadors. One FTA each should do it, so don't waste civil servants. JRM: Sessions agreed with all countries. Meetings held. (the FTAS are easily signed) JRM: All tariffs destroyed, Prime Minister. JOHNSON: Begin rescue of the Tory Party credibility. So, we've managed to eliminate all EU interference in our national life, no one important was injured, and the successful rescue of the British economy is underway. [Under the WTO Most Favoured Nations, (MFN), regulations, the EU cannot refuse the UK the same, best terms afforded to any other nation with which it has a Free Trade Agreement] PB MEMBERS: How the hell did that ******* beat your test? TSE: I do not know.
Comments
https://vimeo.com/217394294
How the questions are resolved is a problem but the parliamentary arithmetic is not. While HYUFD got carried away he is consistent in reading the politics of this.
If this goes pear shaped ERG will ironically have created the scenario for them to lose the lot by pushing too hard for their minority view of brexit
I would think the one thing Remainer and Leaver (as well as DUP) Tories can agree on is that this waste of space May should never, ever be allowed to face the electorate again...
So I could see them voting against her call for an election and then Mrs May resigns from office within an hour...
' Nationalising our water could make us the dirty man of Europe again
We should resist simplistic calls in England and Wales for state ownership that wouldn’t automatically clean up our water '
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/nationalising-britain-water-industry-environment
After all, if nothing on the table has Commons approval, and yet enough MPs at least agree generically that no deal cannot be allowed to happen, what other option is there other than shunting the choice back to the people?
Nothing has been found even in the intense period since Chequers to satisfy the DUP and the EU, and I don't see why that would change now. All sides are rejecting fudges, unequivocally for the most part, so a last minute fudge won't work. And the DUP, I suspect, are far more willing to not back down than the Tories.
Just, as Boris would say, chuck it and call it a second referendum and you may see it become quite popular
Meanwhile the rapidly improving trade balance gets little attention:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/ikbj/mret
The lowest for twenty years - amazing what having a competitive exchange rate can do.
Do you support “Remain” or “Not leave” ?
Not sure how true that is though.
My money would be on the government. And a second referendum I cannot see getting through unless all options are on the table - remain, no deal, whatever crap deal May has etc. Even then it is doubtful, but it depends on if there are enough remainers and Brexiteers who actually believe what they say about their side being likely to win another referendum, and willing to have one even if it has a risk of the exact opposite occurring. If remainers are so confident they will win, will all of them object to no deal being among the options? If Brexiteers are so confident the public would no deal or at least crap deal, why object to remain being among the options?
I don't even want a referendum, I think even split as it is parliament should be able to find a way through, but I don 't think it can. Maybe it could if May had been able to get something, even a smidgeon more from the EU in exchange for the further concessions they want, but that isn't happening.
Remainers didn't "put it behind them" when they lost so why should Leavers "move on" if they lose next time?
It is likely the EU could find a hostile UK government causing it problems from within.
A conservative government led by a brexiteer with a majority is not going to be very co-operative
The problem is really ardent no dealers - they have no reason to compromise and vote for a referendum which allows remain to be among the options, even if they are confident they would win it, since they get that if nothing is agreed anyway.
A referendum gives a chance to all sides, so is potentially acceptable as a way out of this.
This is generally a better way to do referendums: The government has a proposal which it thinks you should accept, but if you don't like it you can choose the status quo. Cameron's bright idea of having a referendum on Status Quo (recommended) vs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ was quite unusual, for reasons that I think have become clear since.
NEW THREAD with a first available.
May (and the remainers, eg Rudd) always wanted a bespoke deal. The backstop makes that impossible as well - as soon as the EU have the money and the backstop why would they agree such a deal?
May got us into this mess by making a needless concession. It wil not end Brexit. It will just lead to a no deal Brexit. Either May can be the one to declare that the EU are unreasonable, opt for no deal and unite the nation and country behind her, or she can try and engage in an utter sell out and be forced and humiliated by the DUP and ERG. Unfortunately we can guess which path she will choose.
I think what isn’t helping DUP and the whole Brexit negotiation, Government negotiating secretly with EU, not sharing with DUP, DUP second guessing what’s being said, traded, that doesn’t help them come round to solutions, spring something on someone late in the day they can feel they are being bounced.
It did deal with loss of supply, as distinct from formal loss of confidence. Loss of supply, it argued, does bring with it certain symptoms of government shutdown and is immediately serious. It argued that the Queen would invite May to resign within days should no resolution be found - no VoNC required.
That would lead towards a new administration which had yet to gain confidence, so the 14 day ticker would begin. Royal neutrality would, in effect, mean the line of least controversy in selecting a new government. I think the clear first port of call would be to ask Graham Brady, not to form a government himself, but to sees whether he could agree an (interrim) leader and PM within the party.
The other thing it said the Queen could do it there were no clear successor claim would be to request invitation votes in parliament for forming a government to assess the chances of any potential PM candidate succeeding. A proper confirmation of the government line up and official gaining of confidence would have to follow, but it would act as a strong indicator of any claim.
Apologies if my reflections are a bit fuzzy here, but I think this was fairly close to what was suggested.
JOHNSON (for it is he): That's Okay.
TSE: That's Okay?
JOHNSON: Yes, don't worry about it.
PB MEMBERS: Did he just say don't worry about it? Is he not taking this negotiation seriously?
JAVID: Merkel, Macron and Varadker have arrived and they are targeting our strategy. I don't suppose that’s a problem either?
JRM: They’re making proposals to turn us into a vassal state, Prime Minister.
JOHNSON: Alert the press to prepare to announce successful Brexit.
SOUBRY: And how do you expect us to do that while we’re not part of EFTA?
JOHNSON: Alert the press.
JAVID: Our credibility is being hit. Border integrity at 60%.
JOHNSON: I understand.
JAVID: Well should we, I don't know, make proposals back?
JOHNSON: No. (he drinks a cup of tea)
JAVID: Of course not.
(the power of project fear seems to go out for a second)
PB MEMBERS: What is this? What's going on?
JOHNSON: Hmm... notify the WTO that we endorse and accept all the FTAs which the EU has already ratified, and prepare to send ambassadors to the EU countries.
JRM: Yes, sir.
JAVID: Prime Minister, their tariffs are still up.
JOHNSON: Are they?
JAVID: No. They're not.
JOHNSON: Send the ambassadors. One FTA each should do it, so don't waste civil servants.
JRM: Sessions agreed with all countries. Meetings held.
(the FTAS are easily signed)
JRM: All tariffs destroyed, Prime Minister.
JOHNSON: Begin rescue of the Tory Party credibility. So, we've managed to eliminate all EU interference in our national life, no one important was injured, and the successful rescue of the British economy is underway.
[Under the WTO Most Favoured Nations, (MFN), regulations, the EU cannot refuse the UK the same, best terms afforded to any other nation with which it has a Free Trade Agreement]
PB MEMBERS: How the hell did that ******* beat your test?
TSE: I do not know.