Wind is unlikely to get much cheaper, because the costs - i.e. concrete, land, interconnection and people - don't scale well. In the case of solar, there are some innovations in the works that could see prices halve or third from here. (And, in fact, prices have fallen from $4/watt to $0.70 - or more than 80% - over the past five years.) In fact, one of the reasons that utilities are so reluctant to invest in new capacity is the risk that demand that goes to dispatchable power generation could be hammered by this. (In Germany, the majority of new solar installations are being done without subsidy, because it's cheaper to generate your own electricity now, than to buy it off the grid.)
As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled. All these plants could be brought back on-line within two years if wholesale power prices (and the gas spread) were to improve.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
Offtopic - the Royal Mail has taken the entire £5k I offered for some of their shares - it has left my account.
Does this mean I will get the full £5k OF shares I reqiested, or do they hand back the cash they don't use, or what? Any share-dealing brainiacs know the skinny?
Also, when can I start selling? Some say tomorrow some say Tuesday. Confusing.
No, the full amount of money you have committed will be taken from your account and then you will be refunded any money left over. I could see you being limited to only £750 worth of stock, if the government get panicked about the rich doing well out of this offer.
Weird thing about British politics: The left stopped doing socialism and made a big song-and-dance about it. But meanwhile the right have given up doing free markets, and everybody's too polite to mention it.
Who ever claimed electicity was a totally free market? It's highly regulated, with massive government influence via the planning system, carbon emission targets, and infrastructure planning, harnessing the private sector to actuall build and run the power stations.
That's exactly why Ed Miliband's comments were so irresponsible. The electricity companies have no choice but to look extremely carefully at what governments may throw at them.
Wind is unlikely to get much cheaper, because the costs - i.e. concrete, land, interconnection and people - don't scale well. In the case of solar, there are some innovations in the works that could see prices halve or third from here. (And, in fact, prices have fallen from $4/watt to $0.70 - or more than 80% - over the past five years.) In fact, one of the reasons that utilities are so reluctant to invest in new capacity is the risk that demand that goes to dispatchable power generation could be hammered by this. (In Germany, the majority of new solar installations are being done without subsidy, because it's cheaper to generate your own electricity now, than to buy it off the grid.)
As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled. All these plants could be brought back on-line within two years if wholesale power prices (and the gas spread) were to improve.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
Xlibris1 @Xlibris1 Interesting fm Crick on Cameron milestone - 1,258 days in office Of the 23 people appointed to Cabinet 15 still there & likly 2015 Stable !
Also, when can I start selling? Some say tomorrow some say Tuesday. Confusing.
If you applied via one of the on-line brokers such as Hargreaves Lansdown or Barclays, you can deal as soon as your account shows the share allocations, which should be tomorrow ('conditional dealing').
If you applied directly via the government website, you can't deal until Tuesday (the date of 'full listing'), or whenever you get confirmation of the allocation (which might be later, especially if you applied by post).
Those badgers are too clever for us by half. I think we have to implement the McArthur strategy and nuke them. Send hunters in with orders to shoot anything that looks like a badger, If they polish off a few foxes, dogs, green party supporters (Neil had better stay away) or Brian May, then it's a bonus. And to make sure, gas the setts.
Brock, this means you.
And thanks from me to Chuka. I was cautious about this privatisation until he convinced me; then I had a little gamble.
Wind is unlikely to get much cheaper, because the costs - i.e. concrete, land, interconnection and people - don't scale well. In the case of solar, there are some innovations in the works that could see prices halve or third from here. (And, in fact, prices have fallen from $4/watt to $0.70 - or more than 80% - over the past five years.) In fact, one of the reasons that utilities are so reluctant to invest in new capacity is the risk that demand that goes to dispatchable power generation could be hammered by this. (In Germany, the majority of new solar installations are being done without subsidy, because it's cheaper to generate your own electricity now, than to buy it off the grid.)
As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled. All these plants could be brought back on-line within two years if wholesale power prices (and the gas spread) were to improve.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
Yep, fair enough. But those plants will be costing a great deal of money to keep mothballed in more-or-less working order. How long can the companies be expected to take that hit?
It's also interesting to see the working lives of these stations - Keadby was built in 1996, so had only 16-17 years commissioned. Roosecote had a little over 20 years. Not a great amount of time to pay back your investment, when the previous generation of stations mostly had 30+ years of working life.
Having said that, there has always been reserve stations available at short order - Willington B was such at the end of its life. ISTR it was kept in working order, and able to be repowered within a few months.
"The energy companies are clearly tired of being cast as the demonic enemies of struggling Britain. First Ed Miliband threatens to freeze their prices (which is to say, their profits). Then David Cameron – recognising a no-win trap when he sees one – agrees that the Opposition has struck a nerve with its accusations of profiteering in the energy market.
So today, the companies which have been cast as undisputed forces of darkness – who are, oddly, the dispensers of light and heat – have begun to fight back. One of the chief reasons for their price increases, they say, is that successive governments have forced them to become tax collectors: green taxes and the cost of subsidising new eco-friendly forms of energy production have all been loaded on to energy bills instead of being paid directly to HM Treasury. So instead of the sitting government getting the ignominy for higher taxes, the energy companies must take the blame – and then be chastised by politicians of all parties for their pains. The airlines, caught in a similar dilemma, have taken to printing very clearly on their websites precisely what proportion of your airfare is accounted for by fuel duty: the percentage is gratifyingly shocking and educative to the consumer."
Wind is unlikely to get much cheaper, because the costs - i.e. concrete, land, interconnection and people - don't scale well. In the case of solar, there are some innovations in the works that could see prices halve or third from here. (And, in fact, prices have fallen from $4/watt to $0.70 - or more than 80% - over the past five years.) In fact, one of the reasons that utilities are so reluctant to invest in new capacity is the risk that demand that goes to dispatchable power generation could be hammered by this. (In Germany, the majority of new solar installations are being done without subsidy, because it's cheaper to generate your own electricity now, than to buy it off the grid.)
As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled. All these plants could be brought back on-line within two years if wholesale power prices (and the gas spread) were to improve.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
O/T: Alice Munro has won the Nobel Literature prize. I like her stories but I think the Nobel poo-bahs are wrong in saying that she's currently the best short story writer around. The best one, by far, is William Trevor - now in his 80's and still writing.
O/T: Alice Munro has won the Nobel Literature prize. I like her stories but I think the Nobel poo-bahs are wrong in saying that she's currently the best short story writer around. The best one, by far, is William Trevor - now in his 80's and still writing.
RT @Nobelprize_org: The Swedish Academy has not been able to get a hold of Alice Munro, left a phone message. #NobelPrize #Literature
Offtopic - the Royal Mail has taken the entire £5k I offered for some of their shares - it has left my account.
Does this mean I will get the full £5k OF shares I reqiested, or do they hand back the cash they don't use, or what? Any share-dealing brainiacs know the skinny?
Also, when can I start selling? Some say tomorrow some say Tuesday. Confusing.
No, the full amount of money you have committed will be taken from your account and then you will be refunded any money left over. I could see you being limited to only £750 worth of stock, if the government get panicked about the rich doing well out of this offer.
Not sure about trading begin date
I'm not rich!
*remembers he made €50,000, just this morning*
OK, I'm rich.
And you're an exporter - re-balancing the economy single handedly.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
Yep, fair enough. But those plants will be costing a great deal of money to keep mothballed in more-or-less working order. How long can the companies be expected to take that hit?
It's also interesting to see the working lives of these stations - Keadby was built in 1996, so had only 16-17 years commissioned. Roosecote had a little over 20 years. Not a great amount of time to pay back your investment, when the previous generation of stations mostly had 30+ years of working life.
Having said that, there has always been reserve stations available at short order - Willington B was such at the end of its life. ISTR it was kept in working order, and able to be repowered within a few months.
The answer is - not very long - they decided to take Teeside out of mothball and demolish it six days ago!
I believe the capacity payments system includes a sum for mothballed plant - presumably offering just enough cash to keep stuff at cash zero.
"As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled."
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
Yep, fair enough. But those plants will be costing a great deal of money to keep mothballed in more-or-less working order. How long can the companies be expected to take that hit?
It's also interesting to see the working lives of these stations - Keadby was built in 1996, so had only 16-17 years commissioned. Roosecote had a little over 20 years. Not a great amount of time to pay back your investment, when the previous generation of stations mostly had 30+ years of working life.
Having said that, there has always been reserve stations available at short order - Willington B was such at the end of its life. ISTR it was kept in working order, and able to be repowered within a few months.
The answer is - not very long - they decided to take Teeside out of mothball and demolish it six days ago! .
"The energy companies are clearly tired of being cast as the demonic enemies of struggling Britain. First Ed Miliband threatens to freeze their prices (which is to say, their profits). Then David Cameron – recognising a no-win trap when he sees one – agrees that the Opposition has struck a nerve with its accusations of profiteering in the energy market.
So today, the companies which have been cast as undisputed forces of darkness – who are, oddly, the dispensers of light and heat – have begun to fight back. One of the chief reasons for their price increases, they say, is that successive governments have forced them to become tax collectors: green taxes and the cost of subsidising new eco-friendly forms of energy production have all been loaded on to energy bills instead of being paid directly to HM Treasury. So instead of the sitting government getting the ignominy for higher taxes, the energy companies must take the blame – and then be chastised by politicians of all parties for their pains. The airlines, caught in a similar dilemma, have taken to printing very clearly on their websites precisely what proportion of your airfare is accounted for by fuel duty: the percentage is gratifyingly shocking and educative to the consumer."
I haven't read any of Cameron's views on energy prices except that ReD "struck a chord, but I don't believe Cameron would have said that the companies were "profiteering".
The airlines, caught in a similar dilemma, have taken to printing very clearly on their websites precisely what proportion of your airfare is accounted for by fuel duty: the percentage is gratifyingly shocking and educative to the consumer."
She must mean air passenger duty, since there is no fuel duty on fuel for planes.
Interestingly, my car fuel receipts always have the VAT itemised, but they don't show how much fuel duty is paid.
O/T: Alice Munro has won the Nobel Literature prize. I like her stories but I think the Nobel poo-bahs are wrong in saying that she's currently the best short story writer around. The best one, by far, is William Trevor - now in his 80's and still writing.
RT @Nobelprize_org: The Swedish Academy has not been able to get a hold of Alice Munro, left a phone message. #NobelPrize #Literature
I think the same happened with Doris Lessing a few years back.
I think Polly Toynbee first spotted the Miliband conundrum. Tricky one for UKIP -" vote Miliband get BREXIT.."....
I very much doubt that Miliband will make an unequivocal promise a referendum. And I also doubt that Europe will be a big issue at the general election so he will be under little pressure to do so.
O/T The Nova Scotia provincial elections earlier this week resulted in a landslide victory for the Liberals ( their first since 1999 ) . They won 33 of the 51 seats a gain of 22 . The Conservatives won 11 seats up 1 and the outgoing ruling NDP just 7 seats . Most cabinet ministers including Premier Darrell Dexter lost their seats . The NDP did finish narrowly 2nd in % votes though not in number of seats .
"Osborne reveals the true aim of Help to Buy: to inflate house prices "Hopefully we will get a little housing boom and everyone will be happy as property values go up," the Chancellor reportedly told the cabinet."
Shocking revelation, who on earth can believe that is the point of Help To Buy?
Brilliant, tim! You link to a New Statesman article, taking seriously a comment which in turn come from another article which clearly says it was a joke.
The airlines, caught in a similar dilemma, have taken to printing very clearly on their websites precisely what proportion of your airfare is accounted for by fuel duty: the percentage is gratifyingly shocking and educative to the consumer."
As noted by Oblitus she's wrong - there is NO tax on airline fuel duty (but there should be). She means air passenger duty. And this has resulted in politicians lowering the tax? Nope.
It's a very ineffective campaign, because the gap between the moment of travel and the time people think about politics is too large, and nobody is campaigning to reduce it anyway. I make about 20 flights a year and I do vaguely notice it, but it's not something which passengers debate on the plane, in my experience. If you're busy flying to India or whatever you're not really preoccupied with analysing the ticket price components.
Mr. T, careful. Keep making money like that and Red Ed will declare you a 'predator'.
Stop me when it gets annoying. At this precise moment I might be at my Most Obnoxious Ever, which is quite some feat, given my previous bouts of smugness.
Nah, good luck to you. At least you're producing something that will (hopefully) bring a little entertainment and joy to people. You've got a skill, you're using it well, and you're reaping the rewards.
Comments
A spy tells me that Spondon C is being dismantled as we speak - it closed in March 2012. Only 200-odd MW, but still useful. It was built in the early-mid 1990s.
As I recall, when built it had the capability of switching in the matter of seconds from gas to oil burning - if the gas supply was interrupted, it could switch over to oil firing without an interruption to supplies. I wonder if this is a common feature of gas power stations?
It should also be noted that even mothballed plants cost a fortune in maintenance, especially if it's seriously believed they'll be needed again in short order.
No, the full amount of money you have committed will be taken from your account and then you will be refunded any money left over. I could see you being limited to only £750 worth of stock, if the government get panicked about the rich doing well out of this offer.
Not sure about trading begin date
That's exactly why Ed Miliband's comments were so irresponsible. The electricity companies have no choice but to look extremely carefully at what governments may throw at them.
Keadby, gas 1.4GW, mothballed
Roosevote, gas, 0.4GW, mothballed
Barking B, gas, 0.5GW, mothballed
Teeside, gas, 1.8GW, mothballed
Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
Interesting fm Crick on Cameron milestone - 1,258 days in office Of the 23 people appointed to Cabinet 15 still there & likly 2015 Stable !
If you applied directly via the government website, you can't deal until Tuesday (the date of 'full listing'), or whenever you get confirmation of the allocation (which might be later, especially if you applied by post).
Edmund,
Those badgers are too clever for us by half. I think we have to implement the McArthur strategy and nuke them. Send hunters in with orders to shoot anything that looks like a badger, If they polish off a few foxes, dogs, green party supporters (Neil had better stay away) or Brian May, then it's a bonus. And to make sure, gas the setts.
Brock, this means you.
And thanks from me to Chuka. I was cautious about this privatisation until he convinced me; then I had a little gamble.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244580/qep_sep_13.pdf
Mine of data for those of you who want to read it.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/
It's also interesting to see the working lives of these stations - Keadby was built in 1996, so had only 16-17 years commissioned. Roosecote had a little over 20 years. Not a great amount of time to pay back your investment, when the previous generation of stations mostly had 30+ years of working life.
Having said that, there has always been reserve stations available at short order - Willington B was such at the end of its life. ISTR it was kept in working order, and able to be repowered within a few months.
"The energy companies are clearly tired of being cast as the demonic enemies of struggling Britain. First Ed Miliband threatens to freeze their prices (which is to say, their profits). Then David Cameron – recognising a no-win trap when he sees one – agrees that the Opposition has struck a nerve with its accusations of profiteering in the energy market.
So today, the companies which have been cast as undisputed forces of darkness – who are, oddly, the dispensers of light and heat – have begun to fight back. One of the chief reasons for their price increases, they say, is that successive governments have forced them to become tax collectors: green taxes and the cost of subsidising new eco-friendly forms of energy production have all been loaded on to energy bills instead of being paid directly to HM Treasury. So instead of the sitting government getting the ignominy for higher taxes, the energy companies must take the blame – and then be chastised by politicians of all parties for their pains. The airlines, caught in a similar dilemma, have taken to printing very clearly on their websites precisely what proportion of your airfare is accounted for by fuel duty: the percentage is gratifyingly shocking and educative to the consumer."
And you're an exporter - re-balancing the economy single handedly.
I believe the capacity payments system includes a sum for mothballed plant - presumably offering just enough cash to keep stuff at cash zero.
1997: 14
2010: 6
Swino, the feral pig who drank 18 cans of beer and then fought a cow, has died in a car accident:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/07/rip-swino-pig-that-drank-18-cans-of-beer-and-bravely-fought-a-cow-dies-4137543/
Interestingly, my car fuel receipts always have the VAT itemised, but they don't show how much fuel duty is paid.
The Nova Scotia provincial elections earlier this week resulted in a landslide victory for the Liberals ( their first since 1999 ) . They won 33 of the 51 seats a gain of 22 . The Conservatives won 11 seats up 1 and the outgoing ruling NDP just 7 seats . Most cabinet ministers including Premier Darrell Dexter lost their seats . The NDP did finish narrowly 2nd in % votes though not in number of seats .
Table 5.1.2
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/244580/qep_sep_13.pdf
Diesel Duty and VAT c. 84p (58% of price) of 139p
It's a very ineffective campaign, because the gap between the moment of travel and the time people think about politics is too large, and nobody is campaigning to reduce it anyway. I make about 20 flights a year and I do vaguely notice it, but it's not something which passengers debate on the plane, in my experience. If you're busy flying to India or whatever you're not really preoccupied with analysing the ticket price components.
I have my leccy provided to me by iSupplyEnergy though.
How many of these other companies are there ?