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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » I’m starting to think that UKIP could surprise us at GE2015

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  • On thread - When does a journo standing for a party need to make any ongoing interest disclosures to readership - even if its only the express.

    Patrick O'Flynn‏@oflynnexpress2m
    UKIP back up to 13% unprompted on YouGov. Means 20%+ on a fairer measure.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Somebody should tell the Govt that sending ministers out to tell customers to switch from the first energy company to put up prices makes them look even more out if touch, everyone in the country knows the others are following

    Indeed. But there are some good fixed rates out there and no reason not to snap them up now before the others do raise their prices. Only a fool would move to a variable rate.

    Surely the fixed rates reflect swap/futures prices, so essentially the median market expectation of the underlying variable price for the fixed period, distorted by any asymmetric demand for hedging - which means anyone who thinks the market is underpricing future rises would go fixed, and vice versa. If the power companies are offering fixed deals at a smaller margin vs market prices than variable deals it would be interesting to know - is there any evidence that there is value in fixes because of that?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.

    The current confusion of the Tory strategy seems to be the desire to portray him as a weak socialist: "Fear Ed! He wants to make radical left wing reforms you won't like but he's too weak to do what he wants! He wants to interfere in the free functioning of the energy market which will be a disaster, but he'll fail at it and anyway prices are a bit too high and we'll interfere too, just a bit less and in a way which won't scare the markets as much as weak yet socialist Ed!"

    They probably need to work out which line to run with sometime soon.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.

    If you aren't a core Labour voter - I'd say its a toss up between the two. If you aren't old enough to remember socialism in action, then weak will do instead. If you're over 40 - its a double whammy.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited October 2013
    OGH - I refer you to the latest piece from Saint Hodges of Kensingontutchelsea.

    They acknowledged that Ed Miliband’s announcement he would freeze energy prices had resonated with the public. Yet they also believed Labour had made a crucial strategic error.

    “The idea that Labour is marching off to the left has been embedded,” a Tory strategist told me. “Before [the conference season], our dilemma was whether we painted Ed Miliband as a joke or as someone who was dangerous. We’re now confident we can do both.”

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/holding-centre

    remember pb's new rule - "hodges is always wrong unless tim retweets something where he is right."
  • tim said:

    Now what happened to that plan in the Coalition Agreement to fund open primaries in the 200 safest seats?

    Open primaries in ultra-safe Tonbridge & Malling and Wealden, and (perhaps more interestingly) in Bath.

    Not funded by the taxpayer, thank goodness.
  • On thread - When does a journo standing for a party need to make any ongoing interest disclosures to readership - even if its only the express.

    Patrick O'Flynn‏@oflynnexpress2m
    UKIP back up to 13% unprompted on YouGov. Means 20%+ on a fairer measure.

    He already has - often.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Somebody should tell the Govt that sending ministers out to tell customers to switch from the first energy company to put up prices makes them look even more out if touch, everyone in the country knows the others are following

    Indeed. But there are some good fixed rates out there and no reason not to snap them up now before the others do raise their prices. Only a fool would move to a variable rate.

    Is Dave not abolishing those and putting everyone on "the lowest tariff"
    I thought I'd read that energy companies were dumping a load of tariffs that pensioners prefer in preparation for the coming of Daves heroic irrelevance?


    You should probably just read the proposals rather than make up what you think they say

    "Under government plans, it seems as though consumers will be given the chance to choose from one of four types of tariff.

    These must include a variable rate deal and one with a fixed rate over a certain period of time. Others may include a green tariff or similar, whatever the supplier thinks is competitive.

    Suppliers must offer just one price for each of the four tariffs. Customers will be put on the cheapest price of the tariff of their choice."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15304765
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    If UKIP wanted to win a Westminster seat shouldnt Farage have picked their best target and started working it already?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983



    He already has - often.

    Yes, but they're Express readers, they'll have forgotten about it 10 minutes later.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,477
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Somebody should tell the Govt that sending ministers out to tell customers to switch from the first energy company to put up prices makes them look even more out if touch, everyone in the country knows the others are following

    Indeed. But there are some good fixed rates out there and no reason not to snap them up now before the others do raise their prices. Only a fool would move to a variable rate.

    Is Dave not abolishing those and putting everyone on "the lowest tariff"
    I thought I'd read that energy companies were dumping a load of tariffs that pensioners prefer in preparation for the coming of Daves heroic irrelevance?

    No - lots of fixed rate tariffs are available, depending on how long you want to fix for. There is a price you pay obviously for fixing for a long time but it (a) gives you certainty - which helps with budgeting; (b) protects you from price rises in the interim - I take the view that prices are more likely to rise than not; and (c) allows you to take your energy savings methods in the meanwhile.

    No reason why pensioners or others can't take advantage of these deals and no reason why politicians can't advise people to look at comparison sites to see whether they can get a better deal than what they're on now.

    None of this affects the underlying point which is that neither this government nor previous ones have done anything like enough to ensure that there is a sufficient and secure energy supply to this country. At some point this will bite us all big-time.



  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    edited October 2013

    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.

    He is a ruthless opportunist. Great for opposition tbh, particularly mid-term. The big question is does it stand up at the next GE when people are doing a sober analysis of who is to form the next Gov't.

    My assessment is that Labour Minority and Labour Majority are a coin flip.
  • Did Brian arrive in a a bus, accompanied by 2 badgers carrying some goalposts and then just park up in front of them?


    Ross Hawkins‏@rosschawkins2m
    Leveson: not trying to be difficult, not trying to avoid what are understandable questions


    Paul Waugh‏@paulwaugh2m
    Leveson:"I've a profound respect for Parliament + of course I wd never say No [to giving evidence]" Then reads letter on why not answerng Qs

  • tim said:

    So what happened to the coalition pledge (on postal primaries wasn't it, not just an open meeting)

    Seems to have been quietly shelved. Good thing too - firstly why on earth should the taxpayer subsidise the selection procedure for political parties?, and secondly we need a lot more experience of open primaries before concluding they are necessarily a Good Thing. They might be, but they may also have very significant snags, such as favouring celebrities who turn out to be rather vacuous, and devaluing the role of party members.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.

    He is a ruthless opportunist. Great for opposition tbh.
    Very true - that as well. Not so great for big bruv mind you.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Did Brian arrive in a a bus, accompanied by 2 badgers carrying some goalposts and then just park up in front of them?


    Ross Hawkins‏@rosschawkins2m
    Leveson: not trying to be difficult, not trying to avoid what are understandable questions


    Paul Waugh‏@paulwaugh2m
    Leveson:"I've a profound respect for Parliament + of course I wd never say No [to giving evidence]" Then reads letter on why not answerng Qs

    I honestly have no idea what Leveson is saying and I can see why John Whittingdale is so exasperated at his pinhead dancing. It's like watching Sir Humphrey testify.
  • Guido now linking to Sean T's article in the Seen Elsewhere first line.

    That should be good for a few more hits then.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Plato said:


    I honestly have no idea what Leveson is saying

    It seems pretty clear to me, in fact it's exactly what he said he would say before he even got there.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers
    'This is your problem, not mine,' Leveson declares. MPs look ready to smash their heads into desks #leveson
  • Good afternoon colleagues and PB lefties, I gather another of my tips that Sir Ming would hang up his running shoes has been confirmed. Should be an interesting opportunity for the Tory candidate at #GE2015 who according to Baxter is presently predicted to win the seat.

    Wonder how many more of the sitting Scottish MPs I have indicated to some PBers are likely to retire will do so.

    The challengers to the LD's in 2015 will be SNP not the Conservatives .
    2012 council results for the wards making up the parliamentary seat were roughly
    LD 8,300 SNP 6,200 Con 4,200 Lab 3,500 plus an Independent in Cupar who took 1,556 votes . His 2nd preferences split roughly 2:1:1:1 in favour of the LD's
    Thank you Mark. And I note that Rod Crosby concurs with you.

    The reason that the SNP are more realistic challengers to the Lib Dems in Fife North East is purely down to practicalities: the SNP are total experts at the "ground war" stuff. We have the money, we have the expertise, we have the large, motivated membership numbers, we have the databases, and we have the solid base of electoral support. The Tories have only got one or two of those things. The poor old Lib Dems have perhaps one of them.

    And yet the poor old Lib Dems out polled SNP in the 2012 elections and substantially out polled the Conservatives .
    What is your prediction for the Dunfermline by-election in a fortnight Mark? Will the Lib Dems manage to hold on to 3rd place? It would be pretty astonishing if you did not, considering that the Tories were 12.6 points behind you last time out.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,477
    tim said:

    @Cyclefree

    But how will Camerons plan impact on this choice, can't say I understand it really.
    Although unlike him I understand his marriage tax plan

    No idea; don't care; have fixed my gas/electricity prices for the next 4 years. Now off to put on a jumper and switch off some lights.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    Absolutely inspired Matt today combining two stories: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/

    The badgers moving the goalposts is the sort of comment that can end a career. Really, really stupid.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I'm pretty sure the answer's not zero. Carrington's under construction atm. There's also (from memory) one at Pembroke, and Staythorpe? opened in late 2010, so that's Labour's responsibility. Sadly, I don't maintain a list, and cannot find one...
    http://www.carringtonpower.co.uk/

    The problem is that the market economic of new power stations is queered by the system of levies. If the companies do not think that the plants will be economic long-term, they won't get built.

    It doesn't matter if they're owned by UK companies or foreign companies: if the bottom line isn't there, they won't invest. If it is, they will.

    ISTR that RCS suggested he might write a small primer about the way the energy industry works. I think that such a document might be a brilliant aid for debate.

    As for the government's aims:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/28/gas-fired-power-stations-uk

    Josias, thanks very much for your correction! Staythorpe generates 1.65 GW, Pembroke 2 GW and Carrington 0.88 GW, for a total of 4.53 GW of generating capacity.

    Interestingly [according to wikipedia], Staythorpe was given planning permission in 1993(!), but construction restarted in 2008 after being halted. Construction of Pembroke also began in 2008, after a 2007 proposal. Carrington was given planning permission in 2008. These are all just before Miliband became secretary of state at DECC at the end of 2008.

    From the public debate on this issue I had gained the erroneous impression that no new power stations had been built in the last 5-10 years.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.


    Seems to me the Tories are passively aggresively channeling The Mail by referring to Das Kapital, Communism, left wing etc recently

    Heaven forbid the Labour Party leader be left wing!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Adam gets the thumbs down

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    That 95% + of 2010 Tories prepared to reject Afriyie amendment shows that there’s a new, more disciplined Tory mood bit.ly/19BCkmH

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    Humiliation for @AdamAfriyie as 140+ of the 147 new intake Tory MPs write to him telling him to drop his EU amendment bit.ly/19BCkmH
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Wonderful!

    Alastair Stewart @alstewitn
    @BBCNormanS @CarolineFlintMP Arthur Scargill always had a flat-cap and a can of Faberge hair-spray in his brief-case: 'All circs' covered'.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Winds of change against ridiculous regulations hopefully

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/09/italian-football-fans-abuse-milan-napoli
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Good afternoon colleagues and PB lefties, I gather another of my tips that Sir Ming would hang up his running shoes has been confirmed. Should be an interesting opportunity for the Tory candidate at #GE2015 who according to Baxter is presently predicted to win the seat.

    Wonder how many more of the sitting Scottish MPs I have indicated to some PBers are likely to retire will do so.

    The challengers to the LD's in 2015 will be SNP not the Conservatives .
    2012 council results for the wards making up the parliamentary seat were roughly
    LD 8,300 SNP 6,200 Con 4,200 Lab 3,500 plus an Independent in Cupar who took 1,556 votes . His 2nd preferences split roughly 2:1:1:1 in favour of the LD's
    Thank you Mark. And I note that Rod Crosby concurs with you.

    The reason that the SNP are more realistic challengers to the Lib Dems in Fife North East is purely down to practicalities: the SNP are total experts at the "ground war" stuff. We have the money, we have the expertise, we have the large, motivated membership numbers, we have the databases, and we have the solid base of electoral support. The Tories have only got one or two of those things. The poor old Lib Dems have perhaps one of them.

    And yet the poor old Lib Dems out polled SNP in the 2012 elections and substantially out polled the Conservatives .
    What is your prediction for the Dunfermline by-election in a fortnight Mark? Will the Lib Dems manage to hold on to 3rd place? It would be pretty astonishing if you did not, considering that the Tories were 12.6 points behind you last time out.
    Not looked too deeply into Dunfermline yet but I would expect easy Labour gain and LD's 3rd .
    Two Scottish by elections today , I expect LD gain in Borders and possibly narrow Labour gain from SNP in Glasgow .
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    So far as UKIP are concerned for the understated reasons given by SeanT last night I still think that the majority of their current support will hold their noses and vote tory where it matters. The more left Ed goes the easier that sell will be and so far at least he is showing remarkably little interest in the middle ground.

    The Labour party is a long, long way from being fit to run this country and will remain so until the detrius of the Brown generation leave the stage. At the moment, especially following the reshuffle, they are in complete control of the party.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    After watching this select committee - if Dave were to burn a copy of this goons report outside no 10 and wash his hands of the whole thing he'd go up in my estimation.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    rcs1000 said:
    ...but still look like they'd probably hold the House even if an election was held now, thanks to the magic of FPTP.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    After watching this select committee - if Dave were to burn a copy of this goons report outside no 10 and wash his hands of the whole thing he'd go up in my estimation.

    This had me LOL - Leveson is filibustering in an epic way.

    Niall Paterson @skynewsniall
    Leveson: I am concerned that this inquiry may have an effect on judges being asked to do similar in future [massively paraphrased]
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    Adam gets the thumbs down

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    That 95% + of 2010 Tories prepared to reject Afriyie amendment shows that there’s a new, more disciplined Tory mood bit.ly/19BCkmH

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    Humiliation for @AdamAfriyie as 140+ of the 147 new intake Tory MPs write to him telling him to drop his EU amendment bit.ly/19BCkmH

    Any chance this prima donna might defect to Ukip ?

    He's finished in the blues surely ?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    Plato said:

    Adam gets the thumbs down

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    That 95% + of 2010 Tories prepared to reject Afriyie amendment shows that there’s a new, more disciplined Tory mood bit.ly/19BCkmH

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    Humiliation for @AdamAfriyie as 140+ of the 147 new intake Tory MPs write to him telling him to drop his EU amendment bit.ly/19BCkmH

    Any chance this prima donna might defect to Ukip ?

    He's finished in the blues surely ?
    Isn't he MP for Windsor? He's got no chance there and I suspect he's a grandstander with no real gumption.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847



    Josias, thanks very much for your correction! Staythorpe generates 1.65 GW, Pembroke 2 GW and Carrington 0.88 GW, for a total of 4.53 GW of generating capacity.

    Interestingly [according to wikipedia], Staythorpe was given planning permission in 1993(!), but construction restarted in 2008 after being halted. Construction of Pembroke also began in 2008, after a 2007 proposal. Carrington was given planning permission in 2008. These are all just before Miliband became secretary of state at DECC at the end of 2008.

    From the public debate on this issue I had gained the erroneous impression that no new power stations had been built in the last 5-10 years.

    I'm not sure where you got that impression from - there's always new capacity being built or replaced. it's the generative capacity that matters.

    The 'crimes' I would put against Ed during his time at DECC in this respect are:
    1) Agreeing to the European Large Combustion Plant Directive (1), and therefore forcing a fair few large-capacity coal plants to shut down before their natural age (it was hours-limited).
    2) Not going for a near one-on-one wrt replacement baseload capacity; i.e. building new plants to come on stream at the time of the closures.
    3) Forcing new coal plants to have CCS, which is a largely untried capability at scale, and therefore stopping all new coal plants from being built.
    4) Not moving forward with nuclear.
    5) Allowing the perversity of large-scale biomass.

    For the coalition, it was to late to reverse 1. They've been looking at nuclear for 2), but should really have gone for immediate CCGT in 2010, to be coming on stream in the next couple of years. I don't think they're reverse 3). They're trying to get 4) going. They're reversing 5), although there are great difficulties in doing this.

    Too slow by the coalition, but at least they're on the right course.

    (1): http://www.defra.gov.uk/industrial-emissions/eu-international/lcpd/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Plato said:

    TGOHF said:

    Plato said:

    Adam gets the thumbs down

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    That 95% + of 2010 Tories prepared to reject Afriyie amendment shows that there’s a new, more disciplined Tory mood bit.ly/19BCkmH

    James Forsyth @JGForsyth
    Humiliation for @AdamAfriyie as 140+ of the 147 new intake Tory MPs write to him telling him to drop his EU amendment bit.ly/19BCkmH

    Any chance this prima donna might defect to Ukip ?

    He's finished in the blues surely ?
    Isn't he MP for Windsor? He's got no chance there and I suspect he's a grandstander with no real gumption.
    He could sit as a Ukip MP for 18 months..
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Miss Plato and Mr. Flashman (deceased), nice to see some sense amongst the blues on Europe.

    Afriye was obviously just trying to make himself look good, and has managed to shoot himself in the foot.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2013
    Quite.

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers
    .@Conor_BurnsMP tells Leveson: 'You say this is our problem. It's a problem created by your report at the invitation of the Prime Minister'

    Leveson is making a right nit of himself - he refuses to answer any of the questions and is just wibbling endlessly.

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
    Ah Brian's back on the Alphabetti Spaghetti: "I refer you to J2..."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Miss Plato, it sounds like Leveson is the arse many thought he was.

    "I don't need a lecture about freedom of speech, Mr. Gove, I really don't," he said, interrupting someone trying to get his point across.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Resilient UKIP on around 12% eh?

    In 1983, the 'resilient' SDP with 26% of the vote won no seats, other than

    a) 4 defectors from Labour who held on
    b) 1 by-election victor who held on
    c) 1 former Liberal seat where they were oddly given a free run

    We note that none of the above will apply to UKIP in 2015. Their best chance remains Eastleigh, and that's a long shot. Hard to see where any other gains may materialize from, on a low, evenly-spread share of the vote.

    For all the ramping of Farage, UKIP's sole national figure, he's already shown he's an electoral dud. 5% in 2005, third place against Buckingham's open goal in 2010...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim wants to tell us how to think, how to vote and now what to post.

    Very Marxist of him...

  • Bloody foreigners on benefits again.....

    http://www.thelocal.de/national/20131009-52315.html
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    DavidL said:

    Absolutely inspired Matt today combining two stories: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/

    The badgers moving the goalposts is the sort of comment that can end a career. Really, really stupid.

    You have to feel sorry for the guy - in context it was funny and accurate.

    It's a shame politicians who speak like this get jumped on the way they do. The result is that they all end up talking in the same bland, slightly weird politician language.
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    DavidL said:

    So far as UKIP are concerned for the understated reasons given by SeanT last night I still think that the majority of their current support will hold their noses and vote tory where it matters. The more left Ed goes the easier that sell will be and so far at least he is showing remarkably little interest in the middle ground.

    The Labour party is a long, long way from being fit to run this country and will remain so until the detrius of the Brown generation leave the stage. At the moment, especially following the reshuffle, they are in complete control of the party.

    Ed - left? I am not so sure. Authoritarian maybe. Interventionist in as way not seen since 1979 almost certainly. However I agree that when push comes to shove in 2015 a large number of UKIP voters will return to the Tories if only because this has not been a bad government in the sense that it deserves to be voted out unlike the previous one. I think a lot of credit for that lies with the Lib Dems who by and large have been sober and sensible influence.in contrast to some of the raving behaviour from the Tory parliamentary right
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim wants to tell us how to think, how to vote and now what to post.

    Very Marxist of him...

    Dave set up Leveson and promised to implement the report, it's Daves responsibility
    Link to where he promised to implement the report ?


  • [Miliband] is a ruthless opportunist. Great for opposition tbh, particularly mid-term. The big question is does it stand up at the next GE when people are doing a sober analysis of who is to form the next Gov't..
    Agree 100%. Labour seem to be building up a solid history of opportunistic policies and announcements that look good but then unravel under closer investigation.

    Thinking back to last year's Budget, the Conservatives are perhaps going for the opposite approach of doing things that look bad but actually make plenty of sense. Like the pasty tax - presentationally awful but actually making the VAT regulations consistent across all kinds of cooked take-away food. You could argue that the current government is showing admirable faith in the UK electorate...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    DavidL said:

    Absolutely inspired Matt today combining two stories: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/

    The badgers moving the goalposts is the sort of comment that can end a career. Really, really stupid.

    You have to feel sorry for the guy - in context it was funny and accurate.

    It's a shame politicians who speak like this get jumped on the way they do. The result is that they all end up talking in the same bland, slightly weird politician language.
    Agree - the trouble is this is obituary material - both for a current career, and when, one hopes many years hence, he makes a final appearance in the Times......

  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    DavidL said:

    Absolutely inspired Matt today combining two stories: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/

    The badgers moving the goalposts is the sort of comment that can end a career. Really, really stupid.

    You have to feel sorry for the guy - in context it was funny and accurate.

    It's a shame politicians who speak like this get jumped on the way they do. The result is that they all end up talking in the same bland, slightly weird politician language.
    I think, as long as they acknowledge it when they say something amusingly stupid and have a laugh then this kind of comment is regarded with more affection than condemnation. Something like "actually, that's rather a ridiculous image, but you get the point..." before carrying on. Think how Boris would deal with it.

    The problem here is that the point he was making is truly moronic. Effectively he was held to account against the success criteria he had previously set and then argued that he couldn't be held to account because of the limitations of working with unpredictable wild animals. If you can't construct goalposts that your trial subjects can't move, then what possible sense is there in implementing a trial?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    After watching this select committee - if Dave were to burn a copy of this goons report outside no 10 and wash his hands of the whole thing he'd go up in my estimation.

    Dave hung himself on this hook
    Dave didn't agree to implement it without having read it.......

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    This is from the Cameron statement from November 2012 in response to Leveson

    "...While no one wants to see full statutory regulation, let me stress: the status quo is not an option. Be in no doubt – we should be determined to see Lord Justice Leveson’s principles implemented.

    Mr Speaker, there is much that we in this country can be proud of: the oldest democracy in the world; the freedom of speech; a free press; frank and healthy public debate.

    But this Report lays bare that the system of press regulation we have is badly broken – and has let down victims badly. Our responsibility is to fix this.

    The task for us now is to build this new system of press regulation that supports our great traditions of investigative journalism and of free speech but that protects the rights of the vulnerable and the innocent and commands the confidence of the whole country...


    http://goo.gl/YX9Pg4
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2013
    I've yet to see any journalists impressed by Leveson's response so far - and I follow maybe 100 of them.

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
    Tracey Crouch bang on. Leveson inquiry not like a court case of X v Y, so why didn't be take Qs on his report? Qs which he is taking tday..

    Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
    Leveson has been totally unaccountable from the start, when he flatly refused to take questions from the press. He believes himself above it

    Charlie Beckett @CharlieBeckett
    Is it true that all judges don't comment on their public inquiries - didn't Blom Cooper comment on Beckford for eg? #Leveson
  • Is it worse for Ed to be described as a "soclialist" or as "weak"?

    The latter hasn't been heard recently yet formed almost the enitre CON strategy up 17 days ago.

    It's worse to be described as weak. "Socialism" has lost much of its potency amongst the relatively apolitical mainstream. It no doubt offends a good 30-40% of the electorate, but largely within a group that are very unlikely to vote Labour anyway. However, "weak" strikes at the heart of electability.

    The Conservatives have got themselves in a terrible tangle over this. It was an obvious error to try to portray the energy freeze policy as Marxist. Don't get me wrong, it is a bad idea, with very serious consequences that Labour seem incapable of understanding, but the average man on the street simply will not agree that energy companies having to hold prices for a relatively short period will result in the sky falling in.

    The Conservative response to Miliband should focus on his character. It is still true that he is weak - certainly the public believe that he is - and the Conservatives have plenty of examples they can cite of Miliband failing to take responsibility for tough decisions (i.e. opposition to welfare cuts). There is an easy "he says he understands the need for cuts, but can't ever bring himself to do it" narrative. A kind of "He's a nice chap, but...." attack. The longer-term theme the Tories need to build is that Miliband is a man who just does not think about the longer term consequences of his actions. I believe Miliband to be unfit for the office of Prime Minister, and I know many long-standing political observers of all colours agree. I have seen evidence of that on a number of occasions, from his behaviour over certain media indiscretions (I think I got away with it!), to the Syria vote, to his casual introduction of price fixing, to his inability to support welfare cuts in almost any circumstance. His personal approval levels are astonishingly low, bearing in mind Labour's quite comfortable polling lead, which suggests the public at very least harbour serious reservations. Of course the Conservatives should focus on that.

    They should also not neglect the shadow cabinet. I actually have some sympathy for Miliband in this respect because I think he is poorly served by most of his shadow cabinet colleagues. Amongst the "senior" positions only Balls and Umunna seem prepared to go out to bat with any vigour.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366

    Edmund,

    It is a pity. Animals showing adaptive behaviour - not unexpected.

    But don't get cocky, badgers, you can run but you can't hide (not forever, anyway).
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Politicians wanting 'regulate' the press, protect the weak. How does it tie in with freedom of expression? Something must be done...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    ARGH

    James Chapman (Mail) @jameschappers
    'I don't know how many libel actions the local press has to face,' says Leveson innocently. Why on earth not?

    Fraser Nelson @FraserNelson
    Leveson now showing ignorance of the press which underlines his report. Why don't we now have an inquiry into lawyers, chaired by a butcher?

    RT @ShippersUnbound: Leveson casually dismissing the concerns of the regional press like a man who never reads a paper
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. Flockers, I quite agree.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    CD13 said:


    Edmund,

    It is a pity. Animals showing adaptive behaviour - not unexpected.

    But don't get cocky, badgers, you can run but you can't hide (not forever, anyway).

    That's what they said about Al Qaeda in Mesopotania.

    If this one comes down to humans vs badgers the badgers will win. You kill one lot of badgers and the neighbouring badgers take over their territory, so you end up with more, cleverer badgers.

    The solution, which amazingly the British have still failed to cotton onto despite decades spent administering an empire, is divide-and-rule: Innoculate some of the badgers, then arm and train them to kill the uninnoculated badgers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting stats on civil partnership:

    "The Government Equalities Office originally estimated that there would be between 11,000 and 22,000 civil partners in Great Britain by 2010, but there were actually over 79,000 people in civil partnerships at the start of 2010."

    http://www.statisticsviews.com/details/news/5352551/How-will-marriages-to-same-sex-couples-change-statistics.html
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. T, bah. If/when I'm in such a financially delightful position I won't feel guilty for a bloody minute, or remotely worried. You wrote a book good enough to make you bundles of cash. "Huzzah!" is what you ought to be saying.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    CD13 said:


    Edmund,

    It is a pity. Animals showing adaptive behaviour - not unexpected.

    But don't get cocky, badgers, you can run but you can't hide (not forever, anyway).

    That's what they said about Al Qaeda in Mesopotania.

    If this one comes down to humans vs badgers the badgers will win. You kill one lot of badgers and the neighbouring badgers take over their territory, so you end up with more, cleverer badgers.

    The solution, which amazingly the British have still failed to cotton onto despite decades spent administering an empire, is divide-and-rule: Innoculate some of the badgers, then arm and train them to kill the uninnoculated badgers.
    Shaun Freke @Connorfield56
    Glos cull area, Tibberton, cull protestors guard 'Badger sett' for three weeks before realising it was a rabbit warren #countrywise

    They all look the same to me

    Here are some badger cubs

    http://t.co/I0eeZ0drXc
  • Sean

    I have a suggestion for your next blog combining your two most successful blog entry topics.

    "Are Labour supporters mentally ill?"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Tracey Crouch is superb at this hearing #Leveson - I hope she gets promoted in the future. Forensic and cool headed stuff, never heard of her before.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,260
    edited October 2013
    On topic.

    UKIP haven't gone away you know.

    The fun will begin if they finish first or ahead of the Tories in next year's euros
  • tim said:

    @Flockers.

    And to answer Mikes point further, branding Ed a Socialist on issues like this is inherently counterproductive because all the polling done on privatised utilities, renationalisation etc puts the public way to the left of Miliband.

    You're right, but I am not terribly sure of the value of that kind of polling. On those types of questions people tend to take the opportunity to bemoan the status quo, whatever it may be. Put it another way, I would not be betting too heavily on any political party that stood on a platform of wholescale renationalisations.

    But, as an aside, if the Royal Mail share price rises by even as little as 10% (or for that matter declines by as much as 10%) I expect the political reaction to be brutal.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    Interesting stats on civil partnership:

    "The Government Equalities Office originally estimated that there would be between 11,000 and 22,000 civil partners in Great Britain by 2010, but there were actually over 79,000 people in civil partnerships at the start of 2010."

    http://www.statisticsviews.com/details/news/5352551/How-will-marriages-to-same-sex-couples-change-statistics.html

    Thats because they underestimated the number of gay Eastern European immigrants.
    They were probably fleeing the Latvian homophobes.....

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Tim Shipman: @ShippersUnbound Tory MPs told me last night that Adam Afriyie thinks his referendum gambit has done his longterm prospects good. Wonder if he still does?

    @alexmassie
    @ShippersUnbound Has anyone not named Adam Afriyie ever thought Adam Afriyie had any long-term prospects at all?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    edited October 2013
    One of the highlights of Leveson's career as a prosecutor.

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/comedy/dodds-bolton-bonus-981443

    "...the court case in 1989 when he was charged with tax evasion.

    Ken kept the court house in stitches during the three month trial when he admitted that, at that time, he kept most of his money in suitcases in the attic.

    When the judge asked him what £100,000 in a suitcase felt like, Ken responded with "the notes are very light m'Lord!"

    The case was literally laughed out of court and he was acquitted."
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    John Rentoul replies to OGH on twitter:

    @MSmithsonPB "starting to think that UKIP could surprise us at GE2015" http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2013/10/10/im-starting-to-think-that-ukip-could-surprise-us-at-ge2015/ … Surprise will be how low UKIP's share is
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    On the energy thing, everyone seems to talk about the energy companies not building much capacity as if it's a market failure, but are we sure it's not just the free market allocating capital correctly? Solar got crazy cheap over a short period of time, wind hasn't yet but the Germans are on the case. The needs of a grid with a lot of renewables are going to look very different from the needs of a grid without, but we don't know for sure how practical large-scale renewables are going to be in non-sunny countries, and wind might still turn out to suck for a while.

    Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:


    I think Osborne would be delighted with 10%, I sense they are worried they got this one seriously wrong.

    As badly wrong as Labour was over QinetiQ? At least it wont be a small handful of insiders who pocket most of the profit in this case.
  • tim said:

    @Flockers

    "But, as an aside, if the Royal Mail share price rises by even as little as 10% (or for that matter declines by as much as 10%) I expect the political reaction to be brutal."

    I think Osborne would be delighted with 10%, I sense they are worried they got this one seriously wrong.

    I am not sure they sense it, so much as have known that it is coming for a long time and have braced themselves for it. The Government are in an unenviable position because they only get one opportunity to price the shares and then there is a protracted period in which the market can prove them wrong (or just move against them for unrelated reasons, like the US sorting out the budget impasse and continuing the flow of easy money). But if there is a very big first day/week spike, as unfulfilled demand suggests is possible, fairly or not the politicians will have much to answer for.

    I suspect even Vince Cable would smile ruefully if after all this speculation it was a privatisation that destroyed his reputation and forced his resignation - not saying it is at all likely, but its somewhere on the spectrum of possibilities. Of course, its quite possible that even if there is a price spike something else will keep it off the news, or the media will be obsessing about Leveson or whetever and it will just pass us by. Who'd be a punter...
  • Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?

    That's what they are doing, and that is precisely the problem, giving that it takes 3-5 years, maybe more, to add new capacity once we find there isn't enough. The investors need some certainty, they were already showing doubts, and Ed has made it even worse.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Neil said:

    tim said:


    I think Osborne would be delighted with 10%, I sense they are worried they got this one seriously wrong.

    As badly wrong as Labour was over QinetiQ? At least it wont be a small handful of insiders who pocket most of the profit in this case.
    "In November 2007, the NAO reported that taxpayers could have gained "tens of millions" more and was critical of the incentive scheme given to Qinetiq managers, the 10 most senior of whom gained £107.5m on a total investment of £540,000 in the company's shares. The return of 19,990% on their investment was described as "excessive" by the NAO. The role of Qinetiq's management in negotiating terms with the Carlyle Group, while the private equity company was bidding for the business, was also criticised by the NAO. Carlyle bought a third of the business for £42m which grew in value to £372m in less than four years."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinetiq
  • I believe I posted that Adam A was a bell end at the weekend.

    I was wrong, he has managed to bring unheard of unity and togetherness amongst the Tory MPs and I commend him for putting party ahead of his own career....

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/10/2010-intake-of-tory-mps-write-to-adam-afriyie-telling-him-to-drop-his-amendment/
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    "The return of 19,990% on their investment was described as "excessive" by the NAO."

    You got to love the understatement.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    The under-pricing criticism was used time and time again re privatisation. If Cable didn't think the price was realistic he could have spoken out earlier. Trite politicians looking for lame excuses.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Neil said:

    "The return of 19,990% on their investment was described as "excessive" by the NAO."

    You got to love the understatement.


    They must have been gutted they never got to 20,000% return.

  • I'm still chortling away at tim's concerns when Osborne sold a few Lloyds shares in a block trade... the daily perhaps hourly commentary on the price and news relevant to the selling price was ignorance of the highest order and a rare weak spot in his knowledge portfolio!

    More of the same soon expected.

    BTW Vince is an utter bell end if as Peston reports he's limited allocations to we punters to those who applied for less than £10k with nothing for those who wanted more...

    He'll have lost my vote forever if so... take that Cable, in Bercow land that could ruin you!

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    JonathanD said:

    Neil said:

    "The return of 19,990% on their investment was described as "excessive" by the NAO."

    You got to love the understatement.


    They must have been gutted they never got to 20,000% return.

    That would have been greedy.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,829

    On the energy thing, everyone seems to talk about the energy companies not building much capacity as if it's a market failure, but are we sure it's not just the free market allocating capital correctly? Solar got crazy cheap over a short period of time, wind hasn't yet but the Germans are on the case. The needs of a grid with a lot of renewables are going to look very different from the needs of a grid without, but we don't know for sure how practical large-scale renewables are going to be in non-sunny countries, and wind might still turn out to suck for a while.

    Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?

    Wind is unlikely to get much cheaper, because the costs - i.e. concrete, land, interconnection and people - don't scale well. In the case of solar, there are some innovations in the works that could see prices halve or third from here. (And, in fact, prices have fallen from $4/watt to $0.70 - or more than 80% - over the past five years.) In fact, one of the reasons that utilities are so reluctant to invest in new capacity is the risk that demand that goes to dispatchable power generation could be hammered by this. (In Germany, the majority of new solar installations are being done without subsidy, because it's cheaper to generate your own electricity now, than to buy it off the grid.)

    As an aside re blackouts, it is worth remembering that almost all the gas plant that has been taken off-line in the last two years has been mothballed rather than dismantled. All these plants could be brought back on-line within two years if wholesale power prices (and the gas spread) were to improve.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Forsyth on the reshuffles:

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9049821/what-the-reshuffles-showed-usnone-of-these-parties-are-ready-to-win/

    And Tory hopes of victory:

    "It is currently hard to see how either of the main parties can secure 40 per cent or more of the vote at the next general election. Indeed, there are senior figures inside Downing Street who believe that the Tories can’t realistically hope to garner this share of the vote in 2015. Instead, they argue that their most likely route to victory is to poll around 38 per cent themselves, keep the Labour vote down to 31 per cent or so and then hope that their targeting of marginal seats delivers a majority for them."

    A way to go then.......
  • It's very difficult to price a privatisation, I'd have thought, as the one thing you do not want is for it to flop or for there to be accusations that those who have bought small stakes have been fleeced. The government probably got it a touch wrong, but it's hardly a catastrophe. And the government will retain a minimum 30% ownership, so if the share price remains high there is a chance to cash in later on. Labour will obviously make its point, but in terms of great government sins it is way down the list and will very soon be forgotten.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    On the energy thing, everyone seems to talk about the energy companies not building much capacity as if it's a market failure, but are we sure it's not just the free market allocating capital correctly? Solar got crazy cheap over a short period of time, wind hasn't yet but the Germans are on the case. The needs of a grid with a lot of renewables are going to look very different from the needs of a grid without, but we don't know for sure how practical large-scale renewables are going to be in non-sunny countries, and wind might still turn out to suck for a while.

    Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?

    The Germans are having very heated discussions about energy prices with some manufacturers threatening to leave the country for places like the USA. A huge amount of money has been spent on windmills but the wires to distribute the power do not exist in sufficient numbers.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,477

    Forsyth on the reshuffles:

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9049821/what-the-reshuffles-showed-usnone-of-these-parties-are-ready-to-win/

    And Tory hopes of victory:

    "It is currently hard to see how either of the main parties can secure 40 per cent or more of the vote at the next general election. Indeed, there are senior figures inside Downing Street who believe that the Tories can’t realistically hope to garner this share of the vote in 2015. Instead, they argue that their most likely route to victory is to poll around 38 per cent themselves, keep the Labour vote down to 31 per cent or so and then hope that their targeting of marginal seats delivers a majority for them."

    A way to go then.......

    Given the way the polls have been, it's more likely to be 38% Labour, 31% Tory.....

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?

    That's what they are doing, and that is precisely the problem, giving that it takes 3-5 years, maybe more, to add new capacity once we find there isn't enough. The investors need some certainty, they were already showing doubts, and Ed has made it even worse.
    You don't have certainty in a free market.

    Weird thing about British politics: The left stopped doing socialism and made a big song-and-dance about it. But meanwhile the right have given up doing free markets, and everybody's too polite to mention it.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    It's very difficult to price a privatisation, I'd have thought, as the one thing you do not want is for it to flop or for there to be accusations that those who have bought small stakes have been fleeced. The government probably got it a touch wrong, but it's hardly a catastrophe. And the government will retain a minimum 30% ownership, so if the share price remains high there is a chance to cash in later on. Labour will obviously make its point, but in terms of great government sins it is way down the list and will very soon be forgotten.


    Its also true that the main aim of any privatisation is not to achieve the maximum value but to allow the company to develop, expand and innovate when freed from constraints of the State.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited October 2013

    It's very difficult to price a privatisation, I'd have thought, as the one thing you do not want is for it to flop or for there to be accusations that those who have bought small stakes have been fleeced. The government probably got it a touch wrong, but it's hardly a catastrophe. And the government will retain a minimum 30% ownership, so if the share price remains high there is a chance to cash in later on. Labour will obviously make its point, but in terms of great government sins it is way down the list and will very soon be forgotten.

    Bleeding PB Tory! Probably a Spurs fan too.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    perdix said:

    On the energy thing, everyone seems to talk about the energy companies not building much capacity as if it's a market failure, but are we sure it's not just the free market allocating capital correctly? Solar got crazy cheap over a short period of time, wind hasn't yet but the Germans are on the case. The needs of a grid with a lot of renewables are going to look very different from the needs of a grid without, but we don't know for sure how practical large-scale renewables are going to be in non-sunny countries, and wind might still turn out to suck for a while.

    Some people are afraid of blackouts, but those people seem to have strong representation from the bonkers community. Wouldn't a sensible market just hold off for a bit and see what happens?

    The Germans are having very heated discussions about energy prices with some manufacturers threatening to leave the country for places like the USA. A huge amount of money has been spent on windmills but the wires to distribute the power do not exist in sufficient numbers.

    I don't know how hot their discussions are but when it came to actual elections they threw out the only party that opposed the large-scale expansion of renewables.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JonathanD said:

    It's very difficult to price a privatisation, I'd have thought, as the one thing you do not want is for it to flop or for there to be accusations that those who have bought small stakes have been fleeced. The government probably got it a touch wrong, but it's hardly a catastrophe. And the government will retain a minimum 30% ownership, so if the share price remains high there is a chance to cash in later on. Labour will obviously make its point, but in terms of great government sins it is way down the list and will very soon be forgotten.


    Its also true that the main aim of any privatisation is not to achieve the maximum value but to allow the company to develop, expand and innovate when freed from constraints of the State.
    Correct - you want the company to flourish ensuring revenue after the floatation.

    The launch price is simply one static data point...
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited October 2013
    The Tories haven't freed Royal Mail from the state though, they've seemingly guaranteed 6% dividends

    Snigger - you really aren't hot in this area are you? You'll be telling investors it's undervalued and a clear buy before long... hope you have PI insurance for doing that.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Rather interesting - changes in female CS employment

    http://t.co/i6i3chlXTz
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    SeanT said:

    Guido now linking to Sean T's article in the Seen Elsewhere first line.

    That should be good for a few more hits then.

    It's now got 1000 shares - and I'm getting streams of readers emailing me saying "it's the best article I've ever read", or "the best blog I've seen in years" - clearly this is daft and way over-the-top but it's still nice. It's also being retweeted by celebs and MPs (Tory) - including our own Stewart Jackson. Suffice to say it has touched a nerve?

    In other news, I made minimum €50,000 this morning. My new book - the upmarket thriller - is at the Frankfurt Book Fair and is getting foreign offers, and going to auction in foreign territories.

    I am feeling worryingly chuffed and freakishly lucky. I may have to have a small car accident to even things out.
    Yes it was even retweeted onto my facebook account by a friend who has no connection with PB which was slightly bizarre. Strange how something can take off
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Norm said:

    SeanT said:

    Guido now linking to Sean T's article in the Seen Elsewhere first line.

    That should be good for a few more hits then.

    It's now got 1000 shares - and I'm getting streams of readers emailing me saying "it's the best article I've ever read", or "the best blog I've seen in years" - clearly this is daft and way over-the-top but it's still nice. It's also being retweeted by celebs and MPs (Tory) - including our own Stewart Jackson. Suffice to say it has touched a nerve?

    In other news, I made minimum €50,000 this morning. My new book - the upmarket thriller - is at the Frankfurt Book Fair and is getting foreign offers, and going to auction in foreign territories.

    I am feeling worryingly chuffed and freakishly lucky. I may have to have a small car accident to even things out.
    Yes it was even retweeted onto my facebook account by a friend who has no connection with PB which was slightly bizarre. Strange how something can take off
    I've been sent it about a dozen times on Twitter.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited October 2013
    "seemingly" and "guaranteed" aren't natural bed-fellows in a sentence are they?

    They have focused, I thought, on next Summer's dividend (singular) - rather different than a state guaranteed 6%pa perpetual dividend return (plural).

    As another value company than growth stock, dividends tend to be quite important don't they - have a look at National Grid, even Vodafone (esp the latter with a biggy coming next year).
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    "seemingly" and "guaranteed" aren't natural bed-fellows in a sentence are they?

    They have focused, I thought, on next Summer's dividend (singular) - rather different than a state guaranteed 6%pa perpetual dividend return (plural).

    As another value company than growth stock, dividends tend to be quite important don't they - have a look at National Grid, even Vodafone (esp the latter with a biggy coming next year).


    I think its Chuka we need to thank for driving up the price. His weekend tour of the studios, where he wailed about how undervalued the Royal Mail, was a masterstroke. We must assume he had put in for the full allocation and was hoping to do a quick pump and dump.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Plato said:

    Tracey Crouch is superb at this hearing #Leveson - I hope she gets promoted in the future. Forensic and cool headed stuff, never heard of her before.

    Tracey is down to earth. I believe she runs or ran a girls football team in Chatham. I imagine her energies will be spent fighting her seat in 2015 as Chatham and Aylesford is a Tory marginal susceptible to the sort of swing seen in Ashcrofts marginals poll recently.
  • @EiT - "Weird thing about British politics: The left stopped doing socialism and made a big song-and-dance about it. But meanwhile the right have given up doing free markets, and everybody's too polite to mention it."

    Very good, but not pitch perfect. The left never did socialism - it pretended to; the right never did free markets - it pretended to. Now they both pretend to do free markets. And, to be fair, we are much better off for that. Free markets will never be electorally viable; neither will socialism.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @iredalepolitics: Cameron "More private sector jobs created in #Yorkshire #Humber over past 3 years than any other region outside London"
This discussion has been closed.