The beast of Bolsover looked less than impressed with that comment. In fact there was quite a number sitting on their hands, if more being supportive. Labour are as split as the rest of the country.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The beast of Bolsover looked less than impressed with that comment. In fact there was quite a number sitting on their hands, if more being supportive. Labour are as split as the rest of the country.
He looked about as impressed as when I saw him in the posh seats at Cirque du Soleil...
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The decline in longevity is over the last few years, so not reflecting migration. In any case, Most BME groups have longer life expectancy than white BritonsScots..
It was a Scottish study but the figures include a seperate tab for White British. Better longevity than the Scots, but not as good as British Asians.
"The life expectancy of White Scottish males at birth was 74.7 years (95% CI 74.6 to 74.8), similar to Mixed Background (73.0; 70.2 to 75.8) and White Irish (75.0; 74.0 to 75.9), but shorter than Indian (80.9; 78.4 to 83.4), Pakistani (79.3; 76.9 to 81.6), Chinese (79.0; 76.5 to 81.5), Other White British (78.9; 78.6 to 79.2) and Other White (77.2; 76.4 to 78.1). "
It's still restricted to samples in the Scottish 2001 Census. There may be an issue with Scottish sub-samples.....
The divergence from the places they have left is dramtatic - and suspect. Life expectency in India in 2018 is 165th out of 228 countries at a little over 69 - not the 80.9 they found. In 2018, Pakistan is 169 out of 228 countries worldwide for life expectency at 68. By way of contrast, the UK is 29th at 81.
For example, the report doesn't cover mortality from anyone of African or Caribbean origin. I'm not sure you can rely on these numbers for UK wide effects on longevity. Somalia is 220th of 226 in the world at 53. Afghanistan 224th at 52. Both have recordable numbers present across the UK, if not perhaps in Scotland.
Though surely you see that if anything BME people bring up Scottish longevity.
Or perhaps look at places where Somalis have settled. We have 10 000 in Leicester and a substantial number of other black Africans particularly Zimbabwean, yet life expectancy is not falling as it is in Hartlepool.
I am not sure why you are so keen to deny the poor health and longevity of white Britons in post industrial areas. We can argue cause and cure, but I think the facts do show it.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The more positions Labour has (and the three suggested by John Rentoul is a very modest estimate) the greater chance that abstention is the only way of looking principled when it comes to the big votes
The beast of Bolsover looked less than impressed with that comment. In fact there was quite a number sitting on their hands, if more being supportive. Labour are as split as the rest of the country.
No, they really are not. 90% of Labour now favour a #peoplesvote. Skinner may well be one of the other 10%.
The leadership aside it does feel like it would be more honest if Labour came out as explicitly for remain, come what may, rather than straddling this line where they are essentially saying they might do anything at this point, and people are hearing something else entirely. But I cannot argue the political expediency in doing that, even if it lacks principles. But 'we will leave(or maybe not) and definitely better than the Tories' is weak as a message, even if it might well work.
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
71% do not think Corbyn is competent to negotiate Brexit
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
The Speccie seems to think Thornberry's speech was a leadership pitch and some think Starmer's speech was too. Is there a vacancy?
Starmer is someone a lot of normally-not-Labour voters would lend their vote to
Which is why he is unelectable to the membership.
Only the pure faithful are worthy
Given that the most extreme Corbyn supporters disagree with Corbyn on some things (eg the anti semitism stuff all being a smear, which Corbyn does not state), not even that can be certain.
I kind of miss the Tory extreme leadership supporters, just for some variety, but obviously what praise May does get is grudging thesedays.
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
71% do not think Corbyn is competent to negotiate Brexit
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
To coin a phrase once used by a wag on here once (albeit about David Davis), Labour could not negotiate a discount at SCS
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
The six tests are all verbatim taken from Tory negotiation objectives, so of course are a steaming pile of horsedung!
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Though surely you see that if anything BME people bring up Scottish longevity.
Or perhaps look at places where Somalis have settled. We have 10 000 in Leicester and a substantial number of other black Africans particularly Zimbabwean, yet life expectancy is not falling as it is in Hartlepool.
I am not sure why you are so keen to deny the poor health and longevity of white Britons in post industrial areas. We can argue cause and cure, but I think the facts do show it.
I'm not convinced that study, restricted as it was to Scotland, has wider UK reliability. That was what you were citing for the UK.
There is a very large Somali community in Cardiff. I would be interested to see if there was any noticable effect on life expectancy figures there.
It is of course possible that only the very strongest from other countries who reach us. It is possible that infant mortality skews their domestic numbers massively - and that is no longer a factor when they reach the UK. Without this sounding flippant, it may be that we get a disproportionate share of health care professionals from India and Pakistan who, by virtue of their line of business, know how to look after themselves better. But I do not accept without some further explanation that people from countries with massively lower life expectency numbers than the UK as a whole suddenly become longer lived than the domestic population they join.
The leadership aside it does feel like it would be more honest if Labour came out as explicitly for remain, come what may, rather than straddling this line where they are essentially saying they might do anything at this point, and people are hearing something else entirely. But I cannot argue the political expediency in doing that, even if it lacks principles. But 'we will leave(or maybe not) and definitely better than the Tories' is weak as a message, even if it might well work.
Yes, Labour's Brexit position has now become too contorted and incoherent even for me.
However, they are lucky that this is an issue where the country also thinks the question is impossibly contorted and incoherent (and dull), so incoherence from politicians on the subject is more forgivable. It's much more serious for Labour when they get themselves tied into knots on questions like "would you be willing to use the nuclear deterrent" (which, rightly or wrongly, strikes the public as a much more black-and-white question).
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
I do not idolise TM. She has many faults but she has little more than 3 weeks to do a deal but she has cabinet support.
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
Corbyn is an odious little man. Unfit for any office, let alone the highest
Today has shown labour do have alternative leaders in Starmer and Thornberry
Corbyn keeps the conservatives in power, they would be a long way behind with either of those leading labour
Yes but the cult will ensure that such capable people never have the chance to lead the labour Party now that it has been so comprehensively taken over by the anti-Semitic hard left
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
The six tests are all verbatim taken from Tory negotiation objectives, so of course are a steaming pile of horsedung!
That will boost Democrat chances of gaining the Senate as Florida was one of their most at risk states and a loss there would have cancelled out potential gains in Nevada, Arizona, Tennessee and Texas
The beast of Bolsover looked less than impressed with that comment. In fact there was quite a number sitting on their hands, if more being supportive. Labour are as split as the rest of the country.
No, they really are not. 90% of Labour now favour a #peoplesvote. Skinner may well be one of the other 10%.
Out of interest, where are you statistics coming from ?
They have no error bar, which is the mark of a very poor statistician.
But, I suspect that is not their only (or main) problem.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
I do not idolise TM. She has many faults but she has little more than 3 weeks to do a deal but she has cabinet support.
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
If any idiot delivers his type of Brexit it will be all our problem
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
We have to get a deal first but either way he will vote against May if she comes back with a Deal or No Deal, he just wants a general election
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
I do not idolise TM. She has many faults but she has little more than 3 weeks to do a deal but she has cabinet support.
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
If any idiot delivers his type of Brexit it will be all our problem
Though surely you see that if anything BME people bring up Scottish longevity.
Or perhaps look at places where Somalis have settled. We have 10 000 in Leicester and a substantial number of other black Africans particularly Zimbabwean, yet life expectancy is not falling as it is in Hartlepool.
I am not sure why you are so keen to deny the poor health and longevity of white Britons in post industrial areas. We can argue cause and cure, but I think the facts do show it.
I'm not convinced that study, restricted as it was to Scotland, has wider UK reliability. That was what you were citing for the UK.
There is a very large Somali community in Cardiff. I would be interested to see if there was any noticable effect on life expectancy figures there.
It is of course possible that only the very strongest from other countries who reach us. It is possible that infant mortality skews their domestic numbers massively - and that is no longer a factor when they reach the UK. Without this sounding flippant, it may be that we get a disproportionate share of health care professionals from India and Pakistan who, by virtue of their line of business, know how to look after themselves better. But I do not accept without some further explanation that people from countries with massively lower life expectency numbers than the UK as a whole suddenly become longer lived than the domestic population they join.
Low life expectancy in developing countries is largely due to infant mortality, maternal mortality, and infectios disease. Skip those and life expectancy is much like the developed world. Life expectancy at birth is now 76 in Vietnam, higher than Hartlepool or Leicester, and even Bangladesh at 72 is better than some parts of the UK.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
We have to get a deal first but either way he will vote against May if she comes back with a Deal or No Deal, he just wants a general election
With respect everything you say is cast as a certainty. In this climate there is no such thing.
I really do not mind the end result as long as we leave but sometimes a less dogmatic reading of events may be wise
Corbyn is an odious little man. Unfit for any office, let alone the highest
Interesting. I think for the first time Corbyn got grilled by Marr on Sunday. I think that the more intelligent of the left of centre opinion formers are waking up to Corbyn's threat and also that he is an impediment to a soft Brexit or Remaining.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
I do not idolise TM. She has many faults but she has little more than 3 weeks to do a deal but she has cabinet support.
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
If any idiot delivers his type of Brexit it will be all our problem
So far we have seen three leadership bids in rapid succession. Starmer Thornberry and McDonnell.
It's got to be Sir Keir.....
He's the most immediately credible to my mind, although obviously I am not the target electorate, and has achieved some smart politics in his present position.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
The EU have said 'No'.
How many times do they need to say it?
Let us see. Only a few weeks now
We've already seen. What more will it take?
TM to walk out or more likely strike a deal
I don't get your idolation of TM.
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
I do not idolise TM. She has many faults but she has little more than 3 weeks to do a deal but she has cabinet support.
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
If any idiot delivers his type of Brexit it will be all our problem
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
Corbyn's final Press TV appearance was six months after the network had its broadcasting license revoked by Ofcom for airing a forced confession by Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
Corbyn is an odious little man. Unfit for any office, let alone the highest
Interesting. I think for the first time Corbyn got grilled by Marr on Sunday. I think that the more intelligent of the left of centre opinion formers are waking up to Corbyn's threat and also that he is an impediment to a soft Brexit or Remaining.
"Yes I regret that" would have been astute, and would have defused the whole issue.
His refusal to do that after being confronted with the fact of a C4 journalist being tortured by the regime, and then humiliated on PressTV shows him to be completely inflexible on pretty much everything, and completely unsuitable for government.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
You really are an optimist.
There is Zero chance of TM getting a deal through unless it is a customs union.
Surely you must realise Chequers or similar has no chance of getting through no matter how many wishes you use to make it so.
Chequers is a mid way between Norway and Canada and I still believe it will be delivered subject to the cabinet remaining united
G , not a hope of it going anywhere.
I agree - cannot see Norway or Canada moving anywhere, lots of mountains, lakes and ice !!!
The beast of Bolsover looked less than impressed with that comment. In fact there was quite a number sitting on their hands, if more being supportive. Labour are as split as the rest of the country.
No, they really are not. 90% of Labour now favour a #peoplesvote. Skinner may well be one of the other 10%.
The hypocrisy of these Fu***** and their fake "peoples vote" crap is sickening. A pox on Labour and any other cretin who use that crap.
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
71% do not think Corbyn is competent to negotiate Brexit
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
We have to get a deal first but either way he will vote against May if she comes back with a Deal or No Deal, he just wants a general election
With respect everything you say is cast as a certainty. In this climate there is no such thing.
I really do not mind the end result as long as we leave but sometimes a less dogmatic reading of events may be wise
You do not need to be dogmatic to know that Corbyn and McDonnell will vote against whatever May does it does not come back with as they have made clear
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
71% do not think Corbyn is competent to negotiate Brexit
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
He could not run a bath.
Depends what you want out of it - your feet will get wet, and that is basically enough right?
Corbyn's final Press TV appearance was six months after the network had its broadcasting license revoked by Ofcom for airing a forced confession by Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
Present in the studio, but unaware anyone had a camera.....
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly. There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
71% do not think Corbyn is competent to negotiate Brexit
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
He could not run a bath.
Depends what you want out of it - your feet will get wet, and that is basically enough right?
KLE, I normally wish to bathe more than my feet, but very apt description.
Corbyn is an odious little man. Unfit for any office, let alone the highest
Interesting. I think for the first time Corbyn got grilled by Marr on Sunday. I think that the more intelligent of the left of centre opinion formers are waking up to Corbyn's threat and also that he is an impediment to a soft Brexit or Remaining.
"Yes I regret that" would have been astute, and would have defused the whole issue.
His refusal to do that after being confronted with the fact of a C4 journalist being tortured by the regime, and then humiliated on PressTV shows him to be completely inflexible on pretty much everything, and completely unsuitable for government.
He very much is an incredibly stubborn man. It's part of his strengths, when it comes to some of his political principles (at least for his supporters), but it really does seem sometimes that it applies to absolutely everything in his life, that he simply must drag things out, even on simple things, rather than show any flexibility. We know he can be flexible eventually, he would save a lot of trouble if he moved a little faster sometimes.
I know we don't want politicians who flip flop all the time and have no spine, but he just doesn't pick his moments well much of the time.
Corbyn's final Press TV appearance was six months after the network had its broadcasting license revoked by Ofcom for airing a forced confession by Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
The more positions Labour has on Brexit of course the better. All they need to do right up until the next GE is point at the Cons and say "Ooh I wouldn't have done it like that."
Corbyn's final Press TV appearance was six months after the network had its broadcasting license revoked by Ofcom for airing a forced confession by Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
There's a chap called Bim Afolami who is currently the top runner in Betfair's next PM market. (Just the sort order) I hope he gets a screenshot for himself.
Jeremy Corbyn is expected to use his conference speech in Liverpool to pledge an expansion of free childcare. Labour has previously said it would offer 30 hours of "genuinely free" childcare to all parents of two, three and four-year-olds in England. Labour say the plans will cost £4.5bn.
There's a chap called Bim Afolami who is currently the top runner in Betfair's next PM market. (Just the sort order) I hope he gets a screenshot for himself.
Bim was at Oxford during my time there. Nice bloke, one to watch for the future.
The more positions Labour has on Brexit of course the better. All they need to do right up until the next GE is point at the Cons and say "Ooh I wouldn't have done it like that."
The only thing missing is the piece of straw in their mouth as they do.....
(which should be a worry to Will Straw as to which bit.....)
Corbyn's final Press TV appearance was six months after the network had its broadcasting license revoked by Ofcom for airing a forced confession by Newsweek journalist Maziar Bahari.
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
Starmer, Starmer, Starmer, Starmer, Starmer ad libitum It stole the show, it stole the show Labour Brexit would be easy if Corb's colours were like our dream, Less red, more green Less red, more green
Here's a tip for your survival Treat Kier as Comrade, not as rival And Emily gives fair opinion On all matters Palestinian
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
"New Florida"? What happened to the old one? I quite liked the old one.
There used to be two Floridas you know, West and East, with West Florida including large chunks of what is now Alabama and Mississippi and a bit of what's now Louisiana. Mind you, I don't think the US, let alone the world, could cope with more than one Florida these days.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
Why, in your view, did he not support Leave during the campaign?
By the way, we may yet find out who's right. I think if we actually fall off the no-deal cliff which May seems intent on leading us to, the public will swing very quickly to Remain. My prediction is that in that case, Corbyn would switch to supporting Remain too. Presumably you think he wouldn't?
"New Florida"? What happened to the old one? I quite liked the old one.
There used to be two Floridas you know, West and East, with West Florida including large chunks of what is now Alabama and Mississippi and a bit of what's now Louisiana. Mind you, I don't think the US, let alone the world, could cope with more than one Florida these days.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
Just seen a recent photo of Carwyn Jones. Boy, he looks an absolute wreck.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
Why, in your view, did he not support Leave during the campaign?
By the way, we may yet find out who's right. I think if we actually fall off the no-deal cliff which May seems intent on leading us to, the public will swing very quickly to Remain. My prediction is that in that case, Corbyn would switch to supporting Remain too. Presumably you think he wouldn't?
Corbyn will support whatever he thinks will make him popular with his target audience, just as he has for the last 45 years.
All his contortions on Brexit, Iran, Israel, nuclear weapons, devolution, welfare make much more sense when you appreciate this approach.
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
Why, in your view, did he not support Leave during the campaign?
By the way, we may yet find out who's right. I think if we actually fall off the no-deal cliff which May seems intent on leading us to, the public will swing very quickly to Remain. My prediction is that in that case, Corbyn would switch to supporting Remain too. Presumably you think he wouldn't?
If Labour formed the next government and held a second EU referendum Remain could well beat No Deal if that was where we were but a Norway or Canada option would likely beat Remain if they were alternatives
While I do not see a GE Corbyn hedging on voting just now raised a point that could be interesting.
He will have seen the overwhelming support for remain in the conference hall today and the gauntlet Starmer has laid down and he may well come to the conclusion voting down TM deal could lead to a second referendum and the UK remaining. That would be a catastrophe for him so maybe abstain the deal and be out rather than risk remain
He campaigned for Remain in the referendum. Sure it was lukewarm, but the idea that he'd view remaining as "catastrophic" is ridiculous. The leadership's contortions over Brexit have been about trying not to alienate either side, not about Corbyn wanting Brexit at all costs.
Tonight Caerwyn Jones, Wales labour leader, and Neil Kinnoch have strongly come out against a second referendum. Corbyn is a brexiteer as much as JRM and there are many unhappy with Starmer tonight
Why, in your view, did he not support Leave during the campaign?
My guess would be that he is more flexible than people think, and at the least he is willing to play down those part of his views in order to gain power - he has grown as a leader in respect of making those kinds of compromises, even as it makes him less different than all other politicians like his followers believe.
Comments
How many times do they need to say it?
Or perhaps look at places where Somalis have settled. We have 10 000 in Leicester and a substantial number of other black Africans particularly Zimbabwean, yet life expectancy is not falling as it is in Hartlepool.
I am not sure why you are so keen to deny the poor health and longevity of white Britons in post industrial areas. We can argue cause and cure, but I think the facts do show it.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1044620238824910850
Also, the state of the replies. FFS. #notacult
The idea that a new government under Corbyn would do any better than May is just silly.
There would be a certain logic to it, if referendum-including-remain were part of the deal; it clearly isn’t.
68% do not think labour is competent to negotiate Brexit (Sky data poll)
I kind of miss the Tory extreme leadership supporters, just for some variety, but obviously what praise May does get is grudging thesedays.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1000862412483022854?s=19
Corbyn keeps the conservatives in power, they would be a long way behind with either of those leading labour
The EU say no, explicitly and clearly. Not maybe, an outright no. Are they lieing?
Why would you listen to TM but not the EU?
There is a very large Somali community in Cardiff. I would be interested to see if there was any noticable effect on life expectancy figures there.
It is of course possible that only the very strongest from other countries who reach us. It is possible that infant mortality skews their domestic numbers massively - and that is no longer a factor when they reach the UK. Without this sounding flippant, it may be that we get a disproportionate share of health care professionals from India and Pakistan who, by virtue of their line of business, know how to look after themselves better. But I do not accept without some further explanation that people from countries with massively lower life expectency numbers than the UK as a whole suddenly become longer lived than the domestic population they join.
However, they are lucky that this is an issue where the country also thinks the question is impossibly contorted and incoherent (and dull), so incoherence from politicians on the subject is more forgivable. It's much more serious for Labour when they get themselves tied into knots on questions like "would you be willing to use the nuclear deterrent" (which, rightly or wrongly, strikes the public as a much more black-and-white question).
The fact she may not deliver your kind of brexit is not my problem
Is that right, Jeremy? Starmer just commited you to Remain?
They have no error bar, which is the mark of a very poor statistician.
But, I suspect that is not their only (or main) problem.
I really do not mind the end result as long as we leave but sometimes a less dogmatic reading of events may be wise
It's got to be Sir Keir. He's not particularly charismatic but full of guile and suitably Machiavellian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_3
Probably doesn't remember if he was involved or not.
His refusal to do that after being confronted with the fact of a C4 journalist being tortured by the regime, and then humiliated on PressTV shows him to be completely inflexible on pretty much everything, and completely unsuitable for government.
I know we don't want politicians who flip flop all the time and have no spine, but he just doesn't pick his moments well much of the time.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2009/jul/29/iran-election-protest-dead-missing
Remember: he just told the world he left after he learned of the regime's abuse of the opposition. Snow should have picked him up on that.
JC is a lying shit-stain. In my opinion.
(which should be a worry to Will Straw as to which bit.....)
It stole the show, it stole the show
Labour Brexit would be easy if Corb's colours were like our dream,
Less red, more green
Less red, more green
Here's a tip for your survival
Treat Kier as Comrade, not as rival
And Emily gives fair opinion
On all matters Palestinian
By the way, we may yet find out who's right. I think if we actually fall off the no-deal cliff which May seems intent on leading us to, the public will swing very quickly to Remain. My prediction is that in that case, Corbyn would switch to supporting Remain too. Presumably you think he wouldn't?
All his contortions on Brexit, Iran, Israel, nuclear weapons, devolution, welfare make much more sense when you appreciate this approach.
NEW THREAD
Oh, and LAST!