Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
Nobody is ruling out remain as an option except for the General Secretary of Labour's largest affiliated trade union and the Shadow Chancellor!
Absolute nonsense. Do you think that the customs union between Northern Ireland and Great Britain is inherently protectionist or is it just a demarcation of political boundaries?
That’s not a customs union, that’s a single country.
A customs union is 3+ countries grouping together saying let’s collaborate in establishing a common external tariff
Tariffs are not the main feature of a customs union which is the idea that once a good is in, it is in, so if an American good is landed and checked at Rotterdam, say, then it never needs to be checked again as it crosses borders to France and then on to Britain, and of course this is win-win for goods originating inside the customs union. This leads to frictionless trade and that is the important point, not the tariff (if any) because that is just another element to the price, along with the cost of shipping. You could drop a tariff to zero and that would still be true.
Seeing as the EEC had a customs union why did the single market have to be invented to remove checks at borders within the customs union?
A customs union is not what allows frictionless trade. A customs union is simply a protectionist measure to co-ordinate tariff rules and trade policy. A customs union on its own does not get rid of the need for internal regulatory checks, it gets rid of the need for internal customs checks. Two different things.
The single market harmonised regulations and the combination of the SM and CU allows 'frictionless trade'. That is why NI remaining in the CU, or the UK remaining in the CU, does not really resolve anything. The UK could be in the CU (and therefore would outsource its trade policy) but have different regulations than the EU in theory, and the goods would still need to be checked for regulatory compliance when they cross the border.
As a result, when the EU talk about the NI 'issue' what they really mean is that the UK has to remain in both the CU and SM to 'solve' it. Which of course is because they are terrified that the UK will be more competitive outside their little racket.
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
If Labour come out firmly for Remain, it seems to me that they would gain and lose similar numbers of votes.
Labour people downplaying this: yes it was ad-libbed but it was a repeat of what Starmer said in morning interviews. But there is a difference between “supporting all options on the table” and explicitly saying “remain is an option”. Clearly in defiance of McDonnell et al
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
They are unlikely to need me to tell them that. Attitudes to Corbyn are far more important.
A customs union is not what allows frictionless trade. A customs union is simply a protectionist measure to co-ordinate tariff rules and trade policy. A customs union on its own does not get rid of the need for internal regulatory checks, it gets rid of the need for internal customs checks. Two different things.
Entirely correct with the exception of the word protectionist. One way or another trade policy needs to be coordinated, and doing it at a supranational level isn't inherently protectionist or not - it entirely depends on the policy.
Aiui, programming in the early days was dominated by women. It was probably seen as a mundane, almost clerical task to translate the calculations that men wanted into machine code
(My italics)
Exactly correct. Being "mundane" and "clerical" is was viewed as low status = women's work.
Once it started attracting high salaries and status, it became too hard for women's brains
(We really need a "Rolls-eyes" icon in PB)
Computation was seen as the clerical task (which it, largely, was); 'computers' were generally women.
John von Neumann's wife has a decent claim to have been the first programmer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klara_Dan_von_Neumann The length of her Wikipedia entry makes clear how little credit she still gets.
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
I should think that would be a good outcome for the Swedish Democrats.
"Life expectancy progress in UK 'stops for first time
Women's life expectancy from birth remains 82.9 years and for men it is 79.2, the figures from the Office for National Statistics, for 2015-17, show. In some parts of the UK, life expectancy has even decreased. For men and women in Scotland and Wales, it declined by more than a month. Men in Northern Ireland have seen a similar fall.'"
I expect as the state pension age rises and fewer people have access to defined benefit pensions, people work longer, the capacity of the NHS and social care system to cope declines further due to our ageing population, welfare handouts are cut and fewer people have a secure home in retirement due to the housing crisis it will only get worse. For every year you work past 65 the average person's life is shortened by 3 years - which is what the pension actuaries are counting on.
The boomers had it so good - and their grandkids will be paying the price.
A customs union is not what allows frictionless trade. A customs union is simply a protectionist measure to co-ordinate tariff rules and trade policy. A customs union on its own does not get rid of the need for internal regulatory checks, it gets rid of the need for internal customs checks. Two different things.
Entirely correct with the exception of the word protectionist. One way or another trade policy needs to be coordinated, and doing it at a supranational level isn't inherently protectionist or not - it entirely depends on the policy.
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
"Life expectancy progress in UK 'stops for first time
Women's life expectancy from birth remains 82.9 years and for men it is 79.2, the figures from the Office for National Statistics, for 2015-17, show. In some parts of the UK, life expectancy has even decreased. For men and women in Scotland and Wales, it declined by more than a month. Men in Northern Ireland have seen a similar fall.'"
I expect as the state pension age rises and fewer people have access to defined benefit pensions, people work longer, the capacity of the NHS and social care system to cope declines further due to our ageing population, welfare handouts are cut and fewer people have a secure home in retirement due to the housing crisis it will only get worse. For every year you work past 65 the average person's life is shortened by 3 years - which is what the pension actuaries are counting on.
The boomers had it so good - and their grandkids will be paying the price.
There may come a point at which it is actually very difficult to raise life expectancy further, given that it is finite.
Corbyn, Milne and McDonnell want us to leave the EU. A chaotic no deal Brexit makes it likelier that they will win the next election, after which they would be able to operate without the constraints of EU membership.
We are not going to have a second referendum with Remain as an option. It is not in the interest of the Conservative Party or the Labour leadership.
On 5 live this morning some expert ( yes I know) suggested any second referendum would require as a minimum
Norway Canada TM deal No deal Remain
Well that is utter chaos as indeed would be any second referendum.
Nah, it’ll produce the fairest result if it was conducted under the alternative vote.
I actually agree with that. Would you like to guess the result as I have no idea
What method of alternative vote counting would be used? As an example I saw one poll which went something like:-
43% no deal 23% Canada 34% Remain
Which leaves you in a position where the middle ground option(s) disappear in the first round of voting....
ICM had a poll with Remain 35%, Canada 25%, No Deal 18%, Norway 11%, Chequers 11%.
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
It's a problem for them now, but either there's a GE soon- which I can only see being the result of a disastrous conclusion to the Brexit neogitations, which would almost certainly put the Tories out of power- or it'll be in 2022, at which point the question of whether somebody would have supported an option on a referendum that didn't happen won't seem particularly pertinent.
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
I should think that would be a good outcome for the Swedish Democrats.
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
It's a problem for them now, but either there's a GE soon- which I can only see being the result of a disastrous conclusion to the Brexit neogitations, which would almost certainly put the Tories out of power- or it'll be in 2022, at which point the question of whether somebody would have supported an option on a referendum that didn't happen won't seem particularly pertinent.
True, but what the Corbyn inner circle want - effectively rerunning the 2017 election - seems completely deluded.
Corbyn has voted against all measures of European integration in Parliament since he was first elected. He voted Leave in 1975. He conspired to frustrate the BSE campaign.
These are not the actions of someone ambivalent on the subject.
But he campaigned for remain in 2016 (admittedly not very hard) and has said on several occasions since that he would still vote remain if a new referendum were held.
The weight of opinion amongst party members and MPs is such that he could not block another referendum even if he wanted to. And surely he doesn't really want to be tasked with trying to implement Brexit having seen what it has done to the Tories.
I don't believe for a moment that Corbyn voted Remain. He's never ever been pro-EU and he didn't start being pro-EU in 2016.
If Labour were to campaign hard now for a new referendum before March 29th on a Remain / May's deal - whatever that turns out to be, even if it turns out to be No Deal and Labour were to campaign for Remain, that might be a reason for some to view Corbyn's Labour a bit more favourably.
But, as far as I can tell, Labour won't vote for May's deal and don't want Remain to be on any new vote so they are for No Deal, I assume.
Who can say? They clearly can't.
Of course, after 29th March there is no Remain option anymore and it is a question of whether Britain wants to Rejoin and the EU is willing to have us back. Another kettle of fish entirely.
Quite why May is still flogging the Chequers dead horse beats me. What bit of the EU saying "no" did she not understand?
Anyway back to work. Am grumpy as won't get result of shoulder scan until mid October, some 2 months after first appointment, 5 months after first went to doctor and 10 months after problem first arose. And all the time I have had to chase them for updates. And the bloody pain continues. Grr......
Went to the GP in August about pain in my ankle, the result I suspect of a nasty injury in student days. Sent for an X-Ray, done at the walk-in same day. No results yet. At least 5 weeks apparently. Got fed up, went privately to see a physio and it’s sorted.
Bloody Tory under-funding. Either that or because (EU) specialist has gone home.
I paid for physio back in the spring. Did not work. It was Portuguese physio who told me to get scan. Could go private now and dip into my post-Brexit lentils and tinned tomato fund I suppose....... I just want to know the result of the bloody scan they have done. Am I looking at an op or more physio or what?
Anyway I can safely say that I have given up my attempt to get Meghan Markle style upper arms.
So the Swedish PM is voted out weeks after elections, with the Moderates unlikely to be able to get both its centrist allies and the Swedish Democrats to agree to share power, it looks like a Moderate and Social Democrat Grand Coalition
So if I've got it right Labour obfuscated the conference motion to the point where it doesn't mean anything, and now they're going to continue the food-fight in the national media by making contradictory claims about what the policy is.
I'd think that having a Remain option on the hypothetical referendum might also make Labour MPs slightly less likely to rebel on the vote on May's deal (assuming she manages to scrape something together that can actually be voted on)
Got a small back problem. Don't even notice it, except when I tried to do an abs exercise (leg raising). Used to be fine but isn't now. Seems to be gradually improving. I was a bit miffed, though, not least because my left shoulder also decided it didn't want to function.
Corbyn, Milne and McDonnell want us to leave the EU. A chaotic no deal Brexit makes it likelier that they will win the next election, after which they would be able to operate without the constraints of EU membership.
We are not going to have a second referendum with Remain as an option. It is not in the interest of the Conservative Party or the Labour leadership.
On 5 live this morning some expert ( yes I know) suggested any second referendum would require as a minimum
Norway Canada TM deal No deal Remain
Well that is utter chaos as indeed would be any second referendum.
Nah, it’ll produce the fairest result if it was conducted under the alternative vote.
I actually agree with that. Would you like to guess the result as I have no idea
What method of alternative vote counting would be used? As an example I saw one poll which went something like:-
43% no deal 23% Canada 34% Remain
Which leaves you in a position where the middle ground option(s) disappear in the first round of voting....
ICM had a poll with Remain 35%, Canada 25%, No Deal 18%, Norway 11%, Chequers 11%.
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
Do people really understand these options - or is it just we like Canada as a country and feel a certain affection and affinity for it so it just sounds good to be 'Canada'. Couldn't we just become a Canadian province - Old Poundland perhaps - and be done with it?
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
If Labour come out firmly for Remain, it seems to me that they would gain and lose similar numbers of votes.
I think the polling suggests it would be a vote winner, but of course who knows really? It might be just the thing the Tories need to recapture UKIP voters.
That said - Labour may not have a choice. Corbyn has done pretty well to hold back 80%+ of his members, but ultimately the ambiguity may not be sustainable.
Deselecting MPs = Democracy for the members not the voters Vote on Remain = Democracy for the voters not the members
"Alice Keir laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen Jeremy. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
So if I've got it right Labour obfuscated the conference motion to the point where it doesn't mean anything, and now they're going to continue the food-fight in the national media by making contradictory claims about what the policy is.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
Until either a General Election is announced or the Tory executive resign to allow the opposition a chance to form a new government executive, then the Labour Party does not need a policy, they are not in power. Nobody, including TMay has any clue what the conditions will be in play in the next hour, never mind tomorrow, next week, month or year to allow a coherent policy to be built - or are you suggesting that TMay resigns immediately?
KS is 12/1 to succeed Corbo. Is this anything other than tragically bad value? The next leader simply has to be a woman.
I really don't think this "Labour NEEDS a woman!!" line has much purchase in Labour ranks outside of the commentariat.
As it happens, the two frontrunners for my money happen to be women - Emily Thornberry and Angela Rayner are the two names that crop up when our local circle occasionally discusses the next leader, and I'd probably make them my choices right now. But if a man turns out to be better, then I'll feel fine about voting for him. Though I doubt I'd vote for Keir Starmer regardless.
Corbyn, Milne and McDonnell want us to leave the EU. A chaotic no deal Brexit makes it likelier that they will win the next election, after which they would be able to operate without the constraints of EU membership.
We are not going to have a second referendum with Remain as an option. It is not in the interest of the Conservative Party or the Labour leadership.
On 5 live this morning some expert ( yes I know) suggested any second referendum would require as a minimum
Norway Canada TM deal No deal Remain
Well that is utter chaos as indeed would be any second referendum.
Nah, it’ll produce the fairest result if it was conducted under the alternative vote.
I actually agree with that. Would you like to guess the result as I have no idea
What method of alternative vote counting would be used? As an example I saw one poll which went something like:-
43% no deal 23% Canada 34% Remain
Which leaves you in a position where the middle ground option(s) disappear in the first round of voting....
ICM had a poll with Remain 35%, Canada 25%, No Deal 18%, Norway 11%, Chequers 11%.
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
Do people really understand these options - or is it just we like Canada as a country and feel a certain affection and affinity for it so it just sounds good to be 'Canada'. Couldn't we just become a Canadian province - Old Poundland perhaps - and be done with it?
I think people would rather become a province of Canada than a state of either the EU or the USA though of course we would be more populous than the rest of Canada put together
Absolute nonsense. Do you think that the customs union between Northern Ireland and Great Britain is inherently protectionist or is it just a demarcation of political boundaries?
That’s not a customs union, that’s a single country.
A customs union is 3+ countries grouping together saying let’s collaborate in establishing a common external tariff
Tariffs are not the main feature of a customs union which is the idea that once a good is in, it is in, so if an American good is landed and checked at Rotterdam, say, then it never needs to be checked again as it crosses borders to France and then on to Britain, and of course this is win-win for goods originating inside the customs union. This leads to frictionless trade and that is the important point, not the tariff (if any) because that is just another element to the price, along with the cost of shipping. You could drop a tariff to zero and that would still be true.
Seeing as the EEC had a customs union why did the single market have to be invented to remove checks at borders within the customs union?
A customs union is not what allows frictionless trade. A customs union is simply a protectionist measure to co-ordinate tariff rules and trade policy. A customs union on its own does not get rid of the need for internal regulatory checks, it gets rid of the need for internal customs checks. Two different things.
The single market harmonised regulations and the combination of the SM and CU allows 'frictionless trade'. That is why NI remaining in the CU, or the UK remaining in the CU, does not really resolve anything. The UK could be in the CU (and therefore would outsource its trade policy) but have different regulations than the EU in theory, and the goods would still need to be checked for regulatory compliance when they cross the border.
As a result, when the EU talk about the NI 'issue' what they really mean is that the UK has to remain in both the CU and SM to 'solve' it. Which of course is because they are terrified that the UK will be more competitive outside their little racket.
Where for example could the UK be more competitive outside the EU?
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
If Labour come out firmly for Remain, it seems to me that they would gain and lose similar numbers of votes.
I think the polling suggests it would be a vote winner, but of course who knows really? It might be just the thing the Tories need to recapture UKIP voters.
That said - Labour may not have a choice. Corbyn has done pretty well to hold back 80%+ of his members, but ultimately the ambiguity may not be sustainable.
The last poll had 26% more likely to vote Labour, and 8% less likely, if they backed a referendum, but the vast majority of the more likely are already Labour Remainers.
Steve Turner, the Unite assistant general secretary, says many trade unionists did vote for Brexit. They feel left behind, in communities battered by austerity. “A perfect storm” has divided the nation. It is Labour’s job to step up, and get access to the single market and customs union membership.
He says a vote on the deal would not be a second referendum. Despite what Keir Starmer said earlier, it would be a public vote on the terms of departure, he says.
Brexit is going to dominate all the headlines from the labour conference much to the dismay of the leadership
Maybe it's their 'dead cat', to distract from the ongoing antisemitism?
Nah, I think that had just about slipped off the news agenda. All they're distracting from is Mcdonnell's popular announcement yesterday. I think all they can really do now is cross their fingers and hope that the Tory conference is even more of a mess than this. Though honestly I think both of them are going to be forgotten quickly as we near Brexit crunch point (unless the Tory conference precipitates any big changes, which at this point looks unlikely)
Corbyn is the coprolite that is concreting so much of British politics into an uneasy stasis. If he goes then everything changes. Any other Labour leader would do so much better in the polls that May would be ejected shortly after.
Corbyn is the coprolite that is concreting so much of British politics into an uneasy stasis. If he goes then everything changes. Any other Labour leader would do so much better in the polls that May would be ejected shortly after.
Depends - if Lab de-bonkersifies itself who's to say that the Cons wouldn't also. Starmer, say, or La Thornberry vs JRM is one thing. But either of them vs, say, Amber Rudd would be a different kettle of mackerel.
Corbyn, Milne and McDonnell want us to leave the EU. A chaotic no deal Brexit makes it likelier that they will win the next election, after which they would be able to operate without the constraints of EU membership.
We are not going to have a second referendum with Remain as an option. It is not in the interest of the Conservative Party or the Labour leadership.
On 5 live this morning some expert ( yes I know) suggested any second referendum would require as a minimum
Norway Canada TM deal No deal Remain
Well that is utter chaos as indeed would be any second referendum.
Nah, it’ll produce the fairest result if it was conducted under the alternative vote.
I actually agree with that. Would you like to guess the result as I have no idea
What method of alternative vote counting would be used? As an example I saw one poll which went something like:-
43% no deal 23% Canada 34% Remain
Which leaves you in a position where the middle ground option(s) disappear in the first round of voting....
ICM had a poll with Remain 35%, Canada 25%, No Deal 18%, Norway 11%, Chequers 11%.
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
Deselecting MPs = Democracy for the members not the voters Vote on Remain = Democracy for the voters not the members
"Alice Keir laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen Jeremy. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Democracy = we just keep voting on the same issue until I get the result I want?!
The people's vote people keep telling us they want a vote 'on the terms of the deal'? Doesnt that mean the deal to leave? Not the deal to remain?
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
If Labour come out firmly for Remain, it seems to me that they would gain and lose similar numbers of votes.
I think the polling suggests it would be a vote winner, but of course who knows really? It might be just the thing the Tories need to recapture UKIP voters.
That said - Labour may not have a choice. Corbyn has done pretty well to hold back 80%+ of his members, but ultimately the ambiguity may not be sustainable.
Isn't the salient question where those votes will move? If it's more votes in inner-city London and less votes in the midlands or the suburban north that's not a trade that would want.
Deselecting MPs = Democracy for the members not the voters Vote on Remain = Democracy for the voters not the members
"Alice Keir laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen Jeremy. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Democracy = we just keep voting on the same issue until I get the result I want?!
Corbyn, Milne and McDonnell want us to leave the EU. A chaotic no deal Brexit makes it likelier that they will win the next election, after which they would be able to operate without the constraints of EU membership.
We are not going to have a second referendum with Remain as an option. It is not in the interest of the Conservative Party or the Labour leadership.
On 5 live this morning some expert ( yes I know) suggested any second referendum would require as a minimum
Norway Canada TM deal No deal Remain
Well that is utter chaos as indeed would be any second referendum.
Nah, it’ll produce the fairest result if it was conducted under the alternative vote.
I actually agree with that. Would you like to guess the result as I have no idea
What method of alternative vote counting would be used? As an example I saw one poll which went something like:-
43% no deal 23% Canada 34% Remain
Which leaves you in a position where the middle ground option(s) disappear in the first round of voting....
ICM had a poll with Remain 35%, Canada 25%, No Deal 18%, Norway 11%, Chequers 11%.
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
Deselecting MPs = Democracy for the members not the voters Vote on Remain = Democracy for the voters not the members
"Alice Keir laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen Jeremy. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Democracy = we just keep voting on the same issue until I get the result I want?!
The people's vote people keep telling us they want a vote 'on the terms of the deal'? Doesnt that mean the deal to leave? Not the deal to remain?
I should have put "Denying a vote to remain = Democracy for the voters not the members".
Anyway, I was highlighting the inconsistency in Corbynite logic, not giving my support to either view.
The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.
#obviousjokes
Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
I can multi task.
I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
You remind me of a story I was told by an eminent QC. He'd spent two hours on his feet making a very complicated argument in the Court of Appeal. When he sat down his junior whispered "I've just won a million quid!". All the time he'd been playing roulette on his laptop.
There is a story at the Scottish Bar that senior counsel is asked a question in the Supreme Court which completely flummoxes him and blows a hole in his argument. To his relief he feels a tug on his gown from his learned junior. Asking the courts indulgence he turns for enlightenment. His junior advises him, "that's a hell of a question".
Seeing as the EEC had a customs union why did the single market have to be invented to remove checks at borders within the customs union?
A customs union is not what allows frictionless trade. A customs union is simply a protectionist measure to co-ordinate tariff rules and trade policy. A customs union on its own does not get rid of the need for internal regulatory checks, it gets rid of the need for internal customs checks. Two different things.
The single market harmonised regulations and the combination of the SM and CU allows 'frictionless trade'. That is why NI remaining in the CU, or the UK remaining in the CU, does not really resolve anything. The UK could be in the CU (and therefore would outsource its trade policy) but have different regulations than the EU in theory, and the goods would still need to be checked for regulatory compliance when they cross the border.
As a result, when the EU talk about the NI 'issue' what they really mean is that the UK has to remain in both the CU and SM to 'solve' it. Which of course is because they are terrified that the UK will be more competitive outside their little racket.
Where for example could the UK be more competitive outside the EU?
"The U.K.’s proposal to free itself from Brussels regulations on services would save British businesses billions of pounds a year, according to a briefing for EU27 diplomats by Michel Barnier’s negotiating team....The Commission quoted an internal study, which estimated that if the U.K. is freed from just seven unspecified EU regulations, it would provide savings for British businesses of €6 billion a year, according to two EU officials.
Although that figure is dwarfed by the turnover of the U.K. services sector — which makes up 79 percent of the country’s GDP — the savings for U.K. firms would potentially be much higher if they are released from the full spectrum of Brussels regulations on services."
Off topic, but a very interesting discussion on WATO. Apparently life expectancy falling in UK, and infant mortality up for a second year in a row, for the first time since WW2. At odds with comparable countries. No one seems to know why.
Off topic, but a very interesting discussion on WATO. Apparently life expectancy falling in UK, and infant mortality up for a second year in a row, for the first time since WW2. At odds with comparable countries. No one seems to know why.
After discussing brexit for another day, a whisky with a Colt 45 chaser becomes quite appealing.
Off topic, but a very interesting discussion on WATO. Apparently life expectancy falling in UK, and infant mortality up for a second year in a row, for the first time since WW2. At odds with comparable countries. No one seems to know why.
The same thing is happening in the States to the Anglo white population. Opioids are playing a role there.
Off topic, but a very interesting discussion on WATO. Apparently life expectancy falling in UK, and infant mortality up for a second year in a row, for the first time since WW2. At odds with comparable countries. No one seems to know why.
After discussing brexit for another day, a whisky with a Colt 45 chaser becomes quite appealing.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
Until either a General Election is announced or the Tory executive resign to allow the opposition a chance to form a new government executive, then the Labour Party does not need a policy, they are not in power. Nobody, including TMay has any clue what the conditions will be in play in the next hour, never mind tomorrow, next week, month or year to allow a coherent policy to be built - or are you suggesting that TMay resigns immediately?
I'm not suggesting anything, but I'd be delighted if TM called another election and Labour got the chance to have a go!
So Keir Starmer has said to the EU-do not offer the UK anything. Within weeks we may get a second referendum and a Remain vote. Is that it or have I missed something?
Fair comment. The political damage to labour in leave areas could be severe
I doubt that. Brexit is not a very salient issue for Labour voters - whether they voted Leave or Remain.
Tell that to labour mps in leave areas
If Labour come out firmly for Remain, it seems to me that they would gain and lose similar numbers of votes.
I think the polling suggests it would be a vote winner, but of course who knows really? It might be just the thing the Tories need to recapture UKIP voters.
That said - Labour may not have a choice. Corbyn has done pretty well to hold back 80%+ of his members, but ultimately the ambiguity may not be sustainable.
Isn't the salient question where those votes will move? If it's more votes in inner-city London and less votes in the midlands or the suburban north that's not a trade that would want.
ICM suggest this would be a vote winner in marginal constituencies but I've not seen the analysis in detail.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
There was definitely a descant above the applause. I'd say 'rapturous' is fair enough.
Got a small back problem. Don't even notice it, except when I tried to do an abs exercise (leg raising). Used to be fine but isn't now. Seems to be gradually improving. I was a bit miffed, though, not least because my left shoulder also decided it didn't want to function.
Bloody socialist joints, going on strike.
So do I. I have had 11 operations, 10 of which have all been on one side of my body. Coupled with my crap lungs it’s a miracle I’ve made it this far. I really don’t need a 12th.
I have all sorts of sporting injuries from cycling and ski-ing but, sadly, without the sporting physique to go with it. Bummer.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
There was definitely a descant above the applause. I'd say 'rapturous' is fair enough.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
There was definitely a descant above the applause. I'd say 'rapturous' is fair enough.
Two years ago, Roman Abramovich, one of the world’s richest men, took action to set up residence in the Alps. The Swiss State Secretariat for Migration (SEM) confirms that the billionaire filed «an application for a residence permit.» In July 2016 the 51-year-old Russian applied for a residence permit in Canton Valais. He also approached the head of the Swiss federal police personally to insist that it be granted. But in fact the migration authorities were about to turn the high-profile move down.
One of the reasons given by Federal Office of Police, or Fedpol, is suspicion of money laundering. According to them, Abramovich allegedly also has contacts to criminal organizations. The police view his presence in Switzerland as a danger to public security and to Switzerland’s reputation. However the police have given no indication of the basis for their claims. They therefore cannot be verified. Abramovich himself vehemently denies all the allegations.
Lots of ifs and not ruling out....classic politician speak that at first hearing you definitely think says one thing, but actually doesn't quite say that.
The media coverage of Starmer being applauded to the rafters' and no doubt lots of EU flags waving' for his confirmation that remain will be on the ballot paper is going to go down like a lead balloon in all the leave constituencies and lots of labour mps in those areas will be very worried and angry today
Hardly rapturous applause. Enthusiastic perhaps. Get the BBC politico down to a Championship game on a weekday evening, away from home, when your team scores a last-minute equaliser and then come back to me with rapturous.
Labour still don't have a Brexit policy, they have a Brexit cold war.
Nobody is ruling out remain as an option except for the General Secretary of Labour's largest affiliated trade union and the Shadow Chancellor!
LOL I was going to write the same thing but hit Ctrl+F for ruling out to see if anyone had beaten me to it and found this first. So very true.
Corbyn and McDonnell would have to be removed for Starmer to get his way. Very telling too that the line there was ad libbed by him and not on the approved script that had been cleared past Milne.
Comments
The single market harmonised regulations and the combination of the SM and CU allows 'frictionless trade'. That is why NI remaining in the CU, or the UK remaining in the CU, does not really resolve anything. The UK could be in the CU (and therefore would outsource its trade policy) but have different regulations than the EU in theory, and the goods would still need to be checked for regulatory compliance when they cross the border.
As a result, when the EU talk about the NI 'issue' what they really mean is that the UK has to remain in both the CU and SM to 'solve' it. Which of course is because they are terrified that the UK will be more competitive outside their little racket.
Labour people downplaying this: yes it was ad-libbed but it was a repeat of what Starmer said in morning interviews. But there is a difference between “supporting all options on the table” and explicitly saying “remain is an option”. Clearly in defiance of McDonnell et al
John von Neumann's wife has a decent claim to have been the first programmer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klara_Dan_von_Neumann
The length of her Wikipedia entry makes clear how little credit she still gets.
The boomers had it so good - and their grandkids will be paying the price.
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1044546098348662784
If he became labour leader I am confident labour would win the next election whenever it happens
http://kcoyle.blogspot.com/2012/11/turings-cathedral-or-women-disappear.html
http://wikielections.com/europe-elections/sweden/sweden-parliament-election-2018-election-results-by-party-constituency/
That would produce a Canada v Remain runoff which Canada would win with a net +20% to +1% for Remain
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/libleave_brexit_spectrum.html
https://twitter.com/dresserman/status/1044526420037373952
Anyway I can safely say that I have given up my attempt to get Meghan Markle style upper arms.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1044550314769219585
His supporters have quite the overlap with the bonkers wing of the membership and Momentum. Can't think what unites them [innocent face].
Got a small back problem. Don't even notice it, except when I tried to do an abs exercise (leg raising). Used to be fine but isn't now. Seems to be gradually improving. I was a bit miffed, though, not least because my left shoulder also decided it didn't want to function.
Bloody socialist joints, going on strike.
Did Watson deliberately engineer it being killed by supporting it?
Or did he genuinely agree with the idea as it would allow another power base outside Jezza's office?
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1044536870754021376
Russia has never had a woman president - no chance Corbyn's mob will have one.
That said - Labour may not have a choice. Corbyn has done pretty well to hold back 80%+ of his members, but ultimately the ambiguity may not be sustainable.
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1044551665687429120
Vote on Remain = Democracy for the voters not the members
"
AliceKeir laughed: "There's no use trying," he said; "one can't believe impossible things.""I daresay you haven't had much practice," said
the QueenJeremy. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."As it happens, the two frontrunners for my money happen to be women - Emily Thornberry and Angela Rayner are the two names that crop up when our local circle occasionally discusses the next leader, and I'd probably make them my choices right now. But if a man turns out to be better, then I'll feel fine about voting for him. Though I doubt I'd vote for Keir Starmer regardless.
The last poll had 26% more likely to vote Labour, and 8% less likely, if they backed a referendum, but the vast majority of the more likely are already Labour Remainers.
He says a vote on the deal would not be a second referendum. Despite what Keir Starmer said earlier, it would be a public vote on the terms of departure, he says.
The people's vote people keep telling us they want a vote 'on the terms of the deal'? Doesnt that mean the deal to leave? Not the deal to remain?
Anyway, I was highlighting the inconsistency in Corbynite logic, not giving my support to either view.
Oh, oh, Keir Starmer. *lights cigarette*
Although that figure is dwarfed by the turnover of the U.K. services sector — which makes up 79 percent of the country’s GDP — the savings for U.K. firms would potentially be much higher if they are released from the full spectrum of Brussels regulations on services."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-back-second-referendum-gain-power-general-election-polls-a8547676.html
I have all sorts of sporting injuries from cycling and ski-ing but, sadly, without the sporting physique to go with it. Bummer.
EDIT: Huh. They stopped making that 9 years ago. Christ, I feel old.
A three-litre bottle of Frosty Jack’s contains the equivalent of 22 SHOTS of vodka !!!!!! All for £3-4
One of the reasons given by Federal Office of Police, or Fedpol, is suspicion of money laundering. According to them, Abramovich allegedly also has contacts to criminal organizations. The police view his presence in Switzerland as a danger to public security and to Switzerland’s reputation. However the police have given no indication of the basis for their claims. They therefore cannot be verified. Abramovich himself vehemently denies all the allegations.
https://m.24heures.ch/articles/5ba941beab5c370f09000001
Her father was a bookie, too.
Frosty Jacks much cost a fortune in Scotland. I assume the good burghers of Berwick are making a killing.
Mikey Smith
Verified account @mikeysmith
Understand there’s a stunt planned where members in the conference hall will unfurl Palestinian flags during Emily Thornberry’s speech.
Flags have been distributed, members being told to “be discreet” with them.
what the actually f***king fu**????
Corbyn and McDonnell would have to be removed for Starmer to get his way. Very telling too that the line there was ad libbed by him and not on the approved script that had been cleared past Milne.