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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » More evidence that Corbyn is not now getting anything like the

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  • Mr. NorthWales, maybe.

    There comes a point when such sane MPs are just nodding dogs, useless idiots willing to tolerate what Labour's become because they love red rosettes enough to put up with the wretchedness.
  • AndyJS said:

    "Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    1h1 hour ago

    Germany, INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 27% (-1)
    AfD-EFDD: 18%
    SPD-S&D: 16% (-1)
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 15%
    LINKE-LEFT: 12% (+1)
    FDP-ALDE: 10%

    Field work: 21-24/09/18
    Sample size: 2,051"

    The FIVE parties below the CDU/CSU separated by only 8 percent and totalling 71% between them!
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018

    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.

    I suspect the head did not foresee the level of media coverage that would be heading his/her way when he/she said "ok, then". Probably has his/her (literal) head in his/her hands right now!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    From that YouGov on racists

    "the same number of Brits see Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn as Islamophobic, at 9% each…"

    Now there is one thing that I definitely wouldn't call Jezza is an Islamophobe.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
  • Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
  • Some more Brexit no deal papers have been published

    https://twitter.com/robdothutton/status/1044242505955508225?s=21
  • Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    Utterly shameful of the government.
    I cannot say how much I condemn them for a cock eyed view that they will vote for anything that could damage the EU

    The good news is that both they and Farage will be unemployed from March 2019
    I don't think this was aimed at damage to the EU, more about trying to shore up an ally, however deeply flawed that ally is.
  • Anorak said:

    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.

    I suspect the head did not foresee the level of media coverage that would be heading his/her way when he/she said "ok, then". Probably has his/her (literal) head in his/her hands right now!
    Googling has revealed that he is a teaching assistant rather than a teacher.
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    Utterly shameful of the government.
    I cannot say how much I condemn them for a cock eyed view that they will vote for anything that could damage the EU

    The good news is that both they and Farage will be unemployed from March 2019
    I don't think this was aimed at damage to the EU, more about trying to shore up an ally, however deeply flawed that ally is.
    I do not think for one moment that TM would shore up Hungary
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    Call off all the bloody busybodies on PB who were just about to write to his headmistress!
  • Hi everyone. Just as an update, my operation was a success but I’m still in the hospital. Hopefully they will let me go home soon. Thanks for all your kind words prior!

    Once you’re out of hospital I’ll do a thread on AV in your honour.

    How’s that for an incentive.
    Perhaps there could be a thread on whether the enzymes in pineapple can assist with the digestion of grilled cheese on round bread, in case @Gallowgate is on a restricted diet.
  • Sandpit said:

    Mortimer said:

    OchEye said:
    More EU cherry picking.

    The UK stays intact. Until they get that, we can't move forward.
    Easy just stay in CU and SM.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42412972
    So we have to accept law we have no say on, have no ability to make trade deals and have to allow freedom of movement. In what conceivable way have we left the EU?
    Legally.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    He looks like a bolshy sixth former rather than a teacher.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    The framework is just as much determined by the EU’s red lines, and the political imperative of discouraging others from going down the same path.

    Is the EU refusing a Brexit based on the full SM/CU?
    Full SM/CU is not Brexit.
    It is for Norway, etc

    Edit: and of course this is the most corrosive thing the Brexiters have done to our country. Peddled the myth that EEA/EFTA is somehow not in keeping with the vote in 2016 which is of course absolute bolleaux and won't that invented idea well and truly f&ck the country.
    EEA countries are not in the Customs Union.

    The Tory party has committed to end free movement from the EU. So it isn't consistent with government policy to remain in the SM.
    Yes I appreciate that EEA countries are not in the CU. And it is entirely my point that the Tory Party decided that the vote meant that "the people" don't want FoM. Now of course many don't but so what? Brexit was always going to disappoint many people so I don't see why the fuckers decided that freedom of movement should be so important.
    Indeed so. This is the arse-wipe nonsense at the core of the entire Brexit conundrum. Basically Mortimer – a bloke on the internet – HYUFD – another bloke on the internet – and some reactionaries in the Tory party have decided that ending the free movement of furinners is some sort of incontrovertible golden principle. It is toilet of the lowest order.
  • Anazina said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    Call off all the bloody busybodies on PB who were just about to write to his headmistress!
    I still think it is wrong for anyone who holds these views regarding political indoctrination to be involved in the education of young people.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,435
    edited September 2018

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
  • So Brenda you joining waa-waa...

    Weight Watchers drops 'weight' from name

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45625191
  • Hi everyone. Just as an update, my operation was a success but I’m still in the hospital. Hopefully they will let me go home soon. Thanks for all your kind words prior!

    Once you’re out of hospital I’ll do a thread on AV in your honour.

    How’s that for an incentive.
    Perhaps there could be a thread on whether the enzymes in pineapple can assist with the digestion of grilled cheese on round bread, in case @Gallowgate is on a restricted diet.
    I did such a thread last year.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/24/reviewing-2017-the-polling-that-made-me-think-53-of-the-electorate-should-be-denied-the-vote/
  • Some of you may recall I have started stockpiling food...

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1044234811626393600
  • If there is serious disruption to food supplies next Spring, then the Tories are utterly, totally sunk.

    Has the potential for civil disorder.

    Recall what happened during Blair's time, when tanker drivers stopped work.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    Call off all the bloody busybodies on PB who were just about to write to his headmistress!
    I still think it is wrong for anyone who holds these views regarding political indoctrination to be involved in the education of young people.
    My economics master was a hardcore, true blue tory and argued tooth and nail with the only leftie in the class (me) and publicly tried to overcome my arguments. He was also a brilliant teacher whom I still remember today as a class act. Teachers have political views – they are human. Just accept it.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    In fairness, that's fairly unlikely :)
  • Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
  • Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    Call off all the bloody busybodies on PB who were just about to write to his headmistress!
    I still think it is wrong for anyone who holds these views regarding political indoctrination to be involved in the education of young people.
    My economics master was a hardcore, true blue tory and argued tooth and nail with the only leftie in the class (me) and publicly tried to overcome my arguments. He was also a brilliant teacher whom I still remember today as a class act. Teachers have political views – they are human. Just accept it.
    There is a significant difference between what you are talking about and the political indoctrination that this teaching assistant is advocating.
  • Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    Not at all - it was his repugnant message
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
    It's more that sanctions against Hungary are none of our business. We have no quarrel with them.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    edited September 2018
    ***Rapidly checks unsettled bets***

    https://twitter.com/chriswdrew/status/1044196673076056064

    FYI - Chris has known Mike for 57 years.
  • matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
  • matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    I would be more than happy to condemn any teacher who stood up at a conference and said that children should be indoctrinated to always vote Conservative.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    How Jesuitical ("give me the child until he is seven ...").
    Or perhaps Jezzianic.
  • matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    I would be more than happy to condemn any teacher who stood up at a conference and said that children should be indoctrinated to always vote Conservative.
    That isn't the issue. You were whining that he should be at work.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    I would be more than happy to condemn any teacher who stood up at a conference and said that children should be indoctrinated to always vote Conservative.
    Happily, children will frequently react against teachers who try to indoctrinate them.
  • matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    I would be more than happy to condemn any teacher who stood up at a conference and said that children should be indoctrinated to always vote Conservative.
    That isn't the issue. You were whining that he should be at work.
    Read all of what I said - not just part. All will become clear to you then.
  • matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    I would be more than happy to condemn any teacher who stood up at a conference and said that children should be indoctrinated to always vote Conservative.
    That isn't the issue. You were whining that he should be at work.
    Read all of what I said - not just part. All will become clear to you then.
    I did, and you were whining that he shouldn't be allowed to take time off to spout his (admittedly unsavoury) views.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    edited September 2018
    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Alistair said:
    The administration (and Kelly in particular) has played these kind of games before.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    The framework is just as much determined by the EU’s red lines, and the political imperative of discouraging others from going down the same path.

    Is the EU refusing a Brexit based on the full SM/CU?
    Full SM/CU is not Brexit.
    It is for Norway, etc

    Edit: and of course this is the most corrosive thing the Brexiters have done to our country. Peddled the myth that EEA/EFTA is somehow not in keeping with the vote in 2016 which is of course absolute bolleaux and won't that invented idea well and truly f&ck the country.
    EEA countries are not in the Customs Union.

    The Tory party has committed to end free movement from the EU. So it isn't consistent with government policy to remain in the SM.
    Yes I appreciate that EEA countries are not in the CU. And it is entirely my point that the Tory Party decided that the vote meant that "the people" don't want FoM. Now of course many don't but so what? Brexit was always going to disappoint many people so I don't see why the fuckers decided that freedom of movement should be so important.
    Indeed so. This is the arse-wipe nonsense at the core of the entire Brexit conundrum. Basically Mortimer – a bloke on the internet – HYUFD – another bloke on the internet – and some reactionaries in the Tory party have decided that ending the free movement of furinners is some sort of incontrovertible golden principle. It is toilet of the lowest order.
    The Tories have made a judgement that ending free movement is in the interest of Britain. Much to the distaste of other blokes on the internet, it is quite popular.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    50% of Labour voters think Corbyn would make a better PM than May but 80% of Tory voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn are the key stats
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    There is a link to a good article on last thread, that it is totally unforceable against big companies. It is much more problematic policy for startups looking for see investment and those around the cut off number of employees.
  • McDonnell is re-ambiguating ( if that's a word ) the Labour position on the referendum after Starmer got involved. "We're keeping all options on the table".

    The Labour Party will debate this tomorrow, & the McDonnell/Mcluskey Brexiteer plan will come under even more pressure.
  • I did, and you were whining that he shouldn't be allowed to take time off to spout his (admittedly unsavoury) views.

    I made both points - it is all there in pixels. And I stand by both.

    Teachers should be in the classroom not at a party conference. This is not a party political thing for me - it is a matter of priorities.

    Teachers need very good reasons to take time out during the school year. And most heads only allow it in extraordinary circumstances as it is a significant extra cost to them to provide supply teachers. I don't believe attending any party conference is a good enough reason.

    As it turns out and as I acknowledged, this individual is a teaching assistant and thus not bound by the same contractual obligations as a qualified teacher.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Anazina said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    The framework is just as much determined by the EU’s red lines, and the political imperative of discouraging others from going down the same path.

    Is the EU refusing a Brexit based on the full SM/CU?
    Full SM/CU is not Brexit.
    It is for Norway, etc

    Edit: and of course this is the most corrosive thing the Brexiters have done to our country. Peddled the myth that EEA/EFTA is somehow not in keeping with the vote in 2016 which is of course absolute bolleaux and won't that invented idea well and truly f&ck the country.
    EEA countries are not in the Customs Union.

    The Tory party has committed to end free movement from the EU. So it isn't consistent with government policy to remain in the SM.
    Yes I appreciate that EEA countries are not in the CU. And it is entirely my point that the Tory Party decided that the vote meant that "the people" don't want FoM. Now of course many don't but so what? Brexit was always going to disappoint many people so I don't see why the fuckers decided that freedom of movement should be so important.
    Indeed so. This is the arse-wipe nonsense at the core of the entire Brexit conundrum. Basically Mortimer – a bloke on the internet – HYUFD – another bloke on the internet – and some reactionaries in the Tory party have decided that ending the free movement of furinners is some sort of incontrovertible golden principle. It is toilet of the lowest order.
    If your hero Blair had imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 as he could have done free movement would have been less of an issue
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    McDonnell is re-ambiguating ( if that's a word ) the Labour position on the referendum after Starmer got involved. "We're keeping all options on the table".

    The Labour Party will debate this tomorrow, & the McDonnell/Mcluskey Brexiteer plan will come under even more pressure.

    Treading an interesting line at the moment, but I'd bet obfuscating things just enough will work out.
    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    Mr Jack seems positively enthusiastic about the plan, or at least the summary makes it seem that way.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
    It's more that sanctions against Hungary are none of our business. We have no quarrel with them.
    This depends if you believe that the government has no quarrel with anti-democratic forces, and indeed whether it's happy to identify Brexit with antidemocratic forces - which it appears to be, in seeking, and receiving, the support of Orban.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Anorak said:
    Presumably under a Corbyn government 'Why we all vote Labour' and 'Equality and Diversity and Tory elimination' will be added to the curriculum?
  • Alistair said:
    Looks like he has gone into the White House, with media saying he is planning to resign. So Axios may have got ahead of itself.
  • NYT saying Rosenstein is "expected to leave"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    The last teacher that appeared at Conservative Conference got fired for her troubles.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8068427/Teacher-loses-job-after-exposing-failures-in-our-schools.html
  • "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    edited September 2018

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
    It's more that sanctions against Hungary are none of our business. We have no quarrel with them.
    This depends if you believe that the government has no quarrel with anti-democratic forces, and indeed whether it's happy to identify Brexit with antidemocratic forces - which it appears to be, in seeking, and receiving, the support of Orban.
    There are plenty of undemocratic governments with whom we have no quarrel.
  • HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:
    Presumably under a Corbyn government 'Why we all vote Labour' and 'Equality and Diversity and Tory elimination' will be added to the curriculum?
    Says he is from Aberconwy. A Tory seat.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
  • "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.

    That will get quite expensive in all the unfair dismissal settlements if nothing else...
  • HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:
    Presumably under a Corbyn government 'Why we all vote Labour' and 'Equality and Diversity and Tory elimination' will be added to the curriculum?
    Says he is from Aberconwy. A Tory seat.
    Wales labour look after education in Wales and there is already a strong left wing element in the common rooms. And Aberconwy is my constituency
  • Mr. Eagles, just checked my own. There are two I can't see (the search dates only go back a few months, but you can go further by checking the open bets part of the bet slip). Both were on Harris, made 18 January 2017. It's possible they're still there but just can't be seen (of course, it'd be rather more sensible if you could just get a complete list of unsettled bets). I'm going to send an e-mail to enquire about this.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
    It's more that sanctions against Hungary are none of our business. We have no quarrel with them.
    This depends if you believe that the government has no quarrel with anti-democratic forces, and indeed whether it's happy to identify Brexit with antidemocratic forces - which it appears to be, in seeking, and receiving, the support of Orban.
    There are plenty of undemocratic governments with whom we have no quarrel.
    So if you're happy to see the European arena as simply an extension of the global arena of realpolitik, with no democratic necessities, presumably you'll be happy for other Europeans to see Brexit as part of a publicly anti-democratic process, and accept the results of that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469

    Hi everyone. Just as an update, my operation was a success but I’m still in the hospital. Hopefully they will let me go home soon. Thanks for all your kind words prior!

    Once you’re out of hospital I’ll do a thread on AV in your honour.

    How’s that for an incentive.
    Perhaps there could be a thread on whether the enzymes in pineapple can assist with the digestion of grilled cheese on round bread, in case @Gallowgate is on a restricted diet.
    Funnily enough, I am allowed copious amounts of bread and cheese, but not pineapple!

    I also an now the proud owner of a temporary ileostomy bag so now have an important stake in making sure the supplies can be imported post Brexit. :neutral:
  • Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    "If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).

    If there is ‘no deal’ with the EU, airlines wishing to operate flights between the UK and the EU would have to seek individual permissions to operate from the respective states (be that the UK or an EU country). In this scenario the UK would envisage granting permission to EU airlines to continue to operate. We would expect EU countries to reciprocate in turn. It would not be in the interest of any EU country or the UK to restrict the choice of destinations that could be served, though, if such permissions are not granted, there could be disruption to some flights."
    (my bold)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal
  • I suspect the pressure will grow for a Norway deal with some nod to immigration.

    Above all else I would expect that to clear the HOC fairly easily despite the ERG objecting
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018

    "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.

    That will get quite expensive in all the unfair dismissal settlements if nothing else...
    And leave a load of companies without any leadership for at best several months. But up the werkers and all that.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    In fairness to the teaching assistant his thought is probably more along the lines that adults who had a good education wouldn't turn into Tory voters rather than they should be taught not to vote Tory. Sort of a mean point it could be said but I have heard the point made the opposite way at times.

    Basically people often put their political opponents down as morally or mentally deficient, this guy feels a good education would overcome these things.
  • Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    It's basically saying: we would act like responsible adults and would expect the rest of Europe to do the same but we can't guarantee that they will.
  • "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.

    That will get quite expensive in all the unfair dismissal settlements if nothing else...
    And leave a load of companies without any leadership for at best several months.
    All this state intervention comes across the buffers when you ask if you trust McDonnell and Len McCluskey to run businesses
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    "If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).

    If there is ‘no deal’ with the EU, airlines wishing to operate flights between the UK and the EU would have to seek individual permissions to operate from the respective states (be that the UK or an EU country). In this scenario the UK would envisage granting permission to EU airlines to continue to operate. We would expect EU countries to reciprocate in turn. It would not be in the interest of any EU country or the UK to restrict the choice of destinations that could be served, though, if such permissions are not granted, there could be disruption to some flights."
    (my bold)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

    That’s in line with what was expected on the trade side of aviation.

    The biggest takeaway from those paragraphs is that Ryanair get banned from operating in the UK unless a deal on aviation is agreed. They have an Irish AOC and operate Irish registered planes. EasyJet (a British company) have set up a subsidiary in the EU to cover for this eventuality.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
  • Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    It's basically saying: we would act like responsible adults and would expect the rest of Europe to do the same but we can't guarantee that they will.
    Naive in this climate
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    It's basically saying: we would act like responsible adults and would expect the rest of Europe to do the same but we can't guarantee that they will.
    Indeed. Back to good faith again.
  • Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    It's basically saying: we would act like responsible adults and would expect the rest of Europe to do the same but we can't guarantee that they will.
    Naive in this climate
    Precisely.

    And even if they do, will it all happen by end of March?
  • I suspect the pressure will grow for a Norway deal with some nod to immigration.

    Above all else I would expect that to clear the HOC fairly easily despite the ERG objecting

    The EU, however, is simply not going to compromise on immigration. A Norway deal will only pass as just that - like Norway - and the Tory grassroots will never accept it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    Well this is a life long Marxist suggestiing this, so I think we all know where it will go if he gets his way.

    Also it is a big tax grab by government under the cover of up the werkers.

    Encouraging businesses to offer genuine share schemes is a totally different kettle of fish and for the right time of businesses at the right time a good thing.
  • Sandpit said:

    matt said:

    Ignoring the content of what he is saying for just a moment...

    If he really is a teacher, why isn't he in the classroom today? Time off to attend a party conference - not allowed according to all the teachers I know

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1044239128236298240

    And having seen this, would any parent want him teaching when he is clearly intent on indoctrination rather than a rounded education.

    This sort of thinking renders someone unfit to be a teacher.

    If he’s a union delegate then he’d be allowed to attend a few events like this.

    But teachers like most of us are allowed to take (unpaid) holiday.
    Teaching union conferences are scheduled during holidays so that they don't impact on teaching time.

    But attending a party conference is not the same thing as attending your own union event.

    Teachers need a really good reason to take time off in term. He must have a very, very understanding Head to allow this.
    Looking further into this, he isn't a teacher (thankfully), he is a teaching assistant. And so not in charge of a class. Also explains why he is more able to take time off.
    And maybe stay off
    So anybody who has a job isn't allowed to attend a party conference? Let's hope no one of working age attend the Tory shindig.
    There are certain jobs where one gets, in short, a metric f-tonne of holiday. There is a quid pro quo to that.
    As I say, let's hope any teacher that attends the Tory conference gets the same treatment on here.
    The last teacher that appeared at Conservative Conference got fired for her troubles.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8068427/Teacher-loses-job-after-exposing-failures-in-our-schools.html
    "In her presentation to the Tory conference, Miss Birbalsingh said that teachers failed to speak out about problems in the education system because they were frightened of being fired."

    How dare you say that? You're fired.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    In fairness to the teaching assistant his thought is probably more along the lines that adults who had a good education wouldn't turn into Tory voters rather than they should be taught not to vote Tory. Sort of a mean point it could be said but I have heard the point made the opposite way at times.

    Basically people often put their political opponents down as morally or mentally deficient, this guy feels a good education would overcome these things.

    I don't really see how that is 'in fairness' to the guy. It is an old standby that sides claim the other must be stupid or immoral (the former seems more commonly used by the right for the left, and vice versa, but you certainly see the reverse too) but it is still an insulting, silly thing for him to think.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    "If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).

    If there is ‘no deal’ with the EU, airlines wishing to operate flights between the UK and the EU would have to seek individual permissions to operate from the respective states (be that the UK or an EU country). In this scenario the UK would envisage granting permission to EU airlines to continue to operate. We would expect EU countries to reciprocate in turn. It would not be in the interest of any EU country or the UK to restrict the choice of destinations that could be served, though, if such permissions are not granted, there could be disruption to some flights."
    (my bold)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

    That’s in line with what was expected on the trade side of aviation.

    The biggest takeaway from those paragraphs is that Ryanair get banned from operating in the UK unless a deal on aviation is agreed. They have an Irish AOC and operate Irish registered planes. EasyJet (a British company) have set up a subsidiary in the EU to cover for this eventuality.
    Wizz Air have a brand new UK subsidiary with it's own IATA code.
  • I suspect the pressure will grow for a Norway deal with some nod to immigration.

    Above all else I would expect that to clear the HOC fairly easily despite the ERG objecting

    The EU, however, is simply not going to compromise on immigration. A Norway deal will only pass as just that - like Norway - and the Tory grassroots will never accept it.
    You have no idea in a negotiation what may happen. I would suggest you may want to remain.
  • I suspect the pressure will grow for a Norway deal with some nod to immigration.

    Above all else I would expect that to clear the HOC fairly easily despite the ERG objecting

    Yes, but May will have to go. To me it looks like she is so stubborn she will take Chequers or No Deal and nothing else.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    The Tory antisemitism crisis continues ... when will May get a grip ?

    "Hungarian PM Viktor Orban thanks Tory MEPs who voted against sanctions"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/24/hungarian-pm-viktor-orban-thanks-uk-tory-meps-who-voted-against-sanctions

    What dog do we have in this fight?
    I suppose the Tories' dog is reinforcing an ally, as mentioned below. This Illustrates what a sad situation the government has found itself in, if the only viable political ally across the whole of the European continent is a publicly confirmed antisemite and anti-democrat.
    It's more that sanctions against Hungary are none of our business. We have no quarrel with them.
    This depends if you believe that the government has no quarrel with anti-democratic forces, and indeed whether it's happy to identify Brexit with antidemocratic forces - which it appears to be, in seeking, and receiving, the support of Orban.
    We should all have problems when political parties or religious groups adopt a them-and-us policy to differentiate their supporters/believers from others. When those supporters justify violence to achieve that differentiation they have gone over the line and must be actively opposed in any sane society.

    Thus when the right use race as a differentiator, they slip to fascism when they use violence or the threat of violence against 'them'. Likewise when the left use wealth/property as a differentiator, they slip to... well, I'm not sure of the name there. I suspect we know it when we see it.

    For years we have been used to seeing the BNP / EDL being over that line on the right. Now we see elements on the left getting very close. The problem is that they are doing so within the Labour Party and are thus de-facto closer to the levers of power. Thus I find Labour scarier than UKIP or the right edge of the Conservative party. Many of you may disagree, but that's my view.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    edited September 2018
    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Oh sure - though I imagine he'll probably try some anti-avoidance measures so that companies under the same ownership are grouped together for the purposes of what he's doing.

    It's also bound to lead to a massive increase in outsourcing.
  • MikeL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Oh sure - though I imagine he'll probably try some anti-avoidance measures so that companies under the same ownership are grouped together for the purposes of what he's doing.

    It's also bound to lead to a massive increase in outsourcing.
    And a lot of court cases
  • Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
    And what happens to those in companies with less than 250 employees and the public sector.

    Not a good idea to promote a scheme for the few not the many
  • Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1044253645137735685
  • How are these 10% of shares going to be obtained? New Rights Issue?
  • In fairness to the teaching assistant his thought is probably more along the lines that adults who had a good education wouldn't turn into Tory voters rather than they should be taught not to vote Tory. Sort of a mean point it could be said but I have heard the point made the opposite way at times.

    Basically people often put their political opponents down as morally or mentally deficient, this guy feels a good education would overcome these things.

    Apparently the teaching assistant included the words "and we'll have much less problems in our NHS" in his speech. Back to school for him.
  • Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1044253645137735685
    Given that the public has not had the chance to look at these proposals in any detail, let alone fully understand them, this sort of polling is meaningless
  • MikeL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Oh sure - though I imagine he'll probably try some anti-avoidance measures so that companies under the same ownership are grouped together for the purposes of what he's doing.

    It's also bound to lead to a massive increase in outsourcing.
    And then you just have the UK company with employees but basically no assets and pay no dividends, with the holding companies based elsewhere. That is what Starbucks already does with transfer pricing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Aviation impact document. Sounds a bit fingers crossed to me:

    "If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no agreement in place, UK and EU licensed airlines would lose the automatic right to operate air services between the UK and the EU without seeking advance permission. This would mean that airlines operating between the UK and the EU would need to seek individual permissions to operate. EU-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate wholly within the UK (for example from Heathrow to Edinburgh) and UK-licensed airlines would lose the ability to operate intra-EU air services (for example from Milan to Paris).

    If there is ‘no deal’ with the EU, airlines wishing to operate flights between the UK and the EU would have to seek individual permissions to operate from the respective states (be that the UK or an EU country). In this scenario the UK would envisage granting permission to EU airlines to continue to operate. We would expect EU countries to reciprocate in turn. It would not be in the interest of any EU country or the UK to restrict the choice of destinations that could be served, though, if such permissions are not granted, there could be disruption to some flights."
    (my bold)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/flights-to-and-from-the-uk-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

    That’s in line with what was expected on the trade side of aviation.

    The biggest takeaway from those paragraphs is that Ryanair get banned from operating in the UK unless a deal on aviation is agreed. They have an Irish AOC and operate Irish registered planes. EasyJet (a British company) have set up a subsidiary in the EU to cover for this eventuality.
    Wizz Air have a brand new UK subsidiary with it's own IATA code.
    Didn’t know that. Thanks.

    I’ve a half-written thread header for submission, was waiting for today’s documents to finish it - they were expected a fortnight ago.

    The long and the short of it is that there’s massive potential for complete chaos, but sensible adults in a room could agree to most of what’s required in a day - if they wanted to be sensible about it.

    It’s also the sector which would have the largest immediate and direct impact on EU countries, which is focussing minds already as next summer’s holidays aren’t being booked.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018

    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1044253645137735685
    He only announced a few hours ago...it might well still be popular as people think £500 bonus here I come.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    edited September 2018

    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Anyone who thinks 250 staff or 10% is the long-term limit has never read a history of the far left.

    200...150...100...50...

    10%...12%...14%...16%...

    Venezuela!!
    The cat and mouse game would be hillarious. The end result is that every company would look like Uber with a base offshore and a bunch of self-employed contractors in the UK. And significantly less tax being paid.

    McDonnell is writing the next three years of Conservative broadcasts this week.
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1044253645137735685
    That’s a ridiculously loaded question, that bears no resemblance to the actual proposals.
    https://capx.co/the-trouble-with-labours-employee-share-plan/
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.

    That will get quite expensive in all the unfair dismissal settlements if nothing else...
    And leave a load of companies without any leadership for at best several months. But up the werkers and all that.
    In the circumstances I don’t think it will matter. Control will be clearly vested in the hands of ministers who will respond to the headlines of the day. One will just require administrators (competence a bonus but not desirable). The inherent virtue of working for the state and not a parasitic capitalist enterprise will ensure that service will always be excellent. As long as you phone before 4 on weekdays (3 on Fridays) and don’t bother at weekends.
  • MikeL said:

    Sandpit said:

    MikeL said:

    See link for BBC article re McDonnell's plans and in particular Simon Jack's analysis near the bottom.

    Surely there's a problem with Jack's analysis - Shell is a multinational company operating worldwide - McDonnell can't get his hands on operations outside UK.

    Surely UK employees will be employed by UK subsidiary and McDonnell will only be able to get his hands on (10%) of the UK subsidiary's shares.

    Ditto across the whole economy - UK subsidiaries of overseas parents won't even be listed.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621361

    More likely Shell will set up several subsidiary companies in the U.K. - none of whom will employ the required 250 staff. John McDonnell doesn’t have a clue how businesses work in the real world outside of his Marxist textbooks.
    Oh sure - though I imagine he'll probably try some anti-avoidance measures so that companies under the same ownership are grouped together for the purposes of what he's doing.

    It's also bound to lead to a massive increase in outsourcing.
    Great time to be a corporate lawyer
  • matt said:

    "He also announced that the water industry in England would be the first to be re-nationalised under Labour. Existing bosses would be fired and control handed to workers, local councils and customers, with new executives hired on reduced salaries."

    So you are going to go in and fire all the current bosses regardless of if they are good at their job or not.

    That will get quite expensive in all the unfair dismissal settlements if nothing else...
    And leave a load of companies without any leadership for at best several months. But up the werkers and all that.
    In the circumstances I don’t think it will matter. Control will be clearly vested in the hands of ministers who will respond to the headlines of the day. One will just require administrators (competence a bonus but not desirable). The inherent virtue of working for the state and not a parasitic capitalist enterprise will ensure that service will always be excellent. As long as you phone before 4 on weekdays (3 on Fridays) and don’t bother at weekends.
    If phoning them is anything like phoning my local council it will lead to an automated messaging service which will ask you to press loads of buttons and no matter what combination you press it ultimately gives the same advice: Check the website for details.
  • .

    I did, and you were whining that he shouldn't be allowed to take time off to spout his (admittedly unsavoury) views.

    I made both points - it is all there in pixels. And I stand by both.

    Teachers should be in the classroom not at a party conference. This is not a party political thing for me - it is a matter of priorities.

    Teachers need very good reasons to take time out during the school year. And most heads only allow it in extraordinary circumstances as it is a significant extra cost to them to provide supply teachers. I don't believe attending any party conference is a good enough reason.

    As it turns out and as I acknowledged, this individual is a teaching assistant and thus not bound by the same contractual obligations as a qualified teacher.
    Oh come on. There are lots of teachers on part-time contracts, often as part of a job-share. Mrs Capitano works 4 days a week as a head. One of her classes is shared by two teachers (one working 2 days, one working 3 days - and they work extraordinarily well together). Plus plenty of schools have TOIL policies and so on.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    edited September 2018
    I wonder whether McDonnell's plan is compatible with EU rules?

    It's also effectively nationalisation without compensation so is also going to run up against Human Rights legislation.
This discussion has been closed.