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  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I don't have time to check back, but has anyone mentioned this story from the FT?

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/306c4e48-2ffe-11e3-9eec-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz2hCtmcOZo

    "Brussels’ blueprint for European banking union has suffered a serious setback after the legal adviser to EU finance ministers concluded the proposed manner of centralising some powers to shut banks breached the law...

    While the legal service’s opinion is non-binding, its views can be decisive in debates. Most notable are its concerns over the creation and deployment of a joint resolution fund, particularly in the transition period when the pot is short of its €55bn target level.

    Such fundamental legal questions hanging over the proposal will add to fears that the eurozone will fail to agree terms on a central resolution system before the end of the year, throwing Brussels’ banking union plans into disarray.

    In a paragraph that will be important for the Commission, it adds that these powers can be exercised as long as “the legislator decides to involve in the exercise of those powers an institution of the EU vested with executive powers”.

    This suggests that the concerns can be overcome with a greater role for the Commission. However the solution may be unacceptable to member states, which have already voiced deep concerns about centralising these powers in Brussels."

    Whether or not some would like to sidestep it, the need for a renegotiation of EU treaties may be irresistible. This may have profound implications for the UK's relationship with the EU, and for David Cameron's proposals on the EU.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    TGOHF said:

    AEP suggesting that the new Fed lady will link QE to the jobs rate

    Sounds familiar..

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100025713/rejoice-the-yellen-fed-will-print-money-forever-to-create-jobs/

    "So there we have it. The next chairman of the Fed is going to track the labour participation rate"

    If the House ever get around to passing the appropriations to pay the people who are supposed to find out what the labour participation rate actually is...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Off topic - electoral roll

    If I wanted to see old copies of the electoral roll, from 2004, or 2007, would that be possible?

    Until 2000 anyone could look at the full electoral roll. But then some old fogey took umbrage at people being able to know where he lived and took it to court.
    But do copies of the electoral roll from past years exist? Are they archived by the local council?

    I think they are archived, yes, and available to look at. So before 2000 you can look at the full register, and since then the partial one.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Off topic - electoral roll

    If I wanted to see old copies of the electoral roll, from 2004, or 2007, would that be possible?

    Until 2000 anyone could look at the full electoral roll. But then some old fogey took umbrage at people being able to know where he lived and took it to court.
    But do copies of the electoral roll from past years exist? Are they archived by the local council?

    I think they are archived, yes, and available to look at. So before 2000 you can look at the full register, and since then the partial one.
    Thanks. :)

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    edited October 2013
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    On the Green Taxes on electricity bills.

    One argument has been that by increasing renewables, and reducing energy demand, one reduces the use of gas and coal, and so reduces our exposure to world fossil fuel prices, that have been increasing as North Sea reserves are depleted and demand from Asia increases.

    Analysis suggests that fuel bills will consequently be lower than if we had done nothing and simply burned more fossil fuels. I note that wind is currently contributing more than 10% of grid demand.

    It would have been better to pay for this through general taxation than as a levy on fuel bills - this is typical Brownite messing about, to load extra taxes on fuel bills and then give pensioners a winter fuel allowance. It would be typical Tory wrecking of Britain's future to scrap them altogether, and leave us reliant on the world market in fossil fuels.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    dr_spyn said:
    Well, you've got to hand it to Sean, he can generate traffic for his paymaster.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,477
    tim said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul
    "It's not about the money it's about the message": Cam at #PMQs on marriage tax break.

    And the twit can't get either right.

    Well, the main message which seems to be coming across is that the Tories are in favour of helping married couples whereas Labour doesn't want to help them.

    Not sure that's a winning argument for Labour, TBH.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/


    "1200 died in Mid Staffs alone"

    Even from the PB Tory stats geniuses that ones a corker.

    Although I see deaths in Iraq have fallen from the million you used to tout on here
    Why not write a whiny begging letter to the Barclay brothers and see if they'll give you your own column?

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Brilliant sean - lol

    When mentioning Afghanistan,you could have added john 'without a shot being fired' Reid

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Brilliant sean - lol

    When mentioning Afghanistan,you could have added john 'without a shot being fired' Reid

    misrepresentation of his words but that's by the by.

    I want to see the reality show - Polly & Sean on a desert island together..

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Dan Hodges' latest offering is arguably his worst ever (excluding those where he predicted defeat for Andy Murray and victory for David Miliband)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    Did the IMF speak too soon? Did Osbo bray too much?
    Suddenly a massive fall in British industrial production!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24455710

    Not to the extent of the fall. 1.1%
    Mor than 1.1% of people go on holiday in August, it's the holidays

    And only the tiniest percentage of those work in manufacturing. Do grow up, but can't stop being tim, can you?
  • tim said:

    @Avery.

    So we agree, govt borrowing is rising, spending is rising, and all other areas of the economy have undershot for three years following a collapse in confidence in summer 2010.

    Just one question.

    Why did George boast about establishing growth for so long?

    Tim you seem, wilfully, convinced that the economy overall is doing badly. No doubt entirely the fault of the poison porpoise or whatever you latest bizarre private nickname is for the chancellor. Why then do you think Ed never wants to raise the economic issue?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    tim said:

    john_zims said:

    @Tim

    And the New Labour idiots told us there were only 13,000 immigrants that would come to the UK from Eastern Europe,only 2 million out.


    2 Million Eastern Europeans in the UK, I know you're clueless but really, don't just make stuff up - that's my job
    Fixed it for you
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @SeanT - great fun & happy memories of 1066 and all that!

    War with Zulus. Cause: the Zulus. Zulus exterminated. Peace with Zulus.......

    Do you think the role of the Lib Dems in the coalition merits review?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    The interesting dynamic, as pointed out on DP is the cost of living/macro-economic dynamic.

    Will people, come 2015, say

    a) the economy is doing better, I'm not, but I trust the guys running the economy so I need to be patient; or
    b) the economy is doing better, I'm not - time for a change?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Xlibris1 @Xlibris1
    Conservative Party writes to standards watchdog to investigate 23 Labour MPs for failure to disclose Union money ...gu.com/p/3jc2g/tw
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    IIUC the theory is that the energy companies are making bigger profits than they need to to provide the service because the market isn't competitive enough, so you can fix the prices and they'll still have attractive enough profits to make them sell people energy. Then once you've reformed the market to be properly competitive (which optimistically takes two years) profits and prices will drop naturally so you won't need to fix them any more.

    I don't think the premise is true, but if it was the logic of the rest would work.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    SeanT says that:
    1,200 died in Mid-Staffordshire Hospital alone, that’s more than died in Mid-Staffordshire during the Black Death.
    This is a striking comparison, but is it true?

    Mid-Staffordshire used to be represented by a Parliamentary Constituency, so it is reasonable to assume that the current population is approximately 100,000, out of a total English population of 53 million.

    The population of England before the Black Death is estimated to be around 6 million, making it about one-ninth of the present population, so a reasonable estimate for the population of Mid-Staffordshire in 1346 would be about 11,000.

    Mortality estimates for the Black Death vary, but about 40% lies in the middle of the generally accepted range. Thus a very approximate estimate of the death toll due to the Black Death in Mid-Staffordshire is in the region of 4,500, comfortably in excess of the 1,200 poor souls slaughtered at the hands of Blairite incompetence in Mid-Staffs.
  • SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Good, well-balanced stuff. You were generous to gloss over Tripartite Regulation and electricity generation and the Rural Payments Agency and the NHS Database and HIPs and ... it's a long list.
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    So we agree, govt borrowing is rising, spending is rising, and all other areas of the economy have undershot for three years following a collapse in confidence in summer 2010.

    Just one question.

    Why did George boast about establishing growth for so long?

    Tim you seem, wilfully, convinced that the economy overall is doing badly. No doubt entirely the fault of the poison porpoise or whatever you latest bizarre private nickname is for the chancellor. Why then do you think Ed never wants to raise the economic issue?
    Both front benches are busy pretending Osborne is practising austerity rather than spending/borrowing/pumping up a bubble, thats why, its a fake debate.

    So Labour are just pretending? How utterly bizarre, surely they'll want to be able to say I told you so when it all inevitably goes wrong.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,990
    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    Exactly how Ed will accelerate the adoption of renewables, keep the lights on, change the regulator, break up the big energy companies, massively increase energy generation investment, and freeze prices is going to be very interesting to see. I hope he has top people working on this, but I fear it might be one of Ed Balls's bright ideas.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    For anyone interested in what our troops have been through in Afghanistan I would heartily recommend "Dead men risen" by Toby Harnden.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    LOL

    "To try and get the message across, [EdM's] office started to put out what is known in the trade as a line-to-take. This initially involved telling people that not only had no one even been slightly culled, no one had even been demoted. My friend and colleague John McTernan responded to Jim Murphy being dumped out of his defence portfolio to overseas aid by tweeting “Not a demotion. Having neutralised Defence, Jim Murphy will now mobilise churches, charities and NGOs in crucial area”. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100240618/ed-miliband-and-the-strange-case-of-the-vanishing-blairites/
  • glw said:

    Exactly how Ed will accelerate the adoption of renewables, keep the lights on, change the regulator, break up the big energy companies, massively increase energy generation investment, and freeze prices is going to be very interesting to see. I hope he has top people working on this, but I fear it might be one of Ed Balls's bright ideas.

    No, to be fair, there were reports that Ed Balls thought the Miliband energy gimmick was as barmy as every other informed commentator thought.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Plato said:

    LOL

    "To try and get the message across, [EdM's] office started to put out what is known in the trade as a line-to-take. This initially involved telling people that not only had no one even been slightly culled, no one had even been demoted. My friend and colleague John McTernan responded to Jim Murphy being dumped out of his defence portfolio to overseas aid by tweeting “Not a demotion. Having neutralised Defence, Jim Murphy will now mobilise churches, charities and NGOs in crucial area”. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100240618/ed-miliband-and-the-strange-case-of-the-vanishing-blairites/

    Dear Ed,

    Look Jim Murphy in the eye and tell him he's not been demoted.

    I dare you.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    So we agree, govt borrowing is rising, spending is rising, and all other areas of the economy have undershot for three years following a collapse in confidence in summer 2010.

    Just one question.

    Why did George boast about establishing growth for so long?

    Tim you seem, wilfully, convinced that the economy overall is doing badly. No doubt entirely the fault of the poison porpoise or whatever you latest bizarre private nickname is for the chancellor. Why then do you think Ed never wants to raise the economic issue?
    Both front benches are busy pretending Osborne is practising austerity rather than spending/borrowing/pumping up a bubble, thats why, its a fake debate.

    That's way out there when it comes to explaining Labour's silence on the issue.

    10/10 on the Baker scale.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Could be fun tomorrow:

    "Leveson's refusal to expand further on his report sets him up for a potential clash with MPs on the Commons culture, media and sport select committee when he gives evidence on Thursday morning.

    Speaking immediately after Leveson's appearance before the peers, the Commons committee chairman John Whittingdale said he and his colleagues had no intention of allowing the judge to duck their questions.

    "The committee will give him a pretty hard time, the royal charter will be first up. It's not in his report and yet we are arguing the merits and demerits of it and it is not something he envisaged in his report. It would be quite helpful to know what he thought," he said."


    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/oct/09/lord-justice-leveson-mps-press-regulation
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Do you judge the worst government by general incompetence or by malign effects caused? Incompetent governments are usually too inept to cause really major problems: true devastation can usually only be created by governments with a certain organisational skill.

    The single greatest avoidable catastrophe of the last 100 years was the First World War, and it signalled the end of Britain as a hegemonic power. The Liberal government in power at the time of Britain's entry into the First World War has a fair claim to having the greatest talent of any Cabinet in that period.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    SeanT says that:

    1,200 died in Mid-Staffordshire Hospital alone, that’s more than died in Mid-Staffordshire during the Black Death.
    This is a striking comparison, but is it true?

    Mid-Staffordshire used to be represented by a Parliamentary Constituency, so it is reasonable to assume that the current population is approximately 100,000, out of a total English population of 53 million.

    The population of England before the Black Death is estimated to be around 6 million, making it about one-ninth of the present population, so a reasonable estimate for the population of Mid-Staffordshire in 1346 would be about 11,000.

    Mortality estimates for the Black Death vary, but about 40% lies in the middle of the generally accepted range. Thus a very approximate estimate of the death toll due to the Black Death in Mid-Staffordshire is in the region of 4,500, comfortably in excess of the 1,200 poor souls slaughtered at the hands of Blairite incompetence in Mid-Staffs.

    Black death rates varied throughout the country. Some small towns and districts were wiped out to a man; others were barely touched. I don't know the rates for the first two years of the Black Death (1348/49) for Staffordshire, but it is entirely possible that large areas escaped with few victims.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @Brendan__Miller: Thursday on #bbcqt: @joswinson, @HackneyAbbott, @AdamAfriyie, @MatthewParris3 & @sarahchurchwell 10:35pm BBC One < OMG
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Good, well-balanced stuff. You were generous to gloss over Tripartite Regulation and electricity generation and the Rural Payments Agency and the NHS Database and HIPs and ... it's a long list.

    The triumph of Prescott's Pathfinder scheme should also not be ignored...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    glw said:

    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    Exactly how Ed will accelerate the adoption of renewables, keep the lights on, change the regulator, break up the big energy companies, massively increase energy generation investment, and freeze prices is going to be very interesting to see. I hope he has top people working on this, but I fear it might be one of Ed Balls's bright ideas.
    I think that in politics that is known as a nice sort of problem to have.

    If Miliband ever gets to the point of having to worry about how to reconcile all of those things he will be Prime Minister - which for modern day politicians is the point of it all.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    glw said:

    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    Exactly how Ed will accelerate the adoption of renewables, keep the lights on, change the regulator, break up the big energy companies, massively increase energy generation investment, and freeze prices is going to be very interesting to see. I hope he has top people working on this, but I fear it might be one of Ed Balls's bright ideas.
    Basically the plan is for a big, Thatcherite liberalization of the energy market. The current government is sort-of moving in that direction too, but wouldn't dare propose anything that right-wing. Miliband has got this past the base by distracting them with an incredibly minor short-term pricing gimmick.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I thought it was his integrated transport policy myself...
    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Good, well-balanced stuff. You were generous to gloss over Tripartite Regulation and electricity generation and the Rural Payments Agency and the NHS Database and HIPs and ... it's a long list.

    The triumph of Prescott's Pathfinder scheme should also not be ignored...
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Update. Thanks to Alex Doel ‏for a more succinct definition: “Blairite n. an individual who stubbornly refuses to make the Labour Party unelectable.”

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/10/09/what-is-a-blairite/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Avery.

    So we agree, govt borrowing is rising, spending is rising, and all other areas of the economy have undershot for three years following a collapse in confidence in summer 2010.

    Just one question.

    Why did George boast about establishing growth for so long?

    Tim you seem, wilfully, convinced that the economy overall is doing badly. No doubt entirely the fault of the poison porpoise or whatever you latest bizarre private nickname is for the chancellor. Why then do you think Ed never wants to raise the economic issue?
    Both front benches are busy pretending Osborne is practising austerity rather than spending/borrowing/pumping up a bubble, thats why, its a fake debate.

    So Labour are just pretending? How utterly bizarre, surely they'll want to be able to say I told you so when it all inevitably goes wrong.
    Both sides got their tactics wrong in 2010.

    Osborne claimed he'd cut spending and establish growth, patent nonsense,as was shown, his incompetent austerity led to the rise in borrowing and spending we are seeing now in the fourth year of the parliament.

    Labour criticised austerity assuming that Osborne would be competent enough to cut when it was blindingly obvious that he was clueless.

    Osborne was talking to the markets. It was a critical moment for sovereign risk. He had to talk dry and drink sweet as, ahem, they say.

    Today the UK 10-yr rate is only marginally worse than France, Belgium, NL.

    I don't think he has been the perfect chancellor but Lab refused then and still refuses to believe the markets are a critical factor; in 2010 they might have added a couple of hundred basis points to our borrowing costs which would of course have been catastrophic.

    Both parties would have spent more or less as events transpired but only the Cons understood, or could tell their supporters, that the markets were critical.
  • Plato said:

    I thought it was his integrated transport policy myself...

    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Good, well-balanced stuff. You were generous to gloss over Tripartite Regulation and electricity generation and the Rural Payments Agency and the NHS Database and HIPs and ... it's a long list.

    The triumph of Prescott's Pathfinder scheme should also not be ignored...
    The list is long, Lord Prescott's contributions to the list deserve a whole chapter.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    JonathanD said:

    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Good, well-balanced stuff. You were generous to gloss over Tripartite Regulation and electricity generation and the Rural Payments Agency and the NHS Database and HIPs and ... it's a long list.

    The triumph of Prescott's Pathfinder scheme should also not be ignored...
    Just think how bad things could have been, if he hadn't been so busy 'liasing' with his staff on Ugandan issues.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,847

    glw said:

    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    Exactly how Ed will accelerate the adoption of renewables, keep the lights on, change the regulator, break up the big energy companies, massively increase energy generation investment, and freeze prices is going to be very interesting to see. I hope he has top people working on this, but I fear it might be one of Ed Balls's bright ideas.
    Basically the plan is for a big, Thatcherite liberalization of the energy market. The current government is sort-of moving in that direction too, but wouldn't dare propose anything that right-wing. Miliband has got this past the base by distracting them with an incredibly minor short-term pricing gimmick.
    "Basically the plan is for a big, Thatcherite liberalization of the energy market. "

    Where on earth do you get that from?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    MikeK said:

    SeanT says that:

    1,200 died in Mid-Staffordshire Hospital alone, that’s more than died in Mid-Staffordshire during the Black Death.
    This is a striking comparison, but is it true?

    Mid-Staffordshire used to be represented by a Parliamentary Constituency, so it is reasonable to assume that the current population is approximately 100,000, out of a total English population of 53 million.

    The population of England before the Black Death is estimated to be around 6 million, making it about one-ninth of the present population, so a reasonable estimate for the population of Mid-Staffordshire in 1346 would be about 11,000.

    Mortality estimates for the Black Death vary, but about 40% lies in the middle of the generally accepted range. Thus a very approximate estimate of the death toll due to the Black Death in Mid-Staffordshire is in the region of 4,500, comfortably in excess of the 1,200 poor souls slaughtered at the hands of Blairite incompetence in Mid-Staffs.
    Black death rates varied throughout the country. Some small towns and districts were wiped out to a man; others were barely touched. I don't know the rates for the first two years of the Black Death (1348/49) for Staffordshire, but it is entirely possible that large areas escaped with few victims.Information is, of course, vague, but I did find these references to the effects of the Black Death on Staffordshire:
    The plague arrived in Staffordshire from the South West. It also spread along the River Trent quickly with Burton suffering badly.

    In the Archdeaconry of Stafford the first priest died in April 1349. Rents at Croxden and Hulton Abbeys halved which is an indicator of population loss.
    It would be a very cheap rhetorical trick if seant made the comparison to the Black Death with the knowledge that Staffordshire was largely spared by the Plague - I hope you are not making that accusation!
  • tim said:

    @TOPPING.

    Labours best strategy was always to attack Osbornes incompetence rather than austerity that was obviously never going to happen.

    The Omnishambles should tell you that, and now they'd be in a stronger position to explain why govt spending and borrowing are rising, because he hasn't a clue what he was doing.

    Business confidence and investment in summer 2010 collapsed when he went around shrieking about Greece, look at the OBR report today, thats a big chunk of the lost growth that has been lost from that exact point., hence the govt have had to spend hundreds of billions more.

    So you attribute rising business confidence solely to the Chancellor now I suppose? Seeing as he is clearly solely to blame when things go wrong? And as for business sentiment being as sensitive as you make out - risible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    tim said:

    @TOPPING.

    Labours best strategy was always to attack Osbornes incompetence rather than austerity that was obviously never going to happen.

    The Omnishambles should tell you that, and now they'd be in a stronger position to explain why govt spending and borrowing are rising, because he hasn't a clue what he was doing.

    Business confidence and investment in summer 2010 collapsed when he went around shrieking about Greece, look at the OBR report today, thats a big chunk of the lost growth that has been lost from that exact point., hence the govt have had to spend hundreds of billions more.

    Business confidence collapsed when Greece collapsed and there were significant scares about all euro-zone economies major and minor.

    Whatever Labour should or shouldn't have done they did attack austerity, which made them unelectable. I've never said that Osborne has played a perfect hand but you are looking at this in terms of Cons vs tim whereas it was actually Cons vs Labour.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709


    Basically the plan is for a big, Thatcherite liberalization of the energy market. The current government is sort-of moving in that direction too, but wouldn't dare propose anything that right-wing. Miliband has got this past the base by distracting them with an incredibly minor short-term pricing gimmick.

    "Basically the plan is for a big, Thatcherite liberalization of the energy market. "

    Where on earth do you get that from?
    I got it from listening to the actual proposals in the speeches instead of the applause lines, but Googling for a summary there's some good stuff on the specifics here:
    http://www.francisclark.co.uk/news-views/blog/labour-has-a-new-energy-policy-has-it-let-politics-disr/
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Interesting that the line market implies about a 3% swing to Labour. The Tories would still lead in the popular vote.

    Also this forecast is closer to Lebo & Norpoth than to current opinion polls...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Ole Jørgen Benedictow: The Black Death, 1346-1353: The Complete History - gives some information about spread of BD in Staffordshire along navigable rivers. Have a look via Amazon.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Off topic - electoral roll

    If I wanted to see old copies of the electoral roll, from 2004, or 2007, would that be possible?

    Your local library should have them. Mine has them going back 30+ years....
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    The Osborne ligature round the throat of the Tory Party tightens.

    Osborne's grip on the party now is only significant if Dave does well next time. You admitted yourself it won't amount to a hill of beans if Dave is slaughtered in 2015.

  • NextNext Posts: 826
    dr_spyn said:

    Ole Jørgen Benedictow: The Black Death, 1346-1353: The Complete History - gives some information about spread of BD in Staffordshire along navigable rivers. Have a look via Amazon.

    Only on PB, could a reading of SeanT's column have evolved into the precise numbers and locations of victims of the Black Death...
  • @tim - Odd that you didn't refer to the first three paragraphs of that article...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I live in the former Mid Staffs constituency and - oddly enough - the Mid Staffs hospital area doesn't cover the same area. The local hospitals for people here are Good Hope in Sutton Coldfield and Queen's Hospital, Burton-on-Trent, not Stafford hospital - thankfully.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,047
    SeanT

    "I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government."

    It's just so tedious and boring. Why don't you try writing sober?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2013
    Most people who've never been to Staffordshire probably think the entire county is a bit of an industrial wasteland.

    In fact, in the general area where I live a one bedroom flat costs almost as much as it does in London. The southern half of the county is very expensive in certain places.
  • TOPPING said:

    tim said:

    @TOPPING.

    Labours best strategy was always to attack Osbornes incompetence rather than austerity that was obviously never going to happen.

    The Omnishambles should tell you that, and now they'd be in a stronger position to explain why govt spending and borrowing are rising, because he hasn't a clue what he was doing.

    Business confidence and investment in summer 2010 collapsed when he went around shrieking about Greece, look at the OBR report today, thats a big chunk of the lost growth that has been lost from that exact point., hence the govt have had to spend hundreds of billions more.

    Business confidence collapsed when Greece collapsed and there were significant scares about all euro-zone economies major and minor.

    Whatever Labour should or shouldn't have done they did attack austerity, which made them unelectable. I've never said that Osborne has played a perfect hand but you are looking at this in terms of Cons vs tim whereas it was actually Cons vs Labour.
    Surely you don't belive tim will accept that external factors could have had any negative impact on the UK economy? External factors are only to blame when Labour preside over economic collapse, surely we all recognise that by now!

    The UK economy is solely driven by the word of George (only when it does badly of course!).
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    I rather liked @SeanT's final paragraph binding Labour with sociopolitical syphilis.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Diagnosis facilities in the 14th century would have at best been rudimentary so any figures of black death fatalities are going to be questionable.

    David Baddiel does an amusing routine around recorded causes of death in the 16 century that suggests practising knowledge of medicine was virtually non-existent.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    For Mr Dancer

    " In an interview with ITV on Monday night, David Cameron said he thinks voters enjoy Prime Minister’s Questions, because it’s “like the Coliseum” and they get to see “the Christians eaten by the lions”.

    Frankly I fear Mr Cameron overstates both the popularity of PMQs and its similarity to Roman entertainment. I am no expert in classical history but I find it hard to believe that events at the Coliseum two millennia ago bore any real resemblance to exchanges in the Commons today.

    Christian: “Mr Caesar! Can this lion confirm that oil lamp bills have gone up by 300 sestertii since it started eating my kidneys?”

    Lion: “Chomp.”

    Christian: “Mr Caesar, once again the lion has no answer to the cost of living crisis in this Empire, and so it simply swallows my large intestine.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10367015/PMQs-sketch-Enter-the-lion.html
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    taffys said:

    Diagnosis facilities in the 14th century would have at best been rudimentary so any figures of black death fatalities are going to be questionable.

    David Baddiel does an amusing routine around recorded causes of death in the 16 century that suggests practising knowledge of medicine was virtually non-existent.

    Sounds as if healthcare in Mid Staffs hasn't really advanced in 500 years.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    @tim

    So we agree

    We don't.

    govt borrowing is rising

    In real terms and, as a proportion to GDP, government borrowing has been lower in each year of this parliament than it was in each applicable prior year.

    Since the March publication date of the OBR's EFO, the ONS has, in addition, revised down borrowing for the 2012-13 fiscal year by £5.2 bn.

    Since the OBR April 2012 EFO, borrowing for the 2011-12 fiscal year has also been revised down a further £7.5 bn.

    government spending

    I accept that the 2013/14 budget provides for 4.24% increase in real terms government spending this fiscal year, but year to date figures (OBR Apr-Aug) show that total current expenditure, at £261.8 bn, has risen in nominal terms by 2.6% whereas Total Central Government receipts, at £236.5 bn, have increased in nominal terms by 8.4%.

    Due to reforms in the way central government funds local authorities introduced this year, local government spend is front loaded this year when compared to last. This would indicate that the current year to date difference between revenues and spend understates the underlying position and that year end figures will proportionately improve further rather than fall back. Such a prediction is further supported by the higher than forecast growth in Q2 and in current forecasts to fiscal year end.

    So it is looking far more probable than not that government spending will decrease in real terms this fiscal year even if it remains forecast to rise. Net Public Sector Borrowing will fall substantially this fiscal year.

    Why did George boast about establishing growth for so long?

    George has so much to boast about that is difficult to understand why he went on so much about establishing growth in 2010. Perhaps you upset him at the time with a remark on PB?

  • NextNext Posts: 826
    New Thread
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SeanT said:

    I've written a very even-handed, possibly over-cautious assessment of the last Labour government.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/seanthomas/100240679/exclusive-labour-1997-2010-was-the-worst-government-ever-and-this-is-why/

    Your best blog for the Telegraph to date. The subject perfectly suited to your style.

    Should go straight into the next edition of the Oxford Book of English Prose.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    IIUC the theory is that the energy companies are making bigger profits than they need to to provide the service because the market isn't competitive enough, so you can fix the prices and they'll still have attractive enough profits to make them sell people energy. Then once you've reformed the market to be properly competitive (which optimistically takes two years) profits and prices will drop naturally so you won't need to fix them any more.

    I don't think the premise is true, but if it was the logic of the rest would work.
    The competitiveness of an industry is not a matter which politicians should decide as a matter of political policy.

    The proper course of action is to refer the industry to a competent Competition Commission (EU or UK) and to base any reforms on its recommendations.

    This is why Cameron should pre-empt Miliband by referrring the household energy supply industry now, so that its recommendations would become available at the beginning of the next parliamentary term.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    AveryLP said:

    Financier said:

    How is EdM going to control energy prices (which is basically a global market outside of USA) without either reducing taxes or subsiding any global price increases? Also what prices of oil and gas will he use as his datum base?

    IIUC the theory is that the energy companies are making bigger profits than they need to to provide the service because the market isn't competitive enough, so you can fix the prices and they'll still have attractive enough profits to make them sell people energy. Then once you've reformed the market to be properly competitive (which optimistically takes two years) profits and prices will drop naturally so you won't need to fix them any more.

    I don't think the premise is true, but if it was the logic of the rest would work.
    The competitiveness of an industry is not a matter which politicians should decide as a matter of political policy.

    The proper course of action is to refer the industry to a competent Competition Commission (EU or UK) and to base any reforms on its recommendations.

    This is why Cameron should pre-empt Miliband by referrring the household energy supply industry now, so that its recommendations would become available at the beginning of the next parliamentary term.

    EIT's assumption is fine for a UK energy industry that is self-sufficient and is insulated from energy market forces, but as we know the UK energy industry relies heavily on imports for energy sources and so is not insulated from world market movements.
  • take out 40 labour MPs for independent Scotland and the Conservatives are clearly in pole position for the minority government
This discussion has been closed.