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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Just switched on Vince.

    Seems to be talking about replacing himself with a robot.

    Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

    A robot would have far more idea than Cable. If I was a lib dem I would despair

    I also do not understand why conference speeches are delivered in the afternoon rather than a sensible morning slot.
    Vince Cable was never, ever as good as Vince Cable thought he was.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Just switched on Vince.

    I think you should try turning him off and back on again....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Vince Cable was never, ever as good as Vince Cable thought he was.

    But he predicted 8 of the least 3 crashes...
  • What is the point of the Lib Dems? Explanation 9 is the best:
    “It’s basically just a drinking society for people who like politics,” someone told me. Like the Sealed Knot re-enacting battles without the danger of bloodshed, the Lib Dems re-enact politics without the danger of power.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/09/what-point-liberal-democrats

    Yet, strangely enough, the one time the Lib Dems were in government now seems like a halcyon period.
    It was a very good government. They should have told people so. (Not that it would have helped much - "the little party always gets smashed").
    My favourite thing about that article is its subheading - "To cement its identity in future coalitions, the party needs to own departments." Ah, for the optimism of 2014!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Damnit.

    I missed a ‘turning Japanese’ gag there.

    I really think so.
  • Good afternoon, my fellow neurotic chasms.
  • Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep
  • What is the point of the Lib Dems? Explanation 9 is the best:
    “It’s basically just a drinking society for people who like politics,” someone told me. Like the Sealed Knot re-enacting battles without the danger of bloodshed, the Lib Dems re-enact politics without the danger of power.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/09/what-point-liberal-democrats

    Yet, strangely enough, the one time the Lib Dems were in government now seems like a halcyon period.
    It was a very good government. They should have told people so. (Not that it would have helped much - "the little party always gets smashed").
    My favourite thing about that article is its subheading - "To cement its identity in future coalitions, the party needs to own departments." Ah, for the optimism of 2014!
    They should have done from the start. Picasso > Turquoise, as I remember discussing on here.
  • Labour figures set out 'Bolshevik' plan to restrict Tom Watson's power if Jeremy Corbyn resigns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/18/labour-figures-set-plan-restrict-tom-watsons-power-jeremy-corbyn/

    And what are the moderates going to do about this "Bolshevik" plot...absolutely sweet FA.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    They need a new leader now and to address the 52% worries.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Next PM nailed on after that. If only someone had tipped him at 100/1.

    His wife is Japanese isn’t she?

    No surprise to see him fluent in the lingo.

    Chinese .
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    Next PM nailed on after that. If only someone had tipped him at 100/1.

    His wife is Japanese isn’t she?

    No surprise to see him fluent in the lingo.

    She’s Chinese but on his recent visit to China he said she was Japanese.

    An easy mistake.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
  • Ed Davey looks fast asleep
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2018

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections

    [snip]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    As you rightly say, to get a majority the Dems need to win 8 out of the 10 competitive races (including TN and TX as competitive).

    If those were independent events each with a 75% chance of coming good for them, that just pips a 50% probability overall (52.56% according to my calculations). OK, they are not independent, but the nationwide swing to the Dems is already in the pundits' subjective assessments and state-wide polling, so I think you are overstating it. Nate Silver's current statistical model shows a 32.5% chance, which looks realistic to me.
  • JohnO said:

    Next PM nailed on after that. If only someone had tipped him at 100/1.

    His wife is Japanese isn’t she?

    No surprise to see him fluent in the lingo.

    She’s Chinese but on his recent visit to China he said she was Japanese.

    An easy mistake.
    If he can’t get it right what chance have I?
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    One needs PR to fragment.
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    Maybe but more worrying would be the rise of the hard right
  • Labour figures set out 'Bolshevik' plan to restrict Tom Watson's power if Jeremy Corbyn resigns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/18/labour-figures-set-plan-restrict-tom-watsons-power-jeremy-corbyn/

    And what are the moderates going to do about this "Bolshevik" plot...absolutely sweet FA.

    It's all about democracy innit guv? Power to the people an' all that. Up the Revolution!

    *wanders off whistling The Red Flag whilst imitating Citizen Smith*
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    That's a lot of ifs....
  • Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    One needs PR to fragment.
    Not necessarily. Regional fragmentation à la the SNP and Northern Irish parties can also happen.
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    That's a lot of ifs....
    Avec des "si", on mettrait Paris en bouteille...
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.
  • Former Chancellor of Austria. Shocking stuff if so, even more so in today's circumstances than Gerhard Schröder doing the same.
    https://twitter.com/lahoare/status/1042058120162357249
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Afternoon all :)

    The financial crisis in local Government gets closer to home for Messrs Hammond, Hunt and Gove (among others):

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-45552324

  • Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    Me too, to be fair.
  • Londoners are arrogant and insular according to a new You Gov report

    Hard to argue with that
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Who?
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    That's a lot of ifs....
    And the Greens would actually have to offer something to pick up support.

    Their lack of impact has been compounded by their lacklustre new leadership team.

    Plus they are not without internal issues that are causing them to look inwards - such as Trans rights, not paying both joint leaders equally and their own antisemitic fringe.

    Caroline Lucas alternating between being angry and being earnest is hardly reason to switch to them at the moment.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    tpfkar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Who?
    Anyone with a bit more energy, such as Layla Moran or Jo Swinson.
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

  • Londoners are arrogant and insular according to a new You Gov report

    Hard to argue with that

    According to provincials.

    And what do those idiots know?
  • AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    And Labour on 30%.....
    If politics weren't so polarised by Brexit as well as anti-Tory and anti-Labour voting, you could easily imagine fragmentation as in other European countries, with the Greens also picking up support.
    That's a lot of ifs....
    And the Greens would actually have to offer something to pick up support.

    Their lack of impact has been compounded by their lacklustre new leadership team.

    Plus they are not without internal issues that are causing them to look inwards - such as Trans rights, not paying both joint leaders equally and their own antisemitic fringe.

    Caroline Lucas alternating between being angry and being earnest is hardly reason to switch to them at the moment.
    It was very much a hypothetical comment. :)
  • Londoners are arrogant and insular according to a new You Gov report

    Hard to argue with that

    According to provincials.

    And what do those idiots know?
    I thought you were a provincial now??
  • Londoners are arrogant and insular according to a new You Gov report

    Hard to argue with that

    According to provincials.

    And what do those idiots know?
    I thought you were a provincial now??
    I've got a foot in both camps for a few more weeks/months, depending on how my flat sale goes. I reserve the right to be rude about everyone (so no change there then).
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    Of course meme's like that will soon be illegal under the latest barmy EU law...
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    Yes, but not clear whether the manoeuvres are aimed at making John McDonnell leader, or someone else to carry the true flame. Maybe he hasn't decided yet.
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    An even more dangerous prospect for the nation.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Londoners are arrogant and insular according to a new You Gov report

    Hard to argue with that

    I wonder what percentage of Londoners have visited other places in the UK, compared to the percentage of non-Londoners who've visited London.
  • AndyJS said:

    tpfkar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Who?
    Anyone with a bit more energy, such as Layla Moran or Jo Swinson.
    They are hardly dynamic. Mind you one of the White Walkers from Game of Thrones is more dynamic than Vince.
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    But Nick Palmer has repeatedly assured us that he wouldn't move against Corbyn or seek the leadership.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Great. We’ll have all the Irish-passported tax-efficient private equity barons and not the Eastern European big issue sales reps please.

    Oh? You didn’t realise there’s a difference between mean and median?

    You don't get the one without the other. That's the point.

    Not true. It is possible to be selective about who you let in. Virtually every other country in the world manages
    And so do we. We let people in from our nearest trading bloc neighbour, but not someone from, say, Zhonghua Renmin GongHeGuo.
    We do at the moment

    But I was responding to @SouthamObserver claim that it’s not possible to discriminate between Irish fat cats and Romanian street sellers. Of course it is

    I did not say it was not possible. I said that it would not be advisable to do it if in discriminating against lower-skilled EU migrants we make the UK less attractive for higher skilled ones.

    I believe your words were “of course it is. That’s the point”
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    I have a 50/1 bet on John McDonnell for next Labour leader, courtesy of Bet365. I tipped this in 2015.

    Amazingly, he wouldn't be my best result in this particular market, or even in my top three.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    At the last Bavarian state election the two main parties polled 68% between them. This time it looks like that could drop by a third to around 46%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_state_election,_2018
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301

    Labour figures set out 'Bolshevik' plan to restrict Tom Watson's power if Jeremy Corbyn resigns

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/09/18/labour-figures-set-plan-restrict-tom-watsons-power-jeremy-corbyn/

    And what are the moderates going to do about this "Bolshevik" plot...absolutely sweet FA.

    Given the appalling way opponents of Corbyn aimed to keep him off the ballot when he was facing a leadership challenge I think it makes sense that his supporters would be wary about an interim leader trying to subvert the rules.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    AndyJS said:

    tpfkar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Who?
    Anyone with a bit more energy, such as Layla Moran or Jo Swinson.
    Mike Hancock.
  • Mr. Gin, the censorious gimpishness and technological illiteracy of the EU is something to behold, whether it's the #VATmess, the antique books delinquency, or the latest clampdown on harmless memes.

    Regardless of staying in or leaving the EU, it's bloody alarming.

    Not that UK politics is immune to that. Both May and Cooper (and Rudd, when she was in Cabinet) have displayed a weird belief that algorithms can use magic to make the interweb safe for everyone. And the less said about the cretinous attempt to ban encryption the better.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2018
    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    But Nick Palmer has repeatedly assured us that he wouldn't move against Corbyn or seek the leadership.
    Loyalist behaves as unthinking loyalist. Once the [King/Chair] is dead, long live the [King/Queen/Chair]. Tick tock etc.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Sean_F said:

    AndyJS said:

    tpfkar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Who?
    Anyone with a bit more energy, such as Layla Moran or Jo Swinson.
    Mike Hancock.
    Haha. I know there were reasons why he stood down, but Tim Farron was growing into the role, and what he was good at was getting heard and energetic campaigning. Feels like the Lib Dems might have been more visible if he'd remained leader. He may well have grown gravitas over time as well.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018

    Mr. Gin, the censorious gimpishness and technological illiteracy of the EU is something to behold, whether it's the #VATmess, the antique books delinquency, or the latest clampdown on harmless memes.

    Regardless of staying in or leaving the EU, it's bloody alarming.

    Not that UK politics is immune to that. Both May and Cooper (and Rudd, when she was in Cabinet) have displayed a weird belief that algorithms can use magic to make the interweb safe for everyone. And the less said about the cretinous attempt to ban encryption the better.

    Yep, politicians and tech should never meet.

    But I've noticed the latest madness from the EU with Articles 11 and 13 has even upset quite a few young (former?) Remainers so every cloud and all that... :D
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    That must be the greatest worry for the Conservatives. McDonnell is far better at politics than Corbyn, indeed he would be the best Labour leader in terms of doing politics since Blair. He plays the political game far better than most of the current crop of Conservatives and would, in a GE, run rings round the likes of Javid and Hunt.

    The truth is the policies would stop him getting elected but he plays the political game well and is, I suspect, like all good politicians, absolutely ruthless.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Mr. Gin, the censorious gimpishness and technological illiteracy of the EU is something to behold, whether it's the #VATmess, the antique books delinquency, or the latest clampdown on harmless memes.

    Regardless of staying in or leaving the EU, it's bloody alarming.

    Not that UK politics is immune to that. Both May and Cooper (and Rudd, when she was in Cabinet) have displayed a weird belief that algorithms can use magic to make the interweb safe for everyone. And the less said about the cretinous attempt to ban encryption the better.

    Politicians have never understood technology, and the problem is definitely getting worse as the tech becomes more pervasive. A large part of the problem is that they only ever talk to either security services or large company lobbyists, both of whom have something of an anti-consumer agenda to push.

    Politicians thinking that they can somehow ban mathematics was probably the new low among many recent stories.
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    I am sure someone mentioned on here that he had some health concerns which might make it less likely that he would push for the leadership. But not sure what they are...
  • stodge said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    The truth is the policies would stop him getting elected but he plays the political game well and is, I suspect, like all good politicians, absolutely ruthless.
    He's clever enough to know that - so he wouldn't run on the scarier ones - waiting until he got into office 'Things are worse than we thought - we need to go further'
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    I am sure someone mentioned on here that he had some health concerns which might make it less likely that he would push for the leadership. But not sure what they are...
    Someone said here he's had a heart-attack.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    AndyJS said:

    At the last Bavarian state election the two main parties polled 68% between them. This time it looks like that could drop by a third to around 46%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_state_election,_2018

    Although technically, the SPD would cease to be the 2nd party, replaced by the Greens. So it wouldn't drop by that much.
    The FDP and Linke hovering around the 5% mark is the most important stat however, them achieving or not achieving that figure will make a big difference to what kind of coalition emerges.
    The Bavarians aren't used to coalitions...
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
    Well he appears to have conned Mumsnet.
  • Amusing line from Tom Harris. Something is surely up; this looks more like a plan than a contingency plan to me.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1042057197461676032

    Some of us (well, me) have been saying for some time that Jeremy Corbyn's age means that the possibility of him standing down soon should not be underestimated. This looks like part of a retirement plan to me.

    It is also very clear that John McDonnell is on manoeuvres. Watch this space.

    I have a 50/1 bet on John McDonnell for next Labour leader, courtesy of Bet365. I tipped this in 2015.

    Amazingly, he wouldn't be my best result in this particular market, or even in my top three.
    I have more runners and riders (both backed and laid) in the next Labour leader market than a typical grand national field.

  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    I am sure someone mentioned on here that he had some health concerns which might make it less likely that he would push for the leadership. But not sure what they are...
    Someone said here he's had a heart-attack.
    McDonnell, who hardly drinks and doesn’t smoke, suffered a heart attack in 2013 and was forced to take time off. His new job is hardly likely to help his blood pressure.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/15/john-mcdonnell-unreconstructed-on-the-left-but-with-allies-on-the-right
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
    Well he appears to have conned Mumsnet.
    I am on him at 800s for next lucky £2 ;)
  • AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
    Well he appears to have conned Mumsnet.
    Well, Mumsnet is the Labour Party on maternity leave, so he has a head start.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
    I find him the same TBH and don't think he comes across well. However, he is obviously on top of his brief which puts him ahead of many others on both sides.
  • Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    edited September 2018
    stodge said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    That must be the greatest worry for the Conservatives. McDonnell is far better at politics than Corbyn, indeed he would be the best Labour leader in terms of doing politics since Blair. He plays the political game far better than most of the current crop of Conservatives and would, in a GE, run rings round the likes of Javid and Hunt.

    The truth is the policies would stop him getting elected but he plays the political game well and is, I suspect, like all good politicians, absolutely ruthless.
    Policies such as rail and water nationalisation? I think McD would go in with the popular stuff and build from there.

    But, I do think his personal health rules him out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited September 2018
    rpjs said:

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections.

    [...]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    Looks to me that the Ds are set to pick up AZ, NV and TN of those three, and TX (Texas!) is looking a lot more likely a D pickup than it should. Against that FL, IN, and ND are looking iffy, although I think the Ds will retain FL on balance. All in all I think the best the GOP can hope for is maintaining the current 51/49 balance in their favour, and a 50/50 split is probably the most likely outcome (Ds pick up AZ, NV and TN but fail to retain IN and ND). Mike Pence will be busy.
    West Virginia voted for Trump by a 'uge margin, and that's up. The same is true of Montana. And Claire McCaskill looks iffy in Missouri.

    If the Dems hold onto two of those three, they will have had a good night.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2018

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    Simon Jenkins is making exactly the point I was making earlier today.

    The really important thing to realise is that this concern about cultural issues (being able to control their community's character and pace of change, as he puts it) is not the same as xenophobia, racism or bigotry (although it can, if ignored or slighted, morph into those). It's a perfectly healthy and valid concern.

    As an example, I think it would be fair to say no-one in the UK is prejudiced against Swedes. If a Swedish family moved in next door, they'd be welcome anywhere in the country.

    But if in a village of 250 people, 50 Swedish families moved in over a short time, so that the whole character of the village was suddenly changed and Swedish became the first language of most children in the local school, it would be a different reaction. It's not about hostility to the incomers themselves, but about wanting to preserve the familiar character of home.

    This is why things like the ludicrous attempt to stop people using completely harmless phrases such as 'whiter than white' gets people's hackles rising so much - who the hell are these people coming in to tell us that we're not allowed to use our own language?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Maybe they could find someone who thinks it is immoral to be gay. That would chime well with their likely voters.
  • Mr. Sandpit, I can understand them not getting the details. But this is basic, obvious stuff that can be learnt in minutes.

    I'm a thousand miles away from being tech-savvy yet I (and practically everyone here) seems to have a better understanding than the politicians. It'd help if the media reported things a bit more and understood them better too. For all the media storm over the EU it was on Twitter I saw coverage of the copyright nonsense from the EU, not the broadcast media.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Maybe they could find someone who thinks it is immoral to be gay. That would chime well with their likely voters.
    In my view, if you're going to advocate a contentious viewpoint, you need to do it wholeheartedly. Which means, they need a leader who advocates the death penalty for homosexuality.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )

    I always enjoy John Harris who actually leaves London and goes see for himself

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/britains-insecure-towns-left-behind
  • Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )
    Why the referendum was lost has absolutely no relevance to dealing with the reality of Brexit, unless of course you hoped that it would just be treated as a protest vote to be reversed after addressing people's concerns...
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    What is the point of the Lib Dems? Explanation 9 is the best:
    “It’s basically just a drinking society for people who like politics,” someone told me. Like the Sealed Knot re-enacting battles without the danger of bloodshed, the Lib Dems re-enact politics without the danger of power.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/09/what-point-liberal-democrats

    Without the danger of bloodshed??? Have you seen how they all carry a sharp knife, for the plunging between the shoulder blades of their potential leadership rivals....
    You`re getting mixed up with the Tories, Mr Mark. You spend far too long in bad company, I think, and are starting to think that everybody else behaves like they do.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018
    So the Daily Express and weather, eh. Hilariously hysterical article worthy of the Daily Mash.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1019090/UK-weather-latest-news-storm-forecast-September-weather-2018

    UK weather STORM HELL: Storm Ali to unleash 85mph CHURNING VORTEX

    A MERCILESS barrage of storms will hammer Britain this week as the nation hunkers down for ex-Hurricane Helene to unleash hell within hours and Storm Ali on Wednesday.

    Potentially killer gales threaten to topple trees, knock out power supplies and hurl flying debris across swathes of the country through the next 24 hours.

    Another violent cyclonic weather system will launch an even more vicious assault after Helene has finished her attack today, forecasters warn.


    Only those living in a hardened bunker have a chance of survival...
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections.

    [...]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    Looks to me that the Ds are set to pick up AZ, NV and TN of those three, and TX (Texas!) is looking a lot more likely a D pickup than it should. Against that FL, IN, and ND are looking iffy, although I think the Ds will retain FL on balance. All in all I think the best the GOP can hope for is maintaining the current 51/49 balance in their favour, and a 50/50 split is probably the most likely outcome (Ds pick up AZ, NV and TN but fail to retain IN and ND). Mike Pence will be busy.
    West Virginia voted for Trump by a 'uge margin, and that's up. The same is true of Montana. And Claire McCaskill looks iffy in Missouri.

    If the Dems hold onto two of those three, they will have had a good night.
    A lot of times incumbency trumps (see what I did there) other considerations, and appears to be working in the Dems favour in those three states. I think the Dems will retain all three. WV in particular won't even be close.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )
    Why the referendum was lost has absolutely no relevance to dealing with the reality of Brexit, unless of course you hoped that it would just be treated as a protest vote to be reversed after addressing people's concerns...
    those caterwauling for a second referendum might find it very relevant
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )

    I always enjoy John Harris who actually leaves London and goes see for himself

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/britains-insecure-towns-left-behind
    Not much sign of Brexit or the Tories addressing those issues though is there?

    Brexit is a solution looking for a problem.

    Apart from a few places in the Fens with recent EU migration, there was an inverse relationship of percentage of the population born abroad and voting Leave. Many of the strongest Leave voting areas in the old coalfields of Wales or the NE have had nearly no inward migration.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections.

    [...]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    Looks to me that the Ds are set to pick up AZ, NV and TN of those three, and TX (Texas!) is looking a lot more likely a D pickup than it should. Against that FL, IN, and ND are looking iffy, although I think the Ds will retain FL on balance. All in all I think the best the GOP can hope for is maintaining the current 51/49 balance in their favour, and a 50/50 split is probably the most likely outcome (Ds pick up AZ, NV and TN but fail to retain IN and ND). Mike Pence will be busy.
    West Virginia voted for Trump by a 'uge margin, and that's up. The same is true of Montana. And Claire McCaskill looks iffy in Missouri.

    If the Dems hold onto two of those three, they will have had a good night.
    A lot of times incumbency trumps (see what I did there) other considerations, and appears to be working in the Dems favour in those three states. I think the Dems will retain all three. WV in particular won't even be close.
    What has happened in those three States (and North Dakota and Indiana) is they've shifted Red at a very rapid rate. That doesn't mean they can't be held, but it does make it much harder than previously. People have become so much more partisan.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    dixiedean said:

    AndyJS said:

    Things you never expected to read in The Spectator:

    "How John McDonnell wooed Mumsnet
    James Kirkup

    As so often these days, if you want real political insight, go to Mumsnet. In a web chat there today, John McDonnell has offered extensive proof that – whatever you think of his politics and policies – he is an extremely professional and skilful political communicator."


    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/how-john-mcdonnell-wooed-mumsnet/

    This is what makes McIRA far more dangerous than moronic Corbyn.
    McDonnell is uber creepy and insincere. He lacks Jezza's charm, cant see people taking to him.
    I find him the same TBH and don't think he comes across well. However, he is obviously on top of his brief which puts him ahead of many others on both sides.
    When you think about all the ways totalitarian governments have began and thengone wrong, and their willingness to do anything to achieve their aims. Whtether it’s breaking eggs to create an omelette, re-education camps, mass executions, means justify the ends. They all need people who will do anyntung, say anything, and carry out any act that they think will further their cause.
    John Mcdonell. He is ta dangerous demagogue who will if given the opportunity do whatever it takes, whatever the cost.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Foxy said:

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )

    I always enjoy John Harris who actually leaves London and goes see for himself

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/britains-insecure-towns-left-behind
    Not much sign of Brexit or the Tories addressing those issues though is there?

    Brexit is a solution looking for a problem.

    Apart from a few places in the Fens with recent EU migration, there was an inverse relationship of percentage of the population born abroad and voting Leave. Many of the strongest Leave voting areas in the old coalfields of Wales or the NE have had nearly no inward migration.
    the Tories are no closer to addressing the issues than Labour as seen in GE 2017

    However in pursuing Brexit they are at least putting themselves in a position where they have more freedom to do so
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Vince Cable is monotonous and rambling. He is the perfect speaker to send an audience to sleep

    The LDs would probably be on 15% with a different leader.
    Maybe they could find someone who thinks it is immoral to be gay. That would chime well with their likely voters.
    We need Lamb, but we are not going to get him. He is out of tune on Europe, though that would matter less post Brexit.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Foxy said:

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )

    I always enjoy John Harris who actually leaves London and goes see for himself

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/britains-insecure-towns-left-behind
    Not much sign of Brexit or the Tories addressing those issues though is there?

    Brexit is a solution looking for a problem.

    Apart from a few places in the Fens with recent EU migration, there was an inverse relationship of percentage of the population born abroad and voting Leave. Many of the strongest Leave voting areas in the old coalfields of Wales or the NE have had nearly no inward migration.
    Is that supposed to make it invalid as an issue for them?
  • Sean_F said:

    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections.

    [...]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    Looks to me that the Ds are set to pick up AZ, NV and TN of those three, and TX (Texas!) is looking a lot more likely a D pickup than it should. Against that FL, IN, and ND are looking iffy, although I think the Ds will retain FL on balance. All in all I think the best the GOP can hope for is maintaining the current 51/49 balance in their favour, and a 50/50 split is probably the most likely outcome (Ds pick up AZ, NV and TN but fail to retain IN and ND). Mike Pence will be busy.
    West Virginia voted for Trump by a 'uge margin, and that's up. The same is true of Montana. And Claire McCaskill looks iffy in Missouri.

    If the Dems hold onto two of those three, they will have had a good night.
    A lot of times incumbency trumps (see what I did there) other considerations, and appears to be working in the Dems favour in those three states. I think the Dems will retain all three. WV in particular won't even be close.
    What has happened in those three States (and North Dakota and Indiana) is they've shifted Red at a very rapid rate. That doesn't mean they can't be held, but it does make it much harder than previously. People have become so much more partisan.
    Here's the issue though Sean. In the last 5 'Wave Elections' (1994, 2006, 2008, 2010, 2014), there have been 54 incumbent senators on the right side of the wave, all 54 have won election. In fact I think you'd have to go back to 1982 when Howard Cannon was defeated in Nevada to find an incumbent senator who wasn't re-elected in a wave year for their party. So basically 36 years of history say the Dems will hold their incumbent seats.
  • NEW THREAD

  • rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Off Topic - Thoughts on the US Midterm Senate elections.

    [...]

    So the Dems need to pick up 2 out of 4 in NV, AZ, TN, TX, while hold the rest of their seats. Personally I wouldn't bet against that happening and would at least rate it a 50/50 chance.

    Looks to me that the Ds are set to pick up AZ, NV and TN of those three, and TX (Texas!) is looking a lot more likely a D pickup than it should. Against that FL, IN, and ND are looking iffy, although I think the Ds will retain FL on balance. All in all I think the best the GOP can hope for is maintaining the current 51/49 balance in their favour, and a 50/50 split is probably the most likely outcome (Ds pick up AZ, NV and TN but fail to retain IN and ND). Mike Pence will be busy.
    West Virginia voted for Trump by a 'uge margin, and that's up. The same is true of Montana. And Claire McCaskill looks iffy in Missouri.

    If the Dems hold onto two of those three, they will have had a good night.
    The key question may be the extent to which traditional Republican voters see President Trump as sui generis. Will they say to themselves, President Trump clearly does not believe in small government, balanced budgets, free trade, or any other proclaimed GOP values, so I must abstain or vote for someone else, or will they say, President Trump is a moron but is not connected to that fine, upstanding Republican Senator Rebecca Mainstream so I can vote for her?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749

    Foxy said:

    Interesting twitter thread discussion between Rob Ford & others about immigration:

    https://twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1042008178475642885

    the Guardian at least is making an effort to understand why the EUref was lost - who knows PB remainers might eventually start ( i know I know )

    I always enjoy John Harris who actually leaves London and goes see for himself

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/britains-insecure-towns-left-behind
    Not much sign of Brexit or the Tories addressing those issues though is there?

    Brexit is a solution looking for a problem.

    Apart from a few places in the Fens with recent EU migration, there was an inverse relationship of percentage of the population born abroad and voting Leave. Many of the strongest Leave voting areas in the old coalfields of Wales or the NE have had nearly no inward migration.
    Is that supposed to make it invalid as an issue for them?
    No. But crudely linking voting Leave to changing demographics does not explain that much of Leaverland has had little or no inward migration.

    That is not a co incidence, migrants tend to go where economic opportunity lies, not to places "left behind" such as the Walsall of the article. I lived in Walsall for six months in the eighties, it was pretty grim then too.
This discussion has been closed.