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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The affairs of state. How the personal can become very politic

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Apparently the last time India chased more than 100 to win an away Test was 2003 when they made 233/6 at Adelaide.

    So when they chase this total, whatever it finally is (around 180 I would think) they will be setting a new mark.
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,227

    AndyJS said:

    "Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
    The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
    https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

    This nightmare Cult is going to eat itself isn't it? Tony Benn is supposed to be the Godfather of all this, yet the nutters are attacking his granddaughter.

    As Sacks said the other day, 'its starts with the jews, but never ends there.'

    So ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    surby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

    Trump is not fit to be present
    He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him
    He is also not fit to be President.
    That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016
    You mean, he won the electoral college and lost the votes. Many losing Republican candidates have won the majority of US states and lost the election.
    Really? Who? I would have thought it was the other way around.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Why don't you try reading the header rather than just looking at the picture.

    You will find that the estimable Mr Meeks has a section devoted to Corbyn.
  • surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Ahem. Surely that's the case for the Corbynites? Except their view on Israel is much less nuanced than Ms Free's.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    surby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

    Trump is not fit to be present
    He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him
    He is also not fit to be President.
    That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016
    You mean, he won the electoral college and lost the votes. Many losing Republican candidates have won the majority of US states and lost the election.
    The presidential election is NOT a contest for the nationwide popular vote. It is a contest to win the most states with the most electoral votes.The purpose is to avoid the situation (as in 2016) where one candidate rolls up such huge vote tallies in 2 or 3 states (CA, NY and MA) that it completely distorts the popular vote in the rest of the country.

    Who wins the nationwide popular vote is every sense irrelevant to the outcome of a presidential election.
  • nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    Thre must be question mark over the "democratic" part of that description. Apart from the support he has lent to extremely authoritarian movements abroad there is also the question of Murray & Milne being on record as admiring Stalinism and Maoism and McDonnell's enthusiam for extra-parliamentary action. I've no doubt he believes himself to be more democratic than anyone else in British politics as Workers Democracy must be superior to mere bourgeois democracy.
  • AndyJS said:

    "Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
    The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
    https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

    This nightmare Cult is going to eat itself isn't it? Tony Benn is supposed to be the Godfather of all this, yet the nutters are attacking his granddaughter.

    As Sacks said the other day, 'its starts with the jews, but never ends there.'

    They also attacked Hilary Benn, told him his dad would be ashamed. His response "you clearly dontd know him" was ignored. So why not attack her too. She's a Tory too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    I see one Trump was at the McCain memorial, Ivanka along with her husband Jared Kushner
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Yes that seems the case.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited September 2018
    surby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

    Trump is not fit to be present
    He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him
    He is also not fit to be President.
    That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016
    You mean, he won the electoral college and lost the votes. Many losing Republican candidates have won the majority of US states and lost the election.
    The US presidential election is determined by the Electoral College not the popular vote and you have to go back to Gerald Ford in 1976 to find a losing Republican candidate in the general election who won most US states but lost the election
  • AndyJS said:

    "Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
    The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
    https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

    This nightmare Cult is going to eat itself isn't it? Tony Benn is supposed to be the Godfather of all this, yet the nutters are attacking his granddaughter.

    As Sacks said the other day, 'its starts with the jews, but never ends there.'

    They also attacked Hilary Benn, told him his dad would be ashamed. His response "you clearly dontd know him" was ignored. So why not attack her too. She's a Tory too.
    I read some anecdote the other day in which Tony Benn didn't speak to a comrade for six months because he made a negative comment about Benn's son's politics. When he did finally speak to him, Benn told him to never have a go at his family ever again.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    I see one Trump was at the McCain memorial, Ivanka along with her husband Jared Kushner

    the list of disinvites is quite long - not least POTUS, Sarah Palin, and most of his 2008 election team.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Wrong again. Unlike you I have criticised Israel on here, most recently over the recent Nationality Law. And have stated that there is nothing wrong with Corbyn speaking up for the Palestinian cause. It is how he does it which is in issue. My concern is with his
    faulty moral judgment and his attitude to British Jews and, indeed, British citizens generally, including Emily Benn, a friend of mine.

    My only obsession is gardening. On that subject I am sure Corbyn and I could happily talk for hours.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    RobD said:

    surby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

    Big Business leader wants second EU referendum, no surprise there, Big Business overwhelmingly backed Remain in 2016
    So did you.
    HYUFD overwhelmingly backed Remain? :p
    More 51%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

    Trump is not fit to be present
    He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him
    He is also not fit to be President.
    That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016
    No, it’s my opinion, and the fact that he duped a minority of the electorate into voting for him does nothing to alter it. You may be prepared to suspend you critical faculties, but that is entirely your own business.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see one Trump was at the McCain memorial, Ivanka along with her husband Jared Kushner

    the list of disinvites is quite long - not least POTUS, Sarah Palin, and most of his 2008 election team.
    Most of the disinvites are on the populist right of the GOP
  • Yorkcity said:

    surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Yes that seems the case.
    That's bullsh*t. Firstly, your original attack on her was wrong, because the threader had a section on Corbyn. Secondly, she has repeatedly criticised Israel for some of their actions in the past. Thirdly, the accusation s a bit rich given the obsession many in Labour currently have over Israel.
  • edited September 2018
    Excellent header Alistair except for the mention of social democracy in relation to Corbyn. It reminds me why I don't bother with the dead tree press.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Renee Fleming is singing Danny Boy, and Cindy and Meghan are starting to lose it. It must be so tough for them. This has been going on for a week.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see one Trump was at the McCain memorial, Ivanka along with her husband Jared Kushner

    the list of disinvites is quite long - not least POTUS, Sarah Palin, and most of his 2008 election team.
    Most of the disinvites are on the populist right of the GOP
    Looks that way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Now see what we did.

    You muppet, what were you thinking?

    Now it's just the bowlers and you know that none of them can even hold a bloody bat. 151 just isn't enough for a side that includes Kohli!
    I am saying nothing, you bozo.
    :smile:
    Oi!

    That's Krusty if you don't mind...
    Sincere apologies.

  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    You're quoting The Force Awakens??
    And why not?

    It's The Last Jedi that was unwatchable.

    The Force Awakens was just unoriginal.
    "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi." :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    You're quoting The Force Awakens??
    And why not?

    It's The Last Jedi that was unwatchable.

    The Force Awakens was just unoriginal.
    "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi." :)
    Your post has no peace, but they are always purposeful when it comes to trying to defend the indefensible!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Now see what we did.

    You muppet, what were you thinking?

    Now it's just the bowlers and you know that none of them can even hold a bloody bat. 151 just isn't enough for a side that includes Kohli!
    I am saying nothing, you bozo.
    :smile:
    Oi!

    That's Krusty if you don't mind...
    Sincere apologies.

    I should be sorry. I shouldn't have got riled by such a Marge-in aBart such a thing.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The most touching of all as the casket moves down the main aisle of the National Cathedral: in the procession is the wheelchair containing McCain's 106 year old mother.
  • Yorkcity said:

    surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Yes that seems the case.
    Both of you seem to have missed the following text in Alastair's header:

    Jeremy Corbyn has unleashed a new interest in unabashed and updated social democratic policies. He has enthused a new generation with retail socialism. In the process, however, he has also attracted a torrent of hostility from those who are repelled by the numerous unsavoury connections that he has made and his questionable actions over the years: his approval ratings, never good, are once again abysmal.

    He is getting in the way of the social democratic intifada that he claims to seek to lead. But no other figure inspires anything like the same level of loyalty on the left. He is both indispensable to Labour and a huge impediment. How this is resolved may change the course of future British politics.
  • Gripping test match.
  • Betting Post

    F1: still writing up the pre-race ramble but the bet I've made is Hamilton to win at 7 (each way, third the odds top 2).

    It was ultra close between the top three in qualifying. In the race, the Mercedes should, I think, perform relatively better, and Hamilton's quite good at this driving business. I think 7 is too long.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Yorkcity said:

    surby said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    Thought the header was about Salmond ?

    You seem obsessed with Corbyn.
    Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.
    Yes that seems the case.
    Both of you seem to have missed the following text in Alastair's header:

    Jeremy Corbyn has unleashed a new interest in unabashed and updated social democratic policies. He has enthused a new generation with retail socialism. In the process, however, he has also attracted a torrent of hostility from those who are repelled by the numerous unsavoury connections that he has made and his questionable actions over the years: his approval ratings, never good, are once again abysmal.

    He is getting in the way of the social democratic intifada that he claims to seek to lead. But no other figure inspires anything like the same level of loyalty on the left. He is both indispensable to Labour and a huge impediment. How this is resolved may change the course of future British politics.
    Surely the only way is for him to resign and anoint a successor? Again, I think him to go next year is value.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



  • Tim_B said:

    The most touching of all as the casket moves down the main aisle of the National Cathedral: in the procession is the wheelchair containing McCain's 106 year old mother.

    Interesting that he also chose a British hymn to conclude....also featured at Churchill & Thatcher's funerals (and Charles & Diana's wedding and then her funeral too!)
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    You're quoting The Force Awakens??
    And why not?

    It's The Last Jedi that was unwatchable.

    The Force Awakens was just unoriginal.
    "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi." :)
    Your post has no peace, but they are always purposeful when it comes to trying to defend the indefensible!
    "Let me learn you something big: It's all a machine, partner. Live free. Don't join."

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Betting Post

    F1: still writing up the pre-race ramble but the bet I've made is Hamilton to win at 7 (each way, third the odds top 2).

    It was ultra close between the top three in qualifying. In the race, the Mercedes should, I think, perform relatively better, and Hamilton's quite good at this driving business. I think 7 is too long.

    Although he will have Mad Max directly behind him so he might not make the first corner.
  • nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    So Corbyn will be handing over to someone who is working class then?
  • "America does not boast, because she does not need to. The America of John McCain has no need to be made great again, because America was always great." - Meghan McCain

    Is the Donald going to manage to take the high ground and accept this stinging criticism?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    So Corbyn will be handing over to someone who is working class then?
    That'll limit his choice. Most of them are as posh as he is.

    Or is he planning to hand over to TSE?
  • "America does not boast, because she does not need to. The America of John McCain has no need to be made great again, because America was always great." - Meghan McCain

    Is the Donald going to manage to take the high ground and accept this stinging criticism?

    QTWTAIN?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Betting Post

    F1: still writing up the pre-race ramble but the bet I've made is Hamilton to win at 7 (each way, third the odds top 2).

    It was ultra close between the top three in qualifying. In the race, the Mercedes should, I think, perform relatively better, and Hamilton's quite good at this driving business. I think 7 is too long.

    Interesting call, and he might just scrape second.
    Unless he can pass at the start, at least one of the Ferraris should run away from him, as Bottas isn’t quick enough here to provide Mercedes with any strategy options.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Raikkonen’s race plan - or rather the one given to him - proves to be less than optimal....
  • ydoethur said:

    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    So Corbyn will be handing over to someone who is working class then?
    That'll limit his choice. Most of them are as posh as he is.

    Or is he planning to hand over to TSE?
    Seems most of his office are communist poshos.
  • ydoethur said:

    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    So Corbyn will be handing over to someone who is working class then?
    That'll limit his choice. Most of them are as posh as he is.

    Or is he planning to hand over to TSE?
    Rayner fits the bill. Although I think she is in the thought-gulag at the moment for mentioning that Blair had introduced the minimum wage and that was quite good.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Warren Beatty is an honorary pall bearer. McCain had an eclectic group of friends.

  • Mr. B, that is certainly a possibility. Also, Raikkonen historically starts badly.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2018
    Interesting article on page 39 of today's Times travel supplement.
    "A weekend in Dartmoor" by SK Tremaybe.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-author-sk-tremayne-spends-a-weekend-in-dartmoor-nmwtjl0cs
  • AndyJS said:

    Interesting article on page 39 of today's Times travel supplement.
    "A weekend in Dartmoor" by SK Tremaybe.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-author-sk-tremayne-spends-a-weekend-in-dartmoor-nmwtjl0cs

    I thought seanT always did the travel stuff under his own name?
  • Oh bollocks......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.
  • Just when it looked like game swinging to England, buttler gone.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    SK Tremaybe
    clue is in the name!
  • ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.

    CricWiz showing its model is bollocks (again). No way England are as high as 70% to win this.
  • ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.

    CricWiz showing its model is bollocks (again). No way England are as high as 70% to win this.
    Come on Eng-lia, I mean Inder-gland!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.

    CricWiz showing its model is bollocks (again). No way England are as high as 70% to win this.
    Come on Eng-lia, I mean Inder-gland!
    Inder-gland?

    Is that the one that hits them in the balls?
  • Picture editor being a bit naughty......

    https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1035933254405246981
  • I'm guessing I'm the only one here who remembers a kids' TV show called Round The Bend set in an underground drain somewhere in Westminster. It was a live-action puppet show mostly, but had an animated section called "Thunderpants" (a play on Thundercats). And one of the characters was "Bum-ra" (a play on Mumm-ra) :lol:
  • Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749

    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    I am curious as to why you think this true. When has Corbyn advocated revolution? He certainly is critical of contemporary capitalism, but believes in reform rather than abolition.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.

    CricWiz showing its model is bollocks (again). No way England are as high as 70% to win this.
    Betfair says 60%, which is more like it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
  • RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Indi-gland equal their first innings total!
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bugger.

    There was I nobly resisting the temptation to say Buttler was serving up a feast and he misses a straight one.

    Still very even. One more wicket for India now and they're still well in it. Thirty more runs and England would be safe.

    CricWiz showing its model is bollocks (again). No way England are as high as 70% to win this.
    Betfair says 60%, which is more like it.
    I dunno, England are probably marginal favourites even if India take a hat-trick now. And with the batsmen still to come easy to see them getting another 50 runs at least.
  • Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Mr Dancer, not sure how soon you will read this, but all in the name of humour :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    It's 7 years since India chased a total as high as this in any part of the world. So they are starting to look under pressure. They need these last three wickets very quickly - tonight, for preference.
  • ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
    Which part of Wales are you from?

    Because they only use that spelling around Swansea. Elsewhere it's 'sut mae'. Rare example of a non-phonetic Welsh phrase.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    ydoethur said:

    It's 7 years since India chased a total as high as this in any part of the world. So they are starting to look under pressure. They need these last three wickets very quickly - tonight, for preference.

    It should be said that chasing stats are often highly dubious, being generally based on very low sample numbers, and excluding higher fourth innings scores which didn't result in victory.

    But i fancy Moeen will take a hatful.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    alex. said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's 7 years since India chased a total as high as this in any part of the world. So they are starting to look under pressure. They need these last three wickets very quickly - tonight, for preference.

    It should be said that chasing stats are often highly dubious, being generally based on very low sample numbers, and excluding higher fourth innings scores which didn't result in victory.

    But i fancy Moeen will take a hatful.
    If I were India I'd be nervy of facing Ali, Rashid, and Curran on this pitch, not to mention Root to help out. That could go wrong.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    edited September 2018
    Foxy said:

    nielh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Interesting header.

    But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

    this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.
    He's a revolutionary socialist - the view that "revolution is a necessary precondition for a transition from capitalism to socialism. Revolution is not necessarily defined as a violent insurrection; it is defined as seizure of political power by mass movements (my emphasis) of the working class so that the state is directly controlled by the working class as opposed to the capitalist class and its interests."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_socialism



    I am curious as to why you think this true. When has Corbyn advocated revolution? He certainly is critical of contemporary capitalism, but believes in reform rather than abolition.
    It's the raddled, old Tory equivalent of Cro-Magnons sitting round the camp fire and scaring each other shitless with stories of sabre tooth tigers.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
    Which part of Wales are you from?

    Because they only use that spelling around Swansea. Elsewhere it's 'sut mae'. Rare example of a non-phonetic Welsh phrase.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4328733.stm

    A BBC journalist is urging helpful linguists to come forward to help solve a mystery - why the Hindi accent has so much in common with Welsh.

    Sonia Mathur, a native Hindi speaker, had her interest sparked when she moved from India to work for the BBC in Wales - and found that two accents from countries 5,000 miles apart seemed to have something in common.

    It has long been known that the two languages stem from Indo-European, the "mother of all languages" - but the peculiar similarities between the two accents when spoken in English are striking.
  • The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
    Which part of Wales are you from?

    Because they only use that spelling around Swansea. Elsewhere it's 'sut mae'. Rare example of a non-phonetic Welsh phrase.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4328733.stm

    A BBC journalist is urging helpful linguists to come forward to help solve a mystery - why the Hindi accent has so much in common with Welsh.

    Sonia Mathur, a native Hindi speaker, had her interest sparked when she moved from India to work for the BBC in Wales - and found that two accents from countries 5,000 miles apart seemed to have something in common.

    It has long been known that the two languages stem from Indo-European, the "mother of all languages" - but the peculiar similarities between the two accents when spoken in English are striking.
    You're sure that isn't based on Ronnie Corbett's (in)famous accent in the Worm that Turned?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited September 2018
    Adil has a Rash of blood.

    Still very even. England would like 40 more I think, but I don't know if they can get them now.

    The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).

    I'll blame you for this then...
  • Oh FFS.....
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
    Which part of Wales are you from?

    Because they only use that spelling around Swansea. Elsewhere it's 'sut mae'. Rare example of a non-phonetic Welsh phrase.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4328733.stm

    A BBC journalist is urging helpful linguists to come forward to help solve a mystery - why the Hindi accent has so much in common with Welsh.

    Sonia Mathur, a native Hindi speaker, had her interest sparked when she moved from India to work for the BBC in Wales - and found that two accents from countries 5,000 miles apart seemed to have something in common.

    It has long been known that the two languages stem from Indo-European, the "mother of all languages" - but the peculiar similarities between the two accents when spoken in English are striking.
    You're sure that isn't based on Ronnie Corbett's (in)famous accent in the Worm that Turned?
    I thought that was the journalist bloke in Dad's Army?

    Ok I got right this time:

    "Siwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from?" :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Adil has a Rash of blood.

    Still very even. England would like 40 more I think, but I don't know if they can get them now.

    The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).

    I'll blame you for this then...
    Cricwiz has it 75% for England...utter nonsense.

    I think Curran just has to go out and try and blast it, as broad and Anderson are total rabbits with the bat.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Says all you need to know that batsmen 7 and 8 are first and third in the run totals.
  • JOHN McCAIN (1936-2018)

    "With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan - to do all which may achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations."
    - Abraham Lincoln, 2nd Inaugural
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited September 2018

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Dr. Prasannan, how can you possibly get England and India confused?

    One is a country with a creaking, ageing rail system that infuriates its users, with an inflated sense of its cricketing prowess, and where it rains too much, and the other is entirely the same.

    Quite ironic that English is an official language in India but not England. Perhaps we should change that.

    Anyway, I'm off.

    Yes, time to make Hindi the official language of England.
    Rubbish.

    We should formalise the situation where the official languages of the UK are Welsh and English.

    Naturally Welsh would take precedence as it's been here for much longer and sounds much more beautiful.

    But we can negotiate on some official use of the immigrant pirates' language in certain unimportant areas.
    I'll try out my Welsh joke on ydoethur:

    "Shwmae, Boyo! And which part of India are you from? :lol:
    Which part of Wales are you from?

    Because they only use that spelling around Swansea. Elsewhere it's 'sut mae'. Rare example of a non-phonetic Welsh phrase.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4328733.stm

    A BBC journalist is urging helpful linguists to come forward to help solve a mystery - why the Hindi accent has so much in common with Welsh.

    Sonia Mathur, a native Hindi speaker, had her interest sparked when she moved from India to work for the BBC in Wales - and found that two accents from countries 5,000 miles apart seemed to have something in common.

    It has long been known that the two languages stem from Indo-European, the "mother of all languages" - but the peculiar similarities between the two accents when spoken in English are striking.
    Me and my Welsh friends have joked about the similarities for years, always thought it was a bit strange TBH. As soon as they adopt some of the Welsh slang they sound more like locals than the English.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Sandpit said:

    Says all you need to know that batsmen 7 and 8 are first and third in the run totals.

    The best possible news for England is that Mark Ramprakash is apparently hoping to go to Middlesex as their head coach.

    His replacement cannot be any worse and will almost certainly be much better.
  • ARETHA + JOHN = R.E.S.P.E.C.T

    No doubt that the late, great Aretha Franklin would have loved the r-e-s-p-e-c-t shown by the band of HM's Welsh Guards on Friday.

    And no doubt so would the late, great John McCain. For they each not only proclaimed respect for others, and oneselves, they lived it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    ydoethur said:

    Adil has a Rash of blood.

    Still very even. England would like 40 more I think, but I don't know if they can get them now.

    The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).

    I'll blame you for this then...
    Despite (or perhaps because of) the numerous errors, it’s looking like a cracking test.
    A target of 240 ought to be too much on this pitch - Tuffers salivating on TMS - but equally a lucky partnership could win it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Adil has a Rash of blood.

    Still very even. England would like 40 more I think, but I don't know if they can get them now.

    The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).

    I'll blame you for this then...
    Despite (or perhaps because of) the numerous errors, it’s looking like a cracking test.
    A target of 240 ought to be too much on this pitch - Tuffers salivating on TMS - but equally a lucky partnership could win it.
    Batsmen of the quality of Pujara, Kohli and Rahane are quite capable of making their own luck. If anyone gets going, India will win.
  • EULOGY OF MORRIS K. UDALL BY SENATOR JOHN McCAIN

    "An anonymous poet wrote that, "virtue is a man's monument." Undoubtedly, the wise poet had in mind a soul the likes of Morris King Udall, a man of monumental virtue. Mo Udall was an extraordinary human being who lived an extraordinary life."

    "For over 30 years, Mo Udall graced our national and political life with his sweet humility, gentle kindness and legendary wit. A man of keen vision and great heart, he exemplified all that is good and decent about public service. Mo Udall was what we all want our leaders to be. He was a powerful man who cared not about power for its own sake, but saw it as an opportunity -- a sacred responsibility to do good as he saw it -- to champion noble causes. His many important successes are written in the laws of our nation. His legacy endures in the halls of the Congress, with men and women whom he humbled and instructed with his example. It endures among Native Americans whose welfare and progress he made his great purpose. And, it endures in the American parks and wildlands he fought to protect with his vision and his guiding ethic of environmental stewardship."

    "His most extraordinary monument is the virtue with which he lived his life and served his country. He fought the good fight in a tough arena, while remaining a man of unsurpassed integrity, boundless compassion and unfailing good humor. He knew glorious victories and bitter defeats, serene contentment and profound suffering. Through it all he remained a humble man of uncommon decency whose example offers a stark contrast to the meanness, pettiness and pride that soil too much of our political culture. Mo was never known to be moved by flattery, puffed by tribute, or impressed by his own success. He knew that a man is only as great as the cause he serves -- a cause that should be greater than himself. Nor did we ever know Mo to be discouraged in defeat. Through injury, illness, disappointment and from time to time, failure, he was a fighter."
    \
    "The Navajo say 'May you walk in beauty.' All his days, Mo Udall walked in beauty and he shared his beauty generously with us all. He is gone now. And, we will miss him. His suffering has ended. God has called our friend home. And in our mournful reflections, may we find cheer in the echoes of Mo Udall, the little boy from St. John's who became a giant, touching us one more time with those words we always loved to hear, . . . 'I'm reminded of a story.' May each of us -- may our country -- forever find cheer, instruction and inspiration in his story. A story of monumental virtue. The remarkable story of Morris K. Udall."

    https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/speeches?ID=A6D7AA20-75E2-45DA-92BF-A24D75C4F5F6
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Adil has a Rash of blood.

    Still very even. England would like 40 more I think, but I don't know if they can get them now.

    The bowlers showing the batsman how to do it (again).

    I'll blame you for this then...
    Despite (or perhaps because of) the numerous errors, it’s looking like a cracking test.
    A target of 240 ought to be too much on this pitch - Tuffers salivating on TMS - but equally a lucky partnership could win it.
    Batsmen of the quality of Pujara, Kohli and Rahane are quite capable of making their own luck. If anyone gets going, India will win.
    They are, but the pitch is interesting enough for good bowling to make it very difficult indeed.
  • The Great McCain Story You’ve Probably Forgotten
    by Michael Lewis (1997)

    "By 7:30 we were on the road, and McCain was reminiscing about his early political career. When he was elected to the House in 1982, he said, he was "a freshman right-wing Nazi." But his visceral hostility toward Democrats generally was quickly tempered by his tendency to see people as individuals and judge them that way. He was taken in hand by Morris Udall, the Arizona congressman who was the liberal conscience of the Congress and a leading voice for reform. (Most famously—and disastrously for his own career—Udall took aim at the seniority system that kept young talent in its place at the end of the dais. "The longer you're here, the more you'll like it," he used to joke to incoming freshmen.)

    "Mo reached out to me in 50 different ways," McCain recalled. "Right from the start, he'd say: 'I'm going to hold a press conference out in Phoenix. Why don't you join me?' All these journalists would show up to hear what Mo had to say. In the middle of it all, Mo would point to me and say, 'I'd like to hear John's views.' Well, hell, I didn't have any views. But I got up and learned and was introduced to the state." Four years later, when McCain ran for and won Barry Goldwater's Senate seat, he said he felt his greatest debt of gratitude not to Goldwater—who had shunned him—but to Udall. "There's no way Mo could have been more wonderful," he says, "and there was no reason for him to be that way."

    "For the past few years, Udall has lain ill with Parkinson's disease in a veterans hospital in Northeast Washington, which is where we were heading. Every few weeks, McCain drives over to pay his respects. These days the trip is a ceremony, like going to church, only less pleasant. Udall is seldom conscious, and even then he shows no sign of recognition. McCain brings with him a stack of newspaper clips on Udall's favorite subjects: local politics in Arizona, environmental legislation, Native American land disputes, subjects in which McCain initially had no particular interest himself. Now, when the Republican senator from Arizona takes the floor on behalf of Native Americans, or when he writes an op-ed piece arguing that the Republican Party embrace environmentalism, or when the polls show once again that he is Arizona's most popular politician, he remains aware of his debt to Arizona's most influential Democrat.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/20/john-mccain-stories-215401
  • Some speculation on t'web that Salmond may have kept his Crowdfunder going because he's going to be liable for tax on it.

    "Donations" can only be made to Charities - and much as 7 pensions makes Eck a significant receiver of tax payer largesse it doesn't make him a charity......so if it is income 45% of it is going straight back to Westminster......and 8% to Crowdfunder fees and VAT.....so his £100,000 is £47,000 net.....

    Anyone know?
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183

    ARETHA + JOHN = R.E.S.P.E.C.T

    No doubt that the late, great Aretha Franklin would have loved the r-e-s-p-e-c-t shown by the band of HM's Welsh Guards on Friday.

    And no doubt so would the late, great John McCain. For they each not only proclaimed respect for others, and oneselves, they lived it.

    and he supported every war going
  • "Oneselves" is just the kind of absurdity that would have tickled Mo Udall's funny bone . . . and made John McCain cackle.

    Perhaps they are currently sharing some good laughs with each other . . .
  • If this lad doesn't make it in Sverige I'm sure there's a place for him on the SCon council candidate list.

    https://twitter.com/SavLocal/status/1035944257809465346
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited September 2018

    If this lad doesn't make it in Sverige I'm sure there's a place for him on the SCon council candidate list.

    https://twitter.com/SavLocal/status/1035944257809465346

    Or the Shadow Cabinet of course :trollface:

    Edit - fearsome level of historical illiteracy as well, of course. Anne Frank died in a concentration camp, not an extermination camp.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Some speculation on t'web that Salmond may have kept his Crowdfunder going because he's going to be liable for tax on it.

    "Donations" can only be made to Charities - and much as 7 pensions makes Eck a significant receiver of tax payer largesse it doesn't make him a charity......so if it is income 45% of it is going straight back to Westminster......and 8% to Crowdfunder fees and VAT.....so his £100,000 is £47,000 net.....

    Anyone know?

    Does it matter other than to the obsessed? It’s clear that he has support. You may like it, you may not but why bang on about it as if you have no life?
  • Have not bee on here recently - is "spire2" a Kremlin bot? OR just another PB ray o' sunshine?

    Either way, have a nice day!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    "Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
    The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
    https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

    This nightmare Cult is going to eat itself isn't it? Tony Benn is supposed to be the Godfather of all this, yet the nutters are attacking his granddaughter.

    As Sacks said the other day, 'its starts with the jews, but never ends there.'

    Emily Benn and David Blunkett have both had enough of the Corbyn Cult it seems.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    matt said:

    Some speculation on t'web that Salmond may have kept his Crowdfunder going because he's going to be liable for tax on it.

    "Donations" can only be made to Charities - and much as 7 pensions makes Eck a significant receiver of tax payer largesse it doesn't make him a charity......so if it is income 45% of it is going straight back to Westminster......and 8% to Crowdfunder fees and VAT.....so his £100,000 is £47,000 net.....

    Anyone know?

    Does it matter other than to the obsessed? It’s clear that he has support. You may like it, you may not but why bang on about it as if you have no life?
    Welcome to PoliticalBetting.com... :smiley:
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/1035846056452534273

    Might be significant if his base is finally wavering, or it could just be a temporary dip due to the way he handled the passing of McCain.
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183

    Have not bee on here recently - is "spire2" a Kremlin bot? OR just another PB ray o' sunshine?

    Either way, have a nice day!

    No just not willing to be a hypocrite and say someone was marvellous just because they're dead

    And it's nearly Sunday here in Moscow
  • spire2 said:

    Have not bee on here recently - is "spire2" a Kremlin bot? OR just another PB ray o' sunshine?

    Either way, have a nice day!

    No just not willing to be a hypocrite and say someone was marvellous just because they're dead

    And it's nearly Sunday here in Moscow
    Last Friday I attended my uncle's funeral. I doubt anyone there would have called him a perfect man: none of us are. But the few negatives got overwhelmed by the happy memories of a man who was generally good, and the love we all shared.

    Let the newspapers and history books write the good and bad of McCain, to weigh up his worth; the funeral is a time to remember the good. That's not hypocritical; it's human.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    The Great McCain Story You’ve Probably Forgotten
    by Michael Lewis (1997)

    "By 7:30 we were on the road, and McCain was reminiscing about his early political career. When he was elected to the House in 1982, he said, he was "a freshman right-wing Nazi." But his visceral hostility toward Democrats generally was quickly tempered by his tendency to see people as individuals and judge them that way. He was taken in hand by Morris Udall, the Arizona congressman who was the liberal conscience of the Congress and a leading voice for reform. (Most famously—and disastrously for his own career—Udall took aim at the seniority system that kept young talent in its place at the end of the dais. "The longer you're here, the more you'll like it," he used to joke to incoming freshmen.)

    "Mo reached out to me in 50 different ways," McCain recalled. "Right from the start, he'd say: 'I'm going to hold a press conference out in Phoenix. Why don't you join me?' All these journalists would show up to hear what Mo had to say. In the middle of it all, Mo would point to me and say, 'I'd like to hear John's views.' Well, hell, I didn't have any views. But I got up and learned and was introduced to the state." Four years later, when McCain ran for and won Barry Goldwater's Senate seat, he said he felt his greatest debt of gratitude not to Goldwater—who had shunned him—but to Udall. "There's no way Mo could have been more wonderful," he says, "and there was no reason for him to be that way."

    "For the past few years, Udall has lain ill with Parkinson's disease in a veterans hospital in Northeast Washington, which is where we were heading. Every few weeks, McCain drives over to pay his respects. These days the trip is a ceremony, like going to church, only less pleasant. Udall is seldom conscious, and even then he shows no sign of recognition. McCain brings with him a stack of newspaper clips on Udall's favorite subjects: local politics in Arizona, environmental legislation, Native American land disputes, subjects in which McCain initially had no particular interest himself. Now, when the Republican senator from Arizona takes the floor on behalf of Native Americans, or when he writes an op-ed piece arguing that the Republican Party embrace environmentalism, or when the polls show once again that he is Arizona's most popular politician, he remains aware of his debt to Arizona's most influential Democrat.

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/20/john-mccain-stories-215401

    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.
This discussion has been closed.