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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It looks like Dave’s reshuffle is really on…

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  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.
    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Neil said:

    JohnO said:

    Neil said:

    @JohnO

    Only the Irish electorate would happily pay millions of pounds for a retirement home for crap politicians!

    Don't be so bitter. How much did you lose?
    Not a penny - I didnt have a firm enough view on any of the related markets to bet any money.

    It was a bonkers decision. There can hardly be a more useless house of parliament in the western world.
    Sorry ! Two houses better than one anytime. Last thing you need is elected dictatorships. It can happen, even in Ireland. FF had a majority not so long ago, I think.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023
    tim said:

    It's clear what Hunt was trying to divert attention from on Friday

    NHS A&E units failing to meet targets triple in a year http://t.co/pUT6Eltzro via @guardian

    It's as transparent as Osborne inventing a Libor conspiracy during his Omnishambles

    "divert attention from"

    Oh come on, that's ridiculous, even from PB's biggest tinfoil-hatter.

    Hunt wasn't trying to divert attention away from anything; or if he was, then it was a very lacklustre attempt. He didn't make a speech or a briefing; he released a tweet that hardly set off an earthquake. It was hardly noted on here, afaicr.

    Burnham turned the tweet into a story. It'll be interesting to see where this goes ...
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    As an amateur investor I am not planning to put my money in this one. There is the possibility of short term gains, but I am not convinced by the longer term, and the entire market is very uncertain at present. Add in the possibility of a Miliband price freeze and trade union militancy, and i would give it a miss.


    Do your own research etc.

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    Of course it is just ordinary people's pension funds that will make the profits.

    "City speculators" in the main invest on behalf of other people, not themselves.
    If George gave 100% of GDP to hedge funds just imagine how wealthy pensioners would be.

    How are they guaranteeing a 6%+ dividend?

    Have you not applied yet? It's all about the prospective yield - like many other privatisations before it.

    We all have.

  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    I have no idea whether Hunt has "gone too far" or not and frankly cannot be bothered to look up the details of such a non story.

    What is clear from the e-mails in the Labour List article, however, is that something had gone seriously wrong at the CQC. Their concerns about liaising with the DH, ensuring that their message was consistent and was not "political" all show an organisation that regards itself as a cheerleader for the NHS rather than an independent regulator.

    This may not be Burnham's fault of course and does indicate far more problems at the CQC than at the DH. But it is somewhat alarming that he thinks these e-mails vindicate his position rather showing the underlying problem.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    AveryLP said:



    The hole Burnham is digging just got deeper.

    Assuming he didn't sanction this whole Burnham circus, Miliband must be livid. My hunch is that Burnham will be forced to back down, but he's demeaned himself and left Labour's status as the 'party of health' teetering on the brink. I'm struggling to think how Ed can sort this mess out cleanly if at all.
    Don't be silly ! Do you think the public follow this ?

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.
    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Cameron starts bringing more women in by getting rid of one. Poor Chloe Smith ! Osborne's sacrificial lamb.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,680
    tim said:

    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
    Always wrong.
    Never learn
    Falkirk......

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023
    tim said:

    tim said:

    It's clear what Hunt was trying to divert attention from on Friday

    NHS A&E units failing to meet targets triple in a year http://t.co/pUT6Eltzro via @guardian

    It's as transparent as Osborne inventing a Libor conspiracy during his Omnishambles

    "divert attention from"

    Oh come on, that's ridiculous, even from PB's biggest tinfoil-hatter.

    Hunt wasn't trying to divert attention away from anything; or if he was, then it was a very lacklustre attempt. He didn't make a speech or a briefing; he released a tweet that hardly set off an earthquake. It was hardly noted on here, afaicr.

    Burnham turned the tweet into a story. It'll be interesting to see where this goes ...

    And I suppose you think Osborne's invention of a criminal conspiracy involving Labour politicians in the Libor rigging during the Omnishambles was coincidental too?

    Be interesting to see if Osborne is still blocking Andrea Leadsom's career today, after poor Chloe the human shield had to go
    That's a totally different matter. You're in your pathetic "look: squirrel" mode again.

    You are keen to invent conspiracies and nasty motives about anything to do with Conservative ministers or MPs. You do it repeatedly, as you did above. Accusing ministers of doing it when you are doing it yourself is rather stupid.

    So I repeat: I seriously doubt that the contentious tweet was an attempt to divert attention from anything. If it had been, there would have been much better ways of doing it.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    Of course it is just ordinary people's pension funds that will make the profits.

    "City speculators" in the main invest on behalf of other people, not themselves.
    If George gave 100% of GDP to hedge funds just imagine how wealthy pensioners would be.

    How are they guaranteeing a 6%+ dividend?
    It's not guaranteed: it what management think they will pay this year divided by the price of the shares. They have also said that they will run a progressive dividend policy (i.e. increasing in absolute terms).

    The yield will fall though, if the share price rises.

    And it could all go horribly wrong.
  • Options
    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    surbiton said:

    AveryLP said:



    The hole Burnham is digging just got deeper.

    Assuming he didn't sanction this whole Burnham circus, Miliband must be livid. My hunch is that Burnham will be forced to back down, but he's demeaned himself and left Labour's status as the 'party of health' teetering on the brink. I'm struggling to think how Ed can sort this mess out cleanly if at all.
    Don't be silly ! Do you think the public follow this ?

    I don't think the public are following this. And I don;t know in detail what's going on. But if Andy Burnham's legal move thwarts a plan to move him on from Health in the shadow cabinet., the story starts to have real-world implications.
    Andy Burnham stays in Health, and he's bad at it because of his baggage.

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    They are expecting to sell at the top end of the range.

    It's fairly typical that all IPOs are priced at around a 5-10% discount (need to let the incoming investors make some money). This is probably priced at a 15-20% discount to make sure it is successful.

    But, fundamentally, this is about putting money into private sector pension funds.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    As an amateur investor I am not planning to put my money in this one. There is the possibility of short term gains, but I am not convinced by the longer term, and the entire market is very uncertain at present. Add in the possibility of a Miliband price freeze and trade union militancy, and i would give it a miss.


    Do your own research etc.

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    My daughter is going to apply, but I doubt that she will be a long-term holder.

    I haven't made up my mind whether to apply myself though.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
    You seem to have forgotten the title and meaning of the party you support - United Kingdom Independence Party.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    They are expecting to sell at the top end of the range.

    It's fairly typical that all IPOs are priced at around a 5-10% discount (need to let the incoming investors make some money). This is probably priced at a 15-20% discount to make sure it is successful.

    But, fundamentally, this is about putting money into private sector pension funds.
    Your idea of "successful" is sell it cheap, so that the *ankers can rake in some more.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Isn't it only a ~70% marginal rate when you count a loss of the benefit as a tax? i.e. assuming their income was their base income + child benefit.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
    So, you have three choices:

    1. Pay child benefit to everyone. Why should the poor pay so that I get a nice £83 per month?

    2. Pay child benefit to no one. At least that's consistent, but I doubt it is Labour policy.

    3. Make child benefit fully taxable: see point 1.

    This is not an ideal policy, and any policy is going to have anomalies (especially if you don't have joint tax filing). Can you tell us what your solution is?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    Isn't it only a ~70% marginal rate when you count a loss of the benefit as a tax? i.e. assuming their income was their base income + child benefit.

    Indeed. A loss of benefit isn't a tax.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, I knew Saul was also Inigo Montoya but didn't see that line on the pad. That's quite cool.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
    So, you have three choices:

    1. Pay child benefit to everyone. Why should the poor pay so that I get a nice £83 per month?

    2. Pay child benefit to no one. At least that's consistent, but I doubt it is Labour policy.

    3. Make child benefit fully taxable: see point 1.

    This is not an ideal policy, and any policy is going to have anomalies (especially if you don't have joint tax filing). Can you tell us what your solution is?
    Can you tell us what your solution is?

    Blame Thatcher. :-)

    Problem solved.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    They are expecting to sell at the top end of the range.

    It's fairly typical that all IPOs are priced at around a 5-10% discount (need to let the incoming investors make some money). This is probably priced at a 15-20% discount to make sure it is successful.

    But, fundamentally, this is about putting money into private sector pension funds.
    Your idea of "successful" is sell it cheap, so that the *ankers can rake in some more.
    You are missing the point.

    Let's take a simple example. Are you sitting comfortably?

    (1) State has an asset worth £900-£1,000. State sells it to OAP Surbiton for £1,000. After the IPO, the market values the company at £950. State is happy. OAP Surbition is not. Banker is not happy because deal is perceived as a flop.

    (2) State has an asset worth £900-£1,000. State sells it to OAP Surbiton for £900. After the IPO, the market values the company at £950. State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money. Banker is happy (even though his fees are lower because they are calculated as % of the placing price) because deal is perceived as a success.

    IMV, (2) is a better outcome than (1)
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023
    Off-topic:

    A fascinating interview with Ray Mears about the hunt for Raoul Moat.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24335309

    Mears does a good job of separating the facts from his opinions, and in doing so creates a better story.

    I've had a look at Rothbury on Google maps. It's not an area I'd choose to go to ground in. A large area of woodland surrounded by moorland and a river valley. Then again, he probably didn't have much of a choice.

    From an engineering POV, I see it's near Cragside, Armstrong's home.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Senior Labour MPs are wondering whether a campaign built around a leader whose poll rating recently touched minus 35 points can actually work. But it’s a strategy of necessity rather than choice. Miliband’s inner circle now concede they simply cannot go into the election carrying huge negatives on both the economy and leadership. And given the economy is out of their hands, the only chance is to shift perceptions of Miliband himself.

    That’s a big task. According to Anthony Wells of YouGov: “Once people form an opinion of someone it’s very difficult to change. Perceptions are pretty much set. It’s almost impossible to change them.”

    Labour believe they can. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100240015/to-be-presidential-you-need-to-be-popular/
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    tim said:

    @Charles

    Couples on up to £300k will be getting Daves nanny tax break, don't play the fairness card

    Daft comment
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    Plato said:

    Senior Labour MPs are wondering whether a campaign built around a leader whose poll rating recently touched minus 35 points can actually work. But it’s a strategy of necessity rather than choice. Miliband’s inner circle now concede they simply cannot go into the election carrying huge negatives on both the economy and leadership. And given the economy is out of their hands, the only chance is to shift perceptions of Miliband himself.

    That’s a big task. According to Anthony Wells of YouGov: “Once people form an opinion of someone it’s very difficult to change. Perceptions are pretty much set. It’s almost impossible to change them.”

    Labour believe they can. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100240015/to-be-presidential-you-need-to-be-popular/

    The problem is of course he needs to deliver perfection between now and the GE. One slip and the other parties supported by a pissed off press will be running "same old Ed" stories. Still at least we can have some more Ed is crap threads.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
  • Options
    Fat_SteveFat_Steve Posts: 361
    @Tim
    "The polling evidence is that David Cameron and Andrew Lansley/Jeremy Hunt have trashed their party's reputation on health since the election, themselves the facts."

    Labour have had a lead in Health for a long time. It is priced in.
    However, the continuing presence of Andy Burnham means they can't expand it or exploit it properly. They are (he is) distracted by defending his own past.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    More Welsh Labour Continuing Failure

    "Disappointing" standards in maths among 14 to 16-year-olds in Wales must be tackled, says an education watchdog.

    Estyn's report said maths was the lowest performing core subject at key stage four - when pupils work towards GCSEs - and the lowest in the UK.

    Last year the proportion of students in Wales achieving C grade and above at GCSE lagged well behind England."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24419852
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
    Well maybe, but an issue which would still have a bit of a discount would simply become "tories bankroll city mates ". There's no easy logic in politics.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023

    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
    A good salesman always leaves his customer happy.

    A bad salesman leaves his customer unhappy.

    The reasons are obvious.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Will wee Eck Cough Up?

    Members of the Unite trade union will work to rule and stage an overtime ban at the Grangemouth plant on the Firth of Forth. They have also not ruled out staging a walkout.

    Negotiations are under way to avert an all-out strike at the site, which supplies fuel to Scotland, Northern Ireland and North East England. A strike could also threaten the BP Forties pipeline, which carries around half North Sea oil production.

    The row centres on the treatment by Ineos, the plant’s operator, of Stevie Deans, a Unite convener who was embroiled in the vote-rigging scandal over Labour’s selection of a general election candidate in Falkirk. ....

    According to a Treasury assessment, published in Sunday newspapers, even a two-day strike could lead to power cuts, harm supplies to petrol forecourts and affect long-haul flights from Scotland

    Ineos said it was taking the threat “extremely seriously” and warned the refinery was losing £10 million per month and in danger of permanent closure by 2017 without further investment. It has asked UK and Scottish ministers for grants and loan guarantees worth £150 million.

    “Given this stark reality, it is incredibly disappointing that Unite continues to pursue action to self-inflict yet more damage to the Grangemouth site,” a spokesman for the company said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10359142/Industrial-action-starts-at-Scotlands-only-oil-refinery.html

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Many?; yey you cannot name oneI see.

    I support IDS policy of smoothing out marginal rates of tax benefits so that there are no anomolies. This is the background to his benefit reforms. I am glad that you and tim have been converted to this goal, and want an end to the high withdrawal rates there were under Labour.


    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,337
    Fat_Steve said:

    @Tim
    "The polling evidence is that David Cameron and Andrew Lansley/Jeremy Hunt have trashed their party's reputation on health since the election, themselves the facts."

    Labour have had a lead in Health for a long time. It is priced in.
    However, the continuing presence of Andy Burnham means they can't expand it or exploit it properly. They are (he is) distracted by defending his own past.

    This is factually incorrect. The Conservatives caught up on health in the polls, and have now gone back to a large deficit. That's IMO more to do with people forming views about the interest of the respective parties in the NHS than with any views on Lansley or Burnham, both of whom I suspect 80% of voters would struggle to identify.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    They are expecting to sell at the top end of the range.

    It's fairly typical that all IPOs are priced at around a 5-10% discount (need to let the incoming investors make some money). This is probably priced at a 15-20% discount to make sure it is successful.

    But, fundamentally, this is about putting money into private sector pension funds.
    Your idea of "successful" is sell it cheap, so that the *ankers can rake in some more.
    You are missing the point.

    Let's take a simple example. Are you sitting comfortably?

    (1) State has an asset worth £900-£1,000. State sells it to OAP Surbiton for £1,000. After the IPO, the market values the company at £950. State is happy. OAP Surbition is not. Banker is not happy because deal is perceived as a flop.

    (2) State has an asset worth £900-£1,000. State sells it to OAP Surbiton for £900. After the IPO, the market values the company at £950. State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money. Banker is happy (even though his fees are lower because they are calculated as % of the placing price) because deal is perceived as a success.

    IMV, (2) is a better outcome than (1)
    Er....why not give it away free ?
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    JackW said:

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
    You seem to have forgotten the title and meaning of the party you support - United Kingdom Independence Party.

    I havent forgotten, but many Scots want independence for themselves and by my lights they should have it. No doubt YOU will be voting to stay locked to Engand.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    An interesting memory

    "Four years ago, when I drew attention to the poor performance of Britain's healthcare system relative to other industrialised states, Andy Burnham, then Health Secretary, called me "unpatriotic". He was, as I recall, cheered on by many of the same people who now say, "How dare the Daily Mail presume to arbitrate what constitutes patriotism?" but leave that aside. We now know that, at the very moment he was uttering those words, Burnham was presiding over the atrocities at Mid Staffs and other hospitals." http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100239886/nhs-cover-ups-are-not-a-failure-of-the-system-they-are-the-system/
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023
    tim said:

    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
    A good salesman always leaves his customer happy.

    A bad salesman leaves his customer unhappy.

    The reasons are obvious.
    It's the same PB Tory logic that says

    "Bob Crow shouldn't have a council flat, Bob Crows discount on buying his council flat should be increased to £100k"
    No, it isn't.
  • Options
    tim said:

    @Charles

    Couples on up to £300k will be getting Daves nanny tax break, don't play the fairness card

    But according to the Mail such middle class people will now have to pay into the nanny's pension.

    But will both the tax break and the pension contribution still apply in the nanny is not a UK national ?

    Weren't we promised that the whole tax system was to be simplified ?

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
    You seem to have forgotten the title and meaning of the party you support - United Kingdom Independence Party.

    I havent forgotten, but many Scots want independence for themselves and by my lights they should have it. No doubt YOU will be voting to stay locked to Engand.
    On that logic since many of the english want to stay in the EU shouldn't UKIP just disband ?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited October 2013
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    .
    So, you have three choices:

    1. Pay child benefit to everyone. Why should the poor pay so that I get a nice £83 per month?

    2. Pay child benefit to no one. At least that's consistent, but I doubt it is Labour policy.

    3. Make child benefit fully taxable: see point 1.

    This is not an ideal policy, and any policy is going to have anomalies (especially if you don't have joint tax filing). Can you tell us what your solution is?
    Anomolies ? You put it so nicely. A couple with kids , each earning £48k gets full CB. One partner earns £ 60k, another looks after the kids [ family values, remember ? ], gets zero.

    On Saturday, when it was in the news, my wife was upset that she was losing the £1000 she used to get. [ our son is severly autistic. ]But the Tories fairness agenda is weird. Paying to working mothers [ which I support ] but to couples earning upto £ 300k pa ?

    One partner stays at home and no CB if the other earns £60k. If both work and earns upto £300k, they get child support costs.

    Where's the logic ?

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited October 2013

    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
    A good salesman always leaves his customer happy.

    A bad salesman leaves his customer unhappy.

    The reasons are obvious.
    This is obviously not true in the case of a very liquid asset the price of which will go up or down unpredictably after being sold. If the seller had to be sure not to leave their customer unhappy they'd have to sell it at a humungous discount. In reality, if "happy" is defined by the value of the asset going up or down (as opposed to whether the salesman was friendly and honest or whatever), the buyer should end up unhappy in almost half the outcomes, which is what rational alternative buyers would accept.
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited October 2013
    John Rentoul has kindly reproduced the Times verbatim comments re that focus group. Lots of interesting snippets

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/10/05/i-thought-he-would-be-no-good-but-actually-he-has-surprised-me-a-bit/

  • Options
    macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    This guy Burnham has an ego the size of a house, if reports are true he has been offered a job swap with Cooper he should take it for the good of the leader and the party. If he doesn't comply Miliband should get rid completely, he really would be no great loss.
  • Options
    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited October 2013

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    From the report:
    About 30 staff still work on the site which halted output in April after bosses turned down its megawatt (MW) capacity to zero, due to weak market conditions and the relative inefficiency of the 20-year-old plant compared to newer facilities.
    I know energy markets are complex and rcs2000 or someone can correct me if I'm wrong but "due to weak market conditions" sounds like a way of saying, "we're doing OK for gas generation capacity".
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Quite.

    "A question arose about the Government’s welfare reforms and specifically David Cameron’s proposal to restrict the benefits of those under 25 who were neither in education, employment or training, and who also spurned community work.

    The opinion polls consistently suggest welfare reform is the single most popular aspect of the Government’s programme. Yet when McLoughlin advocated it, there was not a single clap to be heard, let alone applause. Instead he got the bird.

    Yet Ilkley, part of rural Yorkshire, is one of the few remaining northern Tory redoubts.

    Now you might think that the boos for the welfare reforms were generated by a disproportionately noisy claque within an otherwise supportive audience. As if to address this question among those of us listening at home, the programme’s host Jonathan Dimbleby called for a show of hands. He then pronounced the audience to be ‘overwhelming’ in its opposition.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447357/DOMINIC-LAWSON-My-question-panel-DOES-BBC-partisan-audiences.html#ixzz2h1HevUIh
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Many?; yey you cannot name oneI see.

    I support IDS policy of smoothing out marginal rates of tax benefits so that there are no anomolies. This is the background to his benefit reforms. I am glad that you and tim have been converted to this goal, and want an end to the high withdrawal rates there were under Labour.




    surbiton said:

    Tim,

    Which PB poster ever made that claim?

    I am sure that with your customary concern for accuracy that you can provide chapter and verse.


    tim said:

    That's ruined pb for the next decade -- it was bad enough when HMG sold gold at the bottom of the market -- posters will be furious at George selling the family silver at 25 per cent *below* the bottom. Seething.

    tim said:

    Looks like another gift from Osborne for his city mates

    "Last minute dash for Royal Mail shares as City speculators set to make millions"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-mail/10359459/Last-minute-dash-for-Royal-Mail-shares-as-City-speculators-set-to-make-millions.html



    DAILY MAIL COMMENT: Taxpayers, fat cats and a Royal Mail sell-out


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447491/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Taxpayers-fat-cats-Royal-Mail-sell-out.html#ixzz2h0nyY4Ek


    And thats the right wing press.

    The PB Tory hypocrites who think 50% marginal tax rates are bad but 70% rates are good?

    http://t.co/Za2dKqZPFx

    I very much doubt it
    Many. When the 50% rate was cut to 45% , it got rave reviews in PBTory land. When the CB was cut and even massaged to put the ceiling higher, that also got rave reviews.

    Converting full CB at £50k to zero at £60k can equate to 70% MRT. With 4 kids even higher.
    Well, start with Nabavi, Fitalass, Plato...............you ?

    Are you pretending no PBTory supported the cut to 45% from 50% ? or, are you pretending no PBTory supported the cuts to Child Benefit ?

    What an intellectually dishonest person you are .
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Not an energy expert (and never been involved in building a power station), but one imagines if the lights start going out the reaction from greenists will be reminiscent of the soft liberals when the London looting happened and they suddenly all discovered just how in favour of tough law enforcements and rubber bullets they were.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
    You seem to have forgotten the title and meaning of the party you support - United Kingdom Independence Party.

    I havent forgotten, but many Scots want independence for themselves and by my lights they should have it. No doubt YOU will be voting to stay locked to Engand.
    On that logic since many of the english want to stay in the EU shouldn't UKIP just disband ?
    Logic will be the death of you Alanbrooke.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    MikeK said:

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    What's Homeland?

    It's what Ukippers call England.
    And why not?
    We would like you to stay locked up in your Scottish dump, and stay there.
    You seem to have forgotten the title and meaning of the party you support - United Kingdom Independence Party.

    I havent forgotten, but many Scots want independence for themselves and by my lights they should have it. No doubt YOU will be voting to stay locked to Engand.
    On that logic since many of the english want to stay in the EU shouldn't UKIP just disband ?
    Logic will be the death of you Alanbrooke.
    Yes it's all Cameron's fault.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    surbiton said:



    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.

    How much do Germans pay for their energy?

  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Did yo

    Not an energy expert (and never been involved in building a power station), but one imagines if the lights start going out the reaction from greenists will be reminiscent of the soft liberals when the London looting happened and they suddenly all discovered just how in favour of tough law enforcements and rubber bullets they were.

    did you just make that group up Morris?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    surbiton said:

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
    And German industry is squealing like stuck pigs that Merkel's energy policy is killing them now and about to get an awful lot worse.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Mr. Bobajob, no. D'you remember the tweets that Simon Hughes (I believe) and some others sent, calling for rubber bullets to be used? There were also calls for water cannon and for the army to be put on the streets.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
    And German industry is squealing like stuck pigs that Merkel's energy policy is killing them now and about to get an awful lot worse.
    They are squealing by...............voting for her !
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Plato said:

    Quite.

    "A question arose about the Government’s welfare reforms and specifically David Cameron’s proposal to restrict the benefits of those under 25 who were neither in education, employment or training, and who also spurned community work.

    The opinion polls consistently suggest welfare reform is the single most popular aspect of the Government’s programme. Yet when McLoughlin advocated it, there was not a single clap to be heard, let alone applause. Instead he got the bird.

    Yet Ilkley, part of rural Yorkshire, is one of the few remaining northern Tory redoubts.

    Now you might think that the boos for the welfare reforms were generated by a disproportionately noisy claque within an otherwise supportive audience. As if to address this question among those of us listening at home, the programme’s host Jonathan Dimbleby called for a show of hands. He then pronounced the audience to be ‘overwhelming’ in its opposition.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2447357/DOMINIC-LAWSON-My-question-panel-DOES-BBC-partisan-audiences.html#ixzz2h1HevUIh
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Quite what exactly?

    Was it this bit?

    "Labour has one quite legitimate grouse about the way Question Time panels are constructed. Despite the formation of a Coalition Government between Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, the panel is still based on a pre-Coalition parliamentary arrangement, with one of each from the Tories and the Lib Dems and one from Labour.

    "What this tends to mean in practice is that the two members of the Coalition (especially if one or more has a government job) agree with each other on the central issues and gang up on the Labour representative.

    "I gather that the Labour Party has formally complained about this, arguing that the Government should have one representative (as in the winding up of a Commons debate). It received a complete brush-off from the BBC."

    Surely not Lawson's call to check audience members against membership lists of political parties, since that would mean publishing membership lists of political parties.

  • Options
    surbiton said:

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
    That will be the Germany which has built / is building about 15 new coal power stations.

    http://www.platts.com/latest-news/coal/london/analysis-german-4-gw-new-coal-plants-in-testing-26170384

    Labour supporter demolished by energy facts. Again.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:



    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.

    How much do Germans pay for their energy?

    Is German industry more or less successful than "cheap energy" Britain ?

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023

    Charles said:

    State is ok - it has received £900 plus OAP Surbiton's pension is worth £50 more, meaning that he is less likely to claim benefits in future. OAP Surbiton is happy because he has made money.

    On this logic the government may as well go right ahead and give away money to wealthy voters. They'll be happy because they get free money, and the state is happy because it's less likely to have to pay them benefits. Genius, everybody wins!

    Meanwhile in the land of non-bonkers economics, the state should get as much money out of Surbiton in exchange for its asset as Surbiton is willing to pay, and if he's unhappy later then that's his problem.
    A good salesman always leaves his customer happy.

    A bad salesman leaves his customer unhappy.

    The reasons are obvious.
    This is obviously not true in the case of a very liquid asset the price of which will go up or down unpredictably after being sold. If the seller had to be sure not to leave their customer unhappy they'd have to sell it at a humungous discount. In reality, if "happy" is defined by the value of the asset going up or down (as opposed to whether the salesman was friendly and honest or whatever), the buyer should end up unhappy in almost half the outcomes, which is what rational alternative buyers would accept.
    It is still true, because:
    *) 'happiness' is predicated on more than what might be temporary blips in price. If you feel like you've had a bad deal, you might even rue a profit. ("It could have been larger; I was screwed.").
    *) People are not rational.
    *) Even if the price depresses, people are aware that it often rises again over time.

    A good salesman explains the fact the price may go up and/or down, then sucks through his teeth and gives a small discount. The customer is happy with a discount, and the sale still goes through. The customer feels as though they have a little insurance against price decreases, and more chance of a profit.

    A customer treated in this manner is much more likely to feel satisfied about the deal, and also do more business with the salesman in future.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
    And German industry is squealing like stuck pigs that Merkel's energy policy is killing them now and about to get an awful lot worse.
    They are squealing by...............voting for her !
    Energy is currently one of the hottest topics in Germany, Merkel has a real weak spot on the subject especially since she accelerated the shutdown of nuclear. The "success" of Germany's alternative energy porgramme can be judged below.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/high-costs-and-errors-of-german-transition-to-renewable-energy-a-920288.html
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Mr. Bobajob, no. D'you remember the tweets that Simon Hughes (I believe) and some others sent, calling for rubber bullets to be used? There were also calls for water cannon and for the army to be put on the streets.

    When Simon Hughes called for water cannons, I was gobsmacked.

    It got as far as Oz http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2835178.html
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,984
    Utterly OT, but I find it interesting: 'food addiction' being used as an excuse [NB this is a separate and more widespread idea than bing eating disorder]:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-24402163

    It's important politically for a few reasons. Obviously a horde of fat people claiming cake is like crack will increase pressure on the NHS. In addition, if you over-feed kids (and one suspects those incapable of restricting their own diet would have difficulty doing it for anyone else) then they end up with more fat cells which permanently increases their baseline 'fat level'. That'll then increase the rate of diabetes (I forget which type) and lead to increased health costs down the line, as well as increasing the likelihood of issues in school from bullying and self-esteem (which tends to be tricky during adolescence for many people anyway).
  • Options

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    From the report:
    About 30 staff still work on the site which halted output in April after bosses turned down its megawatt (MW) capacity to zero, due to weak market conditions and the relative inefficiency of the 20-year-old plant compared to newer facilities.
    I know energy markets are complex and rcs2000 or someone can correct me if I'm wrong but "due to weak market conditions" sounds like a way of saying, "we're doing OK for gas generation capacity".

    It may well be in the interest of the power companies to have power shortages rather than to operate marginal capacity at a loss.

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    edited October 2013
    surbiton said:

    RobD said:

    surbiton said:



    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.

    How much do Germans pay for their energy?

    Is German industry more or less successful than "cheap energy" Britain ?

    German industry's success is based on good technical products and an cheap Euro. If you followed what's happening in Germany you'd accept that energy intensive industries such as steelmaking or chemicals are lobbying hard to get market reforms or else they will offshore future investment. The rest of German industry is also paying more attention to energy since the forecast price increases from energy taxes will be a major hit to profits.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,023
    surbiton said:

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    It's a big problem. I can't help but feel that the market now favours green energy by too great a degree, which basically means we are absolutely stuffed wrt baseload.

    It's sad to see a power station you helped (in a very, very small way) build being stripped and the plant taken abroad because it still has good working life in it.
    Turbines mate ! Solar panels. Last year the world capacity of solar energy went up by 102%. In one day in July, Germany generated 5.1TWh, a new world record.

    Germany is not a very warm place.

    In one January day, Germany produced 5 TWH from wind power alone.

    Angela Merkel also balances budgets.
    What was the cost of that provided energy, taking into account subsidies and other items?

    And solar power does not depend on 'warmth'; it is light intensity. There is a difference. Indeed, some types of solar panel perform better when cooler. ISTR one large scale desert system that pumps water behind the panels to cool them, and the warm water was then used for other purposes. So they generated both electricity *and* hot water (not steam).

    Although there are so many different types of tech in solar panels nowadays, that's probably changed.

    Again, I suggest people thinking we can provide all our energy from such means, should read the following and perform their own calculations.
    http://www.withouthotair.com/c27/page_203.shtml

    I think many on here would favour Plan G. But then you need to think of the implications. ;-)
  • Options

    And today's energy news from the real world:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/news/10719298.Power_station_to_be_demolished/

    Only 20 years old and once the largest gas power station in the world.

    Looks like the gas power stations are now joining the coal, oil and nuclear stations on the scrap heap.

    What we need is a method to generate electricity from all the hot air politicians produce on the subject.

    From the report:
    About 30 staff still work on the site which halted output in April after bosses turned down its megawatt (MW) capacity to zero, due to weak market conditions and the relative inefficiency of the 20-year-old plant compared to newer facilities.
    I know energy markets are complex and rcs2000 or someone can correct me if I'm wrong but "due to weak market conditions" sounds like a way of saying, "we're doing OK for gas generation capacity".
    It may well be in the interest of the power companies to have power shortages rather than to operate marginal capacity at a loss.



    Especially if governments are likely to interfere in price setting.

    I wonder if we'll see more inefficent capacity removed before 2015.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    "The NHS should not be there to "pick up the pieces" after people fall ill because of their lifestyle choices, said the Welsh health minister.

    Mark Drakeford said people needed to understand the consequences of becoming obese or drinking too much.

    He backed one Welsh health board's policy of making overweight people attend health courses before being put on treatment waiting lists."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24421275

    Will he extend it to smokers, drug users, owners of tattoos and breast enhancement?
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    "The NHS should not be there to "pick up the pieces" after people fall ill because of their lifestyle choices, said the Welsh health minister.

    Mark Drakeford said people needed to understand the consequences of becoming obese or drinking too much.

    He backed one Welsh health board's policy of making overweight people attend health courses before being put on treatment waiting lists."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24421275

    Will he extend it to smokers, drug users, owners of tattoos and breast enhancement?

    So if you have say cancer - you have to lose weight first? What a stupid idea. Then we go down the whole undeserving sick tunnel - if you can't be undeserving poor, surely being sick is a free pass no matter how much you've abused yourself [I accept that being an alcoholic and killing a donated liver make you a poorer outcome prospect a la George Best].
  • Options
    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Here we go

    Tim Reid @TimReidBBC
    Scot Secretary Michael Moore has been sacked in a libDem reshuffle. He is to be replaced by the LibDem chief whip Alistair Carmichael.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    Floater said:
    Usual bollocks from someone who has no clue. Given we have nothing from oil at present we can only improve our position. Given OPEC will never force prices down , what impact will any of their decisions make to North Sea. manufactured bull shit as ever. How is it possible that only Scotland in the whole world would be cursed by having valuable natural resources.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    Financier said:

    Will wee Eck Cough Up?

    Members of the Unite trade union will work to rule and stage an overtime ban at the Grangemouth plant on the Firth of Forth. They have also not ruled out staging a walkout.

    Negotiations are under way to avert an all-out strike at the site, which supplies fuel to Scotland, Northern Ireland and North East England. A strike could also threaten the BP Forties pipeline, which carries around half North Sea oil production.

    The row centres on the treatment by Ineos, the plant’s operator, of Stevie Deans, a Unite convener who was embroiled in the vote-rigging scandal over Labour’s selection of a general election candidate in Falkirk. ....

    According to a Treasury assessment, published in Sunday newspapers, even a two-day strike could lead to power cuts, harm supplies to petrol forecourts and affect long-haul flights from Scotland

    Ineos said it was taking the threat “extremely seriously” and warned the refinery was losing £10 million per month and in danger of permanent closure by 2017 without further investment. It has asked UK and Scottish ministers for grants and loan guarantees worth £150 million.

    “Given this stark reality, it is incredibly disappointing that Unite continues to pursue action to self-inflict yet more damage to the Grangemouth site,” a spokesman for the company said.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10359142/Industrial-action-starts-at-Scotlands-only-oil-refinery.html

    Will the UK purse holders stump up you surely mean......... ooops it is not in or supplying London , no money and try to blame SNP
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    Financier said:

    "The NHS should not be there to "pick up the pieces" after people fall ill because of their lifestyle choices, said the Welsh health minister.

    Mark Drakeford said people needed to understand the consequences of becoming obese or drinking too much.

    He backed one Welsh health board's policy of making overweight people attend health courses before being put on treatment waiting lists."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24421275

    Will he extend it to smokers, drug users, owners of tattoos and breast enhancement?

    Absolutely sick , when will they be starting selection of the undeserving poor to get put on death lists as punishment for crimes against health. You could not make it up.
This discussion has been closed.