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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Brexit Irish issue: Ex-British Army officer who served the

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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Even with Trump's very high shame threshold, I cannot see his failure to receive an invitation to the late Sen John McCain's memorial as anything other than deeply embarrassing, possibly damagingly so. That two of McCain's most high profile opponents – Bush Jr and Obama – have both been asked to deliver eulogies doubles down the pain on Trumpton. His absence will be conspicuous.
    It’s embarrassing but it’s the price he has paid for a lack of basic decency towards a political opponent. In this case, revenge really has been a dish eaten very cold indeed.
    I'd like to believe it will hurt him but to be honest I think Trump will brush this off quite easily. Best hope of seeing Trump suffer, at least within the realms of decency, is him losing badly come the next election, although obviously that might not happen.
    Agreed.

    (If I were to tease you, I’d say he’s very like Corbyn in that regard. But I can imagine your eye-rolling already.......).
  • Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    I would never have known you were Jewish. Till you told us.
  • I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:



    There is nothing wrong with being briefed but MPs should explain the sources of their information and not simply act as mouthpieces for others. That applies to Corbyn as much as to anyone else.

    An enterprising journalist might want to check some of his Parliamentary speeches and see whether he is in the habit of merely repeating pre-written lines fed to him by others.
    Yeah I have heard that as well, haven't checked it out myself but it seems plausible that they didn't use exact phrases. I took it as more a general they used the same arguments/points rather than being specific, although that is a generous interpretation. This is the bit I am least sure about.

    AFAIK there was no singling out of Jewish MPs, happy to be corrected here (maybe I've missed something) but my impression was he was talking about (to use simply labelling) the pro Israeli side in a particular debate, there are far more MPs with (what could be labelled) a pro Israeli POV than there are Jewish MPs. Edit: Wouldn't there have been some Jewish MPs not on the other side of the debate anyway? I suppose it depends when the debate was but there have been Jewish MPs who have been strong critics of Israel.

    Claiming that pro Israeli MPs would push pro Israeli talking points and that the Israeli embassy would also assist in pushing pro Israeli talking points isn't controversial IMO. I assume similar would happen with a fair few countries were you to swap Israel for another country in that sentence.

    Corbyn and those around him aren't pro Russia, certainly not in the way some MPs are pro Israel (and not in the way the right like to talk about) but people are happy to make various accusations about Corbyn, those around him and various Russian people in power. Would this suddenly be racist if the Russians were not (mostly) White people or would the reasons people push this line still exist independently of their suddenly different ethnicity?
    I don’t have answers to your questions about what happened in the debate. Perhaps let’s wait for more facts to emerge.

    Claiming that pro-Israeli MPs would make pro-Israeli points and got assistance from the Israeli Embassy is fine if it is true. It is not fine if it is not true. Then it is an assumption, possibly a prejudiced one.

    That is why it is necessary to be clear what Corbyn claimed and what evidence he had for his claims.
    Assumptions can be all kinds of things but we don't make similarly negative assumptions about those people who assume negative things about Corbyn and people around him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    T

    The real problem is that these solutions are not really compatible with what our government has already signed up for. That was a mistake.

    That is the nub - we can do all sorts of things, as you say registration being however a pre-requisite for most of them. We don't seem to have started this. Plus the scope for c**k-up has got to be monumental in as you say such a frighteningly large job.
    I can't see FOM stopping before any transition period now. If we wanted it to work from March next year we would have had to start work a year ago at least.
    Didn't we agree last December that FOM would continue during any transition period anyway? The whole point of the transition is that all rules (including FOM and payment) continue as is even though we've left.
    Well yes, but we only have a transition period if we have a deal. No deal, no transition, no freedom of movement.
    No, the transition period just requires agreement on citizens rights, payments and the Irish border.

    A final free trade deal will almost certainly not be agreed before the transition but be worked on during the transition period
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    T

    The real problem is that these solutions are not really compatible with what our government has already signed up for. That was a mistake.

    That is the nub - we can do all sorts of things, as you say registration being however a pre-requisite for most of them. We don't seem to have started this. Plus the scope for c**k-up has got to be monumental in as you say such a frighteningly large job.
    I can't see FOM stopping before any transition period now. If we wanted it to work from March next year we would have had to start work a year ago at least.
    Didn't we agree last December that FOM would continue during any transition period anyway? The whole point of the transition is that all rules (including FOM and payment) continue as is even though we've left.
    Well yes, but we only have a transition period if we have a deal. No deal, no transition, no freedom of movement.
    Well agreed yes but your comment was "FOM stopping before any transition period" ... we've already agreed that won't happen. If there's no transition then there's an almighty long list of things we need to resolve but that simply won't happen. May will fold like a pack of cards and sign whatever Barnier gives her. And enough in Parliament will fold too.
    This could be clearer but the position as I understand it from Chequers is that any FOM during the transition period will be restricted. The suggestion is that you will need proof of a job or an education place before you are allowed to come rather than having a period to look for one when you get here. What I think we can infer from the announcement today is that those who come during that period may not qualify for the 5 year right of residency either but it is not entirely clear because there is also reference to "working up" to the 5 years and it may be that this could happen after any transition period is finished.
    The UK would be going back on what it agreed in principle December last year in that case.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692

    I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    This is the new 'We've abolished boom and bust'

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1034426547787235328

    To be fair in the article he said that while it should be the easiest, it is possible that politics will get in the way. That's happened.
    He doesn’t look well.
    Easiest blood pressure check in history.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    An interesting article on the timing of the Corbyn antisemitism attacks, of course, it is all pure chance. After all we have all been conned over the past 30 years or so, in his anti-apartheid activities, his anti racism stance, his anti fascism was all a cover for his antisemitism.

    https://medium.com/@patrickelliot/the-annual-assault-of-antisemitism-part-1-3cbd82f0c7c3
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    I would never have known you were Jewish. Till you told us.
    I’m not. Other than through ancestry. No idea whether Israel would regard me as Jewish. My family on both sides have been Catholics since forever, apart from the Jewish branch, obviously.
  • HemmeligHemmelig Posts: 14
    Nobody seriously believes Jereym Corbyn is an anti semite, only strange people like Mike Smithson.
  • I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
    Being dismissive is the lefts way

    JHB has made a public pronouncement that Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist.

    What should Corbyn do about it
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Yeah I have heard that as well, haven't checked it out myself but it seems plausible that they didn't use exact phrases. I took it as more a general they used the same arguments/points rather than being specific, although that is a generous interpretation. This is the bit I am least sure about.

    AFAIK there was no singling out of Jewish MPs, happy to be corrected here (maybe I've missed something) but my impression was he was talking about (to use simply labelling) the pro Israeli side in a particular debate, there are far more MPs with (what could be labelled) a pro Israeli POV than there are Jewish MPs. Edit: Wouldn't there have been some Jewish MPs not on the other side of the debate anyway? I suppose it depends when the debate was but there have been Jewish MPs who have been strong critics of Israel.

    Claiming that pro Israeli MPs would push pro Israeli talking points and that the Israeli embassy would also assist in pushing pro Israeli talking points isn't controversial IMO. I assume similar would happen with a fair few countries were you to swap Israel for another country in that sentence.

    Corbyn and those around him aren't pro Russia, certainly not in the way some MPs are pro Israel (and not in the way the right like to talk about) but people are happy to make various accusations about Corbyn, those around him and various Russian people in power. Would this suddenly be racist if the Russians were not (mostly) White people or would the reasons people push this line still exist independently of their suddenly different ethnicity?
    I don’t have answers to your questions about what happened in the debate. Perhaps let’s wait for more facts to emerge.

    Claiming that pro-Israeli MPs would make pro-Israeli points and got assistance from the Israeli Embassy is fine if it is true. It is not fine if it is not true. Then it is an assumption, possibly a prejudiced one.

    That is why it is necessary to be clear what Corbyn claimed and what evidence he had for his claims.
    Assumptions can be all kinds of things but we don't make similarly negative assumptions about those people who assume negative things about Corbyn and people around him.
    Isn’t that because there is some evidence for what people are saying about him? If someone were to say Corbyn was a cat strangler I would think poorly of them if there was no evidence for that claim.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited August 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited August 2018
    I was just going to post exactly the same. After wondering why she went on an Africa trip dressed as one of the staff from Hi-de-Hi. Who goes to Africa wearing plain primary colours?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692

    I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
    Being dismissive is the lefts way

    JHB has made a public pronouncement that Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist.

    What should Corbyn do about it
    Firstly Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has compared Jeremy Corbyn to Enoch Powell - while defending Israel’s racist Nation State Law which will segregate Jews and Arabs

    We will therefore not be lectured by a man who defends Israel’s racist apartheid regime

    2ndly JHB is a shock Jock

    So I Presume Jezza will ignore her and let Owen Jones continue to own her
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    Even with Trump's very high shame threshold, I cannot see his failure to receive an invitation to the late Sen John McCain's memorial as anything other than deeply embarrassing, possibly damagingly so. That two of McCain's most high profile opponents – Bush Jr and Obama – have both been asked to deliver eulogies doubles down the pain on Trumpton. His absence will be conspicuous.
    It’s embarrassing but it’s the price he has paid for a lack of basic decency towards a political opponent. In this case, revenge really has been a dish eaten very cold indeed.
    Indeed so. In so many ways, McCain has had the last laugh.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
    Do you mean in synagogues? I was thinking of political meetings.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    nielh said:

    Mogg is demonstrating why he is a backbencher.

    Yep. Always worth remembering that his party has never entrusted him with even junior ministerial office.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited August 2018
    Ah, Ireland.

    This whole conundrum is an example of the consequences of the British government’s reluctance to treat former colonies as independent countries. If we go back to 1922, was it really sensible to permit freedom of movement with a state with irredentist aspirations? Was it sensible to give all inhabitants of the empire freedom of movement? Is it really sensible today to grant voting rights to non-citizens who happen to be born in former colonies?

    We have never thought about nation-building in the same way as the French. That insouciance has consequences.

    Then again, if the Unionists had settled for 4 rather than 6 counties we probably wouldn’t be in this mess.
  • IanB2 said:

    I was just going to post exactly the same. After wondering why she went on an Africa trip dressed as one of the staff from Hi-de-Hi. Who goes to Africa wearing plain primary colours?
    TM does and again good for her.

    She is her own person with lots of quirks but she is a grown up and does it her way
  • I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
    Being dismissive is the lefts way

    JHB has made a public pronouncement that Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist.

    What should Corbyn do about it
    Firstly Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has compared Jeremy Corbyn to Enoch Powell - while defending Israel’s racist Nation State Law which will segregate Jews and Arabs

    We will therefore not be lectured by a man who defends Israel’s racist apartheid regime

    2ndly JHB is a shock Jock

    So I Presume Jezza will ignore her and let Owen Jones continue to own her
    With respect I shall ignore that post
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    FAO Big G Your post is incorrect She said I believe..........

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    She said I believe..........

    Let’s test the theory,

    If she is so sure, why not say it,

    Say, “Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite”

    I double dare her, go on

    Don’t say I “believe” he is

    Kids “believe” Santa is real, does that mean he is?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    RoyalBlue said:

    Ah, Ireland.

    This whole conundrum is an example of the consequences of the British government’s reluctance to treat former colonies as independent countries. If we go back to 1922, was it really sensible to permit freedom of movement with a state with irredentist aspirations? Was it sensible to give all inhabitants of the empire freedom of movement? Is it really sensible today to grant voting rights to non-citizens who happen to be born in former colonies?

    We have never thought about nation-building in the same way as the French. That insouciance has consequences.

    Then again, if the Unionists had settled for 4 rather than 6 counties we probably wouldn’t be in this mess.

    That old Irish joke comes to mind.

    “I wouldn’t start from here.”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Hemmelig said:

    Nobody seriously believes Jereym Corbyn is an anti semite, only strange people like Mike Smithson.

    I seriously believe Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite; or at least has stepped over the line into anti-Semitism.

    And I'm not strange.

    Well, maybe a little bit ...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
    Being dismissive is the lefts way

    JHB has made a public pronouncement that Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist.

    What should Corbyn do about it
    Firstly Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has compared Jeremy Corbyn to Enoch Powell - while defending Israel’s racist Nation State Law which will segregate Jews and Arabs

    We will therefore not be lectured by a man who defends Israel’s racist apartheid regime

    2ndly JHB is a shock Jock

    So I Presume Jezza will ignore her and let Owen Jones continue to own her
    The law Israel has recently passed is absolutely appalling but it does not introduce segregation.

    The trouble is you won’t be lectured on this by anyone, not even voters here who - and this is something quite unprecedented - have taken to protesting outside Parliament about the attitude your party’s leader has taken. You won’t listen to the unions who fund you or your elected deputy Leader or your MPs or the Jewish Labour Movement or the voters of Barnet or many other decent Labour people who are troubled and have been begging the leadership to take effective and timely action.

    One day all this hubristic not listening and thinking your leader is beyond all criticism is going to come back and bite you on the bum - hard. It may not be for quite a while. But it will happen. Nemesis is the word. The only question is how much harm Labour is doing to its reputation and politics generally in the meanwhile.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    OchEye said:

    An interesting article on the timing of the Corbyn antisemitism attacks, of course, it is all pure chance. After all we have all been conned over the past 30 years or so, in his anti-apartheid activities, his anti racism stance, his anti fascism was all a cover for his antisemitism.

    https://medium.com/@patrickelliot/the-annual-assault-of-antisemitism-part-1-3cbd82f0c7c3

    Last time I looked at The Jewish Chronicle were running articles on 'what to wear for Shul on Rosh Hashanah' (the Jewish New Year)!
  • FAO Big G Your post is incorrect She said I believe..........

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    She said I believe..........

    Let’s test the theory,

    If she is so sure, why not say it,

    Say, “Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite”

    I double dare her, go on

    Don’t say I “believe” he is

    Kids “believe” Santa is real, does that mean he is?

    You need to listen to the whole broadcast and you will see she accused Corbyn as an anti semite and racist and invited him to sue her live on air. So upto Corbyn now
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    edited August 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Yeah I have heard that as well, haven't checked it out myself but it seems plausible that they didn't use exact phrases. I took it as more a general they used the same arguments/points rather than being specific, although that is a generous interpretation. This is the bit I am least sure about.

    AFAIK there was no singling out of Jewish MPs, happy to be corrected here (maybe I've missed something) but my impression was he was talking about (to use simply labelling) the pro Israeli side in a particular debate, there are far more MPs with (what could be labelled) a pro Israeli POV than there are Jewish MPs. Edit: Wouldn't there have been some Jewish MPs not on the other side of the debate anyway? I suppose it depends when the debate was but there have been Jewish MPs who have been strong critics of Israel.

    Claiming that pro Israeli MPs would push pro Israeli talking points and that the Israeli embassy would also assist in pushing pro Israeli talking points isn't controversial IMO. I assume similar would happen with a fair few countries were you to swap Israel for another country in that sentence.

    Corbyn and those around him aren't pro Russia, certainly not in the way some MPs are pro Israel (and not in the way the right like to talk about) but people are happy to make various accusations about Corbyn, those around him and various Russian people in power. Would this suddenly be racist if the Russians were not (mostly) White people or would the reasons people push this line still exist independently of their suddenly different ethnicity?
    I don’t have answers to your questions about what happened in the debate. Perhaps let’s wait for more facts to emerge.

    Claiming that pro-Israeli MPs would make pro-Israeli points and got assistance from the Israeli Embassy is fine if it is true. It is not fine if it is not true. Then it is an assumption, possibly a prejudiced one.

    That is why it is necessary to be clear what Corbyn claimed and what evidence he had for his claims.
    Assumptions can be all kinds of things but we don't make similarly negative assumptions about those people who assume negative things about Corbyn and people around him.
    Isn’t that because there is some evidence for what people are saying about him? If someone were to say Corbyn was a cat strangler I would think poorly of them if there was no evidence for that claim.
    He pogos on non existent pet rabbits

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/440030/tabloids/the-sunday-sport-teenage-jeremy-corbyn-squashed-girls-pet-rabbit-with-his-pogo-stick.html
  • Cyclefree said:

    I haven't spoken too much on Corbyn and his problems but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters who do not listen to the detailed and at times complex rebuttals from his supporters.

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    but there is no doubt the words from the former Chief Rabbi will resonate with most voters....... even though it repeats many of the now discredited attack lines

    I disagree most people have actual lives to get on with

    and as for JHB well its JHB

    Is that the best you can come up with Big G

    I mean seriously
    Being dismissive is the lefts way

    JHB has made a public pronouncement that Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist.

    What should Corbyn do about it
    Firstly Rabbi Jonathan Sacks has compared Jeremy Corbyn to Enoch Powell - while defending Israel’s racist Nation State Law which will segregate Jews and Arabs

    We will therefore not be lectured by a man who defends Israel’s racist apartheid regime

    2ndly JHB is a shock Jock

    So I Presume Jezza will ignore her and let Owen Jones continue to own her
    The law Israel has recently passed is absolutely appalling but it does not introduce segregation.

    The trouble is you won’t be lectured on this by anyone, not even voters here who - and this is something quite unprecedented - have taken to protesting outside Parliament about the attitude your party’s leader has taken. You won’t listen to the unions who fund you or your elected deputy Leader or your MPs or the Jewish Labour Movement or the voters of Barnet or many other decent Labour people who are troubled and have been begging the leadership to take effective and timely action.

    One day all this hubristic not listening and thinking your leader is beyond all criticism is going to come back and bite you on the bum - hard. It may not be for quite a while. But it will happen. Nemesis is the word. The only question is how much harm Labour is doing to its reputation and politics generally in the meanwhile.
    Well said Cyclefree
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Anazina said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Ah, Ireland.

    This whole conundrum is an example of the consequences of the British government’s reluctance to treat former colonies as independent countries. If we go back to 1922, was it really sensible to permit freedom of movement with a state with irredentist aspirations? Was it sensible to give all inhabitants of the empire freedom of movement? Is it really sensible today to grant voting rights to non-citizens who happen to be born in former colonies?

    We have never thought about nation-building in the same way as the French. That insouciance has consequences.

    Then again, if the Unionists had settled for 4 rather than 6 counties we probably wouldn’t be in this mess.

    That old Irish joke comes to mind.

    “I wouldn’t start from here.”
    Nothing could be more apt!
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.
    . We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
    Do you mean in synagogues? I was thinking of political meetings.
    As a humanist atheist who has zero interest in religion and who has never entered a synagogue or mosque (and only a temple and a church while a tourist or at a wedding) I have learned only fairly recently that gender separation in religious and politics meetings still exists. With such preposterously backward practices, these religions deserve to lose all their followers. Shame on those who indulge them.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 320
    Why is the far left ideologically anti-Semitic, or cutting to the chase, why does it hate Jews, whether we are British or israeli?

    The whole essence of the left's philosophy is that people should be dependent on the state. The state should control your work, your housing, your health, your education, and even if Corbyn recent speech is to be believed, broadcasting and the media.

    By contrast, if there is one unifying factor to the Jewish view of the world, it is self-reliance, and that is irrespective of whether it is individual self-reliance or communal self-reliance, and in the case of Israel state self-reliance. So the very existence of the the Jewish people, and their very survival, is anathema to Corbyn and his ilk, because their survival constantly proves his fundamental philosophy wrong, and without out us, life would be so much simpler for him.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    edited August 2018
    TOPPING said:

    There are fewer than 300,000 Jews in the UK. I can't believe that more than 250 of them still vote Labour so I really don't see what harm this will all do him.

    But I'd say there are more than 3,000,000 Labour voters - liberal, metropolitan in outlook, wholly decent people - who will be very, very uneasy at the notion of putting their X on the ballot paper to make an anti-semite our Prime Minister.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692

    FAO Big G Your post is incorrect She said I believe..........

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    She said I believe..........

    Let’s test the theory,

    If she is so sure, why not say it,

    Say, “Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite”

    I double dare her, go on

    Don’t say I “believe” he is

    Kids “believe” Santa is real, does that mean he is?

    You need to listen to the whole broadcast and you will see she accused Corbyn as an anti semite and racist and invited him to sue her live on air. So upto Corbyn now
    From what i read she said "I believe Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" and invited him to sue her live on air.

    if i am incorrect and she said "Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" that is completely different


    Are you sure??
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    TOPPING said:

    There are fewer than 300,000 Jews in the UK. I can't believe that more than 250 of them still vote Labour so I really don't see what harm this will all do him.

    But I'd say there are more than 3,000,000 Labour voters - liberal, metropolitan in outlook, wholly decent people - who will be very, very uneasy at the notion of putting their X on the ballot paper to make an anti-semite our Prime Minister.
    Further, whilst Labour has been consumed by this internal row for the whole of the summer, one of the most chaotic and directionless governments of the modern era has gone almost completely unopposed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692

    FAO Big G Your post is incorrect She said I believe..........

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    She said I believe..........

    Let’s test the theory,

    If she is so sure, why not say it,

    Say, “Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite”

    I double dare her, go on

    Don’t say I “believe” he is

    Kids “believe” Santa is real, does that mean he is?

    You need to listen to the whole broadcast and you will see she accused Corbyn as an anti semite and racist and invited him to sue her live on air. So upto Corbyn now
    From what i read she said "I believe Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" and invited him to sue her live on air.

    if i am incorrect and she said "Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" that is completely different


    Are you sure??
    https://order-order.com/2018/08/28/julia-hartley-brewer-corbyn-anti-semitic-racist-sue/

    I believe and I think
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Let’s see. Jeremy Corbyn:

    1) Counts Jewhaters as his friends
    2) Attends commemorative events for those who murdered Jews
    3) Speaks at conferences in which other speakers have called for the destruction of Israel and by implication its Jewish inhabitants
    4) Has accused British Jews of not understanding English irony

    Anti-semitism is an unhelpful term. Let’s follow Orwell’s rules for good English usage and call Jeremy Corbyn what he is:

    A Jewhater.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    "Corbyn is an Anti-Semite, Sue Me" says Julia.

    On what basis is Corbyn meant to sue ?

    Corbyn has suffered no financial harm.

    And, surely no politician would be wise to sue under the heading of harm to reputation.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    edited August 2018
    franklyn said:

    Why is the far left ideologically anti-Semitic, or cutting to the chase, why does it hate Jews, whether we are British or israeli?

    The whole essence of the left's philosophy is that people should be dependent on the state. The state should control your work, your housing, your health, your education, and even if Corbyn recent speech is to be believed, broadcasting and the media.

    By contrast, if there is one unifying factor to the Jewish view of the world, it is self-reliance, and that is irrespective of whether it is individual self-reliance or communal self-reliance, and in the case of Israel state self-reliance. So the very existence of the the Jewish people, and their very survival, is anathema to Corbyn and his ilk, because their survival constantly proves his fundamental philosophy wrong, and without out us, life would be so much simpler for him.

    We arent

    We dont
  • Hemmelig said:

    Nobody seriously believes Jereym Corbyn is an anti semite, only strange people like Mike Smithson.

    Did you read the Times or Guardian last week?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    franklyn said:

    Why is the far left ideologically anti-Semitic, or cutting to the chase, why does it hate Jews, whether we are British or israeli?

    The whole essence of the left's philosophy is that people should be dependent on the state. The state should control your work, your housing, your health, your education, and even if Corbyn recent speech is to be believed, broadcasting and the media.

    By contrast, if there is one unifying factor to the Jewish view of the world, it is self-reliance, and that is irrespective of whether it is individual self-reliance or communal self-reliance, and in the case of Israel state self-reliance. So the very existence of the the Jewish people, and their very survival, is anathema to Corbyn and his ilk, because their survival constantly proves his fundamental philosophy wrong, and without out us, life would be so much simpler for him.

    You of all people then should be very wary of stereotyping.

    Some of the most celebrated Jews in history were from the 'left'
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    RoyalBlue said:

    Let’s see. Jeremy Corbyn:

    1) Counts Jewhaters as his friends
    2) Attends commemorative events for those who murdered Jews
    3) Speaks at conferences in which other speakers have called for the destruction of Israel and by implication its Jewish inhabitants
    4) Has accused British Jews of not understanding English irony

    Anti-semitism is an unhelpful term. Let’s follow Orwell’s rules for good English usage and call Jeremy Corbyn what he is:

    A Jewhater.

    1 Incorrect "friends" is a term he uses even to people he fundamentally disagrees with
    2 He doesnt
    3 He hasnt agreed with them
    4 He hasnt you do not understand irony

    You have cheapened the term anti semite and jew hater

    You should be ashamed.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    TOPPING said:

    There are fewer than 300,000 Jews in the UK. I can't believe that more than 250 of them still vote Labour so I really don't see what harm this will all do him.

    But I'd say there are more than 3,000,000 Labour voters - liberal, metropolitan in outlook, wholly decent people - who will be very, very uneasy at the notion of putting their X on the ballot paper to make an anti-semite our Prime Minister.
    Exactly, even if we have got to the stage where to suggest that some of us goyim think that what happened to Anne Frank was suboptimal feels like naive, godwinning, crypto zionist, hodgecomparison claptrap.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
    Do you mean in synagogues? I was thinking of political meetings.
    Synagogues certainly-but also at weddings funerals and all gatherings of orthodox Jews.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited August 2018
    .
  • FAO Big G Your post is incorrect She said I believe..........

    It is interesting that Julia Hartley Brewer in her LBC radio programme directly accused Corbyn live on air as being anti semetic and a racist and invited him to sue her. Over to you Corbyn

    She said I believe..........

    Let’s test the theory,

    If she is so sure, why not say it,

    Say, “Jeremy Corbyn is an anti Semite”

    I double dare her, go on

    Don’t say I “believe” he is

    Kids “believe” Santa is real, does that mean he is?

    You need to listen to the whole broadcast and you will see she accused Corbyn as an anti semite and racist and invited him to sue her live on air. So upto Corbyn now
    From what i read she said "I believe Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" and invited him to sue her live on air.

    if i am incorrect and she said "Corbyn is an anti semite and racist" that is completely different


    Are you sure??
    JHB on talk radio today

    'I believe Jeremy Corbyn is anti semetic and a racist and he can sue me.

    She added

    'I think you are an anti semite and take me to court and get it out in the open'

    No ambiguity there
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Deleted.
  • It is possible to think that both Pence and Corbyn are beyond the pale.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Excellent interview with TM by Michael Crick. 'Aren't you going to feel ashamed when you go to Robbin Island that the lady you supported was intent on him staying there?'

    Embarrassed shrug move on.......
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Scott_P said:
    "Members of a mainstream left-wing political party in Europe, who may win their country's next elections" -> "Some guy"
    "the country's rabbis" -> "Signatories of a political statement"
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    There are fewer than 300,000 Jews in the UK. I can't believe that more than 250 of them still vote Labour so I really don't see what harm this will all do him.

    But I'd say there are more than 3,000,000 Labour voters - liberal, metropolitan in outlook, wholly decent people - who will be very, very uneasy at the notion of putting their X on the ballot paper to make an anti-semite our Prime Minister.
    Further, whilst Labour has been consumed by this internal row for the whole of the summer, one of the most chaotic and directionless governments of the modern era has gone almost completely unopposed.
    Yes but it’s ordinary decent incompetence. Not like that nasty Labour Party sh%t.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    edited August 2018
    Karl Marx was ethnically Jewish. Just saying.

    Engels wasn't. Just saying as well.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited August 2018
    There has never been a killing by an Israel that has been condemned by Jonathan Sacks. His interviews make Martin Mcguiness look like the IRA's biggest critic.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    edited August 2018
    Roger said:

    Excellent interview with TM by Michael Crick. 'Aren't you going to feel ashamed when you go to Robbin Island that the lady you supported was intent on him staying there?'

    Embarrassed shrug move on.......

    Michael Crick is full of crap.

    When I arrived, P W Botha was the state president. Thatcher could not stand Botha, whom she knew to have been a German sympathiser during the Second World War. When she met him at Chequers in June 1984, the notes taken by Botha’s foreign minister show that she told him “very firmly” that “apartheid had to be dismantled, Mandela and other prisoners released” and the “forcible removal of urban blacks had to stop”.

    And

    Afterwards, Mandela told me that the prime minister was a “woman he could do business with”. At his press conference that afternoon, choosing his words with heavy emphasis, Mandela declared that Thatcher “is an enemy of apartheid”.

    But what do Nelson Mandela and the then British Ambassador to South Africa know?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/11403728/Margaret-Thatchers-secret-campaign-to-end-apartheid.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    I recall reading that some time ago. The family always seemed to be looking over their shoulders to see where the next threat was coming from, and that tallies with other books I’ve read which feature Jews.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
    Do you mean in synagogues? I was thinking of political meetings.
    Synagogues certainly-but also at weddings funerals and all gatherings of orthodox Jews.
    Yep the sooner we get rid of them the better.
  • It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.
  • I didn't know Jezza was also a believer in homeopathy,

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/10038528258
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    RobD said:

    This is the new 'We've abolished boom and bust'

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1034426547787235328

    It should be, because we are in total convergence with the EU.
    It only is easy provided we remain in total convergence!

    Customs Union and Single Market for example.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    edited August 2018
    I note that Jezza made some remarks about Israel Lobby in Parliament in 2010.

    At the time this was quite a commonly held view, as seen in the 2009 Dispatches programme below:

    https://youtu.be/0E70BwA7xgU
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    Okay, and who decides which Jewish people are members of this Community?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited August 2018

    I didn't know Jezza was also a believer in homeopathy,

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/10038528258

    "compliments 'convential' " is good, and I think he may be confusing homeopathy with herbalism. Water is not organic matter, and some of the additives are things like arsenic and common salt. This man is not intellectually equipped to clean latrines for a living.
  • Interesting that a week tomorrow PMQs restart

    What on earth could be on the agenda
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    edited August 2018

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    If that is the case...... labour is in open warfare..... then Labour should indeed be ashamed of getting into this position.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
    You repeat...you repeat...you repeat.....

    You convince no-one here.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
    That claim is batshit crazy. You should stop making it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I recently read the family history, "The Hare With Amber Eyes," in which a Jewish family is present in Paris during the Dreyfus affair and in Vienna up until the Anschluss and it brought home to me how vulnerable minorities are, and how reliant they are upon the protection of people of decency.

    I don't have any time left for Corbyn.

    One can understand therefore the communities sensitivity when a threat appears, whether it’s real or not.
    The Dreyfus affair highlighted all these issues. Even in my own family, the reason my mother’s family ended up in Italy was because her great-grandfather, a French Jew, felt that he could progress no further in France and left for Italy. And barely 40 years later, despite being Catholics by then, the family could not be certain that their well-known Jewish ancestry would not make them vulnerable. One reason why my mother and her siblings spent most of the war years hidden in Rome’s convents.

    @TheJezziah may congratulate himself that most minorities vote Labour. But other minorities might well look at what is happening to the Jews and Labour and ask themselves whether, if this can happen to them, why could it not happen to us, if the political climate changes or a leader changes or it becomes expedient to pick on another group to scapegoat.

    After all, theoretically, Labour are all for womens’ rights but that has not stopped them talking to gender segregated meetings or ignoring the rape of girls when convenient or even demanding that women allow biological males to share their spaces. They’re all in favour of gay rights but their leader takes money from the propaganda arm of a regime which hangs gay men from cranes and uses rape as a weapon in prison.

    Once you start “othering” one group, you are sending out a signal not just to them but to everyone about your approach. Labour and the Tories both need to take note of this. We are all minorities in some way.
    Point of order. Jonathan Sacks talks to gender segregated meetings on a regular basis. I wouldn't accuse him of being anti women's rights.
    Do you mean in synagogues? I was thinking of political meetings.
    Synagogues certainly-but also at weddings funerals and all gatherings of orthodox Jews.
    Yep the sooner we get rid of them the better.
    I don't have a problem with segregated meetings. I am very used to them and understand the motivation well. It's cyclefree you should aim your sarcasm towards
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
    That claim is batshit crazy. You should stop making it.
    No I wont

    A Labour MP yesterday called a party member Anti Semitic for calling Mike Gapes "Gammon"

    Royal Blue calls Jezza a Jew Hater

    It just diminishes the term(s)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    I don't hate Corbyn. I just wish he wasn't a prat.

    After al, if he wasn't he wouldn't be in this mess and Labour would be in with a decent shout of wrecking the Tories for a generation.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
    That claim is batshit crazy. You should stop making it.
    No I wont

    A Labour MP yesterday called a party member Anti Semitic for calling Mike Gapes "Gammon"

    Royal Blue calls Jezza a Jew Hater

    It just diminishes the term(s)
    True tottaly diminishes he terms.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    .

    Jezza is not a bigot

    I repeat you cheapen the terms Anti Semite and Jew Hater and should be ashamed
    That claim is batshit crazy. You should stop making it.
    Why should he ?

    Because you say so .
  • On a lighter note...

    The man who wants his face to look like a SKULL: Colombian, 22, has half his nose cut off, ears mutilated and eyes tattooed to achieve skeletal image

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6106443/Kalaca-Skull-half-nose-cut-ears-mutilated-eyes-tattooed-look-like-skull.html

    Not sure this guy is going to do too well on Tinder...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    Excellent interview with TM by Michael Crick. 'Aren't you going to feel ashamed when you go to Robbin Island that the lady you supported was intent on him staying there?'

    Embarrassed shrug move on.......

    Michael Crick is full of crap.

    When I arrived, P W Botha was the state president. Thatcher could not stand Botha, whom she knew to have been a German sympathiser during the Second World War. When she met him at Chequers in June 1984, the notes taken by Botha’s foreign minister show that she told him “very firmly” that “apartheid had to be dismantled, Mandela and other prisoners released” and the “forcible removal of urban blacks had to stop”.

    And

    Afterwards, Mandela told me that the prime minister was a “woman he could do business with”. At his press conference that afternoon, choosing his words with heavy emphasis, Mandela declared that Thatcher “is an enemy of apartheid”.

    But what do Nelson Mandela and the then British Ambassador to South Africa know?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/11403728/Margaret-Thatchers-secret-campaign-to-end-apartheid.html
    That is NOT a widely held view though there are a lot of revisionist historians doing the rounds at the moment. Many of us remember John Major and Margaret Thatcher returning from a Commonwealth meeting holding thumb and forefinger together saying we didn't give an inch to those wanting to bring in sanctions. The UK were in a minority of ONE.

    After Mandela's release I did a two week job in south Africa and it was an almost unanimous view that sanctions alone was the reason for the ending of apartheid.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,692
    Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    Spot on were all Hartley Brewer fans today!!!

    And even normally sensible Big G takes this right wing Arab Hater Rabbis word is gospel today
  • Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    I don't hate Corbyn. I just wish he wasn't a prat.

    After al, if he wasn't he wouldn't be in this mess and Labour would be in with a decent shout of wrecking the Tories for a generation.
    I would go further, a decent labour party would be out of sight
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    I don't think that is right. I mainly think Corbyn is a risible twat; the only grounds I can see for hating him rather than just pointing at him and laughing, is anti-semitism itself. So it is wrong to claim that attacking him for anti-semitism is a proxy for attacking him for anything else.

    It is of course wrong to exaggerate; it is also wrong to minimise. Say the road to Auschwitz is 100 miles long, and ten years ago we were 10 yards down it, and say Corbyn's Labour have added another 100 yards to that. 100 yards is a trivial fraction of 100 miles (1/1760, I think) but this is a case where zero tolerance is the only way.
  • Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    Spot on were all Hartley Brewer fans today!!!

    And even normally sensible Big G takes this right wing Arab Hater Rabbis word is gospel today
    I take nothing of the kind but it is clear Corbyn is in deep trouble over this
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    Off-topic:

    Today, chip fabrication company Global Foundries announced that it is stopping all development of its next-generation 7 nanometre process. This leaves only three companies developing this claass of technology: Intel, Samsung and TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

    Back in the 1980s, there were many (from memory, over 30) companies who could fab latest-gen chips. Now there are just three.

    This is an indications that Moore's Law is finally coming to an end: it has been kept going by architecture and process improvements, and the latter is coming shuddering to a halt as the new processes are just too expensive to develop.

    It also means that all the fabless chip design companies (in which the UK excel) will have even less choice if they want to use the latest tech - and this will have knock-on effects in the future. Also expect next-gen chips to be more expensive, as competition and capacity has been reduced. Non-Intel manufacturers essentially have only two to choose from.

    This is not a good thing (tm).
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    I don't hate Corbyn. I just wish he wasn't a prat.

    After al, if he wasn't he wouldn't be in this mess and Labour would be in with a decent shout of wrecking the Tories for a generation.
    He is not a favourite of mine.
    However I do not agree with that assessment.
    The last Labour leader was ridiculed ,and left the party further away from power, with a slightly left agenda.
    There was no shame in those days attacking for looking funny, been a back stabber etc All underhand Jewish tropes.
  • Off-topic:

    Today, chip fabrication company Global Foundries announced that it is stopping all development of its next-generation 7 nanometre process. This leaves only three companies developing this claass of technology: Intel, Samsung and TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company.

    Back in the 1980s, there were many (from memory, over 30) companies who could fab latest-gen chips. Now there are just three.

    This is an indications that Moore's Law is finally coming to an end: it has been kept going by architecture and process improvements, and the latter is coming shuddering to a halt as the new processes are just too expensive to develop.

    It also means that all the fabless chip design companies (in which the UK excel) will have even less choice if they want to use the latest tech - and this will have knock-on effects in the future. Also expect next-gen chips to be more expensive, as competition and capacity has been reduced. Non-Intel manufacturers essentially have only two to choose from.

    This is not a good thing (tm).

    Who does the fabrication for AMD chips?
  • HemmeligHemmelig Posts: 14
    Dear All

    I used to post under the name HHemmelig until I was banned a few months ago.

    Then someone activated this account, which is only one letter different, and have made some offensive posts on here with the obvious intention of making it seem like I made them.

    For reasons unknown they used my email address so bizarrely I was able to seize control of the account.

    Please disregard the 12 or so trolling posts which have been made by this account over the past few weeks.

    Thanks

    HHemmelig
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Yorkcity said:

    It appears Corbyn's labour is in open warfare against the British Jewish Community.

    I just find the whole thing horrific, especially being a very young impressionable child when the pictures from Auschwitz and other camps were dominating the news media

    Labour should be ashamed and those mps staying in the party are complicit, whether they like it or not.

    It seem to many the reverse is true.

    Exaggeration and hyperbole , seem to overtaken this site.
    Mainly due to their hatred of Corbyn.
    The main similarity between Trump and Corbyn, is in how their opponents react to them. They go so hysterically OTT, and sound so completely unhinged, that in the end the "middle ground" voters just end up tuning out all their opponents' attacks on them.

    Blair might have hopeless political judgement these days, but IMO people would be well-advised to take his advice on how to criticise opponents:

    "I never made my line of attack overly harsh. I always tried to make it telling. The aim was to get the non-politician nodding. I would wonder not what appealed to a Labour Party Conference in full throttle, but what would appeal to my old mates at the Bar, who wanted a reasonable case to be made .... Expressed like that, these attacks seem flat, rather mundane almost, and not exactly inspiring - but that's their appeal. Any one of these charges, if it comes to believed, is actually fatal. Yes, it's not like calling your opponent a liar, or a fraud, or a villain or a hypocrite, but the middle-ground floating voter kind of shrugs their shoulders at these claims. They don't chime. They're too over the top, too heavy, and they represent an insult, not an argument. Whereas the lesser charge, because it's more accurate and precisely because it's more low-key, can stick."
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Hemmelig said:

    Dear All

    I used to post under the name HHemmelig until I was banned a few months ago.

    Then someone activated this account, which is only one letter different, and have made some offensive posts on here with the obvious intention of making it seem like I made them.

    For reasons unknown they used my email address so bizarrely I was able to seize control of the account.

    Please disregard the 12 or so trolling posts which have been made by this account over the past few weeks.

    Thanks

    HHemmelig

    I did wonder why your politics seemed to have done a complete 180!
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    Moggs position could quite quickly escalate to war between Ireland and the UK. He is a fool.
  • HemmeligHemmelig Posts: 14
    Hemmelig said:

    Dear All

    I used to post under the name HHemmelig until I was banned a few months ago.

    Then someone activated this account, which is only one letter different, and have made some offensive posts on here with the obvious intention of making it seem like I made them.

    For reasons unknown they used my email address so bizarrely I was able to seize control of the account.

    Please disregard the 12 or so trolling posts which have been made by this account over the past few weeks.

    Thanks

    HHemmelig

    I might add that, given the content of the posts, my impersonator may well be a Russian bot.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    On a lighter note...

    The man who wants his face to look like a SKULL: Colombian, 22, has half his nose cut off, ears mutilated and eyes tattooed to achieve skeletal image

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6106443/Kalaca-Skull-half-nose-cut-ears-mutilated-eyes-tattooed-look-like-skull.html

    Not sure this guy is going to do too well on Tinder...

    Actually he might. Now the subset of people interested romantically in a guy with half a nose may well be 0.000001% of the population, but he'll have all those freaks and weirdos to himself.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    I didn't know Jezza was also a believer in homeopathy,

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/10038528258

    "compliments 'convential' " is good, and I think he may be confusing homeopathy with herbalism. Water is not organic matter, and some of the additives are things like arsenic and common salt. This man is not intellectually equipped to clean latrines for a living.
    I'd bet a far higher percentage than average of the core-Corbynite-cultists are firm believers in homeopathy.
  • nielh said:

    Moggs position could quite quickly escalate to war between Ireland and the UK. He is a fool.

    He is but too much credence is given to him
This discussion has been closed.