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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov finds that the number of LAB voters thinking Brexit is

SystemSystem Posts: 12,173
edited August 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov finds that the number of LAB voters thinking Brexit is wrong reaches new high

How LAB voters in latest YouGov poll are splitting on Brexit. I think the 76% saying Brexit wrong is the highest yet. pic.twitter.com/zPqhI3nttg

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    First
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    To the cult Corbyn can do no wrong.

    He won't change.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    Pacman's looking well these days
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    Ryanair will no longer let passengers take a small suitcase on its planes for free, with charges for a 10kg case to be introduced in November

    Is this the end to even free carry on across the industry? In addition to the cost, the best thing about carry on is speed of departure when you get to the other end.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited August 2018
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    First

    Again? Wake up sheeple, the system is rigged.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Harvey Weinsalmond facing a #weetoo backlash for his alleged pest crimes...

    Colour me unsurprised.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    He's handling the pressure well - let Keir Starmer and others talk about not ruling out a referendum, and those who think Brexit is wrong won't go anywhere, in case Labour change their official position (I think they will).

    And if they don't change position, well, then we'll have left anyway and as upset as people are where are they going to go to punish the government for it? The LDs? If people were willing to do that out of anger at Brexit they'd have done it last year.

    And the core will support Corbyn whatever his position anyway.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    Seems about right. The question, instead, is it that likely? Until such time as the SNP stop being the most popular party by far in Scotland the pressure will be on for one.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Life expectancy in some parts of Scotland means a generation isn't many years....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Life expectancy is just that low above the border. The poor dears. :D
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    https://twitter.com/NickGriffinBU/status/1032688288480591872
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    The Good Friday Agreement sets a precedent for referendums on ending the union every 7 years.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    williamglenn said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    The Good Friday Agreement sets a precedent for referendums on ending the union every 7 years.
    It does?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    The Good Friday Agreement sets a precedent for referendums on ending the union every 7 years.
    It does?
    William thinks the GFA is the equivalent of the five magic beans.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/NickGriffinBU/status/1032688288480591872

    No no it's fine, Corbyn already told everyone that anti-semites don't speak for him.

    A lot of them do seem to be speaking up for him though for some reason.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Careful what we say, nothing has been proven (or even alleged in public?).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    Brexit negotiatiors aren’t smart enough for that.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    I believe that the EU have made plain that no extension of A50 is possible. That would result in electing people to the EU Parliament that they do not want to be there.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,306
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    They have got to try and keep up the pretence that there is going to be another Indy Ref before the next Holyrood election because even the party faithful are worried that the SNP simple won't have the numbers to call one after the election.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Talking Heads can explain about Once In A Lifetime if that's any use.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,306
    Daily Record - Alex Salmond reported to cops over allegations of sexual assault
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    'Perfidious Albion' lives on in the minds of Johnny Foreigner. Don't they know that the English are open-handed, above-board coves? We say what we mean and mean what we say.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Life expectancy is just that low above the border. The poor dears. :D
    Deep fried mars bars will do that
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Funny use of 'hindsight' in that poll
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    That is my retirement plan. Don’t knock it.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Anecdata: Just had dinner with my father, who is Jewish and probably just a tad right-of-centre, who thinks Corbyn's economics would be very harmful to both the country and him personally. He doesn't believe that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and thinks that there's a concerted smear campaign against him.

    Do we have any evidence at all that this narriative of anti-Semitism is cutting through with the public, beyond people who are strongly pro-Israel or already strongly anti-Corbyn?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited August 2018
    Floater said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Life expectancy is just that low above the border. The poor dears. :D
    Deep fried mars bars will do that
    A chippy in Scotland has been slammed for serving 'Britain's unhealthiest takeaway.'

    The gut-busting 7,000 calorie box features a pile of various fried foods and a two-litre bottle of Irn-Bru - promoting one person to brand it "the most Scottish thing I’ve seen."

    The bargain bucket contains chips, two pizza crunches, fish, two sausages, two hamburgers, onion rings, chicken nuggets and fritters - all battered.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/takeway-slammed-selling-7000-calorie-13110114
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    Bertie Ahern gave a speech the other night where he stated that the extension of the article 50 negotiations would be past the next UK general election. The EU still think that the decision to leave can be over turned by time and a new Govt (they do not understand Corbyn). The only real question is are they going to ask for 40bill or leave the payments annually as they are now.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2018
    What the big fear amongst of leadership, we are told, is that there could be a split and the whole Labour movement still has a collective fear of that following what happened in the 1980s when the SDP was formed. They don’t need to be reminded that from that schism winner was for many years Maggie’s Conservatives. The trigger for a split could be Brexit.

    From a rational point of view, that makes perfect sense.

    One can't help noticing, though, that the Labour leadership by its actions and non-actions on Brexit, but even more on anti-Semitism and on supporting terrorist causes, appears in practice to be doing everything it can to push decent, centre-left supporters into splitting off, especially if they want to reverse Brexit.

    Is this incompetence, or deliberate policy, or perhaps a correct calculation that the potential splitters are so feeble and so frit that it doesn't matter?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Life expectancy is just that low above the border. The poor dears. :D
    Even in Glasgow it is more than 7 years though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    Stereotomy said:

    Anecdata: Just had dinner with my father, who is Jewish and probably just a tad right-of-centre, who thinks Corbyn's economics would be very harmful to both the country and him personally. He doesn't believe that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and thinks that there's a concerted smear campaign against him.

    Do we have any evidence at all that this narriative of anti-Semitism is cutting through with the public, beyond people who are strongly pro-Israel or already strongly anti-Corbyn?

    The latest quote might change his mind.....
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Stereotomy said:

    Anecdata: Just had dinner with my father, who is Jewish and probably just a tad right-of-centre, who thinks Corbyn's economics would be very harmful to both the country and him personally. He doesn't believe that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and thinks that there's a concerted smear campaign against him.

    Do we have any evidence at all that this narriative of anti-Semitism is cutting through with the public, beyond people who are strongly pro-Israel or already strongly anti-Corbyn?

    The latest quote might change his mind.....
    Why would it? He doesn't identify as a Zionist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Stereotomy said:

    Anecdata: Just had dinner with my father, who is Jewish and probably just a tad right-of-centre, who thinks Corbyn's economics would be very harmful to both the country and him personally. He doesn't believe that Corbyn is anti-Semitic and thinks that there's a concerted smear campaign against him.

    Do we have any evidence at all that this narriative of anti-Semitism is cutting through with the public, beyond people who are strongly pro-Israel or already strongly anti-Corbyn?

    I don't think so, but over the summer there does seem to have been a shift to more people - not a majority, but more - who seem to be calling him personally anti semitic, as opposed to merely being a problem in dealing with it. So it may be that the narrative is not convincing any new people, but it is hardening those already persuaded - I don't think it will lead to a party split, but the bitterness seems to be increasing.

    As for there being a concerted smear campaign, I don't doubt those opposes to him, for many reasons, seize upon the stories that emerge, but at the end of the day his associations (and his increasingly lame excuses) and his statements are his own and feed the frenzy, not helped by his most extreme supporters making him look worse than he is due to what they say.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited August 2018
    Think I have just found jezzas dream car....

    Russian made, 1970s body, eco electric....

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/23/kalashnikov-takes-on-tesla-with-retro-look-electric-supercar
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    What the big fear amongst of leadership, we are told, is that there could be a split and the whole Labour movement still has a collective fear of that following what happened in the 1980s when the SDP was formed. They don’t need to be reminded that from that schism winner was for many years Maggie’s Conservatives. The trigger for a split could be Brexit.

    From a rational point of view, that makes perfect sense.

    One can't help noticing, though, that the Labour leadership by its actions and non-actions on Brexit, but even more on anti-Semitism and on supporting terrorist causes, appears in practice to be doing everything it can to push decent, centre-left supporters into splitting off, especially if they want to reverse Brexit.

    Is this incompetence, or deliberate policy, or perhaps a correct calculation that the potential splitters are so feeble and so frit that it doesn't matter?

    I'd go for the latter option if we are picking. I just don't understand the latest rumblings that a split is inevitable but will wait until after Brexit - what good does that do anyone? Splitting from Corbyn now doesn't seem like it would impact whether the Tories can get their deal through (assuming they get one).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    ralphmalph said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    The EU still think that the decision to leave can be over turned by time and a new Govt (they do not understand Corbyn).
    Well of course a decision to leave could be overturned by time and a new government, but relying upon a Corbyn government for that would seem to be a mistake. I can believe he would change position, despite his past, if the gain was felt to be enough (at present they clearly don't believe it is, hence the comments playing to both sides and his 'masterly inactivity' on the subject), but that would be a heck of a gamble.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    They're not British?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    As in, a mistake that's in the past and can now be forgotten about?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    The Balfour declaration?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    He means that Jews should be driven out. Anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism in the twentieth century will immediately recognise the meme, the style, even down to the choice of words.

    I suppose you might just be able to argue that Corbyn is so stupid that he didn't know what he was saying, but it's becoming harder by the day to run that argument. He certainly didn't care.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    They didn't say human generation?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,898
    Did they ask these Labour voters if Anti-semitism is "wrong"?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    He means that Jews should be driven out. Anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism in the twentieth century will immediately recognise the meme, the style, even down to the choice of words.

    I suppose you might just be able to argue that Corbyn is so stupid that he didn't know what he was saying, but it's becoming harder by the day to run that argument. He certainly didn't care.
    Sounds a lot like the old German, Hitler-era, soundbite about 'The Jewish Problem' to me.

    Sickening.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    rottenborough said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    He means that Jews should be driven out. Anyone who has even a passing knowledge of the history of anti-Semitism in the twentieth century will immediately recognise the meme, the style, even down to the choice of words.

    I suppose you might just be able to argue that Corbyn is so stupid that he didn't know what he was saying, but it's becoming harder by the day to run that argument. He certainly didn't care.
    Sounds a lot like the old German, Hitler-era, soundbite about 'The Jewish Problem' to me.

    Sickening.
    Yes, it's exactly like that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    david_herdson said:

    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    The Balfour declaration?
    :lol: I think... but it is late, so I may have missed the humour.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    david_herdson said:

    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?

    Labour won the last election, as was declared by the crowd at Glastonbury.

    Do keep up... :smiley:
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Just picking up on the last thread regarding the world of Trumpton.

    A lot of weeks back I mentioned that Paul Manafort was suspected of having remarkably close links to Russian intelligence services, consciously close links. That story hasn't really bubbled up yet but it may well do.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    rottenborough said:

    Can someone explain to me what the f*** Jezza means by Zionists don't understand British irony?

    Honestly, I am lost.

    The Balfour declaration?
    :lol: I think... but it is late, so I may have missed the humour.
    No, I think you got it. It's quite dark humour, but then maybe that's a nod and a tribute.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Banks turned down:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/23/tories-say-they-rejected-arron-banks-bid-to-join-party
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,898
    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?

    Labour won the last election, as was declared by the crowd at Glastonbury.

    Do keep up... :smiley:
    I have some Bar charts somewhere...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    Looks like they have.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/dphinnemore/status/1032718274738507782?s=21

    I believe that the EU have made plain that no extension of A50 is possible. That would result in electing people to the EU Parliament that they do not want to be there.
    I suspect the EU and its constituent governments would choose extension - and by association money and control - over disorderly exit.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    Chuka and Corbyn can't be in the same party. They are like two particles that repel each other, eventually something gives.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,052
    Bizarre result in Rushcliffe where the Conservative councillor stood down and ran as an independent - and lost to a Conservative.
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    Forgive me if I have got the wrong person, but weren't you casting doubt on the veracity of DeltaPoll a couple of days ago? If so, what changed your attitude?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    While I take his point about parties being coalitions, to an extent, that can be taken too far and we've seen particularly in recent years that parties are creaking at the seams because some people seem fundamentally to be at odds with very important aspects of current policy on major issues. Strict ideology will never work, but there doesn't need to be an accept all comers attitude either.

    More to the point, even if someone of his ideology could fit within the party - which I find easy to believe - they don't have to accept someone they think will bring them into disrepute.

    So while it is mostly none of my business as I'm not a party member, it also doesn't seem indicative of a troubling attitude if they want to say no.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    david_herdson said:

    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?

    I don't follow - what has their being in opposition got to do on whether they think there should be a second referendum? That only becomes an issue if the factions expect the party can deliver on the feeling there should be one. Sounds like it is just about committing the party to if not a remain position then a leave the door open to remain option.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    slade said:

    Bizarre result in Rushcliffe where the Conservative councillor stood down and ran as an independent - and lost to a Conservative.

    Sounds like a bizarre election - councillors shifting group is not unusual, but it must be irregular to force a by-election when doing so.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
    Not if everybody votes Lib Dem, Mr Navabi. With both Labour and the Tories on the point of splitting up, and just about as weak as they can be, and hordes of fascist thugs banging on the doors, a good Lib Dem government seems to me to be a very attractive option.

    And most decent Conservative voters quite liked what the Coalition Government did, when it was safely under Lib Dem control (at least some of the time). Not the nasty Tory bits of it, of course.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    PClipp said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
    Not if everybody votes Lib Dem, Mr Navabi. With both Labour and the Tories on the point of splitting up, and just about as weak as they can be, and hordes of fascist thugs banging on the doors, a good Lib Dem government seems to me to be a very attractive option.

    And most decent Conservative voters quite liked what the Coalition Government did, when it was safely under Lib Dem control (at least some of the time). Not the nasty Tory bits of it, of course.
    Conditions may well seem ripe for the LDs to do well. They actually had fewer votes in 2017 than 2015 though. There constantly seem to be reasons the LDs should be a very attractive option, but it doesn't seem to be working.

    Labour are much closer to government than they had seemed to be before, and that will keep them together, and the Tories are on the bring of losing power and that will keep them together.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?

    Labour won the last election, as was declared by the crowd at Glastonbury.

    Do keep up... :smiley:
    I have some Bar charts somewhere...
    Is your chart based on chants based on White Stripes songs?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Probably best not someone that doesn't have a vote or influence or live in Scotland though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
    Random people joining to vote for Boris presumably isn't an issue. Arron Banks joining to vote for Boris may be, in the eyes of the party. I don't see the problem, it's about him more than what he's doing, I assume.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    slade said:

    Bizarre result in Rushcliffe where the Conservative councillor stood down and ran as an independent - and lost to a Conservative.

    It is hardly the first time a politician has mistaken a party vote for personal loyalty -- ask Mark Reckless.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,898
    rottenborough said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    "the factions that are demanding a firm conference vote on whether there should be a second referendum"

    Has it sunk in yet that Labour is still in opposition?

    Labour won the last election, as was declared by the crowd at Glastonbury.

    Do keep up... :smiley:
    I have some Bar charts somewhere...
    Is your chart based on chants based on White Stripes songs?
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/876894066478329857
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    rottenborough said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    Chuka and Corbyn can't be in the same party. They are like two particles that repel each other, eventually something gives.
    Chuka has not funded a rival party (at least as yet).

    As most PBers will know, I’m a Chuka supporter, but I genuinely don’t see the analog with Banks.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Theuniondivvie said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Probably best not someone that doesn't have a vote or influence or live in Scotland though.
    Well, would you mind? On my behalf? Thank you in advance.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,052
    Tories just hang on in North Warwickshire.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Compare and contrast:

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-zionists-have-no-sense-of-english-irony-1.468795


    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1032750466529153024
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Fitalass

    I’m not Scottish but I always thought that The National looks like an interesting paper. I like its provocative headlines!

    It’s a shame it’s not on sale down here in London (as far as I know).

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
    A fair point.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    kle4 said:

    PClipp said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
    Not if everybody votes Lib Dem, Mr Navabi. With both Labour and the Tories on the point of splitting up, and just about as weak as they can be, and hordes of fascist thugs banging on the doors, a good Lib Dem government seems to me to be a very attractive option.

    And most decent Conservative voters quite liked what the Coalition Government did, when it was safely under Lib Dem control (at least some of the time). Not the nasty Tory bits of it, of course.
    Conditions may well seem ripe for the LDs to do well. They actually had fewer votes in 2017 than 2015 though. There constantly seem to be reasons the LDs should be a very attractive option, but it doesn't seem to be working.

    Labour are much closer to government than they had seemed to be before, and that will keep them together, and the Tories are on the bring of losing power and that will keep them together.
    Not sure you are right in your inference there, Mr Kle. Both Labour and the Tories are falling to pieces before our very eyes.

    About ten years ago, when I were but a lad, there were three Tory champions who seemed to do nothing but post one here. Rik Willis, Marcus Woods and Ian Dale. The first two have gone completely silent, and now we learn that Ian Dale has not been a member of the Tory Party for eight years.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    PClipp said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
    Not if everybody votes Lib Dem, Mr Navabi. With both Labour and the Tories on the point of splitting up, and just about as weak as they can be, and hordes of fascist thugs banging on the doors, a good Lib Dem government seems to me to be a very attractive option.

    And most decent Conservative voters quite liked what the Coalition Government did, when it was safely under Lib Dem control (at least some of the time). Not the nasty Tory bits of it, of course.
    Wow - some good shit you been smoking mate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    John_M said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    John_M said:

    RobD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1032731618933465088

    I also can’t rule out me winning a million bucks on the lottery before 2021.
    Someone needs to explain to the SNP (using small words) the definition of ' once in a generation'.
    Probably best not someone that doesn't have a vote or influence or live in Scotland though.
    Well, would you mind? On my behalf? Thank you in advance.
    I don't think I could translate the lashings of condescension adequately without being lynched.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    JohnRussell said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    Forgive me if I have got the wrong person, but weren't you casting doubt on the veracity of DeltaPoll a couple of days ago? If so, what changed your attitude?
    I think I said I didn't believe a poll that showed 50/50 on a Leave/Remain second referendum, but it turned out the poll that had been posted was old.

    However there is a big discrepancy between them and YouGov on how strong the correlation between Leave/Remain is and current party VI and I'd tend to trust YouGov to have better sampling given their longer track record.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    kle4 said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
    Random people joining to vote for Boris presumably isn't an issue. Arron Banks joining to vote for Boris may be, in the eyes of the party. I don't see the problem, it's about him more than what he's doing, I assume.
    I think Banks will be somewhat disappointed, to say the least, if Boris wins thanks to Banks entryism.

    Boris may be vain, grandiose even, but he is not the Oswald Mosley who will be Jackbooting down Cable Street that Banks imagines, as he rocks himself to sleep.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kle4 said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
    Random people joining to vote for Boris presumably isn't an issue. Arron Banks joining to vote for Boris may be, in the eyes of the party. I don't see the problem, it's about him more than what he's doing, I assume.
    Blocking Arron Banks for blatant entryism is one thing but to do so simply because he might vote for someone whom MPs have also voted for (to get into the final two) seems bizarre.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    PClipp said:

    kle4 said:

    PClipp said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    John_M said:

    PClipp said:

    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    But, a large majority do not.
    But if all the reasonable Conservative voters who think Brexit is a dreadful mistake, go off and vote for the Lib Dems, for example, that reduces the Tory percentage to about 26%, and bang go most of their seats!

    I think Mr Fear is being a bit complacent.
    Oh my God, do you mean that we might get a different government? Somebody hold me.
    Yes, a different government which is not only Brexit-favouring but also run by Corbyn and Seamas Milne, which is rather a flaw in @PClipp's otherwise sound reasoning.
    Not if everybody votes Lib Dem, Mr Navabi. With both Labour and the Tories on the point of splitting up, and just about as weak as they can be, and hordes of fascist thugs banging on the doors, a good Lib Dem government seems to me to be a very attractive option.

    And most decent Conservative voters quite liked what the Coalition Government did, when it was safely under Lib Dem control (at least some of the time). Not the nasty Tory bits of it, of course.
    Conditions may well seem ripe for the LDs to do well. They actually had fewer votes in 2017 than 2015 though. There constantly seem to be reasons the LDs should be a very attractive option, but it doesn't seem to be working.

    Labour are much closer to government than they had seemed to be before, and that will keep them together, and the Tories are on the bring of losing power and that will keep them together.
    Not sure you are right in your inference there, Mr Kle. Both Labour and the Tories are falling to pieces before our very eyes.
    .
    No, they are indulging in a lot of infighting, but have not split and their poll ratings are very high.

    The big unknown is if either, or both, will actually suffer a genuine split because of their infighting. With the evidence to date the most likely outcome I see is some on the side that loses out going indy, but the parties continuing on without a new rival.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    kle4 said:

    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Anazina said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1032673031603318785

    Dale is speaking the words of a moron.

    Banks is actively attempting to undermine the party.

    The Tories can and will reject him.
    If Banks can undermine the party simply by voting for a particular candidate to be leader, then shouldn't the party prevent that candidate from standing in the first place? This is the Corbyn problem, is it not? If Conservative Members of Parliament vote for Boris or Gove or Anne Soubry to be in the final two, then how does it undermine the party for ordinary members, even newly-joined ones, also to vote for those people?
    Random people joining to vote for Boris presumably isn't an issue. Arron Banks joining to vote for Boris may be, in the eyes of the party. I don't see the problem, it's about him more than what he's doing, I assume.
    Blocking Arron Banks for blatant entryism is one thing but to do so simply because he might vote for someone whom MPs have also voted for (to get into the final two) seems bizarre.
    That surely isn't the reason the party gave though is it? If it is not about who he would vote for but who he is and how he acts, then it is not as though Boris supporters are being prevented or anything.
  • JohnRussellJohnRussell Posts: 297
    williamglenn said:

    JohnRussell said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    Forgive me if I have got the wrong person, but weren't you casting doubt on the veracity of DeltaPoll a couple of days ago? If so, what changed your attitude?
    I think I said I didn't believe a poll that showed 50/50 on a Leave/Remain second referendum, but it turned out the poll that had been posted was old.

    However there is a big discrepancy between them and YouGov on how strong the correlation between Leave/Remain is and current party VI and I'd tend to trust YouGov to have better sampling given their longer track record.
    Perhaps it wasn't you. The person I remember rubbishing DeltaPoll also ridiculed Martin Boon, so I cant believe they would cite a poll by that company to back up a point they were making.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Alex Salmond taking Scottish government to court"

    https://news.sky.com/story/alex-salmond-taking-scottish-government-to-court-11480541
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,052
    Lib Dem gain from Tories in Hertfordshire.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,052
    slade said:

    Lib Dem gain from Tories in Hertfordshire.

    This is remarkable - the Lin Dems have not stood in this ward in this century.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,052
    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lib Dem gain from Tories in Hertfordshire.

    This is remarkable - the Lin Dems have not stood in this ward in this century.
    Sorry - Lib Dems
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752
    JohnRussell said:

    williamglenn said:

    JohnRussell said:

    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    In practice, what matters is what proportion of Conservative voters support Brexit. Currently, 3.5 to 1.

    Is that the whole story though?

    According to DeltaPoll, almost a third of Tory voters think it’s an historic mistake.

    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/SOS-website-post.pdf
    Forgive me if I have got the wrong person, but weren't you casting doubt on the veracity of DeltaPoll a couple of days ago? If so, what changed your attitude?
    I think I said I didn't believe a poll that showed 50/50 on a Leave/Remain second referendum, but it turned out the poll that had been posted was old.

    However there is a big discrepancy between them and YouGov on how strong the correlation between Leave/Remain is and current party VI and I'd tend to trust YouGov to have better sampling given their longer track record.
    Perhaps it wasn't you. The person I remember rubbishing DeltaPoll also ridiculed Martin Boon, so I cant believe they would cite a poll by that company to back up a point they were making.
    It may have been me. There was a discussion before the above tables had been published when all we had to go on was the Sun's misleading reporting of it.
This discussion has been closed.