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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An awful amount of excrement has just hit the fan for Trump

SystemSystem Posts: 12,173
edited August 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » An awful amount of excrement has just hit the fan for Trump

BREAKING: Michael Cohen says he was directed to violate campaign law at the direction of a candidate for federal office https://t.co/kVdINYkpI3 pic.twitter.com/xa4XAexv1V

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,700
    edited August 2018
    This is your reminder that Mike's near three week holiday begins a week on Thursday
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    This has made my day, which until now was fairly shit. Huzzah!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    We’ve all had worse days.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    This is cathartic.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778
    Scott_P said:
    Lucky she is not in the Big Brother House and therefore missing all this.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    This is your reminder that Mike's near three week holiday begins a week on Thursday

    The quiet period is starting early I see.
  • This is your reminder that Mike's near three week holiday begins a week on Thursday

    The quiet period is starting early I see.
    Yah, I was planning on running a daily thread on electoral reform and voting systems but this might have put the kibosh on that.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    This is your reminder that Mike's near three week holiday begins a week on Thursday

    The quiet period is starting early I see.
    Yah, I was planning on running a daily thread on electoral reform and voting systems but this might have put the kibosh on that.
    Events dear boy, events!
  • Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    Satire

    I know sometimes it can be difficult to tell
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    Satire

    I know sometimes it can be difficult to tell
    It is possible it was Pence... :)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    I think he's being ironical about Fox.

    But I wonder if the Trump fans won't just shrug this off. "Some sleazy guys I've never heard of did some plea bargains to implicate Trump, when will they stop ganging up on him?" They might concede that his judgment is choosing associates is proving sub-optimal.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    Satire

    I know sometimes it can be difficult to tell
    Ah yes - a bit too clever for me at this time in the evening I'm afraid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    I bet on Dems taking Senate, but it was more heart than head.

    I doubt a single one of his base will be turned by any of this.

    He will scream 'fake news', 'fake judges' and just pardon.

    Hope I am wrong.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    I do dislike plea bargains - particularly in high profile cases like this.

    It makes it impossible for the evidence to be tested properly by a court. It is not how I think justice should be done.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    I think he's being ironical about Fox.

    But I wonder if the Trump fans won't just shrug this off. "Some sleazy guys I've never heard of did some plea bargains to implicate Trump, when will they stop ganging up on him?" They might concede that his judgment is choosing associates is proving sub-optimal.
    Mmmm... but what if Cohen testifies that Trump incited him to the violation? Would he (Trump) not then face prosecution?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    This is your reminder that Mike's near three week holiday begins a week on Thursday

    When does the '22 Committee open its postbox after Parliament reconvenes?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    The odds on Trump going during 2018 last traded at 8.8 . It's not long ago that it traded at 24.

    FWIW, I think 8.8 is far too short. I doubt there's time for an impeachment trial this year and I simply can't see him resigning, no matter how bad things look (not least because if resigning wouldn't get him off any legal hook and while Pence could pardon him, that would kill Pence's presidency stone dead).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752

    Scott_P said:
    Lucky she is not in the Big Brother House and therefore missing all this.
    Perhaps Trump could take her place?
  • Been out for a fabulous Swordfish dinner here in El Campello. And a wee drinkie or 6. And get home, wifey starts spodding so I switch on PB and see everyone's favourite orange man may be screwed.

    Marvellous!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,778

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    I think he's being ironical about Fox.

    But I wonder if the Trump fans won't just shrug this off. "Some sleazy guys I've never heard of did some plea bargains to implicate Trump, when will they stop ganging up on him?" They might concede that his judgment is choosing associates is proving sub-optimal.
    Yeh, looks that way to me.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    The odds on Trump going during 2018 last traded at 8.8 . It's not long ago that it traded at 24.

    FWIW, I think 8.8 is far too short. I doubt there's time for an impeachment trial this year and I simply can't see him resigning, no matter how bad things look (not least because if resigning wouldn't get him off any legal hook and while Pence could pardon him, that would kill Pence's presidency stone dead).
    You're probably right David but I'm disinclined to believe anyone who says they know the answer to what happens next
  • Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    I bet on Dems taking Senate, but it was more heart than head.

    I doubt a single one of his base will be turned by any of this.

    He will scream 'fake news', 'fake judges' and just pardon.

    Hope I am wrong.
    No, I think you are right. The Trump Tribe is very tribal.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    The odds on Trump going during 2018 last traded at 8.8 . It's not long ago that it traded at 24.

    FWIW, I think 8.8 is far too short. I doubt there's time for an impeachment trial this year and I simply can't see him resigning, no matter how bad things look (not least because if resigning wouldn't get him off any legal hook and while Pence could pardon him, that would kill Pence's presidency stone dead).
    On the very last point, there is a precedent from Ford & Nixon.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Been out for a fabulous Swordfish dinner here in El Campello. And a wee drinkie or 6. And get home, wifey starts spodding so I switch on PB and see everyone's favourite orange man may be screwed.

    Marvellous!

    Your wife's carp fishing?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    edited August 2018

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).


  • FPT
    kle4 said:

    They'll soon be leading their respective countries.

    https://twitter.com/VP/status/1031988270954176515

    Sounds like a dull conversation.
    "Boring conversation anyway! Luke, we're gonna have company!"
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    The odds on Trump going during 2018 last traded at 8.8 . It's not long ago that it traded at 24.

    FWIW, I think 8.8 is far too short. I doubt there's time for an impeachment trial this year and I simply can't see him resigning, no matter how bad things look (not least because if resigning wouldn't get him off any legal hook and while Pence could pardon him, that would kill Pence's presidency stone dead).
    On the very last point, there is a precedent from Ford & Nixon.
    There is, but his pardon of Nixon sent his approval rating down from 70% to sub-40. He only barely scraped renomination and then lost to Carter. The precedent is hardly a happy one.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    Satire. Fox News has form for mis-captioning Republicans caught in various scandals as Democrats. For instance:
    https://crooksandliars.com/logan-murphy/shocking-fox-news-labels-disgraced-re
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    I bet on Dems taking Senate, but it was more heart than head.

    I doubt a single one of his base will be turned by any of this.

    He will scream 'fake news', 'fake judges' and just pardon.

    Hope I am wrong.
    No, I think you are right. The Trump Tribe is very tribal.
    The true Trump base is his support at the start of the primaries in 2016 i.e. about one-third of Republican primary voters - less than 10% of the electorate and less than 5% of the country.

    He can pardon others and himself but that's no immunity against impeachment. Indeed, if he did start dishing out pardons to his former associates, that'd be more likely to bring impeachment on.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited August 2018

    I do dislike plea bargains - particularly in high profile cases like this.

    It makes it impossible for the evidence to be tested properly by a court. It is not how I think justice should be done.

    Under the US system, hardly any cases actually go to trial.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Won’t make any difference. Trumpton is Teflon. Corbyn in a wig.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    The odds on Trump going during 2018 last traded at 8.8 . It's not long ago that it traded at 24.

    FWIW, I think 8.8 is far too short. I doubt there's time for an impeachment trial this year and I simply can't see him resigning, no matter how bad things look (not least because if resigning wouldn't get him off any legal hook and while Pence could pardon him, that would kill Pence's presidency stone dead).
    On the very last point, there is a precedent from Ford & Nixon.
    There is, but his pardon of Nixon sent his approval rating down from 70% to sub-40. He only barely scraped renomination and then lost to Carter. The precedent is hardly a happy one.
    Fair point.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Scott_P said:
    Sell companies and fake invoices? Guy sounds pretty bent
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    I do dislike plea bargains - particularly in high profile cases like this.

    It makes it impossible for the evidence to be tested properly by a court. It is not how I think justice should be done.

    Under the US system, hardly any cases actually go to trial.
    And in no way is that a good way of running a justice system.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    Anazina said:

    Won’t make any difference. Trumpton is Teflon. Corbyn in a wig.

    Nah. Trump's ratings are not uniform; there are swing voters. In December last year, Trump's net approval rating was running at around -20. Over this summer, it's been about -8. He has support to lose and that could easily rub off onto the GOP congressional candidates.
  • I do dislike plea bargains - particularly in high profile cases like this.

    It makes it impossible for the evidence to be tested properly by a court. It is not how I think justice should be done.

    Under the US system, hardly any cases actually go to trial.
    And in no way is that a good way of running a justice system.
    No, for the little man, what happens is the state works out as many charges as possible and stretches the elastic of severity of them, all with a plan that pressures individuals (guilty and innocent) into entering into plea bargaining. Proving you are actually guilty is secondary.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Won’t make any difference. Trumpton is Teflon. Corbyn in a wig.

    Nah. Trump's ratings are not uniform; there are swing voters. In December last year, Trump's net approval rating was running at around -20. Over this summer, it's been about -8. He has support to lose and that could easily rub off onto the GOP congressional candidates.
    We’ll see.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    This is nowhere near done. Cohen had a notable position within the Republican National Committee.

    You have to wonder why so many Republicans on the Hill have decided not to oust Trump but a surprising number decided to retire from Congress when they didn't need to. They don't owe their positions to him but some of them are sure as hell in a position of knowing and being involved in some notable dealings. Plenty more know its as rotten as a medieval beggar.

    Then there is Prague. What was Cohen doing there?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    There is a danger of overthinking this. If Donald Trump is guilty as hell, he might well be impeached. The politics will sort itself out afterwards.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751

    There is a danger of overthinking this. If Donald Trump is guilty as hell, he might well be impeached. The politics will sort itself out afterwards.

    I agree. Trump has few friends on the Hill, and hasn't gone out of his way to win more. Congress fears him because it doesn't really understand him as a political animal. But if it ceases to fear him, he becomes very vulnerable indeed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    #MAGA =
    My Attorney Got Arrested
  • I thought Adam Schiff was a fictional DA from Law and Order...
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    There is a danger of overthinking this. If Donald Trump is guilty as hell, he might well be impeached. The politics will sort itself out afterwards.

    I agree. Trump has few friends on the Hill, and hasn't gone out of his way to win more. Congress fears him because it doesn't really understand him as a political animal. But if it ceases to fear him, he becomes very vulnerable indeed.
    If it undermines his public support to the extent that he's more of an electoral liability than an asset then Republicans in Congress would turn against him very quickly. But that's been true of every single one of these potentially-damaging stories. I don't see why this one is any different. These people aren't going to suspend political self-interest
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    The inquiry is more likely to deliver a report on Trump himself either just before or after the mid terms whenever Congress is likely to be more Democrat friendly. If the GOP lose notably in those elections, not only will they cede the House, they will know they got a liability and concepts of 'country before party' might start to come into the vocabulary.

    Remember if a President commits a crime in office associated with abuse of that office, it needs Congress. If its unrelated or before he became president, Congress may not need to be involved.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    Even if the Dems do take Congress in November though and start impeachment proceedings that does not necessarily mean it will prove fatal to Trump, see the GOP's impeachment of Bill Clinton in the late 1990s which failed to get anywhere as his poll ratings held up.

    It was Nixon's abysmal poll ratings post Watergate which ended his Presidency

  • Another usual evening in the capital.....

    Two men have been found with bullet wounds in the garden of a west London home after a group of people was shot at near a Tube station.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    Also, Florida and Indiana...

    I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just very unlikely. The Dems have to get lucky everywhere. They can't afford a single misstep.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    There is a danger of overthinking this. If Donald Trump is guilty as hell, he might well be impeached. The politics will sort itself out afterwards.

    Sure, but in 2019, please...
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    It's still a tall order when they hold 25 or so of the 33 seats up for re election. Senators usually win on personal votes - party isn't always the deciding factor. Yes they lost the Alabama race but local Republican politicians didn't even want Roy Moore.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Even if the Dems do take Congress in November though and start impeachment proceedings that does not necessarily mean it will prove fatal to Trump, see the GOP's impeachment of Bill Clinton in the late 1990s which failed to get anywhere as his poll ratings held up.

    It was Nixon's abysmal poll ratings post Watergate which ended his Presidency

    Although most Americans felt impeaching Clinton was bullshit. Trump’s impeachment will be much more substantial.

    Personally, I think the GOP establishment are going decide soon to cut their loses and throw Trump under the bus. Maybe Pence too: although he’s more to their taste he’s tainted and a bit too whackadoodle religiously. Getting Paul Ryan into the White House while they still can must be looking more and more attractive to them.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Y0kel said:

    The inquiry is more likely to deliver a report on Trump himself either just before or after the mid terms whenever Congress is likely to be more Democrat friendly. If the GOP lose notably in those elections, not only will they cede the House, they will know they got a liability and concepts of 'country before party' might start to come into the vocabulary.

    Remember if a President commits a crime in office associated with abuse of that office, it needs Congress. If its unrelated or before he became president, Congress may not need to be involved.

    That’s unclear. It’s not settled law whether or not POTUS can be indicted while in office. AIUI most scholars think that sure, he can be indicted, but he can’t be tried until he leaves office. Only the Senate can try POTUS while in office, and only if the House has impeached him. And hoth, of course, are essentially political processes, not judicial.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    It's still a tall order when they hold 25 or so of the 33 seats up for re election. Senators usually win on personal votes - party isn't always the deciding factor. Yes they lost the Alabama race but local Republican politicians didn't even want Roy Moore.
    I agree it's a tall order, though those numbers are a bit misleading because most of those seats aren't realistically in play.

    How correlated Senate seats are is an interesting queston and one that could probably be quantified pretty accurately. But remember party can also affect things indirectly. For example a buoyant national party will be able to give their candidates more money.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    There is a danger of overthinking this. If Donald Trump is guilty as hell, he might well be impeached. The politics will sort itself out afterwards.

    Sure, but in 2019, please...
    You’re safe enough there I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited August 2018
    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if the Dems do take Congress in November though and start impeachment proceedings that does not necessarily mean it will prove fatal to Trump, see the GOP's impeachment of Bill Clinton in the late 1990s which failed to get anywhere as his poll ratings held up.

    It was Nixon's abysmal poll ratings post Watergate which ended his Presidency

    Although most Americans felt impeaching Clinton was bullshit. Trump’s impeachment will be much more substantial.

    Personally, I think the GOP establishment are going decide soon to cut their loses and throw Trump under the bus. Maybe Pence too: although he’s more to their taste he’s tainted and a bit too whackadoodle religiously. Getting Paul Ryan into the White House while they still can must be looking more and more attractive to them.
    The GOP establishment can try what they want, they still have to first impeach Trump then get a candidate past largely Trump supporting GOP primary voters in 2020.


    Ryan is retiring in November
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited August 2018

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    The Dems need a net gain of 2 to take the Senate given 2 seats are pro Dem independent, even in a bad year for them in terms of seats up in a wave midterm year they could do it eg the GOP gained 9 Senate seats net in 1994 and 6 seats net in 2010 and the Dems gained 5 seats net in 2006
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    Also, Florida and Indiana...

    I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just very unlikely. The Dems have to get lucky everywhere. They can't afford a single misstep.
    It would require a wave year but it could be a wave year
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    The Dems need a net gain of 2 to take the Senate given 2 seats are pro Dem independent, even in a bad year for them in terms of seats up in a wave midterm year they could do it eg the GOP gained 9 Senate seats net in 1994 and 6 seats net in 2010 and the Dems gained 5 seats net in 2006
    A reminder on Betfair rules Independents don't count as Dems.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    Farage having funnelled £500,000 to pay off two women, including a pornstar, really would be a story
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited August 2018

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    This is unenforceable and naive. If campaign violations were enough to overturn a mandate in every vote each side would put plants in their opponents team to intentionally nullify the process.

    You could end up in a situation where no mandate is ever valid again.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    "Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, says there is nothing in Cohen’s admissions that represent an allegation of wrongdoing against the president."

    Has he, er, read the charges?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    The Dems need a net gain of 2 to take the Senate given 2 seats are pro Dem independent, even in a bad year for them in terms of seats up in a wave midterm year they could do it eg the GOP gained 9 Senate seats net in 1994 and 6 seats net in 2010 and the Dems gained 5 seats net in 2006
    A reminder on Betfair rules Independents don't count as Dems.
    Seriously? That laying at 9/1 is getting into "free money" territory in that case.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    If the election was tomorrow, the Dems would have to win a lot of near-coinflips to win the Senate. But these races are, to some extent, correlated. It doesn't take much change in the national landscape for the Senate to start looking in play.

    Again, whether this news moves the dial at all is another matter.
    The Dems need a net gain of 2 to take the Senate given 2 seats are pro Dem independent, even in a bad year for them in terms of seats up in a wave midterm year they could do it eg the GOP gained 9 Senate seats net in 1994 and 6 seats net in 2010 and the Dems gained 5 seats net in 2006
    A reminder on Betfair rules Independents don't count as Dems.
    Seriously? That laying at 9/1 is getting into "free money" territory in that case.
    "Note: A majority of seats requires either party to control at least 51 of the 100 Seats in the US Senate. Independent or any other party Representatives caucusing with either the Democrats or Republicans will NOT count for the purposes of this market."
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Yet to affect the Trump betting anything more than marginally.

    You can get 3/1 on Trump to go before 2020, which I think is a fun bet if nothing else. If you haven't spent all your petty change on popcorn of course...

    Yes, the only market to have shifted significantly is the Dems to win the House this November.

    That actually makes sense. Trump isn't going any time soon for many reasons, not least of which is that the Dems wouldn't want to get rid of him before 2020 even if they could, which they probably couldn't anyway.

    He's toxic for the GOP. They should have held the House comfortably but it was looking bad for them even before all this shit dropped on them. I think the House has gone for them now.

    Maybe the Senate comes into play now? On Betfair you can get 9/1 against the Dems taking it. It's a hell of a stretch and a lot of Republican voters distinguish their Senate Reps from Trump, but I guess you have to believe the odds will shorten now. Maybe a trading bet but.....
    It's almost impossible for the Dems to take the Senate because of the presence of the two Independents.

    Even if you put them in the Dem column, then they can only afford one loss between Nevada, Arizona and Texas (all Republican), and their existing seats (including Montana, West Virginia, Missouri...).

    Dems lead most Montana, WV and Missouri polls and most Nevada and Arizona polls and have led some Arizona and Texas polls
    Also, Florida and Indiana...

    I'm not saying it's impossible. It's just very unlikely. The Dems have to get lucky everywhere. They can't afford a single misstep.
    It would require a wave year but it could be a wave year
    This is pretty much the bottom line, yeah
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    rpjs said:

    Y0kel said:

    The inquiry is more likely to deliver a report on Trump himself either just before or after the mid terms whenever Congress is likely to be more Democrat friendly. If the GOP lose notably in those elections, not only will they cede the House, they will know they got a liability and concepts of 'country before party' might start to come into the vocabulary.

    Remember if a President commits a crime in office associated with abuse of that office, it needs Congress. If its unrelated or before he became president, Congress may not need to be involved.

    That’s unclear. It’s not settled law whether or not POTUS can be indicted while in office. AIUI most scholars think that sure, he can be indicted, but he can’t be tried until he leaves office. Only the Senate can try POTUS while in office, and only if the House has impeached him. And hoth, of course, are essentially political processes, not judicial.
    I understand its grey and perhaps in tone sounded more absolute than required, especially in that the nature and occasion of the crime may matter, but there is a fair chance the legal theory is going to get tested.

    I point out again to anyone following this. A surprising number of GOP guys on the Hill are not running again. They know, Ryan knows plenty well about some of the money sources. This isn't just going to reflect on Trump its going to reflect on swathes of the party.

    The actual legal papers around Cohen's charges reveal, not surprisingly, a lot more detail than the headline.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    An impeachment could well bring about President Pence.

    I am not sure that is anything to wish for.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Y0kel said:

    rpjs said:

    Y0kel said:

    The inquiry is more likely to deliver a report on Trump himself either just before or after the mid terms whenever Congress is likely to be more Democrat friendly. If the GOP lose notably in those elections, not only will they cede the House, they will know they got a liability and concepts of 'country before party' might start to come into the vocabulary.

    Remember if a President commits a crime in office associated with abuse of that office, it needs Congress. If its unrelated or before he became president, Congress may not need to be involved.

    That’s unclear. It’s not settled law whether or not POTUS can be indicted while in office. AIUI most scholars think that sure, he can be indicted, but he can’t be tried until he leaves office. Only the Senate can try POTUS while in office, and only if the House has impeached him. And hoth, of course, are essentially political processes, not judicial.
    I understand its grey and perhaps in tone sounded more absolute than required, especially in that the nature and occasion of the crime may matter, but there is a fair chance the legal theory is going to get tested.

    I point out again to anyone following this. A surprising number of GOP guys on the Hill are not running again. They know, Ryan knows plenty well about some of the money sources. This isn't just going to reflect on Trump its going to reflect on swathes of the party.

    The actual legal papers around Cohen's charges reveal, not surprisingly, a lot more detail than the headline.
    Cohen's admissions show him to be a fixer. And with any fixer, you wonder what else he's fixing.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    An impeachment could well bring about President Pence.

    I am not sure that is anything to wish for.

    He is potentially in the firing line too. A number of the GOP hierarchy are. If not in legal terms certainly in association.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    rpjs said:

    Y0kel said:

    The inquiry is more likely to deliver a report on Trump himself either just before or after the mid terms whenever Congress is likely to be more Democrat friendly. If the GOP lose notably in those elections, not only will they cede the House, they will know they got a liability and concepts of 'country before party' might start to come into the vocabulary.

    Remember if a President commits a crime in office associated with abuse of that office, it needs Congress. If its unrelated or before he became president, Congress may not need to be involved.

    That’s unclear. It’s not settled law whether or not POTUS can be indicted while in office. AIUI most scholars think that sure, he can be indicted, but he can’t be tried until he leaves office. Only the Senate can try POTUS while in office, and only if the House has impeached him. And hoth, of course, are essentially political processes, not judicial.
    I understand its grey and perhaps in tone sounded more absolute than required, especially in that the nature and occasion of the crime may matter, but there is a fair chance the legal theory is going to get tested.

    I point out again to anyone following this. A surprising number of GOP guys on the Hill are not running again. They know, Ryan knows plenty well about some of the money sources. This isn't just going to reflect on Trump its going to reflect on swathes of the party.

    The actual legal papers around Cohen's charges reveal, not surprisingly, a lot more detail than the headline.
    Cohen's admissions show him to be a fixer. And with any fixer, you wonder what else he's fixing.
    I refer you to Mr Cohen's desire to travel to the lovely city of Prague.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    Farage having funnelled £500,000 to pay off two women, including a pornstar, really would be a story
    Please, I'm sure everyone here knows the story you are alluding to, but be careful what you write as we don't want to get Mike into legal trouble.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Y0kel said:

    An impeachment could well bring about President Pence.

    I am not sure that is anything to wish for.

    He is potentially in the firing line too. A number of the GOP hierarchy are. If not in legal terms certainly in association.
    Next in line of succession is Leader of the House of Representatives.

    Assuming Democrats take Congress, then it would be one of their number. And I do not see that is a way of establishing legitimacy for any President.

    Far more likely would be to inflict maximum damage on the Republicans and let them serve out the end of this term in hope of a big Electoral College win in November 2020.

    Trying to gain the presidency mid-term by way of impeachment might be legitimate in terms of the constitution - but it is no way democratic or desirable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    Punishment in all things has to be proportionate, things cannot be declared null and void for violations where the impact, even if significant, is difficult to quantify precisely. It's not an argument for people not being punished, but there is a reason every such violation does not result in elections being voided - it's a very awful idea.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    Farage having funnelled £500,000 to pay off two women, including a pornstar, really would be a story
    Please, I'm sure everyone here knows the story you are alluding to, but be careful what you write as we don't want to get Mike into legal trouble.
    That was actually accidental, but point taken
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,015
    Just in case anyone thought we hadn't been getting enough antisemitism.

    https://twitter.com/ColMorrisDavis/status/1032042875935186951
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    I do think my bet that Trump won't win the Nobel Peace Prize next month is looking rather good.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Does that last tweet from Keiran reamlly mean to say "Fox news: Clinton implicated in campaign finance lawbreaking" ??

    I think he’s joking!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,752

    I do think my bet that Trump won't win the Nobel Peace Prize next month is looking rather good.

    Hasn't Jeremy Corbyn been announced as the winner?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Campaign finance violators should not be allowed the fruits of victory.

    Shame the Lib Dems are happy to take donations from thieves then.

    Yes I know the Electoral Commission found you didn’t break any technical rules.

    But stop and think

    Michael Brown stole money from pensioners. And you guys were happy to keep it. Despicable.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    I do think my bet that Trump won't win the Nobel Peace Prize next month is looking rather good.

    Hasn't Jeremy Corbyn been announced as the winner?
    I believe he was asked 6 times - but couldn't come up with an answer to the question.
This discussion has been closed.