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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s special congressional election in Ohio could be a good pointer to November’s mid-terms

There’s a big “special” Congressional election ta1king place in Ohio’s 12th district which was won by the Republicans by 12 points in 2012 and 2016 – the former by Romney and the latter by Trump.

Read the full story here

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

Too tight for me, but best of luck to those who partake.

ydoethur

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

Philip_Thompson

Are both parties odds on?

ydoethur

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

Sean_F

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

When you consider it, Caesar, for all his brilliance, was a failure. His once-formidable political gifts had deserted him by the end.

AlastairMeeks

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1026507545895219200

surby

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

surby

Tonight, I hope, the celebration will be bigger than the win in Alabama.

ydoethur

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

When you consider it, Caesar, for all his brilliance, was a failure. His once-formidable political gifts had deserted him by the end.

He had a serious Caseius of megalomania. This led to him being Brutus-ly despatched.

That good enough to get us started?

Sunil_Prasannan

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

"Get your face out for the lads!"

DavidL

ydoethur said:

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

As a generality I agree with @currystar but how you determine in any individual case whether they are being compelled to wear it or chose to wear it is not obvious. I fear that we tolerate far too much "patriarchal" behaviour in parts of our society for cultural reasons and do not give many of these women the sort of support they are entitled to expect in a society nominally committed to equality.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Doethur, like Caesar at Gergovia, I fear Mr. Eagles got a bit over-excited and made an error of judgement.

ydoethur

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

Sunil_Prasannan

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

As a generality I agree with @currystar but how you determine in any individual case whether they are being compelled to wear it or chose to wear it is not obvious. I fear that we tolerate far too much "patriarchal" behaviour in parts of our society for cultural reasons and do not give many of these women the sort of support they are entitled to expect in a society nominally committed to equality.

One could argue that burqas are unislamic. After all, Allah (SWT), in His Infinite Wisdom, created us such that we are born stark-raving naked

Pulpstar

'Ali brandishing a bottle' - Here's the inside edge that'll probably save Stokes.

Sean_F

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

ydoethur

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

If it's light-coloured it might reflect heat and reduce sweating.

Philip_Thompson

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

Sean_F

ydoethur said:

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

If it's light-coloured it might reflect heat and reduce sweating.

The only ones I see in Luton are jet black.

ydoethur

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

If it's light-coloured it might reflect heat and reduce sweating.

The only ones I see in Luton are jet black.

Are those burkas or niqabs?

Afghanistan traditionally they are light blue or white. That's not however conclusive.

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

DavidL

Pulpstar said:

'Ali brandishing a bottle' - Here's the inside edge that'll probably save Stokes.

Even on the Crown's version of events both of the co-accused seem to have got weapons at different points. I suspect that is why this is affray rather than GBH.

williamglenn

Philip_Thompson said:

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

If you impose a recession against the will of the people at the time you're imposing it, in what sense are you doing it in the name of democracy?

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Now that's what I CALL trolling!

Do you make the comparison with elephantine tact?

Anorak

Philip_Thompson said:

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

I disagree that democracy would be sacrificed.

To be more nuanced: if membership of the EU reduces the value of my vote to a small degree (which I would contend) then the benefits would far, far outweigh that loss.

surby

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Hannibal? Not B.A. Barracus??

surby

Sunil_Prasannan said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

"Get your face out for the lads!"

Maybe they want to stay from you.

Slackbladder

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Hannibal? Not B.A. Barracus??

Corbyn is 'Howling Mad' Murdock.

Sean_F

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It's certainly not the right time to be considering a ban on the consumption of dogs.

Sunil_Prasannan

Of course, Alexander ventured as far east as India, somewhere neither Caesar nor Hannibal reached.

ydoethur

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It should be noted that they were Remainers:

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-council-agrees-resolution-on-the-eu-referendum/

It should also be noted that their not terribly scientific polling indicated 52% remain, 26% leave and 22% uncertain in EUROPE membership in November 2015, and although that dipped by March most had gone to 'undecided.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-survey-of-members-on-eu-referendum/

A lot of farmers have been kept solvent through EU environmental subsidies and tariff barriers to cheap food. The NFU will certainly want to keep us in the customs union if at all possible.

surby

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

As a generality I agree with @currystar but how you determine in any individual case whether they are being compelled to wear it or chose to wear it is not obvious. I fear that we tolerate far too much "patriarchal" behaviour in parts of our society for cultural reasons and do not give many of these women the sort of support they are entitled to expect in a society nominally committed to equality.

There is an assumption taht men force women to wear it. In some cases, it could be true. But, in all religions, the women tend to be more "traditional" rule followers.

I have seen with my Jewish friends that they would eat anything. Once the first child comes along, the kitchen becomes kosher. The men mostly go with the flow.

surby

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

As a generality I agree with @currystar but how you determine in any individual case whether they are being compelled to wear it or chose to wear it is not obvious. I fear that we tolerate far too much "patriarchal" behaviour in parts of our society for cultural reasons and do not give many of these women the sort of support they are entitled to expect in a society nominally committed to equality.

There is an assumption that men force women to wear it. In some cases, it could be true. But, in all religions, the women tend to be more "traditional" rule followers.

I have seen with my Jewish friends that they would eat anything. Once the first child comes along, the kitchen becomes kosher. The men mostly go with the flow.

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Now that's what I CALL trolling!

Do you make the comparison with elephantine tact?

Nope.

It’s more a wider Second Punic War Thread

Sean_F

ydoethur said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It should be noted that they were Remainers:

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-council-agrees-resolution-on-the-eu-referendum/

It should also be noted that their not terribly scientific polling indicated 52% remain, 26% leave and 22% uncertain in EUROPE membership in November 2015, and although that dipped by March most had gone to 'undecided.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-survey-of-members-on-eu-referendum/

A lot of farmers have been kept solvent through EU environmental subsidies and tariff barriers to cheap food. The NFU will certainly want to keep us in the customs union if at all possible.

I'd have thought a food shortage would be a licence to print money for farmers.

Morris_Dancer

Dr. Prasannan, in defence of Caesar and Hannibal, neither of them wanted to go to India.

Mr. Eagles, *sighs* One day you may learn... we can but hope.

grabcocque

surby said:

I have seen with my Jewish friends that they would eat anything. Once the first child comes along, the kitchen becomes kosher. The men mostly go with the flow.

All of my Jewish friends eat pork.

None of them want their mothers to know this.

Pulpstar

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Now that's what I CALL trolling!

Do you make the comparison with elephantine tact?

Nope.

It’s more a wider Second Punic War Thread

A long march to the East, overcoming many hostile tribes and difficult terrain, wins a few spectacular battles but due to passivity ultimately loses the war and everything else?

I suppose it could work.

TOPPING

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

tbf all the farmers I know voted Remain and not only because of the subsidies. They realised the disruption Brexit might cause.

ydoethur

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It should be noted that they were Remainers:

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-council-agrees-resolution-on-the-eu-referendum/

It should also be noted that their not terribly scientific polling indicated 52% remain, 26% leave and 22% uncertain in EUROPE membership in November 2015, and although that dipped by March most had gone to 'undecided.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-survey-of-members-on-eu-referendum/

A lot of farmers have been kept solvent through EU environmental subsidies and tariff barriers to cheap food. The NFU will certainly want to keep us in the customs union if at all possible.

I'd have thought a food shortage would be a licence to print money for farmers.

Not if (1) they can't grow enough food to meet demand, at which point not only do they not gain from it but thefts become a psossibility;

(2) if the Government suspends import restrictions to deal with it.

DecrepitJohnL

ydoethur said:

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

If it's light-coloured it might reflect heat and reduce sweating.

I vaguely recall that black works by air currents but have no time to research it.

RoyalBlue

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It should be noted that they were Remainers:

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-council-agrees-resolution-on-the-eu-referendum/

It should also be noted that their not terribly scientific polling indicated 52% remain, 26% leave and 22% uncertain in EUROPE membership in November 2015, and although that dipped by March most had gone to 'undecided.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-survey-of-members-on-eu-referendum/

A lot of farmers have been kept solvent through EU environmental subsidies and tariff barriers to cheap food. The NFU will certainly want to keep us in the customs union if at all possible.

I'd have thought a food shortage would be a licence to print money for farmers.

That will be true until collectivisation is completed and the richer ones have atoned for their bourgeois asset accumulation.

grabcocque

ydoethur said:

Not if (1) they can't grow enough food to meet demand, at which point not only do they not gain from it but thefts become a psossibility;

(2) if the Government suspends import restrictions to deal with it.

Plus they'll get the blame for it. For not growing enough food. Farmers: traitors and enemy of the people of Brexitania.

SquareRoot

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

AlastairMeeks

Jeremy Corbyn is more reminiscent of Julian the Apostate. A man of inflexible and long-held beliefs, vainly trying to resurrect a dead religion, he attracts curiosity, achieves considerable success in battle, before eventually falling victim to his own injudicious decisions about the near East.

Tissue_Price

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

"I've been in this room for eight years now, Clarice. I know they will never, ever let me out while I'm alive. What I want is a view. I want a window where I can see a tree, or even water. I want to be in a federal institution."

williamglenn

AlastairMeeks said:

Jeremy Corbyn is more reminiscent of Julian the Apostate. A man of inflexible and long-held beliefs, vainly trying to resurrect a dead religion, he attracts curiosity, achieves considerable success in battle, before eventually falling victim to his own injudicious decisions about the near East.

Not a bad likeness either.

Pulpstar

SquareRoot said:

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

Unless I'm misinterpreting (Which I may well be) seem the two he's duffed up were threatening with bottles.

TheScreamingEagles

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

Anorak

SquareRoot said:

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

Is there a market on this? Are you allowed to gamble on the outcome of criminal cases?

TheScreamingEagles

A mistrial should be declared in this trial.

It is all so confusing with Hale's and Hales involved.

Pulpstar

Anorak said:

SquareRoot said:

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

Is there a market on this? Are you allowed to gamble on the outcome of criminal cases?

Although obviously not the most important fact, Judge Massipa's incompetence cost me a couple of quid on Oscar Pistorius' trial. Paddy ran that one as a promo of sorts though so it was a bet to no loss.

AlastairMeeks

TheScreamingEagles said:

A mistrial should be declared in this trial.

It is all so confusing with Hale's and Hales involved.

Just be grateful Russell Harty isn't involved.

williamglenn

TheScreamingEagles said:

A mistrial should be declared in this trial.

It is all so confusing with Hale's and Hales involved.

They should have got Baroness Hale to be the judge.

David_Evershed

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

Burkha or Niqab ? Nuns effectively wear the burkha . It is the Niqab where there is a slit for the eyes only.

With the burkha you can see the whole face.

No, the burka is the overall body suit with gauze over the eyes. The niqab is a facecloth.

I think you're confusing that with the Hijab, which does indeed look like a nun's wimple.

In this hot weather, a burka must get rather smelly.

But aren't they all naked beneath - or is that just my imagination.

TheScreamingEagles

AlastairMeeks said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

A mistrial should be declared in this trial.

It is all so confusing with Hale's and Hales involved.

Just be grateful Russell Harty isn't involved.

Or Moeen Ali.

TheScreamingEagles

Tissue_Price said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

"I've been in this room for eight years now, Clarice. I know they will never, ever let me out while I'm alive. What I want is a view. I want a window where I can see a tree, or even water. I want to be in a federal institution."

Ha.

DavidL

surby said:

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

FPT:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Danny565 said:

To be fair to Boris (not a sentence I thought I'd say), I think his burqa comments fall into the "juvenile and stupid" category more than they do "racist". After all, it's not like a comparison to a letterbox is a commonly racist trope to my knowledge (though the comparison to a bank-robber is more questionable).

That said, I can't help but notice there's some PBers who've been very silent on this topic, who I'm 100% convinced would've been in paroxysms of outrage if a Labour activist had been discovered to have tweeted some mocking comments about Orthodox Jewish dress.

You can see Steve Bannon's approach already. Politicians will queue up to denounce Boris Johnson's remarks, only to find out time and again that the public have a much more robust view of what can be discussed. The idea is to cement Boris Johnson as the next Trump.

I do not dispute his right to say it. It confirms my assessment of him as a man with very poor judgment, very little discipline and completely unsuited to serious office though. But then, we all know that by now anyway.

I have to say that the Burkha is an absolutely ridiculous piece of clothing and if women are forced to wear it then I consider that wrong.

On the other hand, when I have fourteen year old girls coming to me in tears because someone has shouted sexual abuse at them and threatened to rape them in the street, I do start to understand why there are indeed women out there who prefer to look like a moving pillar box.

The issue is if they are forced to wear it when they don't want to.

As a generality I agree with @currystar but how you determine in any individual case whether they are being compelled to wear it or chose to wear it is not obvious. I fear that we tolerate far too much "patriarchal" behaviour in parts of our society for cultural reasons and do not give many of these women the sort of support they are entitled to expect in a society nominally committed to equality.

There is an assumption that men force women to wear it. In some cases, it could be true. But, in all religions, the women tend to be more "traditional" rule followers.

I have seen with my Jewish friends that they would eat anything. Once the first child comes along, the kitchen becomes kosher. The men mostly go with the flow.

Yep, it's complicated. My next door neighbour's son married a very traditional woman from Pakistan and the effect on the broader family is quite marked in terms of clothes, habits etc. Not liked it to be honest.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Doethur, passivity?

On the part of Hanno and the Peace Party, perhaps.

TheScreamingEagles

Anorak said:

SquareRoot said:

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

Is there a market on this? Are you allowed to gamble on the outcome of criminal cases?

Theoretically no.

A creative bookie may get around this, such as will Ben Stokes play in the third, fourth, or fifth tests, or in next year's world cup.

Shadsy pulled a similar trick when Chris Huhne was in trouble, such as 'Will Chris Huhne be in the cabinet at the time of the Lib Dem conference'

ydoethur

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Doethur, passivity?

On the part of Hanno and the Peace Party, perhaps.

Ah, the Blairites (although Corbyn would doubtless call them the War Party)!

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

That's what I was thinking as well.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Anorak said:

SquareRoot said:

Pulpstar said:

Stokes "Not guilty", calling it now.

why

Is there a market on this? Are you allowed to gamble on the outcome of criminal cases?

Theoretically no.

A creative bookie may get around this, such as will Ben Stokes play in the third, fourth, or fifth tests, or in next year's world cup.

Shadsy pulled a similar trick when Chris Huhne was in trouble, such as 'Will Chris Huhne be in the cabinet at the time of the Lib Dem conference'

I think it was John Mortimer who said a lifetime in the British criminal justice system had sated his appetite for gambling.

rcs1000

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/DaveGorman/status/1026759230102163456

DavidL

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

I saw Alex Hales in a bar in an hotel where the England team were staying. Let's just say that his reported height of 6ft 5inches really doesn't do him justice. He is a giant of a man.

felix

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

It is actually quite funny that @TSE has managed to get a first - but it was on a phantom thread.

I imagine that Morris Dancer will be lectured on the merits of Julius Caesar for the next five years for stealing his thunder!

I’ve got a thread coming up comparing Corbyn to Hannibal.

Now that's what I CALL trolling!

Do you make the comparison with elephantine tact?

Or maybe the thread title will have Corbyn as the 'elephant in the room'.

Philip_Thompson

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

If you impose a recession against the will of the people at the time you're imposing it, in what sense are you doing it in the name of democracy?

Recessions aren't imposed they're something that simply happens.

That's like saying you're imposing bad weather.

Pulpstar

Alex Hales behaviour seems odd here, why would he try and apparently stop Stokes then kick a man when he's down ?
That's disturbing.

ydoethur

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

I saw Alex Hales in a bar in an hotel where the England team were staying. Let's just say that his reported height of 6ft 5inches really doesn't do him justice. He is a giant of a man.

This has also been puzzling me in the reports he tried to stop Stokes and got brushed off. Really? Someone of that size and physique?

None of this is making sense at the moment. I'm wondering if the drunk was an officer on ASC.

David_Evershed

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

Anorak

TheScreamingEagles said:

Theoretically no.

A creative bookie may get around this, such as will Ben Stokes play in the third, fourth, or fifth tests, or in next year's world cup.

Shadsy pulled a similar trick when Chris Huhne was in trouble, such as 'Will Chris Huhne be in the cabinet at the time of the Lib Dem conference'

Cheers.

Pulpstar

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I thought it was San Marino.

David_Evershed

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

I saw Alex Hales in a bar in an hotel where the England team were staying. Let's just say that his reported height of 6ft 5inches really doesn't do him justice. He is a giant of a man.

Is Alex Hale only ever seen in bars?

oxfordsimon

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

It is a city state not a country.

DavidL

ydoethur said:

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

I saw Alex Hales in a bar in an hotel where the England team were staying. Let's just say that his reported height of 6ft 5inches really doesn't do him justice. He is a giant of a man.

This has also been puzzling me in the reports he tried to stop Stokes and got brushed off. Really? Someone of that size and physique?

None of this is making sense at the moment. I'm wondering if the drunk was an officer on ASC.

Stokes is 6'2" but yes, that does seem odd.

williamglenn

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

If you impose a recession against the will of the people at the time you're imposing it, in what sense are you doing it in the name of democracy?

Recessions aren't imposed they're something that simply happens.

That's like saying you're imposing bad weather.

In the case of a disruptive Brexit it's a choice, not an act of God.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It's certainly not the right time to be considering a ban on the consumption of dogs.

That article is estimating when the UK could run out of food if we had to be wholly self sufficient in food, which no-one is suggesting.

That would suggest the EU could impose an absolute economic blockade on the UK’s ability to trade with it and the rest of the world way more effective than the Kriegsmarine managed in WWII.

DavidL

Pulpstar said:

Alex Hales behaviour seems odd here, why would he try and apparently stop Stokes then kick a man when he's down ?
That's disturbing.

Just maybe because the guy swung at him with a bottle? But yes, it is a typically confusing situation. Presumably Hales was smart enough to keep his mouth shut when interviewed.

David_Evershed

ydoethur said:

DavidL said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Hmmm

Ryan Hale’s barrister Stephen Murray now back on his feet with more questions for DC Adams. Asks about Alex Hales - does DC Adams think he can be seen kicking a man in the head? Yes, says DC Adams. “Mr Stoke’s colleague has stamped down of Ryan Ali and kicked him.” Adams agrees

What? Then why was he not charged as well? What on earth is going on here?

I saw Alex Hales in a bar in an hotel where the England team were staying. Let's just say that his reported height of 6ft 5inches really doesn't do him justice. He is a giant of a man.

This has also been puzzling me in the reports he tried to stop Stokes and got brushed off. Really? Someone of that size and physique?

None of this is making sense at the moment. I'm wondering if the drunk was an officer on ASC.

ASC? - altered state of consciousness?

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

ydoethur said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It should be noted that they were Remainers:

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-council-agrees-resolution-on-the-eu-referendum/

It should also be noted that their not terribly scientific polling indicated 52% remain, 26% leave and 22% uncertain in EUROPE membership in November 2015, and although that dipped by March most had gone to 'undecided.'

https://www.nfuonline.com/news/brexit-news/eu-referendum-news/nfu-survey-of-members-on-eu-referendum/

A lot of farmers have been kept solvent through EU environmental subsidies and tariff barriers to cheap food. The NFU will certainly want to keep us in the customs union if at all possible.

I'd have thought a food shortage would be a licence to print money for farmers.

If one reads the article in full, it’s actually a lobbying effort for precisely that.

Anorak

Pulpstar said:

Alex Hales behaviour seems odd here, why would he try and apparently stop Stokes then kick a man when he's down ?
That's disturbing.

Well a friend tries to stop you getting into trouble, but also backs you up when you do.

Anorak

Mr Meeks was right. All part of the plan... [@Tissue - don't you hate it when that happens ]
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1026841313361178624

Tissue_Price

Beaten to it...

Philip_Thompson

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FPT

Anorak said:

Philip_Thompson said:

That's precisely what many in "the greatest generation" did. They sacrificed their lives to ensure we could be a free democracy.

I'm not prepared to throw away their sacrifice on the altar of potentially avoiding a one off recession.

So yes. Democracy and freedom are worth the loss of life. A recession is not.

Mental and utterly unspoofable.

So you are prepared to sacrifice democracy if it comes to it to avoid a small recession?

Or you don't consider democracy worth the sacrifices our ancestors fought for?

If you impose a recession against the will of the people at the time you're imposing it, in what sense are you doing it in the name of democracy?

Recessions aren't imposed they're something that simply happens.

That's like saying you're imposing bad weather.

In the case of a disruptive Brexit it's a choice, not an act of God.

We make choices all the time, that's democracy. The public were warned Brexit would cause a recession and voted for it anyway. If it happens that's still democracy and you get to say "I told you so"

Anazina

As I suggested earlier, some people are rather jumping the gun on the Ben Stokes case, as the defence has yet to make its case. Stokes will have a very good lawyer and the case is in any case very far from clear-cut. For instance, as far as I know, these two key witnesses have yet to be called to the stand...

https://news.sky.com/story/ben-stokes-was-defending-us-from-homophobic-abuse-say-gay-men-11101889

rcs1000

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

tlg86

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

I thought the Portugal/Spain border was the oldest border.

rcs1000

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It's certainly not the right time to be considering a ban on the consumption of dogs.

That article is estimating when the UK could run out of food if we had to be wholly self sufficient in food, which no-one is suggesting.

That would suggest the EU could impose an absolute economic blockade on the UK’s ability to trade with it and the rest of the world way more effective than the Kriegsmarine managed in WWII.

Fact for the day: we import a smaller proportion of the calories we eat today than in 1900.

Anorak

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

Wouldn't Greece be older? I wouldn't argue for it being the most successful country, mind.

oxfordsimon

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

France as we know it now is a relatively modern construct. Not as modern as Germany or Italy, but for centuries it really didn't have a consistent form. Gascony, Burgundy etc etc etc

rcs1000

Anorak said:

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

Wouldn't Greece be older? I wouldn't argue for it being the most successful country, mind.

It only become independent from the Ottomans in 1821.

AlastairMeeks

Anorak said:

Mr Meeks was right. All part of the plan... [@Tissue - don't you hate it when that happens ]
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1026841313361178624

It's so bloody obvious what the game is. What's depressing is that it's being fallen for again.

Anorak

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

surby said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/uk-run-out-of-food-no-deal-brexit-national-farmers-union

Project Fear from the NFU - The Tory Party of the Soil.

It's certainly not the right time to be considering a ban on the consumption of dogs.

That article is estimating when the UK could run out of food if we had to be wholly self sufficient in food, which no-one is suggesting.

That would suggest the EU could impose an absolute economic blockade on the UK’s ability to trade with it and the rest of the world way more effective than the Kriegsmarine managed in WWII.

Fact for the day: we import a smaller proportion of the calories we eat today than in 1900.

Really? Source or STFU, as the kidz say

[I'm actually quite interested]

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1026844827332358144

Casino_Royale

rcs1000 said:

David_Evershed said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm involved in my first ever Twitter spat. I'm so proud. I'm currently fighting with some chap over the Priti Patel tweet re the Penny Morduant quote about the UK being the "oldest and most successful" country in Europe.

Isn't Vatican City the oldest and most successful country in Europe?

I would argue Switzerland is the most successful country in Europe, and France is probably the oldest.

The Vatican only technically became a country in 1929.

We’d probably never be able to agree either the criteria or the top candidate.

I think Switzerland is beautiful, but I also find Zurich boring, and you could kill yourself in Geneva on a Sunday, the food isn’t all that, and it’s rather too regulated for my liking.

RobD

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/DaveGorman/status/1026759230102163456

Fake news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45083684