EEA can't be offered by May. In order for her party (and maybe Parliament) to even consider it, it would need to offered by a sensible leaver untainted by the chequers fiasco.
As I'm sure HYUFD will be here to remind us shortly, that leaves the rather large FoM elephant sitting right in front of the tellybox.
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
EEA can't be offered by May. In order for her party (and maybe Parliament) to even consider it, it would need to offered by a sensible leaver untainted by the chequers fiasco.
As I'm sure HYUFD will be here to remind us shortly, that leaves the rather large FoM elephant sitting right in front of the tellybox.
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
Oh I know, I know. But I still believe, and call me a big sweaty fool if you must, that a fudge is possible.
EFMINO with some Daily Mail bait about benefits I dunno.
@MarqueeMark - Makes me feel slightly better about getting a fix for a couple of years rather than variable, will have to see how the ground lays for March 2020 odd when I come to remortgage ^^;
I'm still on 0.49% above base, so I'm still not budging!
@MarqueeMark - Makes me feel slightly better about getting a fix for a couple of years rather than variable, will have to see how the ground lays for March 2020 odd when I come to remortgage ^^;
I'm still on 0.49% above base, so I'm still not budging!
That's very good. I have got 1.29% until March 2020 and I can pay off up to 10% of loan every year without penalty.
EEA can't be offered by May. In order for her party (and maybe Parliament) to even consider it, it would need to offered by a sensible leaver untainted by the chequers fiasco.
As I'm sure HYUFD will be here to remind us shortly, that leaves the rather large FoM elephant sitting right in front of the tellybox.
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
Oh I know, I know. But I still believe, and call me a big sweaty fool if you must, that a fudge is possible.
EFMINO with some Daily Mail bait about benefits I dunno.
Oh yes don't get me wrong I think some kind of FOMIABN would likely work I just don't see the mechanics of an EEA option getting put before the house.
Plus I can't see the EU going along with not calling one of their indivisible four freedoms a freedom.
IF this is true, they will lose at one member - me.
Anyone with even an iota of political nous will know such schemes are cynically hijacked by your opponents to ensure the leader finally chosen is the one least endearing to the general public. If Gina Miller wants to join the Party, fine, she would be most welcome. If she wants to stand as a LD candidate in an election, fine, she would have my support but I couldn't accept her as Party leader because she's "known".
We must as well have the couple from Love Island be co-leaders if that's the route we are going down.
I think it sounds like a splendid idea. The effect in the Labour Party was to create a much larger membership than would otherwise have been the case. I think this is good for our country. More members=more talent. So we can look forward to better politicians in the future. If the Lib Dems get the same effect then that gives us voters better choices. It's all good. I think the Tories should do it too.
Yup. I would vote for Bill Cash.
Have you stopped taking the tablets your Doctor prescribed>?
EEA can't be offered by May. In order for her party (and maybe Parliament) to even consider it, it would need to offered by a sensible leaver untainted by the chequers fiasco.
As I'm sure HYUFD will be here to remind us shortly, that leaves the rather large FoM elephant sitting right in front of the tellybox.
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
What if Telegraph readers are given M&S 20% off vouchers in return ?
EEA can't be offered by May. In order for her party (and maybe Parliament) to even consider it, it would need to offered by a sensible leaver untainted by the chequers fiasco.
As I'm sure HYUFD will be here to remind us shortly, that leaves the rather large FoM elephant sitting right in front of the tellybox.
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
Oh I know, I know. But I still believe, and call me a big sweaty fool if you must, that a fudge is possible.
EFMINO with some Daily Mail bait about benefits I dunno.
The EU has never compromised a word of free movement, it is one of the four freedoms. Anyone hoping for even a 1% fudge is kidding themselves.
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
I don't know how many times Barnier needs to shoot Chequers. It's already dead, Michel, you can't hurt it anymore!
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
A whole lot of not much if I'm being honest. Northants CC spend £870 million which is about half the amount of a SE shire or home county. It gets in income of £429 million and £140 million from central government grants yet it appears to have a shortfall of some £60 - £70 million.
To understand the Budget pressure, the expected spend on adult social care went from £203 million in 17-18 to £241 million in 18-19 - that's a long way in front of inflation and not, I suspect, uncommon among similar authorities.
There's a full Council at Northampton next Thursday when full details of the cuts (you say cuts, I say efficiency savings) will be revealed.
Oh, well ! Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
I don't think he means it, it's just a warning shot across the bow to any national leader thinking of wobbling in the face of May's great European grovelling tour.
Stokes got very, very lucky. Inconceivable he'll get another wicket today.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
Yes, look what you just did.
You have applied the reverse mockers, with a vengeance. We have no chance now.
Actually it's Kohli who's done that. He's played beautifully, waiting for the bad ball, playing with soft hands, never reckless or foolhardy. He really deserves that luck and it will surely continue until he's got 401.
(In exchange, could somebody tell me I've no chance of a par in the last 6 holes? Thanks.)
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
I think he's just making it ultra clear that no, the EU won't sign up to this unless May gives huge concessions. Which is fair enough (For him to be clear on that)
Stokes got very, very lucky. Inconceivable he'll get another wicket today.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
Yes, look what you just did.
You have applied the reverse mockers, with a vengeance. We have no chance now.
Actually it's Kohli who's done that. He's played beautifully, waiting for the bad ball, playing with soft hands, never reckless or foolhardy. He really deserves that luck and it will surely continue until he's got 401.
(In exchange, could somebody tell me I've no chance of a par in the last 6 holes? Thanks.)
None at all, and you ought to realise golf just isn't worth the effort. (Which is not to say that it requires much.)
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
I think he's just making it ultra clear that no, the EU won't sign up to this unless May gives huge concessions. Which is fair enough (For him to be clear on that)
Assuming that he really does think that May's proposal threatens the future of the EU, and wishes to avoid that, nothing prevents him from offering the UK something akin to what the EU and Canada agreed on, which I trust the EU does not regard as an existential threat.
Assuming that he really does think that May's proposal threatens the future of the EU, and wishes to avoid that, nothing prevents him from offering the UK something akin to what the EU and Canada agreed on, which I trust the EU does not regard as an existential threat.
The EU did offer CETA+, last March. The government rejected it as unworkable.
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
I think he's just making it ultra clear that no, the EU won't sign up to this unless May gives huge concessions. Which is fair enough (For him to be clear on that)
I don't think we can give any more, without the house of cards tumbling down. If you're right, we're screwed (again).
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
I think he's just making it ultra clear that no, the EU won't sign up to this unless May gives huge concessions. Which is fair enough (For him to be clear on that)
Assuming that he really does think that May's proposal threatens the future of the EU, and wishes to avoid that, nothing prevents him from offering the UK something akin to what the EU and Canada agreed on, which I trust the EU does not regard as an existential threat.
Italy isn't keen. It's threatening to veto CETA. This is why FTAs with the EU take so freaking long to negotiate .
Interesting that we have had a slew of posters in recent days with single digit posts to their name, all intent on trying to persuade us that Corbyn/Labour are not antisemitic, no sirree, not a bit of it.....
Co-ordinated much?
It's nice to know that Labour think we matter!
To say JVL are, ummm, not representative of the Jewish community is an understatement. Jackie Walker has a big role in it, which should set alarm bells ringing from the start.
I think it has about 100 members, if that.
Incidentally, very hot here in Tatton. On my way to the Lakes.
Interesting that we have had a slew of posters in recent days with single digit posts to their name, all intent on trying to persuade us that Corbyn/Labour are not antisemitic, no sirree, not a bit of it.....
Co-ordinated much?
It's nice to know that Labour think we matter!
To say JVL are, ummm, not representative of the Jewish community is an understatement. Jackie Walker has a big role in it, which should set alarm bells ringing from the start.
I think it has about 100 members, if that.
Incidentally, very hot here in Tatton. On my way to the Lakes.
I was there just over a week ago, as was @PhilipH on his stall
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
I hope Barnier is not on any success-related pay. Losing forty billion is going to take some making up with "efficiency savings" elsewhere.
What am I saying? This is the EU we're talking about.
Never mind the forties or fifties, there's never been a better time to be alive than right now. Well, at least if you're human. Other species might disagree.
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Now even as an ardent remainer I think that's just silly. If the EU is really so very fragile, a political orchid if you will, then there is seriously something wrong with it.
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
He’s being a short-sighted dickhead. They don’t threaten the single market at all, and its actually a phenomenally good deal for the EU.
He just seems to think the EU must have an unconditional surrender.
Never mind the forties or fifties, there's never been a better time to be alive than right now. Well, at least if you're human. Other species might disagree.
That's pretty much a summary of the article. Apart from the species bit. I imagine the North Atlantic right whale and the black rhino were rather happier in Roman times than now.
Never mind the forties or fifties, there's never been a better time to be alive than right now. Well, at least if you're human. Other species might disagree.
That's pretty much a summary of the article. Apart from the species bit. I imagine the North Atlantic right whale and the black rhino were rather happier in Roman times than now.
One thing I think Hastings missed is that our expectations were much lower in the 70s, so I do think we were _relatively_ happier - we certainly more easily pleased. 'Affluenza' doesn't seem to have lasted the course, but I think there was something in the basic concept.
*Also* CETA doesn't say anything about cooperation on home and justice affairs and the European arrest warrant
Aside from the desirability of the EAW in the first place (fair to say that not everyone is a fan thereof), there is no way that any Brexit deal can sort this one out as far as I can see. Doesn't Germany's constitution forbid extradition to any non-EU member state? That fact alone kills it off. Confused me why May was even trying to keep it, bearing in mind that would be one thing that - if she was properly advised - she would have known, essentially 100% sure, would have to be given up, so a daft potential sticking point to persist with, particularly if you are trying to look like you're being somewhat helpful and reasonable in the negotiation process.
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
Aside from the desirability of the EAW in the first place (fair to say that not everyone is a fan thereof), there is no way that any Brexit deal can sort this one out as far as I can see. Doesn't Germany's constitution forbid extradition to any non-EU member state? That fact alone kills it off. Confused me why May was even trying to keep it
I think it's to do with Europol, right? Being a signatory to the EAW is a requirement of being part of Europol's intelligence sharing community.
The government fears losing reliable access to a network of high quality counterterrorist intelligence.
I wonder how that will play in the Philippines, given they're relatively devout, and given Duterte's approach to criminals and especially drug dealers.
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I thought research suggested that there wasn't a great deal of difference in voting preference in the leadership election between longstanding members, members who had recently joined, and the £3 club?
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I thought research suggested that there wasn't a great deal of difference in voting preference in the leadership election between longstanding members, members who had recently joined, and the £3 club?
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I thought research suggested that there wasn't a great deal of difference in voting preference in the leadership election between longstanding members, members who had recently joined, and the £3 club?
I don't buy it. The momentum (small m) that started with the excitement of the £3 members started the ball rolling imho. But I'm not a member and people like NickP are far more qualified to comment.
Either way I stand by my concern that the LibDems could open themselves up to absolute disaster. Do they not think that Aaron Banks and Steve Bannon wouldn't think: hey ho, here's an idea...
Interesting that we have had a slew of posters in recent days with single digit posts to their name, all intent on trying to persuade us that Corbyn/Labour are not antisemitic, no sirree, not a bit of it.....
Co-ordinated much?
It's nice to know that Labour think we matter!
To say JVL are, ummm, not representative of the Jewish community is an understatement. Jackie Walker has a big role in it, which should set alarm bells ringing from the start.
I think it has about 100 members, if that.
Incidentally, very hot here in Tatton. On my way to the Lakes.
I was there just over a week ago, as was @PhilipH on his stall
One of @philiph's roses won Rose of the Year, I believe. Which is quite an achievement.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I'm all for involving more people in the Lib Dems. It's just a matter of making sure that the "more people" actually have liberal values. I see what happened to Labour as more a warning of how not to go about involving more people than as a warning to avoid involving more people at all. It's perfectly possible to increase participation in a sane way.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I'm all for involving more people in the Lib Dems. It's just a matter of making sure that the "more people" actually have liberal values. I see what happened to Labour as more a warning of how not to go about involving more people than as a warning to avoid involving more people at all. It's perfectly possible to increase participation in a sane way.
Honestly, I think it would be suicidal in the current climate.
Don't say I didn't warn the LibDems.
And I speak as someone who whole generations of family have been committed activists.
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
Lily Allen is clearly part of the evil liberal elite. What freedom fighters like Murdoch, Farage and Fox were doing attending the same lunch as her, heaven only knows.
I used to do a presentation (nominally about information assurance *yawn*) where I pointed out that compulsory seatbelt legislation failed in the HoP thrice before passing. This is counterintuitive, until you understand that the safest place to be after an accident in a 1960s car was outside it, even if egress was via the windscreen.
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
Lily Allen is clearly part of the evil liberal elite. What freedom fighters like Murdoch, Farage and Fox were doing attending the same lunch as her, heaven only knows.
Well quite....the reality, all these elite types get invited to the same social events.
Interesting that we have had a slew of posters in recent days with single digit posts to their name, all intent on trying to persuade us that Corbyn/Labour are not antisemitic, no sirree, not a bit of it.....
Co-ordinated much?
It's nice to know that Labour think we matter!
To say JVL are, ummm, not representative of the Jewish community is an understatement. Jackie Walker has a big role in it, which should set alarm bells ringing from the start.
I think it has about 100 members, if that.
Incidentally, very hot here in Tatton. On my way to the Lakes.
I was there just over a week ago, as was @PhilipH on his stall
One of @philiph's roses won Rose of the Year, I believe. Which is quite an achievement.
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
Didn't quite a few PB Tories sign up and vote for Jezza to 'guarantee' a Tory landslide at the suceeding GE?
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
Didn't quite a few PB Tories sign up and vote for Jezza to 'guarantee' a Tory landslide at the suceeding GE?
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
Lily Allen is clearly part of the evil liberal elite. What freedom fighters like Murdoch, Farage and Fox were doing attending the same lunch as her, heaven only knows.
Well quite....the reality, all these elite types get invited to the same social events.
Indeed. Given how often the elite are berated on here as Remainers against the 'will of the people' I wonder what the Remain:Leave split is among them? I'd guess (of course I would) that it's much more por-Leave because their wealth insulates them from any of the downsides.
LibDems would be wise to listen to people in Labour who have been left feeling like this, thanks to the idea of opening up the party to a wider group of "supporters":
It’s thanks to 35 Labour MPs nominating Corbyn. Without him these new members wouldn’t have had a hard left candidate to vote for in the first place. Fiona Millar should ask Labour moderates what were they thinking when they wanted to ‘widen the debate’ by nominating Corbyn.
Oh yes, I agree. It has been a series of dominoes. But it began, and this is the bit that matters to the LibDems, by a whacky idea about involving more people in politics and in running the party.
I thought research suggested that there wasn't a great deal of difference in voting preference in the leadership election between longstanding members, members who had recently joined, and the £3 club?
Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).
In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.
The paper goes on to analyse why Corbyn won where Abbott failed, and argues that the leftward shift in membership base was only of minor importance (a lot of Corbyn supporters backed one or other of the Milibands the time before). What mattered was changing atttudes, weakening of the electablility argument after Miliband's surprise loss to a Tory majority, the shock of losing Scotland, and increasing impatience with austerity. Basically that Labour's membership was always left-wing but had previously held its nose and backed more moderate candidates.
I used to do a presentation (nominally about information assurance *yawn*) where I pointed out that compulsory seatbelt legislation failed in the HoP thrice before passing. This is counterintuitive, until you understand that the safest place to be after an accident in a 1960s car was outside it, even if egress was via the windscreen.
That's a good example. Lots of things that were way off limits in the past have become pretty mainstream in the past 50 years. I wonder what which of our current attitudes will look bizarre in 2068?
I suppose the general PB consensus on these things is when minorities request things like this you have to protect their rights. At least I assume that covers Muslims as well.....
This was raised the other day and I responded that of course Palestinians (remember that not all Palestinians are Muslims though it is interesting that you should assume so) could raise what they wanted. Provided that they also realised that others could also raise issues which Palestinians might find embarrassing. For instance, what happens to all the money sent by European authorities to Palestinian authorities? Why do the Palestinian authorities reward those who kill Jews? What gets taught in Palestinian schools to children? And so on and so forth.
Free speech not being a one-way street, and all that.
Of course you are right not all Israelis Palestinians are Jewish Muslims.
Also interesting that you comment on the two way nature of free speech, criticism of Isreal Palestine and the occupation resistance should of course not be restricted on the basis of their minority status.
Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).
In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.
The paper goes on to analyse why Corbyn won where Abbott failed, and argues that the leftward shift in membership base was only of minor importance (a lot of Corbyn supporters backed one or other of the Milibands the time before). What mattered was changing atttudes, weakening of the electablility argument after Miliband's surprise loss to a Tory majority, the shock of losing Scotland, and increasing impatience with austerity. Basically that Labour's membership was always left-wing but had previously held its nose and backed more moderate candidates.
Thanks for that info. I also had previously thought that the Labour membership was always pretty left wing. I can’t believe that anyone thought the Labour membership was dominated by people with the outlook of Tony Blair. The views documented in that poll of Labour members earlier on this year (e.g. negative view of American influence, negative view of Israel) seemed to shock a lot of the commentariat on twitter, but I suspect Labour members have long had that outlook.
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
Lily Allen is clearly part of the evil liberal elite. What freedom fighters like Murdoch, Farage and Fox were doing attending the same lunch as her, heaven only knows.
Well quite....the reality, all these elite types get invited to the same social events.
Indeed. Given how often the elite are berated on here as Remainers against the 'will of the people' I wonder what the Remain:Leave split is among them? I'd guess (of course I would) that it's much more por-Leave because their wealth insulates them from any of the downsides.
I've not seen any post-EU ref polling on anything more fine-grained than the old ABC1 splits. However, I do recall Shipman asserting that Cameron gave that almost impromptu speech outside Downing Street on the 21st because their research was showing that many over 50s had 'no skin in the game' due to affluence. Hence his appeal directly to our generation.
Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).
In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.
The paper goes on to analyse why Corbyn won where Abbott failed, and argues that the leftward shift in membership base was only of minor importance (a lot of Corbyn supporters backed one or other of the Milibands the time before). What mattered was changing atttudes, weakening of the electablility argument after Miliband's surprise loss to a Tory majority, the shock of losing Scotland, and increasing impatience with austerity. Basically that Labour's membership was always left-wing but had previously held its nose and backed more moderate candidates.
Thanks for that info. I also had previously thought that the Labour membership was always pretty left wing. I can’t believe that anyone thought the Labour membership was dominated by people with the outlook of Tony Blair. The views documented in that poll of Labour members earlier on this year (e.g. negative view of American influence, negative view of Israel) seemed to shock a lot of the commentariat on twitter, but I suspect Labour members have long had that outlook.
The key point is that at the time of the leadership election they were no longer prepared to do the usual thing and turn their back on the left in favour of a supposedly "electable" candidate. If only Mrs Beckett and the others had been more aware of their members' changing attitudes!
The ongoing fallout from the financial crash coupled with Miliband's failure on a centerist platform appear to be the principal drivers, with the supporter programme and the membership expansion just adding fuel to the fire.
That the supporter programme became the mechanism that decimated the Green Party was something I didn't realise, assuming like most people that they came after Corbyn rather than before.
What I take from that picture...Lily Allen is a posho...who hangs around at events with other poshos, while pretending to the yuff to be just like them.
Lily Allen is clearly part of the evil liberal elite. What freedom fighters like Murdoch, Farage and Fox were doing attending the same lunch as her, heaven only knows.
Well quite....the reality, all these elite types get invited to the same social events.
Indeed. Given how often the elite are berated on here as Remainers against the 'will of the people' I wonder what the Remain:Leave split is among them? I'd guess (of course I would) that it's much more por-Leave because their wealth insulates them from any of the downsides.
I've not seen any post-EU ref polling on anything more fine-grained than the old ABC1 splits. However, I do recall Shipman asserting that Cameron gave that almost impromptu speech outside Downing Street on the 21st because their research was showing that many over 50s had 'no skin in the game' due to affluence. Hence his appeal directly to our generation.
Your generation John, as sadly I am well over 50 now - but there's plenty of us over 50 who put the country and future generations before fantasies of Little England (just not a majority, it seems - yet!)
Incidentally, thinking of drops and slips, surely if Stokes is available and Moeen comes back Malan will get the chop? Can't buy a run and has dropped two vital catches.
On today's innings, three of England's batsmen did an OK job - Root, Bairstow and Jennings. Only Kohli can say the same for India and he's had to have several let-offs.
This has not been an impressive match by the batsmen.
Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).
In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.
The snip
Thanks for that info. I also had previously thought that the Labour membership was always pretty left wing. I can’t believe that anyone thought the Labour membership was dominated by people with the outlook of Tony Blair. The views documented in that poll of Labour members earlier on this year (e.g. negative view of American influence, negative view of Israel) seemed to shock a lot of the commentariat on twitter, but I suspect Labour members have long had that outlook.
The key point is that at the time of the leadership election they were no longer prepared to do the usual thing and turn their back on the left in favour of a supposedly "electable" candidate. If only Mrs Beckett and the others had been more aware of their members' changing attitudes!
The ongoing fallout from the financial crash coupled with Miliband's failure on a centerist platform appear to be the principal drivers, with the supporter programme and the membership expansion just adding fuel to the fire.
That the supporter programme became the mechanism that decimated the Green Party was something I didn't realise, assuming like most people that they came after Corbyn rather than before.
Re your first point - yes, just reading the research paper moderates had also donated votes to Diane Abbott’s candidacy in 2010. I suspect they thought Corbyn’s campaign would go the same way. I remember in 2015 that people like Toby Young were claiming Labour lost because they were ‘too left wing.’
Comments
Sees that interest rates are slowly getting off the floor, and that England’s bowlers are doing a better job than their batsmen did yesterday.
Returns to lurking for a few more hours...
The sense of outrage on the Telegraph letters page would burn through to the obits.
You have applied the reverse mockers, with a vengeance.
We have no chance now.
EFMINO with some Daily Mail bait about benefits I dunno.
Plus I can't see the EU going along with not calling one of their indivisible four freedoms a freedom.
https://www.facebook.com/UNILADgrub/videos/1170011153166563/
UK's Brexit proposals threaten future of EU, says Barnier
Article by EU Brexit negotiator will be seen as rebuff to efforts by UK to persuade individual EU leaders to back its vision
Oh, well !
Or it's just Barnier's turn to lead the dance...
News from the "crisis meeting" at Northants CC last evening:
https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2018/08/northants-plans-radical-service-reductions-following-second-114-notice1?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_term=
A whole lot of not much if I'm being honest. Northants CC spend £870 million which is about half the amount of a SE shire or home county. It gets in income of £429 million and £140 million from central government grants yet it appears to have a shortfall of some £60 - £70 million.
To understand the Budget pressure, the expected spend on adult social care went from £203 million in 17-18 to £241 million in 18-19 - that's a long way in front of inflation and not, I suspect, uncommon among similar authorities.
There's a full Council at Northampton next Thursday when full details of the cuts (you say cuts, I say efficiency savings) will be revealed.
(In exchange, could somebody tell me I've no chance of a par in the last 6 holes? Thanks.)
(Which is not to say that it requires much.)
https://twitter.com/PaddyBriggs/status/1019845555894345728
Incidentally, very hot here in Tatton. On my way to the Lakes.
*Also* CETA doesn't resolve the Northern Ireland issue
*Also* CETA doesn't say anything about the status of EU citizens in the UK and vice versa
*Also* CETA doesn't say anything about the divorce bill and the countless Euroquangoes the UK is remaining part of
*Also* CETA doesn't say anything about cooperation on home and justice affairs and the European arrest warrant
Other than that it's a perfect deal.
What am I saying? This is the EU we're talking about.
oh man I love the sunlit uplands
As said, the trade part of our relations with the EU is the 'easy' part.
He just seems to think the EU must have an unconditional surrender.
That isn’t going to happen.
Just curious to see what my new avatar is like, although since I don't recall what the old one was it's unlikely to bother me much.
Aside from the desirability of the EAW in the first place (fair to say that not everyone is a fan thereof), there is no way that any Brexit deal can sort this one out as far as I can see. Doesn't Germany's constitution forbid extradition to any non-EU member state? That fact alone kills it off. Confused me why May was even trying to keep it, bearing in mind that would be one thing that - if she was properly advised - she would have known, essentially 100% sure, would have to be given up, so a daft potential sticking point to persist with, particularly if you are trying to look like you're being somewhat helpful and reasonable in the negotiation process.
It doesn't work like that.
The government fears losing reliable access to a network of high quality counterterrorist intelligence.
But I can't see Cook or Malan taking another catch today.
"It wasn't the death penalty, your Holiness, it was a complimentary flying lesson."
Either way I stand by my concern that the LibDems could open themselves up to absolute disaster. Do they not think that Aaron Banks and Steve Bannon wouldn't think: hey ho, here's an idea...
Have Labour moderate MPs split yet?
Don't say I didn't warn the LibDems.
And I speak as someone who whole generations of family have been committed activists.
https://tinyurl.com/yat9cadx
And uncooperative umpires.
http://repository.essex.ac.uk/17434/1/Quinn_Labour_Leadership_Election_2015_Accepted_Version_2.pdf
Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).
In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.
The paper goes on to analyse why Corbyn won where Abbott failed, and argues that the leftward shift in membership base was only of minor importance (a lot of Corbyn supporters backed one or other of the Milibands the time before). What mattered was changing atttudes, weakening of the electablility argument after Miliband's surprise loss to a Tory majority, the shock of losing Scotland, and increasing impatience with austerity. Basically that Labour's membership was always left-wing but had previously held its nose and backed more moderate candidates.
IsraelisPalestinians areJewishMuslims.Also interesting that you comment on the two way nature of free speech, criticism of
IsrealPalestine and theoccupationresistance should of course not be restricted on the basis of their minority status.The ongoing fallout from the financial crash coupled with Miliband's failure on a centerist platform appear to be the principal drivers, with the supporter programme and the membership expansion just adding fuel to the fire.
That the supporter programme became the mechanism that decimated the Green Party was something I didn't realise, assuming like most people that they came after Corbyn rather than before.
On today's innings, three of England's batsmen did an OK job - Root, Bairstow and Jennings. Only Kohli can say the same for India and he's had to have several let-offs.
This has not been an impressive match by the batsmen.