Well, that's one way of moving the discussion on from Willsman.
Long running story about political infighting and racism vs huge (presumably) populist proposal for the poor. Tough choice.
Of course that is one of the hallmarks of the antisemitism stories - it always gets bumped off the headlines, we don't hear about it for months, then it pops up again and so on and so forth. I don't think that is a deliberate strategy, just that it is one of those stories which is cyclical.
Hmm. Basic Income is eye-wateringly, unbelievably costly. Just billions and billions. Not that I am totally against the idea, but McD better be ready with more than a few figures on the back of a fag packet for this one.
Let's assume £10,000 for everybody over 16 who is a British resident for at least five years. That's around 43 million people.
Let's also assume however that one-fifth are pensioners so the number goes down to about 35 million.
Three million are on benefits totalling less than this, true, but still a significant sum. Make that the equivalent of 33.5 million to pay.
That's £335 billion - three times the budget of the NHS and not far short of the total NHS, welfare and care budget.
The total budget for 2017-18 is £802 billion.
So that's a 50% increase in expenditure before we've paid for anything else at all (tuition fees, school meals, nationalising water, free unicorns...)
Even on the back of a fag packet I don't see how this adds up. It can't be universal on those numbers.
The article says "Labour set to include pilot of radical basic income policy in next manifesto" So Pilot only.
£10k pp sounds far too high to me, surely it would be closer to the basic state pension? The Finnish trial was closer to £6k pp.
Don't forget it would be taxable, so quite a few would be paying 20% or 40% straight back. Not sure about NI.
Still gonna cost a lot though!
No way is it gonna be more than, say, ESA, which is about £5K a year (less if you don't make the support group). Carers Allowance is £3.5k.
The other issue is the DWP will still be dealing with the clusterfuck that is known as UC. So this pilot will definitely need to be a pilot for whole of first term of Corbyn.
As I say, I'm not totally against the idea in general, but all in all, this McD announcement today smacks of 'look squirrel', after a dire day for Labour.
Haha! It's a good job my dog can't read... he'd have been crashing through the patio doors at 'look squirrel'. In fact just 'squirrel' in an excited voice is enough!
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
Well, that's one way of moving the discussion on from Willsman.
Long running story about political infighting and racism vs huge (presumably) populist proposal for the poor. Tough choice.
Of course that is one of the hallmarks of the antisemitism stories - it always gets bumped off the headlines, we don't hear about it for months, then it pops up again and so on and so forth. I don't think that is a deliberate strategy, just that it is one of those stories which is cyclical.
Hmm. Basic Income is eye-wateringly, unbelievably costly. Just billions and billions. Not that I am totally against the idea, but McD better be ready with more than a few figures on the back of a fag packet for this one.
Let's assume £10,000 for everybody over 16 who is a British resident for at least five years. That's around 43 million people.
Let's also assume however that one-fifth are pensioners so the number goes down to about 35 million.
Three million are on benefits totalling less than this, true, but still a significant sum. Make that the equivalent of 33.5 million to pay.
That's £335 billion - three times the budget of the NHS and not far short of the total NHS, welfare and care budget.
The total budget for 2017-18 is £802 billion.
So that's a 50% increase in expenditure before we've paid for anything else at all (tuition fees, school meals, nationalising water, free unicorns...)
Even on the back of a fag packet I don't see how this adds up. It can't be universal on those numbers.
The difference is the tax rises on those above Basic Income..... They will be massive.
Which is dangerous for Labour. The whole key to their appeal last year was (admittedly uncosted) vast bungs to middle and upper-middle income brackets which were promised without tax rises. Knock that prop away and they would be back down to 25%.
Nah, they've come up with a solution to traditional economic theories. If you look through Twitter the true Momentum believers have nailed the old 'fiat currency' conundrum and discovered a way to print and spend hundreds of billions of pounds without ever having to pay it back or worry themselves about trivial bollocks like inflation. Go look at the threads on it. They really believe it works and that they've mastered economics. Basically free money for everyone (apart from Tories) forever.
Have they renamed themselves the Gogalfrinchams yet?
Blinking heck, I had to Google that and I've even read the book!
Haha! It's a good job my dog can't read... he'd have been crashing through the patio doors at 'look squirrel'. In fact just 'squirrel' in an excited voice is enough!
When I was doing my PGCE one of my fellow students actually chased a squirrel all round one of the parks in York. I don't know why, although she was a trifle, umm, individualist and may just have thought it was a good idea. We all stood there trying to look as though she was nothing to do with us.
She was, although I think this was unconnected, a Corbynista before Corbyn was Labour leader.
You middle class cocaine users , who preach on here , are hypocrites . About time someone from the Police and politicians called them out.
Is she snorting about it?
I think she has finally Cracked. The Met are on the Rocks.
To be serious, given she should have been quietly promoted to Chief Superintendent for Paperclips after the de Menezes shooting and coverup, that is not surprising, but I do take issue with 'finally.'
Bollox , she had to make the call as Gold commander , with the information she had at the time. Easy for you to sit there making judgement knowing f Al! ,,about it.
I was thinking mostly of the coverup. Easy to make a mistake particularly at the time. Very difficult to justify what happened afterwards.
Unless you think that the jury were wrong in accusing all the officers involved of perjury?
With the information she was given as Gold Commander in real time .She made the call.
You said flippantly she should have been demoted , I disagree with your assessment.
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
UBI is a fascinating idea, I'd love for it to be explored more fully, and I feel like one day this might be the norm. Saying that it costs X billion, or that some might lose out, etc. might be slightly missing the point. In fact one benefit might be that it nullifies such arguments and represents a total reset of our tax system, which I consider to be a bit broken. E.g. it seems to be impossible now to announce a tax cut or tax rise without it "unravelling" in hours when some unintended consequence is unearthed.
You middle class cocaine users , who preach on here , are hypocrites . About time someone from the Police and politicians called them out.
Is she snorting about it?
I think she has finally Cracked. The Met are on the Rocks.
To be serious, given she should have been quietly promoted to Chief Superintendent for Paperclips after the de Menezes shooting and coverup, that is not surprising, but I do take issue with 'finally.'
Bollox , she had to make the call as Gold commander , with the information she had at the time. Easy for you to sit there making judgement knowing f Al! ,,about it.
I was thinking mostly of the coverup. Easy to make a mistake particularly at the time. Very difficult to justify what happened afterwards.
Unless you think that the jury were wrong in accusing all the officers involved of perjury?
With the information she was given as Gold Commander in real time .She made the call.
You said flippantly she should have been demoted , I disagree with your assessment.
OK. You and I clearly have different views about how important perjury is. I would have said such a devastating charge by a coroner's jury should have ruled her out of further office. If you're happy with a Met commissioner you can't trust (admittedly that's hardly unusual) that's your decision.
Well, that's one way of moving the discussion on from Willsman.
Long running story about political infighting and racism vs huge (presumably) populist proposal for the poor. Tough choice.
Of course that is one of the hallmarks of the antisemitism stories - it always gets bumped off the headlines, we don't hear about it for months, then it pops up again and so on and so forth. I don't think that is a deliberate strategy, just that it is one of those stories which is cyclical.
Hmm. Basic Income is eye-wateringly, unbelievably costly. Just billions and billions. Not that I am totally against the idea, but McD better be ready with more than a few figures on the back of a fag packet for this one.
Let's assume £10,000 for everybody over 16 who is a British resident for at least five years. That's around 43 million people.
Let's also assume however that one-fifth are pensioners so the number goes down to about 35 million.
Three million are on benefits totalling less than this, true, but still a significant sum. Make that the equivalent of 33.5 million to pay.
That's £335 billion - three times the budget of the NHS and not far short of the total NHS, welfare and care budget.
The total budget for 2017-18 is £802 billion.
So that's a 50% increase in expenditure before we've paid for anything else at all (tuition fees, school meals, nationalising water, free unicorns...)
Even on the back of a fag packet I don't see how this adds up. It can't be universal on those numbers.
The difference is the tax rises on those above Basic Income..... They will be massive.
Which is dangerous for Labour. The whole key to their appeal last year was (admittedly uncosted) vast bungs to middle and upper-middle income brackets which were promised without tax rises. Knock that prop away and they would be back down to 25%.
Nah, they've come up with a solution to traditional economic theories. If you look through Twitter the true Momentum believers have nailed the old 'fiat currency' conundrum and discovered a way to print and spend hundreds of billions of pounds without ever having to pay it back or worry themselves about trivial bollocks like inflation. Go look at the threads on it. They really believe it works and that they've mastered economics. Basically free money for everyone (apart from Tories) forever.
I take it the BoE will be bought back under the Treasury within hours of Labour getting office?
I am pretty sure we will get an announcement of either abolition of Lords or 100s of new Momentum peers within hours of election win.
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
He was a councillor once iirc.
Yes for the SDP and then the Lib Dems in post Oxford North ward in the late 80s - when he was an academic and PPE tutor.
Nah, they've come up with a solution to traditional economic theories. If you look through Twitter the true Momentum believers have nailed the old 'fiat currency' conundrum and discovered a way to print and spend hundreds of billions of pounds without ever having to pay it back or worry themselves about trivial bollocks like inflation. Go look at the threads on it. They really believe it works and that they've mastered economics. Basically free money for everyone (apart from Tories) forever.
Have they renamed themselves the Gogalfrinchams yet?
Blinking heck, I had to Google that and I've even read the book!
Either the plan is to be beastly to foreign visitors, or perhaps the British queue has free tea and jammie dodgers to welcome Brits back from forign parts.
You middle class cocaine users , who preach on here , are hypocrites . About time someone from the Police and politicians called them out.
Is she snorting about it?
I think she has finally Cracked. The Met are on the Rocks.
To be serious, given she should have been quietly promoted to Chief Superintendent for Paperclips after the de Menezes shooting and coverup, that is not surprising, but I do take issue with 'finally.'
Bollox , she had to make the call as Gold commander , with the information she had at the time. Easy for you to sit there making judgement knowing f Al! ,,about it.
I was thinking mostly of the coverup. Easy to make a mistake particularly at the time. Very difficult to justify what happened afterwards.
Unless you think that the jury were wrong in accusing all the officers involved of perjury?
With the information she was given as Gold Commander in real time .She made the call.
You said flippantly she should have been demoted , I disagree with your assessment.
OK. You and I clearly have different views about how important perjury is. I would have said such a devastating charge by a coroner's jury should have ruled her out of further office. If you're happy with a Met commissioner you can't trust (admittedly that's hardly unusual) that's your decision.
Bit higher than me and you made the decision to promote her, to the highest position in policing in this country.
I will agree with them, rather than you. Even though you come over as someone , who thinks he knows he is correct about everything.
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
He was a councillor once iirc.
Also a real rarity in that he has risen to the Lords from a childhood in care homes.
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
He was a councillor once iirc.
Also a real rarity in that he has risen to the Lords from a childhood in care homes.
Yes he had a tough start as his mum left and his dad couldn't cope so he was placed in care. But he was lucky enough to get a local authority grant to go to boarding school. Something the Labour Party he later joined would deny to bright working class kids in the same position now.
UBI is a fascinating idea, I'd love for it to be explored more fully, and I feel like one day this might be the norm. Saying that it costs X billion, or that some might lose out, etc. might be slightly missing the point. In fact one benefit might be that it nullifies such arguments and represents a total reset of our tax system, which I consider to be a bit broken. E.g. it seems to be impossible now to announce a tax cut or tax rise without it "unravelling" in hours when some unintended consequence is unearthed.
Presumably, if UBI was set at say £10,000, income tax and NI could apply fro the first pound of earnings, and a lot of benefits and Pensions would be obselete, so the costs are not as riduculous as mooted.
I am not keen though. It sounds the UC will be enough chaos.
If he hasn’t heard of Pete Willsman, he’s not been deeply in Labour politics. Willsman is a big deal on the left.
Adonis was an appointee who, as far as one can tell, has never really seemed bothered with electorates, internal or external. For better or worse, he’s the living definition of a technocrat.
He was a councillor once iirc.
Also a real rarity in that he has risen to the Lords from a childhood in care homes.
Yes he had a tough start as his mum left and his dad couldn't cope so he was placed in care. But he was lucky enough to get a local authority grant to go to boarding school. Something the Labour Party he later joined would deny to bright working class kids in the same position now.
He received his local authority grant aged 11, in 1975 so under a Labour government. Mrs Thatchers Assisted Places Scheme came much later.
Comments
She was, although I think this was unconnected, a Corbynista before Corbyn was Labour leader.
You said flippantly she should have been demoted , I disagree with your assessment.
I am pretty sure we will get an announcement of either abolition of Lords or 100s of new Momentum peers within hours of election win.
Good night.
With my Irish passport card in one pocket and my UK passport in the other I will be spoilt for choice!
I will agree with them, rather than you.
Even though you come over as someone , who thinks he knows he is correct about everything.
I am not keen though. It sounds the UC will be enough chaos.
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