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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2018 London Local Elections : The religious factors analysed

On Thursday Willesden Green (a place well known to fans of DangerMouse) returned three Labour councillors in the election that was deferred from the local elections, but in doing so completed those local elections and allowed us to make the following analysis. Normally I do so with a commentary of my own, but given the subject matter I shall let the figures do the talking and allow other members to form their own opinions.

Read the full story here

another_richard

What's the definition of these three types of ward ?

another_richard

So what changed between 2014 and 2018 ?

Well in 2014 the Labour leader was of Jewish background and in 2018 the Labour party was widely regarded as anti-semitic (whether accurately or not is perhaps irrelevent).

Cyclefree

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

GarethoftheVale2

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

another_richard

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I wonder how much Ed Miliband being Jewish cost Labour in 2015.

Philip_Thompson

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

another_richard

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

And who are the 23.7% Others in the Christian wards ?

Philip_Thompson

another_richard said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

And who are the 23.7% Others in the Christian wards ?

Residents Association etc

TheScreamingEagles

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Foxy

another_richard said:

So what changed between 2014 and 2018 ?

Well in 2014 the Labour leader was of Jewish background and in 2018 the Labour party was widely regarded as anti-semitic (whether accurately or not is perhaps irrelevent).

Isn't it mostly accounted for by the swing back to Labour from Lutfer Rahman's "Tower Hamlets First Party"?

Omnium

Horrible, divisive header.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin....

...and this guy?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44613587

Khalid Ali, 28, was arrested on 27 April 2017 in Parliament Street, where he was caught carrying three knives.
Prosecutors said Ali, from Edmonton in north London, had planned a "murderous attack" on politicians and police.
In a police interview, Ali said he wanted to deliver a "message" to British authorities, but claimed the knives were for protection.
An Old Bailey jury convicted him of preparing an act of terrorism in the UK and two counts of possessing an explosive substance with intent. He did not react as the verdicts were read out.
Ali will be sentenced on 20 July.

ydoethur

Are these results just for Willesden Green?

Sunil_Prasannan

Aren't there any Jedi wards? Hindu wards? Sikh wards?

brendan16

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

There Fewer than 300,000 Jews in the UK. - and their population share and voting strength is declining each year. Bar Barnet and parts of Camden I am not sure where their votes have much effect anymore. Redbridge used to have a large Jewish community - not so much any more.

Certain other religious groups - some of whose adherents may be less sympathetic to the cause - are by contrast growing rapidly.

bigjohnowls

Good Night

Tomorrows weather forecast

SCORCHIO

another_richard

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

TheScreamingEagles

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

ydoethur

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Aren't there any Jedi wards? Hindu wards? Sikh wards?

The latter come under Christian wards - where ye Sikh ye will find.

bigjohnowls

https://t.co/QwWvC3i8Dc

Sean_F

Which wards are these?

How do you define Muslim, Christian, Jewish wards?

AFAIK, no ward is majority Jewish. A small number are majority Muslim. Most are majority Christian, albeit, in most cases, those are nominal, rather than actual, Christians.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

On 22 April last year - one month after the Westminster terror attack - Ali was caught on CCTV walking past the MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross, as well as Westminster Bridge, the Houses of Parliament and Whitehall.

Five days later, his mother called police and said she had found four knives in his bedroom.

Police swooped in to arrest him just metres from Downing Street later that day.

Ali had spent several years in Afghanistan, and when asked by British police whether he had returned to the UK for jihad, he replied: "Jihad is what we do. We are Mujahideen."

Ali had three blades tucked into his clothes when he was arrested by armed police

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon described Ali as an "incredibly dangerous individual".



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44613587

kle4

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

I confess, I didn't know backstabber was an apparent anti-semitic trope, though I suppose given the 'sneaky' trope it makes sense.

I never understood the backstabber criticism of Ed M - he was supposed to let his older brother take the job even if he thought he'd do a better job of it? And given, under the system they were fighting with, he beat David, he was right.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

another_richard

Foxy said:

another_richard said:

So what changed between 2014 and 2018 ?

Well in 2014 the Labour leader was of Jewish background and in 2018 the Labour party was widely regarded as anti-semitic (whether accurately or not is perhaps irrelevent).

Isn't it mostly accounted for by the swing back to Labour from Lutfer Rahman's "Tower Hamlets First Party"?

That might be right.

But what about in Newham and other boroughs ?

kle4

Omnium said:

Horrible, divisive header.

Not unusual. But divisive for a different reason this time!

But in its defence, it is presented without commentary and so is just numbers.

Sunil_Prasannan

kle4 said:

Omnium said:

Horrible, divisive header.

Not unusual. But divisive for a different reason this time!

But in its defence, it is presented without commentary and so is just numbers.

I still want to know why there aren't any Jedi, Hindu or Sikh wards mentioned!

TheScreamingEagles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

On 22 April last year - one month after the Westminster terror attack - Ali was caught on CCTV walking past the MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross, as well as Westminster Bridge, the Houses of Parliament and Whitehall.

Five days later, his mother called police and said she had found four knives in his bedroom.

Police swooped in to arrest him just metres from Downing Street later that day.

Ali had spent several years in Afghanistan, and when asked by British police whether he had returned to the UK for jihad, he replied: "Jihad is what we do. We are Mujahideen."

Ali had three blades tucked into his clothes when he was arrested by armed police

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon described Ali as an "incredibly dangerous individual".



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44613587

Sunil you have an unhealthy obsession with Muslims.

I assume it is to do with your Indian heritage and the caste system that denigrates people you don't think are worthy.

ydoethur

Sunil_Prasannan said:

kle4 said:

Omnium said:

Horrible, divisive header.

Not unusual. But divisive for a different reason this time!

But in its defence, it is presented without commentary and so is just numbers.

I still want to know why there aren't any Jedi, Hindu or Sikh wards mentioned!

Is it because The Last Jedi has finished and is hopefully never coming back?

LordOfReason

another_richard said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I wonder how much Ed Miliband being Jewish cost Labour in 2015.

Vote Labour!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4223091.stm

SquareRoot

How was the religion ascertained?.. how were the Jedi affected by anti Semitism?

kle4

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

AndyJS

What definition is being used to classify the wards?

TheScreamingEagles

kle4 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

That's how AV works, keep on eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a candidate with over 50%

Sean_F

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

williamglenn

Great article from John Harris on Labour's problems.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/25/where-is-jeremy-corbyn-rose-tinted-vision-labour-past

Sunil_Prasannan

SquareRoot said:

How was the religion ascertained?.. how were the Jedi affected by anti Semitism?

May the Schwarz be with you

Jonathan

What is a Christian/Jewish/Muslim ward?

another_richard

kle4 said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

I confess, I didn't know backstabber was an apparent anti-semitic trope, though I suppose given the 'sneaky' trope it makes sense.

I never understood the backstabber criticism of Ed M - he was supposed to let his older brother take the job even if he thought he'd do a better job of it? And given, under the system they were fighting with, he beat David, he was right.

I never understood the backstabber meme either re EdM as he certainly wasn't one.

But it does have associations with the 'stab in the back' propaganda used by the Nazis against, among others, Jews.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

That's how AV works, keep on eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a candidate with over 50%

AV referendum 2011:

Yes2AV = 68%
No2AV = 32%

LordOfReason

bigjohnowls said:

Good Night

Tomorrows weather forecast

SCORCHIO

Thursdays weather forecast

Scorchio!

bigjohnowls

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

That's how AV works, keep on eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a candidate with over 50%

Sounds interesting.

Can we have a Thread!!!!

TheWhiteRabbit

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

And 538 people elect the US president.

I am sure the rules can fit the policy if need be.

Cyclefree

LordOfReason said:

bigjohnowls said:

Good Night

Tomorrows weather forecast

SCORCHIO

Thursdays weather forecast

Scorchio!

It has been 35 degrees today and yesterday in Cumbria. Cumbria!

TheScreamingEagles

bigjohnowls said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

That's how AV works, keep on eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a candidate with over 50%

Sounds interesting.

Can we have a Thread!!!!

In August.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them, and kicked out a couple of people on discovering that they were Jewish. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

TheWhiteRabbit

I think Tower Hamlets is distorting the Muslim figures. The collapse (and split) of Tower Hamlets First is most of the 3.9% I would have thought.

kle4

williamglenn said:

Great article from John Harris on Labour's problems.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/25/where-is-jeremy-corbyn-rose-tinted-vision-labour-past

He presents an interesting picture in some ways. He undoubtedly inspires many people, he is capable of some rousing talk, and plenty of the ideas he likes do or will find support beyond even the Labour base (whether they may be good ideas is a separate question).

But he also seems to go invisible for long periods, with unclear messages on some big topics with the impression given of muddling through, being vague and avoiding internal confrontation (quite May like really). He'll bestir once again, his foibles forgotten as he becomes once more the man of the moment, but for all it can be lazy to decry top politicians as all terrible, he and May really do seem of a pair.

I do find the contention in the article that part of the problem is the Corbynites have no supportive thinktanks interesting. Too much campaigning and factional battling, albeit successfully, and not enough to thinking about the challenges.

another_richard

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

Well I'll consider myself enlightened - current anti-semitism is all about the prejudices of Bufton Tuftons in the 1960s.

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

I was shocked when an Old Etonian told me that not so long ago Eton pretty much barred Jews.

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

On 22 April last year - one month after the Westminster terror attack - Ali was caught on CCTV walking past the MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross, as well as Westminster Bridge, the Houses of Parliament and Whitehall.

Five days later, his mother called police and said she had found four knives in his bedroom.

Police swooped in to arrest him just metres from Downing Street later that day.

Ali had spent several years in Afghanistan, and when asked by British police whether he had returned to the UK for jihad, he replied: "Jihad is what we do. We are Mujahideen."

Ali had three blades tucked into his clothes when he was arrested by armed police

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon described Ali as an "incredibly dangerous individual".



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44613587

Sunil you have an unhealthy obsession with Muslims.

White supremacists aren't the only anti-semites....

Sunil_Prasannan

bigjohnowls said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

GarethoftheVale2 said:

On the Labour leadership proposals, it could make any contest very complicated as you could have 10 candidates!

The more the merrier - I assume they're keeping a run off if no one gets over 50%?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/TomBlenkinsop/status/1011722664854028289

Not, in itself, a major impediment - the rules of the party would just need to clarify that the group on the council will elect from its number the person the members have chosen.

As I recall with councils the procedure is a form must be handed to the proper officer signed by all the members who wish to group together, and they must list what their group is to be called, who is Leader, and who is deputy. So I would think it correct that only cllrs can technically chose the leader. If someone leaves the group they have to likewise sign a form, or have a majority of the group sign a form saying that that person is no longer to be counted amongst their number.

That's how AV works, keep on eliminating the lowest ranked candidate until we have a candidate with over 50%

Sounds interesting.

Can we have a Thread!!!!

TSE keeps confusing the Tory Exhaustive Ballot leadership system with AV.

TheScreamingEagles

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

Well I'll consider myself enlightened - current anti-semitism is all about the prejudices of Bufton Tuftons in the 1960s.

It is where Labour are picking up support because of the perceptions people have about anti-Semitism and Labour.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/ed_aarons/status/1011727539461640192

another_richard

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them, and kicked out a couple of people on discovering that they were Jewish. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

Likewise there was the 'Jewish Eton' where Philip Green (and lots of reputable people) went to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel_College,_Oxfordshire

kle4

And Nigeria thought they lost it at the death

Needing just three runs to win off the final two overs, at 186-3, High Wycombe were easing to victory and the last 16 of the National Club Championship.

But a spectacular collapse ensued - all out for 187, losing seven wickets in 11 balls to opponents Peterborough Town.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/44613032

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1011707929727258630

Casino_Royale

FPT - I’m not sure there’s any ex-Conservative who chills my blood more than Neil Hamilton.

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

I was shocked when an Old Etonian told me that not so long ago Eton pretty much barred Jews.

There were eight Jews there in 1940. So, that is an exaggeration. But, informally, several boarding schools sought to limit the number of Jewish pupils.

TheScreamingEagles

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

I was shocked when an Old Etonian told me that not so long ago Eton pretty much barred Jews.

There were eight Jews there in 1940. So, that is an exaggeration. But, informally, several boarding schools sought to limit the number of Jewish pupils.

I think the Eton rule was that your father had to be British at/by birth, which impacted Jewish applicants.

another_richard

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

Well I'll consider myself enlightened - current anti-semitism is all about the prejudices of Bufton Tuftons in the 1960s.

It is where Labour are picking up support because of the perceptions people have about anti-Semitism and Labour.

Perhaps we should compare where Labour made net gains in 2018 and where Labour made net losses in 2018.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1011729325777924096

LordOfReason

SquareRoot said:

How was the religion ascertained?.. how were the Jedi affected by anti Semitism?

Vote Lucas!

http://www.weirdworm.com/the-five-most-racist-star-wars-characters/

Foxy

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

Anglicans would surely argue that sheep need shepherds!

As a Non-Conformist, I am more sceptical about ordained ministry over lay ministry.

Sean_F

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

60% of Anglicans voted Conservative in 2017. I doubt if that is true of the clergy.

kle4

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1011707929727258630

He's been better at PMQs, so he should definitely do that. And he shouldn't censor himself when saying it either. Bercow will adore the opportunity to linger on the moment and preen himself.

Now now, order, now, I must ask the right honourable gentleman, order, who we all know to be an experienced and, order, valued member of this house, order, to refrain from such, order, unparliamentary language, order. I must, order, ask that, order, that he consider, order, instead asking if the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs, order, did in fact suggest the policy was to Eff business. Order

Sean_F

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1011729325777924096

I think most people are just sick of him, now.

another_richard

Here's something I'd not noticed before - the new ward boundaries have allowed some Conservatives to get elected in south-east Birmingham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council_election,_2018#/media/File:Birmingham_Election_Ward_2018.svg

ExiledInScotland

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them, and kicked out a couple of people on discovering that they were Jewish. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

My late father-in-law had a similar experience. He was asked to join a golf club in Glasgow in the 1960's. On hearing informally that they did not accept Jewish members, he filled in his application form with the surname Goldberg. His explanation was that, if they were stupid enough to reject him due to a mistake on his form, then he wouldn't want to be a member. He never heard back from the club.

LordOfReason

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I was shocked when an Old Etonian told me that not so long ago Eton pretty much barred Jews.

There were eight Jews there in 1940. So, that is an exaggeration. But, informally, several boarding schools sought to limit the number of Jewish pupils.

Vote Howard!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/howards-son-tries-to-convert-oxford-jews-1145419.html

williamglenn

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1011707929727258630

He's been better at PMQs, so he should definitely do that. And he shouldn't censor himself when saying it either. Bercow will adore the opportunity to linger on the moment and preen himself.

Now now, order, now, I must ask the right honourable gentleman, order, who we all know to be an experienced and, order, valued member of this house, order, to refrain from such, order, unparliamentary language, order. I must, order, ask that, order, that he consider, order, instead asking if the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs, order, did in fact suggest the policy was to Eff business. Order

All the more so because the clip of him saying "F*** Business" can be edited so that he appropriates the slogan for his fans who agree with the sentiment but can't be used as an attack against him because he's just quoting Boris Johnson.

AndyJS

another_richard said:

Here's something I'd not noticed before - the new ward boundaries have allowed some Conservatives to get elected in south-east Birmingham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_Council_election,_2018#/media/File:Birmingham_Election_Ward_2018.svg

That's right, the smaller wards were always going to help parties other than the dominant one in Birmingham to get a few more councillors elected, including the Greens and the LDs as well as the Tories.

kle4

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1011729325777924096

I think most people are just sick of him, now.

He still retains appeal to some, clearly, and he's been written off before, but I genuinely think he has been on the scene too long, and his schtick is not as likely to find favour with the public as some think it will, as indeed maybe it would have some while ago.

Now, maybe I have just been taken in by all the negative leaking against him, but the impression I get is he is at times competent at best, but generally is only concerned with his own position, shows no recognition of shared responsibility (even back when the Cabinet was showing more discipline than now) and relies on boorish charm to get past all his blunders.

That he (and Davis) seem to be constantly leaking about quitting (or at least how they are not happy, and that the PM must not do X or Y) then not doing so is just frustrating as well.

AndyJS

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

kle4

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1011707929727258630

He's been better at PMQs, so he should definitely do that. And he shouldn't censor himself when saying it either. Bercow will adore the opportunity to linger on the moment and preen himself.

Now now, order, now, I must ask the right honourable gentleman, order, who we all know to be an experienced and, order, valued member of this house, order, to refrain from such, order, unparliamentary language, order. I must, order, ask that, order, that he consider, order, instead asking if the secretary of state for foreign and commonwealth affairs, order, did in fact suggest the policy was to Eff business. Order

All the more so because the clip of him saying "F*** Business" can be edited so that he appropriates the slogan for his fans who agree with the sentiment but can't be used as an attack against him because he's just quoting Boris Johnson.

Works on two levels then, perfect for him,

He'd have some way to beat the most blatant use of unparliamentary language anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugailEn8U5o

TheScreamingEagles

I thought the biggest gap between Anglican congregations and the Anglican Ministry was that the former believed in God whilst the latter doesn't.

another_richard

Sean_F said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

60% of Anglicans voted Conservative in 2017. I doubt if that is true of the clergy.

There was a UKIP Nottinghamshire county councillor in 2009 who was a Reverend:

http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/dms/Councillors/tabid/63/ctl/ViewCMIS_Person/mid/383/id/48/Default.aspx

I assumed he was the Vicar of Hucknall.

williamglenn

Sean_F said:

I think most people are just sick of him, now.

I have a suspicion he's been acting as May's human shield all this time and his posturing about Brexit has been purely designed to act as a lightning rod for any potential backbench rebellion. I think he knows perfectly well that Brexit is a lost cause and is playing his role in salvaging something from the mess.

another_richard

TheScreamingEagles said:

I thought the biggest gap between Anglican congregations and the Anglican Ministry was that the former believed in God whilst the latter doesn't.

I thought the congregation did it for social reasons and the ministry for financial reasons.

kle4

williamglenn said:

Sean_F said:

I think most people are just sick of him, now.

I have a suspicion he's been acting as May's human shield all this time and his posturing about Brexit has been purely designed to act as a lightning rod for any potential backbench rebellion. I think he knows perfectly well that Brexit is a lost cause and is playing his role in salvaging something from the mess.

The biggest flaw in that theory is that his ego would allow him to play the human shield for someone else. If that is what is happening, it is surely unintentional.

HYUFD

Very interesting tables. I think we can now say the Jewish vote is solidly Tory, the Muslim vote is solidly Labour. The Christian vote leans Tory but only because of Anglicans and evangelicals, Catholics are more likely to be Labour and the Sikh, Hindu and Buddhist and atheist vote is slightly more Labour than average but still less Labour than the Muslim vote.

Foxy

AndyJS said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

I think that is true of more traditional Anglicans, the Evangelical ministers often have thriving and younger congregations.

Holy Trinity in Leicester averages 670. If you read how they do this, week in, week out, read the bit here. It will either sound great, or appalling depending on what you thought of the Minister at the Sussex's recent wedding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Leicester

I have never enquired about politics there, but it is certainly not wishy washy liberalism.

HYUFD

Sean_F said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

60% of Anglicans voted Conservative in 2017. I doubt if that is true of the clergy.

The average Anglican clergyman is moderate Labour or LD, whereas in the past being a vicar was amongst the highest status roles in a town or village (see Poldark) and vicars tended to be High Tory it is now basically a role similar to being a social worker with God attached.

Charles

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sean_F said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Cyclefree said:

Didn’t the sainted TSE recently write a thread header suggesting that Labour’s perceived anti-semitism (whether accurate or not) might electorally benefit it in certain places?

Edited: Whatever the case the fact that we might now need to take account of religious voting patterns is not an improvement.

I did.

I said Labour was picking up the support of noted anti-Semites like Nick Griffin.

With a small section of Leavers repeating anti-Semitic tropes towards George Soros, there's a nasty edge from the referendum.

After all one wonders why Leave focussed on Turkey and not say Poles moving to the UK.

Poking the hornets' nest releases far too many angry hornets.

Anti-semitic tropes like 'backstabber' ?

Now who used that against Ed Miliband ?

Lets stop pretending here you know full well in which demographic anti-Semitic tropes get a reception.

The clubs and members therein Mrs Thatcher protested against in her constituency that barred Jews?

It was worse. The local golf club had no formal bar on Jews. it just didn't allow them. Though, I've also been told that at the time, there were a couple of Jewish dominated golf clubs that excluded gentiles.

I was shocked when an Old Etonian told me that not so long ago Eton pretty much barred Jews.

Not for a hundred yearswhen society as a whole had very different views

Moreover Eton is an organic community - children of OEs get extra points on their entry system so inevitably there is a bias to the status quo

AndyJS

Foxy said:

AndyJS said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

I think that is true of more traditional Anglicans, the Evangelical ministers often have thriving and younger congregations.

Holy Trinity in Leicester averages 670. If you read how they do this, week in, week out, read the bit here. It will either sound great, or appalling depending on what you thought of the Minister at the Sussex's recent wedding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Leicester

I have never enquired about politics there, but it is certainly not wishy washy liberalism.

I'm guessing that congregation is fairly multicultural. In most white areas the Anglican church is in serious trouble.

GIN1138

Theresa's Tax Bombshell on Newsnight tonight...

HYUFD

AndyJS said:

Foxy said:

AndyJS said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

I think that is true of more traditional Anglicans, the Evangelical ministers often have thriving and younger congregations.

Holy Trinity in Leicester averages 670. If you read how they do this, week in, week out, read the bit here. It will either sound great, or appalling depending on what you thought of the Minister at the Sussex's recent wedding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Leicester

I have never enquired about politics there, but it is certainly not wishy washy liberalism.

I'm guessing that congregation is fairly multicultural. In most white areas the Anglican church is in serious trouble.

Attendance at Anglican cathedrals though has been on the rise

https://www.premier.org.uk/News/UK/Cathedral-attendance-continues-to-increase

Foxy

AndyJS said:

Foxy said:

AndyJS said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

I think that is true of more traditional Anglicans, the Evangelical ministers often have thriving and younger congregations.

Holy Trinity in Leicester averages 670. If you read how they do this, week in, week out, read the bit here. It will either sound great, or appalling depending on what you thought of the Minister at the Sussex's recent wedding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Leicester

I have never enquired about politics there, but it is certainly not wishy washy liberalism.

I'm guessing that congregation is fairly multicultural. In most white areas the Anglican church is in serious trouble.

No, it is mostly white. Young and studenty, and with all races present.

Mostly Holy Trinity is unashamedly Christian and Evangelical. I have been to a number of social events there. The services are availible as podcasts should you fancy a bit.

This is a recent one on a Christian approach to mental health:

https://m.soundcloud.com/holytrinityleicester/mental-healthmp3

HYUFD

In terms of the high 'other' vote amongst Christians, remember the 'Christian Peoples' Alliance' has had councillors in Newham before and stood candidates in the local elections.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/ed_aarons/status/1011727539461640192

He looked in fine health to me, indeed his dance with the lucky lady was surely the world cups' #metoo moment.

another_richard

HYUFD said:

In terms of the high 'other' vote amongst Christians, remember the 'Christian Peoples' Alliance' has had councillors in Newham before and stood candidates in the local elections.

I think its because of the high Residents votes in Havering.

HYUFD

another_richard said:

HYUFD said:

In terms of the high 'other' vote amongst Christians, remember the 'Christian Peoples' Alliance' has had councillors in Newham before and stood candidates in the local elections.

I think its because of the high Residents votes in Havering.

Perhaps that too if they were not included under 'Independents'

williamglenn

Oops.

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1011741921348341760?s=21

Recidivist

So more data to back up that the Tories are now the anti business party. Investment collapsing. https://mobile.twitter.com/peter_tl/status/1011531361264513024

kle4

williamglenn said:

Oops.

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1011741921348341760?s=21

Haha. That just makes it worse, what a silly thing to be doing. Now she's gutless.

Not quite the same thing but I recall a Nick CLegg speech where he was talking about how effective the LD Cabinet members were, saying they were five, or six if you included Ken Clarke. Clearly a prepared line, but for some reason his office did not include it in the text of the speech when it was uploaded.

another_richard

Recidivist said:

So more data to back up that the Tories are now the anti business party. Investment collapsing. https://mobile.twitter.com/peter_tl/status/1011531361264513024

Or not:

another_richard said:

This is the actual ONS data for business investment, at current prices, in the 'engineering and vehicles' manufacturing sector:

1997 £9.247bn
1998 £9.165bn
1999 £8.763bn
2000 £8.730bn
2001 £7.797bn
2002 £6.809bn
2003 £6.139bn
2004 £5.989bn
2005 £6.678bn
2006 £6.728bn
2007 £6.927bn
2008 £7.836bn
2009 £6.902bn
2010 £6.838bn
2011 £7.854bn
2012 £8.729bn
2013 £8.630bn
2014 £10.286bn
2015 £10.540bn
2016 £9.946bn
2017 £11.225bn

From page 4 of the spreadsheet on this link:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/datasets/businessinvestmentbyindustryandasset

For 2018Q1 it is £2.722bn, which is the highest Q1 figure on record.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on some actual data instead of upon a tweet.

rcs1000

Foxy said:

AndyJS said:

Foxy said:

AndyJS said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

Philip_Thompson said:

There are more Tory votes in Jewish wards or Labour votes in Muslim wards than Labour and Tory votes combined in Christian wards.

How are there so few Christian wards? Or so many Jewish/Muslim ones? What's the definition?

EDIT: Counting the wards I'm guessing its the 'top 30' of each religion which is not the same thing.

Yes, that seems likely. But, the sample size for Christian wards is surely far too small to be meaningful.

And, you'd have to break the Christian wards down by denomination to draw proper conclusions.

Anglicans are strongly Conservative, non-conformists slightly less so. Catholics break evenly between Conservative and Labour, but groups like Pentecostalists, and African-based evangelical churches, break heavily for Labour.

There must be a massive political gap between Anglican congregations, and the Anglican ministry.

I'm sure there is. Anglicans tend to be Conservative voters but it's no secret that the Anglican clergy are very left-wing and have been for many decades. Perhaps that explains why Anglican congregations are in terminal decline with many churches having just a handful of elderly worshippers.

I think that is true of more traditional Anglicans, the Evangelical ministers often have thriving and younger congregations.

Holy Trinity in Leicester averages 670. If you read how they do this, week in, week out, read the bit here. It will either sound great, or appalling depending on what you thought of the Minister at the Sussex's recent wedding.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Trinity_Church,_Leicester

I have never enquired about politics there, but it is certainly not wishy washy liberalism.

I'm guessing that congregation is fairly multicultural. In most white areas the Anglican church is in serious trouble.

No, it is mostly white. Young and studenty, and with all races present.

Mostly Holy Trinity is unashamedly Christian and Evangelical. I have been to a number of social events there. The services are availible as podcasts should you fancy a bit.

This is a recent one on a Christian approach to mental health:

https://m.soundcloud.com/holytrinityleicester/mental-healthmp3

"all races" my arse. I looked at the photos and didn't see a single Polynesian or Inuit

dixiedean

So, to summarise. We do not know what constitutes a Christian, Muslim or Jewish ward then.

dixiedean

And FPT: What is it about being a small state, classical liberal and free speech activist that calls for journalists to be shot by vigilantes?
Not one of Gladstone's priorities
Serious lack of the usual PB intellectual rigour on here tonight.
All very depressing