Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not command close to a majority of the electorate’s votes. I know you dig in rather than admit you’re wrong, but you’re making yourself look a tad foolish here :-D
In Protestant Ulster the DUP did get a majority of votes actually once you exclude the Catholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
After No 10 slapping down Hague, it sounds like Javid doesn't really much care what No 10 thinks. It should be obvious that there's a real chance that the review might make recommendations that have implications well beyond prescribed medical use.
It does seem as if he is departing considerably from his predecessors at the Home Office, and is carving out a post Brexit policy platform rather than getting bogged down in the quicksand of Brexit policy.
Labour will almost certainly go into the GE with legalisation of cannabis in their manifesto which will be a young voter turnout machine. The tories might as well own the inevitable and deny Corbyn the considerable advantage.
The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.
I think they will go for the US style for "medical" usage i.e. anybody complains on any sort of pain etc they can get an exemption.
If it is to be allowed "for medical purposes" then it needs to pass the regulatory hurdles in terms of well designed trials, and licensed indications, with producers responsible for side effects.
That will take years. I have Crohn’s Disease and there’s some evidence of a clinical benefit of high CBD low THC Cannabis. I can’t wait years, I need to try it now.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg is more likely in the short term but Ulster Protestants will maintain their independence regardless of who is in No 10 and refuse to join the Republic
Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, working from expensive secure compounds guarded by armed police/security backed up by a system of checkpoints, road controls and armed force.
we are not talking about a forested track inwho recognises a big peace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force clare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
It isnt UDI in that circumstance, it is a colony.
It’s also going against a majority vote for reunification. Were the British government to do that we would become an international pariah. What’s more, it is highly unlikely the British electorate would tolerate it.
An international pariah in the age of Presidents Trump and Putin and Deputy PM Salvini and nationalism sweeping much of the West? No
After No 10 slapping down Hague, it sounds like Javid doesn't really much care what No 10 thinks. It should be obvious that there's a real chance that the review might make recommendations that have implications well beyond prescribed medical use.
It does seem as if he is departing considerably from his predecessors at the Home Office, and is carving out a post Brexit policy platform rather than getting bogged down in the quicksand of Brexit policy.
Labour will almost certainly go into the GE with legalisation of cannabis in their manifesto which will be a young voter turnout machine. The tories might as well own the inevitable and deny Corbyn the considerable advantage.
The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.
I think they will go for the US style for "medical" usage i.e. anybody complains on any sort of pain etc they can get an exemption.
If it is to be allowed "for medical purposes" then it needs to pass the regulatory hurdles in terms of well designed trials, and licensed indications, with producers responsible for side effects.
This is my problem at the moment. We are having a number of these sob stories on, with nice mummies on saying that it helps their kid against x or y, but as the BBC reported yesterday there is no concrete medical evidence that these work (and certainly not in the form they are using them).
Part of that is due to licensing of trails etc e.g. in the US, it is incredibly difficult to do any research as Cannabis in all forms is still illegal at federal level.
Sensible thing would be to crack on and do proper trails / testing.
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?
But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
The only danger is if they go full legalization it will scare all those nice middle class yummy mummies and alike, who worry about their kids doing drugs i.e. the kind of folk who turn out for Jezfest.
They aren't going to switch their vote for the Conservative and Upskirt Party over it though are they? A manifesto commitment to legalisation has no negatives for Labour.
Could probably earn the Chancellor a few billion quid in taxes and reduced policing/justice costs too.
Labour need a few tax rises that are broadly popular, and this new source of revenue could be one of them. Changing pension relief for high earner is another no brainer to raise money and distinguish themselves from the Tories.
Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not command close to a majority of the electorate’s votes. I know you dig in rather than admit you’re wrong, but you’re making yourself look a tad foolish here :-D
In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
There can be no reunification without protestant votes in favour. Your assumption that all those voting against are not democrats is an interesting one, as is your belief that a protestant minority has the financial means to sustain an illegal statelet in isolation from the rest of the world. Still, if you want to believe all this, so be it and God bless you!!
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?
But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
Such elements in the British Army were a significant part of the reason a United Ireland didn't get a parliament in 1913. The Curragh mutineers should have been dismissed the service.
Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who paysething.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?
But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
So a coup backed by the British Army. Of course, why didn’t I think of that??!!
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a comfortable majority in the Protestant counties will almost certainly vote to stay in the UK
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
There can be no reunification without protestant votes in favour. Your assumption that all those voting against are not democrats is an interesting one, as is your belief that a protestant minority has the financial means to sustain an illegal statelet in isolation from the rest of the world. Still, if you want to believe all this, so be it and God bless you!!
About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. Bwill.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many here.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes to get to a majority in favour. In East Belfast there may well be some trouble. Other protestants will come to the mainland. It’ll be a good way to boost Scotland’s population and will increase the unionist majority there.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
But if Scotland can't stay in the EU, why should the Protestant counties be 'allowed' to stay out of the RoI?
Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
I think Soubry is increasingly seeing her herself as some kind of reverse Boudicca destined to be in the history books saving the UK from itself.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
A majority in NI voted to stay in the EU but they are going to have withdrawal imposed anyway. The same would happen to opponents of unification if a majority voted for it.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
There bless you!!
About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today
There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. Bwill.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many here.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)
The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people who live in Perthshire, or Peterbrough or Primrose Hill don't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many protestant voters will accept reunification and stay - after all it will require proddy votes
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
But if Scotland can't stay in the EU, why should the Protestant counties be 'allowed' to stay out of the RoI?
As Scotland voted in 2014 to stay in the UK and in 2017 63% of Scots voted for Unionist parties despite Brexit
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
A majority in NI voted to stay in the EU but they are going to have withdrawal imposed anyway. The same would happen to opponents of unification if a majority voted for it.
No as most in NI put staying in the UK first currently
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already xecutive and with a DUP First Minister
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
There bless you!!
About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today
There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.
Don't forget the UDI state would have the reformed loyalist paramilitaries if needed too
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. Bwill.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many here.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)
The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
The IRA and UVF would be back, surely nobody wants that?
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. Bwill.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many here.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will ks for the entertainment ;-)
The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
The IRA and UVF would be back, surely nobody wants that?
Well if Barnier wants to poke a stick in the hornets nest of Northern Ireland and force a hard border or BINO choice so be it
Looking how quickly this discussion of marijuana laws has come from nowhere, I think it is likely now only a short wait till it is legal here int he UK.
Maybe medical first then full legalization, possibly with a period of decriminalization before that.
ones people see that legal marijuana does not mean that the sky falls in, opinion changes quickly, I see that even in the US state of Texas, 80% of republicans are now for decriminalization.
Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.
Got to meet the family?
Travelling down the middle of the course at Ascot I mean I know she's a glamorous Hollywood actress but this must be mind-blowing for her, and it shows.
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is vidend is in danger
Yep. Bwill.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not declare UDI
Of course UDI, if recognised by the UK and EU27, also solves the border issue as far as the UK goes.
Of course, a future PM Rees Mogg or Boris would be delighted to support and prop up a UDI state in Ulster
But a future pm Corbyn might take a different view. Or any other future Labour PM I think.
Corbyn still trails in the polls and is in opposition at the moment PM Boris or Mogg
Many here.
It was Ulster Protestants refusal to join the Irish Free State that led to the creation of Northern Ireland in the first place.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a confortabke majority in the Protestant counties will almost certaijly vote to stay in the UK
And they will be the minority overall. If you believe that they will then launch a coup d'etat with the help of the British army and build an illegal, isolated mini-state that is unable to support itself I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the entertainment ;-)
The DUP, comfortably the largest Protestant Party, will certainly build their own state in Protestant Ulster and it would be no more illegal thsn any other state where a majority of people within it support its existence
There’s digging down and there’s digging down. This is epic!!!
Trouble is, the border is what I would describe as "contested", ie a significant proportion of those living on either side or straddle it would not accept it.
Whilst the suburbs and shires in England may feel that a few cameras is a small price to pay, the real cost is hundreds of publicly paid staff, eace dividend is in danger
Yep. But tbf people whodon't understand and probably never will.
They find it hard to imagine that this represented a typical bobby about to set off on his beat in NI.
Long term (And probably long he best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Prot Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland hasin the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the pol, theand that is saying something.
What an absurd question. Theer
God bless you!! They were the largest party, not the only one, and did not comm
In Protestant Ulster the DUPatholic border areas
That, of course, is not the same thing.
It is when it is Protestant Ulster that would declare UDI not the Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
There bless you!!
About 90% of DUP and UUP voters want to stay in the UK even in Ashcroft's poll today
There is a huge leap from there to them becoming anti-democrats prepared to enlist the British army to institute a coup d'etat to create an illegal state that would not be part of the UK.
Don't forget the UDI state would have the reformed loyalist paramilitaries if needed too
Perhaps Pauline Hanson could launch a coup in Queensland and declare UDI to give them some international backing?
Good for Anna. I hope the police go after those who threaten death with the full force of the law and hang them out to dry. I'm glad it is making Anna more resolute. I hope it is with the others too.
I think we should all be able to agree that death threats are despicable and those issuing them should go to jail.
Long term (And probably long past when we're all dead) unification of Ireland is probably the best solution. But not in my lifetime I suspect.
The DUP would likely declare UDI of all the Protestant areas of the interior of Northern Ireland rather than join the Republic, so reunification would only be in prospect for the Sinn Fein voting Catholic areas on the Northern Irish border with the Republic
How would a UDI work in practice, do you think?
Not that difficult, Northern Ireland has its own police force and legislature and runs most domestic policy. Smith's Rhodesia did it for years and they were a white minority unlike the Protestant majority in the counties which would declare UDI
Who pays for the police force, who pays the judges, the teachers, the doctors, the nurses, and so on? The white minority had full control of all Rhodesian infrastructure. The unionist minority who chose UDI would have no such control in NI. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous assertion I have ever read on here - and that is saying something.
What an absurd question. The DUP already were the largest party in NI pre suspension in charge of NI's infrastructure, domestic policy and executive and with a DUP First Minister
Riiiight. And who has control of it now? Or of the army, which in the final analysis is critical?
But before you get there, how would a UDI government pay for anything? Where would its money come from? Who would collect it? How?
The British Army has long had some sympathy with ultra loyalists in Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
Let's ignore your comment on the army, not because you're right but because it's not provable, and just concentrate on the taxes.
Sure, *in time* a UDI state could raise taxes. Obviously, it couldn't easily raise as much as is spent by the state there now because of the huge subsidies from London, as well as due to the disruption to the economy, but it could raise some.
But in the shorter term - certainly months, probably years - how does it do that in practice, without access to the computer systems, other hard infrastructure and personnel that currently run tax collection? And without money, how does it pay its staff?
HYUFD completely out on a limb today. Looked at the electoral map of Northern Ireland and said why not carve off a few of the Green counties. The Catholic and Protestant populations are nowhere near as clear cut as that map would lead you believe - and what about Belfast. I lived in a small town miles from the border and had Catholic and Protestant friends, who would be amazed to hear such simplistic assertions.
Meanwhile, on to more important matters, poor old Meghan Markle looks shell shocked. You've got to feel for her.
Got to meet the family?
Travelling down the middle of the course at Ascot I mean I know she's a glamorous Hollywood actress but this must be mind-blowing for her, and it shows.
A coup d'etat in Northern Ireland launched by anti-democratic protestants with the help of the British army to create an illegal state that would not have the means to support itself - and all the fault of Michel Barnier. Wonderful stuff ;-D
HYUFD completely out on a limb today. Looked at the electoral map of Northern Ireland and said why not carve off a few of the Green counties. The Catholic and Protestant populations are nowhere near as clear cut as that map would lead you believe - and what about Belfast. I lived in a small town miles from the border and had Catholic and Protestant friends, who would be amazed to hear such simplistic assertions.
By HYUFD's logic all of Scotland voted Remain and must be part of the EU.
"The relationship between cannabis use and risk of developing symptoms of psychosis has been well established in many different review articles.
This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes. These interactions make it difficult to determine the exact role of cannabis use in causing psychosis that may not have otherwise occurred."
Mr. JS, I remember reading about that at university.
A problem when considering courses of action is that current benefits can be underestimated, and future positives can be exaggerated (even unknowingly, because predicting outcomes is complicated). It's the flip side of the ephemeral support for change because it's purely theoretical versus entrenched opposition from those who benefit from/support the status quo.
"The relationship between cannabis use and risk of developing symptoms of psychosis has been well established in many different review articles.
This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes. These interactions make it difficult to determine the exact role of cannabis use in causing psychosis that may not have otherwise occurred."
Mr. Alistair, just checked and cannabis can cause paranoia, addiction, and contribute to respiratory disease [Biological Psychology: An Introduction to Behavioral[sp] and Cognitive Neuroscience, by Rosenzweig et al].
Mr. Alistair, just checked and cannabis can cause paranoia, addiction, and contribute to respiratory disease [Biological Psychology: An Introduction to Behavioral[sp] and Cognitive Neuroscience, by Rosenzweig et al].
Similar in some respects to alcohol and tobacco then?
I do not know the method of drawing up an indictment against a whole people, and anyway are we all comfortable with questions of the form "Plus what has [ethnic group x] brought to the [UK] apart from bigotry, terrorism, bombs, death, and the regeneration of Manchester?" Just change that to degeneration and stick it in the comments on Guido. They'll love it.
A coup d'etat in Northern Ireland launched by anti-democratic protestants with the help of the British army to create an illegal state that would not have the means to support itself - and all the fault of Michel Barnier. Wonderful stuff ;-D
There is a wider point that does arise here , and which particularly occurred to me in the context of the Independence Referendum in Scotland in 2014. If we accept that Scotland has the right to become Independent of the UK then why would it be unreasonable for some parts of Scotland to seek Independence from Scotland? That point has been made in the past re-the Orkneys & Shetlands but it could have wider application to - say - the border areas such as Dumfries - Berwickshire etc. Similarly were Wales to vote for Independence, there might well be areas which would prefer to be no longer part of Wales - I think of Monmouthshire - Pembrokeshire - Flintshire etc.
Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.
However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?
Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand? Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs. Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply. Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.
However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?
Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand? Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs. Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply. Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
Paracetamol can kill you with a not-so-significantly high dose.
Mr. Song, indeed, tobacco is specifically cited alongside the respiratory aspect.
However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?
Yes, but is it likely to be criminalised as things stand? Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs. Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply. Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
It's an interesting chain of events. Attitudes towards Tobacco and Alcohol are hardening on public health grounds, yet at the same time attitudes towards drugs currently illegal are softening.
Comments
Part of that is due to licensing of trails etc e.g. in the US, it is incredibly difficult to do any research as Cannabis in all forms is still illegal at federal level.
Sensible thing would be to crack on and do proper trails / testing.
Northern Ireland could raise taxes from its population as now
Labour need a few tax rises that are broadly popular, and this new source of revenue could be one of them. Changing pension relief for high earner is another no brainer to raise money and distinguish themselves from the Tories.
The Curragh mutineers should have been dismissed the service.
Even if some Protestants do vote for reunification a comfortable majority in the Protestant counties will almost certainly vote to stay in the UK
Maybe medical first then full legalization, possibly with a period of decriminalization before that.
ones people see that legal marijuana does not mean that the sky falls in, opinion changes quickly, I see that even in the US state of Texas, 80% of republicans are now for decriminalization.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/18/texas-gop-endorses-marijuana-decriminali
Sure, *in time* a UDI state could raise taxes. Obviously, it couldn't easily raise as much as is spent by the state there now because of the huge subsidies from London, as well as due to the disruption to the economy, but it could raise some.
But in the shorter term - certainly months, probably years - how does it do that in practice, without access to the computer systems, other hard infrastructure and personnel that currently run tax collection? And without money, how does it pay its staff?
Looked at the electoral map of Northern Ireland and said why not carve off a few of the Green counties.
The Catholic and Protestant populations are nowhere near as clear cut as that map would lead you believe - and what about Belfast.
I lived in a small town miles from the border and had Catholic and Protestant friends, who would be amazed to hear such simplistic assertions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5860911/Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-join-Queen-Royal-Ascot.html
"The relationship between cannabis use and risk of developing symptoms of psychosis has been well established in many different review articles.
This research has found that early and frequent cannabis use is a component cause of psychosis, which interacts with other risk factors such as family history of psychosis, history of childhood abuse and expression of the COMT and AKT1 genes. These interactions make it difficult to determine the exact role of cannabis use in causing psychosis that may not have otherwise occurred."
https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/does-cannabis-cause-mental-illness
Just 7% of construction workers in the UK are from the EU
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5860435/ONS-7-construction-workers-UK-EU.html
A problem when considering courses of action is that current benefits can be underestimated, and future positives can be exaggerated (even unknowingly, because predicting outcomes is complicated). It's the flip side of the ephemeral support for change because it's purely theoretical versus entrenched opposition from those who benefit from/support the status quo.
However, if we discovered tobacco today, would it not be criminalised as an addictive and harmful substance?
Brooke,Alexander and Monty with Ulster ancestry plus one of our best ww2 admirals in Cunningham (Irish )
They were civilised.
If we accept that Scotland has the right to become Independent of the UK then why would it be unreasonable for some parts of Scotland to seek Independence from Scotland? That point has been made in the past re-the Orkneys & Shetlands but it could have wider application to - say - the border areas such as Dumfries - Berwickshire etc.
Similarly were Wales to vote for Independence, there might well be areas which would prefer to be no longer part of Wales - I think of Monmouthshire - Pembrokeshire - Flintshire etc.
Almost certainly not, because it is in such wide use and would make criminals of many people and make openings for criminal gangs.
Now, ask yourself whether marijuana is in wide use now and whether those same arguments apply.
Of course, health campaigns should be run for all harmful substances, such as alcohol, tobacco, prescription opoids and indeed marijuana.
Blasted sciatica.
NEW THREAD
Every substance can cause problems if abused.
At some point, they have to meet in the middle.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311234/