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  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    How are employers remotely responsible for how many children an employee has?

    Or the fact that an employee will only work 16 hours so they can maximise their benefits?
    Is the taxpayer? The same argument - if it has any validity - should apply in both cases.

    And tax credits are not only paid to those with children. Working Tax credits are paid to anyone over 25 with or without kids who is in employment and who has an income below a certain level.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    That’s a nice tip. Might take a trip in the autumn. £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    That’s a nice tip. Might take a trip in the autumn. £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
    I agree. Just avoid the festival. That’s when these places make their profit for the year.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
    If you are lucky....
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,112
    edited June 2018
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    One could increase the minimum wage whilst at the same time proportionally reducing Tax credits. It would have to be done very slowly because otherwise there are bound to be all sorts of horrible anomalies that need to be worked through the system but the basic principle that the employer should not be subsidised by the state into paying lower wages seems a sound one to me.
    How is the employer subsidised?

    Tax credits are maximised by people who have lots of children and refuse to work more than 16 hours - how does the employer benefit from that?
    Wrong. As I already explained working tax credits are paid to anyone working a minimum number of hours and getting paid less than a certain income.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    How are employers remotely responsible for how many children an employee has?

    Or the fact that an employee will only work 16 hours so they can maximise their benefits?
    Is the taxpayer? The same argument - if it has any validity - should apply in both cases.

    And tax credits are not only paid to those with children. Working Tax credits are paid to anyone over 25 with or without kids who is in employment and who has an income below a certain level.
    Yes the taxpayer is responsible, because the government that represents the taxpayer sets the rules and the beneficiaries (the people who receive the money, not the employers) play the system to maximise their benefits.

    Again Working Tax Credits are payable (I believe) to those working only 16 hours. How is an employer responsible for the taxpayer via its elected government choosing to subsidise people who want to only work part time?
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:


    In my view health and the snip

    It also challenges us on a cultural level. Most people, snip one that's going to be easy to
    How sad it would be if young people gave up enjoying themselves and focused on providing nursing care for themselves in their 80s and 90s! What a dull and dismal life.

    They should have an exit strategy (high speed powerboat racing is a good one, or a heavy morphine habit) but they don't need to think about that until much later.
    The government could give people the choice: either put money aside for social care in your 80s and 90s

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    One could increase the minimum wage whilst at the same time proportionally reducing Tax credits. It would have to be done very slowly because otherwise there are bound to be all sorts of horrible anomalies that need to be worked through the system but the basic principle that the employer should not be subsidised by the state into paying lower wages seems a sound one to me.
    How is the employer subsidised?

    Tax credits are maximised by people who have lots of children and refuse to work more than 16 hours - how does the employer benefit from that?
    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,944
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
    I remember being irked that the big hotel on George Square (think the name has changed recently) had overbooked, and so had to take another taxi to the replacement. When I arrived at the newly opened Missoni I stoppedbeing irked.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    One could increase the minimum wage whilst at the same time proportionally reducing Tax credits. It would have to be done very slowly because otherwise there are bound to be all sorts of horrible anomalies that need to be worked through the system but the basic principle that the employer should not be subsidised by the state into paying lower wages seems a sound one to me.
    How is the employer subsidised?

    Tax credits are maximised by people who have lots of children and refuse to work more than 16 hours - how does the employer benefit from that?
    Wrong. As I already explained working tax credits are paid to anyone working a minimum number of hours and getting paid less than a certain income.
    That minimum number of hours being I believe 16. Do you think people who refuse to work full time are the employers responsibility? The employer is paying for all work done, the employee isn't working full time - and the taxpayer via the government has opted to choose to subsidise part time work. It was deliberate policy to make work more "family friendly" so don't blame the employer when the taxpayers government chose to do it.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    How are employers remotely responsible for how many children an employee has?

    Or the fact that an employee will only work 16 hours so they can maximise their benefits?
    Is the taxpayer? The same argument - if it has any validity - should apply in both cases.

    And tax credits are not only paid to those with children. Working Tax credits are paid to anyone over 25 with or without kids who is in employment and who has an income below a certain level.
    Yes the taxpayer is responsible, because the government that represents the taxpayer sets the rules and the beneficiaries (the people who receive the money, not the employers) play the system to maximise their benefits.

    Again Working Tax Credits are payable (I believe) to those working only 16 hours. How is an employer responsible for the taxpayer via its elected government choosing to subsidise people who want to only work part time?
    Not true. If you are over 25 and have no kids you must work at least 30 hours a week to qualify for WTC.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,944
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
    Oh thanks, that is really good to know. I find Edinburgh a tricky place for really top notch food.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2018

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    How are employers remotely responsible for how many children an employee has?

    Or the fact that an employee will only work 16 hours so they can maximise their benefits?
    Is the taxpayer? The same argument - if it has any validity - should apply in both cases.

    And tax credits are not only paid to those with children. Working Tax credits are paid to anyone over 25 with or without kids who is in employment and who has an income below a certain level.
    Yes the taxpayer is responsible, because the government that represents the taxpayer sets the rules and the beneficiaries (the people who receive the money, not the employers) play the system to maximise their benefits.

    Again Working Tax Credits are payable (I believe) to those working only 16 hours. How is an employer responsible for the taxpayer via its elected government choosing to subsidise people who want to only work part time?
    Not true. If you are over 25 and have no kids you must work at least 30 hours a week to qualify for WTC.
    30 still isn't full time IMO.

    And how much is spent on WTC for those without kids vs Child Tax Credits?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    edited June 2018
    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    How dare you only aspire to a Premier Inn? Have you no ambition?

    We should all hope one day to get into the Travelodge.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    How are employers remotely responsible for how many children an employee has?

    Or the fact that an employee will only work 16 hours so they can maximise their benefits?
    Is the taxpayer? The same argument - if it has any validity - should apply in both cases.

    And tax credits are not only paid to those with children. Working Tax credits are paid to anyone over 25 with or without kids who is in employment and who has an income below a certain level.
    Yes the taxpayer is responsible, because the government that represents the taxpayer sets the rules and the beneficiaries (the people who receive the money, not the employers) play the system to maximise their benefits.

    Again Working Tax Credits are payable (I believe) to those working only 16 hours. How is an employer responsible for the taxpayer via its elected government choosing to subsidise people who want to only work part time?
    Not true. If you are over 25 and have no kids you must work at least 30 hours a week to qualify for WTC.
    30 still isn't full time IMO.

    And how much is spent on WTC for those without kids vs Child Tax Credits?
    I'd imagine the kiddy credits utterly swamp the WTCs.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    That’s a nice tip. Might take a trip in the autumn. £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
    Imperial Hotel, Russell Square, is good enough, at that price.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,944
    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    That’s a nice tip. Might take a trip in the autumn. £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
    London generally costs at least twice as much as the rest of the country. Strangely, the exception, in the main, is Saturday nights - which can be quite cheap in Town.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,454
    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    That has to be the best bit of advice I ever received since I asked Robert what games I should get for my seven year old son for his PS4.

    Robert suggested Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    How dare you only aspire to a Premier Inn? Have you no ambition?

    We should all hope one day to get into the Travelodge.
    Shudders...the hotel chain that makes ryanair look posh.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    edited June 2018
    On topic the New Club was nice.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
    No. You are conflating the right to request flrexible working with part time hours.

    If you advertise a full time position then you can insist the candidate works full time.

    They can request home working after 24 months in the job but that is nothing to do with the hours.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    That has to be the best bit of advice I ever received since I asked Robert what games I should get for my seven year old son for his PS4.

    Robert suggested Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.
    Have they made a PS4 version of that? Cool!

    ;)
  • Options
    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
    Oh thanks, that is really good to know. I find Edinburgh a tricky place for really top notch food.
    Ondine is good if you like fish. Best value saturday lunchtime meal for ages was Michael Neave on old fishmarket close
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Assume the 1p also has to be matched by employers.

    Would raise a few bil, not massive amounts.

    Employers NI is already more than 1% above employees.

    Yes. But this story is about adding an increment of 1 percentage point. My assumption was it would also require a similar increment on employers.

    Wouldn’t raise much even with that.
    Cutting tax credit and encouraging employers to make that up with wage increases would be far better than taxing more.
    Tax credits are subsidising cheapskate employers. Trouble is, now we are in the system it’s hard to get out of it.
    One could increase the minimum wage whilst at the same time proportionally reducing Tax credits. It would have to be done very slowly because otherwise there are bound to be all sorts of horrible anomalies that need to be worked through the system but the basic principle that the employer should not be subsidised by the state into paying lower wages seems a sound one to me.
    How is the employer subsidised?

    Tax credits are maximised by people who have lots of children and refuse to work more than 16 hours - how does the employer benefit from that?
    Wrong. As I already explained working tax credits are paid to anyone working a minimum number of hours and getting paid less than a certain income.
    That minimum number of hours being I believe 16. Do you think people who refuse to work full time are the employers responsibility? The employer is paying for all work done, the employee isn't working full time - and the taxpayer via the government has opted to choose to subsidise part time work. It was deliberate policy to make work more "family friendly" so don't blame the employer when the taxpayers government chose to do it.
    How many hours one works is a red herring since the minimum wage is not calculated as an overall take home pay but as an hourly rate. Work out what should be considered an acceptable minimum wage for someone working full time - 40 hours a week - and then divide that by the number of hours to get what should be an acceptable hourly minimum wage. Any employer paying less than that would be breaking the law.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    On topic the New Club was nice.

    Yes. Afternoon Tea at the Signet Library is very good
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    I like the Bonham in Edinburgh. I was there at the weekend.

    Also lovely. Edinburgh does have some smashing hotels. Out of season they’re also incredibly cheap. January-March and September-December a 5 star room rarely costs me more than £100 a night.
    That’s a nice tip. Might take a trip in the autumn. £100 gets you an utter shithole in central London.
    London generally costs at least twice as much as the rest of the country. Strangely, the exception, in the main, is Saturday nights - which can be quite cheap in Town.
    So I hear. I live here so have no call for it, but interesting to compare. Just looked up the Balmoral and the Bonham - both look great.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    That has to be the best bit of advice I ever received since I asked Robert what games I should get for my seven year old son for his PS4.

    Robert suggested Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.
    He would have been delighted I'm sure, great advice.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2018
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
    No. You are conflating the right to request flrexible working with part time hours.

    If you advertise a full time position then you can insist the candidate works full time.

    They can request home working after 24 months in the job but that is nothing to do with the hours.
    Job Sharing (where two employees work part time) is specifically mentioned on that link as something that can be requested and an Employment Tribunal can find you've broken the law if you refuse it out of hand. Job Sharing is even mentioned before working from home in that link so not sure how you missed it.

    You do realise many businesses operate on a Part Time basis for a reason, but very few if any businesses deliberately want to cap their employees hours at 16. That is the employees request and it is done so because of the rules the government has set. The government is solely responsible for that and they should fix it so that there is no mammoth disincentive to work past 16 hours.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    edited June 2018

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    The Bruntsfield Hotel, maybe the Braid Hills, are where you should stay. They aren't opulent, but opulent is chav. The Bonham is good too.

    A place that is opulent and camper than Blacks of Greenock , Prestonfield House.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311

    Anazina said:

    FPT

    A mixture of nationalisation and concession is the future of the railways.

    Franchising has failed. Bin it.

    How can you say that when its the nationalised bit that is the root of the problems. Privatise Network Rail.
    Good idea. You'd have to come up with a catchy new name for the private company - how about Railtrack? Oh...
    It was the private sector wot built the first railways :)
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,944

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
    Oh thanks, that is really good to know. I find Edinburgh a tricky place for really top notch food.
    Ondine is good if you like fish. Best value saturday lunchtime meal for ages was Michael Neave on old fishmarket close

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    DavidL said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    I would probably say the G&V myself. Although I always stay at serviced apartments at what used to be called the Knight Residence. Hotel rooms are soulless on your own. An apartment to move around in is much nicer.
    Is the G&V the old Missoni on George IV bridge? If so, that is lovely. Top cocktails too.
    Yep that’s it. Some of the best Italian food in Edinburgh too.
    Oh thanks, that is really good to know. I find Edinburgh a tricky place for really top notch food.
    Ondine is good if you like fish. Best value saturday lunchtime meal for ages was Michael Neave on old fishmarket close
    Thanks.

    The Timberyard was very good - but a bit too fussy for my liking.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Incidentally as well as Job Sharing, Part Time work is also something that can be legally requested under Flexible Working.

    The only reasons to reject Flexible Working are the following:

    Reasons for rejecting

    Employers can reject an application for any of the following reasons:

    extra costs that will damage the business
    the work can’t be reorganised among other staff
    people can’t be recruited to do the work
    flexible working will affect quality and performance
    the business won’t be able to meet customer demand
    there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
    the business is planning changes to the workforce


    Oddly enough so that the taxpayer doesn't have to pay tax credits isn't a reason for rejecting a request. If that was given as the reason I'm fairly confident an Employment Tribunal would rule that decision illegal.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
    No. You are conflating the right to request flrexible working with part time hours.

    If you advertise a full time position then you can insist the candidate works full time.

    They can request home working after 24 months in the job but that is nothing to do with the hours.
    Job Sharing (where two employees work part time) is specifically mentioned on that link as something that can be requested and an Employment Tribunal can find you've broken the law if you refuse it out of hand. Job Sharing is even mentioned before working from home in that link so not sure how you missed it.

    You do realise many businesses operate on a Part Time basis for a reason, but very few if any businesses deliberately want to cap their employees hours at 16. That is the employees request and it is done so because of the rules the government has set. The government is solely responsible for that and they should fix it so that there is no mammoth disincentive to work past 16 hours.
    Refusing a job share is pretty straightforward if the employer is sensible (client relationships, poor standard of sharer etc etc etc). It’s hard to refuse home working in many jobs - that is really the point of the legislation, so more people can work at home (which helps reduces pressure on roads/rail).

    I do agree with you about 16 hours. It’s a stupid cliff edge.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    Sean_F said:

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Premier Inn.
    That has to be the best bit of advice I ever received since I asked Robert what games I should get for my seven year old son for his PS4.

    Robert suggested Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.
    1) Kids love Grand Theft Auto - I know I did

    2) What a terrible suggestion - as great a game as it is, as a gift you should have gotten something current gen at least.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Incidentally as well as Job Sharing, Part Time work is also something that can be legally requested under Flexible Working.

    The only reasons to reject Flexible Working are the following:

    Reasons for rejecting

    Employers can reject an application for any of the following reasons:

    extra costs that will damage the business
    the work can’t be reorganised among other staff
    people can’t be recruited to do the work
    flexible working will affect quality and performance
    the business won’t be able to meet customer demand
    there’s a lack of work to do during the proposed working times
    the business is planning changes to the workforce


    Oddly enough so that the taxpayer doesn't have to pay tax credits isn't a reason for rejecting a request. If that was given as the reason I'm fairly confident an Employment Tribunal would rule that decision illegal.

    :D

    True enough!

    In reality though any employer with half a brain can duck the part time and job share one in most cases. The legislation is really there to support home working and, to a lesser degree, compressed hours.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    edited June 2018
    Eagles

    My friend also recommended GTA for my eight-year-old.

    I think these guys must live in an alternative universe.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
    No. You are conflating the right to request flrexible working with part time hours.

    If you advertise a full time position then you can insist the candidate works full time.

    They can request home working after 24 months in the job but that is nothing to do with the hours.
    Job Sharing (where two employees work part time) is specifically mentioned on that link as something that can be requested and an Employment Tribunal can find you've broken the law if you refuse it out of hand. Job Sharing is even mentioned before working from home in that link so not sure how you missed it.

    You do realise many businesses operate on a Part Time basis for a reason, but very few if any businesses deliberately want to cap their employees hours at 16. That is the employees request and it is done so because of the rules the government has set. The government is solely responsible for that and they should fix it so that there is no mammoth disincentive to work past 16 hours.
    Refusing a job share is pretty straightforward if the employer is sensible (client relationships, poor standard of sharer etc etc etc). It’s hard to refuse home working in many jobs - that is really the point of the legislation, so more people can work at home (which helps reduces pressure on roads/rail).

    I do agree with you about 16 hours. It’s a stupid cliff edge.
    My other half works from home. As you point out (Where it is possible) it saves congestion on the roads/rail as well as being more economical obviously for the worker with no commute in terms of overall travel.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Anazina said:

    Eagles

    My friend also recommended GTA for my eight-year-old.

    I think these guys must live in an alternative universe.

    The original GTA probably would now be fine for an 8 year old so long as the parents consider they are able to hear vulgar language without repeating it - it's less serious tone and simplistic top down graphics mean there would be nothing particularly brutal about it.

    But frankly there are any number of games and movies which are explicitly aimed at children (or all ages) which are essentially just as violent, implicitly, as GTA, so no need to go full GA with the kids generally!
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    How many hours one works is a red herring since the minimum wage is not calculated as an overall take home pay but as an hourly rate. Work out what should be considered an acceptable minimum wage for someone working full time - 40 hours a week - and then divide that by the number of hours to get what should be an acceptable hourly minimum wage. Any employer paying less than that would be breaking the law.

    I would completely agree on the additional requirement that if that is the minimum that an employee needs then it should be untaxed and that includes Employers NI as well as Employees NI and Income Tax. If its getting taxed then the government has decided that's above the minimum already.

    Today for someone over 25 earning minimum wage on 40 hours a week the government takes off roughly £3000 in taxation. Why is the government taking away £3000 in taxation then saying that they're underpaid?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    AndyJS said:

    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And only a single poll showing a Labour lead (and that only 1%) over the last 29 polls......

    Are we at "mid-term" yet?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    edited June 2018

    What we need is a complete reform of the tax system. Obviously I am in favour of a low flat rate tax because of my political views but putting that to one side, whether one agrees with a low tax system or a high tax system I think everyone can agree that the current system for tax and NI is just ridiculous.

    We should look at merging Income tax, NI and any other sorts of personal taxes on unearned income and say that everyone whose earnings are in the same band should pay the same amount of overall tax whether they are employed, self employed or retired. To end the horrible idea of double taxation in inheritance, we should stop taxing the estate and tax the recipient on the same basis as any other income. So if your estate is left to one person they might end up paying quite a large amount of tax but if you have 5 kids and the estate is split amongst them then tax paid is based on their individual circumstances.

    As I say personally I would like to see such a system tied to a much smaller state but that is immaterial in this particular argument. What we really need at the moment is transparency and a much simplified tax system.

    Good post. I agree with all of it, although I suspect we would differ on the level of the rate. The system is so complex that hardly anyone not professionally involved really understands it.
    It encourages govts of both kinds to be dishonest (we are raising/cutting NI, but not taxes) and all manner of accounting dodges.
    Set the rate. Then transparently argue as to why it needs to be raised/lowered.
    As an economy, we could probably survive with many fewer accountants. They could put their undoubted cunning and intellect to more productive pursuits.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    AndyJS said:

    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Pulpstar said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Phillip

    You do realise that they hire them voluntarily?

    Wrong.

    Its a legal requirement to do so. Refusing to offer flexible working hours where possible or discriminating against people with children etc is against the law.
    No. You are conflating the right to request flrexible working with part time hours.

    If you advertise a full time position then you can insist the candidate works full time.

    They can request home working after 24 months in the job but that is nothing to do with the hours.
    Job Sharing (where two employees work part time) is specifically mentioned on that link as something that can be requested and an Employment Tribunal can find you've broken the law if you refuse it out of hand. Job Sharing is even mentioned before working from home in that link so not sure how you missed it.

    You do realise many businesses operate on a Part Time basis for a reason, but very few if any businesses deliberately want to cap their employees hours at 16. That is the employees request and it is done so because of the rules the government has set. The government is solely responsible for that and they should fix it so that there is no mammoth disincentive to work past 16 hours.
    Refusing a job share is pretty straightforward if the employer is sensible (client relationships, poor standard of sharer etc etc etc). It’s hard to refuse home working in many jobs - that is really the point of the legislation, so more people can work at home (which helps reduces pressure on roads/rail).

    I do agree with you about 16 hours. It’s a stupid cliff edge.
    My other half works from home. As you point out (Where it is possible) it saves congestion on the roads/rail as well as being more economical obviously for the worker with no commute in terms of overall travel.
    I work at home two out of five days (on average). (Although It doesn’t save me much money on travel because I lose the discount on a travel card, which are designed for people commuting every weekday). I usually end up working longer hours when I work at home, but when I take off the commuting time, shorter days.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770

    AndyJS said:

    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And only a single poll showing a Labour lead (and that only 1%) over the last 29 polls......

    Are we at "mid-term" yet?
    Depends how long the government lasts, and it has moments when it looks quite shaky, despite Labour not pulling away in the polls - it might be past mid-term!
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    How many hours one works is a red herring since the minimum wage is not calculated as an overall take home pay but as an hourly rate. Work out what should be considered an acceptable minimum wage for someone working full time - 40 hours a week - and then divide that by the number of hours to get what should be an acceptable hourly minimum wage. Any employer paying less than that would be breaking the law.

    I would completely agree on the additional requirement that if that is the minimum that an employee needs then it should be untaxed and that includes Employers NI as well as Employees NI and Income Tax. If its getting taxed then the government has decided that's above the minimum already.

    Today for someone over 25 earning minimum wage on 40 hours a week the government takes off roughly £3000 in taxation. Why is the government taking away £3000 in taxation then saying that they're underpaid?
    The other advantage of combining NI and income tax is that it would improve generational inequality.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Yes. Afternoon Tea at the Signet Library is very good

    It really is
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    FF43 said:

    A place that is opulent and camper than Blacks of Greenock , Prestonfield House.

    The décor is how I imagine the inside of TSE wardrobe
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Eagles

    My friend also recommended GTA for my eight-year-old.

    I think these guys must live in an alternative universe.

    The original GTA probably would now be fine for an 8 year old so long as the parents consider they are able to hear vulgar language without repeating it - it's less serious tone and simplistic top down graphics mean there would be nothing particularly brutal about it.

    But frankly there are any number of games and movies which are explicitly aimed at children (or all ages) which are essentially just as violent, implicitly, as GTA, so no need to go full GA with the kids generally!
    We loved the Uncharted series (which is Pegi 16 but I thought it was okay for him to play with an adult) and are desperate to find something else which we can both get so involved in. All the other action adventures are Pegi 18 - Hitman, Assassins Creed and - particularly - A Way Out all look superb but I’m not comfortable offering them to my son!
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,770
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Eagles

    My friend also recommended GTA for my eight-year-old.

    I think these guys must live in an alternative universe.

    The original GTA probably would now be fine for an 8 year old so long as the parents consider they are able to hear vulgar language without repeating it - it's less serious tone and simplistic top down graphics mean there would be nothing particularly brutal about it.

    But frankly there are any number of games and movies which are explicitly aimed at children (or all ages) which are essentially just as violent, implicitly, as GTA, so no need to go full GA with the kids generally!
    We loved the Uncharted series (which is Pegi 16 but I thought it was okay for him to play with an adult) and are desperate to find something else which we can both get so involved in. All the other action adventures are Pegi 18 - Hitman, Assassins Creed and - particularly - A Way Out all look superb but I’m not comfortable offering them to my son!
    The new Tomb Raiders are basically just Uncharted with Lara Croft, but admittedly the death animations can be a bit over the top brutal in them, so perhaps not a great idea.

    Night all.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2018

    AndyJS said:

    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And only a single poll showing a Labour lead (and that only 1%) over the last 29 polls......

    Are we at "mid-term" yet?
    Not really, we're still in the opening phase of the parliament.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited June 2018
    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    How many hours one works is a red herring since the minimum wage is not calculated as an overall take home pay but as an hourly rate. Work out what should be considered an acceptable minimum wage for someone working full time - 40 hours a week - and then divide that by the number of hours to get what should be an acceptable hourly minimum wage. Any employer paying less than that would be breaking the law.

    I would completely agree on the additional requirement that if that is the minimum that an employee needs then it should be untaxed and that includes Employers NI as well as Employees NI and Income Tax. If its getting taxed then the government has decided that's above the minimum already.

    Today for someone over 25 earning minimum wage on 40 hours a week the government takes off roughly £3000 in taxation. Why is the government taking away £3000 in taxation then saying that they're underpaid?
    Yep agree 100%. It is ludicrous that the Government gives out with one hand and takes back with the other. You are either earning enough to contribute or you are not.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Barnesian said:

    stodge said:

    DavidL said:


    In my view health and the closely related issue of social care need something like an additional £40-50 bn a year. I just don’t think it possible or moral
    to ask those working for a living to pay that whilst our elderly rich pass on their estates to the next generation largely untaxed. Sooner or later we will need to return to the dementia tax. I hope it’s sooner.

    It also challenges us on a cultural level. Most people, when young, don't want to think about growing old or dying as we are encouraged to "live". Having a plan for when you are old is as important as having one when you are young.

    Spending will always look more attractive than saving and we've been conditioned to believe happiness comes with the latest gadget, the most faraway place visited, the latest "thing". The notion all that is subsidiary to nursing care in your 80s and 90s isn't one that's going to be easy to embed.

    How sad it would be if young people gave up enjoying themselves and focused on providing nursing care for themselves in their 80s and 90s! What a dull and dismal life.

    They should have an exit strategy (high speed powerboat racing is a good one, or a heavy morphine habit) but they don't need to think about that until much later.
    The government could give people the choice: either put money aside for social care in your 80s and 90s or hose it against the wall in your 20s and 30s but be euthanased on your 80th birthday.
    I think most would pick the latter!
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,083
    Bollox.

    Increase tax on workers but not layabouts or those over 65 ?

    Fack off.

    And if there's anyone who's so desperate to pay this extra NI then go down to your local hospital with your cheque book and make a donation.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    Not much surprise, funding healthcare and welfare is largely what National Insurance was set up to do and I would expect the Government will largely use NI to fund both NHS and social care increases.

    This is a completely different prospect to the 'dementia tax' which polls showed strong opposition to as in effect taking the key asset of homeowners if they needed personal care rather than NI which is made up of contributions paid from your wages and should return to its original principle as a proper insurance.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,311
    edited June 2018


    Alliance/Independent: 1

    There are no Alliance MPs, only independent Lady Hermon
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    I agree and the Labour Brexiteers could be crucial, especially if there are more Tory Remainer rebels than expected (I would also add John Mann, Roger Godsiff, Kelvin Hopkins and Graham Stringer as possible Labour Brexiteers too as well as Hoey and Field).
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    There are only 257 Labour MPs in total at the moment. Removing Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers puts that down to 253.

    I would assume that two of the MPs elected for Labour who have lost the whip - John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis - would be expected to vote with Labour but would Kelvin Hopkins, given he is such a prominent Labour Eurosceptic? Also can anyone rely on Jared O'Mara actually turning up to vote.

    I would also assume that Charlie Elphick will vote with the Government. So I make that the 329 for - assuming Hopkins votes with against the Customs Union - and 308 against assuming O'Mara doesn't bother turning up.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I remember when spreadsheet Phil tried to put a similar amount on NI for self employed...the wailing was deafening.

    How many journalists and media mavens are self employed?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,083
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Today's YouGov poll was the 19th in a row without a Labour lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    And only a single poll showing a Labour lead (and that only 1%) over the last 29 polls......

    Are we at "mid-term" yet?
    Not really, we're still in the opening phase of the parliament.
    But three years after 2015 - there's different ways of looking at things.

    And the governing party has a bigger lead now than it did at the last election.

    Its complicated and confusing.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    Have you remembered to knock off Lewisham East from the labour total
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,083
    Charles said:

    I remember when spreadsheet Phil tried to put a similar amount on NI for self employed...the wailing was deafening.

    How many journalists and media mavens are self employed?
    The tantruming by some Conservative MPs to the proposed NI change was contemptible.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @DavidL (or anyone else)

    What's the best hotel in Edinburgh?

    Is it the Caley/Waldorf Astoria?

    Depends what you are looking for. The Balmoral for traditional grandeur I'd guess. The glasshouse for contemporary style would be my choice though.
    I want opulence.

    I want somewhere where there's no chavs or hen parties.
    Balmoral has lots of nooks and crannies where you can ...
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2018

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    There are only 257 Labour MPs in total at the moment. Removing Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers puts that down to 253.

    I would assume that two of the MPs elected for Labour who have lost the whip - John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis - would be expected to vote with Labour but would Kelvin Hopkins, given he is such a prominent Labour Eurosceptic? Also can anyone rely on Jared O'Mara actually turning up to vote.

    I would also assume that Charlie Elphick will vote with the Government. So I make that the 329 for - assuming Hopkins votes with against the Customs Union - and 308 against assuming O'Mara doesn't bother turning up.
    Labour had 262 MPs returned in June 2017. Take off two Deputy Speakers - Omara - Lewisham East vacant - Kelvin hopkins - John Woodcock- gives a total of 256. Doubtless Woodcock will vote with Labour. By the time any 'ping pong' takes place Labour is likely to have filled the Lewisham E vacant seat.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    Citizens lead PSOE by 1% in new Spanish poll, PP tied with Podemos (albeit it is for European elections)

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1004009337877090304
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    edited June 2018

    Bollox.

    Increase tax on workers but not layabouts or those over 65 ?

    Fack off.

    And if there's anyone who's so desperate to pay this extra NI then go down to your local hospital with your cheque book and make a donation.

    I think most workers would rather pay 1p extra in National Insurance to fund the NHS and at home social care than face losing most of the inheritance windfall they are expecting when their parents pass away with a dementia or wealth tax on their parents home.

    The government is likely to extend National Insurance to over 65s still in work anyway
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945
    justin124 said:

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    There are only 257 Labour MPs in total at the moment. Removing Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers puts that down to 253.

    I would assume that two of the MPs elected for Labour who have lost the whip - John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis - would be expected to vote with Labour but would Kelvin Hopkins, given he is such a prominent Labour Eurosceptic? Also can anyone rely on Jared O'Mara actually turning up to vote.

    I would also assume that Charlie Elphick will vote with the Government. So I make that the 329 for - assuming Hopkins votes with against the Customs Union - and 308 against assuming O'Mara doesn't bother turning up.
    Labour had 262 MPs returned in June 2017. Take off two Deputy Speakers - Omara - Lewisham East vacant - Kelvin hopkins - John Woodcock- gives a total of 256. Doubtless Woodcock will vote with Labour. By the time any 'ping pong' takes place Labour is likely to have filled the Lewisham E vacant seat.
    I am using the HoC own website with the current numbers

    Conservative
    316
    Labour
    257
    Scottish National Party
    35
    Liberal Democrat
    12
    Democratic Unionist Party
    10
    Sinn Féin
    7
    Independent
    6
    Plaid Cymru
    4
    Green Party
    1
    Speaker
    1
    Vacant
    1

    Take off the 2 deputy speakers, Hopkins, Hoey and Field gets you down to 252. If Omara doesn't turn up that is 251 but assume the two other suspended MPs - Woodcock and Lewis - vote with Labour that is 253. 35 SNP, 12 Lib Dems, 4 PC, 1 Green and Harmon make another 53 so that is 306 in total assuming no other Labour Brexiteers vote against the CU.

    The Tories have 317 assuming Elphick votes with them plus 10 DUP and (in this example) 3 Labour. That is 330 and knock 1 off for the deputy speaker.

    So 329 vs 306.

    12 rebels needed on the Tory benches. More if any of the other Labour folk vote against the CU.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    My calculation of the Customs Union vote mathematics:

    For the amendment (best case scenario)

    Labour: 257 (all MPs except Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers)
    Lib Dem: 12
    SNP: 35
    Plaid: 4
    Alliance/Independent: 1
    Green: 1

    Total: 310


    There are 317 Con MPs. Add 10 DUP, 3 Labour Brexiteers, subtract 1 for deputy speaker gives 329

    So the Conservatives can afford up to 10 rebels. Clarke and Soubry will certainly be two of these, but are there 8 more? I think the Government will just squeak it.

    There are only 257 Labour MPs in total at the moment. Removing Hoey, Field and the 2 deputy speakers puts that down to 253.

    I would assume that two of the MPs elected for Labour who have lost the whip - John Woodcock and Ivan Lewis - would be expected to vote with Labour but would Kelvin Hopkins, given he is such a prominent Labour Eurosceptic? Also can anyone rely on Jared O'Mara actually turning up to vote.

    I would also assume that Charlie Elphick will vote with the Government. So I make that the 329 for - assuming Hopkins votes with against the Customs Union - and 308 against assuming O'Mara doesn't bother turning up.
    Labour had 262 MPs returned in June 2017. Take off two Deputy Speakers - Omara - Lewisham East vacant - Kelvin hopkins - John Woodcock- gives a total of 256. Doubtless Woodcock will vote with Labour. By the time any 'ping pong' takes place Labour is likely to have filled the Lewisham E vacant seat.
    I am using the HoC own website with the current numbers

    Conservative
    316
    Labour
    257
    Scottish National Party
    35
    Liberal Democrat
    12
    Democratic Unionist Party
    10
    Sinn Féin
    7
    Independent
    6
    Plaid Cymru
    4
    Green Party
    1
    Speaker
    1
    Vacant
    1

    Take off the 2 deputy speakers, Hopkins, Hoey and Field gets you down to 252. If Omara doesn't turn up that is 251 but assume the two other suspended MPs - Woodcock and Lewis - vote with Labour that is 253. 35 SNP, 12 Lib Dems, 4 PC, 1 Green and Harmon make another 53 so that is 306 in total assuming no other Labour Brexiteers vote against the CU.

    The Tories have 317 assuming Elphick votes with them plus 10 DUP and (in this example) 3 Labour. That is 330 and knock 1 off for the deputy speaker.

    So 329 vs 306.

    12 rebels needed on the Tory benches. More if any of the other Labour folk vote against the CU.
    I had forgotten about Ivan Lewis - but 635 MPs implies 15 MPs would not vote. In addition to 7 SF we have the Speaker and 3 Deputies.Also I vacant but that still leaves 338. Who knows whether O'Mara will vote?
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited June 2018

    Bollox.

    Increase tax on workers but not layabouts or those over 65 ?

    Fack off.

    And if there's anyone who's so desperate to pay this extra NI then go down to your local hospital with your cheque book and make a donation.

    Well said.

    One pence on NI won't solve the problem of our ageing population and the impending social care disaster we are facing and frankly why should average earners who rent pay more tax so someone who owns a house worth £5m can leave it to their 65 year old kids and get free social care.

    And that's of course assuming you believe that this policy will survive 40 years and will therefore fund your social care needs if you are aged 35 now. Will the government stick to its promise or the promise of previous parliaments? It hasn't on pensions!

    Sorry I don't buy it.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    brendan16 said:

    Bollox.

    Increase tax on workers but not layabouts or those over 65 ?

    Fack off.

    And if there's anyone who's so desperate to pay this extra NI then go down to your local hospital with your cheque book and make a donation.

    Well said.

    One pence on NI won't solve the problem of our ageing population and the impending social care disaster we are facing and frankly why should average earners who rent pay more tax so someone who owns a house worth £5m can leave it to their 65 year old kids and get free social care.

    And that's of course assuming you believe that this policy will survive 40 years and will therefore fund your social care needs if you are aged 35 now. Will the government stick to its promise or the promise of previous parliaments? It hasn't on pensions!

    Sorry I don't buy it.
    The amount of money spent on care for the elderly, pensions and health care is growing about 2.5x quicker than the economy as a whole. The proportion of people's pay checks going out to look after the old will continue to rise.

    At some point the young will either leave for somewhere with healthier demographics, or there will be a revolt. (Or probably a bit of both.)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    The Democrats are doing their best to get locked out of the California 48th - which should be their best chance of a pickup in the mid-terms:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/05/us/elections/results-california-primary-elections.html
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    edited June 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    The Democrats are doing their best to get locked out of the California 48th - which should be their best chance of a pickup in the mid-terms:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/05/us/elections/results-california-primary-elections.html

    The primary system really must suppress turnout in the general. If your only two choices are from the same party, there isn't much incentive to vote.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
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