@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
It would probably be closer to 50k. I agree money is not the only criteria - but it is the simplest to understand, easiest to implement, and perhaps fairest.
I don't agree with that at all.
For a start, there are major regional variations on salaries, largely based on the differences in wages between London and the regions. A 50k requirement would effectively limit immigration to very highly skilled and specialised jobs, and the financial services sector (and its various spin offs), mostly in London. It would not benefit many industries where there is a skill shortage eg architecture, or nursing. It would also arguably hold British people back, as there would be massive competition for jobs over a certain salary level. I don't see how that would be fair.
I don't think that 'simple to understand' and 'easy to implement' should be the guiding principles for an immigration policy.
"it would also arguably hold British people back. as there would be massive competition for jobs over a certain salary level. I don't see how that would be fair".
Quite. The minimum salary level now is the minimum wage, or less of course cash in hand down the building site.
It would probably be closer to 50k. I agree money is not the only criteria - but it is the simplest to understand, easiest to implement, and perhaps fairest.
I've done the sums for this in a previous job, I think it was £36k as a minimum requirement for a single person and £44k for someone coming with dependents. Targeting around 125k-175k net migration. Plus a temporary working holiday visa scheme for young people and seasonal workers.
A friend of mine came from over from China last decade. Studied a masters degree in architecture. Upon graduation, he got a job with an architecture firm in London, first as an intern earning below minimum wage for a year or so. The company then sponsored him to get a visa to stay in the UK, he was earning aroun 25-30 k, and he worked for 5 years, increasingly on projects in China, where he had contacts and work experience. A decade on, he is running the business in so far as it relates to China, eventually returning there to open an office, dividing his time between the two countries. It is bringing in millions of pounds for this British architecture firm.
You just can't train a British person for that kind of role, it isn't possible. But it isn't an uncommon story in the architectural sector. You have to listen to what these industries are saying, not rely on your own theories.
Being in the EU and putting EU immigration first makes that much harder to do, so hopefully Brexit will open up these opportunities more.
This is a category error. EU citizens are exercising their rights as citizens within a single market. Nobody thought the EU had any relevance at all to immigration policy before expansion.
It didn't 1973 -2004 because freedom of movement (or was it right to work before it seemingly morphed) was between fairly even economies pre the Easy Jet age.
Well it bloody well does now, of course. Anyone with half a brain could see the huge magnetic effect of a big wage disparity post 2004. And that would've been before the UK, Ireland, and Sweden alone gave full access at once.
Blair et al of course did not possess half a brain.
It's easy to forget the context of the early 2000s. Perhaps in isolation the decision not to impose transition controls was correct, but it was compounded by other policies.
"Blair et al of course did not possess half a brain."
With half a brain, he might have invested money in infrastructure for the areas where mass immigration was likely. Unless he really did want to rub their faces in the diversity.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
A friend of mine came from over from China last decade. Studied a masters degree in architecture. Upon graduation, he got a job with an architecture firm in London, first as an intern earning below minimum wage for a year or so. The company then sponsored him to get a visa to stay in the UK, he was earning aroun 25-30 k, and he worked for 5 years, increasingly on projects in China, where he had contacts and work experience. A decade on, he is running the business in so far as it relates to China, eventually returning there to open an office, dividing his time between the two countries. It is bringing in millions of pounds for this British architecture firm.
You just can't train a British person for that kind of role, it isn't possible. But it isn't an uncommon story in the architectural sector. You have to listen to what these industries are saying, not rely on your own theories.
Being in the EU and putting EU immigration first makes that much harder to do, so hopefully Brexit will open up these opportunities more.
This is a category error. EU citizens are exercising their rights as citizens within a single market. Nobody thought the EU had any relevance at all to immigration policy before expansion.
It didn't 1973 -2004 because freedom of movement (or was it right to work before it seemingly morphed) was between fairly even economies pre the Easy Jet age.
Well it bloody well does now, of course. Anyone with half a brain could see the huge magnetic effect of a big wage disparity post 2004. And that would've been before the UK, Ireland, and Sweden alone gave full access at once.
Blair et al of course did not possess half a brain.
It's easy to forget the context of the early 2000s. Perhaps in isolation the decision not to impose transition controls was correct, but it was compounded by other policies.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
no it's because uncontrolled immigration has suppressed wages for the lower paid so we're having to legislate higher wages for favoured groups.
It would probably be closer to 50k. I agree money is not the only criteria - but it is the simplest to understand, easiest to implement, and perhaps fairest.
I don't agree with that at all.
For a start, there are major regional variations on salaries, largely based on the differences in wages between London and the regions. A 50k requirement would effectively limit immigration to very highly skilled and specialised jobs, and the financial services sector (and its various spin offs), mostly in London. It would not benefit many industries where there is a skill shortage eg architecture, or nursing. It would also arguably hold British people back, as there would be massive competition for jobs over a certain salary level. I don't see how that would be fair.
I don't think that 'simple to understand' and 'easy to implement' should be the guiding principles for an immigration policy.
"it would also arguably hold British people back. as there would be massive competition for jobs over a certain salary level. I don't see how that would be fair".
Quite. The minimum salary level now is the minimum wage, or less of course cash in hand down the building site.
Do you not see this??????
I am not trying to defend the current system of free movement, in that regard you seem to misunderstand me. I am trying to challenge the view expressed by Gardenwalker and supported by others on here that we need to set an immigration policy based solely on an income threshold. My personal view is that there should be an income threshold, but it should be set quite low (so, somewhere between the minimum wage and the £50k suggested by Gardenwalker) and account for regional and sectoral variations.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
no it's because uncontrolled immigration has suppressed wages for the lower paid so we're having to legislate higher wages for favoured groups.
You're talking about something else. And also wrong - but that's a separate issue.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
no it's because uncontrolled immigration has suppressed wages for the lower paid so we're having to legislate higher wages for favoured groups.
You're talking about something else. And also wrong - but that's a separate issue.
no I'm merely reminding you of the root causes
and if you don't understand how supply and demand work then maybe it's time you did.
A friend of mine came from over from China last decade. Studied a masters degree in architecture. Upon graduation, he got a job with an architecture firm in London, first as an intern earning below minimum wage for a year or so. The company then sponsored him to get a visa to stay in the UK, he was earning aroun 25-30 k, and he worked for 5 years, increasingly on projects in China, where he had contacts and work experience. A decade on, he is running the business in so far as it relates to China, eventually returning there to open an office, dividing his time between the two countries. It is bringing in millions of pounds for this British architecture firm.
You just can't train a British person for that kind of role, it isn't possible. But it isn't an uncommon story in the architectural sector. You have to listen to what these industries are saying, not rely on your own theories.
Being in the EU and putting EU immigration first makes that much harder to do, so hopefully Brexit will open up these opportunities more.
This is a category error. EU citizens are exercising their rights as citizens within a single market. Nobody thought the EU had any relevance at all to immigration policy before expansion.
It didn't 1973 -2004 because freedom of movement (or was it right to work before it seemingly morphed) was between fairly even economies pre the Easy Jet age.
Well it bloody well does now, of course. Anyone with half a brain could see the huge magnetic effect of a big wage disparity post 2004. And that would've been before the UK, Ireland, and Sweden alone gave full access at once.
Blair et al of course did not possess half a brain.
It's easy to forget the context of the early 2000s. Perhaps in isolation the decision not to impose transition controls was correct, but it was compounded by other policies.
Makes no sense, given that UKIP will be contributing around 120 seats to the pool. It doesn't inspire confidence.
Note the table at the end of the article, showing the outcome vs forecasts in 2017. Rallings & Thrasher were miles out then.
Executive summary: no-one has a clue!
Edit: Ah yes, looks like a typo. That makes much more sense.
Are there fewer seats in total this time? I think Birmingham has had its number of councillors cut - have other councils fared similarly / been merged / abolished?
I don't think that the boundary changes in Leeds have resulted in a reduction in seats.
No, Leeds hasn't (declaration of interest - I'm a candidate there this year).
May I ask which ward?
Middleton Park. I hope I'm not breaking any confidences when I say that I don't expect to be elected.
Thanks. We can both be gallant losers then.
I am hoping to beat the SDP candidate (isn't it amazing how some parties refuse to die). Where are you standing?
I'm making up the numbers in one of the Craven wards.
I think they'd be watching the wrong thing if they're looking for Sandy there. Although there is a Craven ward on Bradford council (Addingham, Steeton and Silsden mainly), I think he's referring to Craven District Council, which is in North Yorkshire?
Survation. @Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
no it's because uncontrolled immigration has suppressed wages for the lower paid so we're having to legislate higher wages for favoured groups.
You're talking about something else. And also wrong - but that's a separate issue.
no I'm merely reminding you of the root causes
and if you don't understand how supply and demand work then maybe it's time you did.
Survation. @Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Isn't the 'real' living wage thing because Osborne tried to steal the branding?
no it's because uncontrolled immigration has suppressed wages for the lower paid so we're having to legislate higher wages for favoured groups.
You're talking about something else. And also wrong - but that's a separate issue.
no I'm merely reminding you of the root causes
and if you don't understand how supply and demand work then maybe it's time you did.
Makes no sense, given that UKIP will be contributing around 120 seats to the pool. It doesn't inspire confidence.
Note the table at the end of the article, showing the outcome vs forecasts in 2017. Rallings & Thrasher were miles out then.
Executive summary: no-one has a clue!
Edit: Ah yes, looks like a typo. That makes much more sense.
Are there fewer seats in total this time? I think Birmingham has had its number of councillors cut - have other councils fared similarly / been merged / abolished?
I don't think that the boundary changes in Leeds have resulted in a reduction in seats.
No, Leeds hasn't (declaration of interest - I'm a candidate there this year).
May I ask which ward?
Middleton Park. I hope I'm not breaking any confidences when I say that I don't expect to be elected.
Thanks. We can both be gallant losers then.
I am hoping to beat the SDP candidate (isn't it amazing how some parties refuse to die). Where are you standing?
I'm making up the numbers in one of the Craven wards.
I think they'd be watching the wrong thing if they're looking for Sandy there. Although there is a Craven ward on Bradford council (Addingham, Steeton and Silsden mainly), I think he's referring to Craven District Council, which is in North Yorkshire?
Just to add to the confusion, there is also a Craven ward in Pendle.
@Survation 9h9 hours ago More London Council Election Polling. On behalf of @4in10, 81% of Londoners Tell Survation Local Councils should pay the real living wage:
LOL. First the minimum wage, then the living wage, and now the real living wage.
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
It had to happen when Osborne co-opted the existing Living Wage tag for his Minimum Wage increase.
This sort of thing goes down very well back home. Macron sees a gap (the withdrawal of Britain as a vehicle of influence in Europe) and he’s trying to fill it.
His accent is awful though. Quite painful. “Fought” sounds like “fart”.
Australians fought in the second world war as well but in talking about ww1 Macron's dog whistle is that Britain got thousands of Anzacs killed at Gallipoli.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
the select committee just looks a shambles
lots of posturing MPs trying to score points as Nicky Morgan tries to be Miss Whiplash
Makes no sense, given that UKIP will be contributing around 120 seats to the pool. It doesn't inspire confidence.
Note the table at the end of the article, showing the outcome vs forecasts in 2017. Rallings & Thrasher were miles out then.
Executive summary: no-one has a clue!
Edit: Ah yes, looks like a typo. That makes much more sense.
Are there fewer seats in total this time? I think Birmingham has had its number of councillors cut - have other councils fared similarly / been merged / abolished?
I don't think that the boundary changes in Leeds have resulted in a reduction in seats.
No, Leeds hasn't (declaration of interest - I'm a candidate there this year).
May I ask which ward?
Middleton Park. I hope I'm not breaking any confidences when I say that I don't expect to be elected.
Thanks. We can both be gallant losers then.
I am hoping to beat the SDP candidate (isn't it amazing how some parties refuse to die). Where are you standing?
I'm making up the numbers in one of the Craven wards.
I think they'd be watching the wrong thing if they're looking for Sandy there. Although there is a Craven ward on Bradford council (Addingham, Steeton and Silsden mainly), I think he's referring to Craven District Council, which is in North Yorkshire?
Just to add to the confusion, there is also a Craven ward in Pendle.
It would probably be closer to 50k. I agree money is not the only criteria - but it is the simplest to understand, easiest to implement, and perhaps fairest.
I don't agree with that at all.
For a start, there are major regional variations on salaries, largely based on the differences in wages between London and the regions. A 50k requirement would effectively limit immigration to very highly skilled and specialised jobs, and the financial services sector (and its various spin offs), mostly in London. It would not benefit many industries where there is a skill shortage eg architecture, or nursing. It would also arguably hold British people back, as there would be massive competition for jobs over a certain salary level. I don't see how that would be fair.
I don't think that 'simple to understand' and 'easy to implement' should be the guiding principles for an immigration policy.
The other thing to think about with immigration policy (and other visa stuff) is that other countries will tend to reciprocate, so whatever you do, you need to ask whether you'd want it applied to your own citizens.
Taking away opportunities for British people on low and medium incomes to get better jobs overseas seems like a weird way to handle perceived loss of opportunities to those same people from foreign competition, but the British are already screwing those people with their "foreign spouses are a luxury lifestyle choice" policy, so maybe it's what the voters want.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
It's mostly working, I had one unsuccesful payment last week (Which I quickly redid). Anyway they're paying 5% on 1,500 (Effectively 3k since you can easily open a joint account) again so happy days.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
the select committee just looks a shambles
lots of posturing MPs trying to score points as Nicky Morgan tries to be Miss Whiplash
Indeed - trying to get their snippet on the evening news - these committee hearings have become devalued - all about the prima donna MPs being "tough" on a CEO who wouldn't know a server from a baseline.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
the select committee just looks a shambles
lots of posturing MPs trying to score points as Nicky Morgan tries to be Miss Whiplash
Indeed - trying to get their snippet on the evening news - these committee hearings have become devalued - all about the prima donna MPs being "tough" on a CEO who wouldn't know a server from a baseline.
The Select committees in this Parliament have been extremely good. High profile people chairing the committees. Yvette effectively outed Rudd. Sadly, the wrong Tory lost her job.
Just returned from hospital and my son in law and he is fine .
I want to thank so many of you have expressed your kind words and it raises the spirit that so many on here have a generosity of spirit
I have switched on Parliament channel and just witnessed the most extraordinary full on attack by Savid Javid against the labour front bench allowing members of the labour party to call him a 'coconut' or 'Uncle Tom'. He challenged Corbyn to stand up and denounce it and he remained in place. Diane Abbott stood up and muttered a few words.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
How much about software do these bosses know ? I hope they can use a calculator. Sorry, they can. They know how to work out their bonuses.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
the select committee just looks a shambles
lots of posturing MPs trying to score points as Nicky Morgan tries to be Miss Whiplash
Indeed - trying to get their snippet on the evening news - these committee hearings have become devalued - all about the prima donna MPs being "tough" on a CEO who wouldn't know a server from a baseline.
I find it a bit rich that MPs who couldn't run their own departments suddenly get to dawn halos.
So TSB IT has flopped - not good , but will anyone be questioning ministers on how their NHS IT flop led to 270 premature deaths ? I suspect not.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
I am not trying to defend the current system of free movement, in that regard you seem to misunderstand me. I am trying to challenge the view expressed by Gardenwalker and supported by others on here that we need to set an immigration policy based solely on an income threshold. My personal view is that there should be an income threshold, but it should be set quite low (so, somewhere between the minimum wage and the £50k suggested by Gardenwalker) and account for regional and sectoral variations.
In my original post I suggested there would of course be skill- or industry-based exceptions.
However, I do think policy should be simple to understand and easy to inplement. The whole problem with immigration, politically, is that’s a whole mountain of myth has built up around it. Light is a great disinfectant, let’s be open and honest about it.
As to your stuff about unfair on the regions, I really don’t get it. Immigrants need jobs. We need immigrants to have jobs. They should simply go where the work is.
"We had a veto on expansion, we unilaterally chose to waive transition measures, and the bulk of inward migration was not from the EU anyway...
If we'd had migration at the same rate as Australia the population would be over 100m"
Yes we had a veto. Blair threw it away (and then threw more away with Lisbon despite promising a say). 23/6/16 was the first time we'd had a specific chance to comment on that decision. So amongst other things we voted to "unwaiver" so to speak. It was the most obvious symbol of the control and decision making we had carelessly given way.
Australia has a continent to populate as you are well aware. Our needs in terms of immigration are not theirs. They may well wish to encourage lots of pineapple propagation specialists for their pizza industry (to just pluck one example out of thin air), for which our chilly climes would have little need.
The point is, whom and how many they let in is under the democratic control of the Australian people, not carelessly farmed out without thinking about it (remember the "15K will come" fiasco?). Lucky country.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
^^^^THIS
I always found it interesting working in IT consulting, especially when in business implementation teams.
The toughest management meetings to be heard in were always the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem'.
The easiest ones in which to get a hearing were when the problem had manifested and suddenly management wants a solution.
Of course, the easiest solution would have been to have listened to the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem' meeting...
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
The TSB upper echelons don't need to focus on how to fix the software but do need to be quizzed on how they are going to compensate customers / ensure any wrongs are righted, etc.
No overdraft charges for March / April are a good start - I just wish I had maxed out my account to take advantage ;-)
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
^^^^THIS
I always found it interesting working in IT consulting, especially when in business implementation teams.
The toughest management meetings to be heard in were always the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem'.
The easiest ones in which to get a hearing were when the problem had manifested and suddenly management wants a solution.
Of course, the easiest solution would have been to have listened to the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem' meeting...
The management types seem to think that the upgrade will just work perfectly because magic, reduce your project timescale, your QA budget and your downtime window - then be upset when something out of the ordinary happens, despite their being in the risk meetings arguing against all the mitigation that the project team wished to incorporate. Or maybe I’ve just been unlucky with my customers!
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
This is really worth a read, and provides an answer to the question I was asked a week or so ago - why do I think Rees-Mogg is full of bullshit?
See also his shift from anti-Lords reform a few years ago to “let’s burn the House down” stance today.
It really isn't a good piece at all. It says nothing about Brexit or Brexiteers and everything about Massie and his own delusions and bigotry. One might as well recommend a piece entitled "Why all Europhiles are Communists and Traitors who pine for the days of the Soviet Union" It would be about as accurate analysis as this garbage.
Mr. Glenn, no surprise, but still contemptible. May should get off the damned fence.
If Labour had a leader who wasn't a wretch I'd probably be in a political No Man's Land right now. I'd still prefer that to having to vote blue because the red alternative is someone who can't be trusted in so many ways.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
The only one I know of is Nick Palmer, who was an IT Director before he was an MP. More politicians with a technical background would indeed be very useful.
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Why did a Tory MP yesterday suggest we share our UN Security Council seat with Canada and Australia?
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Why did a Tory MP yesterday suggest we share our UN Security Council seat with Canada and Australia?
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Why did a Tory MP yesterday suggest we share our UN Security Council seat with Canada and Australia?
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
Dunno, there's something to be said for keeping the upper levels of management busy to keep them from distracting the unlucky sleep-deprived techies who are trying to actually fix the thing.
Good point.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
That sounds to me like an excellent solution to any problem.
I can't help feeling that it would be better if the bosses of TSB were working flat-out to sort out the mess, rather than being hauled before a Select Committee to explain why they haven't yet sorted out the mess.
It's mostly working, I had one unsuccesful payment last week (Which I quickly redid). Anyway they're paying 5% on 1,500 (Effectively 3k since you can easily open a joint account) again so happy days.
Except I can't log on to create /switch to this type of account....:-(
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Why did a Tory MP yesterday suggest we share our UN Security Council seat with Canada and Australia?
This is really worth a read, and provides an answer to the question I was asked a week or so ago - why do I think Rees-Mogg is full of bullshit?
See also his shift from anti-Lords reform a few years ago to “let’s burn the House down” stance today.
It really isn't a good piece at all. It says nothing about Brexit or Brexiteers and everything about Massie and his own delusions and bigotry. One might as well recommend a piece entitled "Why all Europhiles are Communists and Traitors who pine for the days of the Soviet Union" It would be about as accurate analysis as this garbage.
Perhaps you didn’t read it, or perhaps you just failed to understand it.
He is talking about Rees Mogg and Brexiter rhetoric, not Brexit per se.
Or, do you go along with the new JRM line that our most positive future is to be Trump’s bitch?
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
The only one I know of is Nick Palmer, who was an IT Director before he was an MP. More politicians with a technical background would indeed be very useful.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
The only one I know of is Nick Palmer, who was an IT Director before he was an MP. More politicians with a technical background would indeed be very useful.
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
Why did a Tory MP yesterday suggest we share our UN Security Council seat with Canada and Australia?
This is really worth a read, and provides an answer to the question I was asked a week or so ago - why do I think Rees-Mogg is full of bullshit?
See also his shift from anti-Lords reform a few years ago to “let’s burn the House down” stance today.
It really isn't a good piece at all. It says nothing about Brexit or Brexiteers and everything about Massie and his own delusions and bigotry. One might as well recommend a piece entitled "Why all Europhiles are Communists and Traitors who pine for the days of the Soviet Union" It would be about as accurate analysis as this garbage.
Perhaps you didn’t read it, or perhaps you just failed to understand it.
He is talking about Rees Mogg and Brexiter rhetoric, not Brexit per se.
Or, do you go along with the new JRM line that our most positive future is to be Trump’s bitch?
I did read it and I did understand what he was doing and it was not just directed at Rees Mogg. Nor would it be a reasonable characterisation of his views anyway. It is you who have misunderstood it or rather have accepted it because it matches your own misguided preconceptions.
Now I am certainly not a Mogg fan as I dislike his religious views intensely and would not vote for him as PM. But this sort of idiotic characterisation which bears no relation to reality just shows how out of touch Massie and his ilk are.
It's not often that I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg on Brexit matters, but I do think he and his fellow true-believers are right that the mooted 'Customs Partnership' idea is bonkers. It would involve charging EU external tariffs at our borders for imports from outside the EU, and then refunding them in part or entirely if we wanted to charge lower tariffs for goods used in the UK. It would also mean following EU regulations for imports, unless there was some complex scheme for tracking where things went.
It seems to be a scheme which has virtually all of the disadvantages of a full customs union, but with an extra layer of massive administrative complication.
The non-customs union customs union idea IS bonkers. I'm pretty sure Olly Robbins who apparently is promoting it knows that, although it's possible Theresa May does genuinely believe in six impossible things before Brexit. Leaver suspicion of the motives of those promoting the idea is well founded, I suspect. Having said that, I think we will end up in a customs union. It's a question of when people face up to the inevitable compromise.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
At today's treasury Select Committee we heard from the TSB CEO that the IT problem eminates from the Middleware which is the software that sits between the customer account files and the various systems which deal with branches, customer computers and mobile devices.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
Mr. Fire, yet again a pro-Remain/pro-EU person raises the Empire and attributes that to the Leave side. The only people banging on about the Empire are Remainers who wish to paint the other side in a bad light. It's silly. You are a silly sausage.
I do sometimes think that there was a strain of Pro Europeanism in the Civil Service and in politics who saw joining the EEC as a way to replace the Empire. They thought we would naturally end up leading because we were so much better at it than Johnny foreigner.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
At today's treasury Select Committee we heard from the TSB CEO that the IT problem eminates from the Middleware which is the software that sits between the customer account files and the various systems which deal with branches, customer computers and mobile devices.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
Yuck. I'd hate to be involved in the meetings of the migration team, presently.....
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
At today's treasury Select Committee we heard from the TSB CEO that the IT problem eminates from the Middleware which is the software that sits between the customer account files and the various systems which deal with branches, customer computers and mobile devices.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
Yuck. I'd hate to be involved in the meetings of the migration team, presently.....
Surely migrating the systems of a major bank would be a stressful job even if it went to plan!
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
At today's treasury Select Committee we heard from the TSB CEO that the IT problem eminates from the Middleware which is the software that sits between the customer account files and the various systems which deal with branches, customer computers and mobile devices.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
Yuck. I'd hate to be involved in the meetings of the migration team, presently.....
Surely migrating the systems of a major bank would be a stressful job even if it went to plan!
Not just when migrating the systems. On a day to day basis when the ATM cashpoints go down or the online system goes down there is tremendous pressure on those responsible.
It's starting to feel as though Brexit will collapse before May runs out of long grass.
No kidding - it is simply mind boggling that they still have not got decisions on major aspects, and surely raises the chances of things collapsing, even if that is still not the most likely outcome.
Mr. Sandpit, sounds akin to the likes of May/Cooper when they bleat about some sort of magic filter or algorithm that will take all the badness away from the internet. Even as someone who has the technical aptitude of a potato, it's alarming how ignorant some politicians are about the most basic aspects of technology.
Indeed Mr Dancer.
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
At today's treasury Select Committee we heard from the TSB CEO that the IT problem eminates from the Middleware which is the software that sits between the customer account files and the various systems which deal with branches, customer computers and mobile devices.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
It’s almost always the ‘middleware’ interface layers between systems that cause the problems, as they can’t be bought off the shelf and are custom built for each implementation depending on the various systems in use. The IBM mainframe will be what runs the transactional database for the bank, the middleware will translate the modern database language from the web applications to the comparatively old database of the IBM back end.
The problem is most likely caused by their being insufficiently able to replicate the live ‘production’ system in the test environment, so the problems didn’t get noticed until the changes went into production. As they were replacing one of the systems, there could have been an issue with the migration process itself, leaving a database in a messed-up state that had to be recovered.
It's not often that I agree with Jacob Rees-Mogg on Brexit matters, but I do think he and his fellow true-believers are right that the mooted 'Customs Partnership' idea is bonkers. It would involve charging EU external tariffs at our borders for imports from outside the EU, and then refunding them in part or entirely if we wanted to charge lower tariffs for goods used in the UK. It would also mean following EU regulations for imports, unless there was some complex scheme for tracking where things went.
It seems to be a scheme which has virtually all of the disadvantages of a full customs union, but with an extra layer of massive administrative complication.
The non-customs union customs union idea IS bonkers. I'm pretty sure Olly Robbins who apparently is promoting it knows that, although it's possible Theresa May does genuinely believe in six impossible things before Brexit. Leaver suspicion of the motives of those promoting the idea is well founded, I suspect. Having said that, I think we will end up in a customs union. It's a question of when people face up to the inevitable compromise.
More inevitable is World Trade Organisation terms.
We should have started with WTO and negotiated with the EU from that position.
Just returned from hospital and my son in law and he is fine .
I want to thank so many of you have expressed your kind words and it raises the spirit that so many on here have a generosity of spirit
I have switched on Parliament channel and just witnessed the most extraordinary full on attack by Savid Javid against the labour front bench allowing members of the labour party to call him a 'coconut' or 'Uncle Tom'. He challenged Corbyn to stand up and denounce it and he remained in place. Diane Abbott stood up and muttered a few words.
It's starting to feel as though Brexit will collapse before May runs out of long grass.
No kidding - it is simply mind boggling that they still have not got decisions on major aspects, and surely raises the chances of things collapsing, even if that is still not the most likely outcome.
I think TM is running the time down to the HOC vote which will either confirm we leave the CU or remain in 'a' CU
Mr. kle4, ha, I wouldn't mind dropping Monaco but it won't happen.
Street circuits are convenient because there are a shitload of potential spectators right there already. They're mostly rubbish because they tend to be constricted and the corners are mostly right angles, which is terrible.
Comments
Next comes the realer living wage, the even realer living wage, and finally the wage rage that people aren't getting the honest, truly-to-God enhanced extra living wage with sugar, sprinkles and extra cream on top.
Quite. The minimum salary level now is the minimum wage, or less of course cash in hand down the building site.
Do you not see this??????
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/920182.stm
Ms Roche told the IPPR that since the early 1970s the number of people emigrating has outstripped those entering the UK.
Britain faces a demographic time-bomb, with a quarter of the population expected to be over the age of 65 by 2050, she said.
Other countries such as the US, Canada and Australia have used immigration as an economic tool, Ms Roche added.
"Blair et al of course did not possess half a brain."
With half a brain, he might have invested money in infrastructure for the areas where mass immigration was likely. Unless he really did want to rub their faces in the diversity.
It worked well, we voted Leave.
and if you don't understand how supply and demand work then maybe it's time you did.
If we'd had migration at the same rate as Australia the population would be over 100m.
Provisional Living Wage
Real Living Wage
Continuity Living Wage
Living Wage Defence Association
Living Wage Volunteer Force
(Time for a rest!)
But yes, I'm standing in Craven, North Yorkshire.
lots of posturing MPs trying to score points as Nicky Morgan tries to be Miss Whiplash
Taking away opportunities for British people on low and medium incomes to get better jobs overseas seems like a weird way to handle perceived loss of opportunities to those same people from foreign competition, but the British are already screwing those people with their "foreign spouses are a luxury lifestyle choice" policy, so maybe it's what the voters want.
That Australia ?
I want to thank so many of you have expressed your kind words and it raises the spirit that so many on here have a generosity of spirit
I have switched on Parliament channel and just witnessed the most extraordinary full on attack by Savid Javid against the labour front bench allowing members of the labour party to call him a 'coconut' or 'Uncle Tom'. He challenged Corbyn to stand up and denounce it and he remained in place. Diane Abbott stood up and muttered a few words.
So TSB IT has flopped - not good , but will anyone be questioning ministers on how their NHS IT flop led to 270 premature deaths ? I suspect not.
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/991677756105744387
However, I do think policy should be simple to understand and easy to inplement. The whole problem with immigration, politically, is that’s a whole mountain of myth has built up around it. Light is a great disinfectant, let’s be open and honest about it.
As to your stuff about unfair on the regions, I really don’t get it. Immigrants need jobs. We need immigrants to have jobs. They should simply go where the work is.
THREE WEEKS OLD should be in big shouty capitals
"We had a veto on expansion, we unilaterally chose to waive transition measures, and the bulk of inward migration was not from the EU anyway...
If we'd had migration at the same rate as Australia the population would be over 100m"
Yes we had a veto. Blair threw it away (and then threw more away with Lisbon despite promising a say). 23/6/16 was the first time we'd had a specific chance to comment on that decision. So amongst other things we voted to "unwaiver" so to speak. It was the most obvious symbol of the control and decision making we had carelessly given way.
Australia has a continent to populate as you are well aware. Our needs in terms of immigration are not theirs. They may well wish to encourage lots of pineapple propagation specialists for their pizza industry (to just pluck one example out of thin air), for which our chilly climes would have little need.
The point is, whom and how many they let in is under the democratic control of the Australian people, not carelessly farmed out without thinking about it (remember the "15K will come" fiasco?). Lucky country.
It's worse than that, though: TSB have called in lawyers to investigate what went wrong. God only knows why they think lawyers would have the faintest clue about this.
See also his shift from anti-Lords reform a few years ago to “let’s burn the House down” stance today.
The toughest management meetings to be heard in were always the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem'.
The easiest ones in which to get a hearing were when the problem had manifested and suddenly management wants a solution.
Of course, the easiest solution would have been to have listened to the 'this is a problem/is going to be a problem' meeting...
F1: wants a 10 year deal for a Miami street race:
https://twitter.com/A_S12/status/991683092443291649
No overdraft charges for March / April are a good start - I just wish I had maxed out my account to take advantage ;-)
I wonder if there are any IT consultant politicians? If so, maybe they should be given a job at the HO....
https://twitter.com/peston/status/991693181162065920?s=21
If Labour had a leader who wasn't a wretch I'd probably be in a political No Man's Land right now. I'd still prefer that to having to vote blue because the red alternative is someone who can't be trusted in so many ways.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-accuse-founder-of-pro-brexit-legatum-institute-of-being-russian-agent-0wlwm5jfx
A new MP too, using parliamentary privilege to name someone. Some of the old ones never get around to using it.
Mr. Glenn, idiocy. Those advocating the voluntary and needless surrender of authority and power are turnips.
He is talking about Rees Mogg and Brexiter rhetoric, not Brexit per se.
Or, do you go along with the new JRM line that our most positive future is to be Trump’s bitch?
Now I am certainly not a Mogg fan as I dislike his religious views intensely and would not vote for him as PM. But this sort of idiotic characterisation which bears no relation to reality just shows how out of touch Massie and his ilk are.
If Mr Palmer is familiar with the middleware on IBM mainframes then perhaps he should offer his services to TSB.
Not just when migrating the systems. On a day to day basis when the ATM cashpoints go down or the online system goes down there is tremendous pressure on those responsible.
IT systems can have unknown unknowns.
The problem is most likely caused by their being insufficiently able to replicate the live ‘production’ system in the test environment, so the problems didn’t get noticed until the changes went into production. As they were replacing one of the systems, there could have been an issue with the migration process itself, leaving a database in a messed-up state that had to be recovered.
Pleased I’m not in their IT team this week!
Bake is an exciting venue, so the way forward seems clear - drop Monaco, and take on Miami if it is a decent street circuit proposed.
We should have started with WTO and negotiated with the EU from that position.
Telegraph account of the clash:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/02/sajid-javid-challenges-jeremy-corbyn-condemn-hard-left-activists/
Street circuits are convenient because there are a shitload of potential spectators right there already. They're mostly rubbish because they tend to be constricted and the corners are mostly right angles, which is terrible.